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Other Hockey News & Views => NHL Transactions => Topic started by: herman on July 01, 2019, 02:46:39 PM

Title: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 02:46:39 PM
OFFERSHEET
Itís low.

Montreal to Aho. 5 yrs 42.25M (8.45AAV)

update:
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 02:47:29 PM
Really time wasting. If Aho signs it the Canes just thank them for doing their work.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 02:47:57 PM
OFFERSHEET
Itís low.

Pretty sure Carolina matches easily
Title: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2019, 02:48:18 PM
Ooohh offer sheet from MTL to Aho!
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 02:48:26 PM

Easy match, but apparently it has a ton of signing bonuses. Is Carolina that cheap?
Title: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 02:48:31 PM
Really time wasting. If Aho signs it the Canes just thank them for doing their work.

He has signed it. Otherwise, thereís be no announcement.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2019, 02:49:28 PM
Easy match, good value contract.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 02:49:40 PM
Really time wasting. If Aho signs it the Canes just thank them for doing their work.
That's low. Depends on signing bonuses and things. Could be difficult for the Canes to match.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
Carolina should wait the full 7 days so Habs can't do anything else.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 02:49:53 PM
Can we shoot over a higher one and trade off Marner?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 02:51:37 PM

That's a lot of money. Can Carolina do it?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2019, 02:51:54 PM
Easy match, actually a decent value.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 02:53:04 PM
Nearly 50% in the first ish year and thatís actually a nice flex from Bergevin. Couldíve pinched it higher.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 02:53:13 PM
Can we shoot over a higher one and trade off Marner?

Umm...no
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 02:53:32 PM
Carolina should have just offered him $8.5mil from the start and they could have avoided this signing bonus mess probably.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 02:54:11 PM
Easy match, good value contract.
Not for the Canes. 21.8 mill in first year. Canes only made that in gate revenues. Sure they'll match it tho.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
Carolina should have just offered him $8.5mil from the start and they could have avoided this signing bonus mess probably.
Yup. This kid is real good
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 02:55:34 PM
So in regards to comparables where is the case for Marner at $11.5 or above?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Deebo on July 01, 2019, 02:56:32 PM
So in regards to comparables where is the case for Marner at $11.5 or above?

He seems to think his comparable is Matthews.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 02:57:46 PM
So in regards to comparables where is the case for Marner at $11.5 or above?

He seems to think his comparable is Matthews.

Point and Aho are higher value than Marner in my opinion.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 02:58:24 PM
So in regards to comparables where is the case for Marner at $11.5 or above?

He seems to think his comparable is Matthews.

Someone else has to agree with him.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: lamajama on July 01, 2019, 02:59:12 PM
THIS is what weíve been waiting for? Lol.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 02:59:45 PM
Big difference between 1,2,3 an 1,1,1,1. Marner can have 11.5 but for 8 years.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 03:00:43 PM
Meier and Ahoís deal really depresses Paul.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2019, 03:00:56 PM
Aho is #1 CENTER, not a winger, if we want to do comparable this brings down all the grade A RFA projected values. Really low isnít it?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:01:21 PM
THIS is what weíve been waiting for? Lol.
Didn't go big enough. Canes will match. Thats what the panel believes.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: lamajama on July 01, 2019, 03:01:50 PM
And now Carolina needs to wait 7 days to hamstring the Habs as much as possible
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:03:10 PM
Aho is #1 CENTER, not a winger, if we want to do comparable this brings down all the grade A RFA projected values. Really low isnít it?
Agree. It is low for a really good player.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 03:03:58 PM
Hopefully someone does a comparable for Marner.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:05:19 PM
And now Carolina needs to wait 7 days to hamstring the Habs as much as possible
Absolutely.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2019, 03:06:36 PM
I would love this contract for Marner.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 03:09:09 PM

Wonder if this puts some pressure on Tampa knowing Montreal might circle back to Point when/if Carolina matches.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:12:00 PM
I would love this contract for Marner.
No way Marner signs this offer sheet. Dont see one for him. I say he signs this week when no sheet comes.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 03:12:30 PM
?s=19
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:14:10 PM

Wonder if this puts some pressure on Tampa knowing Montreal might circle back to Point when/if Carolina matches.
Montrťal will really have to step it up for Point if they don't want it matched.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 03:20:11 PM
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:23:09 PM
Lol. Dubas would love this lol.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: KW Sluggo on July 01, 2019, 03:26:32 PM
Easy match, actually a decent value.

Easy match in terms of overall quantum, not so easy to cover the front loaded aspect of the offer: the first year bonus is $11.3M and the second year bonus is $9.87M plus an $700K annual salary-- that's about $22M over the next two years.

And of course if Carolina matches, Montreal will still have all that money and more plus cap space to offer sheet Marner.

If you like Marner as a Leaf, you better hope Montreal gets Aho one way or the other.

Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Hobbes on July 01, 2019, 03:26:49 PM
I get the sense from watching Waddell's presser that the number isn't so bad but the term is disappointing (loosely that's what he said). I suspect the 'Canes were offering similar money but only on a 8 year deal. I think perhaps this is pointing to RFA wanting to avoid selling UFA years and trying to hit their "prime" contract as young as they can.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2019, 03:28:03 PM
Was Aho having that much trouble getting a decent offer from Carolina?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:30:19 PM
Easy match, actually a decent value.

Easy match in terms of overall quantum, not so easy to cover the front loaded aspect of the offer: the first year bonus is $11.3M and the second year bonus is $9.87M plus an $700K annual salary-- that's about $22M over the next two years.

And of course if Carolina matches, Montreal will still have all that money and more plus cap space to offer sheet Marner.

If you like Marner as a Leaf, you better hope Montreal gets Aho one way or the other.


Its almost 23 million in 1 year.  1st paid 5 days after registering it and next due July 1.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 03:30:39 PM
Was Aho having that much trouble getting a decent offer from Carolina?

LeBrun said that Carolina was offering $7.5mil x 8 years.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:32:02 PM
Was Aho having that much trouble getting a decent offer from Carolina?

LeBrun said that Carolina was offering $7.5mil x 8 years.
So that would be yes lol.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2019, 03:35:12 PM
Easy match, actually a decent value.

Easy match in terms of overall quantum, not so easy to cover the front loaded aspect of the offer: the first year bonus is $11.3M and the second year bonus is $9.87M plus an $700K annual salary-- that's about $22M over the next two years.

And of course if Carolina matches, Montreal will still have all that money and more plus cap space to offer sheet Marner.

If you like Marner as a Leaf, you better hope Montreal gets Aho one way or the other.
So because they OS Aho and they dont get it they immediately OS Marner at a rate we can't absorb? Lol right.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:36:58 PM
Exactly. Montrťal isn't OSing anyone else. They are doing this for show that's it.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 03:38:28 PM
It is highly doubtful you get an RFA with a reasonable contract offer no matter how you structure it.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2019, 03:46:37 PM
If you were a conspiracy theorist, you might think that Bergevin is doing a bunch of teams a big favour that he may have been encouraged to do.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:53:01 PM
If you were a conspiracy theorist, you might think that Bergevin is doing a bunch of teams a big favour that he may have been encouraged to do.
Thoughts that make you go hmmmmmm. He certainly didnt do tge RFA's any favours except gettibg Aho to UFA status in 5 years.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2019, 03:58:35 PM
Everyone is talking about the bonus money, just cause Carolina is cheap doesn't mean they can't afford it. Owner is a billionaire, they'd be stupid to lose a guy like Aho for that crappy return.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 04:08:51 PM
Everyone is talking about the bonus money, just cause Carolina is cheap doesn't mean they can't afford it. Owner is a billionaire, they'd be stupid to lose a guy like Aho for that crappy return.
No but that's where the Canes were vulnerable. Habs didnt go big enough and they will match easy. I love this offer sheet. It sets the market somewhat.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 04:15:02 PM

This guy is fun
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 04:21:40 PM
?s=19
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Bullfrog on July 01, 2019, 04:22:01 PM
And now Carolina needs to wait 7 days to hamstring the Habs as much as possible
Waddell sounds pissed. Sounds like that's his plan.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 04:26:08 PM
And now Carolina needs to wait 7 days to hamstring the Habs as much as possible
Waddell sounds pissed. Sounds like that's his plan.
I would make them wait.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2019, 05:01:47 PM
Have to throw a big thank you to Bergevin here. Helps throw cold water on Darren Dreger Ferris's plans.  Dreger has been quite sullen all day on tv.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Peter D. on July 01, 2019, 05:03:53 PM
Good on Montreal and Aho on actually using a tool so few teams/GMs are unwilling to use.

Easy match for Carolina.  This is a great value deal for them.  But if they are too stupid and/or cheap to match it, then a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Aho is an absolute steal.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 05:07:50 PM
Have to throw a big thank you to Bergevin here. Helps throw cold water on Darren Dreger Ferris's plans.  Dreger has been quite sullen all day on tv.
For sure. This is a win for the GM's. The kid puts up a point per game, scored 30 goals without any wingers. He's also a centre, kills penalties had 4 shorties and 7 gwg last year. The kid is a star.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 05:09:50 PM
Good on Montreal and Aho on actually using a tool so few teams/GMs are unwilling to use.

Easy match for Carolina.  This is a great value deal for them.  But if they are too stupid and/or cheap to match it, then a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for Aho is an absolute steal.
They're matching. This deal just let's Aho get to UFA quicker. On their Twitter account they have a poll. Will the Canes match? And the choices are...YES and OUI.....lol
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 05:14:19 PM
?s=19

This is actually pretty funny haha.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 05:20:51 PM
?s=19

This is actually pretty funny haha.
Yup...the choices are YES and OUI lol.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2019, 12:03:22 PM

Do Point next!
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 12:08:29 PM

Do Point next!
Depends on when they file it tho. They can still wait the 7 days lol. I think the Canes might do it fast and hope they OS someone else. Maybe they talk to Bergeron and see what his plan is lol.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: lamajama on July 02, 2019, 12:26:33 PM
Anyone with half a brain would realize that's a very matchable offer sheet but for ***'s sake Carolina stretch it out
and hamstring the Habs....why make it easier?

As Guilt Trip said, don't file it for 7 days.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 12:34:27 PM
Anyone with half a brain would realize that's a very matchable offer sheet but for ***'s sake Carolina stretch it out
and hamstring the Habs....why make it easier?

As Guilt Trip said, don't file it for 7 days.
All that offer sheet was, was a show. There was no way possible that the Canes wouldn't match. Like Button says and what we all know, you have to massively overpay to get a guy with an offer sheet.
I'd be surprised if Montreal does it again, at least one with a chance of succeeding.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2019, 01:06:52 PM

"Wow what an absolute steal of a contract, I can't believe we never thought to offer it to him"
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 01:10:27 PM

"Wow what an absolute steal of a contract, I can't believe we never thought to offer it to him"
Haha, too funny. So who thinks there'll be another offer sheet? Maybe Bergeron will send one for Laine or will he keep it in the East?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zee on July 02, 2019, 10:19:09 PM
Why match in one day? I would have taken the entire 7 days so the Habs are literally waiting around
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 10:55:55 PM
Why match in one day? I would have taken the entire 7 days so the Habs are literally waiting around
They said they'll match but according to Bobby Mc, it still has to be filed with the NHL. I havent heard its been filed yet.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 03, 2019, 05:53:08 AM
This was nothing but a show for the fans. It was Bergevin's way of saying "Look! We're trying to do something big to make the team better"
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Peter D. on July 04, 2019, 11:12:22 AM
This was nothing but a show for the fans. It was Bergevin's way of saying "Look! We're trying to do something big to make the team better"

Is there a down side to this?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2019, 11:16:30 AM
This was nothing but a show for the fans. It was Bergevin's way of saying "Look! We're trying to do something big to make the team better"

Is there a down side to this?

If I were a fan of the Canadiens I wouldn't be thrilled that my GM was effectively wasting everyone's time with this vs. doing things that would improve the team.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 04, 2019, 11:18:46 AM
This was nothing but a show for the fans. It was Bergevin's way of saying "Look! We're trying to do something big to make the team better"

Is there a down side to this?
Public embarrassment and bad PR?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: bustaheims on July 04, 2019, 11:37:29 AM
This was nothing but a show for the fans. It was Bergevin's way of saying "Look! We're trying to do something big to make the team better"

Is there a down side to this?

It does tie their hands a little until the Canes officially match. If they had another offer sheet target in mind, they can't do anything about it until the Aho offer sheet is officially resolved.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Peter D. on July 04, 2019, 12:23:59 PM
It does tie their hands a little until the Canes officially match. If they had another offer sheet target in mind, they can't do anything about it until the Aho offer sheet is officially resolved.

That's understood.  But it's not like these RFAs are re-signing at quick pace.

Beyond that, I don't see what the big deal is.  Bergevin used a tactic available to teams.  He got a very good young player to sign an offer sheet with his team.  Maybe it didn't force Carolina's hand enough by not making it a ridiculous amount (ie. $10+ million).  But if anything, Aho's the one who is leaving money on the table and Waddell's work was done for him.  And it'd have only cost Montreal a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?  I actually applaud Bergevin for offer sheeting Aho.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 04, 2019, 12:29:43 PM
It does tie their hands a little until the Canes officially match. If they had another offer sheet target in mind, they can't do anything about it until the Aho offer sheet is officially resolved.

That's understood.  But it's not like these RFAs are re-signing at quick pace.

Beyond that, I don't see what the big deal is.  Bergevin used a tactic available to teams.  He got a very good young player to sign an offer sheet with his team.  Maybe it didn't force Carolina's hand enough by not making it a ridiculous amount (ie. $10+ million).  But if anything, Aho's the one who is leaving money on the table and Waddell's work was done for him.  And it'd have only cost Montreal a 1st, 2nd and 3rd?  I actually applaud Bergevin for offer sheeting Aho.

I don't know that I'd applaud him for doing it. I mean , I can go into the jewelery store and offer them $500 for the $1000 ring knowing full well that they won't accept it but at least I can tell my wife I tried to buy her a ring.

I don't see the point in offer sheeting unless you plan on really taking a run at a guy. This wasn't a serious attempt at signing Aho. The only confusing part is why Aho signed it.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 04, 2019, 12:33:25 PM
But if anything, Aho's the one who is leaving money on the table and Waddell's work was done for him.

But yeah, that's the thing, all it did was help Carolina. A rival NHL team.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Peter D. on July 04, 2019, 12:34:12 PM
I don't know that I'd applaud him for doing it. I mean , I can go into the jewelery store and offer them $500 for the $1000 ring knowing full well that they won't accept it but at least I can tell my wife I tried to buy her a ring.

I suppose.  But you'd look like a genius if it actually came to be, wouldn't you?

I don't see the point in offer sheeting unless you plan on really taking a run at a guy. This wasn't a serious attempt at signing Aho. The only confusing part is why Aho signed it.

That's essentially my point.  It's not Bergevin's fault he got a player to sign for less than what he could have likely gotten.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 04, 2019, 12:37:01 PM
I don't know that I'd applaud him for doing it. I mean , I can go into the jewelery store and offer them $500 for the $1000 ring knowing full well that they won't accept it but at least I can tell my wife I tried to buy her a ring.

I suppose.  But you'd look like a genius if it actually came to be, wouldn't you?

I suppose she'd be happy.

I don't see the point in offer sheeting unless you plan on really taking a run at a guy. This wasn't a serious attempt at signing Aho. The only confusing part is why Aho signed it.

That's essentially my point.  It's not Bergevin's fault he got a player to sign for less than what he could have likely gotten.
[/quote]

Like Nik said though, why is he wasting time attempting to secure a player that he has no shot at getting. Not at the amount he signed him to anyways.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: herman on July 04, 2019, 12:38:17 PM
We are laughing at Bergevin... but how many NHL GMs have been patting him on the back all week and sending him potted plants?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 12:38:57 PM
We are laughing at Bergevin... but how many NHL GMs have been patting him on the back all week and sending him potted plants?
Haha. For sure.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 04, 2019, 12:39:27 PM
We are laughing at Bergevin... but how many NHL GMs have been patting him on the back all week and sending him potted plants?

You'd hope Dubas at least sent him a card.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Peter D. on July 04, 2019, 12:39:37 PM
Like Nik said though, why is he wasting time attempting to secure a player that he has no shot at getting. Not at the amount he signed him to anyways.

Again, from my perspective, this onus falls completely on Aho.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Peter D. on July 04, 2019, 12:40:58 PM
We are laughing at Bergevin... but how many NHL GMs have been patting him on the back all week and sending him potted plants?

Are they Kawhactuses?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Like Nik said though, why is he wasting time attempting to secure a player that he has no shot at getting. Not at the amount he signed him to anyways.

Again, from my perspective, this onus falls completely on Aho.
But Aho got what he wanted here. If not, he wouldn't have signed it. They essentially forced Waddell to come up to 8.5
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: bustaheims on July 04, 2019, 12:47:16 PM
Like Nik said though, why is he wasting time attempting to secure a player that he has no shot at getting. Not at the amount he signed him to anyways.

Again, from my perspective, this onus falls completely on Aho.

I'm not sure I agree. Aho's only goal is to get a contract that he feels pays him at a rate commensurate with his performance. He succeeded in that. Bergevin, on the other hand, has the goal of trying to put himself into the best position to acquire the player he's signing to an offer sheet. He did not succeed there. In fact, it wasn't even close. I don't blame him for trying, but he definitely did not push things as far as he could. He purposely structure the contract so it fell in the threshold where the team would only give up one 1st, a 2nd, and a 3rd round pick, hoping that the lump sum payments would be enough to force the Canes' hands. He should have known that, at that level of compensation, they'd absolutely find a way to make it work. Had he offered a little more - say, an AAV of $9M, with the same frontloaded structure, getting a second 1st round pick in addition to the extra cash layout might have been enough to give them pause. The fact that Carolina responded so quickly makes it pretty clear that Bergevin's move was not nearly strong enough.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Deebo on July 04, 2019, 12:59:09 PM
I don't know that I'd applaud him for doing it. I mean , I can go into the jewelery store and offer them $500 for the $1000 ring knowing full well that they won't accept it but at least I can tell my wife I tried to buy her a ring.

I suppose.  But you'd look like a genius if it actually came to be, wouldn't you?

I don't see the point in offer sheeting unless you plan on really taking a run at a guy. This wasn't a serious attempt at signing Aho. The only confusing part is why Aho signed it.

That's essentially my point.  It's not Bergevin's fault he got a player to sign for less than what he could have likely gotten.

It's Bergevin's fault for thinking it would actually get him the player, and if he didn't think it would, then there was no point to it and all he did was help out another GM get a deal done.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Bullfrog on July 04, 2019, 01:10:38 PM
I'm with Peter on this one. I like the move that Montreal made in an attempt to sign a free agent. Since Aho signed, he was obviously happy with the deal and clearly, it was a better deal than what Carolina was offering.

Though I enjoy the humour used by Carolina, I actually find Waddell's smugness irritating. One hand, you can say that Mtl's offer wasn't strong enough if Car matches automatically; on the other, you can question why Car wasn't offering a better contract to Aho. Perhaps they were just waiting him out and this was Aho's way of expediting the matter.

The curious part is why Mtl didn't bump it up to the next level ($8.6M), requiring compensation of two 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. Carolina probably still matches, but at least Mtl would be offering higher value in the "trade".
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2019, 01:11:47 PM
I suppose.  But you'd look like a genius if it actually came to be, wouldn't you?

Would you? Or would you look lucky?

It's kind of like buying a lottery ticket. Sure there's no catastrophic downside but the upside isn't being hailed as a genius and in the far, far, far likelier event of it failing...well, there's a reason the lottery is called a tax on the foolish.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2019, 01:15:41 PM
Though I enjoy the humour used by Carolina, I actually find Waddell's smugness irritating. One hand, you can say that Mtl's offer wasn't strong enough if Car matches automatically; on the other, you can question why Car wasn't offering a better contract to Aho. Perhaps they were just waiting him out and this was Aho's way of expediting the matter.

Well, yeah. I mean, if someone signed Marner to a 5 year/10.45 million offer sheet the Leafs would probably match. Does that mean they're dummies for not just offering it in the first place? I guess there's something to be said for avoiding the kerfuffle but given the historical nature of the RFA market and the reality of having the ability to match in your back pocket, is it really a bad decision to try and negotiate a player down from what he wants?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: herman on July 04, 2019, 01:20:19 PM
Every side should push for what they can get. That being said, if Marner doesn't get the 13M he is due, he'll be receiving overtures from the KHL for his talents and services around September 14th, according to Darren Dreger.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 02:07:54 PM
Every side should push for what they can get. That being said, if Marner doesn't get the 13M he is due, he'll be receiving overtures from the KHL for his talents and services around September 14th, according to Darren Dreger.
lol
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zee on July 05, 2019, 03:08:22 PM
Heard that Friedman said Bergevin tried to offer sheet Point but was turned down.  I assume he tried Point before Aho, but I'm not sure on that.   Is Bergevin planning to go down the entire list of RFAs until he hits one?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 05, 2019, 04:55:35 PM
Heard that Friedman said Bergevin tried to offer sheet Point but was turned down.  I assume he tried Point before Aho, but I'm not sure on that.   Is Bergevin planning to go down the entire list of RFAs until he hits one?
Well Berg probably offered him 9 mill for 7 years lol. Does anyone think Marner would sign an offer sheet with Montreal?
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zee on July 05, 2019, 06:13:34 PM
Heard that Friedman said Bergevin tried to offer sheet Point but was turned down.  I assume he tried Point before Aho, but I'm not sure on that.   Is Bergevin planning to go down the entire list of RFAs until he hits one?
Well Berg probably offered him 9 mill for 7 years lol. Does anyone think Marner would sign an offer sheet with Montreal?
Maybe it's a ridiculous offer like $14M, something outrageous like that where probably nobody would turn down.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 05, 2019, 07:01:58 PM
Heard that Friedman said Bergevin tried to offer sheet Point but was turned down.  I assume he tried Point before Aho, but I'm not sure on that.   Is Bergevin planning to go down the entire list of RFAs until he hits one?
Well Berg probably offered him 9 mill for 7 years lol. Does anyone think Marner would sign an offer sheet with Montreal?
Maybe it's a ridiculous offer like $14M, something outrageous like that where probably nobody would turn down.
And hell froze over. Dont see anyine paying him 1.5 mill more then McDavid. I also still dont think he signs it until he talks to the Leafs first. JT took 2 mill less to play with Marner and come home. Got to think it's worth something to Marner as well.
Title: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zee on July 07, 2019, 01:37:32 PM
Looks like Canes just officially matched the offer sheet today. Bergevin free to fire up another lame attempt now. $8.5M for Patrik Laine come on down!

?s=21
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: herman on July 07, 2019, 02:13:57 PM
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 07, 2019, 02:33:01 PM
So Aho says basically that he was manipulating the situation. Maybe, but if so he took a risk -- if his hope to stay in CAR really meant so much to him.

Anyway, I know it's fun to tweak Bergevin but I think he took a pretty good gamble. People say that at the sweet spot level he was offering The Hurricanes absolutely had to match. We don't know that. He tried to thread the needle and it didn't work.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 07, 2019, 02:37:43 PM
I think Carolina's response is pretty solid proof positive that this was not a good attempt to "thread a needle" when within minutes of the offer sheet their social media guy has license to joke around saying they're matching.

Honestly, if the Canes didn't match whether because they couldn't afford the initial outlay for the signing bonus or because they were willing, either for the compensation or belief that Aho wasn't worth this deal, to lose their best player a year after they finally breathed a little bit of life into their fanbase then they may as well have announced they weren't matching just after they announced they were folding the team.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 07, 2019, 02:57:23 PM
I think Carolina's response is pretty solid proof positive that this was not a good attempt to "thread a needle" when within minutes of the offer sheet their social media guy has license to joke around saying they're matching.

Honestly, if the Canes didn't match whether because they couldn't afford the initial outlay for the signing bonus or because they were willing, either for the compensation or belief that Aho wasn't worth this deal, to lose their best player a year after they finally breathed a little bit of life into their fanbase then they may as well have announced they weren't matching just after they announced they were folding the team.
Have to agree fully with Nik on this one. Lame attempt.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 07, 2019, 05:38:30 PM
I think Carolina's response is pretty solid proof positive that this was not a good attempt to "thread a needle" when within minutes of the offer sheet their social media guy has license to joke around saying they're matching.

Honestly, if the Canes didn't match whether because they couldn't afford the initial outlay for the signing bonus or because they were willing, either for the compensation or belief that Aho wasn't worth this deal, to lose their best player a year after they finally breathed a little bit of life into their fanbase then they may as well have announced they weren't matching just after they announced they were folding the team.

Again, before the fact nobody knew for sure what their reaction would be. That they came right out and matched doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking a shot at it. Seems to me the signing bonus leverage was potentially high enough to make it worth a try. In the end, all it cost Bergevin was some Twitter snark and 7 days of waiting.  During which nothing happened on the OS front, as things turned out.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 07, 2019, 06:15:52 PM
Again, before the fact nobody knew for sure what their reaction would be. That they came right out and matched doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking a shot at it. Seems to me the signing bonus leverage was potentially high enough to make it worth a try. In the end, all it cost Bergevin was some Twitter snark and 7 days of waiting.  During which nothing happened on the OS front, as things turned out.

I think you can make a pretty educated guess that it wouldn't have worked.

Like I said. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Is it financially ruinous to pay the few bucks? No. Is it maybe worth it just for the thrill of gambling? If that's your bag, sure. But it's not a smart investment either.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 07, 2019, 06:59:21 PM
Again, before the fact nobody knew for sure what their reaction would be. That they came right out and matched doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking a shot at it. Seems to me the signing bonus leverage was potentially high enough to make it worth a try. In the end, all it cost Bergevin was some Twitter snark and 7 days of waiting.  During which nothing happened on the OS front, as things turned out.

I think you can make a pretty educated guess that it wouldn't have worked.

Like I said. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Is it financially ruinous to pay the few bucks? No. Is it maybe worth it just for the thrill of gambling? If that's your bag, sure. But it's not a smart investment either.

I'm trying to put myself in Bergevin's shoes and, while the odds of his being successful weren't real high, I don't think they were as low as hitting the lottery.  Whatever the case may be, the costs to him were low.  And, hard though it may be for us fans of their arch-rival to acknowledge, he did demonstrate to the Habs  fanbase that he's willing to buck the GM Buddies Network to try to improve the team.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Bates on July 07, 2019, 07:05:11 PM
Again, before the fact nobody knew for sure what their reaction would be. That they came right out and matched doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking a shot at it. Seems to me the signing bonus leverage was potentially high enough to make it worth a try. In the end, all it cost Bergevin was some Twitter snark and 7 days of waiting.  During which nothing happened on the OS front, as things turned out.

I think you can make a pretty educated guess that it wouldn't have worked.

Like I said. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Is it financially ruinous to pay the few bucks? No. Is it maybe worth it just for the thrill of gambling? If that's your bag, sure. But it's not a smart investment either.

I'm trying to put myself in Bergevin's shoes and, while the odds of his being successful weren't real high, I don't think they were as low as hitting the lottery.  Whatever the case may be, the costs to him were low.  And, hard though it may be for us fans of their arch-rival to acknowledge, he did demonstrate to the Habs  fanbase that he's willing to buck the GM Buddies Network to try to improve the team.

I think you give too much credit for the "try" by Bergevin. This was a comparison to one of us bidding $500K on a penthouse that's asking $2 million. You are not getting an NHL RFA with a reasonable or maybe even low contract offer. 
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 07, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
BTW, and this is totally incidental to the discussion, my impression here where I live, which has a sizable low-income population who have very few income opps on the horizon, is that people who play the lottery do it both for the little frisson you get from buying a ticket, but as much because they really hope they win.  When you don't have much, and are very aware that you likely never will have just by working harder, then blowing a couple bucks a week on the lottery may make sense to you.

And it does happen.  A local woman here hit for $1-2M a few years ago, and was able build a nice but really modest house for herself and one for her her son.  Got themselves out of mobile homes.  Sure, it doesn't make sense on a purely rational level.  But when you're poor, sometimes all you have to lean on are emotional hopes.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 07, 2019, 07:08:41 PM
Again, before the fact nobody knew for sure what their reaction would be. That they came right out and matched doesn't mean it wasn't worth taking a shot at it. Seems to me the signing bonus leverage was potentially high enough to make it worth a try. In the end, all it cost Bergevin was some Twitter snark and 7 days of waiting.  During which nothing happened on the OS front, as things turned out.

I think you can make a pretty educated guess that it wouldn't have worked.

Like I said. It's like buying a lottery ticket. Is it financially ruinous to pay the few bucks? No. Is it maybe worth it just for the thrill of gambling? If that's your bag, sure. But it's not a smart investment either.

I'm trying to put myself in Bergevin's shoes and, while the odds of his being successful weren't real high, I don't think they were as low as hitting the lottery.  Whatever the case may be, the costs to him were low.  And, hard though it may be for us fans of their arch-rival to acknowledge, he did demonstrate to the Habs  fanbase that he's willing to buck the GM Buddies Network to try to improve the team.

I think you give too much credit for the "try" by Bergevin. This was a comparison to one of us bidding $500K on a penthouse that's asking $2 million. You are not getting an NHL RFA with a reasonable or maybe even low contract offer.

I'm not giving him a ton of credit.  But he deserves some.  That's all.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 07, 2019, 07:09:44 PM
I'm trying to put myself in Bergevin's shoes and, while the odds of his being successful weren't real high, I don't think they were as low as hitting the lottery.  Whatever the case may be, the costs to him were low.  And, hard though it may be for us fans of their arch-rival to acknowledge, he did demonstrate to the Habs  fanbase that he's willing to buck the GM Buddies Network to try to improve the team.

I can't speak for Habs fans but if I were one I'd be a lot less interested in a GM's willingness to try to improve the team than I would be his capacity to actually get it done.

And I really think the "odds" of him succeeding were zero but the lottery thing was a metaphor about how we should be reacting to the offersheet and it's wisdom, not a comparison of probability.
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 07, 2019, 07:11:11 PM
BTW, and this is totally incidental to the discussion, my impression here where I live, which has a sizable low-income population who have very few income opps on the horizon, is that people who play the lottery do it both for the little frisson you get from buying a ticket, but as much because they really hope they win.  When you don't have much, and are very aware that you likely never will have just by working harder, then blowing a couple bucks a week on the lottery may make sense to you.

And it does happen.  A local woman here hit for $1-2M a few years ago, and was able build a nice but really modest house for herself and one for her her son.  Got themselves out of mobile homes.  Sure, it doesn't make sense on a purely rational level.  But when you're poor, sometimes all you have to lean on are emotional hopes.

Right. That was the point of the metaphor. If someone wants to play the lottery just so they can have fun thinking about what they'd do if they won, I'm not going to criticize them too heavily for it. We all waste money on fun.  But I'm also not going to pretend it's a productive use of their money. 
Title: Re: Montreal offer sheets Aho [update: Canes match]
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 07, 2019, 08:14:11 PM
Montreal's offer sheet to Aho was the managerial equivalent of Jason Blake speeding down the wing and taking an unscreened shot from inside the blue line.