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2026-27 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion | Official: Sundin & Chayka to lead front office

i see nothing wrong with going for it this year. We don't have a draft pick in either of the next two seasons. There is no benefit of being truly bad.

Matthews is also somewhat damaged goods with down seasons under Bérubé and coming off a knee injury. I don't really think his value is at its best if the Leafs tried to move him right now. If there is a whiff that he won't stay, absolutely trade him well before next years trade deadline but now isn't the time to do that.

Everything about this team is negative right now in terms of asset management. Nylander is a one dimensional player who doesn't listen to the coach. Matthews is broken. Rielly is just bad. Stolarz is injured. Tanev is old and broken. Half a season can completely reframe a lot of these guys if they look better even if the results aren't there/aren't good enough to be a playoff team.

Obviously the Atlantic is a joke division. Montreal is set to be a powerhouse for the next decade. Tampa keeps having voodoo to stay relevant. Buffalo has the talent to stay dominant. Unfortunately worshipping a pedophile doesn't make you a bad hockey player so Florida likely rebounds (with what goaltending). No one wants to play for Ottawa so I'm having a hard time seeing how they are better with the 9OA next year. Detroit will be worse. Not sure how I feel on Boston because they don't seem to be that great on paper but they definitely aren't bad.

The Leads might be a high 90s point team. They might finish well into the top 15 in the league. They still might miss the playoffs.

At least if that happens the team will be entertaining and it should mean some of our assets are more valuable. We would give up a middle of the road pick this year. Could do a harder sell off at the deadline/next offseason and build around the young core players
 
cw said:
It varies with the circumstances.
For Matthews, you would probably get more if he's able to demonstrate he is free of health issues than you would right now
For Rielly, you would probably get more if he's able to demonstrate the change in coach & system gets him back to closer to where he was before Berube showed up.
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I think you make 2 good points on why they should pause on the rebuild, at least for now.
 
Frank E said:
I thought Tre did some good things as well, he inherited the Marner impending departure sure, no winning that situation...but he signed Tanev and McCabe to reasonable deals. OEL too. I though the Dakota Joshua was a good gamble...same with Maccelli and Stecher. He went all in on Carlo, and because Carlo didn't play well, and Minten did, that deal will haunt him.

I don't thing he hamstrung the team in terms of terrible contracts.
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My thought on this is that they got Carlo confused with McAvoy. Another Jeff Finger situation.
 
dappleganger said:
My thought on this is that they got Carlo confused with McAvoy. Another Jeff Finger situation.
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Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that when Minten was a Leaf, the scouting reports/writeups etc. were all somewhat tepid- like he was seen as a smart, strong player but with limited upside and predicted to be a bottom-six centre. And Carlo was a 28-year old, potential top-4 RHD with size who could play nearly 20 minutes a night and had an additional 2 years on his contract. So thinking you're giving away a bottom-six centre prospect and what you assume would be a mid-late 1st round pick for Carlo and 3 potential post-season runs with him (not to mention at 3.5M after Boston's 15% Cap retention) at the time, doesn't seem that crazy of a deal to me.

Obviously it didn't work out, and the deal looks awful in hindsight, but to Frank's point, I feel like there is a bit of hyberbole regarding some of Treliving's moves.
 
bustaheims said:
McAvoy would have cost a lot more. Tre knew who he was trading for, he just made a bad trade.
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They probably should have paid it.
Andy007 said:
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that when Minten was a Leaf, the scouting reports/writeups etc. were all somewhat tepid- like he was seen as a smart, strong player but with limited upside and predicted to be a bottom-six centre. And Carlo was a 28-year old, potential top-4 RHD with size who could play nearly 20 minutes a night and had an additional 2 years on his contract. So thinking you're giving away a bottom-six centre prospect and what you assume would be a mid-late 1st round pick for Carlo and 3 potential post-season runs with him (not to mention at 3.5M after Boston's 15% Cap retention) at the time, doesn't seem that crazy of a deal to me.

Obviously it didn't work out, and the deal looks awful in hindsight, but to Frank's point, I feel like there is a bit of hyberbole regarding some of Treliving's moves.
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At the time I didn't think too much of the trade, other than the Leafs needed a RH D, I thought Minten and a 1st was a bit much, and Carlo was a name I knew from previous post-seasons. I didn't know he only had 9 points at the time of the trade and wasn't very good at playing defence. The latter became more apparent in the Florida series.

It's seems to me the thought process was "Big! Good!" when it should have been "Is he good at playing defence?"

They needed a d man I just wish they would have got someone better.
 
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cw said:
I want them to win a Cup. Nothing less. Like other Leafs fans, I'm not getting any younger.

If this effort to hang on to Matthews fails, as it probably will, I fear the rebuild starts two years later ... so we're waiting two more years before a shot at the promised land than if we got underway now. I do not think it is unfair to raise my hand to say "I have timing concerns with this direction"
Leafs fans won't notice too much because they'll probably make the playoffs ... until it is time for Matthews to sign on the dotted line in a year from now.

With MLSE bucks, they can roll the roster over and accrue talent assets as they do.
Trade an asset.
Buy a replacement UFA.
Give the replacement UFA excess ice time to pad his stats and then flip him for young prospects/picks.
Maybe they can eat some salary retention during the rebuild.
Can't do that as easily when you're trying to make the playoffs and trying to appear like a true contender so you can hang onto Matthews.

Having said that, they have already made up their minds. They're retooling. So I will do my best to work that problem.

The Marlies 15th place in the regular season standings is the lowest of any championship team in NHL and AHL history.
Maybe we can cling to that for hope!!
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I am going to choose to believe that the reason the Leafs are retooling is that they believe Matthews will stay. If he said he wanted out, the rebuild would have started already.

I don't really believe Matthews has it in him to be as integral as we need him to be to win a championship. I wouldn't have been upset if he stated he wanted out and gave the Leafs time to figure out an exit that aligned with a rebuild.
 
cabber24 said:
I am going to choose to believe that the reason the Leafs are retooling is that they believe Matthews will stay. If he said he wanted out, the rebuild would have started already.

I don't really believe Matthews has it in him to be as integral as we need him to be to win a championship. I wouldn't have been upset if he stated he wanted out and gave the Leafs time to figure out an exit that aligned with a rebuild.
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Start playing Matthews in the offensive zone.
 
dappleganger said:
They probably should have paid it.
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By much more, I basically mean a huge overpayment, because Boston was moving McAvoy without being blown away with an offer. Knies would likely have to have been included. One of Cowan and Danford, too. It would have been blowing up the future. Also, IIRC, McAvoy was injured at the time, so, it would have been shipping out assets to not get a player for a playoff run.
 
bustaheims said:
By much more, I basically mean a huge overpayment, because Boston was moving McAvoy without being blown away with an offer. Knies would likely have to have been included. One of Cowan and Danford, too. It would have been blowing up the future. Also, IIRC, McAvoy was injured at the time, so, it would have been shipping out assets to not get a player for a playoff run.
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I was thinking more like 2026 1st rd (top five protected), 2027 1st rd (top 10 protected), Fraser Minten, and Nikita Grebenkin. 😃
 
Andy007 said:
Maybe I'm mis-remembering, but I seem to recall that when Minten was a Leaf, the scouting reports/writeups etc. were all somewhat tepid- like he was seen as a smart, strong player but with limited upside and predicted to be a bottom-six centre. And Carlo was a 28-year old, potential top-4 RHD with size who could play nearly 20 minutes a night and had an additional 2 years on his contract. So thinking you're giving away a bottom-six centre prospect and what you assume would be a mid-late 1st round pick for Carlo and 3 potential post-season runs with him (not to mention at 3.5M after Boston's 15% Cap retention) at the time, doesn't seem that crazy of a deal to me.

Obviously it didn't work out, and the deal looks awful in hindsight, but to Frank's point, I feel like there is a bit of hyberbole regarding some of Treliving's moves.
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I sleep significantly better at night knowing that we aren't giving Boston our pick this year. If that fell into the 6-10 range, where this years draft is still very strong, that would have been catastrophic. Obviously the deal is a giant bust regardless for us considering Carlo's play, but I'm still not all that sold that Minten is going to haunt us and the future 1st shouldn't *cross fingers* be in the top-10 range again.
 
Bullfrog said:
Just speaking for myself: I don't mind some of the 1st round losses because some of those teams and series were entertaining. The regular seasons were fun, and I got to see some amazing talent, including with Marner.

Hockey's a sport, and it's entertainment. I'm totally cool with those who live and die based on the team's success, but it's just not that important to me.
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I get that, and I think most of us were ok with some first round losses, but my greater point is just because a team isn't this years' Hurricanes (or whatever team went on to win) doesn't mean you should necessarily be ok with or expect first round exits every year and not try to be competitive.
 
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L K said:
i see nothing wrong with going for it this year. We don't have a draft pick in either of the next two seasons. There is no benefit of being truly bad.

Matthews is also somewhat damaged goods with down seasons under Bérubé and coming off a knee injury. I don't really think his value is at its best if the Leafs tried to move him right now. If there is a whiff that he won't stay, absolutely trade him well before next years trade deadline but now isn't the time to do that.

Everything about this team is negative right now in terms of asset management. Nylander is a one dimensional player who doesn't listen to the coach. Matthews is broken. Rielly is just bad. Stolarz is injured. Tanev is old and broken. Half a season can completely reframe a lot of these guys if they look better even if the results aren't there/aren't good enough to be a playoff team.

Obviously the Atlantic is a joke division. Montreal is set to be a powerhouse for the next decade. Tampa keeps having voodoo to stay relevant. Buffalo has the talent to stay dominant. Unfortunately worshipping a pedophile doesn't make you a bad hockey player so Florida likely rebounds (with what goaltending). No one wants to play for Ottawa so I'm having a hard time seeing how they are better with the 9OA next year. Detroit will be worse. Not sure how I feel on Boston because they don't seem to be that great on paper but they definitely aren't bad.

The Leads might be a high 90s point team. They might finish well into the top 15 in the league. They still might miss the playoffs.

At least if that happens the team will be entertaining and it should mean some of our assets are more valuable. We would give up a middle of the road pick this year. Could do a harder sell off at the deadline/next offseason and build around the young core players
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That's the other thing. Why sell Matthews now when he's had two of his worst seasons? Selling low on Matthews is the absolute last thing that we should be doing. Obviously Matthews needs to be up front and open with him, but you don't move him without his say so, and he can stay put regardless of outcome. So ultimately either way, the rebuild is based on what Matthews wants. There's a world in which rebuilding has him leaving, but there's also a world in retooling has him signing another contract. As long as the Leafs have a reasonable feel on that and Matthews is willing to be frank with the team, then I'm fine with how they're handling it for now, and they obviously need to pivot if Matthews does tell them he wants out.
 
bustaheims said:
Don't love the idea of Bobrovsky, especially considering the contract he's rumoured to be asking for. I get the thinking behind a change in net, but a 38 y/o goalie coming off a bad year looking for a 6 year deal? That's a no from me, dawg.
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no-randy-jackson.gif
 
Bender said:
I think people are forgetting just how many drafted and developed players were actually on Carolina and Vegas. 6 for Carolina and 2 for Vegas, and only 3 from the expansion draft. Florida had Barkov, Ekblad and Lundell - that's it.

I get the rebuild angle, and I do want to get assets for players who have no intention of staying long term, but it's premature to do it right now, but nobody is saying hang on to them at all costs and walk them to free agency. It's also silly to not pursue free agents considering they can also at some point be turned into assets after acquiring them for free. I don't see why we can't make some intelligent trades and see where we are come September. If they have to pivot I think they are smart enough to know and they will - that's just my hope with a front office not afraid to make moves.

I also don't have much interest in selling Auston for what Brady got the Sens right now and would want better than a bunch of lottery tickets.
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Bender said:
That's the other thing. Why sell Matthews now when he's had two of his worst seasons? Selling low on Matthews is the absolute last thing that we should be doing. Obviously Matthews needs to be up front and open with him, but you don't move him without his say so, and he can stay put regardless of outcome. So ultimately either way, the rebuild is based on what Matthews wants. There's a world in which rebuilding has him leaving, but there's also a world in retooling has him signing another contract. As long as the Leafs have a reasonable feel on that and Matthews is willing to be frank with the team, then I'm fine with how they're handling it for now, and they obviously need to pivot if Matthews does tell them he wants out.
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That’s what boggles my mind. Matthews is one of the best players the franchise has ever had. Until two years ago, he was a top 5 player in the world. You can bottom out and be in the draft lottery for a couple decades and not get a player as good. Not even investigating whether a big part of the problem over the last 2 seasons was the coach seems silly to me. I’m happy Matthews isn’t giving up on the Leafs as quickly as some of the team’s fans.
 
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