Author Topic: Coach Mike Babcock  (Read 1309 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 06:24:37 PM »
We've seen examples of coaches ousted when expectations aren't in line with what management thinks, even if the team is playing relatively well.  2 come to mind both from Pittsburgh -- Michel Therrien loses in the Stanley Cup final one year, Pittsburgh gets off to a slow start the following season, he's canned and replaced mid season with Dan Bylsma and Pens win Cup that same season.  Then, again in Pitt, Mike Johnston loses in first round of playoffs, Pens get off to slow start (actually over .500) the following season and he's fired for Mike Sullivan who then goes on to win back to back Cups.

But again, were those guys fired because they weren't meeting expectations or were they fired because there were actual problems that needed solving?

Even if you wanted to attribute those turnarounds to the coaches it seems to me that those turnarounds are indications of the latter.
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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 06:24:37 PM »

Offline Zee

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 07:07:03 PM »
We've seen examples of coaches ousted when expectations aren't in line with what management thinks, even if the team is playing relatively well.  2 come to mind both from Pittsburgh -- Michel Therrien loses in the Stanley Cup final one year, Pittsburgh gets off to a slow start the following season, he's canned and replaced mid season with Dan Bylsma and Pens win Cup that same season.  Then, again in Pitt, Mike Johnston loses in first round of playoffs, Pens get off to slow start (actually over .500) the following season and he's fired for Mike Sullivan who then goes on to win back to back Cups.

But again, were those guys fired because they weren't meeting expectations or were they fired because there were actual problems that needed solving?

Even if you wanted to attribute those turnarounds to the coaches it seems to me that those turnarounds are indications of the latter.
There have already been reports of a "not seeing eye to eye" between Matthews and Babcock. Things can change very quickly between players and coaches especially when things aren't going well. I'm not saying Babcock is on the hot seat, but could I see it happening if the team falls way short of expectations this year, yeah for sure.

Offline Frycer14

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 07:44:53 PM »
There have already been reports of a "not seeing eye to eye" between Matthews and Babcock. Things can change very quickly between players and coaches especially when things aren't going well.

I think Babcock has done a fabulous job in his part of taking this train wreck of a franchise into something respectable. I would certainly hope that would include not kowtowing to the wishes of 19 year olds, no matter how talented they are.

If the Leafs get shown the door in the first round again this year, it'll be disappointing, but I consider this really his first kick at the cat, considering the still maturing core of the team and how they're structured to peak. One could make a solid case that even this year should be more about development than success.

Ultimately, the entire management group has to wear failures. I doubt Dubas is going to be in any rush to take an accomplished coach like Babcock and throw him under the bus, particularly due to the optics of having really nothing on his own NHL resume.

Offline Frank E

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 09:24:17 PM »
One thing about this season is that they'll have a fair bit of cap space, at least it looks like so right now, and that could bode well for picking up a d-man at the deadline, or even a backup goalie if they think Sparks isn't going to cut it.

Offline Zee

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 10:03:38 PM »
One thing about this season is that they'll have a fair bit of cap space, at least it looks like so right now, and that could bode well for picking up a d-man at the deadline, or even a backup goalie if they think Sparks isn't going to cut it.
They'll have one of Pickard or McElhinney, I can't imagine both get claimed off waivers, so someone will be there in case Sparks falters

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 11:08:33 PM »
One thing about this season is that they'll have a fair bit of cap space, at least it looks like so right now, and that could bode well for picking up a d-man at the deadline, or even a backup goalie if they think Sparks isn't going to cut it.

I've seen the idea of acquiring a defenceman at the deadline brought up a few times now, so I figured I'd go over the defencemen who are currently on expiring contacts this season:

Erik Karlsson: not getting traded
Tyler Myers: probably not getting traded
Jay Bouwmeester: lefty, probably not getting traded
Alexander Edler: might get traded, but is a lefty
Zdeno Chara: not getting traded
Marc Methot: lefty, probably not getting traded
Niklas Kronwall: lefty, bad, avoid
Anton Stralman: not getting traded
Jake Gardinder: we have him
Brayden Coburn/Dan Girardi/Adam McQuaid/Carl Gunnarsson/Ben Lovejoy: not going to solve any of our problems

Offline cabber24

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2018, 08:57:14 AM »
One thing about this season is that they'll have a fair bit of cap space, at least it looks like so right now, and that could bode well for picking up a d-man at the deadline, or even a backup goalie if they think Sparks isn't going to cut it.

I've seen the idea of acquiring a defenceman at the deadline brought up a few times now, so I figured I'd go over the defencemen who are currently on expiring contacts this season:

Erik Karlsson: not getting traded
Tyler Myers: probably not getting traded
Jay Bouwmeester: lefty, probably not getting traded
Alexander Edler: might get traded, but is a lefty
Zdeno Chara: not getting traded
Marc Methot: lefty, probably not getting traded
Niklas Kronwall: lefty, bad, avoid
Anton Stralman: not getting traded
Jake Gardinder: we have him
Brayden Coburn/Dan Girardi/Adam McQuaid/Carl Gunnarsson/Ben Lovejoy: not going to solve any of our problems
I have done this exercise as well and have Boumeester circled on my list. Ideal rental candidate. Hopefully, STL is not in a playoff run and he becomes available.
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Online disco

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2019, 10:45:37 AM »
"what? brown cow and patty gone? real gud men. Zaity... cream your sugar!"
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 10:53:20 AM by disco »

Online disco

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2019, 01:19:26 PM »
I don't think anyone can argue the Leafs have two #1-calibre lines consisting of multiple superstars that are at least average defensively. The quote a few weeks ago when asked about ice-time Babs responded that "about 19 minutes is the sweet spot for Auston". Keep in mind that's WITH powerplay time.

I think the average for a top line in the League is 22 minutes. Auston and JT's lines playing this much means an extra SIX minutes of a top line being on the ice. That's not insignificant. Especially in a big game. Everyone gave him a pass in the regular season since the Leafs were basically locked into their spot at Christmas. But if Babs doesn't ride his two #1 lines more often next year and they don't go far I think he's gone.

For the record I think Babs has done a superb job nursing this young talent along, getting their defensive game improved, stamping out bad habits, all of it. I was always 100% with Babs from the start, but I have pause with this one. And I think the brain-trust does too.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2019, 01:20:15 PM »
I think the average for a top line in the League is 22 minutes. Auston and JT's lines at that means an extra SIX minutes on the ice every game that a top line is on the ice.

Last season just 7 forwards averaged more than 22 minutes a game. And I'm not saying that there's a direct connection between the two but 6 of those forwards didn't make the playoffs, and the 7th (MacKinnon) just barely got in. The season before that it was just 2.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 01:22:04 PM by CarltonTheBear »

Online disco

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2019, 01:31:07 PM »
I think the average for a top line in the League is 22 minutes. Auston and JT's lines at that means an extra SIX minutes on the ice every game that a top line is on the ice.

Last season just 7 forwards averaged more than 22 minutes a game. And I'm not saying that there's a direct connection between the two but 6 of those forwards didn't make the playoffs, and the 7th (MacKinnon) just barely got in. The season before that it was just 2.

The centers of McDavid, Barkov, Kopitar, Couturier, MacKinnon and Draisaitl all played at least 22 minutes last year. Crosby, Toews, Giroux, Larkin and Schiefle averaged at least 21 minutes.

Offline herman

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2019, 01:34:52 PM »
I know people were griping about Matthews' ice time for game 7, but weren't the shift counts about the same between Tavares and Matthews? The only reason his minutes came out shorter were Matthews' shift lengths were tighter. Tavares still had the Bergeron assignment operating with only half a Hyman so naturally those shifts dragged longer.

Offline herman

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2019, 01:36:08 PM »
I think the average for a top line in the League is 22 minutes. Auston and JT's lines at that means an extra SIX minutes on the ice every game that a top line is on the ice.

Last season just 7 forwards averaged more than 22 minutes a game. And I'm not saying that there's a direct connection between the two but 6 of those forwards didn't make the playoffs, and the 7th (MacKinnon) just barely got in. The season before that it was just 2.

The centers of McDavid, Barkov, Kopitar, Couturier, MacKinnon and Draisaitl all played at least 22 minutes last year. Crosby, Toews, Giroux, Larkin and Schiefle averaged at least 21 minutes.

Outside of Scheifele (and sort of Crosby, but not really due to injury), I think it's safe to say all those teams were 1 line + poop.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2019, 01:45:09 PM »
The centers of McDavid, Barkov, Kopitar, Couturier, MacKinnon and Draisaitl all played at least 22 minutes last year. Crosby, Toews, Giroux, Larkin and Schiefle averaged at least 21 minutes.

I know. But you said top lines average 22 minutes a night. They just don't. That's the very high end of the spectrum. Also you listed 11 players there, just 3 of them were on playoff teams this past season.

Tampa's top trio played 18-20 minutes.
Calgary's played 19-20.
Boston's played 18-20.
Washington's played 18-21* (Because Ovi plays a ton of PP, otherwise it'd be 18-20).
New York's played 17-18.
San Jose's played 18-19.
Toronto's played 18-20.
Nashville's played 18-20.
Pittsburgh's played 19-21.
Winnipeg's played 19-22.

Those are the top 10 teams in the league. Toronto really isn't out of place there.

I'm all for arguing that Matthews/Tavares should have been out there every other shift in Game 7, sure. But Babcock saying they should be in the 18-19 minute range in the regular season is completely reasonable especially on a good team with depth.

Online disco

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM »
Fair enough, I didn't realize the top lines on top teams were so similar in ice-time. Keep it to the playoffs then. Even a two minute increase for these lines would be, in my opinion, an advantage worth being exploited. Especially considering the drop-off between the Leafs top six and bottom six.

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Re: Coach Mike Babcock
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2019, 02:17:52 PM »