Author Topic: Mitch Marner: what now?  (Read 36985 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #255 on: June 05, 2019, 04:23:29 PM »
I'm not so sure. If he signs a deal worth 80 mill x 8 lets say, but he signs in Dec wouldn't his first year hit have to be higher in order to keep the AAV at 10 mill because of the remaining days left in the first season? Leafs did it with Nylander where they paid him 10 mill in the first year to keep the overall hit at 6.9. And that's interesting in itself because his actual dollars worth, $45,089,608 over 6 years is actually 7.5+ mill per. Now I'm more confused lol.

Technically, yes, but, as I said, the actual impact on the team's cap will be the same, as the first year cap hit gets prorated to be equivalent to the cap hit in the remaining years of the contract.
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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #255 on: June 05, 2019, 04:23:29 PM »

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #256 on: June 05, 2019, 05:48:32 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

Offline Deebo

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #257 on: June 05, 2019, 05:52:30 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

The 10.2M was pro-rated to 126/186 days of the season so his cap hit 6.96M last year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #258 on: June 05, 2019, 06:05:27 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

The 10.2M was pro-rated to 126/186 days of the season so his cap hit 6.96M last year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker
So the Pro-Rated cap hit is for paper use only and doesn't count against the Cap?

Offline Deebo

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #259 on: June 05, 2019, 06:13:53 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

The 10.2M was pro-rated to 126/186 days of the season so his cap hit 6.96M last year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker
So the Pro-Rated cap hit is for paper use only and doesn't count against the Cap?

The 10.2M/~186 days gives you the daily cap hit.

The daily cap hit X the number of days the player is on the roster is the amount the player counts for on the cap.

It's not that it doesn't count, the full year cap hit is just grossed up to the point where the daily cap hit X by the days remaining in the season make the cap hit equal in all years of the contract.

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #260 on: June 05, 2019, 06:40:31 PM »
Got ya, I think lol. Thx Deebo and Busta too.

Offline Deebo

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #261 on: June 05, 2019, 07:24:00 PM »
Got ya, I think lol. Thx Deebo and Busta too.

There was a lot of confusion about this because the media were talking about a big cap hit in year one followed by a discount in years 2 and beyond so much that it became a widely held belief.

Up until Nylander signed and I started looking at how it worked a little closer, I thought the same.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #262 on: June 05, 2019, 08:42:55 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

The 10.2M was pro-rated to 126/186 days of the season so his cap hit 6.96M last year.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker
So the Pro-Rated cap hit is for paper use only and doesn't count against the Cap?

The 10.2M/~186 days gives you the daily cap hit.

The daily cap hit X the number of days the player is on the roster is the amount the player counts for on the cap.

It's not that it doesn't count, the full year cap hit is just grossed up to the point where the daily cap hit X by the days remaining in the season make the cap hit equal in all years of the contract.
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #263 on: June 05, 2019, 09:09:03 PM »
So the Pro-Rated cap hit is for paper use only and doesn't count against the Cap?

The terminology that's being used most is:
Cap Number: the full average annual value (AAV) of the contract
Cap Hit: the actual hit, which is the pro-rated value based on number of days on the roster x daily cap number.

Normal contracts (signed before the season starts) will of course have the same cap number (AAV) for each year. The cap hits would only vary due to long-term injury or time in the minors, etc.

So, using those terms, Willy's Cap Number for the first year was $10M+ and for subsequent years is $6.9M. His cap hit (ignoring any potential LTIR time) will be $6.9M EACH year (pro-rated down to $6.9M for the 1st year and $6.9M for all other years.)

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #264 on: June 05, 2019, 09:16:24 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

To answer your question, yes, it would be an issue depending on how long it takes. The main reason being that they'd have to pay somebody to play in his place while he wasn't on the team. This would be included in the team's cap number along with Marner's contract.

Offline Deebo

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #265 on: June 05, 2019, 09:34:21 PM »


So, he gets his $6.9 per year, which means he got a much higher per game amount in the first year. In other words, he got his full $6.9M but only had to play a portion of the year.
Willy's cap hit was 10.2 mill last year so wouldn't that be an issue if Marner signed after the season began? Wouldn't his cap hit be higher in year 1 then 10 mill assuming the contract is 80 mill over 8 years?

To answer your question, yes, it would be an issue depending on how long it takes. The main reason being that they'd have to pay somebody to play in his place while he wasn't on the team. This would be included in the team's cap number along with Marner's contract.

That amount is probably just under 500k at most as they wouldn't be replacing him with anyone one making much more than the minimum.

I think it was Leivo that went out when Nylander signed, and he only counted for 303k on the cap.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #266 on: June 05, 2019, 10:28:09 PM »
Agreed that it's probably not a concern, but this is dependent on what moves are made. If Marleau is still on the team, every dollar will critical. With such a tight cap crunch, wasted dollars are even more impactful.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #267 on: June 08, 2019, 12:35:16 AM »
Skinner 8x9 (avg).  Marner's getting more than 10 methinks.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #268 on: June 08, 2019, 12:36:40 AM »
Skinner 8x9 (avg).  Marner's getting more than 10 methinks.

I mean, at the very least, you're not getting a single UFA year for anything under 10.
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #269 on: June 08, 2019, 12:47:09 AM »
Skinner 8x9 (avg).  Marner's getting more than 10 methinks.

I mean, at the very least, you're not getting a single UFA year for anything under 10.

Yeah, I don't know how it all works out in terms of term.  I'd see if he'd go for 8 years at 10 or just a shade above.  That should be a bargain well before the end of the contract comes.  And the evolving situation with Marleau and Zaitsev opens up a bit of space in the short run.

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Re: Mitch Marner: what now?
« Reply #269 on: June 08, 2019, 12:47:09 AM »