2015 MLB ALDS - Texas Rangers (88-74) @ Toronto Blue Jays (93-69)

[herman]

I gotta say, I love that there was an interview with home plate ump Dale Scott after the game where he clearly explained what happened in the top of the 7th.  It's nice to get that sort of openness from the officials.

Yup, and he explained what pretty much everyone thought I think. Called time at first but quickly realized his mistake. Let the runner score because common sense dictated that there was no way a Jay was going to throw him out. I mean I was angry with it at the time, and I still probably would be if we lost, but I get it. I'm just used to a hockey mentality where common sense can never come into play. I mean imagine a ref blew his whistle incorrectly for whatever reason and then a second later a goal was scored that would have been even if the whistle didn't go. There's no way that goal could have stood. And then don't get me started about refs being allowed to use common sense logic to make a call (like when you can't see a puck pass the line but you know that it physically had to).

And of course like you said, it is pretty great that the MLB makes/allows the umps to take questions like these. Would be huge if the NHL did that instead of constantly hiding/sheltering them.

I thought Dale Scott did a great job handling that error (not the initial calling Dead Ball, though that was a mistake that most umps would've made), and the (crazy) game on the whole. He could've turned it into a total poopshow (Jim Wolf style), but did everything diplomatically and stalwartly while the entire stadium was breathing down his neck.

 

[cabber24]

I gotta say, I love that there was an interview with home plate ump Dale Scott after the game where he clearly explained what happened in the top of the 7th.  It's nice to get that sort of openness from the officials.

Yup, and he explained what pretty much everyone thought I think. Called time at first but quickly realized his mistake. Let the runner score because common sense dictated that there was no way a Jay was going to throw him out. I mean I was angry with it at the time, and I still probably would be if we lost, but I get it. I'm just used to a hockey mentality where common sense can never come into play. I mean imagine a ref blew his whistle incorrectly for whatever reason and then a second later a goal was scored that would have been even if the whistle didn't go. There's no way that goal could have stood. And then don't get me started about refs being allowed to use common sense logic to make a call (like when you can't see a puck pass the line but you know that it physically had to).

And of course like you said, it is pretty great that the MLB makes/allows the umps to take questions like these. Would be huge if the NHL did that instead of constantly hiding/sheltering them.

I thought Dale Scott did a great job handling that error (not the initial calling Dead Ball, though that was a mistake that most umps would've made), and the (crazy) game on the whole. He could've turned it into a total poopshow (Jim Wolf style), but did everything diplomatically and stalwartly while the entire stadium was breathing down his neck.

The rule is dumb and I'm surprised it exist. Has this actually happened before? I don't think the catcher accidentally hitting the batter while throwing the ball to the pitcher should be considered a baseball play. All batter's should now unintentionally "intentionally" attempt to get in the way of the catcher when runners are on, extra stretching, bat waving... etc.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm just used to a hockey mentality where common sense can never come into play. I mean imagine a ref blew his whistle incorrectly for whatever reason and then a second later a goal was scored that would have been even if the whistle didn't go. There's no way that goal could have stood. And then don't get me started about refs being allowed to use common sense logic to make a call (like when you can't see a puck pass the line but you know that it physically had to).

Intent to blow!

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I gotta say, I love that there was an interview with home plate ump Dale Scott after the game where he clearly explained what happened in the top of the 7th.  It's nice to get that sort of openness from the officials.

Yup, and he explained what pretty much everyone thought I think. Called time at first but quickly realized his mistake. Let the runner score because common sense dictated that there was no way a Jay was going to throw him out. I mean I was angry with it at the time, and I still probably would be if we lost, but I get it. I'm just used to a hockey mentality where common sense can never come into play. I mean imagine a ref blew his whistle incorrectly for whatever reason and then a second later a goal was scored that would have been even if the whistle didn't go. There's no way that goal could have stood. And then don't get me started about refs being allowed to use common sense logic to make a call (like when you can't see a puck pass the line but you know that it physically had to).

And of course like you said, it is pretty great that the MLB makes/allows the umps to take questions like these. Would be huge if the NHL did that instead of constantly hiding/sheltering them.

I thought Dale Scott did a great job handling that error (not the initial calling Dead Ball, though that was a mistake that most umps would've made), and the (crazy) game on the whole. He could've turned it into a total poopshow (Jim Wolf style), but did everything diplomatically and stalwartly while the entire stadium was breathing down his neck.

And here is what he said after the game, owned up to mixing up the rules at first:

"That was my mistake," Scott told a pool reporter. "I was mixing up two rules and I called time, but then it started clicking. I went wait a minute, wait a minute, there?s no intent on the hitter. He?s in the box, the bat?s in the box. So to make sure I?m on the right page, I got everybody together and that?s what we had. If there?s no intent, if he?s not out of the box, that throw?s live. And after talking, that runner would have scored. Even if I had not called timeout, he was on his way, so we scored the run."

 

[bustaheims]

The rule is dumb and I'm surprised it exist. Has this actually happened before? I don't think the catcher accidentally hitting the batter while throwing the ball to the pitcher should be considered a baseball play. All batter's should now unintentionally "intentionally" attempt to get in the way of the catcher when runners are on, extra stretching, bat waving... etc.

Similar plays happen a few times a season. As for the rule, MLB basically has a rule for any conceivable situation. The MLB rulebook is complex and includes a lot of very specific rules that you can go your entire life never seeing being put into play. As for the play specifically, the ball is live on the throw back to the pitcher, and the batter is 100% entitled to all of the batter's box. It's part of a play that happens hundreds of times in a game. There's no reason is shouldn't be a baseball play, as long as the batter isn't doing anything unusual or intentional to obstruct the throw - which extra stretching, bat waving, etc., could be considered to be.

The real issue with the play isn't about the ball hitting Choo - the rules for that are clear and necessary - it's about Scott calling the play dead, and the rules that surround that, which haven't really been addressed publically.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

There's no reason is shouldn't be a baseball play, as long as the batter isn't doing anything unusual or intentional to obstruct the throw - which extra stretching, bat waving, etc., could be considered to be.

And really, even if he was doing extra stretching and waving his bat, as long as the batter and his bat/equipment is all in the batters box, it's fair game.

 

[bustaheims]

And really, even if he was doing extra stretching and waving his bat, as long as the batter and his bat/equipment is all in the batters box, it's fair game.

To an extent, yeah. If the umpire feels it's being done with the intent of obstructing the throw back to the pitcher, then it's a dead ball if it hits him - and, I believe, the batter can be called out as well.

 

[OldTimeHockey]

The rule is dumb and I'm surprised it exist. Has this actually happened before? I don't think the catcher accidentally hitting the batter while throwing the ball to the pitcher should be considered a baseball play. All batter's should now unintentionally "intentionally" attempt to get in the way of the catcher when runners are on, extra stretching, bat waving... etc.

 

[ZBBM]

Baseball reaches a flipping point

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/16/sports/baseball/bat-flip-bautista-blue-jays.html

 

[Kin]

A side issue mainly but Jays fans really need to stop acting like such dinks. Whether it ranges from the just dumb and acting like such hypersensitive babies about what Reynolds said to actually legitimately dangerous like throwing stuff on the field, Jays fans really aren't making the city look good.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

A side issue mainly but Jays fans really need to stop acting like such dinks. Whether it ranges from the just dumb and acting like such hypersensitive babies about what Reynolds said to actually legitimately dangerous like throwing stuff on the field, Jays fans really aren't making the city look good.

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

 

[Kin]

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

I mean, I don't agree. There have been fan bases in big games where calls have actually been wrong and gone against them and they haven't responded that way.

But also, you can't detach it from the general "THEY'RE OUT TO GET US" hot takes that have permeated the entire series. A lot of Jays fans are reacting to everything, whether it's the scheduling of the games or even some perceived bad strike zones, as evidence as an overreaching conspiracy against the team and it's pretty hard to justify. Especially considering how empty the place was in June.

 

[CarltonTheBear]

I mean, I don't agree. There have been fan bases in big games where calls have actually been wrong and gone against them and they haven't responded that way.

Maybe not every bad call. But I'm not going to feel embarrassed or ashamed as a Jays fan/Torontonian-ish/Canadian because a small percentage of people in a huge sports arena where alcohol was flowing acted like idiots.

But also, you can't detach it from the general "THEY'RE OUT TO GET US" hot takes that have permeated the entire series. A lot of Jays fans are reacting to everything, whether it's the scheduling of the games or even some perceived bad strike zones, as evidence as an overreaching conspiracy against the team and it's pretty hard to justify. Especially considering how empty the place was in June.

This I'll agree with. Anybody who felt personally offended by what Reynolds said should re-think their priorities. And while I thought some of the strike zones were a joke, I attributed that to just plain old incompetence not some kind of anti-Canada agenda.

 

[Kin]

Maybe not every bad call. But I'm not going to feel embarrassed or ashamed as a Jays fan/Torontonian-ish/Canadian because a small percentage of people in a huge sports arena where alcohol was flowing acted like idiots.

The thing is though that these things don't happen in a vacuum. Take your estimated percentages, let's use the low end and say it's 98% of fans who aren't throwing stuff. So that means that it's one out of every 50 fans. That means, ideally, that when one person throws something, there are 49 people around them yelling "Hey jackass, don't throw stuff on the field".

But if that were the case I think I've been in enough crowds to know that you wouldn't have more than one person throwing things. The reality is that when you have something like what happened last night, a pretty good percentage of those 49 fans are going "WOOO!" when someone throws something.

I'm not saying each fan who, say, wasn't at the game should be embarrassed or take personal responsibility for it but that wasn't a very well behaved crowd last night and it's not limited to the people tossing beers.

 

[GhostofPotvin29]

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

That reminds me, a friend of mine was at the game and texted me while that whole ball hits off the bat thing was going on to ask me what was happening because the people in the crowd had no idea.  Pretty much all they knew was a pitch happened, the ball was being thrown back, was in the field, a run scored.  No sort of explanation ever given, he was saying it was chaotic in the crowd.

 

[AtomicMapleLeaf]

I think it all started with the waffles.

 

[Bender]

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

That reminds me, a friend of mine was at the game and texted me while that whole ball hits off the bat thing was going on to ask me what was happening because the people in the crowd had no idea.  Pretty much all they knew was a pitch happened, the ball was being thrown back, was in the field, a run scored.  No sort of explanation ever given, he was saying it was chaotic in the crowd.

I think of how bad it was there and think of all the people complaining. Then I think of Vancouver-Boston 2010.

 

[Kin]

I think of how bad it was there and think of all the people complaining. Then I think of Vancouver-Boston 2010.

Being better than Canucks fans should be a bare minimum.

 

[TML fan]

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

I mean, I don't agree. There have been fan bases in big games where calls have actually been wrong and gone against them and they haven't responded that way.

It happened in New York in 2004. Happened in LA in 1995 in a pretty meaningless game to boot.

 

[herman]

I'm certainly not pro-garbage throwing or anything like that, but there's a lot of what you said going on out there. I saw one article that said the Jays fans embarrassed all of Canada and that the Jays didn't deserve success because of it. Come on. There were about 50,000 people at the game last night, how many were throwing garbage out on the field? I saw pictures of the field with the garbage, that wasn't enough debris for it to have even been 1,000 people. Even if it were that or more, 95-98% of those in attendance likely weren't acting like complete morons. That sounds pretty good to me. Considering the confusion surrounding the call and the stakes surrounding the game, I'm pretty sure any home fan base would have reacted the same way, probably even worse in some markets.

That reminds me, a friend of mine was at the game and texted me while that whole ball hits off the bat thing was going on to ask me what was happening because the people in the crowd had no idea.  Pretty much all they knew was a pitch happened, the ball was being thrown back, was in the field, a run scored.  No sort of explanation ever given, he was saying it was chaotic in the crowd.

I appreciate how the NHL and NFL handle this aspect of a ruling/video replay.