Author Topic: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion  (Read 48973 times)

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Offline herman

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #495 on: November 30, 2018, 06:08:52 PM »
Next time Justin Holl plays/scores a goal...

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #495 on: November 30, 2018, 06:08:52 PM »

Offline Frank E

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #496 on: November 30, 2018, 07:09:10 PM »
I honestly forgot that Holl was on the roster.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #497 on: December 02, 2018, 08:49:59 AM »

I know people are probably not that into talking about another contract negotiation but last night they were talking about the Leafs apparently having some optimism that Gardiner could get re-signed. Apparently the thinking is that a fairly small raise but with a fair chunk of upfront money and term might be a more workable solution than previously thought. They also talked about bribing a team to take Marleau as a pretty workable outcome. Given those two things I actually think the Leafs can do next year pretty well.

It would be tight but this roster would work

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Grundstrom-Kadri-Kapanen
Marchment-Gauthier-Brown
Brooks

Rielly-Zaitsev
Dermott-Liljegren
Gardiner-Oz
Holl

Andersen
Fishbulb

A couple of notes:

- I have Marner at 9.5 here, Matthews at 12, Gardiner at 5, Kapanen at 3.5, Johnsson at 2, Oz at 1.5 and Sparks at 900k. I think most of those are pretty reasonable assuming Kapanen and Johnsson are short term deals

- I also have a 82 million cap

- I traded Marleau to San Jose with a 2020 2nd for a 2019 5th.

- The team is right up against it but if the team was looking to save a million here or there I think it would be around this time to start talking about whether we want to pay Connor Brown 2 million to be the 4th line RW.
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Offline Zee

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #498 on: December 02, 2018, 08:57:58 AM »

I know people are probably not that into talking about another contract negotiation but last night they were talking about the Leafs apparently having some optimism that Gardiner could get re-signed. Apparently the thinking is that a fairly small raise but with a fair chunk of upfront money and term might be a more workable solution than previously thought. They also talked about bribing a team to take Marleau as a pretty workable outcome. Given those two things I actually think the Leafs can do next year pretty well.

It would be tight but this roster would work

Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Grundstrom-Kadri-Kapanen
Marchment-Gauthier-Brown
Brooks

Rielly-Zaitsev
Dermott-Liljegren
Gardiner-Oz
Holl

Andersen
Fishbulb

A couple of notes:

- I have Marner at 9.5 here, Matthews at 12, Gardiner at 5, Kapanen at 3.5, Johnsson at 2, Oz at 1.5 and Sparks at 900k. I think most of those are pretty reasonable assuming Kapanen and Johnsson are short term deals

- I also have a 82 million cap

- I traded Marleau to San Jose with a 2020 2nd for a 2019 5th.

- The team is right up against it but if the team was looking to save a million here or there I think it would be around this time to start talking about whether we want to pay Connor Brown 2 million to be the 4th line RW.

Marleau has to be willing to leave though, not sure if he wants to.  Also he's very popular with Matthews and Marner, so you don't want to cause some sort of strife in the room.  I mean everyone is professional and knows how the cap system works, but if the GM asks Marleau to waive his "in faith negotiated" NMC, he might be pissed off and it could rub off on the younger guys.  You don't want a situation where the players feel like no-trades and no-movement clauses aren't worth the paper they're written on.  Might be a small thing since they all know the situation but still should be a consideration.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #499 on: December 02, 2018, 09:06:40 AM »
Marleau has to be willing to leave though, not sure if he wants to.

This is true. It's why I fake traded him to San Jose. I figured it would soften the blow.

  Also he's very popular with Matthews and Marner, so you don't want to cause some sort of strife in the room.

Well, two things. One, I think that once those guys sign gigantic extensions it's time to ask them to put on big boy pants and deal with the realities of the business. They're more than welcome to take 3 million dollar discounts each to make it work with Marleau but if they're asking for market value then the Leafs are well within their rights to ask them to step up and be the leaders on the team.

Secondly, Marleau's going to be 40. I'm pretty sure they're already preparing for him not being around much longer.

  I mean everyone is professional and knows how the cap system works, but if the GM asks Marleau to waive his "in faith negotiated" NMC, he might be pissed off and it could rub off on the younger guys.  You don't want a situation where the players feel like no-trades and no-movement clauses aren't worth the paper they're written on.  Might be a small thing since they all know the situation but still should be a consideration.

If everyone's professional then, no, I don't think it's fair to think Marleau might be offended by just the question. Players know that they might get asked to waive a NTC or NMC, that doesn't invalidate the fact that they have them or lead them to assume that the other side negotiated in bad faith. A NMC isn't a guarantee that a team won't ask you about a trade, it's just security in the knowledge that the player has the final say about any potential trades. 

Even then though, worst case scenario where Marleau doesn't agree, you either look to trade Zaitsev or you let Gardiner walk and then after next year you take the Gardiner money and look to add on defense. Either way, the idea that the Leafs are going to be horribly against the wall doesn't play out.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 09:09:41 AM by Nik the Trik »
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Offline herman

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #500 on: December 02, 2018, 10:05:31 AM »
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/11/30/leafs-grab-bag-on-auston-matthews-and-the-power-play-the-leafs-speed-linemates-for-nazem-kadri-travis-dermotts-top-four-case-patrick-marleau-gud-pros/

Big write up by MLHS earlier this week and their spotlight on Marleau highlights how Marleau has been pretty key to shepherding our kids.

And his biological kids are imprinting and getting pretty settled into playing their own hockey. I have difficulty seeing him uproot again so soon.

I can see the Leafs making room for him to stay for the full duration of his contract. The anecdotes of Marleau naturally modelling how to spend and treat younger players is not going to show up on the stat sheet, but I can’t see how that doesn’t make a difference in how Matthews and Marner and co. go forward with their big pay days.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #501 on: December 02, 2018, 10:31:23 AM »
And his biological kids are imprinting and getting pretty settled into playing their own hockey. I have difficulty seeing him uproot again so soon.

It'd be a pretty different situation though. He'd be in the last year of what figures to be his last contract. He wouldn't have to uproot, he'd just have to be away on business for 6 months.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #502 on: December 02, 2018, 11:15:52 AM »
I know people are probably not that into talking about another contract negotiation but last night they were talking about the Leafs apparently having some optimism that Gardiner could get re-signed.

Yeah that intrigued me too. If they can get Gardiner signed for anything under $6mil I think they have to find a way to make that fit. If it's not moving Marleau (which I don't think happens unless they win the Cup this season or if they're able to pull an Orpik situation) then trading Zaitsev+Brown should make enough room too. Then when Marleau's contract comes off the books we'll have some extra money to play around with.

Offline Frank E

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #503 on: December 02, 2018, 11:22:30 AM »
I know people are probably not that into talking about another contract negotiation but last night they were talking about the Leafs apparently having some optimism that Gardiner could get re-signed.

Yeah that intrigued me too. If they can get Gardiner signed for anything under $6mil I think they have to find a way to make that fit. If it's not moving Marleau (which I don't think happens unless they win the Cup this season or if they're able to pull an Orpik situation) then trading Zaitsev+Brown should make enough room too. Then when Marleau's contract comes off the books we'll have some extra money to play around with.

I love Brown and all, but if he's the difference between signing Gardiner to something nice and reasonable, well then I'll help him pack his bags.

Offline mr grieves

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #504 on: December 02, 2018, 12:29:58 PM »
I know people are probably not that into talking about another contract negotiation but last night they were talking about the Leafs apparently having some optimism that Gardiner could get re-signed.

Yeah that intrigued me too. If they can get Gardiner signed for anything under $6mil I think they have to find a way to make that fit. If it's not moving Marleau (which I don't think happens unless they win the Cup this season or if they're able to pull an Orpik situation) then trading Zaitsev+Brown should make enough room too. Then when Marleau's contract comes off the books we'll have some extra money to play around with.

I love Brown and all, but if he's the difference between signing Gardiner to something nice and reasonable, well then I'll help him pack his bags.

Yeah, Brown's loveable.... but I think I could learn to love Trevor Moore or Mason Marchment or Pierre Engvall or any other Marlie who can do 80-90% of what Brown does for 30-40% of the salary.

I think they'd still have to find a taker for Zaitsev too.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #505 on: December 02, 2018, 12:57:45 PM »
Zaitsev has been playing better of late.  He keeps it up and I think he's definitely tradeable.  And much as I have criticized Gardiner in the past (and still want to see him demoinstrate that he will not melt down in G7s) he has solidified his game.  It would be great to keep him.

Boy, I hope Liljegren and Sandin are paying close attention this year because they are going to be on the blueline one way or the other real soon.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #506 on: December 02, 2018, 01:32:05 PM »
So who comes out of the line-up: Ennis or Leivo?

Offline mr grieves

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #507 on: December 02, 2018, 01:42:51 PM »
So who comes out of the line-up: Ennis or Leivo?

Brown.

But probably Leivo.

Offline Zee

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #508 on: December 02, 2018, 01:44:00 PM »
So who comes out of the line-up: Ennis or Leivo?

Brown.

But probably Leivo.

Leivo probably has more offense than Brown but I think Brown will always give a better effort than Leivo.  Like last night for example, it was Brown's hustle that set up the winning goal, no denying that. 

Offline bustaheims

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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #509 on: December 02, 2018, 01:54:26 PM »
So who comes out of the line-up: Ennis or Leivo?

In typical Babcock fashion, it'll depend on who they're playing where, with very little in terms of logic to backup the decisions.
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Re: 2018-19 Toronto Maple Leafs - General Discussion
« Reply #509 on: December 02, 2018, 01:54:26 PM »