2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread

[Peter D.]

Anyone else find that while he has improved leaps and bounds defensively, Arencibia is prone to some pretty bad plays behind the plate?  He is doing a much better job of blocking balls, but on some of them (like the 3rd strike on Pena last night), he almost looks amateurish. 

 

[Derk]

Speaking of amateurish, four more Jays errors pretty much cost them the game tonight against Tampa. Two more unearned runs in the 7th were the margin of victory.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

 

[bustaheims]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

Pfft. They suck.

 

[bustaheims]

The bigger issue tonight was that, after the 3rd inning, they had all of 2 guys reach base.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

That ump was pretty ridiculous.  Lawrie will get a suspension though for his helmet hitting him.

 

[maplesyrup]

To bad for Lawrie that it hit him.

 

[TML fan]

I'd love to see Arencibia duck one the next time that guy is behind the plate.

 

[Nik]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

According to...?

 

[dappleganger]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

According to...?

Only the San Francisco Giants have committed more errors than the Jays.

 

[bustaheims]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

According to...?

They do have the highest DER in the majors, for whatever that's worth.

EDIT: Had coming into tonight's game. They're now tied for 3rd.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

They're still among the best defensive teams in baseball, though.

According to...?

Cam Charron ‏ @camcharron

So the Blue Jays make a lot of errors. They're also the best-ranked defence in MLB. 72.4% of balls in play are outs.
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(blogs for The Score and a bunch of other media)

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/5/15/3020665/toronto-blue-jays-defense-stats

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Jays+defence+dials+numbers/6584240/story.html

 

[bustaheims]

Cam Charron ‏ @camcharron

So the Blue Jays make a lot of errors. They're also the best-ranked defence in MLB. 72.4% of balls in play are outs.
Expand

They've actually dropped to 3rd and 72.0% after tonight's numbers were actually factored in. They were 1st coming into tonight, though.

 

[Nik]

(blogs for The Score and a bunch of other media)

http://mlb.sbnation.com/2012/5/15/3020665/toronto-blue-jays-defense-stats

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Jays+defence+dials+numbers/6584240/story.html

Yeah, I mean, leaving aside the general issue of the wide array of defensive metrics out there I think the sample size we're dealing with for the 2012 Jays probably leaves the issue of their relative defensive competence up in the air right now.

Don't get me wrong, it's encouraging that they're highly ranked in some categories right now but man by man it's a pretty motley crew of fielders in terms of individual metrics over the last few years. Outside of Lawrie and Escobar I don't know that they've had anyone who consistently grades well.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

Yeah, it's definitely a small sample size, but I assumed we were accepting that when looking at the season thus far.  I also don't really know how well defensive stats are accepted, and I know the one I linked to is pretty new, but there's something there I think.

Seems like a lot of guys with above-average range, in the infield at least.

 

[Nik]

Yeah, it's definitely a small sample size, but I assumed we were accepting that when looking at the season thus far.  I also don't really know how well defensive stats are accepted, and I know the one I linked to is pretty new, but there's something there I think.

There is and, right now at least, the combination of a rotation that's heavy on righthanders who get a lot of groundballs and a left side of the infield that's very good they're playing very much to their particular strengths defensively.

There are lots of defensive statistics and my point is just that while many of them have merit, there's probably no one that merits definitively calling a team good or bad defensively. If there's an overwhelming consensus among the stats that a team's great, yeah, but even then you're going to want more time. Like the article above says, metrics that deal with BABIP are almost always going to regress to the mean.

For me, it's just a matter of the Jays still starting Thames, Bautista, Arencibia and Lind. Those are guys in some of the less important defensive spots, true, but I'd struggle to call any of them good defenders.

 

[hockeyfan1]

From: http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/2012/05/16/grange_jays_problems_lawrie_ejected/

The 3-1 pitch from Rays reliever Fernando Rodney was well wide. Lawrie didn't seem be showing up Miller on the call. He didn't flip his bat; he just dropped it and sprinted for first base as he does every time he gets a free pass.

Did Miller call the next pitch a strike to teach Lawrie a lesson? Who knows, but it certainly seems like that one was high and outside the zone too.

"Two of the worst calls I've ever seen in a major league ball game," was Sportsnet analyst Gregg Zaun's take. "?there's no way in my mind Bill Miller can defend those calls. They weren't even close."

 

[Damian]

I dont watch much ball, but those were seriously sh*$ty calls.... it will probably cost hime a fiver for the helmet thing tho.... too bad

 

[Derk]

Yeah, Lawrie will get suspended for that. Apparently the ump got hit by a drink thrown by a fan when he was leaving the field.

Regarding the defence, they may have good overall stats this season, but it has arguably cost them the last two games (7 unearned runs out of the 11 given up).

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I dont watch much ball, but those were seriously sh*$ty calls

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfxVB/pfx.php?s_type=3&sp_type=1&batterX=71&inning9=y&month=05&day=15&game=gid_2012_05_15_tbamlb_tormlb_1/&year=2012&pitchSel=407845&prevGame=gid_2012_05_15_tbamlb_tormlb_1/