Author Topic: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day  (Read 2812 times)

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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2018, 10:20:56 PM »

Shockingly, a government that sees its own incompetence as a selling point seems to have bungled this whole roll out.
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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2018, 10:20:56 PM »

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2018, 05:55:30 PM »

So I'm sure this isn't super interesting to anyone but me but to expand on what I said above, it looks like the provincial Conservatives, and specifically the way they changed the Liberal's plans for this rollout, hasn't gone very well. Leaving aside the processing delays, it looks like they badly underestimated the demand and as a result the online store now has significantly fewer products than it did when I bought mine.

Sure, I could chalk that up to just garden variety incompetence but I think it maybe hints at a larger issue within Conservatism in general as a political concept.

Because Conservative thought tends to one that is resistant to change or that is inherently suspicious of change I think it often falls into the trap of wanting an ever-changing world to adapt to its view of what is good and right rather than vice-versa. To Conservative thinkers, I think they see this is as a sort of admirable constancy rather than simply following the direction the wind is blowing.

The problem though, as we've seen in various ways, is that this means they're often out of step with what the values of what the world are. This is why I think traditional conservatism is getting rolled up by populism. In democratic societies, there's only so much hay you can make out of telling people they're wrong and their values lead to bad governing before they don't let you govern any more.

What we tend to then see up here is that in a country that's been Majority Left-Of-Conservative for 30 years, Conservatives tend to govern by denying what people's views often are in favour of acting like they have a popular mandate.

So, assuming they're acting in good faith rather than engaging in some sort of sabotage, I think this bungled roll out is a result of their thinking that because they didn't think Marijuana should be legal recreationally or think people liked it, that the demand didn't exist. Hence not just a lack of Cannabis, which I guess you could argue might be hard to keep in supply regardless, but also a lack of accessories which weren't even illegal to purchase pre-legalization of the drug itself.

TL; DR The OCS rollout has gone badly, in part because I think Conservatives need to lie about the world as it is to maintain their political outlook.
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Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2018, 06:21:46 PM »
I'll pay attention when there is a store in Ontario I can go to.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2018, 06:40:21 PM »
I'll pay attention when there is a store in Ontario I can go to.

Yes. Although many people said it at the time, it's clear that the decision to scrap physical OCS locations was one more concerned with ideology than effective service.
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Offline AtomicMapleLeaf

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2018, 07:10:44 PM »

So I'm sure this isn't super interesting to anyone but me but to expand on what I said above, it looks like the provincial Conservatives, and specifically the way they changed the Liberal's plans for this rollout, hasn't gone very well. Leaving aside the processing delays, it looks like they badly underestimated the demand and as a result the online store now has significantly fewer products than it did when I bought mine.

Sure, I could chalk that up to just garden variety incompetence but I think it maybe hints at a larger issue within Conservatism in general as a political concept.

Because Conservative thought tends to one that is resistant to change or that is inherently suspicious of change I think it often falls into the trap of wanting an ever-changing world to adapt to its view of what is good and right rather than vice-versa. To Conservative thinkers, I think they see this is as a sort of admirable constancy rather than simply following the direction the wind is blowing.

The problem though, as we've seen in various ways, is that this means they're often out of step with what the values of what the world are. This is why I think traditional conservatism is getting rolled up by populism. In democratic societies, there's only so much hay you can make out of telling people they're wrong and their values lead to bad governing before they don't let you govern any more.

What we tend to then see up here is that in a country that's been Majority Left-Of-Conservative for 30 years, Conservatives tend to govern by denying what people's views often are in favour of acting like they have a popular mandate.

So, assuming they're acting in good faith rather than engaging in some sort of sabotage, I think this bungled roll out is a result of their thinking that because they didn't think Marijuana should be legal recreationally or think people liked it, that the demand didn't exist. Hence not just a lack of Cannabis, which I guess you could argue might be hard to keep in supply regardless, but also a lack of accessories which weren't even illegal to purchase pre-legalization of the drug itself.

TL; DR The OCS rollout has gone badly, in part because I think Conservatives need to lie about the world as it is to maintain their political outlook.

You could say the same thing regarding the ACA (ObamaCare) here in the States.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2018, 10:38:26 AM »

Day 8: A critical person might say that it was probably a mistake to make what was sure to be a very highly sought after product only available through one distribution source.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2018, 10:50:14 AM »

Day 8: A critical person might say that it was probably a mistake to make what was sure to be a very highly sought after product only available through one distribution source.

Well, there was sure to be overwhelming demand initially, then it should taper off a bit.

I think the way Ontario is doing it might be a little more strategic in waiting until the early-adopters get their weed and try it once or twice, then don't really buy any more, then gauge a more normalized demand.

Offline herman

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2018, 10:56:43 AM »

On the eve of legalization I think it's important to keep in mind that this is a question that very much can split down along lines that reinforce problematic divisions within society.

On Thanksgiving me, my siblings and some cousins briefly discussed the pending legalization but from a fairly light-hearted stance of how we all had some funny stories about trying to buy pot while it was illegal and how the upcoming generation won't have any of those experiences. While it was true, I think it's still important not to simply frame this issue in terms of getting high or even about access to cannabis.

Because, really, as an urban white person of moderate means the prohibition of cannabis only ever really meant higher prices and funny stories for me. The only time law enforcement ever entered the picture was once in university when a friend was arrested by campus police and released the next morning. Realistically the "penalties" of it were never likely to touch me.

But we know that isn't true for everyone. People have been arrested and sent to prison for simple possession. And we know that black people and natives were over-represented in those cases despite cannabis usage being fairly similar across racial divides.

So, again, I know a lot of the focus will be on marijuana use once it's legalized but I really think it's important to keep in mind that this is really about having laws that more accurately reflect our values and a justice system that's more just. With any luck the government can move forward on further steps to rectify decades of bad policy by granting amnesty for anyone with possession convictions on their record.

There was an article on the star today that stated "In 2015 and 2016, according to Statistics Canada, 54,940 people were arrested on cannabis-related charges, and 76 per cent of those were possession charges." To me that's just absurd and a monumental waste of resources.

I read a book called Narconomics that talks about how and why the war on drugs has failed and why it's a fruitless endeavor. I'm glad we're finally making it accessible so we can generate tax revenue from something people are already doing (akin to alcohol) and hopefully that helps choke out the black market for this.

Just to circle back to what Nik said in that quoted posted, clearly the purpose of the 'War on Drugs' was not targeting drugs, and in that sense, it was (and still is) a resoundingly successful tool of systemic oppression. They literally branded cannabis with a Latin name for their vilification propaganda to stigmatize Mexicans.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 11:01:07 AM by herman »

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2018, 11:21:52 AM »
I think the way Ontario is doing it might be a little more strategic in waiting until the early-adopters get their weed and try it once or twice, then don't really buy any more, then gauge a more normalized demand.

I'm not sure how a staggered opening of provincial stores wouldn't have accomplished that regardless. Nobody was talking about them opening 150 or whatever stores immediately. I think the Liberals were planning on starting with four for the entire province which, I think you'd grant, is almost certainly not likely to outstrip a consistent demand.

I mean, it's not like if demand does taper off dramatically the website will work any differently. Opening stores would just have avoided the current Canada Post issues by having alternatives available to people on day 1. Something that other provinces did by way of having private retailers ready in time.

There's really no way around the Conservatives choosing this bottleneck over what was a pretty reasonable and in place Liberal policy.
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Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2018, 11:26:36 AM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2018, 11:33:17 AM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

I think that's generally true about everything other than procuring pot.

Seriously though, I don't think regular pot smokers are affected by this at all. From the ones I know, most of them are just buying it from their old suppliers.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline leafsjunkie

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2018, 12:42:55 PM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

I think that's generally true about everything other than procuring pot.

Seriously though, I don't think regular pot smokers are affected by this at all. From the ones I know, most of them are just buying it from their old suppliers.


Ding Ding Ding.... OCS prices are ridiculous....

Offline herman

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2018, 01:06:57 PM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

I think that's generally true about everything other than procuring pot.

Seriously though, I don't think regular pot smokers are affected by this at all. From the ones I know, most of them are just buying it from their old suppliers.


Ding Ding Ding.... OCS prices are ridiculous....

Username checks out!

Offline leafsjunkie

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2018, 01:18:42 PM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

I think that's generally true about everything other than procuring pot.

Seriously though, I don't think regular pot smokers are affected by this at all. From the ones I know, most of them are just buying it from their old suppliers.


Ding Ding Ding.... OCS prices are ridiculous....

Username checks out!

Good 'ol double meaning ;p

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:42 PM »
I thought Pot Smokers were just supposed to go with the flow man

I think that's generally true about everything other than procuring pot.

Seriously though, I don't think regular pot smokers are affected by this at all. From the ones I know, most of them are just buying it from their old suppliers.

And I think it will remain that way for quite a while.

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Re: October 17. 2018. Legalized Pot Day
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2018, 01:44:42 PM »