Series 35: Athletics at Blue Jays
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Andy007
Well-known member
cabber24 said:
But he hasn't really been that solid (especially compared to the ridiculous amount of praise the media heaps upon him). He regularly misreads and takes bad routes to balls hence the non-stop diving. He's made some remarkable plays, but he's botched quite a few routine ones as well. He's like a slightly better Rajai Davis (defensively speaking).
Andy007
Well-known member
Joe S. said:
No, no, you misunderstand, I'm comparing both systems to pre-deadline this year, before the Jays gave up a lot of prospects. Comparing them now wouldn't matter, since Toronto gave up so much and wouldn't be ranked that high anymore. Yankees definitely have a better system now but even pre-deadline I'd say both systems were close.
But really, I don't think this is a matter of what you "believe." You might want to look up some actual facts.
Andy007
Well-known member
Just looked it up: Baseball Prospectus had Jays 3rd in AL and Yankees 4th. Bleacher Report had Jays 14 overall and Yankees 15th (this was from early June this year). Worst I have seen is Yankees ranked 18th overall (from March this year). Nothing special but certainly not a barren system.
Andy007
Well-known member
Joe S. said:
No problem I was seriously just curious; I had thought NY had been pretty strong in drafting for a bit.
I do agree that the Yanks might offer something ridiculous for Price that Toronto can't/won't match. He would be a huge piece in Toronto, I'd love to see Tor scoop him up long-term regardless of cost.
Kin
Active member
Joe S. said:
One of the MLB channel analysts, I forget which but not an ex-player, was one of the dissenting voices when everyone else was heaping praise on the Jays moves for two reasons. One, he said that he thought the Jays were too far back for this to be the right time to go all in and two that none of the moves were especially good value moves, AA didn't really get any good deals, the Jays were just willing to part with a number and level of prospects that other teams weren't.
That's probably true about the Yankees. They have some very good prospects(Luis Severino and Aaron Judge at the top of the list) that were rumoured to be in just about every team's asking price for their top players but the Yankees held off.
Time will tell which approach looks better but I think part of the Yankee's hesitance is what we're seeing in their funk now. They had to know that so much of their offense coming from a 35 year old 1B and 40 year old DH wasn't all that sustainable and so they really couldn't trade away their MLB-ready prospects the way the Jays could.
Kin
Active member
Kind of interesting:
According to bWAR, Kevin Pillar actually grades out as the second most valuable Blue Jay this year.
Josh Donaldson 6.2
Kevin Pillar 3.3
Jose Bautista 2.9
Russell Martin 2.7
Devon Travis 2.5
Most of that comes from his defense, he's over 2 wins there, and fWAR doesn't have him anywhere near as high but he's certainly grading out pretty highly in certain defensive metrics.
According to bWAR, Kevin Pillar actually grades out as the second most valuable Blue Jay this year.
Josh Donaldson 6.2
Kevin Pillar 3.3
Jose Bautista 2.9
Russell Martin 2.7
Devon Travis 2.5
Most of that comes from his defense, he's over 2 wins there, and fWAR doesn't have him anywhere near as high but he's certainly grading out pretty highly in certain defensive metrics.
Andy007
Well-known member
Nik the Trik said:
Yea he's an interesting case. He's made some outstanding defensive plays and some outstandingly awful ones. Today was a great example. He dove for a ball we was nowhere near and turned a single into a triple, allowing a run from 1st to score. I've seen him do that 3 times this year. I'm not sure how WAR would calculate a play like that but I don't imagine it affects his WAR as negatively (if, at all) as it should. But it also goes to show how fickle that stat is. Pillar at 3.3 is a joke.
Kin
Active member
Andy007 said:
But I think that just shows where WAR's value is and why the sort of eyeballing you're talking about is ineffective. I've seen Mike Trout and Adam Jones do stupid things that cost their teams runs in Center Field too. So the issue isn't "Does Kevin Pillar occasionally make mistakes in the field" but rather "How often does he make them relative to other outfielders".
His ranking where he does by dWAR just indicates that either it's not all that often or that the exceptional plays he makes counterbalances that pretty effectively, either of which would line up with my own interpretation of his defensive play this year.
Heroic Shrimp
Active member
TML fan said:
Not according to Edwin Starr.
