Author Topic: Captain Phaneuf  (Read 58031 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Michael

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1341
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Captain Phaneuf
« on: October 11, 2011, 10:40:11 AM »
The other night (I think it was opening night right after Andy Frost introduced "Your Captain, Dion Phaneuf) Nik pondered whether or not anyone else felt that Phaneuf was being forced upon us. It's an interesting question. I remember a point last year when fans were booing Phaneuf.

Phaneuf was injured last year early in a game in which the Leafs lost and then he was out for another 16 games after that. In total the Leafs were 5-9-3 in those 17 games and they were 32-25-8 when Dion was in the lineup. If the Leafs managed the same win % without him last year as they did with him they would have had 90 points and been just a hair away from a playoff spot.

I often read about what a great "presence" he is in the dressing room etc. and how valuable he is to the team in that way. I wasn't sure if I was buying that or if it was the management attempting to gain the fans acceptance of him. But I am not sure what to think.

I do know that in the first two games of this year he certainly looks like the guy doing it all out there - leading in ice time, getting points, on the PP, has good +/- and he delivered a clean check that most of us won't forget for a long time.

Dion is growing on me as a solid Leafs captain and someone worthy of the C on a team with a history of some great captains.

I am just wondering how everyone else is feeling about "Your Captain".

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 12706
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 10:47:00 AM »
If he continues to play like he has in the first two games, he'll fit nicely into the role of captain.  He's expected to lead both on and off the ice, we don't know about off the ice since we can't see into the dressing room, but on the ice he's definitely showing the way right now.  He's grown on me as captain since about January of this year.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2011, 10:47:00 AM »

Online Bender

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 6565
  • Gender: Male
  • Bender cracked corn and he is great!
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2011, 10:47:27 AM »
The other night (I think it was opening night right after Andy Frost introduced "Your Captain, Dion Phaneuf) Nik pondered whether or not anyone else felt that Phaneuf was being forced upon us. It's an interesting question. I remember a point last year when fans were booing Phaneuf.

Phaneuf was injured last year early in a game in which the Leafs lost and then he was out for another 16 games after that. In total the Leafs were 5-9-3 in those 17 games and they were 32-25-8 when Dion was in the lineup. If the Leafs managed the same win % without him last year as they did with him they would have had 90 points and been just a hair away from a playoff spot.

I often read about what a great "presence" he is in the dressing room etc. and how valuable he is to the team in that way. I wasn't sure if I was buying that or if it was the management attempting to gain the fans acceptance of him. But I am not sure what to think.

I do know that in the first two games of this year he certainly looks like the guy doing it all out there - leading in ice time, getting points, on the PP, has good +/- and he delivered a clean check that most of us won't forget for a long time.

Dion is growing on me as a solid Leafs captain and someone worthy of the C on a team with a history of some great captains.

I am just wondering how everyone else is feeling about "Your Captain".

As a collective I think we overanalyze everything. The guy doesn't have to be a media darling to be captain. Is he being pushed on us? It doesn't matter to me to be perfectly honest.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline sampson

  • Marlie
  • **
  • Posts: 190
  • TMLfans Newbie
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2011, 10:50:10 AM »
I'm starting to appreciate him as the Captain. This will be an important year for him to get solid fan support.

I just don't feel like I did with Gilmour (fav leaf ever) and Sundin yet.

Offline Zee

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 12706
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2011, 10:55:50 AM »
I'm starting to appreciate him as the Captain. This will be an important year for him to get solid fan support.

I just don't feel like I did with Gilmour (fav leaf ever) and Sundin yet.

Will be tough to get that sort of support until Leafs make the playoffs and he's contributing in a big way. 

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2011, 10:57:20 AM »
The other night (I think it was opening night right after Andy Frost introduced "Your Captain, Dion Phaneuf) Nik pondered whether or not anyone else felt that Phaneuf was being forced upon us. It's an interesting question. I remember a point last year when fans were booing Phaneuf.

Obviously one of the biggest differences between Phaneuf and any other Captain the Leafs have had in at least 20 years or so is that Phaneuf got the Captaincy without first endearing himself to fans with several years of all-star performance. It's that sort of thing that made me wonder a little at the introduction. When he was described as "your captain" my sort of gut reaction was along the lines of "Well, no, he's your captain". Deciding on a player and stitching the C on his jersey doesn't endear him to me particularly.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline You're right

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 502
  • 🖕🏻
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2011, 10:58:07 AM »
It's a tough gig being captain in Toronto. There have been a lot of changes and that will require time to adjust to. I think he is becoming more comforatble with the role as time passes.
There's valid reasons for the limited interest. Get out of your basement if you dare. The real world will bend you over.
Adios Chachi

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14579
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2011, 11:08:28 AM »
The other night (I think it was opening night right after Andy Frost introduced "Your Captain, Dion Phaneuf) Nik pondered whether or not anyone else felt that Phaneuf was being forced upon us. It's an interesting question. I remember a point last year when fans were booing Phaneuf.

Obviously one of the biggest differences between Phaneuf and any other Captain the Leafs have had in at least 20 years or so is that Phaneuf got the Captaincy without first endearing himself to fans with several years of all-star performance. It's that sort of thing that made me wonder a little at the introduction. When he was described as "your captain" my sort of gut reaction was along the lines of "Well, no, he's your captain". Deciding on a player and stitching the C on his jersey doesn't endear him to me particularly.

I think you're reading too much into that introduction.  I think they would announce any captain that way, whether it is Phaneuf or someone else.

Offline BlueWhiteBlood

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4146
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 11:12:49 AM »
I'm a huge Sundin fan, so there is a pretty high standard as far as a Captain of the Maple Leafs goes, but I think Phaneuf is going to make a good captain. I know people criticize him for coming in and blasting the music, but there is more to him than that. I think he has the respect of all his teammates already, as judged by the way the team talks about him and he's certainly showing it on the ice since he recovered from his injury last season.

I never worried about his game, as I always knew he was going to step up and improve at some point. I'm still not sure what was the cause of his decline in Calgary, that made Calgary management feel like they could trade him. I'm not convinced it was his salary, as when he plays at this level, he's more than worth his pay IMO. If he can keep up this level of competitiveness, we'll be some happy people at the end of the season, as he is fun to watch on the ice.

All and all, being the captain is really only important to his teammates as I see it, yeah he'll be the face after tough loses and when things aren't going well, but ultimately, he needs to lead by example and rally his mates to improve their game and I think he can do that. I think he is starting to become what we all hoped when we woke up on that January morning to the excitement of a huge trade and believe we got the best player by a landslide.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2011, 11:15:36 AM by BlueWhiteBlood »
BWB

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 11:13:20 AM »
I think you're reading too much into that introduction.  I think they would announce any captain that way, whether it is Phaneuf or someone else.

I don't think I'm reading anything into the introduction itself(although I don't remember Sundin being introduced as such) but rather the question was more about the reality of the situation which the introduction represented.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline AlmosGirl

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 437
  • Gender: Female
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 11:20:16 AM »
It's a tough gig being captain in Toronto. There have been a lot of changes and that will require time to adjust to. I think he is becoming more comforatble with the role as time passes.

I agree.  Will he ever get the adoration that Sundin had?  Probably not, Sundin was uniquely special but I think he's doing fine so far.

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 11:23:42 AM »
I agree.  Will he ever get the adoration that Sundin had?  Probably not, Sundin was uniquely special but I think he's doing fine so far.

I don't know how unique Sundin is in that regard. Sundin, an argument could probably be made, was maybe the least beloved of the last three Maple Leafs captains.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14579
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2011, 11:27:45 AM »
I think you're reading too much into that introduction.  I think they would announce any captain that way, whether it is Phaneuf or someone else.

I don't think I'm reading anything into the introduction itself(although I don't remember Sundin being introduced as such) but rather the question was more about the reality of the situation which the introduction represented.

I seem to remember Sundin being introduced as such, but who knows without any video to look back at.

Sundin seems like he was "forced" on the fans.  Which raises another question: does the captain have to be someone who has universal adoration at the time?  If so, why?

Offline cw

  • Administrator
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 3167
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2011, 11:28:29 AM »
I haven't entirely bought into his captaincy yet. To date, he's sort of been like Rob Ramage as captain - one of the better potential talents on the team who hasn't performed up to expectations or hopes.

I can't fault the team for naming him because they were without a captain for so long. He may well have been the best choice under those circumstances.

Like many Leafs fans, I'll embrace him more as captain when he consistently brings a better performance than he's been able to deliver the last year and a half.

If he plays many of the next 80 games like he played the first two games of this season, that would go a long way to improving my acceptance and respect for his captaincy.

We've talked about how important it is for Reimer to do well. I think the old cliche applies: your best players have to perform like your best players. To date, Dion hasn't really done that - rarely picked as a star in a game during his first one and a half seasons.

As a Leafs fan, I'll support Dion as captain. I just need more from him to really buy in. I don't think that's being unreasonable.

Offline Nik Bethune

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 26919
  • All posts approved by CCP
    • View Profile
Re: Captain Phaneuf
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2011, 11:36:08 AM »
Sundin seems like he was "forced" on the fans.  Which raises another question: does the captain have to be someone who has universal adoration at the time?  If so, why?

Like I was saying, I think the big difference there is that Sundin, whatever else someone might say about him, was unquestionably the team's best player when he was named Captain. That's not a case of damning with faint praise either as he was in the midst of his best Leaf season when he got the C.

I can understand someone not knowing enough about Sundin as a player/person in '97 to have the same questions about Sundin's off-ice qualities that we may have about Phaenuf's but at the very least nobody could doubt Sundin's deserving the nod as a player.

I've been a Leafs fan long enough to know when Andy Frost uses the voice he uses before he expects a big cheer from the crowd. When he used it during Phaneuf's intro it received, I thought, noticeably less of a fan reaction than either Grabo or Schenn got.
Nothing can have value without being an object of utility
-Karl Marx