Author Topic: Mitch Marner: what now?  (Read 36003 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1470 on: August 20, 2019, 04:24:20 PM »

Arbitration isn't really a solution either as besides it being an adversarial process that teams/players don't really like, you'd either have to make it so that RFA's could use it to compare themselves to UFA's to get a fair sense of their market value or keep it so RFA's could only compare themselves to other RFA's which is a dead market and basically kills the appeal of arbitration for players. This isn't to say it couldn't be an issue in the next CBA but if it is it will be pretty contentious depending on the parameters being set.

Remember, there were a lot of people during the Nylander negotiations who said that when looking at the Eichel or Draisaitl deals that it wasn't fair to expect teams to be bound by bad decisions other teams had made. Arbitration basically makes that unavoidable.
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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1470 on: August 20, 2019, 04:24:20 PM »

Offline disco

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1471 on: August 20, 2019, 06:50:00 PM »

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1472 on: August 20, 2019, 07:04:01 PM »

Offline herman

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1473 on: August 21, 2019, 12:15:26 AM »

Because the Leafs committed to using LTIR, it will be impossible for the Leafs to sign Marner to anything more than ~10.5M AAV deeper into the season because of the pro-rated first year cap hit exceeding our LTIR room.

Because he also has no intention of playing outside of Toronto and no one is willing to offer a mind changing amount in addition to the 4 1sts, the only thing we are waiting for is how many years Marner will sign at the close of pre-season.

Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1474 on: August 21, 2019, 09:01:22 AM »

Because the Leafs committed to using LTIR, it will be impossible for the Leafs to sign Marner to anything more than ~10.5M AAV deeper into the season because of the pro-rated first year cap hit exceeding our LTIR room.

Because he also has no intention of playing outside of Toronto and no one is willing to offer a mind changing amount in addition to the 4 1sts, the only thing we are waiting for is how many years Marner will sign at the close of pre-season.

I don't know if it's completely unlikely that he burns the year.
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Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1475 on: August 21, 2019, 09:03:11 AM »
You've got to think this is going to come up in the next CBA now. Give them arb rights and be done with it.

If multiple guys go as long as Nylander then that might prompt some people towards change but a bunch of guys being unsigned a month before training camp begins isn't going to be a big deal.

Right, I'm thinking about it more if they don't show for training camp, miss games, pull a Nylander, possibly burn a year etc.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1476 on: August 21, 2019, 09:06:15 AM »

Arbitration isn't really a solution either as besides it being an adversarial process that teams/players don't really like, you'd either have to make it so that RFA's could use it to compare themselves to UFA's to get a fair sense of their market value or keep it so RFA's could only compare themselves to other RFA's which is a dead market and basically kills the appeal of arbitration for players. This isn't to say it couldn't be an issue in the next CBA but if it is it will be pretty contentious depending on the parameters being set.

Remember, there were a lot of people during the Nylander negotiations who said that when looking at the Eichel or Draisaitl deals that it wasn't fair to expect teams to be bound by bad decisions other teams had made. Arbitration basically makes that unavoidable.

It isn't ideal but I think it's better than the process we have now. RFAs get arb rights in their second deals anyway and it's up to the player's & team's representatives to make their cases to the arbitrator. Let the rep make the case that another team shouldn't be punished by bad decisions and let the arbitrator make the call.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1477 on: August 21, 2019, 09:14:07 AM »
I don't know if it's completely unlikely that he burns the year.

I would say it's extremely unlikely. There's a good chance there's a lockout next year. Think he'd risk two years of his prime years?

Regardless of what he signs for, he will be making an obscene amount of money and will probably earn more than $20 MILLION within the next 366 days (assuming he gets large signing bonuses.) He's not going to risk that.

He might miss out on some training camp, but I'm certain he'll be in a Maple Leafs jersey on day one of the season.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1478 on: August 21, 2019, 10:25:51 AM »
Maximizing the LTIR:  What Dubas options are, and how the Leafs can get around signing Marner & the cap space.  Excellent article explains in detail.

Complicated yet very much doable.

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/08/19/maximizing-the-long-term-injured-reserve/
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 10:27:56 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1479 on: August 22, 2019, 10:34:13 AM »
Updates from a couple other RFAs:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/ben-kuzma-canucks-hoping-to-get-boeser-contract-extension-done-before-camp-opens

Boeser is asking for 4 years with a $7mil AAV. Similar, but higher than, the deal that Timo Meier signed with San Jose. Since he apparently doesn't know he can just say "no comment" Benning pretty much admitted this was true while also saying he wouldn't be interested in back-loading the deal like Meier did.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/08/15/avalanche-joe-sakic-on-mikko-rantanen

This article doesn't mention what Rantanen's ask is because I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one yet. Sakic basically admits dialogue hasn't really even started yet on the contract. It says Sakic called Rantanen personally recently to see if he wants a short term or long term deal, and that's basically all the communication that's taken place between the two sides since the draft.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 10:36:42 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline Bender

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1480 on: August 22, 2019, 12:09:01 PM »
Updates from a couple other RFAs:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/ben-kuzma-canucks-hoping-to-get-boeser-contract-extension-done-before-camp-opens

Boeser is asking for 4 years with a $7mil AAV. Similar, but higher than, the deal that Timo Meier signed with San Jose. Since he apparently doesn't know he can just say "no comment" Benning pretty much admitted this was true while also saying he wouldn't be interested in back-loading the deal like Meier did.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/08/15/avalanche-joe-sakic-on-mikko-rantanen

This article doesn't mention what Rantanen's ask is because I'm pretty sure there hasn't been one yet. Sakic basically admits dialogue hasn't really even started yet on the contract. It says Sakic called Rantanen personally recently to see if he wants a short term or long term deal, and that's basically all the communication that's taken place between the two sides since the draft.

I wonder why it's taken so long for Sakic to start dialogue with Rantanen's agent. It's nice to know it isn't just us dealing with his logjam, and you have to think that even if Marner does sign that the logjam won't just automatically clear, either.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1481 on: August 22, 2019, 12:22:51 PM »

So for those of you who have had the pleasure of not knowing anything about this, Dave Bolland's spent the past couple days ferociously arguing with Leafs fans on twitter about how Marner is more valuable than Matthews. Like, it's been weird. Dozens and dozens of tweets about the subject from him despite the fact that prior to this outburst he almost never seemed to really post things on twitter.

Initially I just assumed that he just wanted to get peoples attention and be the next Patrick O'Sullivan or something. But then...


I mean I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but that's an interesting connection.

Offline Bates

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1482 on: August 22, 2019, 12:35:17 PM »
I thought I read that the Avs offered several deals to Rantanen during last season with not much luck so kinda stepped back since the season ended. Kinda hard to negotiate with yourself??

Offline Zee

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1483 on: August 22, 2019, 02:23:51 PM »

So for those of you who have had the pleasure of not knowing anything about this, Dave Bolland's spent the past couple days ferociously arguing with Leafs fans on twitter about how Marner is more valuable than Matthews. Like, it's been weird. Dozens and dozens of tweets about the subject from him despite the fact that prior to this outburst he almost never seemed to really post things on twitter.

Initially I just assumed that he just wanted to get peoples attention and be the next Patrick O'Sullivan or something. But then...


I mean I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist but that's an interesting connection.

You don't have to be a conspiracy  theorist to just assume he's towing the company line.  Also, his firm and Ferris' firm merged this past summer there was a reporter who broke the new -- DARREN DREGER!

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1484 on: August 22, 2019, 03:06:02 PM »
Well if Marner and company are holding out for Matthews money, Theyd better start seeing if any other teams agree with Bolland that hes better than Matthews, because Im pretty certain he wont get close to a Matthews deal in Toronto.
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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #1484 on: August 22, 2019, 03:06:02 PM »