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2025 Offseason Thread: Spring Cleaning

A) Treliving never announced he was examining trading Marner specifically. Just that he was looking at all possibilities to improve the roster. Which every GM who doesn't win the Cup says. Because it's their job. Seriously, where do you get some of this stuff?

B) They were not expecting a child early in the offseason. Based on a rough timeline of when Miles was born (early May), they would have only conceived in late July/early August, and probably wouldn't have known until around the time training camp started.
I was going to say, if you aren't throwing players name's out in trade to see what you get back then you aren't doing your job, and if you have players that take that as a slight then they really shouldn't be on the team anyway. Can you tell I want to see a Vegas model of personnel management?

CW, I'm fully aware I have a biased and opposing opinion here, and I really do value your posts, but it really sounds like you should be Marner's agent.
 
50ish cuts from this list?

I’m guessing it will mostly be from the Ops side, and some old AGMs like Ryan Hardy. Shanahan’s executive assistant will certainly be let go or re-roled. Some amateur scouting staff will naturally be out after the draft, and I’m hoping the pro-scouts get revamped too.
 
A) Treliving never announced he was examining trading Marner specifically. Just that he was looking at all possibilities to improve the roster. Which every GM who doesn't win the Cup says. Because it's their job. Seriously, where do you get some of this stuff?

B) They were not expecting a child early in the offseason. Based on a rough timeline of when Miles was born (early May), they would have only conceived in late July/early August, and probably wouldn't have known until around the time training camp started.
A) LeBrun spoke with Treliving at length at the combine.
For Marner, "All options are on the table" (Trading Marner has to be one of the options)
After the conversation, Lebrun speculated that the Leafs would be as active trying to make something happen with a Marner trade as other NHL teams would be phoning the Leafs trying to trade for Marner.

Treliving June, 2024 “Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing,"
At that time, Mitch had a contract until July 1, 2025. He doesn't need another contract until then.
He doesn't need to do anything until then.
So a bunch of the control Treliving is referring to is Mitch's control over a trade.
Why bring that up if they're not thinking about it?

And Treliving followed that remark while discussing Marner with this:
"If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”

Lebrun starts talking about his lengthy chat with Treliving at around the 12 minute mark.

B) Parents are often trying for a child well before conception. Both his wife's family and his family are in and from the Toronto area. It is understandable that Marner would like to raise his family around both families in Toronto. Weeks before Lebrun's interview of Treliving, Marner reiterated his desire to re-sign in Toronto and his family ties to Toronto.
 
Sorry, way behind on this. I'm in Northern Saskatchewan and things have been "spotty".

I like Matthews. I really do. You're right. He scores goals. But, he has 4 goals in the last 18 playoff games. 9 in the last 29. He's scoring at a 25-30% rate. Other than his first season, he has never scored at less than a 50% GPG rate in the regular season. He's had disappearing acts in the playoffs. And I'm sorry, but I have a way bigger concern about your goal scorer disappearing when the going gets tough.

We know that he's been injured, but has it been for the last 3 playoff seasons? And if so, is that not a HUGE concern? Again, disappearing when the going gets tough.

Yes, Matthews is special guy. He brings something that is hard/next to impossible to replace. But doesn't that mean that him performing is MORE important than the easily replaceable playmaker?

We all want more out of Marner. But I'm not sure we should be expecting to make up for the lack of scoring from your guy with the trump card by counting on the guy that has never been a goal scorer.

Thanks for responding, and no problems on the delay 👍🏼

I guess I can see where you’re coming from, but definitely can’t agree.

The one thing I’d say, I think a goal scorer is more likely to be impactful if his trump card comes off.

If Marners trump card of producing a great play and an unreal pass comes off, he’s still reliant on someone else then scoring it.

So I think there’s value in keeping a Matthews around cos a lot of the series we’ve had could turn on one goal and as a goal scorer he’s more likely to do it at some stag, especially as he has several different ways of scoring.

If you get me.
 
A) LeBrun spoke with Treliving at length at the combine.
For Marner, "All options are on the table" (Trading Marner has to be one of the options)
After the conversation, Lebrun speculated that the Leafs would be as active trying to make something happen with a Marner trade as other NHL teams would be phoning the Leafs trying to trade for Marner.

Treliving June, 2024 “Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing,"
At that time, Mitch had a contract until July 1, 2025. He doesn't need another contract until then.
He doesn't need to do anything until then.
So a bunch of the control Treliving is referring to is Mitch's control over a trade.
Why bring that up if they're not thinking about it?

And Treliving followed that remark while discussing Marner with this:
"If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”

Lebrun starts talking about his lengthy chat with Treliving at around the 12 minute mark.

B) Parents are often trying for a child well before conception. Both his wife's family and his family are in and from the Toronto area. It is understandable that Marner would like to raise his family around both families in Toronto. Weeks before Lebrun's interview of Treliving, Marner reiterated his desire to re-sign in Toronto and his family ties to Toronto.
If he’s asked a direct question about Marner, do you expect Treliving to just not respond? You’re reaching, and you know it. Also, a trade wasn’t the only thing Marner’s camp controlled. They also controlled a willingness to negotiate an extension, which he was eligible to sign last July - and, despite publicly being open to it, every report since has suggested he rebuffed every attempt to engage.
 
If he’s asked a direct question about Marner, do you expect Treliving to just not respond? You’re reaching, and you know it. Also, a trade wasn’t the only thing Marner’s camp controlled. They also controlled a willingness to negotiate an extension, which he was eligible to sign last July - and, despite publicly being open to it, every report since has suggested he rebuffed every attempt to engage.

Yes, 'not responding' is an answer to the question. Ask a lawyer. The whole context of the discussion was about Marner. Treliving (as quoted by Lebrun) "We’ve got to look at every possible way for our team to be better. Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing (with the no-trade). If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”
That was not the only time he expressed something like that when talking about Marner. He reiterated something to that effect in the weeks that followed.

Marner had negotiated a NMC in good faith. Those remarks increased the media craziness around him. For a player heading into a contract year, they're devaluing.

As well, you are ignoring what he didn't say: he did not offer that re-signing Marner was a priority at the outset like he did Matthews & Nylander. Everything was on the table when it came to Marner. Where were the similar trade possibility comments when Treliving was talking about re-signing Matthews? Nowhere. Those didn't happen like they did with Marner. I'm not the only one who noticed that. A lot of people noted that. What is Treliving's excuse for that?

So the player went from declaring he wanted to get going on his contract "now" and wanted to remain in Toronto during the exit media scrum after the playoffs to the player's agent declaring, after remarks like the above, that Marner would not waive the NMC and would play out his contract while he finished the 2024-25 season with the Leafs and would not discuss his contract with the media during the season. That muzzled a bunch of the media chatter.
 
The Leafs definitely made progress defensively and lowered their goals against. I also thought a lot about Sheldon Keefe’s parting words, “When teams play the Leafs, they set up the game for the Leafs to beat themselves.” The Leafs definitely got that out of their game by and large this season. They didn’t choke away many games with silly defensive lapses and generally made opponents work to earn offense against them. There was improvement.

To take it to the next level, though, the Leafs need to build more layers on top of their defensive play to actually possess the puck more and tilt the ice the other way rather than simply packing the house, blocking a ton of shots, and boxing out the net.

I don't think Berube's system was the problem; I think the team was kind of only doing the defense half of it, and hoping for the best with the top forwards carrying the play otherwise.

I think we see better possession numbers once the Leafs get faster, better forechecking forwards (thus playing defense less). Would've liked to see that earlier, but given how the roster changes were largely on the backend last offseason, that wasn't a surprise.
 
Thanks for responding, and no problems on the delay 👍🏼

I guess I can see where you’re coming from, but definitely can’t agree.

The one thing I’d say, I think a goal scorer is more likely to be impactful if his trump card comes off.

If Marners trump card of producing a great play and an unreal pass comes off, he’s still reliant on someone else then scoring it.

So I think there’s value in keeping a Matthews around cos a lot of the series we’ve had could turn on one goal and as a goal scorer he’s more likely to do it at some stag, especially as he has several different ways of scoring.

If you get me.
I agree. and I get you.

Except he's not doing it. He's not showing his several ways of scoring. He's not elevating his game and stealing wins for us. That's not a 13.25M guy IMO.

If we're going to talk about Marner being this expendable, "regular season hero". We need to really look at Matthews in the same light. because IMO, these past two seasons, he's been worse than Marner. Heck, he's barely outscoring the expendable playmaker.
 
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I don't have actual player names to fill out the blanks (I don't know who is truly available), but I do have a wishlist of player profiles that's not just McDavid x 12. I'll use incumbents where possible, but some of them should obviously be replaced with better/younger options if possible.

Knies - Matthews - Fast-forechecking RW
Laughton - Two-way responsible centre (Sam Bennett or Charlie Coyle trade?) - Nylander
McMann - Tavares (@~4-5M) - Jarnkrok (or fast rush winger like Kasperi Kapanen/Sam Lafferty)
Lorentz - Holmberg/Quillan - Marlie grad/Cheapo UFA

Dropping in Brad Marchand into 2LW with Nylander would be pretty interesting given his previous success finding Pastrnak with regularity. Or flip McMann to Nylander if he's not snoozing as much, and Laughton-Tavares will still be a good match.

The shape of the forward approach is kind of consistent: heavy and/or fast on the wings, responsible dishy or shooty centres. There are maybe only two players who can carry the puck through the middle with possession on a regular basis, so the default play is to chip to one side and flush the play to the weakside where they can forecheck with a couple of layers, bump the puck to the high middle and work it onto the net. No real need to bust the bank and blow the cap room.
 
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I don't have actual player names to fill out the blanks (I don't know who is truly available), but I do have a wishlist of player profiles that's not just McDavid x 12. I'll use incumbents where possible, but some of them should obviously be replaced with better/younger options if possible.

Knies - Matthews - Fast-forechecking RW
Laughton - Two-way responsible centre (Sam Bennett or Charlie Coyle trade?) - Nylander
McMann - Tavares (@~4-5M) - Jarnkrok (or fast rush winger like Kasperi Kapanen/Sam Lafferty)
Lorentz - Holmberg/Quillan - Marlie grad/Cheapo UFA

Dropping in Brad Marchand into 2LW with Nylander would be pretty interesting given his previous success finding Pastrnak with regularity. Or flip McMann to Nylander if he's not snoozing as much, and Laughton-Tavares will still be a good match.

The shape of the forward approach is kind of consistent: heavy and/or fast on the wings, responsible dishy or shooty centres. There are maybe only two players who can carry the puck through the middle with possession on a regular basis, so the default play is to chip to one side and flush the play to the weakside where they can forecheck with a couple of layers, bump the puck to the high middle and work it onto the net. No real need to bust the bank and blow the cap room.
Put Cowan in Jarnkrok's spot, and you've got a stew going.
 
Put Cowan in Jarnkrok's spot, and you've got a stew going.

I like that for the latter half of the year after Cowan's had some marination in the AHL; and presumably Jarnkrok gets a full training camp, rebuilds his value and either takes on a legit role or is traded by the deadline to fill a different lack.
 
Yes, 'not responding' is an answer to the question. Ask a lawyer. The whole context of the discussion was about Marner. Treliving (as quoted by Lebrun) "We’ve got to look at every possible way for our team to be better. Mitch controls a lot of this whole thing (with the no-trade). If there’s a way to make our team better, we’re going to do it. But we’re certainly not going to make a trade just so we can pound our chest and say, ‘Look, we’re different.'”
That was not the only time he expressed something like that when talking about Marner. He reiterated something to that effect in the weeks that followed.

Marner had negotiated a NMC in good faith. Those remarks increased the media craziness around him. For a player heading into a contract year, they're devaluing.

As well, you are ignoring what he didn't say: he did not offer that re-signing Marner was a priority at the outset like he did Matthews & Nylander. Everything was on the table when it came to Marner. Where were the similar trade possibility comments when Treliving was talking about re-signing Matthews? Nowhere. Those didn't happen like they did with Marner. I'm not the only one who noticed that. A lot of people noted that. What is Treliving's excuse for that?

So the player went from declaring he wanted to get going on his contract "now" and wanted to remain in Toronto during the exit media scrum after the playoffs to the player's agent declaring, after remarks like the above, that Marner would not waive the NMC and would play out his contract while he finished the 2024-25 season with the Leafs and would not discuss his contract with the media during the season. That muzzled a bunch of the media chatter.

CJ on his podcast literally said the Marner camp was always going to go to July 1st and that they weren't willing to negotiate in season. This trying to read between the lines is tedious and I take the reporting from CJ at a higher standard than speculation on why certain things were or weren't said.
 
I like that for the latter half of the year after Cowan's had some marination in the AHL; and presumably Jarnkrok gets a full training camp, rebuilds his value and either takes on a legit role or is traded by the deadline to fill a different lack.

Travis Konecny didn't need seasoning in the AHL and I don't think Cowan will need any either. Let Easton start the season with the big club. If he looks lost out there the AHL is always an option but I'm looking for a 10-13 minutes a night to start of some kind of positive impact, I think he can do it.

If the Leafs start the season with Järnkrok on the roster they are not serious about competing for a Stanley Cup.
 
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I agree. and I get you.

Except he's not doing it. He's not showing his several ways of scoring. He's not elevating his game and stealing wins for us. That's not a 13.25M guy IMO.

If we're going to talk about Marner being this expendable, "regular season hero". We need to really look at Matthews in the same light. because IMO, these past two seasons, he's been worse than Marner. Heck, he's barely outscoring the expendable playmaker.

If Matthews doesn't come back from his injury, all the billions of pixels being spilled over this Marner stuff won't matter one bit anyway.
 
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Travis Konecny didn't need seasoning in the AHL and I don't think Cowan will need any either. Let Easton start the season with the big club. If he looks lost out there the AHL is always an option but I'm looking for a 10-13 minutes a night to start of some kind of positive impact, I think he can do it.
Yeah. If the expectation was for him to fill a top 6 role immediately once he got here, I'd agree he should start in the AHL, but as a 3rd line energy guy who can chip some offence? I think there's a good chance he's already ready for that.
 
He seemed pretty confident that time off in the summer will heal what ails him.
You know what...he's entitled to his privacy around his health. He's entitled to not disclosing decisions on why they chose certain treatment plans. I'm not going to hold his health against him, but he needs to perform if he's in the lineup. It's not like he's perpetually injured but this is now two seasons where he has played hurt for massive stretches of the year and it has caused a notable decline in his production.

I'll take him at his word for now, but I'm at least moderately concerned that this becomes a frequent event with Matthews. This year was as good as any year to take time off during the season if it was a fixable problem. Next year without Marner this roster probably can't handle losing Matthews for 3 months
 
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