Author Topic: The media predictions for the Leafs.  (Read 15060 times)

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Offline Ronco

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The media predictions for the Leafs.
« on: September 17, 2011, 08:27:33 PM »
I read Steve S______ the "Man" today crack writer for the Toronto Sun, but whom should really be writing for the Montreal Gazette.
Are the Leafs good enough to make the playoffs with the new additions in the off season?
His column makes note of the new Leafs.
Then the - and +, s

To make matters short he predicted the Leafs will miss the playoffs again.
Non apologetic.

"Reality: The Leafs haven’t made the playoffs since prior to the NHL’s locked-out season. And frankly, forget all the Brian Burke blather about 1967, missing out every spring is what has become embarrassing here in hockey country. It has gone on too long. And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated. Qualifying for the playoffs is no longer a foregone conclusion in the NHL. The Eastern Conference has all kinds of depth and the Leafs, nine points out of a playoff spot last year, will have to find a way to be better than Montreal and the Rangers and Carolina and New Jersey, and reinvigorated Winnipeg, and quietly emerging Islanders team. Being eighth now is an accomplishment. And no sure thing."

I hope the Leafs make him eat his words.



Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2011, 09:58:57 PM »
I do too but it's hard to argue with his reasoning.  A lot has to go right for us to make the playoffs.

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2011, 02:58:14 AM »
I read Steve S______ the "Man" today crack writer for the Toronto Sun, but whom should really be writing for the Montreal Gazette.
Are the Leafs good enough to make the playoffs with the new additions in the off season?
His column makes note of the new Leafs.
Then the - and +, s

To make matters short he predicted the Leafs will miss the playoffs again.
Non apologetic.

"Reality: The Leafs haven’t made the playoffs since prior to the NHL’s locked-out season. And frankly, forget all the Brian Burke blather about 1967, missing out every spring is what has become embarrassing here in hockey country. It has gone on too long. And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated. Qualifying for the playoffs is no longer a foregone conclusion in the NHL. The Eastern Conference has all kinds of depth and the Leafs, nine points out of a playoff spot last year, will have to find a way to be better than Montreal and the Rangers and Carolina and New Jersey, and reinvigorated Winnipeg, and quietly emerging Islanders team. Being eighth now is an accomplishment. And no sure thing."

I hope the Leafs make him eat his words.



Not necessarily an off-beat assessment a la Simmons.  Should the Islanders, Jets, Devils, Hurricanes, and etc., have better seasons than last year for themselves, the Leafs are going to have their work cut out for them.


I believe, though, regardless of what Steve Simmons spews out, that the possibility of a Leaf playoff spot, be it eighth, remains within reach, and not a very distant one.  :)
« Last Edit: September 18, 2011, 03:02:10 AM by hockeyfan1 »

Offline Potvin29

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2011, 05:41:18 AM »
I read Steve S______ the "Man" today crack writer for the Toronto Sun, but whom should really be writing for the Montreal Gazette.
Are the Leafs good enough to make the playoffs with the new additions in the off season?
His column makes note of the new Leafs.
Then the - and +, s

To make matters short he predicted the Leafs will miss the playoffs again.
Non apologetic.

"Reality: The Leafs haven’t made the playoffs since prior to the NHL’s locked-out season. And frankly, forget all the Brian Burke blather about 1967, missing out every spring is what has become embarrassing here in hockey country. It has gone on too long. And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated. Qualifying for the playoffs is no longer a foregone conclusion in the NHL. The Eastern Conference has all kinds of depth and the Leafs, nine points out of a playoff spot last year, will have to find a way to be better than Montreal and the Rangers and Carolina and New Jersey, and reinvigorated Winnipeg, and quietly emerging Islanders team. Being eighth now is an accomplishment. And no sure thing."

I hope the Leafs make him eat his words.

I had to laugh at that column, with this gem of analysis:

Quote
Be-Leaf: Liles will make the Leafs power play better.

Reality: Maybe he will. Maybe he won’t.

Offline princedpw

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2011, 01:56:38 AM »
It is this kind of sentence that is irritating and obviously untrue:

> And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated.

The leafs haven't made the playoffs since the lockout, true, but no one has celebrated any of their recent seasons.

Offline Zee

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2011, 09:20:22 AM »
Media here never believes a team will do worse than the season before, unless of course they're talking about the Leafs.   So the Leafs had 85 points last year, but I suppose the roster is worse than last season so he's predicting fewer than 85 points this year?

What about the teams that were ahead of us?  Carolina, Rangers, Buffalo and Montreal will all do better than the season before?  Who's to say one or more of those teams won't have brutal seasons?  What if Miller and Price get injured/have off years?  What if all of Buffalo's new guys don't mesh? 

It's easy for Simmons to say the Leafs haven't improved at all, but he just takes it as gospel that all other teams around the Leafs are suddenly better?  Let's see what happens first before we go making those types of statements huh Steve?

Offline Bender

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2011, 09:44:52 AM »
I read Steve S______ the "Man" today crack writer for the Toronto Sun, but whom should really be writing for the Montreal Gazette.
Are the Leafs good enough to make the playoffs with the new additions in the off season?
His column makes note of the new Leafs.
Then the - and +, s

To make matters short he predicted the Leafs will miss the playoffs again.
Non apologetic.

"Reality: The Leafs haven’t made the playoffs since prior to the NHL’s locked-out season. And frankly, forget all the Brian Burke blather about 1967, missing out every spring is what has become embarrassing here in hockey country. It has gone on too long. And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated. Qualifying for the playoffs is no longer a foregone conclusion in the NHL. The Eastern Conference has all kinds of depth and the Leafs, nine points out of a playoff spot last year, will have to find a way to be better than Montreal and the Rangers and Carolina and New Jersey, and reinvigorated Winnipeg, and quietly emerging Islanders team. Being eighth now is an accomplishment. And no sure thing."

I hope the Leafs make him eat his words.

I had to laugh at that column, with this gem of analysis:

Quote
Be-Leaf: Liles will make the Leafs power play better.

Reality: Maybe he will. Maybe he won’t.

Jeez. By that logic: Will I be hit by a bus tomorrow? It's possible. Will I get fired tomorrow? It's possible.

Almost anything is bloody possible. Anyway, yes, the team might not get it done this year, but they've addressed the coaching staff, addressed weak D, addressed depth on the forwards, addressed a first line centre. I don't understand why every other team is given the benefit of the doubt going forward that they could possibly improve but the Leafs aren't.

This is hack writing at its finest. At least at one point he used some kind of flawed critical thinking and logic to back up his points, but now his analysis is: Things could happen.

A high schooler could come up with a premise and argue for it better than Simmons. What a joke.
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Offline Nik

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2011, 10:15:06 AM »
It's easy for Simmons to say the Leafs haven't improved at all, but he just takes it as gospel that all other teams around the Leafs are suddenly better?  Let's see what happens first before we go making those types of statements huh Steve?

He should see what happens first before he makes his predictions?
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Offline Zee

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2011, 10:27:20 AM »
It's easy for Simmons to say the Leafs haven't improved at all, but he just takes it as gospel that all other teams around the Leafs are suddenly better?  Let's see what happens first before we go making those types of statements huh Steve?

He should see what happens first before he makes his predictions?

I don't think you can realistically assess which teams will or won't make the playoffs in September, at least give the schedule a good 20 games before you can definitely say the team hasn't improved.

Offline Nik

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2011, 10:29:38 AM »
Jeez. By that logic: Will I be hit by a bus tomorrow? It's possible. Will I get fired tomorrow? It's possible.

You may want to go and actually read the column. That's one sentence in a paragraph about how Liles is replacing Kaberle, essentially, and whether or not Liles is better on the PP than Kaberle. This, for instance, is some of what follows that sentence:

Quote
Last season, Liles had 18 points on a reasonably decent Colorado power play. Tomas Kaberle, the puck mover whom he essentially is replacing, scored 25 points on lousy power plays in Toronto then Boston. Kaberle’s strength was vision, puck-moving, and play-making. Where Liles may, in fact, make the big impression is at even strength. Last year he tied for ninth among NHL defenceman with even-strength scoring, just two points behind Shea Weber and four points behind Keith Yandle. That’s heady territory for a defenceman gifted to the Leafs by the cost cutting Avalanche.

There's nothing unreasonable there and it's got numbers and logic and it actually makes a pretty interesting point about Liles offensive skills at even strength. He's not just saying "maybe".

 
I don't understand why every other team is given the benefit of the doubt going forward that they could possibly improve but the Leafs aren't.

I'm not sure where you're reading any of that. This is basically the sum total of what he says about other teams:

Quote
The Eastern Conference has all kinds of depth and the Leafs, nine points out of a playoff spot last year, will have to find a way to be better than Montreal and the Rangers and Carolina and New Jersey, and reinvigorated Winnipeg, and quietly emerging Islanders team. Being eighth now is an accomplishment. And no sure thing.

The only positive things he says about any other teams is that Winnipeg is reinvigorated and the Isles are "emerging". Everything here is true. To make it to eighth the Leafs will probably have to be better than most of the teams he mentioned. And does he say it's impossible? No. He says it's not a sure  thing. The exact same thing every single one of us would say.

Seriously guys, I know there's a tendency to be defensive here but you're flipping out over something that for Simmons, who I'm not a fan of, is pretty reasonable.
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Offline Nik

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 10:36:46 AM »
I don't think you can realistically assess which teams will or won't make the playoffs in September, at least give the schedule a good 20 games before you can definitely say the team hasn't improved.

So people shouldn't make predictions about the upcoming season until 20 games into the season?

And Simmons doesn't say the team "definitely...hasn't improved". In fact, he says the opposite. Here's his quote about Connolly:

Quote
Connolly will make the Leafs better than they were because he is essentially replacing no one as the Leafs No. 1 centre. That doesn’t mean he will make them a whole lot better. He should help the Leafs special teams, both on power play and penalty killing, which is significant on its own, but in the past, when he’s been considered a front line player to build around,

And here's Lombardi:

Quote
Nashville all but gave him away because it needed to clear his $3.5 million salary and the Leafs were willing to gamble on a concussed player. When healthy, he’s been a serviceable NHL player with terrific speed. Again, the addition of a better player, but not someone to get overly excited about.

I quoted the thing about Liles above and, really, the entire article is like that. If it has to be summed up it's "The Leafs improved but it may not be enough in a tough Eastern conference. The playoffs are up in the air" which is something that's  really only objectionable in that it's not exactly the kind of thing a professional needs to tell us.
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Offline Zee

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 10:38:32 AM »

Seriously guys, I know there's a tendency to be defensive here but you're flipping out over something that for Simmons, who I'm not a fan of, is pretty reasonable.

The fact that the title of the article is "Don't bet on Leafs making playoff run" and the line "And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated." probably irks more than a few people.  He's quick to dismiss the moves the Leafs have made in the offseason.

Here's his assessment on Connolly:

Quote
Connolly will make the Leafs better than they were because he is essentially replacing no one as the Leafs No. 1 centre. That doesn’t mean he will make them a whole lot better. He should help the Leafs special teams, both on power play and penalty killing, which is significant on its own, but in the past, when he’s been considered a front line player to build around, he’s never fulfilled the role.

So Connolly instead of Bozak on the top line isn't that big a deal.  His assessment on Lombardi:
Quote
Lombardi is a different story entirely: Nashville all but gave him away because it needed to clear his $3.5 million salary and the Leafs were willing to gamble on a concussed player. When healthy, he’s been a serviceable NHL player with terrific speed. Again, the addition of a better player, but not someone to get overly excited about.

"Nothing to get overly excited about".  In every paragraph he feels the need to downplay each and every move before they've even played 1 game with the Leafs.  This is why people dislike him so much.

Offline Zee

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 10:42:59 AM »
Haha, I replied at the same time as Saint Nik with the same paragraphs but we each took different meanings from them.  Funny how bolding specific parts can alter your perception of something. 

I hear Simmons speak every week on "The Reporters", so I know he likes to snicker and joke about the Leafs.  His comments are meant to knock the Leafs, he knows it sells.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 10:45:18 AM »
I just quoted what I was responding to.

Offline Nik

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Re: The media predictions for the Leafs.
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 10:46:32 AM »
The fact that the title of the article is "Don't bet on Leafs making playoff run"

As someone who's written in a couple publications, let me assure you, writers don't write their headlines. Editors do and their #1 goal is to write something catchy and provocative to gain attention.

and the line "And mediocrity has been accepted and at times almost celebrated." probably irks more than a few people.

The truth hurts, but it doesn't make what he's saying untrue.

So Connolly instead of Bozak on the top line isn't that big a deal.  His assessment on Lombardi:

It's not. And for the most part nobody here, even the most ardent of Leafs cheerleaders, think Conolly is a big deal. He was a consolation prize who most of us hope can stay healthy. Again, Simmons said that he'll make the team better.

"Nothing to get overly excited about".

Well, leaving aside the strict language of it where nobody should get overly excited about anything should people be over the moon about Matthew Lombardi? He's a guy with serious injury problems who most of us hope can provide some help to the team's third line whenever he's able to return. Saying "don't get overly excited" about that strikes you as unreasonable?

Jeez, you may want to avoid the written word as a general rule if that's the sort of stuff that gets your ire up.
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