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Coaching and management changes around the league

Started by herman, April 08, 2019, 11:00:19 AM

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herman

#27

Zee

Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 12, 2023, 02:57:32 PMThought this tweet/info from Jack Han is also worth mentioning:

https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1701669871547765070

It says a lot about how garbage spittin chiclets is that they could find a story to bash Mike Babcock of all people where they end up looking like the toxic ones.


Thoughts?

Guilt Trip

Quote from: Zee on September 17, 2023, 04:17:49 PM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 12, 2023, 02:57:32 PMThought this tweet/info from Jack Han is also worth mentioning:

https://twitter.com/JhanHky/status/1701669871547765070

It says a lot about how garbage spittin chiclets is that they could find a story to bash Mike Babcock of all people where they end up looking like the toxic ones.


Thoughts?
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/1703504331205419231

Frank E


herman

#724
https://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1703545276454088717

Jack Han's story: that's fine, no big deal, group bonding exercise.

What Jenner and Gaudreau described, that's fine, if done gracefully.

Asking for and/or taking some guy's phone for several minutes outside the hockey facilities to 'get to know him' by scrolling through his camera roll is outside his scope as a coach. I don't even know how or why a professional coach puts himself in that situation. That's not old school or new school coaching.

Walsh's wording vs Babcock's is pretty much how all those Babcock post-Marner-List statements have gone.
#27

Zee

Quote from: herman on September 17, 2023, 06:16:14 PMhttps://twitter.com/reporterchris/status/1703545276454088717

Jack Han's story: that's fine, no big deal, group bonding exercise.

What Jenner and Gaudreau described, that's fine, if done gracefully.

Asking for and/or taking some guy's phone for several minutes outside the hockey facilities to 'get to know him' by scrolling through his camera roll is outside his scope as a coach. I don't even know how or why a professional coach puts himself in that situation. That's not old school or new school coaching.

Walsh's wording vs Babcock's is pretty much how all those Babcock post-Marner-List statements have gone.


I thought that being humbled by his firing in Toronto and away from the game for a years might make a guy reflect on his past behavior and try to improve, but nope, Babcock will Babcock.

herman

https://twitter.com/wyshynski/status/1703550283823865920
QuoteAccording to a source with knowledge of the NHLPA, it became clear that veteran players like Jenner were having a much different experience with Babcock than young players were having.

What was reported by Bissonnette was "the tip of the iceberg," according to a source.

Public statements are the sanitized versions
#27

cw

I have mixed feelings about this.
This time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

The fact that a coach as decorated as Babcock could be held to account is a good thing. The safety of the players is better for it.

A reputation of coach who has won a heck of of a lot of what there was for a coach to win has been permanently damaged. For Babcock, it is a personal tragedy. For the young players he upset, some element of justice has been served.

It is not a wholesome story promoting the game of hockey in a completely good way.

herman

Quote from: cw on September 17, 2023, 08:39:05 PMThis time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

Social media is absolutely not the 'proper' process for this, but time and time again we've seen the proper procedure generally amounts to everything being swept under the rug. That players felt safer going to Spittin' Chiclets (not even a news outlet), in and of itself, is an indictment of that process.

  • Go to the team: look at their statement. They didn't even check in on all the players. Conflict of interest as well in reporting against their high profile coaching hire.
  • Go to your team leaders: I don't know if they even did in this situation. Each team varies in response. Bergeron's response to the Miller signing was impressive.
  • Go to the NHL: lol
  • Go to the NHLPA: your mileage may vary, but the way this was handled by the PA should give players some confidence in the new union leaders.
  • Go to TSN/ESPN/beat writers: these guys are access-merchants. You can see how many of them jumped to back the CBJ press release and generally turn a blind eye to any skeletons sticking out of the ice. How many of them sat on the Marner-list story until it was 'safe'?
  • Go to Spittin' Chiclets: these guys may be tools and work under a toxic parent company banner, but can't say they don't back players when there's a clear violation.
#27

Dappleganger

Quote from: Dappleganger on September 15, 2023, 08:09:00 AM
Quote from: CarltonTheBear on September 15, 2023, 08:02:51 AMI mean unless there's new/worse details I'm still not sure this seems worthy of this level of attention, but if players were uncomfortable with it they're obviously fully entitled to bring those concerns up the chain.

As long as Babcock didn't take the phones out of the player's possession I think this is a nothingburger. It's been established Babcock has done this activity in the past, with no one saying "he took my phone and starting going through it" and until that changes I think this is weird but not a gross violation of people's rights to privacy. We know people have a vendetta against Babcock and I also consider that in all this.


He did the thing.


Significantly Insignificant

Quote from: herman on September 17, 2023, 09:40:44 PM
Quote from: cw on September 17, 2023, 08:39:05 PMThis time social media appears to have been validated but it is a dangerous process to rely on.
There should be a more discrete way. If they'd been wrong, imagine the potential damages, lawsuits. etc.

Social media is absolutely not the 'proper' process for this, but time and time again we've seen the proper procedure generally amounts to everything being swept under the rug. That players felt safer going to Spittin' Chiclets (not even a news outlet), in and of itself, is an indictment of that process.

  • Go to the team: look at their statement. They didn't even check in on all the players. Conflict of interest as well in reporting against their high profile coaching hire.
  • Go to your team leaders: I don't know if they even did in this situation. Each team varies in response. Bergeron's response to the Miller signing was impressive.
  • Go to the NHL: lol
  • Go to the NHLPA: your mileage may vary, but the way this was handled by the PA should give players some confidence in the new union leaders.
  • Go to TSN/ESPN/beat writers: these guys are access-merchants. You can see how many of them jumped to back the CBJ press release and generally turn a blind eye to any skeletons sticking out of the ice. How many of them sat on the Marner-list story until it was 'safe'?
  • Go to Spittin' Chiclets: these guys may be tools and work under a toxic parent company banner, but can't say they don't back players when there's a clear violation.
Credit where credit is due.  The Spittin' Chiclets twitter brought this to light and ultimately the right thing happened before it got worse.  I think the Columbus Blue Jackets organization needs to take a step back and really ask how this happened.  As you say, if you are hiring a controversial coach, maybe you hire someone for the first month that just checks in on the players.  I guess even then though, the players may not feel comfortable talking about it.  Maybe you just don't let Babcock deal with the players one on one, like ever. 

Carlo on the radio this morning said that as a coach, no coach made him a better player than Babcock, but there was all this other stuff that taints that. 
"We can't change what's done, we can only move on." - Arthur Morgan

Guilt Trip

#731
It's been said many many times...Babs is a great coach but a horrible human. My guess is CBJ thought he'd learned his lesson but apparently not. Modano, Franzen, Spezza, Marner and now this will be all that most remember about him...and you know there's so many more.

herman

#732
Apparently the Team, League, and PA were ready to shelve this on Tuesday, after the statements and initial questions asked, but Elliott Friedman reports (32T pod) that players from other teams notified the PA that young players were uncomfortable (especially with that situation referenced above).
#27

archie holdsworth

Something I've been thinking about and may as well throw in. If Mike Babcock is as toxic as has been alleged, what effect did that have (if any) on the very young and very talented Leafs team that he coached?

Would the Leafs be further ahead or behind if Babcock had never coached them? An unanswerable question, but feel free to speculate.

4EVRLEAFAN

I get who we're talking about, but I sit here having watched the podcasts, read the posts and for whatever reason something just doesn't feel right. Can't stand the guy but I just don't feel right about this.