The Brian Burke Thread
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rjd
Well-known member
Bates said:
That's kinda painting everyone with the same brush. Every player is different. Some will play in Edmonton, some won't. Some will play in Toronto, some won't. It's just the way it is. The bottom line is that this team is really not all that much better than it was four years ago. Burke said that he would fix this quickly. I don't pretend to know what quickly means in Burke's mind, but in mine, it means less than 4 years.
Nik
Active member
Bates said:
I'm not, if only because I have no interest in making sweeping generalizations about anyone, I'm saying that what you're saying doesn't hold true by any reasonable viewing of the situation.
Mats Sundin is probably as far away from a look at me type as you can get. By all accounts he's a very private person. He dealt with the Toronto market in good times and bad. But he kept coming back. The worst anyone can say about him is that he didn't want to go elsewhere. How about Wendel Clark? Does he strike you as a flamboyant type? But he hasn't said one bad word about playing for the Leafs.
There is no evidence that the Leafs have trouble attracting players. Guys who get exposed to the media market here re-sign all the time. Grabo and Liles both did this year.
My point about the Lakers and Giants was about the ability to put together winning teams in high pressure markets. It's possible. The Leafs have just been unable to do it.
dappleganger
Well-known member
If the Leafs are having trouble attracting free agents, it's because of how poor the team has played. It has nothing to do with the city or the market.
Peter D.
Moderator
The more I think about it, the more concerned I am that Burke is putting us in cap hell.
We have $17.4M committed to Phaneuf, Kessel and Grabovski. I'm going to come out and say it -- I am uncomfortable knowing these three are considered our core and will be eating up a good chunk of the salary cap.
Throw in Komisarek, Connolly, Armstrong, Lombardi; even though the latter three come off the books next year, there is minimal wiggle room to do anything right now. Hopefully Burke has a few more rabbits in his hat because this situation is getting ugly again.
We have $17.4M committed to Phaneuf, Kessel and Grabovski. I'm going to come out and say it -- I am uncomfortable knowing these three are considered our core and will be eating up a good chunk of the salary cap.
Throw in Komisarek, Connolly, Armstrong, Lombardi; even though the latter three come off the books next year, there is minimal wiggle room to do anything right now. Hopefully Burke has a few more rabbits in his hat because this situation is getting ugly again.
Mikhail Bloodnovsky
New member
Peter D. said:
Burke assembled an entourage of 100 assistant GMs. Let's see what they come up with.
Edit: I hope that not all they do is ride unicycles in those epic helicopter hats and swing from the chandeliers.
Bender
Well-known member
Chazz-Micheal Liles said:
caver
Active member
dm_for_pm said:
It may not be as direct as that, but if you are suggesting that the Toronto media doesn't contribute to the pressure felt by Leaf players i would say you are wrong. I believe that media pressure may be well known throughout the NHL.
lamajama
Well-known member
Not counting any new CBA opportunities to buy out a player(s) and not have it count to the Cap, I would anticipate BB dropping Armstrong and maybe even Connolly to the Marlies - if he swings a deal for Nash (extremely unlikely) as an example.
I think Cap issues will be the least of our problems when it comes to actually getting players. MLSE can re-coup one Armstrong every 1 1/2
playoff games - if not one game.
I think Cap issues will be the least of our problems when it comes to actually getting players. MLSE can re-coup one Armstrong every 1 1/2
playoff games - if not one game.
hockeyfan1
New member
Could this be a tell-tale portent of things to come for the Leafs in attracting soon-to-be free agents in the off-season, should they decide to pursue this route? Considering the teams sorry reputation in the standings, coupled with the media pressure, and lack of a winning atmosphere, what free agents would want to play for Brian Burke's squad? Has Burke's 'aura' diminished?
The Toronto Maple Leafs may have been hoping Zach Parise would consider their club in free agency this summer. But perhaps that's false hope.
Parise told friends (according to the Toronto Sun's Steve Simmons) that he wouldn't consider the Leafs in free agency this summmer...
Source: ESPN Rumour Central
The Toronto Maple Leafs may have been hoping Zach Parise would consider their club in free agency this summer. But perhaps that's false hope.
Parise told friends (according to the Toronto Sun's Steve Simmons) that he wouldn't consider the Leafs in free agency this summmer...
Source: ESPN Rumour Central
pnjunction
New member
Well I can only imagine players might be having the same doubts about Burke's ability to get something going here as many of the fans.
Year 3 and worse than ever, if you stop believing the talk there's nothing left but the results to speak for themselves.
Year 3 and worse than ever, if you stop believing the talk there's nothing left but the results to speak for themselves.
ontariojames
New member
Anyone else actually want Burke fired right now? I do, if only because with him around he will never swallow his pride and trade Phaneuf and Carlyle will probably never take away Phaneuf's captaincy with Burke around. Phaneuf's 7 mil a year cap hit, while only being worth probably 4 million, is a huge handicap while trying to build a good defence group.
pnjunction said:
I'm not sure about "worse than ever". Part of this team's struggles relates to it's youth. And that youth/pipeline is better than they've had in some time. They do lack a couple of elite youth but they have collected some promising young talent.
I agree that some players do not care to play in the Toronto media market. We've heard it many times from players and executives over the years. Not usually from the UFA himself specifically because they don't want the media & fan wrath that could cause them but from those talking about the market in general. It's there and it's real. Toronto media scrutiny is not for all players.
Attracting UFAs is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. One enticing reason for a UFA to come to a team is that team's chance to win a Cup. Some talk about maybe Vokoun coming this summer for example (ignoring the merits). But he's not getting any younger and wants to win now. He took a big discount to play in Washington for that chance. I can't see Toronto appealing to him this summer for that reason: they have little chance to win a Cup next year.
The other side of that is similar to Toronto before and after Cujo. Just before Cujo, attracting top quality UFAs was more difficult. Once they landed Cujo and went to the conference finals, Roberts & Corson signed up because the team then had a respectable chance to win with Cujo and it wasn't nearly as problematic to land UFAs afterwards - while they were competitive.
UFAs will be easier to attract once this team demonstrates they're competitive. Either the youth matures or they get lucky and land a home town player like Cujo and either of those things improves the club enough that it becomes more attractive to sign in Toronto.
As some players have said: "there's no better place to play when the team is going well and there may be no worse a place to play, when the team isn't going well."
Zee
Well-known member
Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me every single season since i've been watching, I'm a Leafs fan.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me every single season since i've been watching, I'm a Leafs fan.
YYZ
Well-known member
Burke & Nonis better start summoning The Great Gazoo to help them fix this mess.
"Hello you two dumb-dumbs"
"Hello you two dumb-dumbs"
Optimus Reimer
New member
Burke should be fired. The team is no better than what it was when Burke was first hired. Players have come and gone, and on paper, the team should be better, but it isn't. Phaneuf was made captain of the team, while there may not have been no real alternative, he was expected to be one of the team leaders, but again, the Leafs overvalue a player. Burke gave RW an extension, then 2 monthish later fires him. The team at one point was decently in 7th, but has fallen to 12th. The team itself looks like it may not win another game the rest of the season and the players are playing with little or no interest.
All I am saying is that Burke came to Toronto with bravado and higher expectations for the team, but no matter what Burke did, the team was never good enough to be in the playoffs. If everything else is changed, and there is no improvement, then the one making the changes should go.
All I am saying is that Burke came to Toronto with bravado and higher expectations for the team, but no matter what Burke did, the team was never good enough to be in the playoffs. If everything else is changed, and there is no improvement, then the one making the changes should go.
Zee
Well-known member
Optimus Reimer said:
Hard to argue with your logic. Burke came in saying he didn't believe in a traditional rebuild where you bottom out for 5 years, implying Leafs could "re-tool" on the fly and make the playoffs sooner. This November will mark his 4th anniversary since he was hired and the Leafs are no closer to the playoffs. You can say he was left with a "bare cupboard" by the previous administration and had to build up the prospect pool, but when the hell do we start to see success on the ice? Other teams have re-built their teams in far quicker time frames.
If Florida makes the playoffs, Leafs are the ONLY team of 30 who haven't made the playoffs since the lockout -- totally embarrassing.
ZBBM
Well-known member
Should Burke be fired? I waver on that. But Burke should take this season as a big fat cue to knock off with the know-it-all bravado and bluster. He's just been served a very big piece of humble pie, and needs to finish every crumb like a good boy.
Mikhail Bloodnovsky
New member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't think he is going anywhere but he needs to dial down on his arrogance.
GhostofPotvin29
Well-known member
Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate said:
I don't see why it should matter how much bravado and bluster he has. That is who he is, that is who he has always been, and that's likely part of the reason he has reached this level.
But I don't see why it should matter to you as a fan. Personally, when he goes on some kind of rant I typically smirk when reading/hearing/seeing it, and then move on. I don't take any of it too serious unless it's a press conference for something, and even then, I think it's fairly easy to tell when he's just putting it on for the media.
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