Author Topic: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050  (Read 14771 times)

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Offline TML fan

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #225 on: March 01, 2014, 10:16:43 PM »
I'm also not convinced about the Kessel penalty. On the one replay, it looked like the puck hit the top of the glass on the way down. I'm willing to the officials the benefit of the doubt on that one, but, the Bernier penalty and especially the Gleason penalty were garbage.

Kessel wouldn't have had to chip the puck if he had someone to pass to. The Leafs will win more games if they stop playing like idiots.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #226 on: March 01, 2014, 10:16:44 PM »
I still call BS.

I'm really not sure why. The play was a textbook example of the description of the penalty.

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #226 on: March 01, 2014, 10:16:44 PM »

Online bustaheims

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #227 on: March 01, 2014, 10:18:58 PM »
I'm really not sure why. The play was a textbook example of the description of the penalty.

Because of how often similar plays go uncalled. Also, because of how a marginal difference would make basically the same play legal. If Bernier lets the puck slide into him instead of putting his glove on it, there's no call there. It would still be the same play, but, one draws a rarely enforced rule and the other does not.
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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #228 on: March 01, 2014, 10:19:41 PM »
Yeah, you can't blame the ref for the last penalty - blame Bernier.  That was a stupid move on his part and he should know better.

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #229 on: March 01, 2014, 10:21:32 PM »
Just to be clear, I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. I'm blaming them for being even more inconsistent than usual and making bad calls.
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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #230 on: March 01, 2014, 10:23:50 PM »
Just to be clear, I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. I'm blaming them for being even more inconsistent than usual and making bad calls.

No argument here.  Montreal games always seem to be more inconsistent than usual...

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #231 on: March 01, 2014, 10:24:42 PM »
Because of how often similar plays go uncalled.

It's in the rulebook though, you can only be upset when they're NOT getting called.

If Bernier lets the puck slide into him instead of putting his glove on it, there's no call there. It would still be the same play, but, one draws a rarely enforced rule and the other does not.

I think that's a pretty important distinction there. Bernier never once intended to play that puck, he dove for it with the sole intention of covering it with his glove. Had Bernier just slid into it you could argue he was trying to knock it somewhere and the puck just went under him. The ref would then have to blow the whistle since he couldn't just allow a Habs player to try and pry it from under his body.

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #232 on: March 01, 2014, 10:28:25 PM »
It's in the rulebook though, you can only be upset when they're NOT getting called.

That would just mean I'm upset more often than I'm not, and that's no good for anyone.

I think that's a pretty important distinction there. Bernier never once intended to play that puck, he dove for it with the sole intention of covering it with his glove. Had Bernier just slid into it you could argue he was trying to knock it somewhere and the puck just went under him. The ref would then have to blow the whistle since he couldn't just allow a Habs player to try and pry it from under his body.

I think it's a pretty marginal distinction, since, considering the angle he took to the puck, Bernier still would have gone to cover the puck up with his glove once it got into his body and he still would have clearly had no intention of playing the puck. The intention would have been exactly the same, it's just the execution that would have been different - and, as far as I'm concerned, in a situation like that, it's the intention that really matters. If it's not a penalty in one situation, it shouldn't be a penalty in the other.
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Offline Stickytape

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #233 on: March 01, 2014, 10:32:06 PM »
Tough loss to swallow, but the point helps at least.  Bleh.  Let's move on.

Offline Derk

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #234 on: March 01, 2014, 10:32:35 PM »
Another blown lead in the 3rd. It continues to be worrisome. Doesn't seem like this team has learned to protect a lead after that epic Game 7 collapse. In fact it seems like last year's team was better at it.

Can't remember where I read it, but after the Isles loss, the Leafs were near or at the bottom of the league in third period leads given up (with Calgary). This loss may have put them in last. Couldn't find that stat anywhere this evening, but I didn't try very hard either. :)

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #235 on: March 01, 2014, 10:41:14 PM »
I think it's a pretty marginal distinction, since, considering the angle he took to the puck, Bernier still would have gone to cover the puck up with his glove once it got into his body and he still would have clearly had no intention of playing the puck.

And I think that still would have been called a penalty. The distinction I was talking about has everything to do with intent, not execution. If a goalie races for the puck and intends to stop the play, whether by jumping on the puck or just allowing it to come to him from within the faceoff dot, it should be a penalty. And the rulebook 100% supports that.

The only way that's not a penalty is if a goalie lunges to the puck with his stick in order to try pokechecking it away (which is what most goalies do in that situation and is something Bernier has done regularly in the past) and he misses it and the puck goes under him. Or if the player gets to the puck first and shoots it into the goalie and then the goalie covers it. I think those situations are what commonly happens when no penalty is called. But I honestly don't remember seeing a goalie lunging for the puck and covering it like Bernier did very often.

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #236 on: March 01, 2014, 11:01:01 PM »
I'm also not convinced about the Kessel penalty. On the one replay, it looked like the puck hit the top of the glass on the way down.

I watched this a bunch of times from the two angles CBC had, it's hard to say. The puck was fluttering quite a bit so it's hard to say if it changed direction from hitting the glass, but I don't think it did. Kessel's reaction was pretty telling too.

For me though the interesting thing about that is if the puck didn't hit the glass, is it because Markov collided into the boards which caused the glass to move back a few inches. The timing would have had to have been perfect (and I'm not saying that Markov did it on purpse), but it's certainly possible the glass moved just enough to allow the puck to have gone out.

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #237 on: March 01, 2014, 11:05:22 PM »
How many more bonehead plays from Bernier are we gonna get this year?

Offline Heroic Shrimp

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #238 on: March 01, 2014, 11:06:16 PM »
I think it's a pretty marginal distinction, since, considering the angle he took to the puck, Bernier still would have gone to cover the puck up with his glove once it got into his body and he still would have clearly had no intention of playing the puck.

And I think that still would have been called a penalty. The distinction I was talking about has everything to do with intent, not execution. If a goalie races for the puck and intends to stop the play, whether by jumping on the puck or just allowing it to come to him from within the faceoff dot, it should be a penalty. And the rulebook 100% supports that.

The only way that's not a penalty is if a goalie lunges to the puck with his stick in order to try pokechecking it away (which is what most goalies do in that situation and is something Bernier has done regularly in the past) and he misses it and the puck goes under him. Or if the player gets to the puck first and shoots it into the goalie and then the goalie covers it. I think those situations are what commonly happens when no penalty is called. But I honestly don't remember seeing a goalie lunging for the puck and covering it like Bernier did very often.

I kind of felt he was charging out to play it as he has before and decided on his way out that his best course of action was to cover it.  If the rule is that it's a penalty, then it's a penalty.  I just honestly didn't for a second think there was a risk of a penalty on the play, and I imagine Bernier likely felt the same.

For me, the case that the rulebook shouldn't consider it a penalty is that it's not a no-risk play, and if the goalie fails to cover it up, it's highly likely to go in the net.  Sort of the opposite of "high-risk/high-reward", like "low risk of screwing it up, but high risk of a failed play ending up in the net".  Anyway, so it goes.
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Offline Heroic Shrimp

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Re: Leafs @ Habs - Mar. 1st, 7:00pm - CBC, TSN 1050
« Reply #239 on: March 01, 2014, 11:09:32 PM »
How many more bonehead plays from Bernier are we gonna get this year?

I'd say take the number of games Bernier starts the rest of the season and multiply that number by 1.
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