Author Topic: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home  (Read 15081 times)

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Offline Madferret

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #150 on: March 15, 2015, 10:46:12 AM »
I don't think the contracts will be such a burden. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the Leafs will be able to move a couple of them at least, at the draft or before the start of next year. Also they SHOULD be a lower payroll team for the next few years. They'll need some big contracts to reach the cap floor.

That doesn't really make any sense - on one hand you're saying they'll easily move the big contracts that no team realistically is going to go near with a pole and then on the other hand you're saying they'll need some big contracts to get to the cap floor.

Offline cw

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #151 on: March 15, 2015, 10:49:22 AM »
I don't think the contracts will be such a burden. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the Leafs will be able to move a couple of them at least, at the draft or before the start of next year. Also they SHOULD be a lower payroll team for the next few years. They'll need some big contracts to reach the cap floor.

Right now, in my opinion (and in the opinion of others), the only way Kessel and Phaneuf (for example) return anything in terms of notable talent is if they eat dollars off their contracts. Often, a rebuild gets jump started by flipping the older talent into younger prospects. These contracts constrain that from happening as well as it might have.

The likely effect is it will lengthen the time it will take the Leafs to recover from this mess. It's depressing. We've stepped into multiple piles of crap and some of it is going to stick to our shoes for some time to come.

Offline TML fan

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #152 on: March 15, 2015, 10:50:03 AM »
I don't think the contracts will be such a burden. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the Leafs will be able to move a couple of them at least, at the draft or before the start of next year. Also they SHOULD be a lower payroll team for the next few years. They'll need some big contracts to reach the cap floor.

That doesn't really make any sense - on one hand you're saying they'll easily move the big contracts that no team realistically is going to go near with a pole and then on the other hand you're saying they'll need some big contracts to get to the cap floor.

I said they'll move SOME (a couple) and I didn't say easily.

Offline TML fan

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #153 on: March 15, 2015, 10:56:21 AM »
I don't think the contracts will be such a burden. For one thing, I'm pretty sure the Leafs will be able to move a couple of them at least, at the draft or before the start of next year. Also they SHOULD be a lower payroll team for the next few years. They'll need some big contracts to reach the cap floor.

Right now, in my opinion (and in the opinion of others), the only way Kessel and Phaneuf (for example) return anything in terms of notable talent is if they eat dollars off their contracts. Often, a rebuild gets jump started by flipping the older talent into younger prospects. These contracts constrain that from happening as well as it might have.

The likely effect is it will lengthen the time it will take the Leafs to recover from this mess. It's depressing. We've stepped into multiple piles of crap and some of it is going to stick to our shoes for some time to come.

So what? Like I said they'll probably need money to reach the cap floor. And even if they don't, it's not like you get a bonus for not spending to the cap. The only advantage to not doing that as a rebuilding team is to be able to eat bad contracts, but isn't that what we're trying to avoid?
They're not trying to improve the team right away. Realistically the Leafs will be rebuilding for another decade or so. They really don't need the cap space now or any time soon.

Offline Chris

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #154 on: March 15, 2015, 11:11:23 AM »
I think the contracts (both cap hit and length) and recent performance will negatively impact potential trade returns. Kessel should net the best return as his contract isn't that bad for a guy who is consistently top 5 in league scoring. The question other GMs will have to answer is, is his performance the second half of this season evidence of a downward trend or major character flaw that could negatively impact their teams, or is it just an aberration.

Phaneuf, Bozak and Lupul, if traded, will probably net less than we would hope as compared to if they had better contracts. Management will have to decide if the returns are worth it or if some of these players should be kept around.

I say blow it up, get what you can, and don't look back. Accept that you've made a bunch of bad deals, clean up the mess, and start over.

Offline TML fan

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #155 on: March 15, 2015, 11:14:09 AM »
I say blow it up, get what you can, and don't look back. Accept that you've made a bunch of bad deals, clean up the mess, and start over.

I say that sounds like a darn good idea.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #156 on: March 15, 2015, 11:33:55 AM »
There are a few key pieces here and I believe Kadri, Rielly, Gardiner, JVR, Holland, Komorav are players we move forward with. I think Phil should be given a chance to reset next year. Phanuef, Polak, Lupul, Bernier, Bozak  should all go. Keep Riemer to anchor the kid goalies into the league.
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Offline moon111

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #157 on: March 15, 2015, 11:34:41 AM »
There is limited players available.  Some of these Leafs might not be first choice, but they might be some teams ONLY choice if they want above average players.
R.I.P. Maureen.  You'll always be with us.

Offline Rebel_1812

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #158 on: March 15, 2015, 11:35:20 AM »
Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

Coach’s Corner: Nazem Kadri will leave in two years
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/coachs-corner-nazem-kadri-will-leave-two-years/

This is going to be a painful process ...

Ron Wilson really needs to go away.  I don't really care for the guys who come out of the woodwork an start retroactively backtalking.  Much less a guy who openly admits an axe to grind and references a 49 game stint with the Leafs on his proof that Nazem didn't listen to him.  Wilson's a blowhard.  I don't care for Cherry in the least because he rarely makes sense and is usually wrong when you can understand what he says, but his constant "I don't kick things when they are down" (spoiler alert, he does) would be some good advice for some of the idiots running the broadcast  and sports media.  Where was Wilson before the collapse.  Coming out after the fact, openly admitting a bias and then spouting off stuff in a vague enough way to be impossible to dispute but also not providing anything concrete is useless click-baiting. 

I've lost interest in the Leafs and it took a hell of a lot to get me to that point.  But I lost interest in the Toronto sports media long before that.  Adding more of this useless garbage only pushes me farther away from that.  I have been cable free for a few years now and use NHL Gamecenter with a US account to watch Leafs games.  I don't watch TSN.  I don't go to their website anymore, I'm completely done with the shoddy "journalism" around the Leafs. 

I'm happy to read blogs and catch the stories through those and the message board but I'm just tired of not only real negativity but contrived stories to keep people who have long since become irrelevant in the sporting world relevant.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/3/14/8214559/in-defence-of-nazem-kadri

Tried to watch some last night. I still have cable (though getting close to getting rid of a bunch of it). Had to change the channel - they were so bad, I couldn't stand to watch it. Flipped back to a round table at intermission. Elliotte Friedman I have time for - there are still a few I don't mind. But Kypreos and Cox along with Stroumboulopoulos (on hockey)? I just don't have time for them. Couldn't even watch the intermission. Sad. I did watch some of the Calgary game later to get "my fix".

I feel a little like Ron Wilson with some of my posts. I'm kicking them from the bleachers when they're down. I can handle inept but I can't handle the lack of effort and bundled with that, a set of contracts that are going to be a real burden for some years to come. It's as bleak a time as I can recall and I've been watching for over 50 years. I don't feel like being silent about that. I'm close to angry. So if the media tees off on them a little, it isn't bothering me as much because I think there's some folks who deserve it.

The bigger issue with wilson is how he lasted so long as the coach if he had issues with many of his players.
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Offline cw

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #159 on: March 15, 2015, 11:48:33 AM »
The bigger issue with wilson is how he lasted so long as the coach if he had issues with many of his players.

They say 1/3 of the players like the coach (often because the coach likes them and they've benefited from that with more ice time), 1/3 of the players don't like the coach (often because the coach doesn't like them as much and they've suffered from that with less ice time) and 1/3 are on the fence ... with the coach in his early seasons trending towards against him in later seasons if they don't keep winning.

So Wilson, like many NHL coaches, was going to have problems with a number of his players. That alone doesn't disqualify him from doing an ok job. I wasn't a big fan of his nor did I hate him.

In spite of Don Cherry, Kadri had issues with his game and professionalism. Eakins noted them. Wilson noted them. So did Carlyle. Now Horachek and Shanahan. I have some respect for all of those guys and it's very unlikely they're all wrong.

Offline Tigger

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #160 on: March 15, 2015, 12:15:15 PM »
There was also a note ( which I can't find now ) about overhearing Burke blast him behind closed doors when he was young. I never agreed with Cherry's assessment, still don't ( not the greatest bellwether, anywho ). The issues with Kadri along the way aren't a direct indicator that Nazem will be a problem contractually or performance wise down the road.

As far as Phaneuf and Kessel go, fortunately the Leafs can be patient for a year at least, more so with Kessel's contract. If any contract dollars are retained, it'll be for Phaneuf, but I'm not convinced they can't make a hockey trade without that for either of them.

In Wilson's defence, he didn't entirely throw Kadri under the bus in that clip, he said he's improved physically too, which I agree with and to me he's vastly improved his issues with blueline turnovers as well. What was Kadri, 21 when he was fired?

Hopefully Hunter can be an influence here.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #161 on: March 15, 2015, 12:42:31 PM »
Wilson: ''I never felt that Nazem ever listened to me''
http://www.tsn.ca/video/wilson-i-never-felt-that-nazem-ever-listened-to-me-1.230332

"...if we had drawn a hard line with him and sent him down to the minors and made an example of him early on in his career..."

This was something that caught my ear when I heard it. Kadri played 29 and then 21 NHL games in his first two seasons under Wilson. In his first season he was cut from training camp, called up in November, sent back down in January after 17 games, and then called back up in March after the deadline.

Season 2, it looked like he might make the team out of camp but injured his knee late in preseason. He played in 3 NHL games in late October after he recovered before being sent to the AHL. Stayed there until late December when he was called up and played 16 games before again being sent back down. Then he was called up for a pair of games late in the season.

The team did take a pretty tough approach towards Kadri when Wilson was his coach. That's actually something I remember a lot of people complained about. So if Wilson can't even properly describe how the team handled him I'm not going to put a lot of stock into the other things he says. He's clearly on TV because he has an axe to grind and saying these things makes for good ratings.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2015, 12:48:17 PM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline TML fan

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #162 on: March 15, 2015, 12:46:34 PM »
If I didn't know how Leaf fans are (and know that they know as well), I'd think the media WANTS to alienate its primary audience.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #163 on: March 15, 2015, 03:02:11 PM »
Right now, in my opinion (and in the opinion of others), the only way Kessel and Phaneuf (for example) return anything in terms of notable talent is if they eat dollars off their contracts. Often, a rebuild gets jump started by flipping the older talent into younger prospects. These contracts constrain that from happening as well as it might have.

I agree that they won't get much for Phanuef and Kessel, I think that by moving them out and making a clean break, that will provide the Leafs with talent through them finishing at or near the bottom of the league the next couple of years.  The key for the Leafs is that they need to correctly identify the pieces that are going help them going forward, and moving out everything else for whatever they can get.  Pieces like JVR, Kadri, Gardiner, Komarov, Holland, Panik, and Reilly need to be evaluated to see if they fit with the plan going forward.   

The likely effect is it will lengthen the time it will take the Leafs to recover from this mess. It's depressing. We've stepped into multiple piles of crap and some of it is going to stick to our shoes for some time to come.

I agree that this is a mess because they shouldn't be in this position after 10 years of being a pitiful team. 

However, I don't think they are in as bad of shape as they were when they came out of the JFJ years.  At least they have drafted in the first round the last couple of years.  That always help.  I agree that it would help more if they had some 2nd round picks to go along with those, but hey baby steps.  They have some guys on the farm that look like they will be legitimate NHL'ers in Finn, Leivo, Brown, Nylander, Percy, Loov, and maybe even guys like Granberg and McKegg.


They need elite level talent that can make a difference in a game, and the only place to get that reliably is at the start of the draft as many have noted and lamented over the last couple of years.  Hopefully they can get that talent over the next couple of years.  I mean the thing that most Leaf fans should be thankful for is they finally have a plan that doesn't seem to be contingent on them either fleecing someone in a trade or finding a diamond in the rough in the draft in the late rounds.
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Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Kadri Misses Meeting - Sent Home
« Reply #164 on: March 15, 2015, 03:19:39 PM »
There is limited players available.  Some of these Leafs might not be first choice, but they might be some teams ONLY choice if they want above average players.

This is what I'm hoping for.  Good players just don't come available, or relatively few, since teams generally sign them to long-term contracts.  Seeing players like Kessel and Phaneuf become available, like them or hate them, doesn't happen very often, and I'm sure there will be teams that snap them up.  I just hope that Nonis/Shanahan don't play hardball to the point where they don't move them, rather than can't move them.  Cut bait, get what you can, and move on.
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