Author Topic: Armchair GM 2018-2019  (Read 47935 times)

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Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #570 on: July 04, 2018, 04:37:49 PM »
The easy answer is that I don't think it's hard to make cap space by trading out good hockey players that make a lot of money.  The down side is that you're replacing a predictably productive player with a bit of an unknown.

Sure, but I don't think we can pretend that holding onto the big 4 forwards the Leafs will be building around means that they won't have to make those sorts of decisions. Pittsburgh has had to be pretty unsentimental with their wings over the years and trust they can find guys to play with their superstars on the cheap.

I agree, it's just that originally we were talking about whether or not to worry about carrying over a bonus overage so that next year they wouldn't have to make one of those riskier decisions on the wing ie: Grundstrom in Brown out.

Well, first we were talking about eating into alot more cap space and putting Horton on LTIR- which means most likely having a 3.7M bonus overage.  Now the discussion has shifted to "what about a little bit of overage".

As it stands right now, if we want to keep Gardiner, on say a 6M AAV contract (which would be a discount) beyond this season we are already going to have to part ways with some of our complimentary wingers (Brown/Hyman/Kapanen) and replace them with guys making 1M or less.

Otherwise, we're losing Gardiner and (to a lesser concern) Hainsey and replacing them with our internal options to stay cap compliant in 2019-2020 WITHOUT bonus overages.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 04:41:41 PM by Coco-puffs »

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #570 on: July 04, 2018, 04:37:49 PM »

Offline mr grieves

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #571 on: July 04, 2018, 04:44:16 PM »
I agree, it's just that originally we were talking about whether or not to worry about carrying over a bonus overage so that next year they wouldn't have to make one of those riskier decisions on the wing ie: Grundstrom in Brown out.

Ok, but is that really risky? Or is that just a good move regardless? Because if Brown is the team's 4th line RW shouldn't we be looking to move him anyway?

Besides, 2019-20 is the last season of Brown's contract. I'd want to trade him before it expires for max return.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #572 on: July 04, 2018, 04:47:02 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #573 on: July 04, 2018, 04:53:53 PM »
Ok, but is that really risky? Or is that just a good move regardless? Because if Brown is the team's 4th line RW shouldn't we be looking to move him anyway?

Riskier?  I'd say so.  Likely inevitable though.  Best hope that Grundstrom and Korshkov can kill penalties.


Otherwise, we're losing Gardiner and (to a lesser concern) Hainsey and replacing them with our internal options to stay cap compliant in 2019-2020 WITHOUT bonus overages.

And I guess this is when we say that $2m 4th line wingers is not an option.

Or, you cash a guy like Gardiner in for some prospects that will come in around 20-22 years old and replace Hainsey and Zaitsev, on much cheaper deals.

It's almost like it would have been really handy to have some prospects/picks for JVR and Bozak.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #574 on: July 04, 2018, 04:54:36 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I can get us there if we go with lots of youth and only carry a 21 man roster (and Gardiner signs a team friendly deal).  And we have no bonus overages!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/781759

Offline Frank E

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #575 on: July 04, 2018, 04:56:26 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I can get us there if we go with lots of youth and only carry a 21 man roster (and Gardiner signs a team friendly deal).  And we have no bonus overages!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/781759

So perhaps this is why Dubas may have been in hot and heavy on de Haan...they've already decided that Gardiner is out.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #576 on: July 04, 2018, 04:57:13 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I can get us there if we go with lots of youth and only carry a 21 man roster (and Gardiner signs a team friendly deal).  And we have no bonus overages!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/781759

Also, if you trade someone like Brown for a prospect or pick, then you can replace him with two guys at a lower cost.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #577 on: July 04, 2018, 04:58:52 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I can get us there if we go with lots of youth and only carry a 21 man roster (and Gardiner signs a team friendly deal).  And we have no bonus overages!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/781759

So perhaps this is why Dubas may have been in hot and heavy on de Haan...they've already decided that Gardiner is out.

Yes, if his target price for de Haan was say $4 million (or under) then that gives you some extra breathing room to fill out your roster.  Trade Brown and Hyman out and replace with guys on ELC and you might be able to afford another $4M d-man as well.

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #578 on: July 04, 2018, 05:05:18 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I'm on this boat. He's on the wrong side and going to cash in. Not the best way to spend money. And like JVR, I'm on the trade him this season boat too. Get a return. I doubt they'll do that though. He'll walk in free agency.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #579 on: July 04, 2018, 05:06:36 PM »
Riskier?  I'd say so.  Likely inevitable though.  Best hope that Grundstrom and Korshkov can kill

Yeah it feels riskier to be so afraid of change that you don't create opportunities for guys you've drafted in the 2nd round to crack the lineup until they're 24.
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Offline mr grieves

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #580 on: July 04, 2018, 05:20:40 PM »

For what it's worth I've never seen re-signing Gardiner as a particularly viable option.

I can get us there if we go with lots of youth and only carry a 21 man roster (and Gardiner signs a team friendly deal).  And we have no bonus overages!

https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/781759
So perhaps this is why Dubas may have been in hot and heavy on de Haan...they've already decided that Gardiner is out.
Yes, if his target price for de Haan was say $4 million (or under) then that gives you some extra breathing room to fill out your roster.  Trade Brown and Hyman out and replace with guys on ELC and you might be able to afford another $4M d-man as well.

Except if the idea was to replace Gardiner, then Dubas still should've been in on de Haan at $4.5mx4. That's probably a savings of at least $2m/year on what Gardiner will get nd less term -- still plenty of breathing room. So I have doubts the proposed moves are that closely connected.

Offline Frycer14

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #581 on: July 04, 2018, 05:44:17 PM »
The more I think about the center ice position, and the gaps on defence, the more I think you have to consider moving Kadri.

He's just too valuable to play 3rd pairing minutes, and he'd fetch a ton in return.

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #582 on: July 04, 2018, 05:50:43 PM »
The more I think about the center ice position, and the gaps on defence, the more I think you have to consider moving Kadri.

He's just too valuable to play 3rd pairing minutes, and he'd fetch a ton in return.

Eventually, sure. But not until they have some decent internal options to replace him.
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Offline Frycer14

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #583 on: July 04, 2018, 05:56:11 PM »
The more I think about the center ice position, and the gaps on defence, the more I think you have to consider moving Kadri.

He's just too valuable to play 3rd pairing minutes, and he'd fetch a ton in return.

Eventually, sure. But not until they have some decent internal options to replace him.

Well, Nylander is there.. and if Kadri's production goes down by nature of limited TOI, won't that hurt his value?

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #584 on: July 04, 2018, 06:02:54 PM »
The more I think about the center ice position, and the gaps on defence, the more I think you have to consider moving Kadri.

He's just too valuable to play 3rd pairing minutes, and he'd fetch a ton in return.

Eventually, sure. But not until they have some decent internal options to replace him.

Well, Nylander is there.. and if Kadri's production goes down by nature of limited TOI, won't that hurt his value?

It makes way less sense to pay Nylander 7 million to be a 3rd line C than it does to pay Kadri 4.5 to do it.

Kadri's deal is such good value that I really question if it's possible to spend the money any better.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
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Re: Armchair GM 2018-2019
« Reply #584 on: July 04, 2018, 06:02:54 PM »