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Maple Leafs News and Views => Former Leafs: Ex-Files => Topic started by: lamajama on January 16, 2012, 01:33:56 PM

Title: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: lamajama on January 16, 2012, 01:33:56 PM
Sorry guys - it's Bruce Garrioch writing this (near the bottom).

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/2012/01/14/19245191.html

I don't really know what to say here...ecstasy as we could get Nash for
a 7th round pick or the Mayan's are right after all.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Peter D. on January 16, 2012, 01:42:39 PM
The man you want to trust in turning your pathetic franchise around would be JFJ?!  So help the poor fans in Columbus. 
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 16, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
Nash to Leafs for Finger?
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Michael on January 16, 2012, 01:58:17 PM
Nash to Leafs for Finger?

Finger was a Fletcher mistake.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 16, 2012, 02:03:24 PM
Nash to Leafs for Finger?

Finger was a Fletcher mistake.

That doesn't mean JFJ can't un-do it!  ;D
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Erndog on January 16, 2012, 02:05:16 PM
I don't know in how much of a hurray JFJ would be to help the Leafs.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 16, 2012, 02:07:01 PM
I don't know in how much of a hurray JFJ would be to help the Leafs.

I would only be counting on his bad judgment and the fact that Burke continually praises JFJ for any draft pick that's left over from his era.  Perhaps Burke has been softening him up in anticipation of JFJ landing another GM job?   ;)
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 16, 2012, 02:16:13 PM
If this happens, I'm going with the Mayans are right theory.

edit: or when they stopped the calendar at Dec 2012, they really meant just for the Columbus Blue Jackets.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: bustaheims on January 16, 2012, 02:20:19 PM
Who knows? Maybe he'll do well managing a team no-one really cares about.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: You're right on January 16, 2012, 02:21:46 PM
Wonder if anyone can confirm or deny this rumour? ;D
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 16, 2012, 02:27:25 PM
Sillies.  JFJ won't make a Rask for Raycroft type deal in CBJ.  He would inherit Steve Mason. So he already has his one-hit-rookie-wonder fraud goalie.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Peter D. on January 16, 2012, 02:29:13 PM
Leaving the jokes aside for a minute, would this not be a disaster waiting to happen the second it were to go down? 

His stance has been that Leafs ownership wouldn't allow him to go through a rebuild (still does not justify/explain his many moronic moves).  I highly doubt the ownership in Columbus would settle for more rebuilding.  The team, at the end of this season, will have made the playoffs once in their 12-year existence, has not won a single playoff game, and has seen its attendance erode.   
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Stebro on January 16, 2012, 02:32:24 PM
Hey, any average bum that wants a 5 million deal?
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 16, 2012, 02:34:09 PM
Leaving the jokes aside for a minute, would this not be a disaster waiting to happen the second it were to go down? 


Oh for sure. There is nothing about CBJ hiring JFJ that suggests it is anything but the final straw that destroys the franchise. 

If there was ever a franchise that needed to hire an experienced, highly successful GM with a track record of knowing what it takes to build a winner, they would be it.   Find that guy and pay him whatever it takes. 
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 16, 2012, 10:36:50 PM
Leaving the jokes aside for a minute, would this not be a disaster waiting to happen the second it were to go down? 


Oh for sure. There is nothing about CBJ hiring JFJ that suggests it is anything but the final straw that destroys the franchise. 

If there was ever a franchise that needed to hire an experienced, highly successful GM with a track record of knowing what it takes to build a winner, they would be it.   Find that guy and pay him whatever it takes.

Nonis?
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Potvin29 on January 16, 2012, 10:56:27 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: bustaheims on January 16, 2012, 11:00:51 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

He did have the benefit of having significant funds to allocate to his scouting staff while he was here - something he's unlikely to have in Columbus - but, yeah, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson are all JFJ era picks.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 16, 2012, 11:08:57 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

He did have the benefit of having significant funds to allocate to his scouting staff while he was here - something he's unlikely to have in Columbus - but, yeah, Frattin, Kulemin, Reimer, Gunnarsson are all JFJ era picks.

I think the problem is he's going into a situation where he's pretty much guaranteed to fail, similar to what he came into with Toronto (although not quite as bad of course). Management is going to want a winner and the team just isn't there yet. No reputable GM is going to take that job so they need to find a puppet.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 17, 2012, 02:04:51 AM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 08:23:12 AM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 17, 2012, 08:32:15 AM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

True, with the added note that GM's will outline for the scouts the type of players they want, with certain attributes taking priority over others and the scout's job is to help rank players according to those priorities, especially in early rounds. I think its one of the things we have seen change a lot under Burke, where character has become the top attribute he is looking for with work ethic second and maybe skill 3rd. 

Jason Blake and Jiri Tlusty are two great examples where skill was taken over character issues or the ability to play at a level every night to succeed. 
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 08:56:29 AM
I still recall JFJ bringing in the Polish Prince.  Great FA signing.  :o
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 17, 2012, 09:30:14 AM
I still recall JFJ bringing in the Polish Prince.  Great FA signing.  :o

Yet another great example.  All skill, no heart (or brains).
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: lamajama on January 17, 2012, 11:48:50 AM
I think the Belfour contract is severely under-rated in terms of absolute stupidity...
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 17, 2012, 01:08:30 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

A GM tends to have more of a say in the first round or two, then he lets his scouts take over later. But yeah it's impossible to say for sure who deserves credit.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 01:11:17 PM
I think the Belfour contract is severely under-rated in terms of absolute stupidity...

Did he give Belfour an NTC/NMC?  I can't recall cause he was handing them out to everyone and their brother like nonna hands out candies to my kids.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 17, 2012, 01:16:44 PM
As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

But then it has to be consistent. If he doesn't get buried for the Tlusty pick, he's not the guy to laud for the Kulemin or Gunnar picks either. Either a GM is responsible for the successes and failures of his draft choices or he isn't.

In which case, you're back to judging JFJ solely on his FA signings/trades and he's an out and out trainwreck.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 01:19:29 PM
As Burke has pointed out though, drafting is all about the scouts.  The general manager doesn't scout all these guys and has to go on the advice on what his scouts are saying.  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?  I judge JFJ more about his boneheaded trades and signing like Raycroft first followed up by Toskala.

But then it has to be consistent. If he doesn't get buried for the Tlusty pick, he's not the guy to laud for the Kulemin or Gunnar picks either. Either a GM is responsible for the successes and failures of his draft choices or he isn't.

In which case, you're back to judging JFJ solely on his FA signings/trades and he's an out and out trainwreck.

That's true, but it's only Burke ever lauding JFJ, just because Burke is Burke and doesn't like taking cheap shots at former players/management.  I can't imagine Burke ever saying "if only JFJ didn't draft that shmuck Tlusty we'd be in better shape today!"  :D
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 17, 2012, 01:22:39 PM
That's true, but it's only Burke ever lauding JFJ, just because Burke is Burke and doesn't like taking cheap shots at former players/management.

I'm referring to the earlier comments about JFJ's draft record in this thread. But, point taken, I believe like 30% of what Burke says anyway.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: bustaheims on January 17, 2012, 01:25:34 PM
A GM tends to have more of a say in the first round or two, then he lets his scouts take over later. But yeah it's impossible to say for sure who deserves credit.

That's true, but, at the same time, the GM has an awful lot of say as to who he employs as scouts.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 01:27:05 PM
That's true, but it's only Burke ever lauding JFJ, just because Burke is Burke and doesn't like taking cheap shots at former players/management.

I'm referring to the earlier comments about JFJ's draft record in this thread. But, point taken, I believe like 30% of what Burke says anyway.

Oh I know, you can't have it both ways, if you're gonna praise him for drafting Kulemin he should be held to the coals for drafting the Tlustys of the world.  But then again, the draft is usually a crap shoot and you never really know what you're getting (unless there are bona fide stars available as in the years of Crosby, Ovechkin, Stamkos etc).  I mean Tlusty was #13 overall, usually unless it's a deep draft anything outside the top 5 is iffy and for sure iffy out of the top 10.  You'll always see guys that go in the later rounds that were overlooked and become great players. 

Then the question becomes how much is skill at drafting versus development in your organization?  Is Detroit really that good at getting late picks who blossom or do they have an incredible development system to bring later picks around?  Probably a bit of both.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 17, 2012, 01:37:55 PM
  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?

The other thing though is that this strikes me as kind of unrealistic. I'm pretty doubtful that, in anything other than a Sid Crosby/Alex Ovechkin sort of situation, scouts aren't going to speak in a unified voice. Especially in the case of a foreign player like Tlusty I think it's pretty doubtful that all of the scouts would have seen Tlusty, let alone all agree on him. I'm guessing that in a situation where you're picking in the middle of the round there are going to be any number of players that your scouts like and a GM, ultimately, is going to have to make the call.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zee on January 17, 2012, 01:58:41 PM
  If everyone was on agreement on Tlusty what else could JFJ do?

The other thing though is that this strikes me as kind of unrealistic. I'm pretty doubtful that, in anything other than a Sid Crosby/Alex Ovechkin sort of situation, scouts aren't going to speak in a unified voice. Especially in the case of a foreign player like Tlusty I think it's pretty doubtful that all of the scouts would have seen Tlusty, let alone all agree on him. I'm guessing that in a situation where you're picking in the middle of the round there are going to be any number of players that your scouts like and a GM, ultimately, is going to have to make the call.

True but there's also a pecking order to the scouts where you have a structure with a main guy then everyone else under him.  There was probably some sort of consensus on picks.  Also JFJ didn't strike me as the sort of GM who had complete control of the team and his word was the final say.  He was a young, unproven guy at an important job and there were probably many guys offering input to his decisions.  I can see Burke as the type of GM who would totally put the hammer down and make a decision even if someone else is against it cause he has that kind gumption.

I can't believe I just used "gumption".
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Rebel_1812 on January 17, 2012, 10:52:15 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

rask was a barry trapp choice.  His last one before JFJ showed him the door.  Personally, I feel Barry Trapp's record would have been better over the JFJ era if he had made all of the draft choices.  He even said he would have taken Chris Stewart over Jiri Tlusty, which was the right choice in hindsight.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Corn Flake on January 18, 2012, 02:29:35 PM
If he was allowed to build through the draft it might not be the worst - his drafting was decent here, no?

Yes and no. I mean, as Busta mentions he managed to find some good depth players late in the rounds, but he also used his highest ever draft pick on Jiri Tlusty and basically managed to whiff with his highest draft choice every year(except Rask but he can't get too much credit there). It's certainly not a draft record I'd be excited about if I were a CBJ fan.

rask was a barry trapp choice.  His last one before JFJ showed him the door.  Personally, I feel Barry Trapp's record would have been better over the JFJ era if he had made all of the draft choices.  He even said he would have taken Chris Stewart over Jiri Tlusty, which was the right choice in hindsight.

John Doherty was the end.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Sarge on January 18, 2012, 02:31:09 PM
Thanks.  :P I had all but forgotten about him.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: the dingo ate my baby on January 18, 2012, 02:32:14 PM
I give it 3 weeks before 80% of the CLB roster has no movement clauses.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Tigger on January 18, 2012, 02:46:04 PM
Is it unfair of me to, aside from keeping him the hell away from my team, just not give a crap about the guy?
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: L K on January 18, 2012, 02:49:06 PM
It's not like Tlusty was a bad pick at the time though.  Decent frame, had the makings of a two-way player and he was planning on coming to North America to play in the CHL to learn the North American style of play before hitting the pros.  It wasn't like they went off the board and drafted a 2nd/3rd rounder in the top 15.

Even now, we are talking about a kid who is is 23; missed half his junior year due to a significant injury; wasted his first professional season playing on the 4th line; got a proper developmental 2nd season and then was traded for a garbage prospect in the middle of his 3rd pro season. 

Tlusty's 15G 30 point pace this year is hardly setting the world on fire in Carolina but he's not embarrassing himself over there.  It wasn't a good pick, but it was hardly JFJ looking at an amazing draft and spitting on his entire scouting staff
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: lamajama on January 18, 2012, 05:47:24 PM
I think the Belfour contract is severely under-rated in terms of absolute stupidity...

Did he give Belfour an NTC/NMC?  I can't recall cause he was handing them out to everyone and their brother like nonna hands out candies to my kids.

I'm not 100% sure but I am pretty sure he did. He also gave him $18 mil over 3 years just as the CBA expired, and Belfour then immediately had his back surgery which then required the Leafs to pay his $6 mil the whole
year while recovering.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 18, 2012, 10:33:51 PM
It's not like Tlusty was a bad pick at the time though.  Decent frame, had the makings of a two-way player and he was planning on coming to North America to play in the CHL to learn the North American style of play before hitting the pros.  It wasn't like they went off the board and drafted a 2nd/3rd rounder in the top 15.

Even now, we are talking about a kid who is is 23; missed half his junior year due to a significant injury; wasted his first professional season playing on the 4th line; got a proper developmental 2nd season and then was traded for a garbage prospect in the middle of his 3rd pro season. 

Tlusty's 15G 30 point pace this year is hardly setting the world on fire in Carolina but he's not embarrassing himself over there.  It wasn't a good pick, but it was hardly JFJ looking at an amazing draft and spitting on his entire scouting staff

Well said.  JFJ had a lot of big time flops but drafting Tlusty wasn't one of them.  He wasn't a good pick, but he was an understandable one and he hasn't been a bust.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: bustaheims on January 18, 2012, 10:43:21 PM
I remember when Tlusty was drafted, I looked through a few various projections of that year's draft, and some had him ranked as high as 6th. Obviously, he didn't work out quite as planned, but, as others have said, he was definitely an understandable pick.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 18, 2012, 11:12:13 PM
I remember when Tlusty was drafted, I looked through a few various projections of that year's draft, and some had him ranked as high as 6th. Obviously, he didn't work out quite as planned, but, as others have said, he was definitely an understandable pick.

Yeah, it wasn't a reach or anything. He was picked right around where he was supposed to go.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 19, 2012, 05:38:33 AM
The problem with all of this isn't that it's not true, but rather that it's almost always true. I mean, it's not like when Patrik Stefan or Alexandre Daigle were drafted TSN had to scramble to find video on them because nobody knew who they were.

Again, this is all in response to the original issue of whether or not JFJ drafted well. Either you're going to measure that by the subsequent performance of the players drafted or you're not. I'm fine with either approach but it can't just break that way on the successes. If we're going to judge a GM's draft performance on whether or not his picks were crazy, far-out reaches then I'd guess 99% of GM's would end up ranking the same.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Bullfrog on January 19, 2012, 09:45:17 AM
I think if we're going to rate GM's on their draft performance we have to take multiple things. You can't just choose to rank them based on the performance of the drafted players nor the opposite. The fact that the players' ultimate success isn't fully dependent on what the GM does is evidence to that. That is, a 1st rounder's failure can't be fully pinned on a GM's lack of foresight more than the success of a 6th rounder.

In the end, I really don't know what the best way to rate a GM's draft success.

Despite what I said above, do you just rate them on the players' success knowing that logic is flawed? It's flawed because of the influence of the scouting staff, performance at physical combines, life influences, GM's own thought process, etc. But really, wouldn't that logic fall more on describing a team's drafting success? This is more fitting because it's obviously a fallacy that the GM is solely responsible for the draft success.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Rebel_1812 on January 21, 2012, 03:42:45 PM
It's not like Tlusty was a bad pick at the time though.  Decent frame, had the makings of a two-way player and he was planning on coming to North America to play in the CHL to learn the North American style of play before hitting the pros.  It wasn't like they went off the board and drafted a 2nd/3rd rounder in the top 15.

Even now, we are talking about a kid who is is 23; missed half his junior year due to a significant injury; wasted his first professional season playing on the 4th line; got a proper developmental 2nd season and then was traded for a garbage prospect in the middle of his 3rd pro season. 

Tlusty's 15G 30 point pace this year is hardly setting the world on fire in Carolina but he's not embarrassing himself over there.  It wasn't a good pick, but it was hardly JFJ looking at an amazing draft and spitting on his entire scouting staff

I don't think you should ever draft a "two way player" in the first round.  Essentially by picking a player like that you are already resigning yourself that he will be at best a 2nd line player, more then likely a 3rd line player.  With your first round pick don't settle for mediocrity, go for an all-star even if they are a high risk pick.  It is not hard to accquire an average player like Stajan, who is a good "two way player". 
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: #1PilarFan on January 21, 2012, 03:51:49 PM
This would be the worst mistake anyone has ever made since the Leafs originally hired JFJ as GM.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 21, 2012, 03:56:34 PM
I don't think you should ever draft a "two way player" in the first round.  Essentially by picking a player like that you are already resigning yourself that he will be at best a 2nd line player, more then likely a 3rd line player. 

I think you're confusing the term "two way player" with saying a forward isn't good offensively. Two way player means someone who's good offensively and defensively. Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews and so on.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 21, 2012, 04:01:55 PM
I don't think you should ever draft a "two way player" in the first round.  Essentially by picking a player like that you are already resigning yourself that he will be at best a 2nd line player, more then likely a 3rd line player. 

I think you're confusing the term "two way player" with saying a forward isn't good offensively. Two way player means someone who's good offensively and defensively. Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews and so on.

And Tlusty was a guy who has shown a fair bit of offensive flair in the OHL/AHL. 34 points in 37 games during his only season in the OHL (and if I remember correctly he started off fairly slowly too). And 103 points in 105 games with the Marlies.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Rebel_1812 on January 22, 2012, 03:21:36 PM
I don't think you should ever draft a "two way player" in the first round.  Essentially by picking a player like that you are already resigning yourself that he will be at best a 2nd line player, more then likely a 3rd line player. 

I think you're confusing the term "two way player" with saying a forward isn't good offensively. Two way player means someone who's good offensively and defensively. Marian Hossa, Jonathan Toews and so on.

The point of putting it in quotes was about how people use the label.  1st line players that are good defensively usuallly don't get called "two way players".  Its more the average players like Steens, and Stajans that get called it.  My point is it is better to use a 1st round pick on a player that might be an all star then a "two way player" which is code for a average player.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 22, 2012, 03:30:30 PM
The point of putting it in quotes was about how people use the label.  1st line players that are good defensively usuallly don't get called "two way players".  Its more the average players like Steens, and Stajans that get called it.  My point is it is better to use a 1st round pick on a player that might be an all star then a "two way player" which is code for a average player.

Well, first of all, I disagree that guys like Mike Richards or Pavel Datsyuk aren't called great two way players(type in "NHL two way player" into google and the NHL names that pop up are Datsyuk, Kovalchuk and Ron Francis). More to the point, though, is that I'm pretty sure that LK wasn't using the term as such.
Title: Re: JFJ to be next Columbus GM?
Post by: KW Sluggo on February 24, 2012, 10:09:57 PM
This would be the worst mistake anyone has ever made since the Leafs originally hired JFJ as GM.

To which I can only add: Hasn't Columbus suffered enough?