Author Topic: The Official 2013 MLB Thread  (Read 17167 times)

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Offline Andy

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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #210 on: December 07, 2013, 08:22:02 AM »
C'mon Jays! Shock the world and sign Robinson Cano for 6 years - 171m.

Not even close, I'm afraid. To the Mariners, 10 years and 240.

I did offer more money per year.

I'm upset the Jays weren't in on this, at least it wasn't reported.

The Jays don't give out contracts exceeding 5 years. AA was not kicking any tires.

Don't get your hopes up on the Jays being in on any good FA. They will sign minor league FA's, cheap 2nd (or 3rd) tier leftover FA's or give up quality pieces for a player in a trade that could have once been signed for little to no compensation. Essentially they have employed the Brian Burke holier than thou motto when it comes to free agency and have taken it to a more preposterous degree.

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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #210 on: December 07, 2013, 08:22:02 AM »

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #211 on: December 09, 2013, 03:24:54 PM »

So today in the Hall of Fame's logic, the most significant man in baseball in the latter half of the century, the man who ended the reserve clause and is one of the three or four most significant people in Baseball history was deemed, again, not worthy of HOF induction.

But win a bunch of division titles because you've got a pitching staff of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz? Come on in!

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10108269/joe-torre-tony-la-russa-bobby-cox-elected-hall-fame
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Offline KoHo

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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #212 on: December 10, 2013, 05:57:36 PM »

So today in the Hall of Fame's logic, the most significant man in baseball in the latter half of the century, the man who ended the reserve clause and is one of the three or four most significant people in Baseball history was deemed, again, not worthy of HOF induction.

But win a bunch of division titles because you've got a pitching staff of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz? Come on in!

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/10108269/joe-torre-tony-la-russa-bobby-cox-elected-hall-fame
Keith Olbermann made a good point about this on his show last night. Tony La Russa owes much of his success to the steroid era's two biggest abusers in Mark McGuire and Jose Canseco. While managing them, he actively denied their steroid use. After managing them, he actively campaigned for McGuire to be voted into the hall of fame. Yet he gets voted in unanimously while one of the all-time greats gets snubbed every year.

And as for Marvin Miller? The owners and executives on the committee that would vote Miller in hate his guts. 

Offline Nik Bethune

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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #213 on: December 10, 2013, 07:11:37 PM »
Keith Olbermann made a good point about this on his show last night. Tony La Russa owes much of his success to the steroid era's two biggest abusers in Mark McGuire and Jose Canseco. While managing them, he actively denied their steroid use. After managing them, he actively campaigned for McGuire to be voted into the hall of fame. Yet he gets voted in unanimously while one of the all-time greats gets snubbed every year.

I don't know how true that is.

I mean, for starters, I'm not on board with the general tone of steroid moralizing there as I don't think PED use in the 90's was the tragedy some people are trying to make it out to be. I certainly don't see a chasm of difference between it and the rampant amphetamine use in Baseball in the 60's and 70's that every likes to conveniently forget when they're trying to turn A-Rod into the boogeyman.

Additionally, it's certainly not something that can be limited to La Russa. I mean, Torre managed Jason Giambi, Gary Sheffield, Roger Clemens and lots of other people who have been associated with PED use in the past. I don't see it as any more virtuous if Torre wants to profit greatly from the performance of those players and then say they shouldn't get into the HOF unless he's willing to include himself in that discussion.

But more to the point I just don't see evidence that the underlying statement is true. La Russa had a good record as a manager in Chicago before McGwire and Canseco, he had a good record as a Manager in Oakland with them and then he had a very good record, the best of his career, in St. Louis without either one. So the idea that he owes "most" of his success to those two players doesn't really hold water with me. If there's a singular player who was most crucial to his success it's probably Albert Pujols.

Now, if Olberman's point is that it looks like Baseball is looking to keep players out of the Hall of Fame but not managers, essentially saying that players were solely to blame and MLB is blameless, then, yes that's just further evidence of how lousy MLB is as an institution but the answer there isn't to keep managers from the era out of the hall alongside the players, it's to stop being all school-marmish about steroids.

And as for Marvin Miller? The owners and executives on the committee that would vote Miller in hate his guts.

Which is just emphatically ridiculous at this point. Even if they don't want to admit that the post-free agency era has been tremendously profitable for teams as well as players, I'd really like to have a conversation with a person who is alive today who thinks that owners should have been able to own a player's rights for life.
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Re: The Official 2013 MLB Thread
« Reply #213 on: December 10, 2013, 07:11:37 PM »