Author Topic: Jays Roster Discussion  (Read 50524 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #315 on: December 07, 2016, 07:38:59 PM »
The thing with bullpen arms is that you don't have to spend a ton to get good performances. You really just need to do a good job of identifying guys that just need a tweak in their delivery/mindset/usage. They can usually be picked up relatively cheap. They do tend to have short shelf lives - but, that's true of a significant portion of middle relief types.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #315 on: December 07, 2016, 07:38:59 PM »

Offline Bill_Berg

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #316 on: December 20, 2016, 04:46:31 PM »
Bautista to Toronto rumors picking up. 2 years 15 per? I would take that. I would still prefer Encarnacion as a full time 1st baseman to JB as a RF, but I suppose that's a pipe dream.

Offline L K

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #317 on: December 20, 2016, 05:21:45 PM »
My problem is Jose hasn't learned to play 1B and you can't DH him.  He's a bad defender in the outfield so he's really limiting his value.  15M isn't horrible for him but it isn't like the Jays are getting a deal with him either.

Offline Joe S.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #318 on: December 20, 2016, 05:37:38 PM »
Jose 'no hometown discount' Bautista

"I don't believe in hometown discounts. I've given this organization a 5-year hometown discount already."
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 05:39:29 PM by Joe S. »

Offline Captain Canuck

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #319 on: December 20, 2016, 06:41:03 PM »
A few players who had minor roles with the Jays in 2016 have signed minor league deals elsewhere - Junior Lake with the Red Sox, Matt Dominguez with the Red Sox and Chris Colabello with the Indians

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #320 on: December 20, 2016, 06:53:36 PM »
My problem is Jose hasn't learned to play 1B and you can't DH him.  He's a bad defender in the outfield so he's really limiting his value.  15M isn't horrible for him but it isn't like the Jays are getting a deal with him either.

I don't know if he's played enough 1B to really say one way or the other how he'd do there on a semi-regular basis. I certainly don't think Pearce or Smoak are easily preferable options to form a DH/1B platoon with Morales though.

That said, it's hard to see a ton of upside here either.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Andy

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #321 on: December 21, 2016, 07:02:06 AM »
My problem is Jose hasn't learned to play 1B and you can't DH him.  He's a bad defender in the outfield so he's really limiting his value.  15M isn't horrible for him but it isn't like the Jays are getting a deal with him either.

I don't know if he's played enough 1B to really say one way or the other how he'd do there on a semi-regular basis. I certainly don't think Pearce or Smoak are easily preferable options to form a DH/1B platoon with Morales though.

That said, it's hard to see a ton of upside here either.

I guess you could stick both Pearce and Bautista in LF whenever you need to and have them split 1B duties, leaving Morales as the primary DH. Bautista's defence in left couldn't be any worse than Saunders' last year, provided Toronto finds a capable right fielder (Granderson??) and uses Upton as the 4th OF.

15 million per for Bautista on a short term deal really doesn't have much downside either.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #322 on: December 21, 2016, 09:10:48 AM »
15 million per for Bautista on a short term deal really doesn't have much downside either.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by downside. I agree that it's not a deal that would bury the Jays or anything but I'd have a number of concerns.

1. I wouldn't be too sure about Bautista's defense vs. Saunders'. Bautista was graded at a -1.4 by BR last year and Saunders was a -1.7. Admittedly that's the difference between Saunders in Left and Bautista in right where the baseline figures to be a little higher but add on another year of age to Bautista and it might be pretty close.

2. To that end you have to wonder how much Bautista's bat can come back. If it can then, sure, he's valuable in Left despite the defense. If not, you could very well have a situation where he's effectively the same as Saunders last year.

3. I'd wonder the extent to which Bautista could then handle, ego-wise, being in a reduced role.

4. Likewise, you have to at least wonder about the wisdom of continuing to just stack the lineup with righthanded power bats. I think the last two LCS' showed us how that can backfire.

5. To that end, you have to wonder if that 15 million couldn't be more effectively spent elsewhere given the Jays' limited budget.

This is where I'm a little puzzled, I suppose, by the Morales deal. I get that he's a switch hitter but it seems like if Bautista was available and could slide into the DH role that might be the higher upside move. 
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Andy

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #323 on: December 21, 2016, 09:21:43 AM »
I agree on all points really. Granted it's hindsight now but it looks like they misread the market and rushed to sign Morales (and gave him 3 years to boot).

I was hoping they'd be in on Joyce, who would have been a perfect platoon with Upton, and make a move for someone like Granderson to patrol right. Then you could have had one of EE or Jose DH fulltime.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #324 on: December 22, 2016, 08:57:40 PM »
Edwin 3 years at 20 per to Cleveland.

Club has an option for a 4th year at the same price.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #325 on: December 22, 2016, 09:00:29 PM »

Jeez, I'd rather have that than Morales + Pearce.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline L K

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #326 on: December 22, 2016, 09:09:09 PM »

Jeez, I'd rather have that than Morales + Pearce.

Don't forget those semi-regular at bats for Smoak.

Morales + Smoak + Pearce = 20.375M

57HR 162RBI for the trio vs. 42HR 127 RBI for Eddie
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 09:11:40 PM by L K »

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #327 on: December 22, 2016, 09:20:52 PM »
Edwin 3 years at 20 per to Cleveland.

Club has an option for a 4th year at the same price.

Very similar to what the Jays initially offered him. If they hadn't been so quick to move on, they probably could have signed him to this deal.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Captain Canuck

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #328 on: December 23, 2016, 12:37:28 AM »
Most of the blame should be pointed squarely at Paul Kinzer as far as Edwin no longer being a Jay. He cost his client money and the chance to stay in the city he wanted to keep playing in.

I understand what people are saying about Shapiro and Atkins though, despite the Jays offering Edwin the best deal as it turned out. I certainly never got the impression they would move off the 4 years, $80 million. It was more a take it or leave it offer and don't believe they particularly cared if Edwin stayed or not. I believe that holds true for Jose as well.

Thank you Edwin for all you have done in a Jays uniform! One of the all-time greats in team history and that walk-off HR against the O's in the Wild Card game ranks up there as one of the best Jays moments. 

Offline hockeyfan1

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #329 on: December 23, 2016, 05:21:19 AM »
Most of the blame should be pointed squarely at Paul Kinzer as far as Edwin no longer being a Jay. He cost his client money and the chance to stay in the city he wanted to keep playing in.

I understand what people are saying about Shapiro and Atkins though, despite the Jays offering Edwin the best deal as it turned out. I certainly never got the impression they would move off the 4 years, $80 million. It was more a take it or leave it offer and don't believe they particularly cared if Edwin stayed or not. I believe that holds true for Jose as well.

Thank you Edwin for all you have done in a Jays uniform! One of the all-time greats in team history and that walk-off HR against the O's in the Wild Card game ranks up there as one of the best Jays moments.


I say, "Bravo, Edwin!"  Sad to see him leave, but he'll remain a favourite Blue Jay to baseball aficionados in this city for a long time to come.

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Re: Jays Roster Discussion
« Reply #329 on: December 23, 2016, 05:21:19 AM »