Author Topic: Euro 2016  (Read 5996 times)

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Offline Arn

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #45 on: June 27, 2016, 06:15:36 PM »
Delighted for Iceland - they thoroughly deserved that.

I have little against any England players or team, I like Hodgson, good guy. But the way ITV get on puts you right off England. Hoddle claiming Iceland are "stuck in the 80s". English media are stuck in 1966...
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Offline seahawk

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #46 on: June 27, 2016, 08:27:30 PM »
This didn't take long. Hodgson out as England manager. His own #Brexit as it were.

http://www.espnfc.us/england/story/2903448/roy-hodgson-resigns-as-england-manager-after-euro-2016-exit

Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2016, 03:45:41 AM »
This didn't take long. Hodgson out as England manager. His own #Brexit as it were.

http://www.espnfc.us/england/story/2903448/roy-hodgson-resigns-as-england-manager-after-euro-2016-exit

Suprised it took him so long.

Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2016, 03:50:09 AM »
Delighted for Iceland - they thoroughly deserved that.

I have little against any England players or team, I like Hodgson, good guy. But the way ITV get on puts you right off England. Hoddle claiming Iceland are "stuck in the 80s". English media are stuck in 1966...

Yep - the venting should be directed at the players or the manager. To be fair they did play a physical game, and I guess that's what Hoddle was referring to, but that doesn't explain the ineptitude of the players, poor team selection, no gameplan and picking the wrong squad in the first place. I mean, this is what they served up after almost a full week to prepare for the game and sort themselves out.

And if I hear any "tired after a long season" feeble excuses today I think I'll lose it...

Offline Nik

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2016, 10:23:37 AM »

Who was it?

I don't know his name. I don't think it's anyone famous or an ex-player or anything, just someone who's been around doing soccer stuff for the various sports channels in Toronto. He just genuinely sounded like me after the Leafs' collapse against the Bruins. I half expected him to renounce his citizenship on air.


There's a huge amount of anger here. Hopefully the team will be met at the airport when they get back by an angry mob armed to the teeth with rotten tomatoes.

Ah, it's not so bad. I get the frustration, Nagano in '98 and Turin in '06, but got to keep in mind these guys don't have to be there and probably gave it their all.
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Offline Deebo

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2016, 10:39:51 AM »
Ah, it's not so bad. I get the frustration, Nagano in '98 and Turin in '06.

I think the difference is that England hasn't won anything in 50 years. Soccer fans are a little different than hockey fans too.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2016, 10:44:00 AM »
Ah, it's not so bad. I get the frustration, Nagano in '98 and Turin in '06.

I think the difference is that England hasn't won anything in 50 years. Soccer fans are a little different than hockey fans too.

Canada hadn't won an Olympic Gold in over 40 years when Nagano happened.  People were pretty upset then, thinking that sending our best guaranteed a win.

Offline Deebo

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2016, 10:49:47 AM »
Ah, it's not so bad. I get the frustration, Nagano in '98 and Turin in '06.

I think the difference is that England hasn't won anything in 50 years. Soccer fans are a little different than hockey fans too.

Canada hadn't won an Olympic Gold in over 40 years when Nagano happened.  People were pretty upset then, thinking that sending our best guaranteed a win.

They had won best on best tournaments in 1976, 84, 87 and 91 and made the final in 1996. They also had the summit series victory. They lost to the eventual gold medalists in a shootout in 1998. Canada even had international success at the junior level.

England lost to Iceland.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 10:51:27 AM by Deebo »

Offline Nik

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2016, 11:06:51 AM »
They had won best on best tournaments in 1976, 84, 87 and 91 and made the final in 1996. They also had the summit series victory. They lost to the eventual gold medalists in a shootout in 1998. Canada even had international success at the junior level.

England lost to Iceland.

I was 9 in 1991 and not really a hockey fan yet. So when Nagano rolled around really all I knew as a Canada fan was the World Cup loss in '96. While, yes, the historical perspectives might have been different, I was 15 during Nagano and not all of my frustrations were guided by an appropriate historical perspective.
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Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2016, 12:56:26 PM »
Best 5 excuses heard in the office today (#1 is a corker).

5) Tired after a long Premier League season/there's no winter break

4) Players don't give their all because they don't want to jeopardise transfers to other teams

3) Brexit affected tbe players who were still feeling glum

2) Hodgson knew we'd lose because he already had his resignation letter typed out so that must means he wasn't motivated to pick the right team/work on tactics.

And the piece de resistance

1) Our national anthem isn't very inspirational and the players look like they're not fussed when singing it/mouthing the words. Whereas other nations have better/ more motivating anthems and you can see from their players that singing it pumps them up and gets them going.

Offline Nik

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2016, 01:09:45 PM »
1) Our national anthem isn't very inspirational and the players look like they're not fussed when singing it/mouthing the words. Whereas other nations have better/ more motivating anthems and you can see from their players that singing it pumps them up and gets them going.

I agree that's a flimsy rationale for a poor performance but I'm not a big fan of that anthem as far as it goes. You really have to be invested in the monarchy, I'd think, for it to resonate. Especially when there are other compelling options like Rule, Britannia, For he is an Englishman or God Save the Queen(Sex Pistols version)

It was interesting to see Northern Ireland using it but not Wales. I thought the Welsh one was pretty good.

Also, this is a great clip from Deadspin of Steve Mcclaren reacting live to the second Iceland goal:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gC2JjatGwM[/youtube]
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Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2016, 01:16:21 PM »
Ah, it's not so bad. I get the frustration, Nagano in '98 and Turin in '06.

I think the difference is that England hasn't won anything in 50 years. Soccer fans are a little different than hockey fans too.

Canada hadn't won an Olympic Gold in over 40 years when Nagano happened.  People were pretty upset then, thinking that sending our best guaranteed a win.

I'd like to caveat this by saying I support a League Two team (fourth tier of English football, maybe best comparison would be Single A in baseball) who have no realistic chance of winning anything.

The big issue with the national team is the constant let down from poor management over decades and serious underachieving by players that should play better. Individually we're better than most teams and should be getting further in tournaments but nobody has been able to get them playing as a competent team - the obsession being putting the best players on the pitch rather than the best team.

We are tactically naive too and these issues are never addressed - breezing through qualifying and then gutless performances at tournaments have become the norm.

At least with Canada they went on to win Gold at Salt Lake City and Vancouver - they banished the demons.

Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2016, 02:18:51 PM »
1) Our national anthem isn't very inspirational and the players look like they're not fussed when singing it/mouthing the words. Whereas other nations have better/ more motivating anthems and you can see from their players that singing it pumps them up and gets them going.

I agree that's a flimsy rationale for a poor performance but I'm not a big fan of that anthem as far as it goes. You really have to be invested in the monarchy, I'd think, for it to resonate. Especially when there are other compelling options like Rule, Britannia, For he is an Englishman or God Save the Queen(Sex Pistols version)

It was interesting to see Northern Ireland using it but not Wales. I thought the Welsh one was pretty good.

Also, this is a great clip from Deadspin of Steve Mcclaren reacting live to the second Iceland goal:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gC2JjatGwM[/youtube]

Yeah. Agree it's not that inspirational - I'd have either Jerusalem or Land of Hope And Glory if I could (I'm pretty anti Royal family athough slightly short of being a Republican).  The Wales anthem Land Of Our Fathers is very spine tingly as is Flower Of Scotland (which they play for the rugby team- not sure if used for the football though).

Good old Steve McLaren, the "Wally with the brolly" - now he was another hopeless manager. Probably not the best person to be discussing the England team underperforming...

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Euro 2016
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2016, 03:01:54 PM »
This is what I mean.

What makes you think England should really even be taken seriously in these tournaments?

Since the 90's you've won three games in the knockout stages of international competition.

Your country is being lied to by a media that constantly goes on about the Premiership being the best, but the Premiership is about 70% foreigners.

How do you expect the team to compete with the Spanish, German, French and Italians who all have top leagues in which domestic players are the overwhelming majority?

It's a numbers game, there simply are not enough English players playing at the top level to really produce true prodigious talents.

Because the BPL is so popular, that 30% that do make it to the BPL become so ridiculously overhyped by the media that they end up getting games for the national team and they are entirely out of their depth.

The media are selling you a false bill of goods mate, the money should be getting pumped into grass roots football instead of splashed all over European journeymen and their dodgy agents.

Think of the German and Spanish teams that have won major tournaments recently, how many of that England team last night would have a realistic chance of getting in those teams? Maybe two or three if they where at the absolute top of their game?
« Last Edit: June 28, 2016, 03:03:31 PM by WhatIfGodWasALeaf »

Offline Jolly good show chaps

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Re: Euro 2016
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2016, 03:23:46 PM »
This is what I mean.

What makes you think England should really even be taken seriously in these tournaments?

Since the 90's you've won three games in the knockout stages of international competition.

Your country is being lied to by a media that constantly goes on about the Premiership being the best, but the Premiership is about 70% foreigners.

How do you expect the team to compete with the Spanish, German, French and Italians who all have top leagues in which domestic players are the overwhelming majority?

It's a numbers game, there simply are not enough English players playing at the top level to really produce true prodigious talents.

Because the BPL is so popular, that 30% that do make it to the BPL become so ridiculously overhyped by the media that they end up getting games for the national team and they are entirely out of their depth.

The media are selling you a false bill of goods mate, the money should be getting pumped into grass roots football instead of splashed all over European journeymen and their dodgy agents.

Think of the German and Spanish teams that have won major tournaments recently, how many of that England team last night would have a realistic chance of getting in those teams? Maybe two or three if they where at the absolute top of their game?

That's just it though - competing with the Germanys and Italys of this world - I totally agree with you. But we've not done that in these Euros or the last World Cup.

We just never turn up at tournaments after breezing through qualifying. The team doesnt play the same. Theres no doubt about that. These are good players but look at them last night - misplaced passes left right and centre, poor control in situations, no marking, no gameplan, round pegs in square holes.

It doesn't help when the manager picks his favourites and inexplicable teams - Wilshire, Sturridge and Henderson missed big chunks of the season (with Wilshere missing almost all of it). Yet we leave behind Townsend, Drinkwater and Carroll who would have been better suited and given us more options. I'd have had the former two in the team (ahead of Sterling and Alli) with Carroll as the big forward for if we needed a goal in the last 10 minutes and we'd have been a lot better set up.

Agree that we're overrated (especially the so called Golden Generation₩ but that still doesn't mean we should be as poor at tournaments as we have been.