Big Pharma claims a drug derived from quercetin (from apples, garlic, onions & other plants) will be effective for coronavirus. BTW it's available in health stores. A made-in-Canada solution to the coronavirus outbreak? - https://t.co/zG0jPcV4vN https://t.co/L8ZHAd7Hyg
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) February 29, 2020
Vitamin C gets a welcome boost for corona virus treatments in China. The rest of the world needs to realize the same benefits. https://t.co/ksFmlOrk2x
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) February 24, 2020
Get some real protection and treatment that works. Coronavirus Protection and Treatment: Top 10 Natural Remedies https://t.co/ygg5RDzSQf
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) February 24, 2020
Finally a good news, happy report about the dreaded, over-hyped and paranoia driven Carona virus. Enjoy your planned vacations worry free. https://t.co/d7yQKQ9Emx
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) March 5, 2020
Welcome news indeed.This is so insanely circumstantial.Finally a good news, happy report about the dreaded, over-hyped and paranoia driven Carona virus. Enjoy your planned vacations worry free. https://t.co/d7yQKQ9Emx
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) March 5, 2020
good lord, people. Vitamin C will not prevent or treat the coronavirus. Your body needs a certain amount; after that, you're literally pissing money down the drain.
good lord, people. Vitamin C will not prevent or treat the coronavirus. Your body needs a certain amount; after that, you're literally pissing money down the drain.
What about silver? That'll help right?
(https://d1hfln2sfez66z.cloudfront.net/03-08-2020/t_a0483157abf34ff1aaa08d5eb29f0aab_name_04BCFE04B1684BA9A9727BEAF9E044E2.jpg)
good lord, people. Vitamin C will not prevent or treat the coronavirus. Your body needs a certain amount; after that, you're literally pissing money down the drain.
Let's help each other instead of playing games of one-upmanship.
Let's help each other instead of playing games of one-upmanship.
I can't disagree more. No one is served by half baked theories by "experts" and naturopathic nonsense; in fact, it creates more confusion and dilutes proper advice.
I really think everyone here has the best intentions and no one should be ridiculed for trying to help. We are all going through this together. This virus is the great leveller, it doesn't matter what your background or social status is, its going to touch rich and poor all the same.
If one of us recommends Vitamin C, then this is good, do you own due diligence before you act (or ridicule). It only makes sense to take a great Vitamin C supplement, as it is proven to bolster immune systems. When I suggest NAC, instead of ridicule, look at it, do your due diligence and make your own informed decisions. I am open to all suggestions, as I will investigate all claims and make my own decisions. Let's help each other instead of playing games of one-upmanship.
No one ever said snake oil didn't sell.
Personally, my preparations for the virus are largely hoarding related. Laugh if you want but I'm going to be the pudding cup king of our post-apocalyptic wasteland.
Consuming the things you're hoarding is entry level piker mentality.
These are commodities to be bartered with. Mainly for fuel from Lord Humungous, then use the leftover for whoever corners the market in human trafficking to put together a post-apocalyptic version of the Leafs. My hunch is I can get Nylander for two snack-pack Butterscotch, Ceci for a half empty store brand fat free chocolate.
I really think everyone here has the best intentions and no one should be ridiculed for trying to help. We are all going through this together. This virus is the great leveller, it doesn't matter what your background or social status is, its going to touch rich and poor all the same.How is taking something with a grain of salt because something is entirely unsubstantiated cheapen the discussion or anything of that sort? Personally I think it's morally irresponsible to make unsubstantiated health claims on a message board, period, and if you can't take the skepticism coming, which comes from a place generally of good faith, then I really don't know what to tell you or anyone else who can't take even the most basic level of scrutiny for making that claim.
If one of us recommends Vitamin C, then this is good, do you own due diligence before you act (or ridicule). It only makes sense to take a great Vitamin C supplement, as it is proven to bolster immune systems. When I suggest NAC, instead of ridicule, look at it, do your due diligence and make your own informed decisions. I am open to all suggestions, as I will investigate all claims and make my own decisions. Let's help each other instead of playing games of one-upmanship.
I don't think anyone would care if someone came in here and said "I eat 5 bananas a day and I feel great! I think they're the key to good health" because that sort of thing is easy enough to take or leave. I think what rubs some people the wrong way is trying to add the veneer of authority to it with second hand medical endorsements or trying to ascribe specific health benefits to products without medical education or evidence.
Like, as a for instance, I've heard lots of people say that taking vitamin supplements essentially does nothing for you that a balanced diet with a lot of nutrient rich food wouldn't already do. Despite that, because I was raised in kind of a hippy-ish household, I take a daily multi-vitamin. I like taking something that I at least think may help with my health.
But I'd never say, you know, I'm in pretty good health generally so the vitamin must be working or, you know, that it healed me of a specific condition because I don't have the first idea if that's true or not.
Ordinary people do not need masks and should not be buying masks. Doing so will deplete the supply of masks, which are needed by healthcare professionals.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/29/health/coronavirus-n95-face-masks.html
In general, if someone is promulgating incorrect medical information, it is important to speak up and let people know it is incorrect. Incorrect information about medicine leads to things like people not getting vaccinated and then getting the flu or measles and dying. Of course, when correcting misinformation, we dont have to be a$$holes.
good lord, people. Vitamin C will not prevent or treat the coronavirus. Your body needs a certain amount; after that, you're literally pissing money down the drain.
What about silver? That'll help right?
(https://d1hfln2sfez66z.cloudfront.net/03-08-2020/t_a0483157abf34ff1aaa08d5eb29f0aab_name_04BCFE04B1684BA9A9727BEAF9E044E2.jpg)
If Nik wants to waste $8 a month on a multivitamin, that's harmless (except for the danger of him getting too much iron or other minerals).
BREAKING: A D.C. priest has Coronavirus. He offered communion and shook hands with more than 500 worshippers last week and on February 24th. All worshippers who visited the Christ Church in Georgetown must self-quarantine. Church is cancelled for the first time since the 1800's
— Sam Sweeney (@SweeneyABC) March 9, 2020
Hockey Fan is right on, we can discount Hockey Fan or myself or other posters as this is SM. Fact of the matter if I read correctly is Hockey Fan has invested in herself, her time, her self education, in order to have a better life for herself. This is worth something. For myself much the same, years and years of educating myself and then to be discarded as a "snake oil salesman", what a laugh. I have a lot of other fish to fry right now.
For myself much the same, years and years of educating myself and then to be discarded as a "snake oil salesman", what a laugh.
I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.
We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?
A stiff drink or three? I wouldnt get too concerned by it right now. Drops like this usually rebound once the panic subsides.
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?I'm in the same situation, I would say enjoy the simple things in life, be out in the nature, hang out with people that you like and put your focuse on something else.
The entire country of Italy will be in quarantee now...
1/ I may be repeating myself, but I want to fight this sense of security that I see outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen "here". The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there's little to be reassured of. #COVID19 #coronavirus
— Silvia Stringhini (@silviast9) March 9, 2020
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?
A stiff drink or three? I wouldnt get too concerned by it right now. Drops like this usually rebound once the panic subsides.
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?
This might help:
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm#007 (https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/ch01.htm#007)
We'll all sleep better come the revolution.
We'll all sleep better come the revolution.
Not me, I like our present way.
The entire country of Italy will be in quarantee now...
An interesting, scary twitter thread from within a hospital in Italy worth reading:1/ I may be repeating myself, but I want to fight this sense of security that I see outside of the epicenters, as if nothing was going to happen "here". The media in Europe are reassuring, politicians are reassuring, while there's little to be reassured of. #COVID19 #coronavirus
— Silvia Stringhini (@silviast9) March 9, 2020
Were beginning to see cases here in Ireland, northern and republic. At Patricks day parades have been cancelled and I feel it might not be long until we have similar lockdowns to Italy.
I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
Vitamins and natural products in general have never killed people except in certain cases compared to the number of people who die from medication complications in hospitals (and that is a well-known fact).
https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages (https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages)
Also, Id like to remind you that the FDA has never approved of a single natural product. They are stacked with former Pharma executives who march to each others beat. The FDA was originally set up by pharmaceuticals to push their own interests.
In Ontario, under the premiership of the David Peterson government, then health minister Monte Kwinter passed legislation that to this day stands:
https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/ (https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/)
The incredible navet of some of you people on this board is mind boggling. Its pretty obvious none of you know next to nothing about the history of medicine, pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine, the struggles some doctors went through in helping their patients achieve better health vs medical boards, mistreatment of women by mainstream medicine (from the past), etc., etc.
I know what Im doing with my health. While it still isnt where it should be and may never be, its helping me cope with whatever symptoms I have to keep me alive and to be able to enjoy Leafs hockey. 🙂
Natural/integrative medical modalities have saved my life and I continue to stand by it. While I am currently under no prescribed medications, I understand that they too can be life-saving.
Once again, let me reiterate that no one is advocating people throw out their medicines, but if there is a way to a 50-50 approach or even greater, then all the better for patient outcome. Medications all have side-defects, it practically comes with the territory and there really isnt much one can do about some greater and some minor, and taking them whatever they may be can cause long-term organ and general health damage to cells.
Many doctors privately believe herbs are better than drugs, just as effective in the longer term. Herbs have been around for thousands of years, long before pharmaceuticals were ever invented.
Everything has its risks do not self-medicate not even for natural products, always seek out the advice of a healthcare practitioner which is why a pragmatic, practical, and realistic approach for ones health is truly the best advice.
Lets face it, nutrition and health & wellness have become the lexicon on everyones lips. It runs the gamut from health professionals to exercise & wellness experts.
What some of us may not know is that many of those in the natural medicine field were long endorsing the usage of supplementation in its various forms, healthy eating habits, body/mind de stressing techniques, etcetera, etcetera, way before anyone had ever heard of it en masse. Thats who we have to thank long before the science behind it.
We'll all sleep better come the revolution.
Not me, I like our present way.
Your commitment to individual self interest has been noted and will be remembered when the pudding cups are distributed, comrade.
No, Nik I am a super informed consumer of NAC. If the WHO states that NAC is an essential nutrient for all of us to consume on a daily basis, then I am good with that. I am no Rube, Nik. I have done a ton of research on NAC and believe me, years of research. So I am not being hustled, I am being smart. And yes it has worked for me in the miracle way I have stated. I just tell everyone who cares to listen, do not believe me, but look for the information yourself. So were is the problem with this? I have no vested interested in the sales of NAC, but believe me I wish I did.For myself much the same, years and years of educating myself and then to be discarded as a "snake oil salesman", what a laugh.
I don't think anyone accused you of selling the snake oil. In the immortal words of the great philosopher Dr. Shawn Carter, they're hustlers, you're customers.
Agreed that is a lot of the D. I would cut that down to around 4IU. Doctor Highlander has spoken.I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.
We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.
Can anyone suggest something I can take to deal with the stockmarket beating I've taken in the last week?Yes a case of Dos Equis, stay away for the Corona.. Oh keep the lime for Vitamin C.
Better for a re-view of Doctor Zhivago to see the real effects of revolution. Comrade. "There is no personal life in Russia anymore". "Strelnikov
We'll all sleep better come the revolution.
Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested. I use 3000mg of C daily and more if I feel the need. I have a weakened immune system and was constantly dealing with infections to the point that many antibiotics no longer work for me. Since I started using vitamin C for internal infections and oregano oil for scratches, cuts and burns I have been antibiotic free for over 5 years.
So were is the problem with this?
Better for a re-view of Doctor Zhivago to see the real effects of revolution. Comrade. "There is no personal life in Russia anymore". "Strelnikov
Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested. I use 3000mg of C daily and more if I feel the need. I have a weakened immune system and was constantly dealing with infections to the point that many antibiotics no longer work for me. Since I started using vitamin C for internal infections and oregano oil for scratches, cuts and burns I have been antibiotic free for over 5 years.
Thank goodness those supplements and vitamins are free and completely not created and sold by profitable corporations.
I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
Vitamins and natural products in general have never killed people except in certain cases compared to the number of people who die from medication complications in hospitals (and that is a well-known fact).
https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages (https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages)
Also, Id like to remind you that the FDA has never approved of a single natural product. They are stacked with former Pharma executives who march to each others beat. The FDA was originally set up by pharmaceuticals to push their own interests.
In Ontario, under the premiership of the David Peterson government, then health minister Monte Kwinter passed legislation that to this day stands:
https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/ (https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/)
The incredible navet of some of you people on this board is mind boggling. Its pretty obvious none of you know next to nothing about the history of medicine, pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine, the struggles some doctors went through in helping their patients achieve better health vs medical boards, mistreatment of women by mainstream medicine (from the past), etc., etc.
I know what Im doing with my health. While it still isnt where it should be and may never be, its helping me cope with whatever symptoms I have to keep me alive and to be able to enjoy Leafs hockey. 🙂
Natural/integrative medical modalities have saved my life and I continue to stand by it. While I am currently under no prescribed medications, I understand that they too can be life-saving.
Once again, let me reiterate that no one is advocating people throw out their medicines, but if there is a way to a 50-50 approach or even greater, then all the better for patient outcome. Medications all have side-defects, it practically comes with the territory and there really isnt much one can do about some greater and some minor, and taking them whatever they may be can cause long-term organ and general health damage to cells.
Many doctors privately believe herbs are better than drugs, just as effective in the longer term. Herbs have been around for thousands of years, long before pharmaceuticals were ever invented.
Everything has its risks do not self-medicate not even for natural products, always seek out the advice of a healthcare practitioner which is why a pragmatic, practical, and realistic approach for ones health is truly the best advice.
Lets face it, nutrition and health & wellness have become the lexicon on everyones lips. It runs the gamut from health professionals to exercise & wellness experts.
What some of us may not know is that many of those in the natural medicine field were long endorsing the usage of supplementation in its various forms, healthy eating habits, body/mind de stressing techniques, etcetera, etcetera, way before anyone had ever heard of it en masse. Thats who we have to thank long before the science behind it.
Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested.
Academic researchers make a lot less money than you think to publish most work and generally disclose any additional funding.I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
Vitamins and natural products in general have never killed people except in certain cases compared to the number of people who die from medication complications in hospitals (and that is a well-known fact).
https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages (https://ethics.harvard.edu/blog/new-prescription-drugs-major-health-risk-few-offsetting-advantages)
Also, Id like to remind you that the FDA has never approved of a single natural product. They are stacked with former Pharma executives who march to each others beat. The FDA was originally set up by pharmaceuticals to push their own interests.
In Ontario, under the premiership of the David Peterson government, then health minister Monte Kwinter passed legislation that to this day stands:
https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/ (https://vitalitymagazine.com/article/ode-great-politician/amp/)
The incredible navet of some of you people on this board is mind boggling. Its pretty obvious none of you know next to nothing about the history of medicine, pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine, the struggles some doctors went through in helping their patients achieve better health vs medical boards, mistreatment of women by mainstream medicine (from the past), etc., etc.
I know what Im doing with my health. While it still isnt where it should be and may never be, its helping me cope with whatever symptoms I have to keep me alive and to be able to enjoy Leafs hockey. [emoji846]
Natural/integrative medical modalities have saved my life and I continue to stand by it. While I am currently under no prescribed medications, I understand that they too can be life-saving.
Once again, let me reiterate that no one is advocating people throw out their medicines, but if there is a way to a 50-50 approach or even greater, then all the better for patient outcome. Medications all have side-defects, it practically comes with the territory and there really isnt much one can do about some greater and some minor, and taking them whatever they may be can cause long-term organ and general health damage to cells.
Many doctors privately believe herbs are better than drugs, just as effective in the longer term. Herbs have been around for thousands of years, long before pharmaceuticals were ever invented.
Everything has its risks do not self-medicate not even for natural products, always seek out the advice of a healthcare practitioner which is why a pragmatic, practical, and realistic approach for ones health is truly the best advice.
Lets face it, nutrition and health & wellness have become the lexicon on everyones lips. It runs the gamut from health professionals to exercise & wellness experts.
What some of us may not know is that many of those in the natural medicine field were long endorsing the usage of supplementation in its various forms, healthy eating habits, body/mind de stressing techniques, etcetera, etcetera, way before anyone had ever heard of it en masse. Thats who we have to thank long before the science behind it.
Great post! If there's no money in it big Pharma is not interested. I use 3000mg of C daily and more if I feel the need. I have a weakened immune system and was constantly dealing with infections to the point that many antibiotics no longer work for me. Since I started using vitamin C for internal infections and oregano oil for scratches, cuts and burns I have been antibiotic free for over 5 years.
I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.
We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.
And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.
And therein lies the rub, extraordinary therapies are likely out of the realm of what most people should do or take. The post above is more nuanced than your original take but I still would stress people to speak to a GP they trust before making medical decisions.I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.
We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.
And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.
I dont just go to any ordinary Naturopath. My doctor is an MD/Integrative/ Natural Medicine with a M. of Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.
My family physician is the general family doctor. She specializes in Internal Medicine. She trusts my healthcare practitioner with the nutrition as she can see how it has benefitted me via analysis, etc.
I started off with 5,000 IUs. That did nothing. 10,000. 25,000. Eventually, the 50,000 IUs mark was enough to show sufficient Vit D intake. Of course, in my situation a certain megadose may be required, perhaps not for the longer term, but for most ordinary people a dosage of between 2000 - 5000 IUs is more than adequate.
Most health experts which includes the standardized dosage of Vit D peg a normal dosage at 2,000 IUs for each individual. My naturopath has researched this, wrote about it, spoken about, and has seen the benefits with not the usual dosage but with a slightly higher dosage which he knows it to be far more beneficial for most people.
And therein lies the rub, extraordinary therapies are likely out of the realm of what most people should do or take. The post above is more nuanced than your original take but I still would stress people to speak to a GP they trust before making medical decisions.I take 50,000 IUs of Vitamin D and a good multi-vitamin, multimineral iron-free supplement (and not just any brand). I have health issues and malabsorption problems (inability to absorb nutrients from food).
My naturopath has very high standards toward health care products. He has a top ten list of the best supplement manufacturers whose products actually contain whats listed on the bottle.
....
I hope you've conferred with your primary care physician. That's more than 10 times the safe upper limit for an adult and more than 60 times the recommended amount. 50,000 IUs could very well be contributing to ill health.
We all have the right to make our own decisions about our health (except for children), but when you're going that far out of the scientifically accepted range, that can be dangerous.
And, hopefully, that primary care physician is a fully licensed medical doctor, with the Doctorate of Medicine to confirm that status. The overwhelming majority of naturopath simply have not had the kind of education required to be dispensing advice when it relates to such abnormally high amounts of vitamins, minerals, or any other substance.
I dont just go to any ordinary Naturopath. My doctor is an MD/Integrative/ Natural Medicine with a M. of Sc. in Nutritional Biochemistry.
My family physician is the general family doctor. She specializes in Internal Medicine. She trusts my healthcare practitioner with the nutrition as she can see how it has benefitted me via analysis, etc.
I started off with 5,000 IUs. That did nothing. 10,000. 25,000. Eventually, the 50,000 IUs mark was enough to show sufficient Vit D intake. Of course, in my situation a certain megadose may be required, perhaps not for the longer term, but for most ordinary people a dosage of between 2000 - 5000 IUs is more than adequate.
Most health experts which includes the standardized dosage of Vit D peg a normal dosage at 2,000 IUs for each individual. My naturopath has researched this, wrote about it, spoken about, and has seen the benefits with not the usual dosage but with a slightly higher dosage which he knows it to be far more beneficial for most people.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(16)31200-1/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4gNX38o7oAhUMWN8KHVDDCr0QFjAQegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1AczzlO9i4o7At4vBWZPmc (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(16)31200-1/pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi4gNX38o7oAhUMWN8KHVDDCr0QFjAQegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1AczzlO9i4o7At4vBWZPmc)
Not to you in particular but look at this. Vit D supplements alone are worth $600M+/yr. Sounds like a pretty good racket to me.
ColdFX by the way works very well. I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.
These conversations always go the same way
1. Make a health claim with poorly reviewed or minimal basis in science and yell "get educated" at everyone.
2. Provide out of context links and 3rd party articles
3. Yell "big pharma" repeatedly
4. Cut bait with "well, it works for me! And my cat has never been healthier!"
shampoo, rinse, repeat.
ColdFX by the way works very well. I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.
ColdFX by the way works very well. I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.
No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.
Some COVID-19 patients say they experienced extremely mild symptoms before testing positive for the novel coronavirus, raising concerns that the virus is being spread by some who dont realize theyre infected.
For Dr. Miryam Carecchio, a neurologist in Padua, Italy, discovering she was infected, came as a shock.
I had no fever, no cold, no sore throat, and I had no major issues, she told CTV National News.
The assistant professor at the University of Padua did experience muscle pain in February, she said, so she took some Tylenol, called in sick, and was back to work the following day.
She later experienced changes, including a loss of taste in her mouth, but didnt think the symptoms were extreme enough to be linked to the COVID-19 outbreak.
I didnt feel any of my very minor complaints were consistent with this infection, she said.
The 37 year old says she was tested by chance at the hospital -because she was not ill, had not travelled to a high risk area, and didnt fit the criteria for testing. Last Thursday she got the news she was positive and had to be quarantined until March 20, her birthday.
I was surprised, she said. I was a bit scared, I must say.
ColdFX by the way works very well. I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.
No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.
This is the stupidest argument Ive ever heard. Are you serious?
Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working. I took nothing else. And the cold doesnt just go away. I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.
The FDA is full of sh***.
Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals. They need to be tested differently which they have been.
Do you actually believe you exist?
ColdFX by the way works very well. I tried it once and it did the job it was supposed to do.
No, that is the furthest thing from science I can think of. Because you used it once and your cold went away doesn't mean it works. What if your cold was already going to go away? What if you never had a cold and what you had was an allergic reaction that only lasted for a short time? What if I use it and my cold doesn't go away? There are a million variables to be accounted for. This is why vitamins and the like are never FDA approved because they can't prove anything actually works. As for actual medicine, which has to go through years and years of testing and trials before it can go to market.
This is the stupidest argument Ive ever heard. Are you serious?
Yes, I did try ColdFx, not one actually, but several times and I could feel it working. I took nothing else. And the cold doesnt just go away. I had a full-fledged cold, sore throat symptoms coming on.
The FDA is full of sh***.
Vitamins, supplements, and herbs have long been tested and cannot be lumped together with pharmaceuticals. They need to be tested differently which they have been.
Do you actually believe you exist?
I appreciate that this topic has devolved once again into a forum for the world's most gullible to mount a crusade against the scientific method but that's really no excuse for the rest of you to not know how to fix your quotes.
Or, even better, not quote and engage with that person.
🙏🙏🙏 #restateacasa #SassuoloBrescia @SassuoloUS pic.twitter.com/REBw2nRg8i
— Nicolas Annoscia - Match Analyst (@NicolasAnnoscia) March 10, 2020
Please dont eat the toilet paper! Masks gone. Hand sanitizers gone. Now...toilet paper!!!?
I appreciate that this topic has devolved once again into a forum for the world's most gullible to mount a crusade against the scientific method but that's really no excuse for the rest of you to not know how to fix your quotes.
Or, even better, not quote and engage with that person.
Early morning tapatalk.
[/quote
As Nik said, there is no excuse for this mess of quotes.
I expect more of you.
I don't necessarily believe it's the end of the world but things may get to the point where I don't want to have to go out and expose myself if the illness becomes widespread. The one big concern is that hospitals become overwhelmed and you have nowhere to go if you really need treatment. Here in the US hospitals regularly operate at over 90% capacity and I think I saw recently that they were at 96% because of the heavy flu season. Wouldn't take much of an outbreak to push the system over the edge.
This is unfortunate...Funny ;D
https://www.freshdaily.ca/news/2020/03/cocaine-does-not-protect-against-coronavirus/
I don't necessarily believe it's the end of the world but things may get to the point where I don't want to have to go out and expose myself if the illness becomes widespread. The one big concern is that hospitals become overwhelmed and you have nowhere to go if you really need treatment. Here in the US hospitals regularly operate at over 90% capacity and I think I saw recently that they were at 96% because of the heavy flu season. Wouldn't take much of an outbreak to push the system over the edge.
Or the hospitals become overwhelmed by everyone with a cough running to the hospital and clogging up the system because of the mass hysteria caused by the media.
Exactly, they don't want you running to the hospital or clinics, they want you to stay and home and call them for advice if you believe you are symptomatic.
This Virus will get into a lot of old folks homes and run rampant on the elderly (like in Seattle). Won't help the hospitals with people with all types of conditions, if this Virus contaminates those institutions.
4 migrants where found in the back of a truck in N.E. England that drove there from Italy and all were found to have the virus. First thing they have done is whisk them down to the Princess Diana Hospital in Grimsby, where my wife's father is with pneumonia and other problems. Nice.
*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
Bender, I know you know about the extensive ferry system and no boarders, not blaming anyone but it seems to make sense that people like these 4 poor migrant people should have been taken to a holding centre instead of the main city hospital.Exactly, they don't want you running to the hospital or clinics, they want you to stay and home and call them for advice if you believe you are symptomatic.
This Virus will get into a lot of old folks homes and run rampant on the elderly (like in Seattle). Won't help the hospitals with people with all types of conditions, if this Virus contaminates those institutions.
4 migrants where found in the back of a truck in N.E. England that drove there from Italy and all were found to have the virus. First thing they have done is whisk them down to the Princess Diana Hospital in Grimsby, where my wife's father is with pneumonia and other problems. Nice.
Didn't know you could drive to N.E. from Italy.
Kidding aside, what's the alternative? Not test and allow more and more exposure at large? I do agree they probably shouldn't just rush them off to the nearest hospital if they can help it and do testing elsewhere. They should probably have roadside testing (like Germany) or some such as to avoid taking people to hospitals where they can cross contaminate, but are you seriously blaming people who are ill and getting tested for the problem rather than a really shitty rollout of testing by the government? The U.S. has horribly botched this thing so far, and the virus is going to be there whether you like it or not. If it's not in the hospital it goes to a school, then a mall, then a sporting event, then to work. And then what?
We are in agreement, but that has more to do with how the authorities are handling the outbreak doesn't it?Bender, I know you know about the extensive ferry system and no boarders, not blaming anyone but it seems to make sense that people like these 4 poor migrant people should have been taken to a holding centre instead of the main city hospital.Exactly, they don't want you running to the hospital or clinics, they want you to stay and home and call them for advice if you believe you are symptomatic.
This Virus will get into a lot of old folks homes and run rampant on the elderly (like in Seattle). Won't help the hospitals with people with all types of conditions, if this Virus contaminates those institutions.
4 migrants where found in the back of a truck in N.E. England that drove there from Italy and all were found to have the virus. First thing they have done is whisk them down to the Princess Diana Hospital in Grimsby, where my wife's father is with pneumonia and other problems. Nice.
Didn't know you could drive to N.E. from Italy.
Kidding aside, what's the alternative? Not test and allow more and more exposure at large? I do agree they probably shouldn't just rush them off to the nearest hospital if they can help it and do testing elsewhere. They should probably have roadside testing (like Germany) or some such as to avoid taking people to hospitals where they can cross contaminate, but are you seriously blaming people who are ill and getting tested for the problem rather than a really shitty rollout of testing by the government? The U.S. has horribly botched this thing so far, and the virus is going to be there whether you like it or not. If it's not in the hospital it goes to a school, then a mall, then a sporting event, then to work. And then what?
*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
Yeah, I don't know. Italy has an older population and from the stats I've seen, the deaths there so far are very heavily skewed to those greater than 70 (and especially 80). But there are reports coming out now that younger people, in their 40s, are starting to show up in the hospitals with ARDS. So maybe the outbreak there has been going on for longer and the oldest people were getting taken out first and it will now move into younger age groups. If the outbreak started going later in S Korea we might soon see a rapid increase in their death rate. Only time will tell.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
I know. All I ask is that people who are symptomatic, for the love of God, call their GP, get tested and stay home if sick. That's all I ask.Yeah, I don't know. Italy has an older population and from the stats I've seen, the deaths there so far are very heavily skewed to those greater than 70 (and especially 80). But there are reports coming out now that younger people, in their 40s, are starting to show up in the hospitals with ARDS. So maybe the outbreak there has been going on for longer and the oldest people were getting taken out first and it will now move into younger age groups. If the outbreak started going later in S Korea we might soon see a rapid increase in their death rate. Only time will tell.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
It's really weird living through this and watching it spread out through the world. Kind of like seeing a storm on the horizon heading your way, you don't know how bad it's going to be and there's not much you can do about it.
Older age, showing signs of sepsis on admission, underlying diseases like high blood pressure and diabetes, and the prolonged use of non-invasive ventilation were important factors in the deaths of these patients, said study author Dr Zhibo Liu.
Poorer outcomes in older people may be due, in part, to the age-related weakening of the immune system and increased inflammation that could promote viral replication and more prolonged responses to inflammation, causing lasting damage to the heart, brain, and other organs.
One expert added increased age is a common risk factor for nearly all infections.
Medical records, treatment data and laboratory results were compared between the survivors of the infection and the deceased.
Using mathematical models, the scientists examined risk factors associated with dying of the infection.
Overall, just under half (48%) of the patients had an underlying condition.
Blood pressure was the most common, making up 30% of the co-morbidities, followed by diabetes at 19%.
The survivors were on average 52 years old, compared to 69 among the deceased.
The death toll skews old even more strongly. Overall, China CDC found, 2.3% of confirmed cases died. But the fatality rate was 14.8% in people 80 or older, likely reflecting the presence of other diseases, a weaker immune system, or simply worse overall health. By contrast, the fatality rate was 1.3% in 50-somethings, 0.4% in 40-somethings, and 0.2% in people 10 to 39.
Supposedly the virus is doing much better in cold climates than warm ones. I don't know why but my wife has been immersed in this stuff and she has heard this more than once.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
Supposedly the virus is doing much better in cold climates than warm ones. I don't know why but my wife has been immersed in this stuff and she has heard this more than once.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
Neither is most of Italy!
Dr. Nancy Messionnier of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, warned against assuming the number of cases will slow as the weather warms. I think its premature to assume that, she said during a call with reporters on Feb. 12. We havent been through even a single year with this pathogen.
Other health experts that TIME spoke to agree that its too early to say if warmer weather will impact the viruss spread. McGraw, of Penn State University, says there will likely be many factors that determine when and how the outbreak ends. Rate of virus spread, effectiveness of infection control practices, weather and human immunity will likely all play a role in determining its future, she says.
?fbclid=IwAR054OhXXGLW7ecx4_1kPmhh2uNiin5mAz4ssiR43rX4dM2B32PICjX86M0Here's the coronavirus data, overlayed with the dates offset by the amounts shown. One of these countries is not like the rest. Everyone else will be Italy in 9-14 days time. pic.twitter.com/VESY54X1gP
— Mark Handley (@MarkJHandley) March 9, 2020
Very disappointed to see the Prime Minuster coming out and saying things like we should just take it on the chin and let it burn through quickly when that would very clearly rapidly overwhelm our already stretched health service but that seems to be where were at with our leaders at the minute unfortunately.It's a great idea (sarcasm) as long as you don't wind up with pneumonia requiring intense medical care when the hospital system is overwhelmed. And don't even think about having another kind of health emergency such as a heart attack, stroke, etc.
Again not advocating anything, I should not have posted what my wife had read. However Rome and Tehran have very similar climates, low 40 F at night into the low 50's during the day. Wuhan is a bit warmer at this point with a balmy 63F today.Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
Neither is most of Italy!
Looks like the U.K is going into a complete lockdown like Italy.Again not advocating anything, I should not have posted what my wife had read. However Rome and Tehran have very similar climates, low 40 F at night into the low 50's during the day. Wuhan is a bit warmer at this point with a balmy 63F today.Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
Neither is most of Italy!
It is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out in Tropical areas.
Looks like the U.K is going into a complete lockdown like Italy.
Very disappointed to see the Prime Minuster coming out and saying things like we should just take it on the chin and let it burn through quickly when that would very clearly rapidly overwhelm our already stretched health service but that seems to be where were at with our leaders at the minute unfortunately.It's a great idea (sarcasm) as long as you don't wind up with pneumonia requiring intense medical care when the hospital system is overwhelmed. And don't even think about having another kind of health emergency such as a heart attack, stroke, etc.
Unfortunately that seems to be the direction the US is headed. Lackadaisical response, minimal testing, denial. Kind of what I expected, though I hoped I would be wrong.
Some of the western countries share one problem, which is very few hospital beds per capita. Sweden only have 2,22/capita, Canada and The UK have about 2,5/capita, compared to for example Japan that have over 13/capita. Several experts here in Sweden says that if we get a lot of serious cases, we wont be able to handle it well.I read recently that the US system is currently at 96% full. Part of that is the length/severe flu (or maybe flu+coronavirus) season but still normally nearly full. Empty beds don't make any money so there is little spare capacity built into the system.
NBA season cancelled.
NBA season cancelled.
Suspended, not cancelled.
NBA season cancelled.
So the whole #Raptors team is among six NBA squads that are apparently now self-quarantined ... Raptors did a Big Brothers bowling event tonight. https://t.co/abPqI4VPBP
— Stephen Wickens (@StephenWickens1) March 12, 2020
The govt approach to coronavirus is one of the most interesting social experiments of recent times.
— Hugo Gye (@HugoGye) March 12, 2020
If it works: UK avoids shutting down the country, but suffers virus outbreak no worse than elsewhere. Masterstroke.
If not: UK suffers 100s or 1000s of avoidable deaths.
Now all public schools in Ontario will be closed for two weeks following March Break;It's the right call.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/all-publicly-funded-schools-in-ontario-will-be-closed-for-two-weeks-after-march-break-due-to-covid-19-1.4850653
Hey, Trump is still peddling absolute lies and obstructing testing. Good stuff. Oh and the Senate decided they wouldn't vote on a stimulus bill for the Coronavirus and instead took off until Tuesday because Mitch McConnell is a worthless piece of scum.The complete inability of Republicans to deal with this extraordinarily urgent problem certainly highlights how entirely unequipped and unmotivated they are to deal with the long-term urgent problem of climate change.
Hey, Trump is still peddling absolute lies and obstructing testing. Good stuff. Oh and the Senate decided they wouldn't vote on a stimulus bill for the Coronavirus and instead took off until Tuesday because Mitch McConnell is a worthless piece of scum.
Karlie Kloss's father asked a Facebook group of ER docs for help combatting the coronavirus. He said he had a "direct channel to person now in charge at White House." Jared had apparently asked him for help. Karlie Kloss is married to Kushner's brother.https://t.co/4zZu6Jw5nv
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) March 13, 2020
Hey, Trump is still peddling absolute lies and obstructing testing. Good stuff. Oh and the Senate decided they wouldn't vote on a stimulus bill for the Coronavirus and instead took off until Tuesday because Mitch McConnell is a worthless piece of scum.
Don't worry, Jared's on it now:Karlie Kloss's father asked a Facebook group of ER docs for help combatting the coronavirus. He said he had a "direct channel to person now in charge at White House." Jared had apparently asked him for help. Karlie Kloss is married to Kushner's brother.https://t.co/4zZu6Jw5nv
— Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) March 13, 2020
A Taiwanese scientist has claimed Chinese microbiologists probably created coronavirus in Wuhan, China.
Based on the virus unusual structure it is most likely man made and there is a theory coronavirus was somehow leaked or released from the Institute of Virology in Wuhan China, said Professor Fang Chi-tai from the National Taiwan University (NTU).
Professor Fang said Chinas track record with safety standards and laboratory management has been questioned in the past.
The Professor claims it was very possible that the Wuhan Chinese scientists created the deadly virus by simply adding four amino acids to an existing bat virus, which therefore makes it much easier to transmit to people.
Professor Fang added, The mutations found in the novel coronavirus are unusual in an academic sense.
It is indeed possible that it is a man-made product.
From an academic point of view, it is indeed possible that the amino acids were added to COVID-19 in the lab by humans.
A scientist told how a sick bat attacked the researchers and bled on them and urinated on another, they were then forced to quarantine themselves for 14 days.
Biologists Botao Xiao and Lei Xiao published a pre-print entitled The possible origins of 2019-nCoV coronavirus.
The report describes how the killer coronavirus probably originated from a laboratory in Wuhan.
We noted two laboratories conducting research on bat coronavirus in Wuhan, one of which was only 280 metres from the seafood market.
Not something we want to read about but the possibility exists of this scenario to have transpired.Certainly possible that it was a lab leak. How likely, no way of knowing. And the question at this time is, does it really matter? Unless someone in a lab somewhere has a cure or vaccine they're waiting to sell to the world, we have to deal with it the same way whether it's natural or not.
I'm not sure "mild, flu-like symptoms" makes an ideal bio-weapon.
I went to do some grocery shopping here in Stockholm, and people are definately hoarding some items, rice is pretty much gone even in the really big supermarkets.It looks like other coronaviruses, but it is new so it might be somewhat different from what's out there currently. Until an expert says otherwise (which they have not) there is no reason to believe it isn't natural.
As for the virus I think the strategy in Sweden is to balance on the edge of what the healthcare can handle, the approach here doesn't seem to be as aggresive as many other countries in Europe. The authorities responsible here is facing a lot of crap here and abroad, especially from China, but our relationship is bad. China has asked EU to condemn how Sweden is handling it.
It is thought that the intension in Sweden is to protect risk groups and let others get it to build up more immunity. The scientist in me says that it's the right approach, the human in me says it's the wrong approach.
I just read that it is a part of the strategy that people get it, but they try to control it so it goes slowely, it is believed that another wave will hit in the autumn, and the strategy then is to have as much immunity in the population as possible.
The authorities say that if we lock everything down now and another wave of the virus hit us in the autumn without immunity we will have the exact same problem as now.
As for the virus being man made I've got a friend who knows someone here who is analyzing the virus, and according to him the string of the DNA doesn't look natural. Now, I don't know if that means probably man made or something else.
Ya, it is possible, but what has this taught rouge states like North Korea or the Terrorist nations??? Or Russia?Every epidemiologist in the world who cared about this has been saying this for years. Bioterrorism isn't new - the whole world knows how fragile we are. The issue is the world is so interconnected that to some extent biological warfare is almost not worth it compared to other types of warfare.
Would it not be possible to take this virus or one like it a step further and make it specific for certain races or cultures with diverse biomes or genetic tendencies?
Could create a huge amount of vacated real estate to propagate a nation like China's population. Don't need a war to rule the world perhaps. Just kill your enemies quietly and in huge numbers.
Scary to even think of it.
"What if someone attacks us with pointed sticks". Monty again.I'm not sure "mild, flu-like symptoms" makes an ideal bio-weapon.
My acquaintance at CSIS says that there is satellite imagery that shows they also have these long wooden boats that have dragon heads at the bow. Also their army is armed with these rifles that can fire this metal pellet, a beebee if you will, 300 meters per second. That'll put your eye out.
When you see Brian Schatz retweeting Ted Cruz quote-tweeting AOC in agreement you know these are extraordinary times: pic.twitter.com/rZIfH23p04
— Dr. Esther AT LEAST WEAR A MASK Choo (@choo_ek) March 14, 2020
I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?
I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.
Supposedly the virus is doing much better in cold climates than warm ones. I don't know why but my wife has been immersed in this stuff and she has heard this more than once.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
Agreed, I will stop posting on this subject, made it across the border yesterday and was told for us to self isolate for 2 weeks. I wish you all the best everyone. Keep washing your hands.
I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?
I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.
I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?
I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.
Agreed. This isn't just an issue for this forum, but this is a pretty grave situation that is morphing at a very quick pace. The actual facts are scary enough without all the other rubbish that seems to be fuelled by social media in particular.
It just goes to show whatever way you look at it, its all just a bit mad. We think as a society were fairly well developed and pretty safe then every now and then along comes something like a crazy virus to put us back in our box.
I know this will probably fall on deaf ears but is there anyway people could maybe make a concerted effort to not post speculation or whatever sensationalist claims they find out there? Even if some of this stuff is true, you should be asking if repeating it actually helps anyone. If this is a genetically engineered bioweapon that changes...what, practically?
I'm sure there will be plenty of time for conspiracy theories and wild accusations but right now with so many people worried and confined we need to remember that while we're urging people to self-isolate in order for the good of the community and our physical health, we also have a responsibility to look after each other's mental well-being. Paranoia, panic, the instinct to find scapegoats...none of these things are productive now and they especially won't be if things get worse.
It doesnt hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon.
Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:
1 - Employers still demanding sick notes
*snip
It doesnt hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon.
It doesn't help, and that's more important.
If it doesn't help, don't spread it.
It doesnt hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon.
It doesn't help, and that's more important.
If it doesn't help, don't spread it.
I would love a like function purely for this post.
Anywho in other news, the U.K. government looks a bit silly for a change
https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-strategy-deaths
Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:
1 - Employers still demanding sick notes
*snip
Just a little context here...I have spent most of the day discussing with local business owners and lawyers on exactly how people can claim for EI while self-isolating, and the feds have yet to update even their own MP's on this.
The suggestion from Ford (province) was that the sick note was not necessary for you to stay home and keep your job. Cool, we employers don't have any problem with this.
The problem is the feds still require some documentation be kept by people in order to claim sick leave to get EI. They've waived the 1 week waiting period, but that's it. Hence, people are still trying to get sick notes.
At this point, the consensus from the lawyers suggests that we simply generate the ROE (record of employment) and have employees claim "sick leave" even without a doctor's note.
Just giving you a little background on that problem, LK. You've got your hands full, for sure, so stay safe!
Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:
1 - Employers still demanding sick notes
*snip
Just a little context here...I have spent most of the day discussing with local business owners and lawyers on exactly how people can claim for EI while self-isolating, and the feds have yet to update even their own MP's on this.
The suggestion from Ford (province) was that the sick note was not necessary for you to stay home and keep your job. Cool, we employers don't have any problem with this.
The problem is the feds still require some documentation be kept by people in order to claim sick leave to get EI. They've waived the 1 week waiting period, but that's it. Hence, people are still trying to get sick notes.
At this point, the consensus from the lawyers suggests that we simply generate the ROE (record of employment) and have employees claim "sick leave" even without a doctor's note.
Just giving you a little background on that problem, LK. You've got your hands full, for sure, so stay safe!
No its a fair account and I do understand it in principle. It was more the nature of the individuals who were sent in. I have been pretty hard line with the tone on my stock note I have handed out and had a heated discussion with one employer who was more concerned about people taking advantage of him. That was really where my gripe came from. If there is any fault in this I think it really does lie in the Ford Government not having legislation ready to go to clarify this stuff as soon as they declared the degree of restrictions. This wasn't a plan that came out of nowhere. They dragged their feet to implement social isolation and quarantines so they had plenty of time to navigate things for a smoother transition.
It's not clear yet because it's a "novel" coronavirus. We're learning on the fly right now.Supposedly the virus is doing much better in cold climates than warm ones. I don't know why but my wife has been immersed in this stuff and she has heard this more than once.This is also highly dependant on public policy and social custom and a number of variables. How else do you explain Italy's high rate and Korea's low one? I don't think you can use one country in isolation in analysing this.*Edit: Also just to clarify, I agree people shouldn't "run" to hospitals and should call and see if they can get tested offsite, but I don't think a 3% kill rate is "mass hysteria caused by the media." This is entirely on individuals who should do their damn due diligence and call their GP and ask what they should do and if it makes sense to get tested, and hopefully the test is offsite from a hospital.
If that turns out to be the true mortality rate, then, no, it's not hysteria at all - not with how easy it can spread. The problem is we may not know the true mortality rate for some time - if ever - as a significant number of people who may have contracted the virus will/were never be tested. For a lot of the population, COVID-19 can present similar to a normal cold. There could be thousands of unreported cases out there, which would significantly drive down the mortality rate.
There's lots we really don't know. There were reports coming out of Wuhan back in February that huge numbers of people had died. I saw videos with bodies laying in the streets. There were videos from hospitals with patients lined up through the corridors barely able to breath, with dead bodies on the floor, some in body bags. Reports that crematoriums were unable to keep up. Many think the true death toll in Wuhan was at least 10x what was reported, maybe even more than that. China shut down all those reports by "disappearing" people who were sending out that info. Of course, the true number of minor or asymptomatic cases might be much higher than we think.
I believe South Korea will give us the best info about the overall severity of the virus. They've done vast amounts of testing and presumably identified many more cases, covering a broad range of severity, compared to other countries. Right now their death rate looks very low but it will probably creep up since the disease course is often several weeks. They've identified 7500 case but only about 250 are listed as "recovered" versus 58 deaths. We'll see where that goes.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/asiatimes.com/2020/03/why-are-koreas-covid-19-death-rates-so-low/
Wuhan & Tehran aren't cold though. I don't know how we have enough information to extrapolate that yet.
[EDIT: Ok, reading further, a bunch of other people said the same thing .... sorry ...]
I have an epidemiologist friend who is posting lots on Facebook. Most coronaviruses have this property of doing better in cold, dry air than in warm, humid air. However, I don't think it is quite clear yet how closely this one follows that trend.
I think that honestly no one knows what the best strategy is. Now The UK and Sweden differs from the rest of the EU. The intention is try to have a controlled spread of the virus, which is why the two countries do things later than the rest, the strategy is to try to protect the risk groups while trying to make sure that the healthcare get more cases early on in the spread to make sure you don't get a lot at a very short time, while trying to build up immunity. There is a risk with not building up immunity now.I think it takes a massive amount of hubris to believe you can selectively control an epidemic.
Let's say that we lock everything down now, fewer might get the virus, but fewer will develop immunity, and if a second wave of the virus hits in the autumn, then you may have to start all over with locking everything down and isolating a lot of people again, and no one knows how long it will take to develop the vaccine. No matter what I hope that every country get out of this with as few deaths as possible. There are too many unknown factors in this situation, so it's difficult to know what's right and what's wrong. Just to put this in some context, the regular flu kill about 300.000 people per year worldwide.
I sincerely hope this thing doesn't become an annual virus. RE: Quick herd immunity, I'd rather wait it out and hope for a vaccine or at least a decent anti-viral treatment to stop from getting pneumonia.It doesnt hurt to speak about the possibility of it as being a potential bio weapon.
It doesn't help, and that's more important.
If it doesn't help, don't spread it.
I would love a like function purely for this post.
Anywho in other news, the U.K. government looks a bit silly for a change
https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/alexwickham/coronavirus-uk-strategy-deaths
The UK approach to generate herd immunity really would work. You just have to accepting of mass casualties in the process. If this was a condition that we could guarantee that COVID-19 will be an annual disease there is maybe some argument for having these kinds of ethical heavy discussions but their approach has been pitiful to say the least.
I think that honestly no one knows what the best strategy is. Now The UK and Sweden differs from the rest of the EU. The intention is try to have a controlled spread of the virus, which is why the two countries do things later than the rest, the strategy is to try to protect the risk groups while trying to make sure that the healthcare get more cases early on in the spread to make sure you don't get a lot at a very short time, while trying to build up immunity. There is a risk with not building up immunity now.I think it takes a massive amount of hubris to believe you can selectively control an epidemic.
Let's say that we lock everything down now, fewer might get the virus, but fewer will develop immunity, and if a second wave of the virus hits in the autumn, then you may have to start all over with locking everything down and isolating a lot of people again, and no one knows how long it will take to develop the vaccine. No matter what I hope that every country get out of this with as few deaths as possible. There are too many unknown factors in this situation, so it's difficult to know what's right and what's wrong. Just to put this in some context, the regular flu kill about 300.000 people per year worldwide.
Working today and here is my list of gripes so far:
1 - Employers still demanding sick notes
*snip
Just a little context here...I have spent most of the day discussing with local business owners and lawyers on exactly how people can claim for EI while self-isolating, and the feds have yet to update even their own MP's on this.
The suggestion from Ford (province) was that the sick note was not necessary for you to stay home and keep your job. Cool, we employers don't have any problem with this.
The problem is the feds still require some documentation be kept by people in order to claim sick leave to get EI. They've waived the 1 week waiting period, but that's it. Hence, people are still trying to get sick notes.
At this point, the consensus from the lawyers suggests that we simply generate the ROE (record of employment) and have employees claim "sick leave" even without a doctor's note.
Just giving you a little background on that problem, LK. You've got your hands full, for sure, so stay safe!
No its a fair account and I do understand it in principle. It was more the nature of the individuals who were sent in. I have been pretty hard line with the tone on my stock note I have handed out and had a heated discussion with one employer who was more concerned about people taking advantage of him. That was really where my gripe came from. If there is any fault in this I think it really does lie in the Ford Government not having legislation ready to go to clarify this stuff as soon as they declared the degree of restrictions. This wasn't a plan that came out of nowhere. They dragged their feet to implement social isolation and quarantines so they had plenty of time to navigate things for a smoother transition.
Love you brother, and really you all on the front lines of this deserve to be recognized...but EI is a federal thing, and although I believe that Trudeau is exhibiting a very calm response to this, they haven't clarified some of this stuff for employers, and you're therefore not getting the relief from this sort of crap that you most certainly need.
I'm no Ford guy, but given these unprecedented circumstances, political affiliations have no place.
The federal government needs to assure everyone that they can stay home under certain circumstances, and not worry about getting the government assistance that we all pay into. The province can help, but they don't administrate EI.
Many employers are really just trying to stay in business over the next little while, we have a responsibility to ensure that all employees will have a job to come back to. Everyone please understand our stresses as well. We really do care about the people we work with everyday...at least most of do.
I don't think it's hubris, and it's a different strategy of tackling the curve, not to gain full immunity, I think it's just difficult decisions being made in difficult times. Let's say that you lock down the entire country and very few gets the virus, and you have no immunity, and it hits again in the autumn or winter when it will be worse for countries like Sweden and Canada due to the cold, then you may be worse off, because you will likely not have a vaccine, and then you will have to go over the exact same thing again. The only advantage is that you may have more time to prepare the healthcare for another round. But looking at stats from Italy and China, around 15-40% who get icu treatment still die, but yeah locking more things down might give us more time to understand the virus. Several experts have also gone out and said that the actions that several countries are taking are political and not scientific. I don't know what's the best thing to do now, I just hope that all of the planet do as well as possible.I think that honestly no one knows what the best strategy is. Now The UK and Sweden differs from the rest of the EU. The intention is try to have a controlled spread of the virus, which is why the two countries do things later than the rest, the strategy is to try to protect the risk groups while trying to make sure that the healthcare get more cases early on in the spread to make sure you don't get a lot at a very short time, while trying to build up immunity. There is a risk with not building up immunity now.I think it takes a massive amount of hubris to believe you can selectively control an epidemic.
Let's say that we lock everything down now, fewer might get the virus, but fewer will develop immunity, and if a second wave of the virus hits in the autumn, then you may have to start all over with locking everything down and isolating a lot of people again, and no one knows how long it will take to develop the vaccine. No matter what I hope that every country get out of this with as few deaths as possible. There are too many unknown factors in this situation, so it's difficult to know what's right and what's wrong. Just to put this in some context, the regular flu kill about 300.000 people per year worldwide.
Are they recommending everyone to socially distance themselves?in Sweden? If so, depends really, on buses and trains, they've recommended to keep a distance. They've recommended to not have large gatherings, parties or something similar. When i'm out I don't see any big groups, most people seem to keep away a bit, so based on what I see people in general seem to understand that they should keep away from eachother. I predict that all schools will be shut down this week, but i'm not sure. The one leading the "expert" authority here on the matter has been under a lot of fire not only in Sweden but abroad as well for not taking more aggressive actions, but he has also been praised by other countries for being more scientific and not giving into policy, which makes me a bit confused. One thing that makes it complicated here is that the authorities here in Sweden are independent, so the courts etc can not be controlled by the government. The government with the current laws can not decide to shut down all school for example.
Are they recommending everyone to socially distance themselves?in Sweden? If so, depends really, on buses and trains, they've recommended to keep a distance. They've recommended to not have large gatherings, parties or something similar. When i'm out I don't see any big groups, most people seem to keep away a bit, so based on what I see people in general seem to understand that they should keep away from eachother. I predict that all schools will be shut down this week, but i'm not sure. The one leading the "expert" authority here on the matter has been under a lot of fire not only in Sweden but abroad as well for not taking more aggressive actions, but he has also been praised by other countries for being more scientific and not giving into policy, which makes me a bit confused. One thing that makes it complicated here is that the authorities here in Sweden are independent, so the courts etc can not be controlled by the government. The government with the current laws can not decide to shut down all school for example.
Rumour has it that they will vote on a law on thursday and shut down all schools starting from monday. There are things I can be critical of here, one thing is only talking about old people. My sister's daughter has a very serious condition and she is still in school, which makes me worried and my sister furious. They talk about protecting all risk groups, but haven't focused on the younger with underlying conditions, which I don't support. Personally I try to keep a distance to people, I feel fine but you never know and both of my parents are 70+ so I might have to do some grocery shopping, we talk on the phone every day just to be sure.Are they recommending everyone to socially distance themselves?in Sweden? If so, depends really, on buses and trains, they've recommended to keep a distance. They've recommended to not have large gatherings, parties or something similar. When i'm out I don't see any big groups, most people seem to keep away a bit, so based on what I see people in general seem to understand that they should keep away from eachother. I predict that all schools will be shut down this week, but i'm not sure. The one leading the "expert" authority here on the matter has been under a lot of fire not only in Sweden but abroad as well for not taking more aggressive actions, but he has also been praised by other countries for being more scientific and not giving into policy, which makes me a bit confused. One thing that makes it complicated here is that the authorities here in Sweden are independent, so the courts etc can not be controlled by the government. The government with the current laws can not decide to shut down all school for example.
I find that so bizarre. Anyone working in epidemiology I've listened to thus far has said speed is of utmost importance and the perfect is the enemy of the good. We'll see what happens but this ain't no picnic for young people, and many young people like myself also have underlying conditions, which I think is missing from that equation.
Did Skynet/Agent Smith/Ultron/Thanos have a point?Here's an unexpected side effect of the pandemic - the water's flowing through the canals of Venice is clear for the first time in forever. The fish are visible, the swans returned. pic.twitter.com/2egMGhJs7f
— Kaveri 🇮🇳 (@ikaveri) March 16, 2020
Did Skynet/Agent Smith/Ultron/Thanos have a point?Here's an unexpected side effect of the pandemic - the water's flowing through the canals of Venice is clear for the first time in forever. The fish are visible, the swans returned. pic.twitter.com/2egMGhJs7f
— Kaveri 🇮🇳 (@ikaveri) March 16, 2020
I moved to BC two years ago, impossible to get a Doctor here. What BS on what we pay for healthcare, no frikken doctors.
I moved to BC two years ago, impossible to get a Doctor here. What BS on what we pay for healthcare, no frikken doctors.
Canada has as many doctors as the US per capita.
I moved to BC two years ago, impossible to get a Doctor here. What BS on what we pay for healthcare, no frikken doctors.
Canada has as many doctors as the US per capita.
We really should aim higher than the US as a comparable.
I moved to BC two years ago, impossible to get a Doctor here. What BS on what we pay for healthcare, no frikken doctors.
Canada has as many doctors as the US per capita.
We really should aim higher than the US as a comparable.
"Just because we're athletes - that shouldn't put us above everyday, hard-working people."@KendrickPerkins tells @ramonashelburne & @LAIreland he agrees with @NYCMayor's criticism of #coronavirus testing access https://t.co/lFLD88TuIk pic.twitter.com/eBdCczSDfZ
— ESPN Los Angeles (@ESPNLosAngeles) March 18, 2020
I moved to BC two years ago, impossible to get a Doctor here. What BS on what we pay for healthcare, no frikken doctors.
Canada has as many doctors as the US per capita.
We really should aim higher than the US as a comparable.
I've spent equal time in both countries. I'll take my chances in the US.
I’ve given this a lot of thought, and over the past few days my perspective has changed. I was voted to represent and protect athletes. As an IOCAC member, 6x Olympian and Medical doctor in training on the front lines in ER up until this week,these are my thoughts on @Olympics : pic.twitter.com/vrvfsQZ1GO
— Hayley Wickenheiser (@wick_22) March 17, 2020
Massive list of #COVID19 relief measures unveiled by PMO takes two screen captures. One for workers, one for business. Here you go, folks. #cdnpoli pic.twitter.com/rUyEr1rrSP
— Susan Delacourt (@SusanDelacourt) March 18, 2020
Interesting question, when they close all shopping to grocery stores and pharmacy's how will people get their booze, or will Liquor stores be exempt? People will want to keep their tipple.
Interesting question, when they close all shopping to grocery stores and pharmacy's how will people get their booze, or will Liquor stores be exempt? People will want to keep their tipple.
Why should anyone care anymore that you want a scotch and soda than someone else wants to buy a new pair of sneakers?
Taking this seriously means making sacrifices on all of our parts.
I mean there is certainly an issue with people who are confirmed alcoholics with alcohol withdrawal. If you can't get your shoe fetish fix it might make you a little annoyed but we could still end up with people flooding ERs with the DTs and seizures. So it is a bit of a legitimate dilemma in terms of how we mitigate that risk.
Interesting question, when they close all shopping to grocery stores and pharmacy's how will people get their booze, or will Liquor stores be exempt? People will want to keep their tipple.
Why should anyone care anymore that you want a scotch and soda than someone else wants to buy a new pair of sneakers?
Taking this seriously means making sacrifices on all of our parts.
I mean there is certainly an issue with people who are confirmed alcoholics with alcohol withdrawal. If you can't get your shoe fetish fix it might make you a little annoyed but we could still end up with people flooding ERs with the DTs and seizures. So it is a bit of a legitimate dilemma in terms of how we mitigate that risk.
Rumour has it that they will vote on a law on thursday and shut down all schools starting from monday. There are things I can be critical of here, one thing is only talking about old people. My sister's daughter has a very serious condition and she is still in school, which makes me worried and my sister furious. They talk about protecting all risk groups, but haven't focused on the younger with underlying conditions, which I don't support. Personally I try to keep a distance to people, I feel fine but you never know and both of my parents are 70+ so I might have to do some grocery shopping, we talk on the phone every day just to be sure.Are they recommending everyone to socially distance themselves?in Sweden? If so, depends really, on buses and trains, they've recommended to keep a distance. They've recommended to not have large gatherings, parties or something similar. When i'm out I don't see any big groups, most people seem to keep away a bit, so based on what I see people in general seem to understand that they should keep away from eachother. I predict that all schools will be shut down this week, but i'm not sure. The one leading the "expert" authority here on the matter has been under a lot of fire not only in Sweden but abroad as well for not taking more aggressive actions, but he has also been praised by other countries for being more scientific and not giving into policy, which makes me a bit confused. One thing that makes it complicated here is that the authorities here in Sweden are independent, so the courts etc can not be controlled by the government. The government with the current laws can not decide to shut down all school for example.
I find that so bizarre. Anyone working in epidemiology I've listened to thus far has said speed is of utmost importance and the perfect is the enemy of the good. We'll see what happens but this ain't no picnic for young people, and many young people like myself also have underlying conditions, which I think is missing from that equation.
I'm no expert in any way on the subject but I wonder if this will jumpstart talk on a Universal Basic Income in Canada? It seems absolutely nuts the sheer number of Canadians who's financial Life is currently at risk. And I'm not talking about just low wage earners.
I'm no expert in any way on the subject but I wonder if this will jumpstart talk on a Universal Basic Income in Canada? It seems absolutely nuts the sheer number of Canadians who's financial Life is currently at risk. And I'm not talking about just low wage earners.
I don't know about a UBI the way some people talk about it but I'd hope a much stronger social safety net for sure.
I think a UBI is good in a crisis because it eliminates implementation delays for means testing but long term I think a better approach is in having better EI, better housing policy, better pension and disability benefits and so on.
Regardless, I think it's very telling that in the midst of a crisis we see that people understand a basic economic reality that a lot of people try to ignore. Put money in the hands of people who need it and they spend it, almost always in their local community. Put money in the hands of people who don't need it and they, at the very least, are less likely to spend the money in local communities.
For me the most fascinating part of a UBI is the hope that it could easily be administered without a ton of red tape or cost. You are a Canadian, here is your money.
And it should eliminate a lot of other Givt programs and Administration costs.
For me the most fascinating part of a UBI is the hope that it could easily be administered without a ton of red tape or cost. You are a Canadian, here is your money.
I agree, that's an appealing aspect of it. But the cost of it is so high(1000 a month for 25 million people, say, is 300 billion dollars a year) that I don't know if it's feasible.And it should eliminate a lot of other Givt programs and Administration costs.
But that's the rub. Which programs? Is the goal to stimulate the economy or is the goal to make sure that people who need help get actual help that doesn't leave them desperately poor. Because 1000 dollars a month is less than, say, a lot of disabled people get currently. So do you want to make those people poorer? Or eliminate any options they have for low cost housing?
But "how do we ensure that no one lives in abject poverty" isn't an easy question so the answer isn't going to be simple. Do you adjust for cost of living? Because what's enough to get by in Timmins is drastically different than it is in Toronto.
Again, it's a good idea. It's just not a one size fits all sort of thing that can replace a broader social framework.
I think some people will have to still make Life choices. Should you be unable or unwilling to work to go with your UBI maybe you just can't live in Toronto or Vancouver or wherever. There will never be a program that just lets everyone live the Life they want, I'm just suggesting a way that helps more and doesn't get bogged down with red tape and Administration costs.
I think some people will have to still make Life choices. Should you be unable or unwilling to work to go with your UBI maybe you just can't live in Toronto or Vancouver or wherever.
That right there is the biggest issue with "free money".
People currently don't make the right life choices. In many cases, that's why they continue to live in poverty. In Sudbury, a relatively cheap place to live in comparison to Toronto or Vancouver, many children go without food every morning. Many kids go without the basic necessities to stay clean. But, every one of their parents have an iPhone 11 and every family has an Xbox or Playstation with the best and greatest games.
The bottom line is, people don't make the right decisions. This isn't only true of the lower income families. Many people making well into the multi hundred thousand a year family incomes, live pay cheque to pay cheque. They purchase the house that they can't afford. The car they can't afford. Etc;
People who "CHOOSE" not to work should not receive free money
That money feeds into the economy with a high-dollar velocity even if you think they're luxuries that these people don't deserve.
He didn't say a smartphone was a luxury. He said a top of the line, $1100 smartphone was.
He particularly referenced "best and greatest games" in terms of video game systems. Companies in Canada also sell used titles from past years and older systems. Options for all budgets.
That right there is the biggest issue with "free money".
People currently don't make the right life choices. In many cases, that's why they continue to live in poverty. In Sudbury, a relatively cheap place to live in comparison to Toronto or Vancouver, many children go without food every morning. Many kids go without the basic necessities to stay clean. But, every one of their parents have an iPhone 11 and every family has an Xbox or Playstation with the best and greatest games.
The bottom line is, people don't make the right decisions. This isn't only true of the lower income families. Many people making well into the multi hundred thousand a year family incomes, live pay cheque to pay cheque. They purchase the house that they can't afford. The car they can't afford. Etc;
People who "CHOOSE" not to work should not receive free money
Leaving aside that I don't think that much of this is true, it ignores one of the basic elements behind the thinking of a UBI. Whether or not these people spend money in ways you approve of(and many, many people have made a compelling case that a smartphone is actually one of the better ways a low-income person can spend their money) this is still money that is being spent in the community. Canadian businesses sell smartphones and video games. That money feeds into the economy with a high-dollar velocity even if you think they're luxuries that these people don't deserve.
I'm not quite sure what you feel isn't true. With a spouse that is in administration in the local public school board, I can give you first hand accounts of families spending their cheques on the wrong things(Video games, technology, cell phones, booze, etc; ). It's not a one off. You'd be alarmed at the high amounts of people choosing themselves over their children. It's disheartening and disturbing.
And while I think that technology can be a helpful tool(in reference to your smart phone comment), it is not a helpful tool if you're not feeding your children. It is a waste of money. If that phone is a necessity of survival, perhaps getting a $150 a month data package + the best cell phone on the market isn't the right choice. Perhaps getting a small data package with a $100 used smart phone is the better choice. Perhaps sticking with your Xbox 360 or your playstation 3 is the better choice than upgrading the second the new model comes out. People live in a gimme gimme world, and I fear that throwing an extra $1000 at them just feeds their gimme needs as opposed to feeding their real needs. Their dependents.
I'm not quite sure what you feel isn't true. With a spouse that is in administration in the local public school board, I can give you first hand accounts of families spending their cheques on the wrong things(Video games, technology, cell phones, booze, etc; ). It's not a one off. You'd be alarmed at the high amounts of people choosing themselves over their children. It's disheartening and disturbing.
I am sure your spouse has anecdotal evidence of that. I would assume that's largely because they would only be privy to information like that in the cases you're talking about but wouldn't be informed of the situations where lower income families are making what you would consider to be "better" decisions. So while I'm sure it can happen, what I don't think is true is that "every one" of the parents of needy children has the luxuries you're talking about or even a majority of them.And while I think that technology can be a helpful tool(in reference to your smart phone comment), it is not a helpful tool if you're not feeding your children. It is a waste of money. If that phone is a necessity of survival, perhaps getting a $150 a month data package + the best cell phone on the market isn't the right choice. Perhaps getting a small data package with a $100 used smart phone is the better choice. Perhaps sticking with your Xbox 360 or your playstation 3 is the better choice than upgrading the second the new model comes out. People live in a gimme gimme world, and I fear that throwing an extra $1000 at them just feeds their gimme needs as opposed to feeding their real needs. Their dependents.
You can't legislate responsible behaviour and, like you say, bad financial decisions exist with people regardless of income bracket. The prior financial crisis to this one was caused by millionaire bankers being reckless with money, after all. That's why, as it relates to poorer people, I've said that a UBI couldn't just replace the broader social framework that would try to make sure that government still exists to take care of people who, through no real fault of their own, need assistance above and beyond whatever direct financial aid they or their parents receive.
But, again, the responsibility of these purchases is a separate question to just the economic one. Stimulus should be directed at people who will spend the money locally if you want the most bang for your buck.
I'm not quite sure what you feel isn't true. With a spouse that is in administration in the local public school board, I can give you first hand accounts of families spending their cheques on the wrong things(Video games, technology, cell phones, booze, etc; ). It's not a one off. You'd be alarmed at the high amounts of people choosing themselves over their children. It's disheartening and disturbing.
I am sure your spouse has anecdotal evidence of that. I would assume that's largely because they would only be privy to information like that in the cases you're talking about but wouldn't be informed of the situations where lower income families are making what you would consider to be "better" decisions. So while I'm sure it can happen, what I don't think is true is that "every one" of the parents of needy children has the luxuries you're talking about or even a majority of them.And while I think that technology can be a helpful tool(in reference to your smart phone comment), it is not a helpful tool if you're not feeding your children. It is a waste of money. If that phone is a necessity of survival, perhaps getting a $150 a month data package + the best cell phone on the market isn't the right choice. Perhaps getting a small data package with a $100 used smart phone is the better choice. Perhaps sticking with your Xbox 360 or your playstation 3 is the better choice than upgrading the second the new model comes out. People live in a gimme gimme world, and I fear that throwing an extra $1000 at them just feeds their gimme needs as opposed to feeding their real needs. Their dependents.
You can't legislate responsible behaviour and, like you say, bad financial decisions exist with people regardless of income bracket. The prior financial crisis to this one was caused by millionaire bankers being reckless with money, after all. That's why, as it relates to poorer people, I've said that a UBI couldn't just replace the broader social framework that would try to make sure that government still exists to take care of people who, through no real fault of their own, need assistance above and beyond whatever direct financial aid they or their parents receive.
But, again, the responsibility of these purchases is a separate question to just the economic one. Stimulus should be directed at people who will spend the money locally if you want the most bang for your buck.
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing Nik.
I took issue with Bates saying that people need to make life choices. My point is, many people are incapable of making those decisions. Many people can't see past the end of their nose.
I'm not quite sure what you feel isn't true. With a spouse that is in administration in the local public school board, I can give you first hand accounts of families spending their cheques on the wrong things(Video games, technology, cell phones, booze, etc; ). It's not a one off. You'd be alarmed at the high amounts of people choosing themselves over their children. It's disheartening and disturbing.
I am sure your spouse has anecdotal evidence of that. I would assume that's largely because they would only be privy to information like that in the cases you're talking about but wouldn't be informed of the situations where lower income families are making what you would consider to be "better" decisions. So while I'm sure it can happen, what I don't think is true is that "every one" of the parents of needy children has the luxuries you're talking about or even a majority of them.And while I think that technology can be a helpful tool(in reference to your smart phone comment), it is not a helpful tool if you're not feeding your children. It is a waste of money. If that phone is a necessity of survival, perhaps getting a $150 a month data package + the best cell phone on the market isn't the right choice. Perhaps getting a small data package with a $100 used smart phone is the better choice. Perhaps sticking with your Xbox 360 or your playstation 3 is the better choice than upgrading the second the new model comes out. People live in a gimme gimme world, and I fear that throwing an extra $1000 at them just feeds their gimme needs as opposed to feeding their real needs. Their dependents.
You can't legislate responsible behaviour and, like you say, bad financial decisions exist with people regardless of income bracket. The prior financial crisis to this one was caused by millionaire bankers being reckless with money, after all. That's why, as it relates to poorer people, I've said that a UBI couldn't just replace the broader social framework that would try to make sure that government still exists to take care of people who, through no real fault of their own, need assistance above and beyond whatever direct financial aid they or their parents receive.
But, again, the responsibility of these purchases is a separate question to just the economic one. Stimulus should be directed at people who will spend the money locally if you want the most bang for your buck.
I don't think we're necessarily disagreeing Nik.
I took issue with Bates saying that people need to make life choices. My point is, many people are incapable of making those decisions. Many people can't see past the end of their nose.
And for those folks you can only provide so many safety nets. This program would be for the greater good of the vast majority.
TORONTO To further contain the spread of COVID-19, the Ontario Government will order the mandatory closure of all non-essential workplaces effective as of Tuesday, March 24th at 11:59 p.m. This closure will be in effect for 14 days with the possibility of extending this order as the situation evolves. A full list of businesses that are permitted to stay open will be released tomorrow.
https://news.ontario.ca/opo/en/2020/03/ontario-orders-the-mandatory-closure-of-all-non-essential-workplaces-to-fight-spread-of-covid-19.htmlQuoteTORONTO To further contain the spread of COVID-19, the Ontario Government will order the mandatory closure of all non-essential workplaces effective as of Tuesday, March 24th at 11:59 p.m. This closure will be in effect for 14 days with the possibility of extending this order as the situation evolves. A full list of businesses that are permitted to stay open will be released tomorrow.
Ontario Premier Doug Ford said all non-essential businesses in the province must close. This excludes manufacturers, grocery stores, LCBO shops, pharmacies and take-out restaurants.
The kids wont be going back to school on Apr. 6, Ford said. The reality is April the 6th is not realistic right now.
You all think youre invincible. Youre not. Enough is enough, he warned in an address to Canadians on Monday from Rideau Cottage, where he is currently in self-isolation.
Go home and stay home.
Prime Minister Trudeaus message to Canadians:QuoteYou all think youre invincible. Youre not. Enough is enough, he warned in an address to Canadians on Monday from Rideau Cottage, where he is currently in self-isolation.
Go home and stay home.
Rightly so.
https://globalnews.ca/news/6716919/trudeau-canada-update-coronavirus-march-23/ (https://globalnews.ca/news/6716919/trudeau-canada-update-coronavirus-march-23/)
Our grandparents were asked to go to war we asked these assholes to stay home on the couch and they can’t even do that.
— Chris Nilan (@KnucklesNilan30) March 18, 2020
Hopefully when he gets home, there is a sleeping bag on the porch and a sign on front door saying "see you in 2 weeks Buddy"
Me too, but a nice thought.
Of course his parents would have 55" TV, game controls, cooler and bbq set up for Bobby. And a big down comforter so he doesn't get to cold at night and of course his bong will be all cleaned up for him.
Me too, but a nice thought.
Of course his parents would have 55" TV, game controls, cooler and bbq set up for Bobby. And a big down comforter so he doesn't get to cold at night and of course his bong will be all cleaned up for him.
But you must know that Coronavirus cannot survive on the ice!!! ;)Me too, but a nice thought.
Of course his parents would have 55" TV, game controls, cooler and bbq set up for Bobby. And a big down comforter so he doesn't get to cold at night and of course his bong will be all cleaned up for him.
It's a clear result of the parenting motto of telling your kids "you can do and be whatever you want to be as long as you're happy! Here's a participation trophy!"
The biggest issue is it's not just kids acting like fools. There's people in every demographic acting foolishly. I've seen people gathered out on the lake ice fishing and partying. Their response: "It's not a big deal".....Sound familiar?
Disgracefully irresponsible dumbells:Our grandparents were asked to go to war we asked these assholes to stay home on the couch and they can’t even do that.
— Chris Nilan (@KnucklesNilan30) March 18, 2020
high school graduate and Soundcloud rapper
He has since apologized, apparently.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/coronavirus-spring-break-instagram-apology-miami-video-viral
Disgracefully irresponsible dumbells:Our grandparents were asked to go to war we asked these assholes to stay home on the couch and they can’t even do that.
— Chris Nilan (@KnucklesNilan30) March 18, 2020
He has since apologized, apparently.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/juliareinstein/coronavirus-spring-break-instagram-apology-miami-video-viral
Also, this is the least surprising thing I've read about him:Quotehigh school graduate and Soundcloud rapper
Oh hey look. Trump's FDA rushed through an application to grant Gilead exclusive rights to one of the drugs being trialed for treatment of COVID. This is not a good thing for the world at large.
As The Intercept reported, the designation was given to a company where Joe Grogan, a member of President Donald Trump's "coronavirus task force," worked as a lobbyist from 2011 to 2017, often working on issues regarding drug pricing.
I really try hard not to present the people I disagree with politically as being cartoonishly evil but the number of people out there right now arguing that we should be willing to accept thousands of deaths so that damage to a certain section of the economy(and, to be fair, just the financial sector) is contained is really making that hard to do.
I really try hard not to present the people I disagree with politically as being cartoonishly evil but the number of people out there right now arguing that we should be willing to accept thousands of deaths so that damage to a certain section of the economy(and, to be fair, just the financial sector) is contained is really making that hard to do.
It's really baffling to me that the guy is polling with a 60% approval rating on how he is handling COVID-19.
I also think, to some extent, it's because right now a lot of this is an abstraction. The numbers are relatively low of infected/casualties and so people are just seeing the response and not the consequences.
I also think, to some extent, it's because right now a lot of this is an abstraction. The numbers are relatively low of infected/casualties and so people are just seeing the response and not the consequences.
Your right. Just wait for two weeks when the U.S. is looking like Italy and see what his approval rating is.
I really try hard not to present the people I disagree with politically as being cartoonishly evil but the number of people out there right now arguing that we should be willing to accept thousands of deaths so that damage to a certain section of the economy(and, to be fair, just the financial sector) is contained is really making that hard to do.
My largest frustration and is part of why we are all in the pickle we are in now, is that not one government picked up on the message's that were being sent out by so many experts like noted Epidemiologist Larry Brilliant who forewarned of this disaster in a TED talk 14 years ago, or like Bill Gates who said exactly the same things in his TED talk in 2015. Gate's even used graphics that showed what looks exactly what a Coronavirus looks like in his talk, as well as the need to stockpile, huge amounts of N-95 masks, shields, gloves, beds and ventilators.
Strange how we spend so much money on military goods but almost nothing to prepare for the invisible war that Trump keeps referring to.
Imagine if the entire world was not scrambling for Ventilators, masks, beds etc. Perhaps the need to stretch out the bell curve wouldn't have been necessary or SO necessary, as we would have had the resources in place to deal with the outbreak.
Currently we are hunkered down, isolating and social distancing ourselves while we buy time for Ford, Tesla and other mega corps to manufacture the equipment we need to save society and buy ourselves some time to develop a vaccine or some other treatment to stem the tide of this scourge.
I am so pissed that we were not prepared in Canada. Now we are spending almost 90 billion to bail ourselves out. Perhaps 5 or 6 billion spent over the last 10 years would have spared us all a lot of grief and suffering.
I'm no expert, but my first thought is if we could have prepped for a virus like this, aren't there a 100 other things we could be prepping for too?
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.
But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.
True, there are lots of things we could be prepping for. The difference between this one and most of the others is that we've experienced two pretty serious coronavirus epidemics in relatively recent history (SARS and MERS), as well as a number of influenza outbreaks with similar symptoms/potential complications. While we may not have been able to predict this specific outbreak, the world could definitely have been better prepared in terms of having the right equipment, staffing, etc., to deal with it.
But I think you know as well as any of us that MERS and SARS would have been used by certain people to "prove" that we don't need special precautions because they were relatively contained.
I thought I read that they did stock up on N95 masks but I could be mistaken. I'll see what I can find.
It's about time this was reported by the mainstream. New York hospitals treating corona patients with VITAMIN C https://t.co/L9ct9CKMJC via @MailOnline
— Zoltan P. Rona (@drzoltanrona) March 25, 2020
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it
Health officials say physical distancing restrictions in B.C. are successfully beginning to slow the number of new COVID-19 cases in the province, perhaps by as much as half.
But despite the "glimmer of hope," provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and other officials stressed that the province is not out of the woods and the health-care system still needs to be prepared for an inevitable surge in hospitalizations.
"I'm trying not to over-call it, but I do believe we've seen a flattening, a falling-off of that curve," Henry said Friday, referring to the growth of new COVID-19 patients in B.C.
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it
Just what misinterpretation are you alluding to?
The conclusion at the end of the article concludes and summaries the findings of the observational study. The conclusion speaks for itself.
Some encouraging news (from B.C.):I live in BC in the interior and I can attest that people are wearing gloves, using leftover hand sanitizer, and keeping their distance. So perhaps we will be spared somewhat or caught in the 2nd wave that seems to be coming like a distant tsunami. Hope I am not being negative. Hope we all survive this...seems people are drinking a lot more....QuoteHealth officials say physical distancing restrictions in B.C. are successfully beginning to slow the number of new COVID-19 cases in the province, perhaps by as much as half.
But despite the "glimmer of hope," provincial health officer Dr. Bonnie Henry and other officials stressed that the province is not out of the woods and the health-care system still needs to be prepared for an inevitable surge in hospitalizations.
"I'm trying not to over-call it, but I do believe we've seen a flattening, a falling-off of that curve," Henry said Friday, referring to the growth of new COVID-19 patients in B.C.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-19-bc-modelling-numbers-dr-bonnie-henry-1.5512269
I said it was not normal protocol for this site, but not normal times, if the curators want to pull down the post, let them. However to get a E-com website designed by a master (believe me I have worked with him for 3 years and seen amazing results) for 2K is a steal. Try finding that anywhere. And I never said it was a charity.
Do you expect him to do it for free? The main thing is if your business was closed and you are not selling squat, then you have a chance to change this, even if you use a different service to do so. I call it fighting the invisible war this way.
People have lost their livelihoods, so if this offends you by someone trying to help then you have to look at yourself. I will do a lot of positive things for society without rewards as I have always done, part of my makeup. If I can help someone get there business back on their feet then that is a good thing.
I will leave it to the curators whether they want to remove the post.
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it
Just what misinterpretation are you alluding to?
The conclusion at the end of the article concludes and summaries the findings of the observational study. The conclusion speaks for itself.
If I'm reading the article correctly, the vitamin injections are being used to treat a byproduct of the infection in the very ill -sepsis. It's not being used as any other benefit that I could ascertain, and yet it takes careful reading past the sensationalist headlines to actually get any valid information.
It's these sort of articles that infuriates me, because they're manipulative, and often quoted with an agenda.
Did you actually read the article because your conclusion and what the authors advocate and discuss are not remotely in line with where you are trying to peddle it
Just what misinterpretation are you alluding to?
The conclusion at the end of the article concludes and summaries the findings of the observational study. The conclusion speaks for itself.
Alright. Unless it's coming from the WHO, CDC, or PHAC please refrain from posting medical advice. That's that.
This includes, but is not limited to, alternative forms of medicine and anything even remotely anti-vaxxy.
Keep your Vitamin C recommendations for your Facebook friends.
Gonna try my hand at baking bread tomorrow
Do you have a method/recipe? I'm thinking of using my instant pot to help proof the bread quicker.Gonna try my hand at baking bread tomorrow
I started baking bread about a month before this all started.
It's very easy.
Do you have a method/recipe? I'm thinking of using my instant pot to help proof the bread quicker.Gonna try my hand at baking bread tomorrow
I started baking bread about a month before this all started.
It's very easy.
Thank you @sergeibaka for helping us say thank you to our @TOPublicHealth heroes and for spreading the word about how we can all help to stop the spread of #COVID19 @Raptors @cityoftoronto @bradrossTO https://t.co/FKbWyxPBCv
— Matthew Pegg (@ChiefPeggTFS) March 27, 2020
For those of us who would like to do this, a tip on how to clean your smartphone (a worthy idea for anytime not just for now):
https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/carriers/telus/telus-clean-smartphone-covid-19/
It has really been interesting to see how many people are baking right now. You cant find flour in any of the grocery stores in my area.
It has really been interesting to see how many people are baking right now. You cant find flour in any of the grocery stores in my area.
Ditto, been making half a bag last for regular cooking. Bread is out of the question. Would be a great thing to do with the kids, but no flour or sugar for a while now. Grocery store says they get it in small batches and it sells immediately.
Just a note. The dough will rise better in a warmer then room temp environment. You can leave it on top of the stove vent, usually back right burner, with the oven on low to generate heat.Do you have a method/recipe? I'm thinking of using my instant pot to help proof the bread quicker.Gonna try my hand at baking bread tomorrow
I started baking bread about a month before this all started.
It's very easy.
I use a stand mixer and loaf pans.
I don't remember which specific recipe I used, there are so many out there but the rough process I used was:
Dry active yeast and sugar in warm water in the bowl of my stand mixer, let it stand until the yeast bubbles.
Add flour with salt to the bowl and mix with the dough hook.
Add flour as necessary
When the dough is kneaded, transfer it to a lightly oiled bowl turn the dough over to coat the dough in oil
Cover and let rise for 60-90 minutes.
Transfer to loaf pan and let rise covered for another 30 minutes
Bake at 350 for 30-35 minutes.
Again, just a rough process and there are so many recipes out there to get propotions ingredients
It has really been interesting to see how many people are baking right now. You cant find flour in any of the grocery stores in my area.
Ditto, been making half a bag last for regular cooking. Bread is out of the question. Would be a great thing to do with the kids, but no flour or sugar for a while now. Grocery store says they get it in small batches and it sells immediately.
I used to work at Bulk Barn as a teenager briefly. They get loads of shipments, and flour comes in bulk bags of 40kg. I'd give them a call if you need baking supplies :)
Is Bulk Barn open? The bulk section (candy and nuts mostly) in my grocery store has been shut down.
Is Bulk Barn open? The bulk section (candy and nuts mostly) in my grocery store has been shut down.
https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/ (https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/)
They're open (with reduced hours, looks like 10am-6pm) but have workers doing all the scooping for you, something grocery stores probably can't handle. Although I was at a Fortinos yesterday and the bulk section was still open there.
Although the Bulk Barn isn't somewhere I'd visit in the current climate, it is still a business I've frequented in the past and will continue to in the future.Is Bulk Barn open? The bulk section (candy and nuts mostly) in my grocery store has been shut down.
https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/ (https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/)
They're open (with reduced hours, looks like 10am-6pm) but have workers doing all the scooping for you, something grocery stores probably can't handle. Although I was at a Fortinos yesterday and the bulk section was still open there.
Be careful when taking bulk items. Its been ages that I no longer shop at a Bulk Barn Store. My late brother and I used to do so ages ago but we eventually stopped after I felt unwell after having eaten some of these bulk foods.
You never know if theyre really hygienic with so many people scooping out and opening the containers. Unless certain foods chocolates, for example and only some come pre-wrapped, I would avoid anything else.
This precaution would also apply to any other grocery store that sells bulk foods (Fortinos, etc). Judging from what Ive seen, nothing much has changed in the way bulk foods are stored.
Its up to you the individual (and if you absolutely need to), otherwise would I prefer to avoid.
Although the Bulk Barn isn't somewhere I'd visit in the current climate, it is still a business I've frequented in the past and will continue to in the future.Is Bulk Barn open? The bulk section (candy and nuts mostly) in my grocery store has been shut down.
https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/ (https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/)
They're open (with reduced hours, looks like 10am-6pm) but have workers doing all the scooping for you, something grocery stores probably can't handle. Although I was at a Fortinos yesterday and the bulk section was still open there.
Be careful when taking bulk items. Its been ages that I no longer shop at a Bulk Barn Store. My late brother and I used to do so ages ago but we eventually stopped after I felt unwell after having eaten some of these bulk foods.
You never know if theyre really hygienic with so many people scooping out and opening the containers. Unless certain foods chocolates, for example and only some come pre-wrapped, I would avoid anything else.
This precaution would also apply to any other grocery store that sells bulk foods (Fortinos, etc). Judging from what Ive seen, nothing much has changed in the way bulk foods are stored.
Its up to you the individual (and if you absolutely need to), otherwise would I prefer to avoid.
Having worked in the food industry for 15 years, it really drives me crazy when people blame "not feeling well" on a business. Unless you can pinpoint the salmonella you got from eating something that was contaminated, don't drag a business through the mud because you got a belly ache.
Is Bulk Barn open? The bulk section (candy and nuts mostly) in my grocery store has been shut down.
https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/ (https://www.bulkbarn.ca/home-en/)
They're open (with reduced hours, looks like 10am-6pm) but have workers doing all the scooping for you, something grocery stores probably can't handle. Although I was at a Fortinos yesterday and the bulk section was still open there.
Be careful when taking bulk items. Its been ages that I no longer shop at a Bulk Barn Store. My late brother and I used to do so ages ago but we eventually stopped after I felt unwell after having eaten some of these bulk foods.
You never know if theyre really hygienic with so many people scooping out and opening the containers. Unless certain foods chocolates, for example and only some come pre-wrapped, I would avoid anything else.
This precaution would also apply to any other grocery store that sells bulk foods (Fortinos, etc). Judging from what Ive seen, nothing much has changed in the way bulk foods are stored.
Its up to you the individual (and if you absolutely need to), otherwise would I prefer to avoid.
This is how far back we have to put the swab to test you for #COVID19.
— Jessica Peck, DNP APRN CPNP-PC (@DrPeckPNP) March 29, 2020
You might want to follow medical recommendations and #StayHome. pic.twitter.com/gCMqUdpsEk
This is how far back we have to put the swab to test you for #COVID19.
— Jessica Peck, DNP APRN CPNP-PC (@DrPeckPNP) March 29, 2020
You might want to follow medical recommendations and #StayHome. pic.twitter.com/gCMqUdpsEk
BREAKING: Toronto chief public health official says distancing measures and enforcement may have to be in effect for 12 weeks. Dr. Eileen de Villa says the goal is to save lives and reduce cumulative economic cause.
— CBC News Alerts (@CBCAlerts) April 1, 2020
Having a press conference, sitting 3 ft apart from eachother, telling us to stay home and social distance.Seriously? Your sense of distance bodes well for keeping your distance if you think this is 3 feet.
These are our leaders... ::)
The advice of public health professionals has guided us throughout this crisis, and that will continue to do so going forward. But as we continue to fight #COVID19, it has become absolutely clear that this is going to be a very long battle and there is more to do. pic.twitter.com/QqCdt6FhD4
— John Tory (@JohnTory) April 1, 2020
I don't know how the media reporting is looking over there, but I'm starting to get annoyed with media here, it's like they're all looking for the youngest people who have died. The headlines here everyday is pretty much related to that, and people are getting very worried about that. I think that the media should at least make it clear how unusual it is that young people die in this disease. It may not serve public health to do what they do now. Yes, it's important to be careful and have respect for this virus and follow recommendations and rules, but I also think we need some perspective.I would rather shock people into compliance like they do when you watch drunk driving videos than giving a false sense of security by reporting only or more strongly the deaths of the old. The young dying, but also importantly, getting sick, are all vectors for this thing to spread because to them it's not a big deal. Just look at the idiot spring breakers in Florida.
There's no good reason not to teleconference honestly.Having a press conference, sitting 3 ft apart from eachother, telling us to stay home and social distance.Seriously? Your sense of distance bodes well for keeping your distance if you think this is 3 feet.
These are our leaders... ::)The advice of public health professionals has guided us throughout this crisis, and that will continue to do so going forward. But as we continue to fight #COVID19, it has become absolutely clear that this is going to be a very long battle and there is more to do. pic.twitter.com/QqCdt6FhD4
— John Tory (@JohnTory) April 1, 2020
I don't know how the media reporting is looking over there, but I'm starting to get annoyed with media here, it's like they're all looking for the youngest people who have died. The headlines here everyday is pretty much related to that, and people are getting very worried about that. I think that the media should at least make it clear how unusual it is that young people die in this disease. It may not serve public health to do what they do now. Yes, it's important to be careful and have respect for this virus and follow recommendations and rules, but I also think we need some perspective.I would rather shock people into compliance like they do when you watch drunk driving videos than giving a false sense of security by reporting only or more strongly the deaths of the old. The young dying, but also importantly, getting sick, are all vectors for this thing to spread because to them it's not a big deal. Just look at the idiot spring breakers in Florida.
I don't know how the media reporting is looking over there, but I'm starting to get annoyed with media here, it's like they're all looking for the youngest people who have died. The headlines here everyday is pretty much related to that, and people are getting very worried about that. I think that the media should at least make it clear how unusual it is that young people die in this disease. It may not serve public health to do what they do now. Yes, it's important to be careful and have respect for this virus and follow recommendations and rules, but I also think we need some perspective.The London Police were called to a city owned golf course after complaints of people being on the closed course. When they arrived they found that someone had cut the fence. There were thirty young men playing golf. They were given a warning and sent on their way.No charges were laid. I guess the scare tactics aren't working.
I don't know how the media reporting is looking over there, but I'm starting to get annoyed with media here, it's like they're all looking for the youngest people who have died. The headlines here everyday is pretty much related to that, and people are getting very worried about that. I think that the media should at least make it clear how unusual it is that young people die in this disease. It may not serve public health to do what they do now. Yes, it's important to be careful and have respect for this virus and follow recommendations and rules, but I also think we need some perspective.The London Police were called to a city owned golf course after complaints of people being on the closed course. When they arrived they found that someone had cut the fence. There were thirty young men playing golf. They were given a warning and sent on their way.No charges were laid. I guess the scare tactics aren't working.
"My orders to the police and military ... if there is trouble and there's an occasion that they fight back and your lives are in danger, shoot them dead."
If you are young and think you are immune to COVID-19, some doctors would like you to pay attention to the following message:
"While COVID-19 is less likely to cause serious symptoms in younger people, in combination with substance use like vaping or smoking cigarettes or cannabis, it could pose a serious health threat," says a March 24 commentary written by Dr. Nicholas Chadi and Dr. Richard Blanger of the Canadian Pediatric Society.
They are among the public health experts sounding the alarm about the possible connections between lung damage caused by smoking or vaping and increased vulnerability to the novel coronavirus.
* * *
"It's part of this idea that young people have that they're bulletproof, that these things are for older people. Well, this is about changing that attitude, and doing it very quickly," he said.
There is evidence that smoking not only leads to respiratory diseases and chronic lung conditions, but also suppresses and harms the immune system, "so that when people do get sick, they have a harder time fighting it," Hammond said.
Reminds me of the joke, "wake up, it's time for your sleeping pill". Or in the Philippines, shoot first, ask questions....never.
Well that might work.
I don't know how the media reporting is looking over there, but I'm starting to get annoyed with media here, it's like they're all looking for the youngest people who have died. The headlines here everyday is pretty much related to that, and people are getting very worried about that. I think that the media should at least make it clear how unusual it is that young people die in this disease. It may not serve public health to do what they do now. Yes, it's important to be careful and have respect for this virus and follow recommendations and rules, but I also think we need some perspective.
One of the most difficult things for me right now is just the extent to which this whole thing has just permeated my every thought. I went on ESPN and they were grading NFL free agent signings and, I don't know, it felt bizarrely obscene. Like, I know sports leagues still went on during WW2 and other big conflicts and I know that Football writers still have a job to do but it's just so hard for me to imagine anyone out there being able to think about whether or not the Chicago Bears paid a good price for their new strong side safety.
Do you not feel that a distraction is sometimes needed in times like this?
Do you not feel that a distraction is sometimes needed in times like this?
Oh absolutely. I wasn't saying anyone was wrong for doing it. Like i said, what's tough for me is the way it's permeated my thoughts. If someone else is able to distract themselves with that stuff I don't begrudge it at all. I envy it. It just feels like dispatches from another universe to me right now.
Emergency volumes have plummeted all over the country, said Dr. Daniel Kalla, the head of the emergency department at St. Pauls Hospital, in downtown Vancouver. People are so fearful of hospitals, understandably, he said. They just arent coming in.
Quiet ERs could be a sign that social isolation is working. Fewer people out in the world mean fewer car crashes, drunken brawls and other scourges of the ER. But doctors warn it could also foreshadow a significant problem to come.
Were certainly hearing stories of people with abdominal pains and chest pains and all sorts of bad symptoms, like stroke symptoms, who are just not coming to the hospital because theyre too afraid, said Belchetz. Its actually somewhat of a tragedy.
For some emergency medicine doctors, meanwhile, the slowdown in admissions has created something of an unexpected lull right before what could be the most harrowing stretch of their careers. Very fortunately, we havent seen this big surge in the super sick, which we were prepared for, and have been expecting, said Kalla. God willing, well never see it, but the next two weeks will tell.
Do you not feel that a distraction is sometimes needed in times like this?
Oh absolutely. I wasn't saying anyone was wrong for doing it. Like i said, what's tough for me is the way it's permeated my thoughts. If someone else is able to distract themselves with that stuff I don't begrudge it at all. I envy it. It just feels like dispatches from another universe to me right now.
Trump, you incompetent idiot! You sent 18 tons of PPE to China early but ignored warnings & called COVID19 concerns a hoax. You've endangered doctors, nurses, aids, orderlies, & janitors - all risking their lives to save ours. Pray 4 forgiveness for the harm that you're causing!
— Maxine Waters (@RepMaxineWaters) March 30, 2020
Oh boy does this speak volumes!Trump, you incompetent idiot! You sent 18 tons of PPE to China early but ignored warnings & called COVID19 concerns a hoax. You've endangered doctors, nurses, aids, orderlies, & janitors - all risking their lives to save ours. Pray 4 forgiveness for the harm that you're causing!
— Maxine Waters (@RepMaxineWaters) March 30, 2020
We have not been out of the house for over a week. I finally decided to make a grocery store run yesterday. I had a list to get that should last for two weeks. There were numerous couples shopping and I watched a woman buying bananas pick up 8 different bunches and put them back. I finally asked her from a safe distance if she intended to touch them all.She scowled at me took the ones in her hand and walked up to the checkout line. that was the only thing she bought.
We have not been out of the house for over a week. I finally decided to make a grocery store run yesterday. I had a list to get that should last for two weeks. There were numerous couples shopping and I watched a woman buying bananas pick up 8 different bunches and put them back. I finally asked her from a safe distance if she intended to touch them all.She scowled at me took the ones in her hand and walked up to the checkout line. that was the only thing she bought.
We have not been out of the house for over a week. I finally decided to make a grocery store run yesterday. I had a list to get that should last for two weeks. There were numerous couples shopping and I watched a woman buying bananas pick up 8 different bunches and put them back. I finally asked her from a safe distance if she intended to touch them all.She scowled at me took the ones in her hand and walked up to the checkout line. that was the only thing she bought.
I like banana bread as much as the next person, but it hardly warrants a specific trip to the grocery store right now.
Someone going to the grocery store to buy one item of that nature would suggest they aren't taking this whole thing seriously as probably has been potentially exposing themselves to on a regular basis. Those are the people I would be afraid of getting close to.
My wife was at the local supermarket with her homemade mask and latex gloves slathered up with Purcell and there was a man touching every single pepper on the shelve with his bare. She didn't say what Wayne said but she also didn't buy the pepper she was intending to buy. Why are people so damn ignorant?
We have not been out of the house for over a week. I finally decided to make a grocery store run yesterday. I had a list to get that should last for two weeks. There were numerous couples shopping and I watched a woman buying bananas pick up 8 different bunches and put them back. I finally asked her from a safe distance if she intended to touch them all.She scowled at me took the ones in her hand and walked up to the checkout line. that was the only thing she bought.
Much talk has been made about Bill Gates and his philanthropic interest in aiding against the Coronavirus pandemic. A closer scrutiny of his foundation (& other foundations owned by billionaires such as Warren Buffet)) show enormous conflicts of interest. Just who are these foundations really helping?This is the same Bill Gates that in a 2015 TED talk warned of the coronavirus saying that it would not be nuclear conflict that we had to worry about, but a virus that looked exactly like the picture Bill pulled out in his talk. He also pulled out pictures of masks, plastic shields, ventilators, gloves and field beds. Warned us that this would be on us in 5 to 10 years. I guess world leaders where listening as they signed contracts for billion dollar warplanes etc.
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/
A second for some perspective here: Approx. 22,000 Canadians die each month based upon 2019 figures. I had 6 friends and family die just before Coronvirus arrived in force. This happened in a 3 week span. Two died from Cancer, one a heart attack, 3 from old age/dementia. Yet if they had died after exposure to Coronavirus would they have died from Coronavirus or natural causes?
We have not been out of the house for over a week. I finally decided to make a grocery store run yesterday. I had a list to get that should last for two weeks. There were numerous couples shopping and I watched a woman buying bananas pick up 8 different bunches and put them back. I finally asked her from a safe distance if she intended to touch them all.She scowled at me took the ones in her hand and walked up to the checkout line. that was the only thing she bought.
I like banana bread as much as the next person, but it hardly warrants a specific trip to the grocery store right now.
Someone going to the grocery store to buy one item of that nature would suggest they aren't taking this whole thing seriously as probably has been potentially exposing themselves to on a regular basis. Those are the people I would be afraid of getting close to.
The follow on the discussion theme of fear mongering vs. focusing on positive. Yes, we should definitely be celebrating the success stories more. We should be talking about the recovered people. We should be praising the health care workers who are finishing their shifts and going back for more the next day. We should be having better respect for the grocers and people still serving coffees out of the drive-thru.
We also need to highlight the start reality that no one individual can escape the disease if they have the wrong factors and it doesn't matter if you are healthy or never get sick. If you aren't protecting yourself, you are doing it to protect others and being gentle doesn't get the message across to idiots who think they are above everyone else.
In Sweden I think we have 3 deaths under the age of 50, and the ones who seem to worry the most are people under 50. Media is constantly posting articles about young people all over the world that die. So I hold media responsible if mental health issues increase a lot for young people, well the media and unemployment.Hey Stebro, What is going on over in Sweden? My wife is British and goes to the BBC site and she seems to think that people are out and about, eating in resto's and bars and such.
I sent critical comments with my perspective to a big paper here, and asked them to inform people that we have 3 deaths under the age of 50 of a population of over 10 million (obviously all of them are not 0-50). Kudos to them since they posted it, and just stating that what I said was correct, and they will try to lift that perspective more.
Hey Highlander, I'll try to make a summary of what it's like in Sweden right now:In Sweden I think we have 3 deaths under the age of 50, and the ones who seem to worry the most are people under 50. Media is constantly posting articles about young people all over the world that die. So I hold media responsible if mental health issues increase a lot for young people, well the media and unemployment.Hey Stebro, What is going on over in Sweden? My wife is British and goes to the BBC site and she seems to think that people are out and about, eating in resto's and bars and such.
I sent critical comments with my perspective to a big paper here, and asked them to inform people that we have 3 deaths under the age of 50 of a population of over 10 million (obviously all of them are not 0-50). Kudos to them since they posted it, and just stating that what I said was correct, and they will try to lift that perspective more.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52076293?intlink_from_url=https://www.bbc.com/news/topics/c77jz3md4rwt/sweden&link_location=live-reporting-story
Looks like you are having more fun than poor Moi!
Trump was warned as early as January that something wasnt right concerning the situation in China by U.S. Inteliugence. In fact, it was as early as December when alarm began to sprout in earnest. The Trump administration, namely Trump himself chose to ignore such warnings. The original pandemic intelligence council, propped up by the previous (Obama) administration that was put in place to keep watch on outbreaks of Ebola and other potential epidemics & pandemics, was long disbanded by the Trump administration.
The fact that the United States, once a world leader, has no national nor unifying plan and is nothing more than a disorganized and rudderless mess, in what should have amounted to a concerted and direct effort to at least be somewhat better prepared & equipped to handle such a scenario, is a result of the ineptitude and volatility of its leader in the White House.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/03/18/coronavirus-did-president-trumps-decision-disband-global-pandemic-office-hinder-response/5064881002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2020/03/18/coronavirus-did-president-trumps-decision-disband-global-pandemic-office-hinder-response/5064881002/)
BTW Trumps decision to halt supply shipments to Canada is very frankly, by any other name, insulting.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/03/3m-warns-of-white-house-order-to-stop-exporting-masks-to-canada-163060
The best evidence around the virus that we have is that the virus is not contagious when people are not symptomatic."
But a growing body of research indicates they were wrong. In fact, people don't have to appear ill at all to infect others.
Jeffrey Shaman, a professor of environmental health sciences at Columbia University in New York, says he is frustrated when people deny that asymptomatic spread can happen.
Shaman and other researchers argue that even two months ago, officials like Tam and Hajdu should have been more open to the possibility of asymptomatic transmission, considering by that point there was a flurry of research being undertaken by scientists racing to understand how the virus was spreading so fast and far. Many of those researchers suspected asymptomatic transmission.
His research found that while undocumented cases those with mild or no symptoms who did not have a confirmed diagnosis at the time were only half as infectious as symptomatic ones, they were the source for nearly 80 per cent of documented cases. That's because people who feel fine are the ones out and about, travelling and interacting with more people.
Asked whether it's fair to say these so-called silent spreaders are "super-spreaders," Shaman replied: "Yes."
Dr. Allison McGeer, an infectious disease specialist with Sinai Health System in Toronto, argues while Tam's messaging about asymptomatic spread back in January "might not have been ideal," there's a good chance people would not have been onside with major restrictions to their lives before they could see proof of how serious the problem was. After all, Canada only reported its first case of COVID-19 in late January.
"There is evidence that if officials appear uncertain about things, people lose trust. They get angry. They don't follow guidance. So we put this demand on public health people to have answers when there are no answers. And that's just an impossible situation," she said.
They are so worried about their political lives, for the most part, that they've chosen to sit on the fence instead of being leaders, and leading. Trudeau getting on TV every day at 11 and skirting questions does nothing. Listen to his interviews. It's just regurgitated crap about what they're doing for us. He sounds like a high school class president going for reelection. Talking about all the pizza days he's going to get for everyone.
Much talk has been made about Bill Gates and his philanthropic interest in aiding against the Coronavirus pandemic. A closer scrutiny of his foundation (& other foundations owned by billionaires such as Warren Buffet)) show enormous conflicts of interest. Just who are these foundations really helping?
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/
They are so worried about their political lives, for the most part, that they've chosen to sit on the fence instead of being leaders, and leading. Trudeau getting on TV every day at 11 and skirting questions does nothing. Listen to his interviews. It's just regurgitated crap about what they're doing for us. He sounds like a high school class president going for reelection. Talking about all the pizza days he's going to get for everyone.
See, I think this is exactly the sort of thing that doesn't really help. "Leadership" means different things to different people and whether you fall into the group or not, there are people who think what Trudeau is doing is effective at getting the government's message across and comforting. A lot of people like the economic response.
I had a hunch that the issue is yes, people die naturally all the time, sometimes due chronic conditions, something like seasonal flu picks people off also, but Dr. David Fisman also pointed out, COVID kills people because of COVID. I just think to myself I have an underlying condition of asthma. I have had breathing issues when sick previously but I've almost never been scared of the flu and my symptoms are well managed. COVID throws a wrench into all of that. Certain people with underlying conditions could be predisposed to ARDS if they get COVID but under 99% of normal circumstances a lot of these problems are manageable and people can live long lives even with the multitude of illnesses people contract every year, COVID has a much higher probability of killing those same people. Moreover the number of people requiring oxygen/ventilators seem to be a giveaway that this will kill people if we aren't able to deliver pretty drastic medical intervention. Some people would've died anyway with a different illness but my hunch would be a large proportion of the population would still be with us otherwise.A second for some perspective here: Approx. 22,000 Canadians die each month based upon 2019 figures. I had 6 friends and family die just before Coronvirus arrived in force. This happened in a 3 week span. Two died from Cancer, one a heart attack, 3 from old age/dementia. Yet if they had died after exposure to Coronavirus would they have died from Coronavirus or natural causes?
It really depends on the acute cause. When we fill out death certificates the form has several things that show up.
The Ontario death certficate has a few lines:
1) Immediate cause of death
2) Antecedent causes that led to death
3) Significant conditions contributing to death but not directly related to the cause of death
So lets say you died from a bad pneumonia
1) Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome
2) Pneumonia
3) COPD
Line two has a part a, part b, part c kind of list. So for something like COVID-19. It would be COVID-19 leads to Pneumonia.
Now lets say you have COPD but also died from COVID
1) Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome
2a) Pneumonia
2b) COVID-19
3) COPD
If we take say the dementia patient it would depend on what symptoms they had at the time of death.
If it was someone who was in the end stages of their dementia and they passed away without clear respiratory symptoms but did secondarily test positive for COVID they still could have a cause of death as dementia. If they died from acute respiratory symptoms their cause of death would be the respiratory failure and not dementia. So COVID will certainly change the most likely cause of death for some people.
In Sweden I think we have 3 deaths under the age of 50, and the ones who seem to worry the most are people under 50. Media is constantly posting articles about young people all over the world that die. So I hold media responsible if mental health issues increase a lot for young people, well the media and unemployment.There's a fine line between being overly fixated on deaths and rates but also getting the message out there that nobody should take things lightly. Again, they are probably hoping to shock people into recognizing that this is a big deal. I agree that it's not accurate to fixate on cherry picking deaths of young people worldwide but I also wouldn't want there to be complacency amongst the young just because you are statistically less likely to die than someone who is older. For example, a 0.1% death rate still isn't a good death rate if we are looking at an illness that could affect 50%+ of a total demographic group.
I sent critical comments with my perspective to a big paper here, and asked them to inform people that we have 3 deaths under the age of 50 of a population of over 10 million (obviously all of them are not 0-50). Kudos to them since they posted it, and just stating that what I said was correct, and they will try to lift that perspective more.
Hear hear!! Every organization is deserving of scrutiny but I'd rather deal with ones that are overtly awful first rather than worrying about one that, though has flaws, is very likely a net positive for the world.Much talk has been made about Bill Gates and his philanthropic interest in aiding against the Coronavirus pandemic. A closer scrutiny of his foundation (& other foundations owned by billionaires such as Warren Buffet)) show enormous conflicts of interest. Just who are these foundations really helping?
https://www.thenation.com/article/society/bill-gates-foundation-philanthropy/
You need to look at the big picture. The big picture is that the vast majority of the charity goes to good causes. Buried deep in the article is this line:
... there is no credible argument that Bill and Melinda Gates use charity primarily as a vehicle to enrich themselves or their foundation...
Ten seconds of googling came up with these facts:
* the bill gates foundation has donated more than $40 billion to the elimination of extreme poverty
* the bill gates foundation recently donated 1 billion to fight malaria
Did Bill Gates give $80 million to the school his kids attend? Yes. Is that wrong? No. When put in the context of him giving $40 billion to fight poverty, it is totally irrelevant. Critiquing him for giving money to his kids school is like critiquing someone for buying girlscout cookies from a Toronto child. That money that you used to buy girlscout cookies could have been used to feed a starving child in Africa or buy a mosquito net for an impoverished family. If you have ever gone out to a restaurant or bought a gift for anyone in Toronto, you are as guilty as Bill Gates of spending money on something that is inessential when there are people around the world dying of starvation or AIDS or other diseases.
When it comes to the article's points about him giving money to businesses, those are also a drop in the bucket. But more importantly, giving to those businesses might be the most effective way to get aid to people in need. For example, the article states that he gave $19 million donation to a Mastercard affiliate in 2014 to increase usage of digital financial products by poor adults in Kenya. The article makes no attempt to investigate whether that might be a good thing. It's easy to imagine it is a good thing -- it gives access to cash to poor people to help develop their economy. The article is trying to slime him, for what reason, I have no idea (probably clickbait), but the notion that he's somehow trying to make money off by donating to a program that helps get financial products to Kenyans is beyond ludicrous. If Bill Gates wanted to make money, there are plenty of vastly better ways he could do it than that.
Let's focus our critiques on people that are actually evil -- the Kochs and their network, Rupert Murdoch, Sheldon Adelson, Mitch McConnell, the Trumps, the Kushners, DeVos, etc.
I understand people want more concrete answers but in some instances it makes sense that he's skirting certain questions. He was baited a few times into slamming the US for their 3M decision yesterday. No PM in their right mind would do that and if he did that would be grossly negligent considering they have swayed the President's advisors in most positions he's taken in the past. Say they need us, say we will ramp up production, give him a couple compliments and letting our politicians do that work vs. slamming the States publicly is exactly what should be done. People love blustery populist tone but I really don't think it makes sense right now. I'm willing to cut him some slack for now in not delving into the actual specifics of each question.They are so worried about their political lives, for the most part, that they've chosen to sit on the fence instead of being leaders, and leading. Trudeau getting on TV every day at 11 and skirting questions does nothing. Listen to his interviews. It's just regurgitated crap about what they're doing for us. He sounds like a high school class president going for reelection. Talking about all the pizza days he's going to get for everyone.
See, I think this is exactly the sort of thing that doesn't really help. "Leadership" means different things to different people and whether you fall into the group or not, there are people who think what Trudeau is doing is effective at getting the government's message across and comforting. A lot of people like the economic response.
When it comes time for genuine accountability we're going to have to deal in specifics. Why weren't specific policies implemented at specific times and so on. Talking about "leadership" in the absence of specifics seems destined to fall into typical partisan disagreements where a lot of minds are largely made up before things start.
Also, as much as we might not want to hear it a lot of those questions aren't going to come with easy answers. We'll need to figure out things for next time as much as recriminate here. Do we want the PM to have the power to unilaterally impose a nationwide shutdown? To impose quarantine on asymptomatic passengers? To dictate provincial health policy?
Most people here have respect for both the virus and the recommendations, there are some idiots yes, but they are very few. When I see people outside they usually keep a bigger distance than 2 meters, and you can tell my people's faces that they are taking this seriously. I don't think it's smart by media to scare people like they do, I think it's smarter to do what our public health agency did which is they told young people to be careful to protected their family and friends who are in risk groups, and people seem to have been listening. Our big problem attitude wise have actually been old people, early on a lot of old people were like "I'm independent, I've experienced more flu's than you, I can handle this etc". However the public health agency have constantly told old people that it's not only about them, and how they are risking other people's lives also if they don't follow the recommendations. Now we see in polls that old people are starting to listen more, maybe it's related to the death tolls among the old too.In Sweden I think we have 3 deaths under the age of 50, and the ones who seem to worry the most are people under 50. Media is constantly posting articles about young people all over the world that die. So I hold media responsible if mental health issues increase a lot for young people, well the media and unemployment.There's a fine line between being overly fixated on deaths and rates but also getting the message out there that nobody should take things lightly. Again, they are probably hoping to shock people into recognizing that this is a big deal. I agree that it's not accurate to fixate on cherry picking deaths of young people worldwide but I also wouldn't want there to be complacency amongst the young just because you are statistically less likely to die than someone who is older. For example, a 0.1% death rate still isn't a good death rate if we are looking at an illness that could affect 50%+ of a total demographic group.
I sent critical comments with my perspective to a big paper here, and asked them to inform people that we have 3 deaths under the age of 50 of a population of over 10 million (obviously all of them are not 0-50). Kudos to them since they posted it, and just stating that what I said was correct, and they will try to lift that perspective more.
I think more important data would be what proportion of people under 50 require hospitalization and ICU assistance. In Canada people under 50 make up 50% of confirmed cases and it seems like people under 50 are in the 20% of hospitalizations range. It is true that one of the primary factors of death is age, but it is also likely true that a good chunk of young patients do need medical help to pull out of this. What happens when there aren't enough hospital beds, oxygen masks, ventilators or health care staff? You get Spain. In Spain the death rate ranges from 0.2%-0.5% under 50. Again, that still isn't a good rate. If 1,000,000 get it you're looking at 3,000 deaths, how many would be prevented with stronger measures?
If people under 50 are worrying the most then wouldn't it stand to reason they would be extra vigilant? If they are the unwitting carriers of this disease that then kills a large portion of the older population and subsequently overloading the health care system then wouldn't it make sense for increased cautiousness on their part? Just because you probably won't die doesn't mean it won't have major butterfly effects elsewhere.
And I mean if you're going to use the Netherlands as a comparable they have one of the worst death rates per 100,000 in Europe. Sweden and the Netherlands are not on good trajectories regarding cases or death rates. Its not just about what's happened or what is happening now - this is what got everyone into this mess. It's about recognizing what will happen in 2 weeks, a month, 3 months from now etc. Let's see what the death rates look like when all is said and done. It won't be pretty, even amongst the young, who probably wouldn't die due to illness under normal circumstances anyway unless it was COVID related. We just got the epidemiological outlook for Ontario yesterday - it doesn't paint a good picture unless we really try to clamp down on this.
I certainly hope that the international community looks at trade agreements so we don't see important goods being stuck at airports or being held "hostage" by other countries while not even being used in some cases due to restrictions.
You know, when all of this is over I really hope there's some real accountability for how this all shook down. And I don't mean accountability in the way people sometimes mean it politically as "I don't agree with the PM's politics so I hope this hurts his chances at the next election" because any fault in the Government's response can be equally thrown at the opposition parties who weren't advocating for anything better.
But, like, we're going to need to know why the reaction to this was so bad. Why everything that should have happened in early February happened in mid-late March. I'm not looking to score points here but the people who are supposed to be looking out for us should have been better prepared. Both federally and provincially. And not in a Bill Gates-esque "We know a pandemic is coming sense" but like, we knew it was here in February. All of those chances shouldn't have been taken.
Differing opinions and some confusion on just who is spreading the Coronavirus: silent spreaders a.k.a. people who are asymptomatic are at greater risk of spreading the virus. At least thats what the science is now showing.If it's true that we have a lot of "silent spreaders" I would say that it's actually a good thing in one sense, because that would indicate that more have gone through it already. What worry me a bit is the quality of tests, because I've heard that in some countries people who have tested positive and then been cured have tested positive again a few weeks later.
Did many get it wrong? And why physical distancing has become ever more imperative.QuoteThe best evidence around the virus that we have is that the virus is not contagious when people are not symptomatic."
But a growing body of research indicates they were wrong. In fact, people don't have to appear ill at all to infect others.
Jeffrey Shaman, a professor of environmental health sciences at Columbia University in New York, says he is frustrated when people deny that asymptomatic spread can happen.
Shaman and other researchers argue that even two months ago, officials like Tam and Hajdu should have been more open to the possibility of asymptomatic transmission, considering by that point there was a flurry of research being undertaken by scientists racing to understand how the virus was spreading so fast and far. Many of those researchers suspected asymptomatic transmission.
His research found that while undocumented cases those with mild or no symptoms who did not have a confirmed diagnosis at the time were only half as infectious as symptomatic ones, they were the source for nearly 80 per cent of documented cases. That's because people who feel fine are the ones out and about, travelling and interacting with more people.
Asked whether it's fair to say these so-called silent spreaders are "super-spreaders," Shaman replied: "Yes."
Dr. Allison McGeer, an infectious disease specialist with Sinai Health System in Toronto, argues while Tam's messaging about asymptomatic spread back in January "might not have been ideal," there's a good chance people would not have been onside with major restrictions to their lives before they could see proof of how serious the problem was. After all, Canada only reported its first case of COVID-19 in late January.
"There is evidence that if officials appear uncertain about things, people lose trust. They get angry. They don't follow guidance. So we put this demand on public health people to have answers when there are no answers. And that's just an impossible situation," she said.
Story:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-silent-spreaders-1.5520006 (https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/covid-19-silent-spreaders-1.5520006)
When it comes to the article's points about him giving money to businesses, those are also a drop in the bucket. But more importantly, giving to those businesses might be the most effective way to get aid to people in need. For example, the article states that he gave $19 million donation to a Mastercard affiliate in 2014 to increase usage of digital financial products by poor adults in Kenya. The article makes no attempt to investigate whether that might be a good thing. It's easy to imagine it is a good thing -- it gives access to cash to poor people to help develop their economy.
The article is trying to slime him, for what reason, I have no idea (probably clickbait), but the notion that he's somehow trying to make money off by donating to a program that helps get financial products to Kenyans is beyond ludicrous. If Bill Gates wanted to make money, there are plenty of vastly better ways he could do it than that.
Coronavirus: How sick will you get?
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-how-sick-will-you-get/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Coronavirus: How sick will you get?
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/01/coronavirus-how-sick-will-you-get/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
Excellent article.
There seems to be no way out with this COVID-19 virus. Its almost as if the virus likes to pick and choose who it will infect.
This stealth virus has all the makings of a cleverly mutated bio engineered product, despite science disputing this claim. Then again, how can we be so certain of that as well?
I have an underlying autoimmune condition for which a I am currently not undertaking any immunosuppressive medications. I still need to be careful though Im more concerned for my mother who is a senior and what contracting this virus could do to her.
We all need to be on the lookout for our families and our own well being.
There seems to be no way out with this COVID-19 virus. Its almost as if the virus likes to pick and choose who it will infect.
This stealth virus has all the makings of a cleverly mutated bio engineered product, despite science disputing this claim. Then again, how can we be so certain of that as well?
Stop with the baseless conspiracy theories. They don't help anyone.
There seems to be no way out with this COVID-19 virus. Its almost as if the virus likes to pick and choose who it will infect.
This stealth virus has all the makings of a cleverly mutated bio engineered product, despite science disputing this claim. Then again, how can we be so certain of that as well?
Stop with the baseless conspiracy theories. They don't help anyone.
My 2nd reminder: anti-vaccine and conspiracy theories regarding COVID-19 have no place here. I'll leave this post up to serve as an example.
These views are garbage even on the best of days but people are DYING here. I don't expect anyone else on these boards to have an issue following this simple directive but I just wanted to repeat it once again.
Why do you get to decide what others think or post?
You probably not mind folks using Dr Tam's word yet She is still touting the absolute BS that masks don't work? Let the reader decide their own opinions. This whole pandemic is an example of opinions and facts changing.
Why do you get to decide what others think or post?
The fact that I'm a mod/admin on a private message board. Seriously it's flabbergasting that some people don't understand this.You probably not mind folks using Dr Tam's word yet She is still touting the absolute BS that masks don't work? Let the reader decide their own opinions. This whole pandemic is an example of opinions and facts changing.
If you don't see the difference between the debate on masks which has very legitimate takes on both sides of the conversation and crap like "this is a biological weapon" then you're beyond speaking to on this.
It's not the first thing you have tried to sanction. You also tried when folks wrote about alternative medicine.
so why don't we allow a thread called "whacky conspiracy theories" and if people want to read about such things they can. The base line is we probably will never know for absolute sure where this thing originated from.
I'm taking a hard stance here on COVID-19 and I won't apologize for it.
Someone died by ingesting a fish tank chemical, I thought you wanted to be factual?It's not the first thing you have tried to sanction. You also tried when folks wrote about alternative medicine.
And will continue to do so, thanks. If you have a problem with that feel free to find another Toronto Maple Leafs forum that allows that sort of discussion.
Until hydroxychloroquine is proven effective by something like the CDC, WHO, or PHAC it won't be discussed here. Someone has DIED because of misinformation regarding that specific treatment already. I'm sorry for missing the original post about it yesterday.
People, the team lets you discuss pretty much anything you want here regarding the Maple Leafs or hockey in general. I'm taking a hard stance here on COVID-19 and I won't apologize for it.
I'm taking a hard stance here on COVID-19 and I won't apologize for it.
And it's appreciated. There's really only two culprits, anyway.
She hasn't said that fyi. Shockingly there is nuance to the subject.There seems to be no way out with this COVID-19 virus. Its almost as if the virus likes to pick and choose who it will infect.
This stealth virus has all the makings of a cleverly mutated bio engineered product, despite science disputing this claim. Then again, how can we be so certain of that as well?
Stop with the baseless conspiracy theories. They don't help anyone.
My 2nd reminder: anti-vaccine and conspiracy theories regarding COVID-19 have no place here. I'll leave this post up to serve as an example.
These views are garbage even on the best of days but people are DYING here. I don't expect anyone else on these boards to have an issue following this simple directive but I just wanted to repeat it once again.
Why do you get to decide what others think or post? You probably not mind folks using Dr Tam's word yet She is still touting the absolute BS that masks don't work? Let the reader decide their own opinions. This whole pandemic is an example of opinions and facts changing.
?s=191/7 There is a lot of discussion on use of face masks. It can help to break the discussion into two main considerations regarding the TYPE of mask & the conditions for safe USE of masks in different circumstances/settings. #COVID19
— Dr. Theresa Tam (@CPHO_Canada) April 2, 2020
You're being disingenuous with how you're presenting that.Someone died by ingesting a fish tank chemical, I thought you wanted to be factual?It's not the first thing you have tried to sanction. You also tried when folks wrote about alternative medicine.
And will continue to do so, thanks. If you have a problem with that feel free to find another Toronto Maple Leafs forum that allows that sort of discussion.
Until hydroxychloroquine is proven effective by something like the CDC, WHO, or PHAC it won't be discussed here. Someone has DIED because of misinformation regarding that specific treatment already. I'm sorry for missing the original post about it yesterday.
People, the team lets you discuss pretty much anything you want here regarding the Maple Leafs or hockey in general. I'm taking a hard stance here on COVID-19 and I won't apologize for it.
I'm sure I speak for a lot of us in saying that I don't want this board to become a murdoch-esque tabloid.so why don't we allow a thread called "whacky conspiracy theories" and if people want to read about such things they can. The base line is we probably will never know for absolute sure where this thing originated from.
No. Just follow simple rules.
She hasn't said that fyi. Shockingly there is nuance to the subject.There seems to be no way out with this COVID-19 virus. Its almost as if the virus likes to pick and choose who it will infect.
This stealth virus has all the makings of a cleverly mutated bio engineered product, despite science disputing this claim. Then again, how can we be so certain of that as well?
Stop with the baseless conspiracy theories. They don't help anyone.
My 2nd reminder: anti-vaccine and conspiracy theories regarding COVID-19 have no place here. I'll leave this post up to serve as an example.
These views are garbage even on the best of days but people are DYING here. I don't expect anyone else on these boards to have an issue following this simple directive but I just wanted to repeat it once again.
Why do you get to decide what others think or post? You probably not mind folks using Dr Tam's word yet She is still touting the absolute BS that masks don't work? Let the reader decide their own opinions. This whole pandemic is an example of opinions and facts changing.?s=191/7 There is a lot of discussion on use of face masks. It can help to break the discussion into two main considerations regarding the TYPE of mask & the conditions for safe USE of masks in different circumstances/settings. #COVID19
— Dr. Theresa Tam (@CPHO_Canada) April 2, 2020
I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.
That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
I think in a free world and society, as per Bates that we have the ability to say what we feel and what is on our minds, hell I started this thread.I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.
Except that it's irrelevant that you're not advocating it for others. That isn't the line that Carleton clearly set. You were asked to stop, and you're still trying to justify it.
There is some positive news to report on this front, though - a few weeks ago, Sunnybrook Hospital - in conjunction with the University of Toronto and MacMaster University, were able to isolate the virus, which allows for more accurate testing and being able to grow the virus in a lab - https://sunnybrook.ca/research/media/item.asp?c=2&i=2069&f=covid-19-isolated-2020&fbclid=IwAR3ZESLvk0ENqqRR4EsPEQlWmWefwvHf9X_J8OZ1QGyhBtMgU-vXAyP-0aMLouis, you are not allowed to post this, as per the thought police.
Because of that research, the University of Saskatchewan was able to develop a prototype vaccine, which actually passed the first step and has moved on to testing on ferrets this week - https://globalnews.ca/news/6762600/coronavirus-saskatoon-vido-covid-19/
We're still a long ways away from the vaccine being made available to the public for consumption, but these are very positive steps.
There is some positive news to report on this front, though - a few weeks ago, Sunnybrook Hospital - in conjunction with the University of Toronto and MacMaster University, were able to isolate the virus, which allows for more accurate testing and being able to grow the virus in a lab - https://sunnybrook.ca/research/media/item.asp?c=2&i=2069&f=covid-19-isolated-2020&fbclid=IwAR3ZESLvk0ENqqRR4EsPEQlWmWefwvHf9X_J8OZ1QGyhBtMgU-vXAyP-0aMLouis, you are not allowed to post this, as per the thought police.
Because of that research, the University of Saskatchewan was able to develop a prototype vaccine, which actually passed the first step and has moved on to testing on ferrets this week - https://globalnews.ca/news/6762600/coronavirus-saskatoon-vido-covid-19/
We're still a long ways away from the vaccine being made available to the public for consumption, but these are very positive steps.
This is backed by science by reputable hospitals. You must know that this is different than saying something based on 0 scientific or credible evidence.There is some positive news to report on this front, though - a few weeks ago, Sunnybrook Hospital - in conjunction with the University of Toronto and MacMaster University, were able to isolate the virus, which allows for more accurate testing and being able to grow the virus in a lab - https://sunnybrook.ca/research/media/item.asp?c=2&i=2069&f=covid-19-isolated-2020&fbclid=IwAR3ZESLvk0ENqqRR4EsPEQlWmWefwvHf9X_J8OZ1QGyhBtMgU-vXAyP-0aMLouis, you are not allowed to post this, as per the thought police.
Because of that research, the University of Saskatchewan was able to develop a prototype vaccine, which actually passed the first step and has moved on to testing on ferrets this week - https://globalnews.ca/news/6762600/coronavirus-saskatoon-vido-covid-19/
We're still a long ways away from the vaccine being made available to the public for consumption, but these are very positive steps.
That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
I have no idea what you're trying to convey here. The previous parts of the thread talking about hydroxychloroquine isn't here so I don't really know what they said. Are you referring to a study on masks or something? I think debating whether a drug works or not is pretty ridiculous for this type of site and is something best left to scientists and health care professionals. Wearing a mask is a different debate because you aren't ingesting a chemical without any trials and has more nuance to it than you're leading on. I'm not going to get mad at people who wear masks but I am going to be annoyed at people who think a cotton mask is the same as a surgical mask/N95 or use it as a pretext to keep going out or that it's some kind of pancea that has 0 trade offs in terms of risk. But again, that's a much different discussion.That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
So if the study Canada is currently part of for the not to mentioned treatment gets proven to work we can then mention it?? But not while they are testing it, just once the results are in?? Gotcha
I have no idea what you're trying to convey here. The previous parts of the thread talking about hydroxychloroquine isn't here so I don't really know what they said. Are you referring to a study on masks or something? I think debating whether a drug works or not is pretty ridiculous for this type of site and is something best left to scientists and health care professionals. Wearing a mask is a different debate because you aren't ingesting a chemical without any trials and has more nuance to it than you're leading on. I'm not going to get mad at people who wear masks but I am going to be annoyed at people who think a cotton mask is the same as a surgical mask/N95 or use it as a pretext to keep going out or that it's some kind of pancea that has 0 trade offs in terms of risk. But again, that's a much different discussion.That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
So if the study Canada is currently part of for the not to mentioned treatment gets proven to work we can then mention it?? But not while they are testing it, just once the results are in?? Gotcha
I think my position is pretty clear and I don't really have anymore time or energy dealing with disingenuous posts or baiting or whatever it is you're trying to do. If you want to get into more detail on a platform with basically no guidelines get on twitter or something.
2. The site staff have the exclusive right and discretion to delete any posts they deem to be in contravention to these rules and guidelines, and subsequently ban repeat offenders, if necessary.
I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.
And I am not propagating conspiracy theories which I personally think of as nonsense.
Nuff said.
Agreed, your right, I am not making any effort to obtain said chemical even though I do have underlying conditions. I am not commenting further on this, I am keeping it to hockey which I seem to remember is a game played on ice.I want to make it crystal clear, I am not advocating anything to anyone, I mentioned that if I could get said chemical, which won't be named then "I" would get it. Nothing to do with anyone else.
And I am not propagating conspiracy theories which I personally think of as nonsense.
Nuff said.
So, here's the problems with that position:
a) Whether or not the drug in question is an effective treatment for COVID-19 is still up in the air. There's some anecdotal evidence, but no clinical trials. It also has some significant and potentially dangerous side effects. You could very well be doing more harm to yourself. It should never be taken without being prescribed by a licensed medical doctor.
b) The drug is question is being viewed as a potential treatment. There is zero evidence from anyone qualified to test for these things that it is at all effective in helping you to prevent getting infected. If you take it without being sick, you're not doing anything to actually protect yourself from the virus.
c) Getting your hands on said drug when you don't need it is selfish. There are a number of people who rely on it to help treat serious medical conditions, like lupus. Also, if it is proven to be an effective treatment for COVID-19, and you're holding on to it when you're not sick, you're preventing it from getting to someone who actually needs it. Getting the drug when you're not sick and don't need it could directly contribute to someone else's death.
DO NOT try to get your hands on medication you don't need. All it does it put yourself and others in danger.
I have no idea what you're trying to convey here. The previous parts of the thread talking about hydroxychloroquine isn't here so I don't really know what they said. Are you referring to a study on masks or something? I think debating whether a drug works or not is pretty ridiculous for this type of site and is something best left to scientists and health care professionals. Wearing a mask is a different debate because you aren't ingesting a chemical without any trials and has more nuance to it than you're leading on. I'm not going to get mad at people who wear masks but I am going to be annoyed at people who think a cotton mask is the same as a surgical mask/N95 or use it as a pretext to keep going out or that it's some kind of pancea that has 0 trade offs in terms of risk. But again, that's a much different discussion.That advice is contradicted by the World Health Organization, the government of Canada and federal public health officials like Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam. On its webpage, the WHO says that "if you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected [COVID-19] infection."My rebuttal is to your part saying she is still spouting mask bs etc. and I think that tweet did it's job in refuting that argument. What was said a week ago is outdated.
"Putting a mask on an asymptomatic person is not beneficial, obviously, if you're not infected," Tam said Monday.
So if the study Canada is currently part of for the not to mentioned treatment gets proven to work we can then mention it?? But not while they are testing it, just once the results are in?? Gotcha
I think my position is pretty clear and I don't really have anymore time or energy dealing with disingenuous posts or baiting or whatever it is you're trying to do. If you want to get into more detail on a platform with basically no guidelines get on twitter or something.
Nothing disingenuous about it. I simply questioned why the need to censor posters just because you don't agree with their posts. I was told the only acceptable posts are those approved by Health Canada or WHO or similar. I don't think they have been exactly factual on this crisis as the mask writings proved. And the treatment we could not discuss is now actual in study by Canada?? But the point of my post was to allow open discussion not echo chamber like this place has been shifting towards.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/malaria-drug-being-studied-on-the-list-of-possible-covid-19-treatments-tam-1.4883377
I was told the only acceptable posts are those approved by Health Canada or WHO or similar.If there is new information by credible epidemiologists who are critical of Health Canada/PHO/WHO response that's fine. I don't think the WHO has done a very good job at this, but that's a different story than "let's discuss the merits of hydroxychloroquine." The type of conversation is different and I'm sure you can understand that difference. You can be critical of Health Canada/Dr. Tam in terms of masks but, again, I literally just posted a nuanced twitter post by her regarding masks. We are allowed to discuss the merits of this, but you have to take in new information into account. You said she still is touting BS on masks and I think the twitter post rebutts that, so I don't understand why you aren't incorporating this new information and moving on. You didn't like her stance before, she clarified and provided a nuanced view on that stance and you're still acting like she didn't provide that. If you want to ignore that entirely then that's fine by me, but why would anyone discuss this any further if you're clinging to beliefs that don't change with new information? Doubling down on ignoring anything that refutes your opinion....hmm...that reminds me of a term we used earlier....
So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.
I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.
So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.
I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.
3) One of my favourite epidemiologists right now is Dr. David Fisman of the University of Toronto.
Beer helps.
Beer helps.
My sleep has not been great either, and the anxiety is doing some awful things to my stomach, but other than that, I'm hanging in there. My partner doesn't live with me yet, and she's immunocompromised as well, so we're keeping physical distance from each other, but it's hard and is really starting to take a toll on our relationship.
On the plus side, I feel like I'm far more productive working from home than I was going to the office. I guess my cat makes a good assistant?
Beer helps.
I went about 4 days without beer last week because I ran out and didn't want to go out until my next grocery store trip. Those were rough days.
So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.
I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.
Beer helps.
I went about 4 days without beer last week because I ran out and didn't want to go out until my next grocery store trip. Those were rough days.
Apparently, Amsterdam Brewery has free delivery available online.
A friend of mine has been hit in the head twice at Leaf games and suffered damage both times. The last one was a Chara slapshot that damaged his right frontal lobe.Beer helps.
I do feel like a beer would help take some stress off, but I'm recovering from a concussion (a headshot in a non-contact hockey league, go figure ???) and the doc has advised not to.
We're holding up okay here. Our work was also deemed "essential" but I convinced the boss that I can do just as much from home as I can from the office so I've been working from home for 2 weeks now.Beer is not just a breakfast drink anymore Old Time Hockey.
It's been a little stressful as I just started this job in November and we are a start up business. Our parent company is keeping us a float right now and I'm hoping that lasts. Who knows though. Thankfully my wife is a principal of a local high school and is fairly secure in her job.
Other than that, I do my best to stay away from the negative news. I try to check in most mornings on the news and then again after dinner. Other than that, I do my best to stay away. It's the only way I can stay sane. That, and beer. But we all seem to have that same vice. Am I the only one that has found themselves considering one at 9am on a Monday?
So how's everyone doing? I'm starting to go a bit stir crazy and starting to feel the effects of social distancing.
I just want to go to the Circle K and buy an f'ing chocolate bar. I know it's still allowed, but I'm obviously avoiding frivolous trips like that.
And miss going to the gym, but it's going to be warm enough to run outside soon.
10 weeks ago, my wife and I welcomed our first baby girl amidst the early rumblings of Covid-19.
Congrats man.
If you've mentioned this before and I've already congratulated you then I rescind this one.
I've been working from home for ten years already, little has changed for me in many areas. Three kids at home is driving my wife nuts though. And miss going to the gym, but it's going to be warm enough to run outside soon.They just outlawed outside exercise in France, no running there. Although you may be able to set up a Marathon course in your backyard.
They just outlawed outside exercise in France, no running there. Although you may be able to set up a Marathon course in your backyard.
Congrats herman...get out your wallet, they're expensive.
Herman, I didn't know about the recent fatherhood, congratulations, as Frank says get out that wallet. My guy is 27 now and still costing me. LOL
Thanks CTB, I have to stop repeating what my wife is telling me. Vive la France!!They just outlawed outside exercise in France, no running there. Although you may be able to set up a Marathon course in your backyard.
Just for the record, I believe this applies to the city of Paris only. And it's a ban during the day:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52202700
Elsewhere in France you're allowed to job/exercise but only within 1km of your home. That's been in place for a little while now.
You have that right Herman, if I could do it all over again, I would learn to say "No" a lot more instead of giving in and saying "Yes" to avoid the inevitable tantrums. No is a great word for kids to learn. Anyway that horse left the barn by about year 3.Congrats herman...get out your wallet, they're expensive.Herman, I didn't know about the recent fatherhood, congratulations, as Frank says get out that wallet. My guy is 27 now and still costing me. LOL
Thanks, guys (and for the heads up)! She's the first grandkid for both our families so she's gonna be spoiled rotten unless we can instill the virtues of asceticism early on.
Social/physical distancing is now going to become a regular term in our vocabulary going forward, isn't it? ::)I really hope that the "handshake" goes the way of the Dodo. I always respected Japanese culture with the little bow of respect. When you think of where a hand goes in the course of a day, scary stuff.. I have to say I have learned how not to touch my face etc. Have a makeshift mask and wear gloves slathered up with the mixture when out.
I really hope that the "handshake" goes the way of the Dodo. I always respected Japanese culture with the little bow of respect. When you think of where a hand goes in the course of a day, scary stuff.. I have to say I have learned how not to touch my face etc. Have a makeshift mask and wear gloves slathered up with the mixture when out.
I really hope that the "handshake" goes the way of the Dodo. I always respected Japanese culture with the little bow of respect. When you think of where a hand goes in the course of a day, scary stuff.. I have to say I have learned how not to touch my face etc. Have a makeshift mask and wear gloves slathered up with the mixture when out.
I've seen a lot of people say this. Quite baffled by it. Not me...if handshakes go, I think life as we/I know it is changed forever.
I hope people (and governments) come to appreciate all the front-line folk more after this (hopefully) passes: nurses, docs, EMTs, grocery store staff, food services, teachers, sanitation workers
Apparently, Amsterdam Brewery has free delivery available online.
We are GHA. But, I will order immediately if they deliver. Carlton X 2.
I said something similar earlier and I agree. We're seeing now the value of these people every day and stretches far beyond what a free market system pegs for them. The economy is taking a nose dive because the average work of undervalued people is being disrupted, not because enough money hasn't been diverted to the already wealthy.
The last 30 years have seen massive amounts of gains in terms of worker productivity in this country but almost all of the benefits have been going to capital interests and not labour. I just don't think that's sustainable for a society that may, in the future, require people to risk their health to work at jobs that don't pay them a living wage.
Also, congrats on the kid.
Spain just announced it was moving towards setting up universal basic income. Imagine if UBI and basic health insurance take care of the first two tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs for everyone.
It seem like the worst is over in Stockholm although we will see a lot more deaths. It also seems that a lot of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies based on preliminary studies. Our authorities claim that our stats of deaths are very accurate, although lagging behind a few days at max. In our stats deaths outside the regular healthcare is also included. On the press conference today our authorities were more calm than they've been in the last couple of weeks.
One positive fact is that we have much fewer deaths than usual in other virus inflicted diseases.
Also it was mentioned yesterday by Trump that we are suffering a lot. I feel sorry for the ones who have lost loved ones, but that statement isn't true and our healthcare although tired and stressed have done a magnificent job. In Stockholm the capacity for ICU patients is currently at 180% of its normal capacity.
Also I have seen a lot of pictures of people in Stockholm sitting in crowded restaurants both in media abroad and in Sweden. However after having been in Stockholm a lot I would say that those are exceptions and not an accurate reflection of the situation here in general.
The capacity is at 180% right now, and still increasing, but it's only running at about 160% right now, and as it goes down which it likely will, Stockholm will be able to help the rest of the country if needed. Well, Sweden's main problem was that it spread in residential homes (25% of Sweden's total deaths have been old people in residential homes in Stockholm alone), a problem which Norway hasn't had, and that's not related to the overall strategy itself, it was related to lack of protective equipment thanks to some countries in EU who refused to let our supplies through, another reason is that Norway tested a lot in residential homes, which we should have been better at. But Sweden will ramp up the testing in an extreme way to about 100.000 tests per week. What's complicated though is that the tests are not always accurate, the issue is say that you are tested at this instance, it may be negative, but in 8 hours you may be positive, because the tests will not be able to spot the virus under a certain level, and then you have to test the same people over and over again. The antibody tests are more accurate, because you can not have developed antibodies if you haven't been sick.It seem like the worst is over in Stockholm although we will see a lot more deaths. It also seems that a lot of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies based on preliminary studies. Our authorities claim that our stats of deaths are very accurate, although lagging behind a few days at max. In our stats deaths outside the regular healthcare is also included. On the press conference today our authorities were more calm than they've been in the last couple of weeks.
One positive fact is that we have much fewer deaths than usual in other virus inflicted diseases.
Also it was mentioned yesterday by Trump that we are suffering a lot. I feel sorry for the ones who have lost loved ones, but that statement isn't true and our healthcare although tired and stressed have done a magnificent job. In Stockholm the capacity for ICU patients is currently at 180% of its normal capacity.
Also I have seen a lot of pictures of people in Stockholm sitting in crowded restaurants both in media abroad and in Sweden. However after having been in Stockholm a lot I would say that those are exceptions and not an accurate reflection of the situation here in general.
How is running at 180% sustainable?
Norway currently has better metrics in literally every single statistic than Sweden right now in fighting this. Norway has fewer cases and has done double the tests. The COVID IFR isn't as bad as the CFR, and that's true also in Sweden, but also 68 deaths per million vs 19 per million in Norway. Norway has higher cases per population but are testing the hell out of their population. I mean there are more patients in serious and critical condition in Sweden than Canada.
I understand you want to be positive about Sweden, but the way it's going you're going to have case studies for years concluding that out of the two, Norway made the right decisions vs. Sweden.
The capacity is at 180% right now, and still increasing, but it's only running at about 160% right now, and as it goes down which it likely will, Stockholm will be able to help the rest of the country if needed. Well, Sweden's main problem was that it spread in residential homes (25% of Sweden's total deaths have been old people in residential homes in Stockholm alone), a problem which Norway hasn't had, and that's not related to the overall strategy itself, it was related to lack of protective equipment thanks to some countries in EU who refused to let our supplies through, another reason is that Norway tested a lot in residential homes, which we should have been better at. But Sweden will ramp up the testing in an extreme way to about 100.000 tests per week. What's complicated though is that the tests are not always accurate, the issue is say that you are tested at this instance, it may be negative, but in 8 hours you may be positive, because the tests will not be able to spot the virus under a certain level, and then you have to test the same people over and over again. The antibody tests are more accurate, because you can not have developed antibodies if you haven't been sick.It seem like the worst is over in Stockholm although we will see a lot more deaths. It also seems that a lot of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies based on preliminary studies. Our authorities claim that our stats of deaths are very accurate, although lagging behind a few days at max. In our stats deaths outside the regular healthcare is also included. On the press conference today our authorities were more calm than they've been in the last couple of weeks.
One positive fact is that we have much fewer deaths than usual in other virus inflicted diseases.
Also it was mentioned yesterday by Trump that we are suffering a lot. I feel sorry for the ones who have lost loved ones, but that statement isn't true and our healthcare although tired and stressed have done a magnificent job. In Stockholm the capacity for ICU patients is currently at 180% of its normal capacity.
Also I have seen a lot of pictures of people in Stockholm sitting in crowded restaurants both in media abroad and in Sweden. However after having been in Stockholm a lot I would say that those are exceptions and not an accurate reflection of the situation here in general.
How is running at 180% sustainable?
Norway currently has better metrics in literally every single statistic than Sweden right now in fighting this. Norway has fewer cases and has done double the tests. The COVID IFR isn't as bad as the CFR, and that's true also in Sweden, but also 68 deaths per million vs 19 per million in Norway. Norway has higher cases per population but are testing the hell out of their population. I mean there are more patients in serious and critical condition in Sweden than Canada.
I understand you want to be positive about Sweden, but the way it's going you're going to have case studies for years concluding that out of the two, Norway made the right decisions vs. Sweden.
Another thing to consider is that Norway will have to be more worried than Sweden when they start to open things up, because history shows that it can get bad quickly once you do that if you don't have a lot of control and do it in a very slow pace. Currently we have 687 deaths, and 6 of them have been under the age of 50, regardless of they have an underlying condition or not. In the regular flu we usually have 15-40 (it vary a lot) deaths in that group per year.
Sweden did pretty much the same thing everyone else did from the beginning, which was to trace all cases, and test everyone who's been in contact with them and have the self isolate, but once it was starting to spread around all over the country. Everyone who has any type of symptoms have been told to stay at home no questions asked, and the reason why is because everyone knows that there will be false negatives, and it's difficult to have a long term solution where you test the same people over and over again, because you know that at a certain level it will show negative, and hours later it would show positive. So then social distancing becomes very important. There are very few indications that we will have to lock up or shut down schools as it stands now since it's the virus is decreasing where it hit us worst. However the parliament passed a new legislation so that the government can make quick decisions if it is needed.The capacity is at 180% right now, and still increasing, but it's only running at about 160% right now, and as it goes down which it likely will, Stockholm will be able to help the rest of the country if needed. Well, Sweden's main problem was that it spread in residential homes (25% of Sweden's total deaths have been old people in residential homes in Stockholm alone), a problem which Norway hasn't had, and that's not related to the overall strategy itself, it was related to lack of protective equipment thanks to some countries in EU who refused to let our supplies through, another reason is that Norway tested a lot in residential homes, which we should have been better at. But Sweden will ramp up the testing in an extreme way to about 100.000 tests per week. What's complicated though is that the tests are not always accurate, the issue is say that you are tested at this instance, it may be negative, but in 8 hours you may be positive, because the tests will not be able to spot the virus under a certain level, and then you have to test the same people over and over again. The antibody tests are more accurate, because you can not have developed antibodies if you haven't been sick.It seem like the worst is over in Stockholm although we will see a lot more deaths. It also seems that a lot of people in Stockholm have developed antibodies based on preliminary studies. Our authorities claim that our stats of deaths are very accurate, although lagging behind a few days at max. In our stats deaths outside the regular healthcare is also included. On the press conference today our authorities were more calm than they've been in the last couple of weeks.
One positive fact is that we have much fewer deaths than usual in other virus inflicted diseases.
Also it was mentioned yesterday by Trump that we are suffering a lot. I feel sorry for the ones who have lost loved ones, but that statement isn't true and our healthcare although tired and stressed have done a magnificent job. In Stockholm the capacity for ICU patients is currently at 180% of its normal capacity.
Also I have seen a lot of pictures of people in Stockholm sitting in crowded restaurants both in media abroad and in Sweden. However after having been in Stockholm a lot I would say that those are exceptions and not an accurate reflection of the situation here in general.
How is running at 180% sustainable?
Norway currently has better metrics in literally every single statistic than Sweden right now in fighting this. Norway has fewer cases and has done double the tests. The COVID IFR isn't as bad as the CFR, and that's true also in Sweden, but also 68 deaths per million vs 19 per million in Norway. Norway has higher cases per population but are testing the hell out of their population. I mean there are more patients in serious and critical condition in Sweden than Canada.
I understand you want to be positive about Sweden, but the way it's going you're going to have case studies for years concluding that out of the two, Norway made the right decisions vs. Sweden.
Another thing to consider is that Norway will have to be more worried than Sweden when they start to open things up, because history shows that it can get bad quickly once you do that if you don't have a lot of control and do it in a very slow pace. Currently we have 687 deaths, and 6 of them have been under the age of 50, regardless of they have an underlying condition or not. In the regular flu we usually have 15-40 (it vary a lot) deaths in that group per year.
There's a few things I could rebut here, but I only want to point out that maybe that is a difference of philosophy, but criticizing one test over another when they have different functions seems odd to me. The PCR test is to detect COVID, afterward you quarantine, and trace contacts. This is the South Korean model which has basically been the best in the world thus far. There are false negatives for sure - I'm not sure of the rate - but it's our best tool to make sure there aren't people out there, especially in the health care & at risk fields and lthc patients etc. Serology tests are important but will only tell you who has already developed anti-bodies to the disease and therefore who already was sick. Both need to be used in tandem.
Also counting deaths at this point and comparing it to flu season is also strange. I know you probably don't mean it this way but you're almost implying that people under 50 are the people worth saving, who cares about the rest of the numbers?
And I mean, I know this has been trumpeted over and over, but this disease is the old Wayne Gretzky quote - skate to where the puck is going. You're making it sound like just because Sweden has weathered it so far means it bodes well going forward. You don't know if they won't be forced to shut at this point, and even then there was always knowledge knowing if your country is in quarantine you have to walk a tightrope when opening back up.
I hope Sweden has made the right decisions, but I have a hard time squaring the circle when you've got countries like Finland, Norway, Australia, South Korea are all trending better and have proven as better models. I'm not saying Canada is doing a great job, we need to do better also, I just find the posts rub off a bit nationalistic in the sense that Sweden's model truly could not be followed by the vast majority of countries (and to an even greater extent, the Netherlands - good lord).
Spain just announced it was moving towards setting up universal basic income. Imagine if UBI and basic health insurance take care of the first two tiers of Maslow's hierarchy of needs for everyone.
Week 5 of working from home tomorrow for us. Hope everyone is holding up and nobody has been directly impacted by the virus.Been working from home since March 16th, there's limitations in what we can do at home but there's workarounds.
At least another 3 weeks of lockdown ahead for us here. I think its been mostly pretty well observed. I feel that after those 3 weeks though people may start agitating for a bit more freedom, particularly if the virus infection and death rates continue to plateau or fall
I agree, I'm quite content at the slower pace of life at the minute. Being purely selfish, this virus sounds like a highly unpleasant one so if I'm able to stay home and avoid getting it and the associated risks to my health, or worse, it's a small price worth paying.Yeah I live in an apartment in midtown Toronto. Lots of people around a lot of the time and I don't want to be using the elevator or shared laundry much. Its also been kind of nutty weather so I'm not super keen on doing much outside yet. Cheers to you and yours! Glad you're keeping sane while keeping safe.
Luckily the weather has been decent so we've been able to spend time in the garden and get out for walks round the village pretty much daily which breaks the monotony of being in the house and working from home. I'd guess for those living in apartments etc it's been much tougher.
I obviously make no claims regarding what this study may find but there's some thought coming out of France that smoking cigarettes may actually help in the fight against the virus and they're going to test nicotine patches on health care workers:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/french-study-suggests-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/french-study-suggests-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus)
I obviously make no claims regarding what this study may find but there's some thought coming out of France that smoking cigarettes may actually help in the fight against the virus and they're going to test nicotine patches on health care workers:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/french-study-suggests-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/22/french-study-suggests-smokers-at-lower-risk-of-getting-coronavirus)
We're really getting into the "leave no stone unturned" phase of things, huh?
Yeah, that said the numbers are interesting.
Yeah, that said the numbers are interesting.
Yup. Would definitely be an unexpected outcome to have a nicotine-based treatment be successful, but, as long as it doesn't cause an uptick in smoking...
Borje had it also!
https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2020/05/01/maple-leafs-great-borje-salming-on-his-fight-with-the-coronavirus-when-you-get-this-you-cant-breathe.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thestar_recommended_for_yo
He said he couldn't breath and though he would die. He is imploring us all to stay inside and not get the Covid.Borje had it also!
https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2020/05/01/maple-leafs-great-borje-salming-on-his-fight-with-the-coronavirus-when-you-get-this-you-cant-breathe.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=thestar_recommended_for_yo
Yeah I remember when it was first reported that he was sick it seemed insane that he wasn't actually tested for it. Glad he's feeling better.
I find in interesting how much I've learned about Sweden during these times. We are communists, most swedes wear chip implants, our tax rate is 60-70%. We don't care about the old. Now Fox News is praising a left-centre government in Sweden, while the left in the US is giving us crap. Is this for real?Nothing makes sense in the U.S anymore, even Trump looks like his chip implant is malfunctioning big time. Maybe the return of Kim Jong has blown his mind.
Georges Laraque battling right now. https://www.thescore.com/news/1972782
As #coronavirus cases spike in Russia, doctors say they need PPEs.
— David Beard (@dabeard) May 4, 2020
2 doctors who shed light on the woeful lack of PPEs have been reported killed "falling" out of windows.
A 3rd has life-threatening injuries after he, too, "fell" out of a window.https://t.co/WI6BNMPbRJ #COVID19
Hello everyone thought I'd check in see how everyone is doing. Hope no-one has been affected by the virus in anyway. All good out here in BC other than going a little stir crazy. Hopefully some hockey in the not too distant future.
Hello everyone thought I'd check in see how everyone is doing. Hope no-one has been affected by the virus in anyway. All good out here in BC other than going a little stir crazy. Hopefully some hockey in the not too distant future.
BC seems to be doing a really good job with things.
I feel like I'm just in a waiting period now. Sort of begrudgingly gotten used to physical/social distancing life. Things aren't going back to normal for a very, very long time still but I'm looking forward to when we can start increasing our social bubble a little.
I also really, really need a hair cut.
Hello everyone thought I'd check in see how everyone is doing. Hope no-one has been affected by the virus in anyway. All good out here in BC other than going a little stir crazy. Hopefully some hockey in the not too distant future.
BC seems to be doing a really good job with things.
I feel like I'm just in a waiting period now. Sort of begrudgingly gotten used to physical/social distancing life. Things aren't going back to normal for a very, very long time still but I'm looking forward to when we can start increasing our social bubble a little.
I also really, really need a hair cut.
A friend of mine owns "Architect Hair Design" on James North...good spot, and you can have a beer...of course, when they get to open back up again.
Mine was driving me nuts so I got out the clippers and took it down to the bare wood.
I will say this, though - as someone who is...folically challenged...if I had a full head of hair, I'd be growing it as long as I could right now, like I was in an 80s hair metal band! How many times will you have this opportunity!?!?
I will say this, though - as someone who is...folically challenged...if I had a full head of hair, I'd be growing it as long as I could right now, like I was in an 80s hair metal band! How many times will you have this opportunity!?!?Folically challenged! I like that. It just sounds better than bald. I haven't been to a barber in thirty years. I'm just a folically challenged old guy with a pony tail.
My fiance and I moved a couple days ago, which was a super interesting experience in the middle of a pandemic.
I will say this, though - as someone who is...folically challenged...if I had a full head of hair, I'd be growing it as long as I could right now, like I was in an 80s hair metal band! How many times will you have this opportunity!?!?It gets hot under the 'fro, you know? I started looking like a homeless Bob Ross [emoji23]
My fiance and I moved a couple days ago, which was a super interesting experience in the middle of a pandemic.
Congrats on the engagement and new home! How are you going to get Internet?
Mine was driving me nuts so I got out the clippers and took it down to the bare wood.
I've thought about it. Not completely off but enough. I'm in hat-mode any time I leave the house because of it so even if it's bad I can just keep that up until a pro can fix it.
In more leagues restarting news, apparently the British government has cleared the EPL to return at the beginning of June.
And in more exciting news of top level soccer, apparently the Faroe Islands soccer league has already restarted.
Does this make sense logistically? Seems a bit early no?
Faroe Islands coped very well. 180 or so cases and not a single death as far as I know. No new cases since about 24th AprilThat 1-5 scale makes absolutely no sense. They're not defining anything adequately.
Englands response has been an embarrassment and all of the 3 devolved nations are handling it much better.
Im normally very sceptical of our executive here in Northern Ireland but they set out their roadmap to lift the lockdown and I think theyve done a decent job with it.
Weve another 3 weeks of the highest level of lockdown stay home already set out then well review it again to see if we can start to move along and release any of it. Theres 5 stages and several strands such as education, retail, social gatherings etc and we could see education move to stage 3 but retail only go to stage 2, for example.
They havent set defined dates against any state which I think makes sense cos the virus wont just go away cos we want to get kids back to school on June 1st
(The stages are on pages 10-11 of this https://www.executiveoffice-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/execoffice/execuitveour-approach-to-decision-making.pdf )
When I am getting frustrated and hoping things open up sooner than later I read the odd story like this and it scares the s__t out of me.
https://theathletic.com/1813973/2020/05/15/i-thought-it-was-the-end-borje-salming-opens-up-about-the-scare-of-his-life/
British Columbia reported 2 new cases yesterday. Ontario announced 390 new cases today.
For anyone curious, Ontario does not have 195 times the population of BC.
The leaders of the countries with the worst coronavirus outbreaks on Earth.
— Maddow Blog (@MaddowBlog) May 20, 2020
Huh. pic.twitter.com/4jJacN6rkr
Have there been anti-lockdown protests in BC?Yes Herman, I live in Vernon and there was a protest on Saturday, there have been protests around the province as well. There are 4 reported cases of Covid in the entire Okanagan valley, it is next to non existent here. People for the most part are practising social distancing, but most are not wearing masks (which pisses me off). I wear masks in public as a sign of respect to others. What we have to realize as things open up is we still have to be vigilant in our approach to limit a huge second wave. The last thing any of us wants is to go into lock down again.
Nik made a good point, about population and incidents. I really think its about population density. Outside of Vancouver and suburbs the rest of the province has smaller cities of around 40K, where in Ontario I would think that 90% of the population live in the Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe (and Ottawa).
Ontario's daily number of new #COVID19 cases continues to trend upward. The 5-day rolling average bottomed out at 328 on May 12. It's since risen steadily to 410. pic.twitter.com/OE3I3njcSd
— Mike Crawley (@CBCQueensPark) May 21, 2020
Ontario wasn't ready for its reopening.
Ontario wasn't ready for its reopening.
Totally see things rolling back and shutting down again.
Ontario wasn't ready for its reopening.
Totally see things rolling back and shutting down again.
441 new reported cases today. That's the highest number in 2 weeks.
As long as the hospitals don't get swamped with new admissions I think they will just ride it out.Yes I believe that they will try not to re-introduce lockdown again. We saw in NYC that the Javits Center that none or hardly any of those beds were used in Wave 1, as well as the Navy medical ship being absent of cases.
Ontario wasn't ready for its reopening.
Totally see things rolling back and shutting down again.
441 new reported cases today. That's the highest number in 2 weeks.
And that's with doing only 11,000 tests.
And I'm sorry, the uptick in cases has nothing to do with the retail stores opening Tuesday. Whether or not Ontario was ready is another discussion, but cases going up by 75 people isn't because stores opened 3 days ago.
And I'm sorry, the uptick in cases has nothing to do with the retail stores opening Tuesday. Whether or not Ontario was ready is another discussion, but cases going up by 75 people isn't because stores opened 3 days ago.
That's true - we won't have those numbers for a couple weeks. However, Home Depot, Lowe's, Canadian Tire, etc. opened for shoppers right around two weeks ago, and the people testing positive now would have been infected right around then. Could be correlation without causation, but, it's not a good look.
Yesterday's tests aren't today's results.
I live in the Elgin\St Thomas region with a population just short of 100,000. We currently have 2 active cases of Covid-19, one in the county and one in the city. There has not been an admission to the hospital since April 28th. We have only had 33 cases total and 4 deaths. Closing things down again will be a tough pill to swallow.
All stores mentioned have never been closed in BC or the Interior to be specific, yet cases remain very low, perhaps this is because we never had a high curve to begin with.And I'm sorry, the uptick in cases has nothing to do with the retail stores opening Tuesday. Whether or not Ontario was ready is another discussion, but cases going up by 75 people isn't because stores opened 3 days ago.
That's true - we won't have those numbers for a couple weeks. However, Home Depot, Lowe's, Canadian Tire, etc. opened for shoppers right around two weeks ago, and the people testing positive now would have been infected right around then. Could be correlation without causation, but, it's not a good look.
I was doing rudimentary digging and 12million people live in Southern ON alone. If we couldn't stamp it out early and test, trace, isolate quickly then it makes sense that it could and would get quickly out of hand due to exponential growth. You can deal with it with density but you have to clamp down fast and hard like SK but we are a far cry from them.Have there been anti-lockdown protests in BC?Yes Herman, I live in Vernon and there was a protest on Saturday, there have been protests around the province as well. There are 4 reported cases of Covid in the entire Okanagan valley, it is next to non existent here. People for the most part are practising social distancing, but most are not wearing masks (which pisses me off). I wear masks in public as a sign of respect to others. What we have to realize as things open up is we still have to be vigilant in our approach to limit a huge second wave. The last thing any of us wants is to go into lock down again.
They opened bars & restaurants yesterday, was a pleasure to have a pint out for a change. The resto had half the tables it normally does and I thought did a very good job of social distancing.
Nik made a good point, about population and incidents. I really think its about population density. Outside of Vancouver and suburbs the rest of the province has smaller cities of around 40K, where in Ontario I would think that 90% of the population live in the Toronto and the Golden Horseshoe (and Ottawa).
Not sure how much non-local attention this received, but there's a retirement home here in Hamilton that got hit hard by Covid. All 63 residents tested positive, as well as 20 staff members. They had to evacuate the entire building this past Friday. And then as if this story couldn't get any worse one resident was actually left and forgotten about in the building until the following night.What the hell is going on? How does the province not have a handle on this by now?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/rosslyn-retirement-authority-inection-neglect-1.5576560
There are epis calling for rolling lockdown. I.e. if Kingston for example sees no cases maybe it shouldn't be locked down? Although does that stop Toronto crazies from driving to Kingston and infecting people?
I live in the Elgin\St Thomas region with a population just short of 100,000. We currently have 2 active cases of Covid-19, one in the county and one in the city. There has not been an admission to the hospital since April 28th. We have only had 33 cases total and 4 deaths. Closing things down again will be a tough pill to swallow.
I feel like things would have to get REALLY bad for the government to roll back into a lock down. Or they would try to roll back in only the areas that are seeing an outbreak again. This will of course impact how soon we enter into stage 2 of the re-opening though.
Public Health's deliverable is the non-occurance of events!
People should keep in mind that part of the reasons why smaller towns/cities haven't been affected as badly is because there's been such a concerted effort to reduce even in-province travel. The more relaxed things get, the more likely people are to go to their cottages and such, the more likely things will spread outside of the problem areas.
As a lot of people smarter than me have said, if strict containment measures work then you'll get people questioning if they were necessary because they won't see the damage that was avoided.
I think cases in Washington were enough for BC Public Health to act swiftly to nip in the bud. Exponential growth shows once it gets out of hand it gets out of hand quickly. Now we have an R0 of 1.2 in Ontario so things aren't getting any better and our CMOH refuses to acknowledge increased R0 and instead said "Let's wait to see if this is a blip." How much time do we have to wait and see when epis are showing that we are no longer suppressing the virus as we were 2 weeks ago?All stores mentioned have never been closed in BC or the Interior to be specific, yet cases remain very low, perhaps this is because we never had a high curve to begin with.And I'm sorry, the uptick in cases has nothing to do with the retail stores opening Tuesday. Whether or not Ontario was ready is another discussion, but cases going up by 75 people isn't because stores opened 3 days ago.
That's true - we won't have those numbers for a couple weeks. However, Home Depot, Lowe's, Canadian Tire, etc. opened for shoppers right around two weeks ago, and the people testing positive now would have been infected right around then. Could be correlation without causation, but, it's not a good look.
Although does that stop Toronto crazies from driving to Kingston and infecting people?
This is bad...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/8f33accae8ce74808c096b964463222c.jpg)Can't fix stupid.
Its Ok, they all have enough disinfectants to drink when they get home; extra Bleach, Drano, etc. Stupid is as stupid does.This is bad...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/8f33accae8ce74808c096b964463222c.jpg)Can't fix stupid.
This is bad...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200523/8f33accae8ce74808c096b964463222c.jpg)
Can't argue with any of that.
I'm all for calling these people idiots, because they are, but I think this highlights a problem we're seeing in a lot of places. You can't partially open stuff without enforcement. You can't say "Beaches are open but only at 33% of regular capacity" without figuring out who gets to go and who doesn't. Because otherwise everyone is going to think they get to go to the beach that day.
And people can blame Toronto all they want but a lack of enforcement of guidelines has been plaguing the provincial response since the beginning.
the prime minister said on Sunday that Cummings had acted responsibly, legally and with integrity.
RIP genuine UK Civil Service tweet, deleted but not forgotten. pic.twitter.com/p2AyLm5YOR
— James Felton (@JimMFelton) May 24, 2020