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Messages - Bates

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1
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Matthews placed on IR
« on: November 15, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »

I wouldn't trade Matthews for anything other than McDavid. I wouldn't trade him for Arizona's whole team.
Absolutely zero scenarios where I would consider trading him.

Zero??  Hedman and Point? MacKinnon and Barrie?

2
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Matthews placed on IR
« on: November 15, 2018, 10:33:33 AM »

 ;D :o ::) :-\ :'(

Pointless trading him now while injured. Best waiting til he's back playing, prove he's worth the assets he's traded for
Cox is a troll, what a dumb tweet.

I think it would be a discussion worth having depending on the return. A number 1 D plus would certainly improve the Leafs.  The obvious being OEL plus.

3
General NHL News & Views / Re: Bettman
« on: November 09, 2018, 06:42:23 PM »
Using that why exactly would he be Inducted if he just does what the owner's want?  He gets credit as he is driving the bus, he gets booed because he is driving the bus.

Because, what he's done in his position as commissioner goes far beyond representing the BoG in CBA negotiations. He pushed for and largely directed the league's expansion through the 90s and early 2000s - which has largely been a success, he's played a significant role in helping to increase the league's revenue, etc. He doesn't just do what the owners want, but, the things he gets blamed for are when he's largely in the position, whereas the positive things he's done are a much more mixed bag.

Of course but as a Leaf fan he has overseen the Cap and 3 lockouts, easy to see a reason to boo. As an Arizona fan certainly harder to see a reason to.

4
General NHL News & Views / Re: Bettman
« on: November 09, 2018, 05:05:16 PM »
How about this one, Bettman has been in charge of the League for 3 lockouts, with a possible 4th to come and was instrumental in achieving a Salary Cap which hurts the Leafs as much as any team. Why would anyone be surprised that Leaf fans might not be a fan of his?

Maybe they understand that his role in the CBA negotiations is to represent the BoG and he's not imposing his will. If he didn't pursue th4e cap as diligently as he did, he'd would no longer be the commissioner. The cap is not his doing. He and Daly were simply the weapons that BoG wielded in their fight against the PA.
Using that why exactly would he be Inducted if he just does what the owner's want?  He gets credit as he is driving the bus, he gets booed because he is driving the bus.

5
General NHL News & Views / Re: Bettman
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:52:25 PM »
How about this one, Bettman has been in charge of the League for 3 lockouts, with a possible 4th to come and was instrumental in achieving a Salary Cap which hurts the Leafs as much as any team. Why would anyone be surprised that Leaf fans might not be a fan of his?

6
General NHL News & Views / Re: Bettman
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:48:20 PM »
Toronto fans have a really good player sitting in Europe that they have not been able to sign largely because of the Cap,  they actually might have a reason to boo Bettman right now.



You don't like answers??

7
General NHL News & Views / Re: Bettman
« on: November 09, 2018, 02:03:38 PM »
If it's dishonest? I don't think so. I think "class" as an adjective is largely meaningless in any sort of modern context regardless(or at least it seems to mean whatever the user wants it to mean) but why cheer the guy if you think he's been bad for the game? What are you applauding? That he's made a bunch of awful old billionaires more money?

Okay, fair enough. I will withdraw the "classier" comment and go another way.

He has been the commissioner for 35 years. Somewhere along the way he was truly on the butt end of boos and jeers from fans who blamed him for all that is wrong with the game of hockey. Somehow it became the in thing to do to boo him.

But the game is great right now. It is stronger than ever and continuing to grow. The NHL cap has allowed more fans to keep their teams in place and be competitive. It was a long haul to get where they are today, but surely history can show that he has done his job at least adequately.

The HHOF has chosen him to be inducted. Nice honor. We can argue about whether he belongs there now just as we can for any other player, but every other player/owner/coach etc. gets cheered when the time comes for them to walk out and salute the fans. But Bettman will not get that. It is utterly ridiculous that people continue to boo. But ask any of them why they are booing and my guess is that the great majority could not really tell you.

Toronto fans have a really good player sitting in Europe that they have not been able to sign largely because of the Cap,  they actually might have a reason to boo Bettman right now.

8
General NHL News & Views / Re: Official Ottawa Senators Thread
« on: November 06, 2018, 05:39:06 PM »
What the Uber guy did was apparently illegal.  I wonder if it was him that leaked it though or someone he knew.  This type of thing isn't exactly worth risking your financial livelihood on.

I wonder if Ottawa has bad coaches intentionally so they can tank harder.

What part is illegal?

9
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:54:16 PM »
Funny guy to comment on semantic argument when right above you are telling posters how they are allowed to comment in regards to a topic.

I've never said you weren't allowed to derail conversations by needing even the simplest of concepts explained to you slowly, I've just criticized you for relentlessly doing it.

Relentlessly?? Yeah my 1100 posts support that? I guess you just not attacking the other guy's correct post would never be considered as a course of action. Even when he explained his post.

10
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:48:20 PM »
I think it would depend on how you define star? Personally I don't put Nylander in that category right now.

Oh gosh golly, a semantic argument with you about the definition of "star"? Where do I sign up?

Funny guy to comment on semantic argument when right above you are telling posters how they are allowed to comment in regards to a topic. I find it really hard to consider a team's 5th or 6th best player a "star".

11
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:42:27 PM »
You save that with 5 players contracts and it adds up quickly. You have to save where you can with each and every contract. There's a reason the Leafs haven't budged on their number. There's no such a thing as it's just 400K in a cap world.

So you hurt your team's performance in the regular season and risk alienating your top young players five times and maybe you save 2.5% of the cap.
Where did I say that? I didn't. Simply responding to the "Its only 400k" comment. If you read where I said there's a reason the Leafs haven't budged you would understand. Obviously not.

He explained in the next post.

12
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:38:23 PM »
I don't think players owe anyone either but the bigger that divides gets I can easily see a little dissection in the Union ranks. Not that the money Isn't great for everyone but I'm guessing the NHL is a tough life for $600K as you get older.

My guess is that any player who thinks a star player should take less so that money can go directly into their pocket isn't likely all that much of a union guy to begin with.

I think it would depend on how you define star? Personally I don't put Nylander in that category right now.

13
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:37:06 PM »
So the conversation can't change to just savings?? Someone tried to change the conversation.

Yes, you.

Using "savings" to just mean any sort of negotiation on the part of the team isn't particularly meaningful because nobody is suggesting that the team shouldn't negotiate with players to hopefully get their prices down somewhat, just that the specific schism between salary/cap hit involved in signing a player near the end of November probably doesn't outweigh the damage it does to the team, even if or maybe especially if, it's combined with similar "savings" from other players.

So, as a helpful guide :

Normal Negotiations - Ok, not a point of contention

Purposely negotiating until the end of November for a specific type of savings - Maybe bad, the point of contention

No, not me. The poster merely suggested that if you get this savings for a number if players you really strengthen your team. You just incorrectly assumed how he was suggesting how you get there.

14
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
It's really the only direction to go, the League has already set up the plan that the bottom half of each team plays with almost exclusively players making around a million. The more high end talent you have the more low cost talent you have. The only real place to get some middle ground talent is to beg the top guys to subsidize it.

Yeah, again, I don't fault NHL teams for trying that out. I'm just absolutely not going to attach any moral or logical significance to it. Especially a team like the Leafs.

I don't think players owe anyone either but the bigger that divides gets I can easily see a little dissection in the Union ranks. Not that the money Isn't great for everyone but I'm guessing the NHL is a tough life for $600K as you get older. 

15
Main Leafs Hockey Talk / Re: Contracts for the Big-3
« on: November 06, 2018, 12:27:32 PM »
Again I'm following the guy you quoted, I read his whole post, and he didn't suggest you have a contentious negotionion with everyone to get savings. He just said that if you get a bit from everyone it becomes significant.

Again "savings" is specifically referring to the difference in salary/cap hit that occurs if a player is signed after a season has begun. It is not a reference to negotiating with a player hoping to get them to sign for lower than they want because the Leafs are already doing that with Nylander. This is in addition to that.

These posts all exist within the context of a larger conversation. Again, most people can keep up.

So the conversation can't change to just savings?? Someone tried to change the conversation.

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