Author Topic: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050  (Read 4641 times)

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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #240 on: April 07, 2019, 10:43:06 AM »
No, not quite right.  If we were resting all of our scorers and couldn’t score I would agree.  But earlier posts have indicated the defensive play has been awful.

I don't understand your comment? Of course the defensive play was awful.  We had 4 AHL defenders out there.  What do you expect?

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #241 on: April 07, 2019, 11:25:18 AM »
I don't agree when you say the team didn't fully tear itself down.

It's not really a case of agree or disagree, you're just wrong. They didn't trade Bozak. They didn't trade JVR. They didn't trade Kadri. They didn't trade Gardiner. In all of those cases except Kadri for now, they kept those guys and got nothing back for them. The assets they could have gotten for them would have easily been enough for at least another Muzzin type deal and potentially even more. At the very least you're probably talking about multiple first and second round picks in our prospect base.

you're just wrong

There's the Nik we know and love, rounding into playoff form.  Never change my friend!

I have taken your intemperate remark and run it through StatThruster®, my proprietary software package, and based on that analysis I  concede you are 57% right.  We definitely should have traded JVR and Bozak, but not Kadri (after all he was touted for 18/19 as the 1st-line center of an uncontainable third line) and probably not Gardiner since you would have damaged the very area of the team that needs bolstering.

And the bolded part of your quote is where you are 43% wrong.  Neither JVR and Bozak as rentals were going to return a roster D-man of any decent caliber, and it's hard to see a Gardiner rental trade doing the same.  JVR was returning a 2nd at best, Bozak not even that.   Gardiner may have gotten a 1st but more likely a 2nd.  The only one of the four that would get you a good return (roster player or 1st) would have been Kadri, and that only if he had been traded last summer before he went blotto.

So instead of "at least" a probable group of 1sts and 2nds, StatThruster® projects "at most" a 1st, and maybe a couple of 2nds + lower, based on 1,000 iterations of its Bayesian model, which is widely regarded as unassailable.

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #242 on: April 07, 2019, 11:38:22 AM »
I have taken your intemperate remark and run it through StatThruster®, my proprietary software package, and based on that analysis I  concede you are 57% right.

Well, no, I'm just right. If you want to argue that trading some of those guys wouldn't have been the best use of the asset, that's one thing but there's just no doubt that the team didn't really sell off their assets.

Neither JVR and Bozak as rentals were going to return a roster D-man of any decent caliber

I didn't say they would. I said they'd have returned the sort of assets that could be used in a package for a defenseman.

JVR was returning a 2nd at best, Bozak not even that.

So just to be clear, it's your position that JVR as a rental would have returned, at best, the same as Bryan Boyle or Tomas Plekanec for their teams? Or roughly half of Roman Polak?
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #243 on: April 07, 2019, 11:53:10 AM »
Are you arguing with StatThruster®?

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #244 on: April 07, 2019, 11:59:17 AM »
Are you arguing with StatThruster®?

That, or it's managed to pass a modified version of the Turing test and convinced me that it's actually a really dumb human being.
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
- Sean Doolittle

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #245 on: April 07, 2019, 12:01:14 PM »
Are you arguing with StatThruster®?

That, or it's managed to pass a modified version of the Turing test and convinced me that it's actually a really dumb human being.

* bows deeply *

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #246 on: April 07, 2019, 12:34:20 PM »
Leafs should have traded all the guys mentioned except Kadri.
Unless you think you have a chance at the cup which the Leafs didn't last year nor this year then trade whoever you are going to lose.
Getting nothing back for Bozak, JVR probably Gardiner is just stupidity by Leafs management.
Whatever you would have gotten is more than what you got. Whether they are 1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks etc or even some prospects it's something.
Something that could have been used in an upcoming deal at the deadline.
I don't get losing players and getting nothing in return.
Like I said if Leaf management thought they could make a run then fine.
If they did I'm sorry but then I don't have much faith in them as there is still work to be done.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #247 on: April 07, 2019, 02:54:26 PM »
Well all those trades that didn't happen are on Lou. Gardiner is on Dubas but let's see how everything pans out before we judge him. Gardiner may be resigned, we don't know. I'm sure Dubas has a plan as to who will be coming back and at what cost.

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #248 on: April 07, 2019, 04:40:59 PM »
Well all those trades that didn't happen are on Lou. Gardiner is on Dubas but let's see how everything pans out before we judge him. Gardiner may be resigned, we don't know. I'm sure Dubas has a plan as to who will be coming back and at what cost.

As much as we have harped on Gardiner over the years myself included the defense looked a lot worse with him and Dermott out.
Having said that he's not staying. Easily going to get 6+ and Leafs can't afford that.
That I blame on Dubas because we are going to overpay for all 3 of the young stars that started with Nylander.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Canadiens - Apr. 6th, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #249 on: April 07, 2019, 06:04:33 PM »
Well all those trades that didn't happen are on Lou. Gardiner is on Dubas but let's see how everything pans out before we judge him. Gardiner may be resigned, we don't know. I'm sure Dubas has a plan as to who will be coming back and at what cost.

As much as we have harped on Gardiner over the years myself included the defense looked a lot worse with him and Dermott out.
Having said that he's not staying. Easily going to get 6+ and Leafs can't afford that.
That I blame on Dubas because we are going to overpay for all 3 of the young stars that started with Nylander.

Don't say the Leafs can't afford Gardiner. They can, they just have to shed from somewhere else. Trade Kadri, Zaitsev, Hyman, Brown, Kappy, Johnsson or even Nylander. Lots can happen. If the plan is to keep Johnsson and Kappy, I wouldn't be shocked to see both Brown and Hyman gone. There's 4.3 mill there. Only Dubas and maybe Shanny know what the plan is so while unlikely he stays, it's not definite.