Author Topic: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury  (Read 775 times)

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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2019, 02:25:33 PM »
GuiltTrip, let me ask you this: what do you think a $2.25mil player should bring to a team?

Or similarly, what do you think Hyman's cap hit should be?
It's got nothing to do with that. It's about trying to get similar production with cheaper options. You keep the core together and you have to move players out whether you want to or not. Leafs have to make decisions on who they're going forward with. I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2019, 02:25:33 PM »

Offline Bender

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2019, 02:37:42 PM »
$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.
He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2019, 02:39:52 PM »
I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

I believe you'll see both those guys plus Hyman on the team next season. Brown and the UFAs will be cap causalities. Kappy and Johnsson will be forced to sign cheap 1-year deals to get through the Marleau contract. Zaitsev getting traded, even if we're required to take a contract that's half of his AAV, is obviously going to be heavily explored and would give us a lot more breathing room as well.

With that said, if push came to shove and we absolutely HAD to lose one of those players, I'm trading Kapanen instead of Hyman. Kapanen is going to get priced out of Toronto eventually anyway. We can get him signed to a cheap bridge deal now but after that he's probably looking at $4-5mil after that and with Nylander and Marner ahead of him on the depth chart that just doesn't make sense.

Offline Bender

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2019, 02:42:12 PM »
GuiltTrip, let me ask you this: what do you think a $2.25mil player should bring to a team?

Or similarly, what do you think Hyman's cap hit should be?
It's got nothing to do with that. It's about trying to get similar production with cheaper options. You keep the core together and you have to move players out whether you want to or not. Leafs have to make decisions on who they're going forward with. I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

The Leafs have to maximize value, agreed, but it makes more sense to maximize value by subtracting guys who aren't providing good value for their contracts. If you don't think Hyman is providing value, fine, but their cap hit absolutely has to come into it and you are not replacing Hyman with an option than has better price-performance than Hyman right now. Do you think Johnsson/Kapanen will be cheaper than $2.25m? I don't. I honestly can't believe we've come to the point where we think getting rid of a guy like Hyman is what we're squabbling about.
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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2019, 02:50:30 PM »
$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.
He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.
Yes thankfully we don't have to. My whole point is you can't keep them all because of the cap so if it came down to keeping Johnsson or Kappy over Hyman, money being similar, Hyman would be gone and I'm betting so would everyone else because of the potential offensive upside. You can teach defence. Listen I'm not saying he isn't a good value contract but if you can upgrade a position for similar money, you have to do it.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2019, 02:54:06 PM »
I said IF they want to keep Kappy and Johnsson they need to move money...it's that simple.

I believe you'll see both those guys plus Hyman on the team next season. Brown and the UFAs will be cap causalities. Kappy and Johnsson will be forced to sign cheap 1-year deals to get through the Marleau contract. Zaitsev getting traded, even if we're required to take a contract that's half of his AAV, is obviously going to be heavily explored and would give us a lot more breathing room as well.

With that said, if push came to shove and we absolutely HAD to lose one of those players, I'm trading Kapanen instead of Hyman. Kapanen is going to get priced out of Toronto eventually anyway. We can get him signed to a cheap bridge deal now but after that he's probably looking at $4-5mil after that and with Nylander and Marner ahead of him on the depth chart that just doesn't make sense.
I hope you're right that we can dump the guys we really need to. I def think Brown is a no brainer. He has to go.
As for Kappy wanting 4-5 after his bridge deal. Don't you think Hyman will be asking for similar when he's up in a few years? What really sucks about all of this is that the Leafs have done everything right but they won't be able to keep all the good players they've drafted/developed. Stupid salary cap.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2019, 02:58:37 PM »
I honestly can't believe we've come to the point where we think getting rid of a guy like Hyman is what we're squabbling about.
No squabble. No nastiness, just discussing differences. Nothing wrong with that. The realities of a salary cap make decisions very hard wouldn't you say?

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2019, 03:25:16 PM »
As for Kappy wanting 4-5 after his bridge deal. Don't you think Hyman will be asking for similar when he's up in a few years? What really sucks about all of this is that the Leafs have done everything right but they won't be able to keep all the good players they've drafted/developed. Stupid salary cap.

We still have two guaranteed seasons of what I'd consider solid value left in Hyman, and nobody in my eyes who could conceivable replace his role on the team (which again we might disagree on, but I believe it's a top-6 forward role + top PKer). With Kappy the difference is he likely will only have 1 year of an affordable AAV left and his role is smaller and therefore more easily replaced. Like I disagree that Moore could replace Hyman, but I think the likelihood of say Bracco replacing Kapanen is a little higher.

As for your second point, I was just thinking the other day about how I wish the NHL never got rid of their compensatory picks for free agents. It just seemed like a system that nobody would really be opposed to.

Offline freer

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2019, 02:06:11 AM »
$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.
He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.

No IMO it is signing Nylander to 6.9 mil. Again IMO was totally awful most night. They should of just let him sit.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2019, 05:04:00 AM »
I like Zach Hyman.  Works hard, is among one of the game’s better forecheckers, and the fact that he played through an ACL injury is testament to his on-ice character.

Definitely a keeper.

Offline Bender

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2019, 08:58:59 AM »
$2.25mil for a guy who scores 20 goals and 40 points, plays on our match-up/top line, and is our most important penalty killer is a down right steal. Hyman's not going anywhere for cap relief.
He got 40 points playing with superstars and our pk isn't anything to write home about with him. You should expect more from a guy playing with Marner and JT. I do. Leafs are up against the cap, they need to shed money or it's goodbye Kappy and Johnsson. I'm keeping them over Hyman and Brown. If the 4 are interchangeable contract wise, who are you keeping? Money has to come from somewhere to pay those 2  and you can't keep everyone whether they're good value or not. It's easy to say trade Zaitsev and Marleau but realistically that's not happening without taking some crap back.

This isn't a decision we have to make, thankfully, but I don't think Hyman is the difference between signing and not signing Kapanen/Johnsson.

No IMO it is signing Nylander to 6.9 mil. Again IMO was totally awful most night. They should of just let him sit.

You would rather have Nylander than be in a contractual stalemate forever, and you would be crazy to think fans wouldn't be screaming at Dubas for not having Nylander and losing a 7 game series. Nylander will round out and if he doesn't someone will take him to find his game in a trade. Really the issue is the deal should've been done before the start of the season, especially if the number in December barely budged from July.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2019, 09:01:10 AM by Bender »
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Offline Arn

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2019, 03:24:06 PM »
I like Zach Hyman.  Works hard, is among one of the game’s better forecheckers, and the fact that he played through an ACL injury is testament to his on-ice character.

Definitely a keeper.

No he's not, he's a forward
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2019, 03:26:49 PM »
No IMO it is signing Nylander to 6.9 mil.

The difference between signing Nylander to the deal he signed and what even the most negative person on Nylander wanted him to sign for was around a million dollars. Maybe 1.4 for the legitimately knuckleheaded.

1.4 million isn't going to sign either player.
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Offline Strangelove

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2019, 05:34:44 PM »
Hyman is a serviceable third liner that is vastly overused by Babcock. His penalty kill skills are pretty easily replaceable.

I don't mind him at 2.25 but wish his role could be reduced in favour of actual top six players.

I don't think shedding his salary does much for the team's salary predicament, though. Having 11 million tied up in two borderline NHLers in Zaitsev and Marleau hurts. The (small) overpayments for Matthews, Tavares and Nylander also kind of hurt.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2019, 05:54:57 PM »
Hyman is a serviceable third liner that is vastly overused by Babcock. His penalty kill skills are pretty easily replaceable.

I don't mind him at 2.25 but wish his role could be reduced in favour of actual top six players.

I don't think shedding his salary does much for the team's salary predicament, though. Having 11 million tied up in two borderline NHLers in Zaitsev and Marleau hurts. The (small) overpayments for Matthews, Tavares and Nylander also kind of hurt.
Agreed but his 2.25 mill off the books would still save us cap as he'd be replaced by an under a mill player. Add another mill by trading Brown. Hyman is a good worker/checker but I think he's easily replaced for cheaper.

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Re: Hyman out 6 months with ACL injury
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2019, 05:54:57 PM »