TMLfans.ca

Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 06:45:36 PM

Title: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 06:45:36 PM
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zee on October 10, 2020, 06:45:48 PM
Joey Anderson
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bender on October 10, 2020, 06:48:36 PM
Who the hell is Joey Anderson?
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 06:50:27 PM
Anderson doesn't sound like much. 3rd round pick back in 2016. He's a 22 year old right shot winger who played 34 games with the Devils in 18/19 and 18 games in 19/20. Sounds like a two-way winger who can kill penalties at best.

Clearly just a cap dump, which is unfortunate but considering the circumstances not surprising.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bender on October 10, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
Anderson doesn't sound like much. 3rd round pick back in 2016. He's a 23 year old right shot winger who played 34 games with the Devils in 18/19 and 18 games in 19/20. Sounds like a two-way winger who can kill penalties at best.

Clearly just a cap dump, which is unfortunate but considering the circumstances not surprising.
Why did they rush a cap dump? I felt like he might have some value with teams running out of FA options. Oh well, not much you can do when your injury prone. Wonder if there's anything else coming. Our 3rd line isn't looking great.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 06:54:29 PM
AJ for JA
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Arn on October 10, 2020, 06:56:57 PM
Is this trade just based on rotating their first names and surnames?

(Ha, Herman beat me to this hot take)
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zee on October 10, 2020, 06:57:07 PM
Well Dubas sure has been busy the last 2 days
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 06:59:32 PM
Captained the WJC team.

I think he?s a spare for now, like Boyd. Might be one of those AHL get?em before they break out checking forwards (Coleman - scoring)
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:01:21 PM
He averaged 1:58 in PK time in the 18 games he did play with the Devils last season so at least he's got that going for him.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:04:16 PM
He averaged 1:58 in PK time in the 18 games he did play with the Devils last season so at least he's got that going for him.

Definitely going to be groomed for the role Kapanen vacated, but with more brains.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: bustaheims on October 10, 2020, 07:04:33 PM
Don?t love the trade on its own, but, as part of the bigger picture, I understand it.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:10:38 PM
A bit of an overview of Anderson from a Devils blog for those interested:

Quote from: https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2020/8/31/21407554/will-joey-anderson-make-new-jersey-devils-roster-2020-21-binghamton-right-wing
The general description of Anderson as a player is that he is a two-way winger. He understands and respects the concept of playing defensively. He can be a part of a penalty kill, which he has already proven at the professional level. He works hard and has had leadership roles with the USNTDP and in college. At 22, I have doubts as to whether he can be a significant scorer. I do think he can be a solid winger for a NHL team?s bottom six.

...

Ultimately, I still have confidence that we could see Joey Anderson start the 2020-21 season with New Jersey instead of Binghamton. By no means it will be easy. Anderson needs to show up in camp and prepared to impress the coaches right away. Whether it is in drills, scrimmages, meetings, or exhibition games, Anderson will have the opportunities to impress the new head coach in Ruff and whoever will be on his staff and demonstrate his growth his the former assistant GM in Fitzgerald. He does have the advantage of having played over 50 games in the NHL and showing that he can at least play on a penalty kill in the NHL. Having both experience and being able to perform on a special team in the NHL could help tip the scales in Anderson?s favor. Can he do it? I think so. If he does, then I think he will make the roster right out of camp.

Seems like a guy who was in line to make the Devils roster this upcoming season, so maybe not a complete waste of space.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 07:11:58 PM
Why did they rush a cap dump? I felt like he might have some value with teams running out of FA options.

The flip side is that as teams commit cap space to FA's there'll be less teams willing to take on money. My hunch is that if the front office got the sense that there was serious interest in Johnsson from multiple teams, you'd have seen them hold on a while.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:12:54 PM
This was from a review of New Jersey's AHL team right before the season was stopped:

Quote from: https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2020/3/4/21158816/binghamton-devils-3rd-quarter-grades-player-evaluations
We've probably seen the last of him in the 607 unless we make the playoffs. Continued his strong play in Q3 albeit short, 4G in 7 GP. Will finish the AHL campaign with 15G 19A in 44GP. Played in every situation, and should bring that versatility to Newark in the future. Can see him consistently scoring 10-15 at the NHL level, with potential for more if he's given the ice time & special teams time he earned at the AHL level.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:19:09 PM
Dubas definitely going to come out to say Anderson was on their draft watch list and just unfortunately didn?t get picked up at their slot (Leafs picked JD Greenway just the pick before).
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 10, 2020, 07:19:49 PM
So for future reference, when Dubas says that Pridham has multiple ways to dance, that means that they are dumping salary anyway they can.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bill_Berg on October 10, 2020, 07:23:02 PM
I guess the NHL wouldn't allow an Johnsson for nothing trade?
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:25:09 PM
I hope Johnsson finds a good fit on Hischier?s wing and pots 30.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 10, 2020, 07:26:08 PM
I hope Johnsson finds a good fit on Hischier?s wing and pots 30.

Wouldn't that make this a really bad trade then?
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bill_Berg on October 10, 2020, 07:32:28 PM
I hope Johnsson finds a good fit on Hischier?s wing and pots 30.

Wouldn't that make this a really bad trade then?

I would say this trade is what it is regardless of how Johnsson does. It wasn't a value for value trade. It was a cap space dump.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Highlander on October 10, 2020, 07:38:05 PM
Cash dump, decent addition
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:40:48 PM

Rachel was an analyst in New Jersey's R&D department for a couple years so she's someone with some inside knowledge on Anderson.

I don't think we'll ever really look back on this trade and think the Leafs won it, but it's starting to look like Anderson definitely wasn't just some random throw-in to balance out the contracts. He could be a useful bottom-6 option as soon as this season.

Another note, he's younger than Johnsson was before he made the Leafs full time.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:43:00 PM
Coleman minus scoring it is  ;D
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:43:59 PM
Coleman minus scoring it is  ;D

"won't make risky decisions like the previous 3L wingers did" gee wonder who that's referring to...
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:46:42 PM
I think he?s a spare for now, like Boyd. Might be one of those AHL get?em before they break out checking forwards (Coleman - scoring)

Definitely going to be groomed for the role Kapanen vacated, but with more brains.

I had a feeling Dubas was hunting for these types of pieces before they ripen (and get free agent expensive).
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:49:40 PM
I hope Johnsson finds a good fit on Hischier?s wing and pots 30.

Wouldn't that make this a really bad trade then?

If your teams gets what it needs, does it really matter how much better they perform when given more opportunity they could not receive here?

Similar to Leivo and Brown, Johnsson?s got a really good shot at carving out a top line spot with a team that plays a stylistic fit for him (at least offensively).
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 10, 2020, 07:50:35 PM
I had a feeling Dubas was hunting for these types of pieces before they ripen (and get free agent expensive).

He's probably trying to sign him to a 8-year, $1mil AAV contract as we speak.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Highlander on October 10, 2020, 07:52:48 PM
Johnsson had to go for either a pick prospect.
We dumped needed cap space and found a player who may have some decent potential.
Necessary but let?s face it even if it?s wash its good, better than a 2nd or third
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Frycer14 on October 10, 2020, 07:55:59 PM
Too bad johnsson was hurt this year, I guess they should be happy with a cap dump on it's own.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 07:57:50 PM
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Frycer14 on October 10, 2020, 07:58:10 PM
I think he?s a spare for now, like Boyd. Might be one of those AHL get?em before they break out checking forwards (Coleman - scoring)

Definitely going to be groomed for the role Kapanen vacated, but with more brains.

I had a feeling Dubas was hunting for these types of pieces before they ripen (and get free agent expensive).

Just because Dubas acquires someone no one's heard of doesn't automatically mean he's a diamond in the rough every time.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 08:03:09 PM
I think he?s a spare for now, like Boyd. Might be one of those AHL get?em before they break out checking forwards (Coleman - scoring)

Definitely going to be groomed for the role Kapanen vacated, but with more brains.

I had a feeling Dubas was hunting for these types of pieces before they ripen (and get free agent expensive).

Just because Dubas acquires someone no one's heard of doesn't automatically mean he's a diamond in the rough every time.

Sure but it?s a 1-for-1 trade. Every manager is looking for a diamond in the rough in these deals.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Dappleganger on October 10, 2020, 08:04:42 PM
I'm gonna say it, Leafs are signing Hall.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 10, 2020, 08:05:16 PM
I hope Johnsson finds a good fit on Hischier?s wing and pots 30.

Wouldn't that make this a really bad trade then?

If your teams gets what it needs, does it really matter how much better they perform when given more opportunity they could not receive here?

Similar to Leivo and Brown, Johnsson?s got a really good shot at carving out a top line spot with a team that plays a stylistic fit for him (at least offensively).


Well I would say that if you invested the money in the player that then forced you to move said player for pennies on the dollar, then that might come across as poor asset management.

I get the Leafs won't win every trade, but if you give up a 30 goal scorer and the player you get back can't play in the NHL them I think that might go in to the loss category because somewhere along the line player evaluation has failed.

Look at the Panarin for Saad deal.  Chicago thought they were getting what their team needed.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 08:17:54 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/

Quote
While Anderson isn?t the biggest player in stature, he has a strong and thick base, which makes him difficult to separate from the puck. He also likes to bring a physical style of play in all areas of the ice.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 10, 2020, 08:19:18 PM
What Nik said hits it on the head, but still this has a Kadri-ish odor about it.  I think Dubas is better at signing FAs than trading people.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Joe S. on October 10, 2020, 08:22:12 PM
Kerfoot for Kadri next? I say yes. Reality however might be against me.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 10, 2020, 08:27:47 PM
What Nik said hits it on the head, but still this has a Kadri-ish odor about it.  I think Dubas is better at signing FAs than trading people.

I was actually going to say the other way around.  I think that Dubas is pretty good at getting what he wants out of a deal.  The Kadri deal didn't work out, but he got what he wanted from it in a right shot defenceman that could move the puck, and a third line center with some versatility.  The Kapanen deal was also pretty good. 

Even in this deal, I think that Dubas maximized what he could get for the player.  However, the contracts that Dubas gives out seem to be fair deals for the players, and in a cap world that gets you in to trouble after a while.  I think that either it was a mistake to give Johnsson that contract last year, or it was a mistake to trade him for the amount that he did.

If Johnsson outperforms his deal, then he probably didn't get enough for a player that is on a cheap contract for a couple more seasons.  If Johnsson under performs, then that would mean his deal is an over payment.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 10, 2020, 08:36:16 PM
What Nik said hits it on the head, but still this has a Kadri-ish odor about it.  I think Dubas is better at signing FAs than trading people.

I was actually going to say the other way around.  I think that Dubas is pretty good at getting what he wants out of a deal.  The Kadri deal didn't work out, but he got what he wanted from it in a right shot defenceman that could move the puck, and a third line center with some versatility.  The Kapanen deal was also pretty good. 

Even in this deal, I think that Dubas maximized what he could get for the player.  However, the contracts that Dubas gives out seem to be fair deals for the players, and in a cap world that gets you in to trouble after a while.  I think that either it was a mistake to give Johnsson that contract last year, or it was a mistake to trade him for the amount that he did.

If Johnsson outperforms his deal, then he probably didn't get enough for a player that is on a cheap contract for a couple more seasons.  If Johnsson under performs, then that would mean his deal is an over payment.

Too early to say about Kapanen, but going back to Kadri he's now traded three top 6 forwards and got 1 top 6 forward (Kerfoot) back (so far) + Barrie who was exactly what the team didn't need.  Of course Hallander and Amirov are in the future.

I would have preferred a Johnsson for picks deal.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 10, 2020, 08:41:16 PM
The middle class is what gets shed in a cap situation. Yeah we lost the offensive player value equation of this trade, but we got cap space for TJ Brodie and the exact type of player many people wanted Dubas to spend draft picks on (big butt bangers, but with less wait time), for a 7th rounder Dubas invested enough development into to yield a 20-g NHL winger.

Kadri, Johnsson, and Kapanen needed more ice time to max out, but that?s not worth taking time away from Tavares, Matthews, Marner, and Nylander. They could not do what the Leafs hoped they could do with less. So they are pivoting to a more traditional bottom 6 arrangement.

This is part of a net gain.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 08:46:29 PM
The middle class is what gets shed in a cap situation. Yeah we lost the offensive player value equation of this trade, but we got cap space for TJ Brodie and the exact type of player many people wanted Dubas to spend draft picks on (big butt bangers, but with less wait time), for a 7th rounder Dubas invested enough development into to yield a 20-g NHL winger.

I don't think many people wanted Dubas to spend draft picks on small grinder types with so-so offensive potential, regardless of the size of their butts.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 10, 2020, 09:00:10 PM
Why did they rush a cap dump? I felt like he might have some value with teams running out of FA options.

The flip side is that as teams commit cap space to FA's there'll be less teams willing to take on money. My hunch is that if the front office got the sense that there was serious interest in Johnsson from multiple teams, you'd have seen them hold on a while.
Absolutely Nik. They need to dump when they can. You don't want to have to find a dance partner late in the evening and end up with no partner.
Robertson makes Johnsson expendable.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Kaberle15 on October 10, 2020, 09:16:28 PM
Love Mango time in TO. Great guy.

Cap hell casualty. Wishing him all the best.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 10, 2020, 10:21:13 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/ (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/)

I think this analysis says it all.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: princedpw on October 10, 2020, 10:25:50 PM
What Nik said hits it on the head, but still this has a Kadri-ish odor about it.  I think Dubas is better at signing FAs than trading people.

I was actually going to say the other way around.  I think that Dubas is pretty good at getting what he wants out of a deal.  The Kadri deal didn't work out, but he got what he wanted from it in a right shot defenceman that could move the puck, and a third line center with some versatility.  The Kapanen deal was also pretty good. 

Even in this deal, I think that Dubas maximized what he could get for the player.  However, the contracts that Dubas gives out seem to be fair deals for the players, and in a cap world that gets you in to trouble after a while.  I think that either it was a mistake to give Johnsson that contract last year, or it was a mistake to trade him for the amount that he did.

If Johnsson outperforms his deal, then he probably didn't get enough for a player that is on a cheap contract for a couple more seasons.  If Johnsson under performs, then that would mean his deal is an over payment.

The circumstances between when he was signed and now changed significantly.  Covid changed the league financial outlook and cap enormously.  The Leafs failed in the playoffs.  Johnsson was injured and his value decreased.  If Johnsson were signing now, he?d certainly be signed for less.  Still, the signing at the time seemed liked a fine one for the leafs.  And it turned out fine ? we got a prospect and didn?t have to pay to get rid of Johnsson at least, despite his down year and the changing finances of the league.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 10, 2020, 10:31:42 PM
Who the hell is Joey Anderson?

Exactly my first thoughts. Amazing how we let potential free agents walk and trade decent forwards for nothing. Why wouldn't you try and recoup some draft picks.
Guess we knew this was coming after the horrible signings of our stars.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 10:39:44 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/ (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/)

I think this analysis says it all.

I don't really understand why you'd acknowledge that this was a salary dump and then be like "but in terms of player for player it's a loss for the Leafs".

Like, either evaluate a trade in the context of a capped league or don't. You're not going to win on assets if a trade is a cost cutting measure. The "win" is cap space.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bullfrog on October 10, 2020, 10:44:01 PM
I'm fine with this trade. I have a lot of confidence that Mikheyev will more than replace what Johnsson could bring.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 10, 2020, 10:48:31 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/ (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2020/10/11/andreas-johnsson-traded-to-the-new-jersey-devils-in-exchange-for-joey-anderson/)

I think this analysis says it all.

I don't really understand why you'd acknowledge that this was a salary dump and then be like "but in terms of player for player it's a loss for the Leafs".

Like, either evaluate a trade in the context of a capped league or don't. You're not going to win on assets if a trade is a cost cutting measure. The "win" is cap space.

He's just acknowledging the other side of the coin.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Deebo on October 10, 2020, 10:53:46 PM
Who the hell is Joey Anderson?

Exactly my first thoughts. Amazing how we let potential free agents walk and trade decent forwards for nothing. Why wouldn't you try and recoup some draft picks.
Guess we knew this was coming after the horrible signings of our stars.

Did you look at anything that has been written about Anderson?
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 10:57:53 PM
He's just acknowledging the other side of the coin.

Again, I really don't think "The team didn't improve itself with this salary dump" is something that needs to be said. Evaluate the players individually, sure, but how they compare to each other is immaterial to the motivations of the trade.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 10, 2020, 11:05:40 PM
Who the hell is Joey Anderson?

Exactly my first thoughts. Amazing how we let potential free agents walk and trade decent forwards for nothing. Why wouldn't you try and recoup some draft picks.
Guess we knew this was coming after the horrible signings of our stars.

Did you look at anything that has been written about Anderson?

Yes I did not reading anything overwhelming. I understand the situation Leafs are in and some of these guys have to go.
My point is we let a whack of free agents walk with no return and we trade decent players for in my opinion not much. Leafs knew we were going to be in this situation so why not trade some of these guys when their value might be better and recoup some picks. Players Dubas has found overseas like Mikheyev, Lehtonen, Barbanov can fill these voids but would be nice to garnish some draft choices or decent return while a players value might be higher. Should have traded AJ before he was hurt.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 11:18:54 PM
Should have traded AJ before he was hurt.

Yup. That's what they should have done. Immediately after his promising rookie year, the Leafs should have traded him because they knew he'd be hurt the next year and wouldn't help them in their hoped for playoff run.

Just stunning analysis.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 10, 2020, 11:44:13 PM
Should have traded AJ before he was hurt.

Yup. That's what they should have done. Immediately after his promising rookie year, the Leafs should have traded him because they knew he'd be hurt the next year and wouldn't help them in their hoped for playoff run.

Just stunning analysis.

Nothing?s changed has it?
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 10, 2020, 11:52:41 PM
Nothing?s changed has it?

Hmmm, has something changed that might have put the Leafs in a bigger cap crunch then they might otherwise have been in and forced them to make cost cuttings they couldn't have foreseen...hmmm...huh...that's a tough one...gosh...let me think about that stumper for a few more minutes...huh...

In a totally unrelated gesture, let me take a big sip of water and read the newspaper for the first time since March.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Deebo on October 11, 2020, 12:29:32 AM
Yes I did not reading anything overwhelming.

Carlton posted this from someone who worked in the Devils front office:



Physical, wins battles, skates well, makes good decisions with the puck.

Sounds like a player that would like, considering what you post in the GDTs

Should have traded AJ before he was hurt.

When exactly would have been the right time to trade him?

As nik said, he was coming off a 20 goal rookie season, got injured February of the next season and then the pandemic hit. I don't see when they should have traded him
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 07:26:30 AM
Anderson...Hyman 2.0? That's what I've read. He plays like Hyman. Who heard of Hyman before the Leafs got him? If, and that's a big if, the roster stays as is, Engvall or Anderson start in the minors. Both are waiver exempt.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 11, 2020, 08:00:50 AM
Anderson awaits a new contract. He?s a 10.2(c) RFA: basically no negotiating leverage. Leafs could tender him a 725k AAV over two years one-way and he?d jump on that. AHL avoids escrow.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Frank E on October 11, 2020, 08:19:09 AM
Anderson awaits a new contract. He?s a 10.2(c) RFA: basically no negotiating leverage. Leafs could tender him a 725k AAV over two years one-way and he?d jump on that. AHL avoids escrow.

Agreed.

Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 08:53:00 AM
Anderson awaits a new contract. He?s a 10.2(c) RFA: basically no negotiating leverage. Leafs could tender him a 725k AAV over two years one-way and he?d jump on that. AHL avoids escrow.

Agreed.


X2
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 11, 2020, 11:45:49 AM
Yes I did not reading anything overwhelming.

Carlton posted this from someone who worked in the Devils front office:



Physical, wins battles, skates well, makes good decisions with the puck.

Sounds like a player that would like, considering what you post in the GDTs

Should have traded AJ before he was hurt.

When exactly would have been the right time to trade him?

As nik said, he was coming off a 20 goal rookie season, got injured February of the next season and then the pandemic hit. I don't see when they should have traded him

Point I'm trying to make is I think they could have done better not only with AJ but also all the free agents we have let go for nothing. Yes Nik hard to trade guys when you're trying to win a cup but the Leafs the last 3 tears have not had a team to win 4 playoff rounds so I would have traded guys like JVR, Bozak etc etc to recoup some draft choices and maybe just maybe those picks may have allowed you to draft somebody that could help you today. Young player on n ELC that could fill a void. Dubas is in a bind (his own doing) and teams aren't going to pay to pickup any of our guys that may be traded. Again all boils down to the signing of the big 3 that put us in this predicament.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Joe S. on October 11, 2020, 11:52:21 AM
Jesus... still with the JVR and Bozak? Move on man.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Nik on October 11, 2020, 12:04:42 PM

Even if you thought the Leafs weren't good enough for a playoff run it still didn't make sense to trade Johnsson. It made much more sense to go into this summer with him coming off a strong season and, if necessary, trading him then. The problem was he got hurt, which nobody could have foreseen, and the cap stagnated which, again, nobody could have foreseen.

That really has nothing to do with decisions Lamoriello made about JVR or Bozak or even Dubas' decision to put the team in cap constraints via signing Tavares.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 12:27:07 PM
Jesus... still with the JVR and Bozak? Move on man.
No kidding. Dog on a bone.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: L K on October 11, 2020, 12:34:43 PM
Jesus... still with the JVR and Bozak? Move on man.

We can play the game that way far further back too.   It?s a tiny variation on 1967 as if Marner/Nylander/Matthews/Dubas are responsible for the cup drought.

Not trading them was a mistake.   Having Horachek be an ass to Kesse for the last 20 games of the year was a mistake.   Trading for a Kessel in the first place was a mistake.   Drafting Tyler Biggs and Brad Ross was a mistake.   Signing Jeff Finger was a mistake.   Getting rid of Anton Stralman was a mistake.  And on and on and on.

The value is not a great return on Johnsson but he came off one big injury and then had a second big injury.   He just wasn?t going to have significant value at that point.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Deebo on October 11, 2020, 12:48:46 PM

Point I'm trying to make is I think they could have done better not only with AJ

But you have you haven't made that point, you just keep saying it.

When should they have made this hypothetical deal where they could have done better?

There was no reason to trade him coming off his rookie season, then he got hurt, then the pandemic caused the flat cap and faciliated the need for the trade.

No matter what Marner makes. 3.4M for AJ in this flat cap situation isn't a great use of cap dollars on this roster. Dubas got a someone that fits everything you seem to like in a player in a market where moving salary has been difficult. A player that would that would be drafted with a mid round pick that you seem to want for AJ, but already with a couple years of developent and a chance to contribute elements that this team has been lacking this up coming season.



Yes, Lou probably should have traded JVR and Bozak and not burned 2nd rounders on 4th line rentals, but that's what he did. It really isn't relevant to this trade though.

With all due respect, you don't seem interested in a discussion. You don't adress any counterpoints presented to you, and just repeat the same stuff in any reply.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 11, 2020, 12:48:56 PM
Johnsson for Anderson + Cap Space should not be that difficult to comprehend.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Highlander on October 11, 2020, 01:15:23 PM

Point I'm trying to make is I think they could have done better not only with AJ

But you have you haven't made that point, you just keep saying it.

When should they have made this hypothetical deal where they could have done better?

There was no reason to trade him coming off his rookie season, then he got hurt, then the pandemic caused the flat cap and faciliated the need for the trade.

No matter what Marner makes. 3.4M for AJ in this flat cap situation isn't a great use of cap dollars on this roster. Dubas got a someone that fits everything you seem to like in a player in a market where moving salary has been difficult. A player that would that would be drafted with a mid round pick that you seem to want for AJ, but already with a couple years of developent and a chance to contribute elements that this team has been lacking this up coming season.



Yes, Lou probably should have traded JVR and Bozak and not burned 2nd rounders on 4th line rentals, but that's what he did. It really isn't relevant to this trade though.

With all due respect, you don't seem interested in a discussion. You don't adress any counterpoints presented to you, and just repeat the same stuff in any reply.
All teams go through this, just read the Athletic article about the Blackhawks today, their fans are complaining about the very same thing, not getting picks for the departed.  It happens, move on. 
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bender on October 11, 2020, 01:52:36 PM
Every team in the league who paid their players fair value got screwed. Every team who didn't trade players who ended up having not great seasons got screwed. The Leafs don't operate in a vacuum. Most cap teams are dealing with some level of fallout for things that couldn't have been predicted when those deals were signed.

Also, I'm fairly certain Azzurri would be bitching about trading JVR/Bozak as they were making the playoffs if they missed or got bounced. "Missed opportunity, could've given playoff experience to the kids, wasted a year for no reason when they were on the cusp etc." Doesn't matter when everything is viewed when looking back at it rather than in the moment, the person in charge can only do wrong. Anyone who thinks they're right 100% of the time or act like they have all the answers vs. someone else without any justification is basically full of you know what.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 11, 2020, 02:03:19 PM
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bender on October 11, 2020, 02:29:14 PM
It'll be very interesting to see how he develops. He's got a decent amt of points at the AHL level and only just turned 22 in June. Leafs would probably rather have him than picks at this point as he looks like he could be ready sooner than a pick would be.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: herman on October 11, 2020, 03:06:33 PM
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: L K on October 11, 2020, 03:37:11 PM
You know I like Thai trade even more now that Steve Simmons is trying to shit on it.   I get the media doesn?t have to love every move but the guy is a blatant troll at this point.   Take his press pass away.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Frank E on October 11, 2020, 04:06:04 PM
You know I like Thai trade even more now that Steve Simmons is trying to shit on it.   I get the media doesn?t have to love every move but the guy is a blatant troll at this point.   Take his press pass away.

I'm not really knowledgeable on Thai trade.  How does Simmons even have an opinion. 
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bill_Berg on October 11, 2020, 04:39:46 PM
You know I like Thai trade even more now that Steve Simmons is trying to shit on it.   I get the media doesn?t have to love every move but the guy is a blatant troll at this point.   Take his press pass away.

I'm not really knowledgeable on Thai trade.  How does Simmons even have an opinion.

He's got an opinion on everything. 
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 05:31:58 PM
You know I like Thai trade even more now that Steve Simmons is trying to shit on it.   I get the media doesn?t have to love every move but the guy is a blatant troll at this point.   Take his press pass away.

I'm not really knowledgeable on Thai trade.  How does Simmons even have an opinion.

He's got an opinion on everything. 

He's an asshat. I read part of an artivle where he praised Dubas for the Bodie and Simmonds moves and then said something negative in the next line or paragraph. I stopped reading then. I can't believe how much hate there is for Dubas from Simmonds to other experts. Always critical about his vision and doesn't value grit. I'm like did this guy not build the Marlies into a winner? He knows what it takes to win. This team is now finally his. He's gotten rid of all the past mistakes and now it's all on him. I think this has probably been the hardest off season ever to add quality/change the make up of a team and yet so far, he's done a great job. There isn't a move that I don't like yet. I still think he may not be done. Lots of time before the season starts.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 11, 2020, 06:52:41 PM
Jesus... still with the JVR and Bozak? Move on man.

Definitely over it but point is if you're going to lose someone whether by free agency or trade at least get something back. I get it. Leafs are in tough with the cap so had to shuffle someone out. See what we have in the young forward if he cracks the lineup.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: azzurri63 on October 11, 2020, 06:57:58 PM
Every team in the league who paid their players fair value got screwed. Every team who didn't trade players who ended up having not great seasons got screwed. The Leafs don't operate in a vacuum. Most cap teams are dealing with some level of fallout for things that couldn't have been predicted when those deals were signed.

Also, I'm fairly certain Azzurri would be bitching about trading JVR/Bozak as they were making the playoffs if they missed or got bounced. "Missed opportunity, could've given playoff experience to the kids, wasted a year for no reason when they were on the cusp etc." Doesn't matter when everything is viewed when looking back at it rather than in the moment, the person in charge can only do wrong. Anyone who thinks they're right 100% of the time or act like they have all the answers vs. someone else without any justification is basically full of you know what.

So you think we paid Marner or Matthews fair value? I sure the hell don't think so and I said it then we were going to be fun'd because of it and now you're seeing that.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 07:03:17 PM
Jesus... still with the JVR and Bozak? Move on man.

Definitely over it but point is if you're going to lose someone whether by free agency or trade at least get something back. I get it. Leafs are in tough with the cap so had to shuffle someone out. See what we have in the young forward if he cracks the lineup.
I think people will be surprised with Anderson. If he can become Hyman 2.0 it'll be a steal for us.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 11, 2020, 07:12:28 PM

So you think we paid Marner or Matthews fair value? I sure the hell don't think so and I said it then we were going to be fun'd because of it and now you're seeing that.
Matthews, yes. Marner, no. I think 9 would have been a good contract for him but it is what it is and he's still a 94 point guy. And we're not fun'd. There are lots of teams up against the cap. Dubas has done a nice little dance here and improved the team and future while disposing of the underachieving while keeping the big 4, aka the core, together.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Deebo on October 11, 2020, 11:20:29 PM
I said it then we were going to be fun'd because of it and now you're seeing that.

No we aren't.
Title: Re: Johnsson traded to the Devils
Post by: Bender on October 12, 2020, 02:38:48 AM
Every team in the league who paid their players fair value got screwed. Every team who didn't trade players who ended up having not great seasons got screwed. The Leafs don't operate in a vacuum. Most cap teams are dealing with some level of fallout for things that couldn't have been predicted when those deals were signed.

Also, I'm fairly certain Azzurri would be bitching about trading JVR/Bozak as they were making the playoffs if they missed or got bounced. "Missed opportunity, could've given playoff experience to the kids, wasted a year for no reason when they were on the cusp etc." Doesn't matter when everything is viewed when looking back at it rather than in the moment, the person in charge can only do wrong. Anyone who thinks they're right 100% of the time or act like they have all the answers vs. someone else without any justification is basically full of you know what.

So you think we paid Marner or Matthews fair value? I sure the hell don't think so and I said it then we were going to be fun'd because of it and now you're seeing that.
I'm saying your schtick of doing literally nothing but saying how right you are all the time either by actually being right or, more usually, using revisionist history, continues to be nothing short of grating.