Author Topic: Ranking Prospects  (Read 34526 times)

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Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #90 on: September 08, 2015, 10:09:35 AM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.


Offline Nik

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #91 on: September 08, 2015, 11:23:49 AM »

I think PPP is a good website but I fear we may be approaching a point where their rankings are being taken a little too seriously in this thread.
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #92 on: September 08, 2015, 11:28:10 AM »
Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

Draft Schmaft?

Really all this says is that a large chunk of the voters placed way too much emphasis on who the best player is at this very moment. Which is a weird thing to do in a ranking like this, but that's their prerogative I guess. I don't think that any of them would really say that Kadri's ceiling is higher than Marner's.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #93 on: September 08, 2015, 11:38:52 AM »
Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

Draft Schmaft?

Really all this says is that a large chunk of the voters placed way too much emphasis on who the best player is at this very moment. Which is a weird thing to do in a ranking like this, but that's their prerogative I guess. I don't think that any of them would really say that Kadri's ceiling is higher than Marner's.

Well it's "Top 25 Under 25" so that might mean "most potential under 25" to some or "best right now" to others - they didn't set any parameters on it, seems they just let the voters interpret it and vote how they wanted. 

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #94 on: September 08, 2015, 11:51:42 AM »
I'm only using the PPP list to help generate discussion. I like seeing others' opinions and views on these prospects and players. In this year's edition of the list, they collectively went in a direction that I personally would not have, but I'm not their staff, nor am I a professional hockey writer, so it doesn't matter.

One of their commentors put it most poignantly:
Quote
I understand how different people rank based on different criteria, but for the top 5 the criteria should be based on one question; If you had to pick one player between two, who would it be?

Kadri or Rielly?
Kadri or Nylander?
Kadri or Marner?
Kadri or Gardiner?

Even outside the context of our current NHL lineup situation and prime timing of prospects/contracts, I'd still put Nylander/Marner/Rielly as Tier 1 over Kadri/Gardiner/JvR based on their junior/pro numbers and projections.
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Offline Nik

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #95 on: September 08, 2015, 12:06:05 PM »
I like seeing others' opinions and views on these prospects and players. In this year's edition of the list, they collectively went in a direction that I personally would not have, but I'm not their staff, nor am I a professional hockey writer, so it doesn't matter.

Well, they put it out there for it to be consumed and, one hopes, thoughtfully criticized so it should matter what you think of it. Like CtB said, this seems like a strange exercise without stricter parameters of just what it was they were measuring but, well, it's the off-season and content needs a generatin'.
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Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #96 on: September 08, 2015, 12:16:08 PM »
I like seeing others' opinions and views on these prospects and players. In this year's edition of the list, they collectively went in a direction that I personally would not have, but I'm not their staff, nor am I a professional hockey writer, so it doesn't matter.

Well, they put it out there for it to be consumed and, one hopes, thoughtfully criticized so it should matter what you think of it. Like CtB said, this seems like a strange exercise without stricter parameters of just what it was they were measuring but, well, it's the off-season and content needs a generatin'.

I've given them so many page hits this offseason...

The T25U25, if anything, has proven to be a good way to generate interest ramping up to the rookie tournament and training camp. I peruse other team rankings for tradebait.
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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #97 on: September 08, 2015, 12:31:55 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

That Kadri's really good -- elite in some ways -- and chucking a really good player that you've drafted and developed, who'll still be very good when you want your team to be good, for the chance to draft another really good player to develop seems... hasty? Pointless? I mean, until he's really tried out in the 1C role, seems trading him away would be Steen Redux.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2015, 12:42:49 PM by mr grieves »

Offline Bender

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #98 on: September 08, 2015, 12:42:28 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #99 on: September 08, 2015, 12:44:50 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.
Dont follow

Getting rid of what good players you've drafted and developed to be a perennial loser draft junkie is dumb.

Offline Bender

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #100 on: September 08, 2015, 12:46:00 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

That Kadri's really good -- elite in some ways -- and chucking a really good player that you've drafted and developed, who'll still be very good when you want your team to be good, for the chance to draft another really good player to develop seems... hasty? Pointless? I mean, until he's really tried out in the 1C role, seems trading him away would be Steen Redux.
We can still have another shot at the draft even with him in the lineup. But the time will come when you have to evaluate whether he will be valuable when we are competitive or if we should turn over the roster.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline Frank E

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #101 on: September 08, 2015, 12:48:23 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

That Kadri's really good -- elite in some ways -- and chucking a really good player that you've drafted and developed, who'll still be very good when you want your team to be good, for the chance to draft another really good player to draft and develop seems... hasty? Pointless? I mean, until he's really tried out in the 1C role, seems trading him away would be Steen Redux.

I've argued this for a while here, but I think it's a timing/cap issue with Kadri and Gardiner.

Like they'll be earning max-dollars in their prime within the next few years, and that production and cap $ wouldn't be very well spent given the core of the talent won't be properly productive until 2019-2020.

It's not a comment on Kadri's development or future production, it's more about what you could fetch for him right now that could develop into Kadri 2.0 timed with the rest of the talented core.  At that point, you maintain enough cap room so that you can look at adding FA's to supplement your core.

Offline Nik

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #102 on: September 08, 2015, 01:00:04 PM »
I've argued this for a while here, but I think it's a timing/cap issue with Kadri and Gardiner.

Like they'll be earning max-dollars in their prime within the next few years, and that production and cap $ wouldn't be very well spent given the core of the talent won't be properly productive until 2019-2020.

It's not a comment on Kadri's development or future production, it's more about what you could fetch for him right now that could develop into Kadri 2.0 timed with the rest of the talented core.  At that point, you maintain enough cap room so that you can look at adding FA's to supplement your core.

I think it's some pretty simple math. Will having Kadri on the team over the next few years mean anything? Not really. When the Leafs get good again will an older Kadri provide anything vital? Honestly, you hope they have at least a few centers on his level or better.

So the actual benefits to signing him to the sort of long-term deal that would be needed to keep him around that long seem pretty small.
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Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #103 on: September 08, 2015, 01:06:41 PM »
Kadri is #4

Reminding us why a 'shot' at another shiny new toy like Nylander or Marner doesn't make a lot of sense.

I don't understand what you're saying here.

That Kadri's really good -- elite in some ways -- and chucking a really good player that you've drafted and developed, who'll still be very good when you want your team to be good, for the chance to draft another really good player to draft and develop seems... hasty? Pointless? I mean, until he's really tried out in the 1C role, seems trading him away would be Steen Redux.

I've argued this for a while here, but I think it's a timing/cap issue with Kadri and Gardiner.

Like they'll be earning max-dollars in their prime within the next few years, and that production and cap $ wouldn't be very well spent given the core of the talent won't be properly productive until 2019-2020.

It's not a comment on Kadri's development or future production, it's more about what you could fetch for him right now that could develop into Kadri 2.0 timed with the rest of the talented core.  At that point, you maintain enough cap room so that you can look at adding FA's to supplement your core.

I hear what you're saying, mr grieves, and for such an elite player, I'd wholeheartedly agree.

I see Kadri as being just short of his peak, on a really good contract with a very good opportunity coming up this year to shine as the go-to guy. Gardiner and JvR as well. Are they the untouchable core of a championship-calibre team though? Ehhh...

By my (admittedly inexpert) assessment of their play and projections, they're more valuable to me as top dollar trade chips than as roster players at this time. All three of them are going to hit pay dirt on their next contracts and I'd rather have the cap flexibility.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #104 on: September 08, 2015, 01:10:27 PM »
Just a housekeeping observation: judging from the activity in this thread, and the deadness of the threads on the main board, I wonder if the prospects talk shouldn't be moved to the main board?  The prospects are going to be vastly more interesting than the actual team for at least a couple of years.