Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 7802 times)

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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #255 on: March 25, 2020, 04:44:28 PM »
The thing is, I think we all know that there are going to be some economic hardships that result from this but the truth is that so long as commercial banks are kept viable we know there's light at the end of the tunnel. People are going to want to buy things when all of this is over so the key is figuring out how to help businesses keep the lights on in the short term and keep people employed. The government can and will play a big part of that.

What we can't worry about right now are things like stock trading which, and I'm using noted arch-communist and money-hater Mark Cuban as a reference here, has long since stopped being about investing in well managed companies in order to reap dividends and has instead become a glorified lottery where people are hoping to get rich quick off of speculation and volume dealing.

We know how to help rebuild an economy after a sharp crash. We can't bring thousands of people back to life.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #256 on: March 25, 2020, 04:50:40 PM »
It's really baffling to me that the guy is polling with a 60% approval rating on how he is handling COVID-19.

People are so used to him being completely incompetent, that even the slightest bit of seemingly competent behaviour looks like good.

He's done a terrible job overall, but, he has made some of the decisions people recognize as being vital. He just seemingly refuses to be able to have the last for long enough, or to not give terrible advice/guidance on top of them.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #256 on: March 25, 2020, 04:50:40 PM »

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #257 on: March 25, 2020, 04:52:20 PM »

I also think, to some extent, it's because right now a lot of this is an abstraction. The numbers are relatively low of infected/casualties and so people are just seeing the response and not the consequences.
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Offline WAYNEINIONA

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #258 on: March 25, 2020, 07:37:30 PM »

I also think, to some extent, it's because right now a lot of this is an abstraction. The numbers are relatively low of infected/casualties and so people are just seeing the response and not the consequences.

 Your right. Just wait for two weeks when the U.S. is looking like Italy and see what his approval rating is.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #259 on: March 25, 2020, 07:46:00 PM »

I also think, to some extent, it's because right now a lot of this is an abstraction. The numbers are relatively low of infected/casualties and so people are just seeing the response and not the consequences.

 Your right. Just wait for two weeks when the U.S. is looking like Italy and see what his approval rating is.

Well, I hope that's not the case. I have a lot of friends and family in the States so I hope things there never look quite as bad as Italy.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #260 on: March 25, 2020, 09:28:46 PM »
I really try hard not to present the people  I disagree with politically as being cartoonishly evil but the number of people out there right now arguing that we should be willing to accept thousands of deaths so that damage to a certain section of the economy(and, to be fair, just the financial sector) is contained is really making that hard to do.

The irony is that so many of these same people scream how abortions are murder (though, in a lot of cases, I’m sure that’s just to get votes), and now they’re basically advocating for actual murder.

This guy, on the other hand... https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/us/louisiana-pastor-spell-coronavirus/index.html
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 09:32:44 PM by bustaheims »
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #261 on: March 26, 2020, 01:40:42 PM »
My largest frustration and is part of why we are all in the pickle we are in now, is that not one government picked up on the message's that were being sent out by so many experts like noted Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant who forewarned of this disaster in a TED talk 14 years ago, or like Bill Gates who said exactly the same things in his TED talk in 2015.  Gate's even used graphics that showed what looks exactly what a Coronavirus looks like in his talk, as well as the need to stockpile, huge amounts of N-95 masks, shields, gloves, beds and ventilators.
Strange how we spend so much money on military goods but almost nothing to prepare for the invisible war that Trump keeps referring to.
 
Imagine if the entire world was not scrambling for Ventilators, masks, beds etc.  Perhaps the need to stretch out the bell curve wouldn't have been necessary or SO necessary, as we would have had the resources in place to deal with the outbreak.
Currently we are hunkered down, isolating and social distancing ourselves  while we buy time for Ford, Tesla and other mega corps to manufacture the equipment we need to save society and buy ourselves some time to develop a vaccine or some other treatment to stem the tide of this scourge.
I am so pissed that we were not prepared in Canada.  Now we are spending almost 90 billion to bail ourselves out.  Perhaps 5 or 6 billion spent over the last 10 years would have spared us all a lot of grief and suffering.
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Offline L K

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #262 on: March 26, 2020, 03:04:32 PM »
It would certainly have been more than a 5 or 6 billion a year expense but yes, we are facing the realities of an underfunded health care system. 

I don't work for LHSC anymore but that is where I did my training.

2018/2019 - 800,458 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 165,824 ER Visits, 388,766 Admission Days  - 912 Physician, 3820 Nurses, 2321 Corporate/Management
2017/2018 - 790,720 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 165,239 ER Visits, 370,310 Admission Days  - 912 Physician, 3744 Nurses, 2297 Corporate/Management
2016/2017 - 787,709 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 163,369 ER Visits, 350,514 Admission Days  - 888 Physician, 3588 Nurses, 2277 Corporate/Management
2015/2016 - 773,084 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 159,028 ER Visits, 328,032 Admission Days  - 873 Physician, 3622 Nurses, 2302 Corporate/Management
2014/2015 - 753,630 Ambulatory/Outpatient Visits, 150,649 ER Visits, 357,808 Admission Days  - 858 Physician, 3730 Nurses, 2416 Corporate/Management

Volumes go up, patient sickness goes up, support line staff plateau.  We have been chipping away at our health care over the last decade.  Cuts to outpatient services.  Paltry mental health supports.  Limits to beds.  Having hospitals running at >100% capacity for years with no concerns from the public at large outside of when your loved one sits in the ER for days waiting for an inpatient bed.

We could manufacture 1000 vents today.  The problem is in 6 months we won't really need them.  They will sit idly and fall into disrepair.  There would be a much better approach to having the WHO create an international epidemic/pandemic response unit that could house a mobile ICU that could be transitioned to other regions as required. 

We also could add hundred of beds to the country but we also need to see staffing improve accordingly.  When I started working you would typically have 4 patients to a nurse on average.  Now it is routinely running 8-9 patients/nurse in a lot of situations because of staffing cuts.

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #263 on: March 26, 2020, 04:27:00 PM »
My largest frustration and is part of why we are all in the pickle we are in now, is that not one government picked up on the message's that were being sent out by so many experts like noted Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant who forewarned of this disaster in a TED talk 14 years ago, or like Bill Gates who said exactly the same things in his TED talk in 2015.  Gate's even used graphics that showed what looks exactly what a Coronavirus looks like in his talk, as well as the need to stockpile, huge amounts of N-95 masks, shields, gloves, beds and ventilators.
Strange how we spend so much money on military goods but almost nothing to prepare for the invisible war that Trump keeps referring to.
 
Imagine if the entire world was not scrambling for Ventilators, masks, beds etc.  Perhaps the need to stretch out the bell curve wouldn't have been necessary or SO necessary, as we would have had the resources in place to deal with the outbreak.
Currently we are hunkered down, isolating and social distancing ourselves  while we buy time for Ford, Tesla and other mega corps to manufacture the equipment we need to save society and buy ourselves some time to develop a vaccine or some other treatment to stem the tide of this scourge.
I am so pissed that we were not prepared in Canada.  Now we are spending almost 90 billion to bail ourselves out.  Perhaps 5 or 6 billion spent over the last 10 years would have spared us all a lot of grief and suffering.

I'm no expert, but my first thought is if we could have prepped for a virus like this, aren't there a 100 other things we could be prepping for too?

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #264 on: March 26, 2020, 04:45:01 PM »
I'm no expert, but my first thought is if we could have prepped for a virus like this, aren't there a 100 other things we could be prepping for too?

True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #265 on: March 26, 2020, 05:35:58 PM »
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.

I don't want this thread to spiral outright into politics but this particular provincial government came to power and did away with the green energy tax credit and cancelled a fully funded study into a UBI. Those policies directly spoke to two other serious issues we're probably going to have to face as a community in terms of climate change and the automation of the workforce. They also have smart people giving Ted talks about them and experts telling us we need to prepare.

So I agree. It is a shame that society has seen huge gains in wealth over the last generation and by and large has used those gains in the least productive, least beneficial way possible by diverting as much of it as possible into the pockets of a select few. But until there's real appetite for change to really proactively address the issues on the agenda, I don't know if it's right to pick off one when it's too late and say "See, we should have done X, Y and Z"
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Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #266 on: March 26, 2020, 06:15:39 PM »
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.


I thought I read that they did stock up on N95 masks but I could be mistaken. I'll see what I can find.

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #267 on: March 26, 2020, 06:17:46 PM »
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.

But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.


I thought I read that they did stock up on N95 masks but I could be mistaken. I'll see what I can find.

Yup, 55 million masks stocked up. They're all expired.

https://nationalpost.com/news/world/ontario-stockpiled-millions-of-masks-after-sars-they-all-expired-as-covid-19-nears-pandemic-status

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #268 on: March 27, 2020, 02:36:56 AM »
Interesting experimental development in the fight against COVID-19.  Largely ignored by the media:


Articles:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8149191/amp/New-York-hospitals-treating-corona-patients-6000-milligrams-VITAMIN-C.html

https://nypost.com/2020/03/24/new-york-hospitals-treating-coronavirus-patients-with-vitamin-c/amp/

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #269 on: March 27, 2020, 02:45:06 AM »
Re:  Influenza (the flu) vaccine not proven very effective on those 65 or older study shows.  Not exactly surprising as researchers awhile ago sounded out on flu vaccinations for older people.

Conclusion:
Current vaccination strategies prioritizing elderly persons may be less effective than believed at reducing serious morbidity and mortality in this population, which suggests that supplementary strategies may be necessary.


https://annals.org/aim/article-abstract/2762506/effect-influenza-vaccination-elderly-hospitalization-mortality-observational-study-regression-discontinuity
« Last Edit: March 27, 2020, 02:47:06 AM by hockeyfan1 »