Author Topic: Point signs 3-year bridge deal  (Read 744 times)

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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2019, 03:00:37 PM »

Eichel, as a comparable, for instance would be at .208 of the cap per point scored in the year before he signed or roughly 40% higher than Marner. Even if you pro-rate Eichel that year to 82 games and 78 points he's still at .170.

But, as you note, there's a lot of ways to parse things. Eichel is Buffalo's franchise 1C. He was drafted just behind the greatest player of his generation. He wasn't playing with talent in Tavares's league. He was injured and production takes a hit even when one's back. And so on.

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #30 on: September 23, 2019, 03:00:37 PM »

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2019, 03:08:24 PM »
Marner wasn't exactly playing with The Goat last season. He did however help Tavares gain a whopping 4 points over his previous season while gaining 25 of his own. Hmmm could there be something there??
I believe I said it when it was known JT and Marner would play together, that it would cost the Leafs big time because he was going to have a great year. It did. As for comparing Point and Marner. It is what it is.
I think the NHL needs to level the playing field with the tax system. Pick the highest income tax in the places they play and put it on everyone cap wise. So while Point makes 6 mill, his actual cap hit is 8.5 kind of deal. Don't know if it's possible but it would remove the imbalance and takeaway any advantages of a no or low tax state.

Offline L K

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #32 on: September 23, 2019, 03:11:08 PM »
Marner wasn't exactly playing with The Goat last season. He did however help Tavares gain a whopping 4 points over his previous season while gaining 25 of his own. Hmmm could there be something there??

He also helped Tavares score 10 more goals than the previous season and 9 more than his career high.

Offline Bates

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #33 on: September 23, 2019, 03:12:21 PM »
Marner wasn't exactly playing with The Goat last season. He did however help Tavares gain a whopping 4 points over his previous season while gaining 25 of his own. Hmmm could there be something there??
I believe I said it when it was known JT and Marner would play together, that it would cost the Leafs big time because he was going to have a great year. It did. As for comparing Point and Marner. It is what it is.
I think the NHL needs to level the playing field with the tax system. Pick the highest income tax in the places they play and put it on everyone cap wise. So while Point makes 6 mill, his actual cap hit is 8.5 kind of deal. Don't know if it's possible but it would remove the imbalance and takeaway any advantages of a no or low tax state.

What should they do with endorsement money?

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #34 on: September 23, 2019, 03:13:08 PM »
But, as you note, there's a lot of ways to parse things. Eichel is Buffalo's franchise 1C. He was drafted just behind the greatest player of his generation. He wasn't playing with talent in Tavares's league. He was injured and production takes a hit even when one's back. And so on.

Right, but do those things add up to 40% more per point? Does that make it a good or better deal that Eichel was drafted behind McDavid?

One of the things that's frustrating about this discussion is that there seems to be a set of generally accepted principles that we all accept like teams should pay a premium to buy up extra UFA years(although it wasn't too long ago that teams sold that as "guaranteeing security") but how much? Teams generally value Centres over Wings and goal scoring over assists but how does that actually translate specifically?

But it's not just deals like Eichel and Draisaitl or a bunch of other historical comparisons I could make(Kessel's 2nd deal was .016 cap % per point higher than Marner, RNH's was .048!). Point's deal has him paid, per point, less than Andreas Johnsson. It's just completely unprecedented.
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Offline Bates

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #35 on: September 23, 2019, 03:14:03 PM »
Marner wasn't exactly playing with The Goat last season. He did however help Tavares gain a whopping 4 points over his previous season while gaining 25 of his own. Hmmm could there be something there??

He also helped Tavares score 10 more goals than the previous season and 9 more than his career high.

Does the goal scorer get the passer points or the other way around? No goal, no assist. I'm kidding, both are important.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #36 on: September 23, 2019, 03:14:33 PM »
Marner wasn't exactly playing with The Goat last season. He did however help Tavares gain a whopping 4 points over his previous season while gaining 25 of his own. Hmmm could there be something there??

He also helped Tavares score 10 more goals than the previous season and 9 more than his career high.
All true. Both definitely helped each other but Marner wasn't getting 94 points last year playing with Bozak or Kadri as his centre.
Someone posted a stat or graph in the past that showed JT was more beneficial to Marner's stats then Marner was to JT.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #37 on: September 23, 2019, 03:16:25 PM »

Pre-Marner, Tavares averaged 33 goals and 38 points per 82 games.
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Offline Bates

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #38 on: September 23, 2019, 03:19:00 PM »

Pre-Marner, Tavares averaged 33 goals and 38 points per 82 games.

And only Marner changed for Tavares? And what were Marner's averages?

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #39 on: September 23, 2019, 03:19:11 PM »
All true. Both definitely helped each other but Marner wasn't getting 94 points last year playing with Bozak or Kadri as his centre.
Someone posted a stat or graph in the past that showed JT was more beneficial to Marner's stats then Marner was to JT.

Marner went from 69 points to 94 from year 2 to year 3. Is some of that attributable to Tavares? Sure.

But....

- His ice time was also up
- His PP time was up
- Scoring around the league was up

Throw in some natural progression and it's really hard to make the case that Tavares accounted for a huge jump for Marner.
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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #40 on: September 23, 2019, 03:25:56 PM »
But it's not just deals like Eichel and Draisaitl or a bunch of other historical comparisons I could make(Kessel's 2nd deal was .016 cap % per point higher than Marner, RNH's was .048!). Point's deal has him paid, per point, less than Andreas Johnsson. It's just completely unprecedented.

It is also a three-year bridge and, at 8.3% of the cap, is probably the richest contract of that sort in the league. 

I think your C.H.% previous season's points formula overlooks the extent to which term plays into the contracts that are eventually signed. It's not crazy to me that you'd only get into that .125 to .175 range if you're looking at long-term deal and that bridges come in at lower percent-per-point values.

Offline Frank E

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #41 on: September 23, 2019, 03:30:46 PM »
That's a very nice deal for me to poop on.

I don't know how Tampa hasn't won a Cup yet lately...unlucky I guess.

This deal was inevitably going to be compared to Marner's, and it looks great in comparison, today.

We can check back in on how good it looks in 3 years from now when Point's to be re-signed. 

Offline Zee

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #42 on: September 23, 2019, 03:37:21 PM »
That's a very nice deal for me to poop on.

I don't know how Tampa hasn't won a Cup yet lately...unlucky I guess.

This deal was inevitably going to be compared to Marner's, and it looks great in comparison, today.

We can check back in on how good it looks in 3 years from now when Point's to be re-signed.

Point would have to sign for $15M/year for 3 following years to have the same amount of money that Marner is getting over 6

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2019, 03:37:42 PM »
It is also a three-year bridge and, at 8.3% of the cap, is probably the richest contract of that sort in the league.

Except that feeds into what I'm saying. How many 80 or 90+ point players looking to sign their second deals signed three year bridges?

To the best of my off-hand knowledge there's just Eric Staal, who got 2% more of the cap than Point in the Cap's first real off-season.
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Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2019, 03:38:50 PM »
Point would have to sign for $15M/year for 3 following years to have the same amount of money that Marner is getting over 6

Not in take-home.
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-Karl Marx

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Re: Point signs 3-year bridge deal
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2019, 03:38:50 PM »