Author Topic: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?  (Read 10794 times)

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Offline Peter D.

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #75 on: June 21, 2013, 09:14:02 AM »
I wanted nothing more than to see Miami lose.  From Bosh's departure and his ego (great Game 7 buddy), the way the team came together, the "decision", the whole light and smoke show to introduce the big two and a half -- it's easy to have a serious dislike for them. 

However, it's fun and exciting to see LeBron evolving into one of the greatest basketball players of all time right before our eyes.

(I just wish Bosh wasn't coattailing along for the ride)

Offline KoHo

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2013, 09:30:46 AM »
As the ESPN guys said, Lebron has already proven he's a winner and the best player of his time. What's left for him is whether he can catch the all-time greats.

EDIT: And on that note, Nate Silver tries to quantify the statistical odds of James catching Jordan:

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/lebrons-odds-of-catching-jordan/?_r=0
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 09:48:15 AM by KoHo »

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #76 on: June 21, 2013, 09:30:46 AM »

Offline KoHo

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #77 on: June 21, 2013, 09:40:39 AM »
Thought this was kind of funny:

Drake got turned away from entering the Heat locker room by security.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8l_6jFZxjA[/youtube]

Until he promptly partied with the team until 5:30 AM.


Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #78 on: June 21, 2013, 12:00:29 PM »
Too bad. I haven't really been rooting for the Heat. I know they were free agents, but I still don't like the idea about good to great players deciding to form a superteam to try and win a championship. It always seemed like a bit of a shortcut to me. It's a bit easier to try in basketball because you don't have as many players.

See, there are two things about that point of view that I just don't understand.

1. I assume you don't have a problem with a team trying to have the best players possible, right? I mean, Magic Johnson won his titles with HOFers on his team like Kareem and James Worthy, Jordan won his with Pippen and Rodman and Bird's Celtics were basically nothing but HOFers with Parish, McHale, Johnson...etc. So why is it worse or less competitive for great players to play together of their own accord than it is for a team's front office to randomly put them together? I mean, what we've seen from the Heat the last few years has kind of disproven the idea people had having Bosh-Wade-Lebron together would make titles easy, the salary cap has made them a top heavy team they've just been able to beat teams in tight series with more depth than they have(say, Indiana and San Antonio this year, Boston and OKC last year) 

2. Every year in practically every sport players sign with teams they feel will give them better chances of winning titles and say as much when they sign but they don't face the level of criticism that the guys on the Heat have. So why is it worse that three of them decided to do it with the same team in the same year? Is it just the idea of players acting in concert?
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Offline Erndog

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #79 on: June 21, 2013, 01:51:47 PM »
Too bad. I haven't really been rooting for the Heat. I know they were free agents, but I still don't like the idea about good to great players deciding to form a superteam to try and win a championship. It always seemed like a bit of a shortcut to me. It's a bit easier to try in basketball because you don't have as many players.

See, there are two things about that point of view that I just don't understand.

1. I assume you don't have a problem with a team trying to have the best players possible, right? I mean, Magic Johnson won his titles with HOFers on his team like Kareem and James Worthy, Jordan won his with Pippen and Rodman and Bird's Celtics were basically nothing but HOFers with Parish, McHale, Johnson...etc. So why is it worse or less competitive for great players to play together of their own accord than it is for a team's front office to randomly put them together? I mean, what we've seen from the Heat the last few years has kind of disproven the idea people had having Bosh-Wade-Lebron together would make titles easy, the salary cap has made them a top heavy team they've just been able to beat teams in tight series with more depth than they have(say, Indiana and San Antonio this year, Boston and OKC last year) 

2. Every year in practically every sport players sign with teams they feel will give them better chances of winning titles and say as much when they sign but they don't face the level of criticism that the guys on the Heat have. So why is it worse that three of them decided to do it with the same team in the same year? Is it just the idea of players acting in concert?


Did Jordan, Bird, or Magic LEAVE their respective teams because they couldn't (up to that point) win a title with whoever they were playing alongside? 

I can't remember the exact quote (or even if it was Jordan or Magic who said it) but it basically went something like, "I could never picture myself joining Magic or Bird.  I wanted to play against them."  Something along those lines.

LBJ should have been the catalyst not the sheep following the herd.

Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #80 on: June 21, 2013, 02:32:49 PM »
Did Jordan, Bird, or Magic LEAVE their respective teams because they couldn't (up to that point) win a title with whoever they were playing alongside?

No, but that seems pretty implied by my question.  I'm asking why it's worse if the good team a player is on is a result of his own agency and decision as opposed to the decisions of others so saying "because they chose it" isn't really an answer. I mean, unless you're of the opinion that there's something inherently wrong with a player choosing to sign with another team.


I can't remember the exact quote (or even if it was Jordan or Magic who said it) but it basically went something like, "I could never picture myself joining Magic or Bird.  I wanted to play against them."  Something along those lines.

Ok, but there's a few problems with that quote from Jordan

1) In the years since his retirement Jordan has basically revealed himself to be a pretty big jerk who takes pot shots at everyone and anyone who he thinks slighted him in any way and is constantly making self-aggrandizing statements about how much better things were in his day.

2) It's an easy thing for Jordan to say considering that it's never a problem he faced. The Bulls did surround him with players that were a good enough supporting cast to win a title, including all-stars and hall-of-famers. Even if we accept that there's something questionable in what Lebron did, Jordan questioning it is like a kid with rich parents saying he'd never steal something.

3) The never quoted second half of that quote is, in part, "But that's ... things are different. I can't say that's a bad thing. It's an opportunity these kids have today."

LBJ should have been the catalyst not the sheep following the herd.

And he did that in Cleveland for 7 years, during which time they repeatedly failed to surround him with the sort of talent that could win a title. In his last year in Cleveland, the other starters on the team were Mo Williams, Anthony Parker, JJ Hickson and a 37 year old Shaquille O'Neal. I mean, compared to the starting five of James, Carlos Boozer, Ilgauskas, Eric Williams and Jeff McInnis you can argue that James' supporting cast was getting worse, not better.

I mean, when you say he should have been the catalyst...is there any doubt that's what he's become in Miami? That it's his team? That he's the one who'll take and hit the big shots with the game on the line? Why is that negated because of the way by which he joined the team? He's no less the leader or the guy on the Heat than Jordan was to the Bulls, Bird was for the Celtics or Johnson was for the Lakers and really, if you look at the titles that James won and his supporting cast vs. the titles those guys won and the strengths of their supporting casts? It's pretty easy to make an argument that James is more of a catalyst than those guys were.
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Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2013, 06:31:58 PM »

Looks like after some wrangling the Clippers have agreed to send a first round pick to the Celtics in exchange for getting to hire Doc Rivers on as coach.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9415256/los-angeles-clippers-clips-agree-principle-doc-rivers-deal-sources

As the article says, a lot of people think that Rivers is Chris Paul's choice for coach and this will guarantee his re-signing so it's a good move from that perspective.
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Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2013, 07:46:57 PM »

In a pretty big surprise Toronto's Anthony Bennett just got drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers with the #1 pick in the NBA draft.
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Offline Dappleganger

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2013, 08:06:11 PM »

In a pretty big surprise Toronto's Anthony Bennett just got drafted by the Cleveland Cavaliers with the #1 pick in the NBA draft.

The mock drafters had this one all wrong so far.

Will it be Canadians back-to-back 1st overall selections with Wiggins next year?

Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2013, 09:08:47 PM »
Will it be Canadians back-to-back 1st overall selections with Wiggins next year?

Seems like a safe bet. Good stretch for Canadian talent as Kelly Olynyk from Kamloops goes to the Celtics at 13. First draft with two Canadians going in the Lottery.
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Offline KoHo

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2013, 10:23:27 PM »
The 2016 Rio Olympics is going to be good for Canadian basketball. There'll be some great young talent on the roster:

Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Kelly Olynyk
Tristan Thompson
(more)?

Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2013, 10:32:47 PM »
The 2016 Rio Olympics is going to be good for Canadian basketball. There'll be some great young talent on the roster:

Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Kelly Olynyk
Tristan Thompson
(more)?

Well, there's a lot of talk that Matt Bonner is trying to get his Canadian citizenship so he wear the Maple Leaf internationally.

Seriously though even though his stock has fallen Myck Kabongo, who is likely to get picked in the second round, should be on that team. Andrew Nicholson, last year's #19 pick too.
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Offline KoHo

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2013, 10:43:44 PM »
The 2016 Rio Olympics is going to be good for Canadian basketball. There'll be some great young talent on the roster:

Andrew Wiggins
Anthony Bennett
Kelly Olynyk
Tristan Thompson
(more)?

Well, there's a lot of talk that Matt Bonner is trying to get his Canadian citizenship so he wear the Maple Leaf internationally.

Seriously though even though his stock has fallen Myck Kabongo, who is likely to get picked in the second round, should be on that team. Andrew Nicholson, last year's #19 pick too.
Right. Them too.

Canada's not going to be up there with Spain and the US obviously, but if some of these young players turn out to be what people say they'll become, this team can do some damage.

Offline Nik

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #88 on: June 27, 2013, 11:06:48 PM »

Pretty big trade just got announced. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry to Brooklyn for Gerald Wallace, Reggie Evans, Keith Bogans and three first round picks.

So the rebuild is in full-swing in Boston.
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Offline KoHo

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Re: The 2012-2013 NBA Thread: How are the Pacers doing, Ern?
« Reply #89 on: June 28, 2013, 09:43:33 AM »

Pretty big trade just got announced. Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett and Jason Terry to Brooklyn for Gerald Wallace, Reggie Evans, Keith Bogans and three first round picks.

So the rebuild is in full-swing in Boston.
Pierce and Garnett replace Wallace and Evans in their starting 5.

Brook Lopez
Kevin Garnett
Paul Pierce
Joe Johnson
Deron Williams

Man oh man. That could be a VERY good team.