2025-26 Toronto Maple Leafs General Discussion
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Arn
Well-known member
I wasn’t sure which way the tie breakers fell.
That Rangers game was a real sickener. Basically a 4 point swing there.
Redleaf
Well-known member
Maple Leafs interviewing Mats Sundin for hockey department job
Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has learned that ownership will meet with the Maple Leafs' all-time leading scorer, Mats Sundin, as soon as Friday about a role in the hockey department.
There are only 2 players in NHL history with 50 or more playoff games that have a higher playoff ppg than McDavid or Draisaitl. You might have heard of them: Gretzky & Lemieux. That is quite a yardstick you have there. And they couldn't beat the Florida Panthers either.
The first time I recall the term shadow in hockey was against Bobby Hull. 15 years, mostly in a 6 team league and on a good team with a number of Hall of Famers. When they won their one and only cup, Makita led in goal scoring and Pilote in points. One of the greatest of his era arguably never "put his team entirely on his back" to a Cup - to win 2 rounds - though he had great playoff stats.
Jon Cooper remarked about the Leafs (paraphrased) "you put your best players on their core 4 to negate them and then let our bottom 6 beat their inferior bottom 6". He applied that against most opponents because he felt he had the best 3rd line in hockey (very roughly stated)
About 1/3 of Conn Smythe winners are goalies. Very difficult to get very far in the playoffs without a good goalie. Stats are probably not the best reference there as Vasilevskiy and Hellebuyck have the worst playoff GAA since 2022-23 among goalies who played 8+ playoff games.
dappleganger
Well-known member
The issue isn't the Florida Panthers over the last 10 years and you know that. The point I'm making is not one of these players carried the team on their back throughout 10 years to win a round or two, and I think the point still stands. It's one thing to get to the finals and a whole other thing to win two rounds in 10 years. You'd think with that much talent to go around someone would rise up like Mikita, but nobody did.
If we want to move off of the Oilers then we can go Colorado who had mediocre goaltending when they won with Kuemper sporting a .902. Also we are completely glossing over the fact that Freddy had some excellent playoff numbers in at least two of the four playoff runs he had here at .922 and .936. Even Campbell had a .934. They couldn't win a round with those numbers?
And as mentioned before, the Core 4 are the highest paid players. It's a roster construction issue when you don't have enough money left over to pay for decent goaltenders and bottom six players etc - I agree with you there, and they should've moved off one of them to better balance the lineup. But the point still stands, and you're consistently white washing it. None of the core 4 ever lived up to their playoff performances compared to their regular season success basically ever even in terms of raw point totals, to a point where they won as many rounds as the Leafs of the much derided 1980s. If you want to say that's all goaltending's fault, be my guest, but it's just not reality when you win two rounds in 10 years and I refuse to accept this revisionist history that it all came down to goaltending.
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Guru Tugginmypuddah
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Maple Leafs interviewing Mats Sundin for hockey department job
Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman has learned that ownership will meet with the Maple Leafs' all-time leading scorer, Mats Sundin, as soon as Friday about a role in the hockey department.www.sportsnet.ca
***SWOONS***
Please let this happen.
Bill_Berg
Well-known member
They are big boys and if you fire him now, you are taking that choice away from the new guy.
I think for me it's about doings things in the proper order and having the right person making the decision. Pelley hires the President, President hires a GM, GM hires a coach. It also goes that way for firings. I don't think Pelley should ever really get a say in who the coach of the team is (even if he happens to be right), and that's who would really be making that decision if Berube was fired before a permanent GM is in place.
L K
Well-known member
The thing for me is what does Bérubé bring that should make anyone think he's fit to right the ship.
The possession numbers are atrocious. The scoring chances are wildly against us. Actual goal scoring relative to goals against is poor. We aren't a physical team. We aren't a fast team. We aren't a gritty defensive team.
So the play style is just poor start to finish. So maybe it's his ability to make players accountable.
When was the last time he took Nylander to task for his lackluster play. When did Domi face consequences for atrocious play. When was Rielly help accountable for constant fundamental defensive mistakes. Chief was great at giving Quillan the bench treatment for a mistake. He didn't hold anyone accountable.
Is there harm in firing him in July instead...not technically, but by not firing him, the organization is telling me there is a chance that they won't. I'm not sticking around for the 2027 Leafs if Bérubé is the coach. It will be an easy decision for me to spend my money on something other than Leafs tickets if the organization is so blatantly cheap in bringing him back.
Old school scouting should tell you Berube is a bad fit. Analytics absolutely say he's a bad fit. Making decisions that fly in the face of reality is the sign of an organization that either doesn't know what it is doing or one that acting like a mid tier franchise and not the most profitable one in the league.
The possession numbers are atrocious. The scoring chances are wildly against us. Actual goal scoring relative to goals against is poor. We aren't a physical team. We aren't a fast team. We aren't a gritty defensive team.
So the play style is just poor start to finish. So maybe it's his ability to make players accountable.
When was the last time he took Nylander to task for his lackluster play. When did Domi face consequences for atrocious play. When was Rielly help accountable for constant fundamental defensive mistakes. Chief was great at giving Quillan the bench treatment for a mistake. He didn't hold anyone accountable.
Is there harm in firing him in July instead...not technically, but by not firing him, the organization is telling me there is a chance that they won't. I'm not sticking around for the 2027 Leafs if Bérubé is the coach. It will be an easy decision for me to spend my money on something other than Leafs tickets if the organization is so blatantly cheap in bringing him back.
Old school scouting should tell you Berube is a bad fit. Analytics absolutely say he's a bad fit. Making decisions that fly in the face of reality is the sign of an organization that either doesn't know what it is doing or one that acting like a mid tier franchise and not the most profitable one in the league.
dappleganger
Well-known member
mr grieves
Well-known member
I would think, when ownership closes in on a POHO, they'll just ask: want the decks cleared when you're announced or do you want to do it? POHO can ask the GM the same. It'll be the new management's choice ultimately.
Arn
Well-known member
To me the thing is, as a coach you might have your “style” or systems or way of playing.
Ok you might need certain players to play that and I’m not sure the recently deposed GM ever really actually managed to get the right players.
But then as a coach you adjust to what you have and you make what you have work. You don’t try and make players who can’t (or won’t, I guess) just fit the system no matter what.
I’m not saying you completely ditch your style or your system. But you tweak and adjust to make what you have available make the best version of it.
The goalies kind of papered over those issues last year by stealing way more wins than they probably deserved too.
I can’t imagine the new higher up leadership is going to want anything like the “style” we’ve played last 2 years, so if he couldn’t mould or adapt when he had the chance to do what he wanted, I can’t see them keeping him or him being able to mould a totally different style of team.