Author Topic: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock  (Read 4186 times)

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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #105 on: April 25, 2019, 12:07:03 PM »
Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.
Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #105 on: April 25, 2019, 12:07:03 PM »

Offline Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #106 on: April 25, 2019, 12:10:56 PM »
Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.
Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.


Cassidy seemed like the desperate coach trying everything to win, as if his job was on the line and he'd never won a round before. All those changes he did game in game out like you mentioned, and Babcock basically stuck to the same formula he followed all season.  It was just such a stark contrast in coaching philosophy

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #107 on: April 25, 2019, 12:33:10 PM »
We got killed on depth (an area of strength) because the other team was willing to use what it had regularly and explore those potential strengths.

Is it though? Last year in game 7 against the Bruins our 4th line was JVR-Bozak-Kapanen. And we still had 3 legitimate NHLers in the pressbox in Komarov, Leivo, and Martin.
Hard to say really. I think we might have had more depth but our top lines were much stronger this year. There really isn't a top line on that team looking back. Even with JT we were lacking depth at centre because of the Kadri suspension this year. Kadri in moves Willy to the wing and Brown down to the 4th line which in itself is a minus because Ennis and Moore both played better then him. Definitely need an upgrade at the 4th centre spot.
                       
Hyman Matthews Brown vs  Johnsson Matthews Kappy
Marleau Kadri Marner   vs    Hyman Tavares Marner
Johnsson Plekanec Nylander  vs  Marleau Nylander Brown     
JVR Bozak Kappy   vs  Ennis Goat Moore                 

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #108 on: April 25, 2019, 12:45:05 PM »
Babcock by all accounts seemed rattled in the post game press conference. I wonder if his 100% confidence in his own ideas and ways has finally taken a much needed hit. If he's as progressive as some say he is then he should be open to listening to other people's opinions and maybe realize he has to change his ways. Cassidy ran circles around him in this series, if Babcock doesn't learn from this he's a lost cause.
Even Brian Burke criticized him yesterday on Tim and Sid for some of his decisions. Cassidy outcoached him by a mile. His number 1 line struggles, he moves Pasta. Babs did nothing. He moved guys in and out of the line up, Babs did nothing. It was almost like Babs was just hoping the 3rd and 4th lines wouldn't get scored on and that would be success. Rosen should have been playing instead of Jake who could barely skate out there. Moore would have been an upgrade over Hyman who clearly wasn't getting it done on the forecheck anymore. The list goes on and on of all the obvious bad decisions he made. I really believe there will be some raised voices when Dubas, Shanny and Babs sit down.


Cassidy seemed like the desperate coach trying everything to win, as if his job was on the line and he'd never won a round before. All those changes he did game in game out like you mentioned, and Babcock basically stuck to the same formula he followed all season.  It was just such a stark contrast in coaching philosophy
For sure. Cassidy recognized things weren't working and changed them up fast. He didn't wait. It was like Babs was just hoping the talent would win it and it almost did. This loss could end up being a blessing for the team to move forward especially in coaching philosophy. Team needs better PK and PP. I read that the Bruins were shocked that our PP didn't play more. Funny, even they saw it.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #109 on: April 25, 2019, 12:50:36 PM »
Hard to say really. I think we might have had more depth but our top lines were much stronger this year. There really isn't a top line on that team looking back. Even with JT we were lacking depth at centre because of the Kadri suspension this year. Kadri in moves Willy to the wing and Brown down to the 4th line which in itself is a minus because Ennis and Moore both played better then him. Definitely need an upgrade at the 4th centre spot.

Discussing our depth is definitely is a tricky subject because you wouldn't think it'd be an issue for a team with 6 20-goal scorers at forward (and that's not including Nylander who will usually hit that mark). But moving Willy to C just destroyed our wing depth. 5 of our bottom-6 forwards were essentially 4th line calibre players (and that's being generous for Gauthier). I know that you and others wish Babcock changed things around and yeah I wish he did too just to see what would happen, but at the end of the day swapping Marleau/Brown for Moore/Ennis is just like moving chairs on the Titanic to me. Forward depth was a real issue.

edit: I should clarify that it was an issue because Marleau and Brown played down to what was expected from them particularly down the stretch and in the playoffs. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 12:58:01 PM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #110 on: April 25, 2019, 12:52:27 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #111 on: April 25, 2019, 01:14:00 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.
Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #112 on: April 25, 2019, 01:32:33 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Dubas taking responsibility for all that is kind of ridiculous. He's not playing, he's not drawing up the plays. He gets personnel and I don't think personnel really was the main glaring problem in this series.
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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #113 on: April 25, 2019, 01:34:11 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.

Dubas taking responsibility for all that is kind of ridiculous. He's not playing, he's not drawing up the plays. He gets personnel and I don't think personnel really was the main glaring problem in this series.
It just shows he's a stand up guy, unlike our coach who deflects.

Offline Zee

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Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #114 on: April 25, 2019, 06:37:48 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.
Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.


Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"
« Last Edit: April 25, 2019, 06:45:08 PM by Zee »

Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #115 on: April 25, 2019, 07:34:14 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.
Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.


Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"
Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #116 on: April 25, 2019, 08:07:13 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.
Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.


Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"
Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.
I'd like to be pissed off making what he makes playing the game he loves and never having to worry about money again. I understand his competitive nature but while Babs is the coach he makes the calls.
If the don't make it past round 1 next year, then Babs will go. I would sh_t a brick if Babs was fired now. Yes I would like to see Keefe at some point but we have to let it ride with a new look D. 
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Offline Guilt Trip

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2019, 08:22:45 PM »
I'd like to have his money too! That's what he did say tho. Coaches deploy the players and determine ice time.
Cherry on coaches corner even got in on the Babs opinion. He talked about how he should leave the guys on the whole PP. Says when they know they're coming off in 50 seconds they are forced to try and make stuff happen instead of taking their time. I can't argue with that logic. I was watching a bit of the Caps game last night. The first PP unit for them was on 1:30 before they changed and OV stayed on after that. Babs needs to do 5ge same with ours.
I also won't be upset if they can Babs. He was bad enough last year putting Brown and Hyman with Matthews but this year he took it to a new level.

Offline Zee

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #118 on: April 25, 2019, 08:26:59 PM »
Holy hell what a contrast in press conferences today. Babcock never once took blame for anything that happened. He always has some other reason for why things went wrong. Dubas said multiple times "blame me for that". Dubas was taking responsibility for Nylander's not greatest season, the PK being horrendous in the playoffs, so ridiculous.
Babs doesn't take ownership on anything. The shots went in...next year we'll be bigger....blah blah. Dubas is a stand up guy.


Stand up guy or not it was a bit over the top. I've never once heard a gm take blame for an underperforming penalty kill, that's 100% on coaching, it just sounded like he was trying too hard to take bullets for everything.

It was interesting when asked if Babcock was back as coach that he said "Shanahan has to evaluate me first before I can make those types of evaluations"
Dubas is a smart guy and I love that response. If I was basing things off the playoffs and the way both he and Dubas answered to the media, I'd fire Babs. He's not going to change. Even the players apologized. Fact is everyone did but Babs. I also found Matthews response interesting when asked about ice time. He looked pissed off to me and just said I don't deploy the players. That's the coaches job.
I'd like to be pissed off making what he makes playing the game he loves and never having to worry about money again. I understand his competitive nature but while Babs is the coach he makes the calls.
If the don't make it past round 1 next year, then Babs will go. I would sh_t a brick if Babs was fired now. Yes I would like to see Keefe at some point but we have to let it ride with a new look D.


Based on Babcock's answers today what faith have you that he would do anything differently next season? His answer to everything is "we need better players". Sorry Babs but you're not assembling a team Canada worthy roster with the salary cap, it's time to actually coach the roster you have and get the most out of it. That means playing your best players more and in situations where it's warranted.

Offline herman

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Re: Playing The "What If" Game Re: Mike Babcock
« Reply #119 on: April 25, 2019, 08:31:17 PM »