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Oilers @ Leafs - Dec. 13th, 7:00pm - SN

OldTimeHockey said:
Do I want Matthews on my team?? Of course. Do I think he's a leader. Not in the least.

So I guess my point is that if Matthews is the closest thing to Gilmour, we're in trouble. Because I don't consider him remotely the same type of player. Gilmour bled for every team he played for. Matthews, as talented as he is, simply does not bring that attitude to the rink.
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I absolutely agree with your first statement.

But personally, I never thought Matthews skill set matches gilmour from a talent perspective, if anything Marner is the closest I've seen as a match talent wise.

As a leader though, you are correct, neither comes close.

My favourite all time player is Sundin, but I was nuts for Gilmour during those runs. But since those 2 eras, I have not seen a leafs player that rose to the occasion. Not even 1 fluke a la McCauley playoff run.

No Wendel, no Gilmour, no andreychuk, no Sundin, no Thomas, no tucker, no mogilny, no Roberts... How can they not had just one, just one player that can have a monster playoff. It's just crazy. I guess the closest is Nylander but he's not really doing more than what he does in the regular season.

Anyway I feel like I'm just ranting now.
 
OldTimeHockey said:
I'm not taking away from Matthews. Gap may not be the right word if we're looking at talent. But I'd take Gilmour leading this team any day of the week over Auston Matthews. Do I want Matthews on my team?? Of course. Do I think he's a leader. Not in the least.

So I guess my point is that if Matthews is the closest thing to Gilmour, we're in trouble. Because I don't consider him remotely the same type of player. Gilmour bled for every team he played for. Matthews, as talented as he is, simply does not bring that attitude to the rink.
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There seems to be a bit of a trend in hockey these days of just making your "best" player captain when often someone who isn't the best player might have more of the traits you want in a leader other than just being really, really, really good at hockey.

Looking at the Leafs roster, it's actually quite difficult to pick out a captain. Tavares as an elder statesman, proper pro who leads by example in terms of preparation and all that. He probably shouldn't have lost thee role. In fact, his grace in how he reacted when he did probably shows why he should have kept the role.

Tanev would be the kind of character I'd like as a captain, but obviously he's older, and potentially getting into going to miss a lot of time to injuries stage of his career and wouldn't be a longer term option.

If you were looking a "long term" option, I'd be intrigued by Knies potential to do it.

Actually looking at the roster from that point of view might suggest why the Leafs are where they are. It's a "weak" roster overall in terms of character/grittiness.
 
Joe S. said:
I absolutely agree with your first statement.

But personally, I never thought Matthews skill set matches gilmour from a talent perspective, if anything Marner is the closest I've seen as a match talent wise.

As a leader though, you are correct, neither comes close.

My favourite all time player is Sundin, but I was nuts for Gilmour during those runs. But since those 2 eras, I have not seen a leafs player that rose to the occasion. Not even 1 fluke a la McCauley playoff run.

No Wendel, no Gilmour, no andreychuk, no Sundin, no Thomas, no tucker, no mogilny, no Roberts... How can they not had just one, just one player that can have a monster playoff. It's just crazy. I guess the closest is Nylander but he's not really doing more than what he does in the regular season.

Anyway I feel like I'm just ranting now.
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I replied to OTH's post before I saw this one. I think we maybe agree and are surmising similar things.

Interestingly some of the best "characters" willing to put the team on their back of late have been goalies - thinking of CuJo and Belfour.

I agree fully on your point about the skaters.
 
bustaheims said:
I point to getting body slammed by McAvoy in the playoffs that year. Could be a combination of the two.
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Add in the Benn crosscheck in 2022. Anyone that has suffered with back issues knows it started with one incident. I've had back problems for over 40 years and I can pin point exactly when it first happened. What that initial injury causes is a weak spot that is vulnerable. So while you may feel your back is fine and you function normally, whats happening is you're not functioning normally because everything else tries to help compensate for that weak spot.
Think of it as having a bad knee. Your body, other leg, whatever will compensate for you to try and walk normally all the while the "good" parts are getting damaged trying to compensate because they're not operating "normally". The balance/workload is thrown out of whack. If you don't or can't fix that bad knee, there's a very good chance the good part is going to need to be repaired as well. If Matthews can't get this fixed with surgery it will be something he'll have to deal with the rest of his career.

Matthews didn't become lazy and not care. It's been pointed out here that many of his stats have gone away. His hits went way down starting last year, when he got hurt in training camp. He was 4th in the league in TkAs from 2016-20 to the end of the 23/24 season.(3/60mins). He was 3rd in the league with 85 in 23/24. He was tied for 88th last year with 29...29! Less then half his usual production and he's down even more this season. He's clearly injured. Whether he has wrist issues to go with his back issues, who knows?
 
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