Game 36: TOR @ FLA

[bustaheims]

So who do we blame for not even trying to play him on the PK?

Darryl Boyce, for not showing himself to be good enough defensively to warrant ice time on the PK.

 

[Zee]

So who do we blame for not even trying to play him on the PK?

Lance Hornby and Mike in Buf...

All kidding aside Boyce hasn't really been used in that role in the nhl so I'm not concerned that he wasn't used, just continuing to rip on media who suggested he was capable of filling in for Dupuis on the pk.

When your team is at 73% PK "efficiency" I'm pretty sure ANY NHL player should be capable of playing with that unit. If he's good enough for the NHL he should be good enough to learn what to do on the PK. Why not try him out? 

 

[Tigger]

So who do we blame for not even trying to play him on the PK?

Lance Hornby and Mike in Buf...

All kidding aside Boyce hasn't really been used in that role in the nhl so I'm not concerned that he wasn't used, just continuing to rip on media who suggested he was capable of filling in for Dupuis on the pk.

When your team is at 73% PK "efficiency" I'm pretty sure ANY NHL player should be capable of playing with that unit. If he's good enough for the NHL he should be good enough to learn what to do on the PK. Why not try him out?

There's probably a reason Boyce doesn't perform that task, I'd like to know if he did in the AHL but just because the pk is bad is no reason to just throw spaghetti at the wall, no need to make it worse...

This takes me back to whether or not the skill or ability of the players is really at question or not, especially in comparison to the pp ( not the same, I know ) but isn't it considered a skill to be able to kill penalties? I'm really not sure what's wrong. Going back to what Quinn mentioned about positioning seems like a good start.

I'm not sure the real problem is the forwards on the pk though, fwiw. Looking at the best pk going it has Tallinder and Volchenkov on the back end but it also has a number of talented forwards, Parise and Elias.

It's a toughie to figure, that's for sure.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

You can kind of draw a straight line from the last time the Leafs had great goaltending, to the last time the PK was decent (and even then it wasn't always great).

02-03: 3rd (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.26 GAA, .922 SV%
03-04: 19th (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.13 GAA, .918 SV%

05-06: 24th (Quinn) - Belfour: 3.29 GAA, .892 SV%
06-07: 27th (Maurice) - Raycroft: 2.99 GAA .894 SV% (37 wins)
07-08: 29th (Maurice) - Toskala: 2.74 GAA, .904 SV%


Between 3 coaches, a lockout, a different style of NHL - 02-03 is the only season in the last decade a Toronto team has had a PK finish above 16th best in the league (01-02 was 16th).

True, there is a strong correlation between great goaltending and PK success, but it's not mandatory to have a good goaltender in order to kill penalties. Looking at the PK stats of teams around the league, you have teams with very good PK results - take NJ for example - who don't exactly have a star duo in net. You also have teams like TB and NYI, with tandems that look pretty lousy, that still manage to maintain a middle-of-the-road PK%.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, that a lack of good goaltending is a valid reason for why they're sitting where they are, but at the same time, to me the scope of this problem goes way beyond goaltending.

I thought it was crazy that in a decade, with 3 different coaches, and multiple different lineups, we've only had one season with an above league-average PK.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

All kidding aside Boyce hasn't really been used in that role in the nhl so I'm not concerned that he wasn't used, just continuing to rip on media who suggested he was capable of filling in for Dupuis on the pk.

It was hardly just the media who made that suggestion.

 

[nutman]

Other then Riemer's baaaad game, I think Schenn played a very bad game.we may need to start calling him the lazy give away king, he is showing this a lot, and maybe he needs to be reassesed.

 

[Zee]

Other then Riemer's baaaad game, I think Schenn played a very bad game.we may need to start calling him the lazy give away king, he is showing this a lot, and maybe he needs to be reassesed.

Bench him, might wake him up.

 

[nutman]

Other then Riemer's baaaad game, I think Schenn played a very bad game.we may need to start calling him the lazy give away king, he is showing this a lot, and maybe he needs to be reassesed.

Bench him, might wake him up.

I would in a heart beat, he is much better then he has played.

 

[Tigger]

All kidding aside Boyce hasn't really been used in that role in the nhl so I'm not concerned that he wasn't used, just continuing to rip on media who suggested he was capable of filling in for Dupuis on the pk.

It was hardly just the media who made that suggestion.

Was it herd mentality or something else?

 

[Jalili]

to me the scope of this problem goes way beyond goaltending.

What do you think that is?

Bad coaching and players who aren't able to execute. Sub-par goaltending does magnify these issues.

 

[Jalili]

The PK in the last four seasons: 30th/28th/30th/30th overall

In that time the entire roster has been overhauled, as well as a good chunk of the coaching staff minus Wilson. So to me, it's  a question of whether you blame Wilson directly, or the guy who is rewarding him for these unacceptable results.

You can kind of draw a straight line from the last time the Leafs had great goaltending, to the last time the PK was decent (and even then it wasn't always great).

02-03: 3rd (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.26 GAA, .922 SV%
03-04: 19th (Quinn) - Belfour: 2.13 GAA, .918 SV%

05-06: 24th (Quinn) - Belfour: 3.29 GAA, .892 SV%
06-07: 27th (Maurice) - Raycroft: 2.99 GAA .894 SV% (37 wins)
07-08: 29th (Maurice) - Toskala: 2.74 GAA, .904 SV%


Between 3 coaches, a lockout, a different style of NHL - 02-03 is the only season in the last decade a Toronto team has had a PK finish above 16th best in the league (01-02 was 16th).

True, there is a strong correlation between great goaltending and PK success, but it's not mandatory to have a good goaltender in order to kill penalties. Looking at the PK stats of teams around the league, you have teams with very good PK results - take NJ for example - who don't exactly have a star duo in net. You also have teams like TB and NYI, with tandems that look pretty lousy, that still manage to maintain a middle-of-the-road PK%.

I don't disagree with what you're saying, that a lack of good goaltending is a valid reason for why they're sitting where they are, but at the same time, to me the scope of this problem goes way beyond goaltending.

I thought it was crazy that in a decade, with 3 different coaches, and multiple different lineups, we've only had one season with an above league-average PK.

Yeah I kind of went off on another tangent there.