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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 05:42:56 PM

Title: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 05:42:56 PM

This would be weird, very weird. But hey why not.

Full official trade:

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2019, 05:47:44 PM

This would be weird, very weird. But hey why not.
Ceci is an unsigned RFA. He probably remains that way with the Leafs.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 29, 2019, 05:52:28 PM

This would be weird, very weird. But hey why not.

Ceci is an RFA, qualified at 4.3M, what would his contract actually look like though?

We know the term will definitley be shorter and if the AAV is significantly lower than Zaitsev, then it makes sense for us I think.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 05:55:31 PM
Ceci is an unsigned RFA. He probably remains that way with the Leafs.

He's already been given a qualifying offer. The Leafs wouldn't just let him walk anyway. He's not a top pair guy, probably not even a top-4 guy, but I'd wouldn't mind seeing what he can do outside of Ottawa. If they can't flip him for something valuable, I'd give him a 1-year deal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2019, 06:05:49 PM
Ceci is an unsigned RFA. He probably remains that way with the Leafs.

He's already been given a qualifying offer. The Leafs wouldn't just let him walk anyway. He's not a top pair guy, probably not even a top-4 guy, but I'd wouldn't mind seeing what he can do outside of Ottawa. If they can't flip him for something valuable, I'd give him a 1-year deal.

If he walks away from his QO and goes to arbitration Leafs can walk away from the contract if he's awarded too much
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 29, 2019, 06:24:38 PM
From his perspective, accepting his QO is probably the way to go.

If he goes to arbitration and awaraded more, then the Leafs walk and he goes to unrestricted free agency and I doubt anyone is offering him 4.3M.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 06:24:47 PM
If he walks away from his QO and goes to arbitration Leafs can walk away from the contract if he's awarded too much

Yeah, that's fair. I'd imagine at most he'd get $5mil through arbitration because of his minutes. He got $4.3mil in last years arbitration and his stats seem pretty much the same (very slightly better offensive numbers). I gotta think as long as he doesn't have big term there's somebody out there that would give up a 2nd rounder or something for Ceci.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 08:40:52 PM
McKenzie saying it's essentially done, just waiting for Toronto to pay the July 1st signing bonus:

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2019, 08:44:40 PM

Obviously we'll have to see what the sweetener is for the Leafs but this is fine.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on June 29, 2019, 08:46:08 PM
How shocked will we be if the sweetner is Marner
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bates on June 29, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
How shocked will we be if the sweetner is Marner

No chance Melnyk takes on that salary!!!
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: louisstamos on June 29, 2019, 09:19:23 PM
I have a feeling the Leafs are hoping he goes to arbitration and they can walk away.  His underlying numbers are a bit weird...he's better offensively, but worse defensively, than Zaitsev.  I don't think he's exactly what the Leafs want/need.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Crake on June 29, 2019, 09:26:29 PM
I'm trying to remember who was the big name player rumored to be traded a few years back that Ottawa supposedly refused to trade Ceci for?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 29, 2019, 09:28:00 PM
I'm trying to remember who was the big name player rumored to be traded a few years back that Ottawa supposedly refused to trade Ceci for?

Taylor Hall.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 29, 2019, 09:33:23 PM
I'm trying to remember who was the big name player rumored to be traded a few years back that Ottawa supposedly refused to trade Ceci for?

Taylor Hall.

There were also rumours about Drouin.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 29, 2019, 09:42:24 PM
Ceci's stats are terrible. This may be a good deal in a year, but it doesn't seem to be doing much for the Leafs this year. Wonder what the sweatener will be.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: AtomicMapleLeaf on June 29, 2019, 09:43:37 PM
Ceci's stats are terrible. This may be a good deal in a year, but it doesn't seem to be doing much for the Leafs this year. Wonder what the sweatener will be.

It may very be just cap space.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Joe S. on June 29, 2019, 09:58:38 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 29, 2019, 10:03:19 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

I don't like that they may, it's just what I've seen on twitter.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 29, 2019, 10:04:28 PM
?s=19
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Highlander on June 29, 2019, 10:10:10 PM
I think what we are forgetting is we want D men who can move the puck quickly. Not panic in the D zone, make a first crisp pass or rush the puck into he O zone where they can make offence happen.  Not that I hated the Z but he was not the guy we hoped he would be . Hope to exploit him in Ottawa.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 29, 2019, 10:37:50 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

Because of Zaitsev's contract and the Leafs' desire to get out of it.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 29, 2019, 10:49:39 PM
Could see Brown as the sweetener. Clears up some space.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: lamajama on June 29, 2019, 11:05:49 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

Because of Zaitsev's contract and the Leafs' desire to get out of it.

Im also slow...as I understand it, this next year is the issue so if that is indeed the case, how does simply being able to be rid of the dollars after next season help this season? Other than as stated being out from Zaitsev long contract is good I am befuddled....not the first time nor the last. I also wonder and I guess can assume that there was simply no ability to make at least a little bit of a hockey deal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 29, 2019, 11:32:52 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

Because of Zaitsev's contract and the Leafs' desire to get out of it.

Im also slow...as I understand it, this next year is the issue so if that is indeed the case, how does simply being able to be rid of the dollars after next season help this season? Other than as stated being out from Zaitsev long contract is good I am befuddled....not the first time nor the last. I also wonder and I guess can assume that there was simply no ability to make at least a little bit of a hockey deal.

You're not the only one.  There seem to be a lot of moving parts here in terms of Ceci and arbitration (PPP has an article explaining), though we don't yet know what else is in the deal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on June 29, 2019, 11:35:25 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

Because of Zaitsev's contract and the Leafs' desire to get out of it.

Im also slow...as I understand it, this next year is the issue so if that is indeed the case, how does simply being able to be rid of the dollars after next season help this season? Other than as stated being out from Zaitsev long contract is good I am befuddled....not the first time nor the last. I also wonder and I guess can assume that there was simply no ability to make at least a little bit of a hockey deal.

 They have been trying for a month. Maybe they realize that this is as good a deal as they will get.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on June 29, 2019, 11:36:29 PM
Im okay with this.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 29, 2019, 11:39:49 PM
Maybe Im slow but why would Toronto have to sweeten this deal?

Because of Zaitsev's contract and the Leafs' desire to get out of it.

Im also slow...as I understand it, this next year is the issue so if that is indeed the case, how does simply being able to be rid of the dollars after next season help this season? Other than as stated being out from Zaitsev long contract is good I am befuddled....not the first time nor the last. I also wonder and I guess can assume that there was simply no ability to make at least a little bit of a hockey deal.

Future years are an issue too because the cap hasn't really been going up that quickly lately and Rielly, Dermott and maybe Muzzin if they decide to keep him are going to need raises in the next few years so getting out from Zaitsev's long term money would help with that.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 29, 2019, 11:44:32 PM
Im okay with this.

But how do you know until we find out what else it's costing us?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on June 30, 2019, 12:31:34 AM
Im okay with this.

But how do you know until we find out what else it's costing us?

Freeing up 4.5M from our cap for this and next season will be huge. Unless you think theyre sweetening the pot with a core player (haha), there is no real downside.

If the sweetener is indeed Brown, thats 6.6M freed up, where Ottawa only needs to cover 3.1M in salary this season after we pay signing bonuses.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on June 30, 2019, 12:33:03 AM
Earl might be on to something in this thread
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 30, 2019, 01:18:12 AM
Im okay with this.

But how do you know until we find out what else it's costing us?

Freeing up 4.5M from our cap for this and next season will be huge. Unless you think theyre sweetening the pot with a core player (haha), there is no real downside.

If the sweetener is indeed Brown, thats 6.6M freed up, where Ottawa only needs to cover 3.1M in salary this season after we pay signing bonuses.
Potentially freeing up space if they dont sign Ceci. Zaitsev is ok but 5 more years at 4.5? No thanks. Adding Brown gains us 1.2 give or take. I don't know how well Ceci will do here if the Leafs sign him but again its another necessary move to rid the team of bad contracts. As for who's better, I dont know. Colaiacavo loves it so all good with me.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: princedpw on June 30, 2019, 03:06:23 AM
Earl might be on to something in this thread

What is this guy saying?  I cant really follow it.  Get weaker one year and then stronger the next??  Given how much luck is involved in hockey, being strong in one year doesnt hold a lot of value. Better to be continuously good for many years.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: princedpw on June 30, 2019, 03:07:30 AM
Im okay with this.

But how do you know until we find out what else it's costing us?

Freeing up 4.5M from our cap for this and next season will be huge. Unless you think theyre sweetening the pot with a core player (haha), there is no real downside.

If the sweetener is indeed Brown, thats 6.6M freed up, where Ottawa only needs to cover 3.1M in salary this season after we pay signing bonuses.

How do we know he wont accept his QO?  People dont seem to think hell get more on the UFA market???
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 06:39:45 AM
What is this guy saying?  I cant really follow it.  Get weaker one year and then stronger the next??  Given how much luck is involved in hockey, being strong in one year doesnt hold a lot of value. Better to be continuously good for many years.

I think the idea is not to rush into a bad decision just for the sake of not experiencing a bit of a come down. If they save cap space rather than just signing the best available guy this year to a multi-year deal they could have a lot of money to offer some of the bigger defensemen who'll be available next off-season.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 06:41:03 AM
How do we know he wont accept his QO?  People dont seem to think hell get more on the UFA market???

I don't know the ins and outs of trading guys who've signed QO's but I think the idea is that Ceci would be a lot easier to move in a deal where you wouldn't have to eat money or throw anything in.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 30, 2019, 08:11:02 AM
What is this guy saying?  I cant really follow it.  Get weaker one year and then stronger the next??  Given how much luck is involved in hockey, being strong in one year doesnt hold a lot of value. Better to be continuously good for many years.

I think the idea is not to rush into a bad decision just for the sake of not experiencing a bit of a come down. If they save cap space rather than just signing the best available guy this year to a multi-year deal they could have a lot of money to offer some of the bigger defensemen who'll be available next off-season.

If said defensemen don't re-sign before reaching the UFA market, which seems to be the trend. Not that I disagree with looking at the longer term picture in general. Sandin and Liljegren may be hits by 2020-21 too.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 08:18:50 AM
If said defensemen don't re-sign before reaching the UFA market, which seems to be the trend. Not that I disagree with looking at the longer term picture in general. Sandin and Liljegren may be hits by 2020-21 too.

Yeah, but that's why he also makes the point that if you can't land someone like that via free agency you'd still be in a really good deadline position to add a major piece as a rental.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on June 30, 2019, 08:56:57 AM
I wonder what the tentative part of this deal is? McKenzie said it could fall apart--based on what? If the teams agreed to a deal what changes between now and Monday?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on June 30, 2019, 09:22:34 AM
I wonder what the tentative part of this deal is? McKenzie said it could fall apart--based on what? If the teams agreed to a deal what changes between now and Monday?

A better offer for any of the pieces in play.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on June 30, 2019, 09:38:17 AM
I wonder what the tentative part of this deal is? McKenzie said it could fall apart--based on what? If the teams agreed to a deal what changes between now and Monday?

A better offer for any of the pieces in play.


Some GM like Jim Benning steps up his offer cause he doesn't want to lose out on the legend that is Zaitsev. I'm ok with that.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on June 30, 2019, 10:08:49 AM
I don't like this, it smells like a desperation move when it's not warranted. Zaitsev is overpaid, but he's hardly a liability. He plays some really hard physical minutes, is an above average skater, and won't be as easy to replace as some people think.

If he wants out, fine, but the idea of having to give up any asset whatsoever or take any bad contract back in my book is a mistake. If they can't move him, then let him walk to the khl and wipe his contract that way.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 10:25:48 AM
I wonder what the tentative part of this deal is? McKenzie said it could fall apart--based on what? If the teams agreed to a deal what changes between now and Monday?

If the deal involves waiting until the 1st so the Leafs can pay Zaitsev's bonus then it may just be tentative in it's extremely literal definition. They have a deal, they've agreed to the parts, they just can't make it official with the league so there could be some last minute change of heart on either side and there'd be no recourse because, again, not an official deal.

I don't know how the league looks at these deals that are delayed for bonus considerations so there's a possibility that they may do it this way so as not to upset the league that's always on the lookout for bigger teams flexing their financial muscle.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 10:28:13 AM
I don't like this, it smells like a desperation move when it's not warranted. Zaitsev is overpaid, but he's hardly a liability. He plays some really hard physical minutes, is an above average skater, and won't be as easy to replace as some people think.

If he wants out, fine, but the idea of having to give up any asset whatsoever or take any bad contract back in my book is a mistake. If they can't move him, then let him walk to the khl and wipe his contract that way.

The obvious downside there is that if he decides to stick around and is unhappy it's an issue you'd rather not deal with.

But beyond that I don't think we should judge this until we see what eventually gets done with the cap space.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Strangelove on June 30, 2019, 11:16:56 AM
To me, Zaitsev is a a complete liability at any price. So I am down with this. Interested in what happens with Ceci though.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 30, 2019, 11:37:29 AM
I don't like this, it smells like a desperation move when it's not warranted. Zaitsev is overpaid, but he's hardly a liability. He plays some really hard physical minutes, is an above average skater, and won't be as easy to replace as some people think.

If he wants out, fine, but the idea of having to give up any asset whatsoever or take any bad contract back in my book is a mistake. If they can't move him, then let him walk to the khl and wipe his contract that way.
I don't see any desperation in this move. Zaitsev wants out, Leafs want his contract gone, pretty simple. If the asset is giving up Brown, that's not a big deal. He's getting traded for nothing anyway. They need his cap space. If they don't sign Ceci they've gained 6.6 in cap space. I'm sure we'll have the details tomorrow, but as of now, I like the move.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2019, 12:22:33 PM
It seems pretty universally accepted that Ceci wouldn't get a pay cut if he went through arbitration again, but I'm not so sure that's true. Let's remember last year it was Ceci vs. Ottawa's dumb management team. I'd imagine the Leafs would be able to argue a significantly better case against Ceci earning $4mil+ than they were. Keep in mind all advanced stats on NHL.com are fair game in arbitration hearings.
Title: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 30, 2019, 12:55:04 PM
Whatever happens I don't really want to see Ceci on our defense this season. Rather than trying to make other crappy teams' crappy cast offs work, bite the bullet and put the Marlie grads out there. Re-sign Hainsey as a 5/6 mentor. Then take your lumps while they learn. Maybe even miss the playoffs. Most of the fix on d is going to have to come internally.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: RedLeaf on June 30, 2019, 01:29:09 PM
Whatever happens I don't really want to see Ceci on our defense this season. Rather than trying to make other crappy teams' crappy cast offs work, bite the bullet and put the Marlie grads out there. Re-sign Hainsey as a 5/6 mentor. Then take your lumps while they learn. Maybe even miss the playoffs. Most of the fix on d is going to have to come internally.

Missing the playoffs this year would have enormous ramifications and consequences that would ripple through the entire management and coaching staff of this team. Im quite certain they will try and avoid that situation from occurring at all costs.

My guess would be they use the newly found cap space to not only get Marner signed but also Gardiner. Then if they get lucky perhaps they find another D-man on the cheap from the pool of free agents. With that and a combination of some Marlie graduates, the D would be mostly set .

Rielly, Muzzin, Dermott, Gardiner, Lilligren, Sandin, Rosen (Hainsey, Ceci or defender-X)

If that defence doesnt pan out as planned, option B is employed and a forward is traded for an upgrade on D during the season.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2019, 02:18:50 PM

Imagine believing the team with the biggest analytics group in the history of the NHL would consider signing Ceci to this contract.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 30, 2019, 02:22:47 PM
I would have thought some more details about the full deal would have surfaced by now.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 30, 2019, 02:25:27 PM

Imagine believing the team with the biggest analytics group in the history of the NHL would consider signing Ceci to this contract.
Dreger spewing crap again. I dont see Ceci even playing for the Leafs. I think they trade him or walk away from arb. Also think if Brown is involved the Leafs gain 6.6 mill in space and could see them offering Gardiner a contract.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on June 30, 2019, 03:23:28 PM

Imagine believing the team with the biggest analytics group in the history of the NHL would consider signing Ceci to this contract.
Dreger spewing crap again. I dont see Ceci even playing for the Leafs. I think they trade him or walk away from arb. Also think if Brown is involved the Leafs gain 6.6 mill in space and could see them offering Gardiner a contract.
That makes a lot of sense. Ship of Z, walk away from Ceci, get cap space to spend on Gards. I like it. I think we really can't afford to lose Jake and as of right now everyone is in flux. Hopefully they manage to pull a rabbit out of a hat somewhere.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2019, 03:32:30 PM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2019/6/30/20123859/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-nikita-zaitsev-cody-ceci-connor-brown-i-had-to-read-the-cba-for-this

A good look at the potential options for what the Leafs can do with Ceci. An interesting idea they mentioned is to sign Ceci to a 1-year deal that's mostly signing bonuses and then trying to trade him after that's paid.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Big Daddy on June 30, 2019, 03:51:17 PM
Let's hope Ceci goes to arbitration.  Then we let him walk.  If he doesn't then we should trade him for picks.  Sign Gardiner then pick up Phaneuf and resign Hainsey for a combined 3M then we have
Rielly-Muzzin
Dermott-Gardiner
Hainsey-Phaneuf
Holl or Marincin
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: princedpw on June 30, 2019, 03:55:34 PM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2019/6/30/20123859/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-nikita-zaitsev-cody-ceci-connor-brown-i-had-to-read-the-cba-for-this

A good look at the potential options for what the Leafs can do with Ceci. An interesting idea they mentioned is to sign Ceci to a 1-year deal that's mostly signing bonuses and then trying to trade him after that's paid.

It would be hilarious if they did this and then traded him back to Ottawa for some draft picks. Id definitely take a 2nd or two.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on June 30, 2019, 03:57:01 PM
If Ceci just signs his QO, Im sure the Leafs can move him if they retain 50%. It would mean less free space than we want, but if it is Zaitsev and Brown, it would essentially be clearing $4.5M minus the cost of the replacement players.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: KW Sluggo on June 30, 2019, 04:02:33 PM
I don't like this, it smells like a desperation move when it's not warranted. Zaitsev is overpaid, but he's hardly a liability. He plays some really hard physical minutes, is an above average skater, and won't be as easy to replace as some people think.

If he wants out, fine, but the idea of having to give up any asset whatsoever or take any bad contract back in my book is a mistake. If they can't move him, then let him walk to the khl and wipe his contract that way.
I don't see any desperation in this move. Zaitsev wants out, Leafs want his contract gone, pretty simple. If the asset is giving up Brown, that's not a big deal. He's getting traded for nothing anyway. They need his cap space. If they don't sign Ceci they've gained 6.6 in cap space. I'm sure we'll have the details tomorrow, but as of now, I like the move.

Why do the Leafs want Zaitsev's contract gone?

It's not that bad a contract.

They will be paying at least that much for a comparable replacement, for example, it looks like they will be paying that much right off the bat for Ceci who will take the QO unless he is a complete idiot.

Sure the Leafs will be out from under in a year but they are screwed for next year and a year from now with the TV rights coming up for renogitiation you can expect the remaining years on Zaitsev's contract will look rather inexpensive at that point in time.

All of this is without any consideration being given to the argument that Zaitsev may have been misused by the Leafs for the last season and a half.

Why are the leafs trying to take a position with a pronounced weakness and trying to make it weaker still? First Marincin, now Ceci.

The notion that we are allegedly adding a "sweetener" after paying a $3M bonus tomorrow make this potential trade even more ridiculous.

WTFU Dubas!!!


Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 30, 2019, 04:09:39 PM
I doubt the Leafs traded for Ceci with the intention of walking away from him. He's going to play for the Leafs next year as unfortunate as that sounds. Or maybe he'll be traded.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: KW Sluggo on June 30, 2019, 04:11:44 PM
More defence dumpster diving.
JFC.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on June 30, 2019, 04:17:57 PM
I doubt the Leafs traded for Ceci with the intention of walking away from him. He's going to play for the Leafs next year as unfortunate as that sounds. Or maybe he'll be traded.

Ha! I liked how you covered all the bases at the end ;). Although alien abduction is also a possibility.

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 30, 2019, 04:33:55 PM
I doubt the Leafs traded for Ceci with the intention of walking away from him. He's going to play for the Leafs next year as unfortunate as that sounds. Or maybe he'll be traded.

Ha! I liked how you covered all the bases at the end ;). Although alien abduction is also a possibility.

Lol I mean to say the talk that the intention is to trade for him to not play is crazy. Maybe at some point the trade him because something comes along, but they traded for him to play him. At least for a little while.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: cabber24 on June 30, 2019, 05:55:00 PM
I dont what the plan is on D this year but I cant pencil together a decent 6 with what they have. I want to get better, feels like were getting worse. $CAD improving and tv deal on the horizon Zaitsev might be a complete steal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 30, 2019, 06:23:42 PM
I dont what the plan is on D this year but I cant pencil together a decent 6 with what they have. I want to get better, feels like were getting worse.

Realistically, they were always going to get worse this off-season. That's just a function of the cap. Muzzin is replacing Gardiner, effectively, and beyond that they don't really have the cap room for anything else.

The Leafs right now have, or will have, just under 11 million dollars in cap space. Most of that, it's fair to say, is going to go to Marner. Trading Zaitsev and perhaps Brown is how Dubas is hoping to free up enough money to make some low cost additions to the back end and fill out the roster. If that's successful the Leafs still aren't going to be bringing in major pieces who'll drastically alter the team's capabilities but rather hopefully some good value Hainsey-esque veterans(in terms of cost, rather than ability).
 
I get that we want a continuous upward trajectory but were people expecting the Leafs to sign Tavares and then Nylander-Matthews-Marner and turn around and have 25 million dollars to throw at free agent defensemen? That's not how the league works.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 30, 2019, 11:01:49 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/just-exactly-marc-bergevin-sleeve/

This link that Carlton posted in the free agency thread also mentions Brown being in the Zaitsev deal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2019, 11:18:46 PM
Is Connor Brown now Ottawa's 2nd best forward?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on June 30, 2019, 11:25:31 PM

Paul coming through with the goods.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on June 30, 2019, 11:42:14 PM

6 pieces!!
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 30, 2019, 11:44:18 PM
So still a big chunk of the trade that we don't know about. I wonder if the Leafs try to use one of their many LHD (say Borgman) to try and pry out DeMelo as well.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bullfrog on June 30, 2019, 11:56:01 PM
I'm on the side that doesn't think Zaitsev's contract is really all that terrible. But, it is/was so surprising that it included a NTC.

On that note, I really don't believe it's fair that a player permanently waives a no trade clause. It should follow them to the new team.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Peter D. on July 01, 2019, 12:02:29 AM
Ill reserve complete judgement until seeing what other pieces are involved and what the cap space is used for. Because even with his contract, Id much rather have Zaitsev over Ceci. Cecis terrible.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 12:04:37 AM

6 pieces!!

At *least* 6.  This thing could escalate into a buh-lock buster.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 12:11:53 AM
Ill reserve complete judgement until seeing what other pieces are involved and what the cap space is used for. Because even with his contract, Id much rather have Zaitsev over Ceci. Cecis terrible.

I'm with you there.

BTW, and I hope you all will take this observation from a Yank in the spirit in which it was intended, but I think it was really short-sighted for Canada to schedule a big national holiday on the same day free agency opens.  Like, duh.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 01:44:30 AM
Ill reserve complete judgement until seeing what other pieces are involved and what the cap space is used for. Because even with his contract, Id much rather have Zaitsev over Ceci. Cecis terrible.

I'm with you there.

BTW, and I hope you all will take this observation from a Yank in the spirit in which it was intended, but I think it was really short-sighted for Canada to schedule a big national holiday on the same day free agency opens.  Like, duh.

I will have you know, sir, that our first Prime Minister, Sir John A. MacDonald himself specifically chose this day so that we could all get drunk before noon.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2019, 03:48:23 AM
hmmm ... I just read the leafs are sending the sens a 1st rnd pick.  That does not make me happy.  i hope that turns out to be wrong.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Joe S. on July 01, 2019, 07:37:50 AM
hmmm ... I just read the leafs are sending the sens a 1st rnd pick.  That does not make me happy.  i hope that turns out to be wrong.

Read where? Theres no way. I cant believe that. Well, I dont want to believe that!
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2019, 07:52:33 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/SunGarrioch/status/1145656368155766787

"Deal is expected to be announced soon. It's Zaitsev, Brown and Carconne for Ceci, Harpur, Luchuk and a pick. #Sens"

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 08:00:38 AM

Well, that's not too bad.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2019, 08:10:37 AM
Pretty substantial trade ...

https://www.tsn.ca/toronto-maple-leafs-sending-zaitsev-brown-to-ottawa-senators-in-multi-player-deal-1.1331097
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:17:39 AM
Leafs come out ahead easily and the only player Id semi miss is Carcone, but hes an AAAA winger on our team at best.

Dubas squeezes a pick out of the dumping process.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 08:17:57 AM
So Ottawa has Columbus' 2nd and 3rd round pick in 2020 so I guess it's one of those two.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Boston Leaf on July 01, 2019, 08:18:29 AM
what do we know about Harpur? Seems like a big guy how physical is he?  Any chance of staying up?
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2019, 08:18:37 AM
The pick might be a 2nd or 3rd.  Ottawa has a 2nd and 3rd from Columbus.

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 08:21:58 AM
I'm not hating this deal, yet. Depends on what happens with Ceci.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 08:25:49 AM
what do we know about Harpur? Seems like a big guy how physical is he?  Any chance of staying up?

His possession numbers aren't very good and he's a left side guy so he's probably a long shot to get any real time here.
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:26:21 AM
A quick glance at Harpur's numbers reveal that he's bad... very bad. Might just be the Ottawa effect but I doubt it. The trade as a whole seems fine: we had to get out of Zaitsev's contract and we didn't take any contracts with term back. If the Leafs can flip both Harpur and Ceci for positive assets it comes out as a pretty big win.
Title: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:27:48 AM
The pick is Columbus' 3rd rounder in 2020:

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 08:30:22 AM
A quick glance at Harpur's numbers reveal that he's bad... very bad. Might just be the Ottawa effect but I doubt it. The trade as a whole seems fine: we had to get out of Zaitsev's contract and we didn't take any contracts with term back. If the Leafs can flip both Harpur and Ceci for positive assets it comes out as a pretty big win.

If they flip Ceci I would call it a big win too. If they sign him for 4.3 million for one year, then I guess it was the best they could do under the circumstances, not terrible. My fear is they sign him to a multi-year deal at 4+ million a year.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:38:29 AM
This is like the Phaneuf trade. Ottawas motivations are so obviously exploitable.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2019, 08:39:04 AM
A quick glance at Harpur's numbers reveal that he's bad... very bad. Might just be the Ottawa effect but I doubt it. The trade as a whole seems fine: we had to get out of Zaitsev's contract and we didn't take any contracts with term back. If the Leafs can flip both Harpur and Ceci for positive assets it comes out as a pretty big win.

If they flip Ceci I would call it a big win too. If they sign him for 4.3 million for one year, then I guess it was the best they could do under the circumstances, not terrible. My fear is they sign him to a multi-year deal at 4+ million a year.
Ok, but one of the most obvious things that we have discussed is that A) Ceci is possibly a downgrade on Z and 2) He won't save us any $ and 3) We need cap space. Why would he sign Ceci to term? This seems like such an obvious outcome that he won't since we need the cap space pretty badly right now.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:39:47 AM
This is like the Phaneuf trade. Ottawas motivations are so obviously exploitable.

#calledit (https://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=5482.0)
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2019, 08:42:29 AM
A quick glance at Harpur's numbers reveal that he's bad... very bad. Might just be the Ottawa effect but I doubt it. The trade as a whole seems fine: we had to get out of Zaitsev's contract and we didn't take any contracts with term back. If the Leafs can flip both Harpur and Ceci for positive assets it comes out as a pretty big win.

If they flip Ceci I would call it a big win too. If they sign him for 4.3 million for one year, then I guess it was the best they could do under the circumstances, not terrible. My fear is they sign him to a multi-year deal at 4+ million a year.
Ok, but one of the most obvious things that we have discussed is that A) Ceci is possibly a downgrade on Z and 2) He won't save us any $ and 3) We need cap space. Why would he sign Ceci to term? This seems like such an obvious outcome that he won't since we need the cap space pretty badly right now.

Agreed. This feels like a total salary dump, but with a few added nuggets we can hopefully flip for picks.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:43:27 AM
Brown obviously had no place on the team anymore, and deep down I'm sure he wanted to play somewhere where he wasn't just a 4th liner, but still this must be tough for him. Toronto kid who got picked in the 6th round and wasn't really expected to make the NHL. Worked his butt off to be come a NHLer for the team he rooted for growing up. He lived his childhood dream. I wish him the best of luck in Ottawa.

Zaitsev I don't care about in any possible way.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:45:13 AM
This is like the Phaneuf trade. Ottawas motivations are so obviously exploitable.

#calledit (https://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=5482.0)

Like Lou did it very obviously last time, and Dubas strolls over and still squeezes an actual pick out of the proceedings.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:48:25 AM
This blows open a huge hole in the Leafs PK scheme (pretty good during the season, exploited during the playoffs), so itll be interesting to see how we build this. Marincin definitely starting the season on the Leafs with Dermott in recovery until December. Up front we probably see Moore take on a PK role and Tavares taking draws.

Nick Shore and Kenny Agostino help too if they make the team.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 08:51:45 AM
A quick glance at Harpur's numbers reveal that he's bad... very bad. Might just be the Ottawa effect but I doubt it. The trade as a whole seems fine: we had to get out of Zaitsev's contract and we didn't take any contracts with term back. If the Leafs can flip both Harpur and Ceci for positive assets it comes out as a pretty big win.

If they flip Ceci I would call it a big win too. If they sign him for 4.3 million for one year, then I guess it was the best they could do under the circumstances, not terrible. My fear is they sign him to a multi-year deal at 4+ million a year.
Ok, but one of the most obvious things that we have discussed is that A) Ceci is possibly a downgrade on Z and 2) He won't save us any $ and 3) We need cap space. Why would he sign Ceci to term? This seems like such an obvious outcome that he won't since we need the cap space pretty badly right now.

Agreed. This feels like a total salary dump, but with a few added nuggets we can hopefully flip for picks.

Dreger has put the fear in me re something longer term. Probably Ceci signs for 4.3ish one year and this trade saves cap space in the future. In which case, good deal for 2020 and beyond, but it doesn't help much this year.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:59:42 AM
Bill, remember the part where if Ceci filed for arbitration and he is awarded more than his QO the team can walk away from the contract? Its cap space. Cap space is the currency the Leafs truly care about.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 09:00:38 AM

Yeah, I'll never say never but I'd be pretty shocked if we ever see Ceci in a Leafs uniform.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:04:56 AM
Bill, remember the part where if Ceci filed for arbitration and he is awarded more than his QO the team can walk away from the contract? Its cap space. Cap space is the currency the Leafs truly care about.

I do remember that, but it means Ceci actually files for arbitration, and he may realize that no oe on the UFA market will sign him for 4+, leading him to sign the QO.

As far as walking away, I just find it hard to believe the team will be ruthless like that. I am more inclinded to believe they see value in Ceci and wouldn't just walk away. I mean if both Tor or Ott had walking away as an option, why was he in the trade at all? Ott could also have just walked away. So either he's signing the QO or Tor wants to play him. 
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 09:08:49 AM
Ceci plays a lot of minutes so he is eminently tradeable to any team that values a big minute RHD: Anaheim, Edmonton, etc.

E.g. Ceci for Matt Benning as a stop gap for bringing up Liljegren.
Or if Holland is stupid: Bracco and Ceci for Larsson.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 09:10:14 AM
As far as walking away, I just find it hard to believe the team will be ruthless like that. I am more inclinded to believe they see value in Ceci and wouldn't just walk away. I mean if both Tor or Ott had walking away as an option, why was he in the trade at all? Ott could also have just walked away.

Right, but as they've just committed to Zaitsev's deal it's clear that they value him. So they get what they feel is an upgrade on Ceci while the Leafs get the ability walk away from Ceci and free up cap space.

So Ottawa gets a defenseman, Leafs get space. Win win.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:12:37 AM
As far as walking away, I just find it hard to believe the team will be ruthless like that. I am more inclinded to believe they see value in Ceci and wouldn't just walk away. I mean if both Tor or Ott had walking away as an option, why was he in the trade at all? Ott could also have just walked away.

Right, but as they've just committed to Zaitsev's deal it's clear that they value him. So they get what they feel is an upgrade on Ceci while the Leafs get the ability walk away from Ceci and free up cap space.

So Ottawa gets a defenseman, Leafs get space. Win win.

Sure, but if both teams intend to walk away, couldn't the Sens have got Zaitsev without including Ceci in the deal? Did they want to move him? Did the Leafs want him included? One of those must be true right? If so, why did Ott care about moving him or why did the Leafs want him in return?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 09:16:31 AM
Decent deal. Brown will be missed on the PK, but otherwise was buried here. Leafs also have options with Ceci the sens were probably unlikely to use.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 09:16:46 AM
Sure, but if both teams intend to walk away, couldn't the Sens have got Zaitsev without including Ceci in the deal? Did they want to move him? Did the Leafs want him included? One of those must be true right? If so, why did Ott care about moving him or why did the Leafs want him in return?

My hunch is that the Leafs feel they can flip Ceci for something or other. So getting him, and some value, was probably part of the deal on their part.

I think walking away is seen as sort of a last resort option but one they're still happy to have.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Strangelove on July 01, 2019, 09:17:37 AM
Great salary dump. All of Babcocks favourite deadweight players are being unloaded. Perfect offseason so far.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:23:56 AM
Sure, but if both teams intend to walk away, couldn't the Sens have got Zaitsev without including Ceci in the deal? Did they want to move him? Did the Leafs want him included? One of those must be true right? If so, why did Ott care about moving him or why did the Leafs want him in return?

My hunch is that the Leafs feel they can flip Ceci for something or other. So getting him, and some value, was probably part of the deal on their part.

I think walking away is seen as sort of a last resort option but one they're still happy to have.

Yeah that would make sense. The value the Leafs see in him is not as a player for them, but as a player for someone else.

I hope you're right!
Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: KW Sluggo on July 01, 2019, 09:30:41 AM
So still a big chunk of the trade that we don't know about. I wonder if the Leafs try to use one of their many LHD (say Borgman) to try and pry out DeMelo as well.

Well now we know the rest of the deal and it is still rather ugly as far as I am concerned.
We will have to hope that Columbus tanks with all of their player defections so that we might get lucky with that 3rd rounder.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2019, 09:35:09 AM
Not sure if speculation or legit:

Title: Re: Zaitsev [tentatively] traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:35:53 AM
Ill reserve complete judgement until seeing what other pieces are involved and what the cap space is used for. Because even with his contract, Id much rather have Zaitsev over Ceci. Cecis terrible.

I'm with you there.

BTW, and I hope you all will take this observation from a Yank in the spirit in which it was intended, but I think it was really short-sighted for Canada to schedule a big national holiday on the same day free agency opens.  Like, duh.

I will have you know, sir, that our first Prime Minister, Sir John A. MacDonald himself specifically chose this day so that we could all get drunk before noon.

I stand humbly corrected.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:39:41 AM
Not sure if speculation or legit:


Not surprised. Hopefully, Nik is still right and the Leafs intend to trade Ceci, but if this is true, walking away from the contract is off the table. If I were a betting man, I'd say Ceci is going to play in Toronto next season. Top four RHD?  :(
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:41:38 AM

Yeah, I'll never say never but I'd be pretty shocked if we ever see Ceci in a Leafs uniform.

And disappointed.  There's no way he should be a future part of the defense.  Maybe a mid-season trade? 
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:43:50 AM

Yeah, I'll never say never but I'd be pretty shocked if we ever see Ceci in a Leafs uniform.

And disappointed.  There's no way he should be a future part of the defense.  Maybe a mid-season trade?

Or a mid-season extension.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 09:44:33 AM
If Ceci's in the lineup to start the season, I hate this trade, with a capital H.

If Ceci is flipped somehow, and Gardiner is in the lineup (or his non unionized mexican equivalent), I love this trade.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:45:58 AM

Yeah, I'll never say never but I'd be pretty shocked if we ever see Ceci in a Leafs uniform.

And disappointed.  There's no way he should be a future part of the defense.  Maybe a mid-season trade?

Or a mid-season extension.

Shaddup.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 09:46:59 AM
If Ceci's in the lineup to start the season, I hate this trade, with a capital H.

I really don't get this. The worst interpretation of this trade is that we removed 4 years from Zaitsev's contract. That's still pretty good.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:47:45 AM
So now OTT is going to be signing Hainsey and Ennis?

All this interchange with the sens is very demeaning.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: gunnar36 on July 01, 2019, 09:48:01 AM
Most of you are calling this a salary dump, but I never thought that Zaitsev at 4.5 is a gross overpay.  Mobile right shot dmen are hard to find and I really think Z's offensive skills were being suppressed in his role with leafs.  He will likely get some decent PP time with Sens and his 4.5 per could turn out to be a good contract for them.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 09:49:02 AM
at that number on a one year deal, Ceci should be moveable. If the Leafs retain some cap, possibly even valuable.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:49:53 AM
Most of you are calling this a salary dump, but I never thought that Zaitsev at 4.5 is a gross overpay.  Mobile right shot dmen are hard to find and I really think Z's offensive skills were being suppressed in his role with leafs.  He will likely get some decent PP time with Sens and his 4.5 per could turn out to be a good contract for them.

Yeah, and apropos of your nick he could turn out to be the Leafs' next Carl Gunnarsson (I wouldn't go as far as to say Stralman, who it would be very nice to have back right about now BTW).
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 09:51:22 AM
Apparently Ceci agreed verbally to the qualifying offer so no arb. He'll play for the Leafs/Marlies or be traded.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 09:51:35 AM
If Ceci's in the lineup to start the season, I hate this trade, with a capital H.

I really don't get this. The worst interpretation of this trade is that we removed 4 years from Zaitsev's contract. That's still pretty good.

We downgraded our defense for the current season, and it cost us an asset to do it. I have no doubt Brown could have been moved on his own. As Zaitsev's contract aged, he'd be more and more moveable, and in the meantime, the org could have mended fences, or he could go to the KHL = free space. I don't see why we had to compromise the team in the short term to do this, assuming Ceci is staying.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 09:51:35 AM
?s=21

HAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:52:53 AM
This blows open a huge hole in the Leafs PK scheme (pretty good during the season, exploited during the playoffs), so itll be interesting to see how we build this. Marincin definitely starting the season on the Leafs with Dermott in recovery until December. Up front we probably see Moore take on a PK role and Tavares taking draws.

Nick Shore and Kenny Agostino help too if they make the team.

Matthews.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 09:53:02 AM
If Ceci's in the lineup to start the season, I hate this trade, with a capital H.

I really don't get this. The worst interpretation of this trade is that we removed 4 years from Zaitsev's contract. That's still pretty good.

Still very tradeable mid-season. Leafs still need bodies there so its either guy whos here or go buy/trade for someone else. Timing and valuation are key. If October and November give Ceci a bit more Babcock value around the league, thats okay. Id still rather we move him before the season but thats predicated on us actually have other far better options in the fold.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 09:53:33 AM
?s=21

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Seems Ott is the NYI of 2019-2020. Maybe they'll have better results that we think.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2019, 09:53:43 AM
$3.5 for Hainsey? Is this a sign and trade with the Leafs or something? Let Toronto pay the bonus?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 09:56:07 AM
Well, say what you will but this trade and now Boss & Ennis make OTT considerably better than they were 20 minutes ago.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 09:56:32 AM
$3.5 for Hainsey? Is this a sign and trade with the Leafs or something? Let Toronto pay the bonus?

Assuming it's for a single year, I don't think it's all that outrageous.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 09:57:24 AM
If Ceci's in the lineup to start the season, I hate this trade, with a capital H.

I really don't get this. The worst interpretation of this trade is that we removed 4 years from Zaitsev's contract. That's still pretty good.

We downgraded our defense for the current season, and it cost us an asset to do it. I have no doubt Brown could have been moved on his own. As Zaitsev's contract aged, he'd be more and more moveable, and in the meantime, the org could have mended fences, or he could go to the KHL = free space. I don't see why we had to compromise the team in the short term to do this, assuming Ceci is staying.

It's a good move. Zaitsevs numbers were horrible and 5 more years? There wasnt 1 hockey expert who said that is a good deal. As for Brown, yes he could have been traded by himself but the Leafs don't want salary back in the deal. He's a pure dump as well. Can't pay a 4th line guy 2+mill.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 09:58:44 AM
We downgraded our defense for the current season, and it cost us an asset to do it. I have no doubt Brown could have been moved on his own. As Zaitsev's contract aged, he'd be more and more moveable, and in the meantime, the org could have mended fences, or he could go to the KHL = free space. I don't see why we had to compromise the team in the short term to do this, assuming Ceci is staying.

That's debatable. I won't get into all the nitty gritty analytics details, but they've both produced similar bad results for years. The difference is Zaitsev did it surrounded with NHLers while Ceci did not. If anything that leads me to to believe that odds are Ceci has the better season after they change environments.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 10:02:33 AM
at that number on a one year deal, Ceci should be moveable. If the Leafs retain some cap, possibly even valuable.

Interesting that Ceci wasn't moveable on an expiring contract at the trade deadline for the same number.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 10:04:08 AM
Well, say what you will but this trade and now Boss & Ennis make OTT considerably better than they were 20 minutes ago.

Are they? An aging D who struggled mightily on a better team here, and an okay 3rd/4th line winger? None of the pieces they added today move the needle all that much, and, even the combined impact is marginal.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 10:06:56 AM
Well, say what you will but this trade and now Boss & Ennis make OTT considerably better than they were 20 minutes ago.

Are they? An aging D who struggled mightily on a better team here, and an okay 3rd/4th line winger? None of the pieces they added today move the needle all that much, and, even the combined impact is marginal.
Hainsey will be good with the young D.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 10:07:34 AM
at that number on a one year deal, Ceci should be moveable. If the Leafs retain some cap, possibly even valuable.

Interesting that Ceci wasn't moveable on an expiring contract at the trade deadline for the same number.

Pending RFA compared to pending UFA. Teams could have let walk, sure, but the optics of giving up assets for a player at the deadline only to actively decide to let him go for nothing when keeping him would have simply required offering a contract would have been terrible. We also dont really know what Ottawa was asking in return, and can be pretty confident the Leafs would be willing to take less if it means shedding the cap space - assuming thats the plan.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 10:07:45 AM
Are they? An aging D who struggled mightily on a better team here, and an okay 3rd/4th line winger? None of the pieces they added today move the needle all that much, and, even the combined impact is marginal.

I mean it makes them better, but that's not exactly something Ottawa should be proud about.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 10:11:29 AM
For what it's worth, Evolving-Wild's wins and goals above replacement models both have Ceci ranked above Zaitsev (but neither of their numbers are anything to write home about).
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 10:13:18 AM
Hainsey will be good with the young D.

I have my doubts about that. The on ice impact of mentorship is over stated.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2019, 10:14:12 AM
For what it's worth, Evolving-Wild's wins and goals above replacement models both have Ceci ranked above Zaitsev (but neither of their numbers are anything to write home about).
Was Ceci played too high up for the Sens? Maybe less minutes he may be more effective
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 10:19:14 AM
For what it's worth, Evolving-Wild's wins and goals above replacement models both have Ceci ranked above Zaitsev (but neither of their numbers are anything to write home about).
Was Ceci played too high up for the Sens? Maybe less minutes he may be more effective

Giving any bad player fewer minutes is going to be a positive. The problem is, the Leafs are short a lot of good defencemen. I sure hope Dubas has some sort of plan here, because starting the season with Reilly, Muzzin and a bunch of ahl'ers is not going to work out well.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 10:29:22 AM
For what it's worth, Evolving-Wild's wins and goals above replacement models both have Ceci ranked above Zaitsev (but neither of their numbers are anything to write home about).
Was Ceci played too high up for the Sens? Maybe less minutes he may be more effective

Giving any bad player fewer minutes is going to be a positive. The problem is, the Leafs are short a lot of good defencemen. I sure hope Dubas has some sort of plan here, because starting the season with Reilly, Muzzin and a bunch of ahl'ers is not going to work out well.
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 10:33:35 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2019, 10:39:14 AM
For what it's worth, Evolving-Wild's wins and goals above replacement models both have Ceci ranked above Zaitsev (but neither of their numbers are anything to write home about).
Was Ceci played too high up for the Sens? Maybe less minutes he may be more effective

Giving any bad player fewer minutes is going to be a positive. The problem is, the Leafs are short a lot of good defencemen. I sure hope Dubas has some sort of plan here, because starting the season with Reilly, Muzzin and a bunch of ahl'ers is not going to work out well.
I think any rational human being would know that Dubas has a plan.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2019, 10:40:21 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.


I get the sentiment, but rather than lottery ticket total crapshoot less than 0.1% chance or whatever, these are players they've been developing and watching longer than any of us so they can project what they'll be. Not exactly a total shot in the dark.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 10:41:41 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.

So what sort of approach to upgrading the Leafs defense should management take given their limited cap space?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 10:42:20 AM
I say again, bring up all the young dudes and let Freddie bail them out (or not) as they learn. It's the only way.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2019, 10:43:06 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.

Lol. No. Thats not a good approach.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 10:43:15 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.

So what sort of approach to upgrading the Leafs defense should management take given their limited cap space?

Trade.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 10:45:51 AM
Trade.

Trade who? And for who? And what reason is there to believe that the Forward for Defense trade market has gotten a lot better?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 10:46:40 AM
On paper yes, but we dont know. Liljegren, Borgman, Rosen whoever could do well if they're here. We just dont know until it happens.

Hopefully no one in the leaf brass shares the "well, we could win lotto max instead of planning for retirement" approach to sports management.
The season doesnt start tomorrow. I suspect Dubas has a plan but I still stand by what I said. We wont know if any of the AHLers will succeed until they're actually here. We'll see.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2019, 10:49:17 AM
Sounds like there may have been a trade for Kadri in the works that fell thru. Im sure the Leafs havent stopped taking calls on their forwards to try and turn one of them into a top D-man.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 10:52:47 AM
Trade.

Trade who? And for who? And what reason is there to believe that the Forward for Defense trade market has gotten a lot better?

There's literally no answer I can give you that you won't nitpick on either of those questions, even if I was to give you an answer that actually came to fruition 5 minutes later - so I'm not going to take the bait.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 11:01:00 AM
Its not bait. Its a legitimate question we all have for anyone who insists on changes being made but without presenting any viable options.

No team goes into the playoffs with the exact same lineup as Opening Day. The Leafs core drivers are largely intact (sans Gardiner) and none of them are 30 yet. There are maybe only two teams that wouldnt kill everyone to be in our situation.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:03:32 AM
No team goes into the playoffs with the exact same lineup as Opening Day. The Leafs core drivers are largely intact (sans Gardiner) and none of them are 30 yet. There are maybe only two teams that wouldnt kill everyone to be in our situation.

The healthy defence this season vs our starting defence last season is pretty close to being equal. Arguably even better if Dermott can outperform Hainsey on the top pair:

Rielly-Dermott > Rielly-Hainsey
Muzzin-Ceci  = Gardiner-Zaitsev
Rosen-anybodynotOz = Dermott-Oz
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2019, 11:04:35 AM
I quite liked Brown's game, so I'll miss watching him.

I'm a little concerned about the PK, given it looks like Hainsey is gone along with Brown. 
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 11:05:57 AM
Justin Holl, baby!
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:06:15 AM
Its not bait. Its a legitimate question we all have for anyone who insists on changes being made but without presenting any viable options.

It is bait when it isn't asked as genuine interest, rather as an excuse to argue. If someone else asked the question, I'd say likely Kadri or Johnsson would be a prime candidate, targeting Carolina or another team either weak at C or rich in defense.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:07:44 AM
Justin Holl, baby!

(https://media.tenor.com/images/8c3ad582cb7178191074593f25be0161/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 11:08:25 AM
I'm a little concerned about the PK, given it looks like Hainsey is gone along with Brown.

The PK wasnt exactly amazing last season. It could use new faces to go with the new strategies from the new assistant coaches.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 11:10:47 AM
Its not bait. Its a legitimate question we all have for anyone who insists on changes being made but without presenting any viable options.

It is bait when it isn't asked as genuine interest, rather as an excuse to argue. If someone else asked the question, I'd say likely Kadri or Johnsson would be a prime candidate, targeting Carolina or another team either weak at C or rich in defense.

He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:25:25 AM
He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.

One can tell based on the way a question is phrased whether it's a lead in for further enjoyable discussion (like yours), or just an excuse for contradiction. Better to take the high road.

I like both those players; Pesce in particular. I'm less concerned about the 3C, considering we have the flexibility to potentially slot Nylander in there for occasional shifts, or possibly even Spezza. I think the need is too great on D, assuming Gardiner is gone, to necessarily require addressing the 3C hole if it compromises targeting the right guy on defense.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2019, 11:25:30 AM
Its not bait. Its a legitimate question we all have for anyone who insists on changes being made but without presenting any viable options.

It is bait when it isn't asked as genuine interest, rather as an excuse to argue. If someone else asked the question, I'd say likely Kadri or Johnsson would be a prime candidate, targeting Carolina or another team either weak at C or rich in defense.

He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.

And that's where it gets tough.  Kadri isn't going to fetch a right d-man and a dependable 3 line center by himself.  Maybe they sign a Sheahan or someone like that to try and stop gap it.  Love it or hate it, this team only goes as far as Matthews, Tavares, Nylander, and Marner take it.   
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:26:51 AM
He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.

Rumours have Stralman signing with the Panthers, that drops Mark Pysyk down to their 3rd pairing. If we could dump Ceci somewhere he'd be a guy I'd target.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:30:13 AM
He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.

Rumours have Stralman signing with the Panthers, that drops Mark Pysyk down to their 3rd pairing. If we could dump Ceci somewhere he'd be a guy I'd target.

Assuming the latter could occur, would it not be possible to have the room to sign Gardiner as plan "A"?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2019, 11:30:43 AM
He has asked previously. I always ask when people just shout traaaade or GET A D-Man, because they tend to blame Dubas for not doing anything. People need to recognize the market that exists or does not exist. Situations can materialize down the road (injuries, positioning).

I have eyeballs for Rasmus Andersson or Pesce. Both Calgary and Carolina are looking for 2C, but if we bump Kadri, we need a good defensive 3C as part of the package.

Rumours have Stralman signing with the Panthers, that drops Mark Pysyk down to their 3rd pairing. If we could dump Ceci somewhere he'd be a guy I'd target.

Big Ceci fan, eh? 

What's the deal with this guy?...seems very polarizing.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:37:00 AM
Assuming the latter could occur, would it not be possible to have the room to sign Gardiner as plan "A"?

Hypothetically if Marner gets $10mil and we dump Ceci I think that we're very roughly at $75-76mil (with Horton on LTIR). So possible, but Gardiner would probably need to take a bit of a discount.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:37:48 AM
Big Ceci fan, eh? 

What's the deal with this guy?...seems very polarizing.

He's really just a Canadian Nikita Zaitsev.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:40:34 AM
Assuming the latter could occur, would it not be possible to have the room to sign Gardiner as plan "A"?

Hypothetically if Marner gets $10mil and we dump Ceci I think that we're very roughly at $75-76mil (with Horton on LTIR). So possible, but Gardiner would probably need to take a bit of a discount.

And again, very hypothetically, but if say, Kadri went for Pesce, we'd have an additional 500K, and the top 4 suddenly looks very, very serviceable.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 11:42:18 AM
And again, very hypothetically, but if say, Kadri went for Pesce, we'd have an additional 500K, and the top 4 suddenly looks very, very serviceable.

True. Let's keep in mind though that Kadri has a 10-team NTC though and Carolina is rumoured to be on it. He loves the team and loves the city, I can't see him being in a rush to waive that.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2019, 11:42:25 AM
Myers looks to be getting 6 million over 5 years.  How does he work as a comparable for Gardiner?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:42:58 AM
And again, very hypothetically, but if say, Kadri went for Pesce, we'd have an additional 500K, and the top 4 suddenly looks very, very serviceable.

True. Let's keep in mind though that Kadri has a 10-team NTC though and Carolina is rumoured to be on it. He loves the team and loves the city, I can't see him being in a rush to waive that.

Ah. Pin, meet balloon.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2019, 11:45:00 AM
Myers looks to be getting 6 million over 5 years.  How does he work as a comparable for Gardiner?

Gardiner is better, but size is often overrated in favour of Myers, and perhaps the back problems make a few clubs wary.

So yeah, 6M sounds close to me. Hopefully some magic can be worked for the leafs.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
Assuming the latter could occur, would it not be possible to have the room to sign Gardiner as plan "A"?

Hypothetically if Marner gets $10mil and we dump Ceci I think that we're very roughly at $75-76mil (with Horton on LTIR). So possible, but Gardiner would probably need to take a bit of a discount.

And again, very hypothetically, but if say, Kadri went for Pesce, we'd have an additional 500K, and the top 4 suddenly looks very, very serviceable.

I think something like this is going to occur.  Kadri is the most likely chip in some kind of deal that gets us a top-4 d-man.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2019, 11:46:38 AM
Big Ceci fan, eh? 

What's the deal with this guy?...seems very polarizing.

He's really just a Canadian Nikita Zaitsev.

Awesome. And we were really selling low on Zaitsev.

I don't much like the deal, so I hope there are other moves.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2019, 11:47:01 AM
And again, very hypothetically, but if say, Kadri went for Pesce, we'd have an additional 500K, and the top 4 suddenly looks very, very serviceable.

True. Let's keep in mind though that Kadri has a 10-team NTC though and Carolina is rumoured to be on it. He loves the team and loves the city, I can't see him being in a rush to waive that.

And his love of team won't be affected if he's approached with a trade to CAR?

These NTCs are much more restrictive in theory than in practice.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 01, 2019, 12:11:49 PM
Awesome. And we were really selling low on Zaitsev.

Much easier to sell one year of mediocrity than five.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 12:17:52 PM
Awesome. And we were really selling low on Zaitsev.

Much easier to sell one year of mediocrity than five.
+1
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 12:20:46 PM
There's literally no answer I can give you that you won't nitpick on either of those questions, even if I was to give you an answer that actually came to fruition 5 minutes later - so I'm not going to take the bait.

That's true in as much as the re's really no answer you can give that would be so universally obvious and advantageous to the Leafs as there's nothing wrong with it.

Take the Kadri for Pesce idea. Would that be a good deal for the Leafs to make? Maybe. Is it one they should consider if it's in front of them? Absolutely. Can they force Carolina to make that trade if they're not interested? No. Is the offer so good that Carolina would have no recourse but to accept? No.

I appreciate that making specific criticisms is a lot harder than just "STUPID DUBAS! MAKE THE DEFENSE GOODER!!!" and trying to avoid them when pressed by ducking the question is a solid attempt to seem reasonable but it's also fairly transparent.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 12:32:00 PM
Whens the Leafsens Uber video coming out?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Arn on July 01, 2019, 01:31:05 PM
I liked the narrative of Brown being a 6th round pick and becoming a solid player on his local/childhood team so from that point of view sad to see a solid honest player go. But he was overpaid for his role and hopefully will get a chance to take on a bigger role put in Ottawa and have a solid career
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 01:34:21 PM
I liked the narrative of Brown being a 6th round pick and becoming a solid player on his local/childhood team so from that point of view sad to see a solid honest player go. But he was overpaid for his role and hopefully will get a chance to take on a bigger role put in Ottawa and have a solid career
That's what the cap does. Good luck to Brown. Honest player. Funny Ceci is coming to the Leafs with the same kind of thing from Ottawa.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 01:36:13 PM

Brown is a hard working guy and in the right scenario could be a good #3 RW but it's just a numbers game when a team comes up with Nylander, Marner and Kapanen in short order.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 02:30:24 PM
O'Neil: "I don't think Zaitsev can do anything great"

Preach.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2019, 02:31:51 PM
O'Neil: "I don't think Zaitsev can do anything great"

Preach.

How can anyone argue that he can't sign a contract "great"?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 02:56:32 PM
O'Neil: "I don't think Zaitsev can do anything great"

Preach.
Truth
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Downtown on July 01, 2019, 03:10:43 PM
I like the trade but sad to see CB go. Time to start thinking up a new moniker.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: TML fan on July 01, 2019, 03:14:50 PM
I was hoping Brown would get a shot with Tavares in Hyman's absence. I feel bad for him because of how much he wanted to play for the Leafs, but cap space is cap space.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
Well enjoy Hyman while you can. He will be a casualty eventually too.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 03:44:53 PM

A project for the dev team, I.e. Ottawa sucks.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 03:54:25 PM

A project for the dev team, I.e. Ottawa sucks.
Yup. I think Ceci will be given a chance to play with a good partner.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 04:17:36 PM

Small wonder Melnyk has a bit of a complex about Toronto.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 01, 2019, 08:48:41 PM
Can we sign Ceci to a 1yr 4.5 with a 3M signing bonus, and then move him back to Ottawa? Or Anaheim for a pick/prospect?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:49:43 PM
Can we sign Ceci to a 1yr 4.5 with a 3M signing bonus, and then move him back to Ottawa? Or Anaheim for a pick/prospect?

The fact that the contract hasn't been officially announced yet intrigues me.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 01, 2019, 08:53:11 PM

From ESPN's winners and losers (https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27099321/winners-losers-first-day-nhl-free-agency):

Quote
Pierre Dorion
Look, we don't want to pile on the beleaguered general manager of the Ottawa Senators. We even made Pierre Dorion one of the big winners at the trade deadline! But his acquisition of defenseman Nikita Zaitsev from the Toronto Maple Leafs goes down as one of the most stupefying in recent memory. Zaitsev is an underwhelming player with a contract that's valued at $4.5 million against the cap through 2024. For the honor of taking on this toxic contract, the Senators gave the Maple Leafs a third-round pick. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. -- Wyshynski

Spoiler: This wasn't in the Winners section.

Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2019, 08:53:50 PM

From ESPN's winners and losers (https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/27099321/winners-losers-first-day-nhl-free-agency):

Quote
Pierre Dorion
Look, we don't want to pile on the beleaguered general manager of the Ottawa Senators. We even made Pierre Dorion one of the big winners at the trade deadline! But his acquisition of defenseman Nikita Zaitsev from the Toronto Maple Leafs goes down as one of the most stupefying in recent memory. Zaitsev is an underwhelming player with a contract that's valued at $4.5 million against the cap through 2024. For the honor of taking on this toxic contract, the Senators gave the Maple Leafs a third-round pick. That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works. -- Wyshynski

Spoiler: This wasn't in the Winners section.

I genuinely don't understand anyone disliking this deal from the Leafs POV.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 01, 2019, 09:36:37 PM
Can we sign Ceci to a 1yr 4.5 with a 3M signing bonus, and then move him back to Ottawa? Or Anaheim for a pick/prospect?

The fact that the contract hasn't been officially announced yet intrigues me.
Maybe he hasn't officially accepted the QO until he talks to the Leafs?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: disco on July 02, 2019, 10:20:46 AM
I like the trade but sad to see CB go. Time to start thinking up a new moniker.

You were the first poster I thought of when I heard DCB :D
Good luck Brownie!

Shedding $4.5 for the next 4 years for an unhappy under-achiever, even more-so when the Leafs are up against it, is huge. Combined with Marleau and Naz, Zaitsev and Brown, that's a lot of non-core dollars dumped. Well done Kyle.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: 93forever on July 02, 2019, 10:43:58 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bates on July 02, 2019, 10:45:51 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

Jamie Maclennan, who does a lot of Sens games, seems to think he can be a good 2nd pairing guy who moves the puck well and skates well. He thinks he will rebound nicely playing with a stable partner on a good team.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 02, 2019, 10:47:03 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

His possession numbers are straight up fugly.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Peter D. on July 02, 2019, 10:53:52 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: 93forever on July 02, 2019, 11:30:35 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 11:35:38 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.
I'm not totally sure but I don't think there's anything to prevent them from sending him to the Marlies if need be so they can bury his contract.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on July 02, 2019, 11:42:30 AM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.

Harpur seems to be pretty brutal also.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 12:29:01 PM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.

Harpur seems to be pretty brutal also.
Is he a victim of the Sens, or is he just bad? That's what the Leafs have to find out. He's a big boy though. I hope he can replace at least Marincin on the depth chart.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Highlander on July 02, 2019, 01:15:28 PM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.

Harpur seems to be pretty brutal also.
I would rather see Borgman as our 3rd LHD man.  He has some sandpaper and has made some amazing plays with the Marlies.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 02, 2019, 01:19:53 PM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.

Harpur seems to be pretty brutal also.

He literally looks like he's playing for the other team.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 02, 2019, 01:28:19 PM
Harpur shouldn't get a sniff at the NHL roster. The only element he has is size. He's terrible at everything else that helps win hockey games - to the point where he is actively negative. He's Andy Wozniewski. *shudders*
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 01:28:48 PM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

I honestly think what Ceci had most going for him is that he was from Ottawa.  He's like the Blue Jays' Dalton Pompey.

Beyond that, he's terrible.

And when the Leafs traded Phaneuf to Ottawa with Cowan coming back to the Leafs, me and my Senator friends couldn't figure out who won the trade.  We both thanked each other because our teams got rid of players we didn't want but didn't like what was coming back.  Harpur has potential to be decent, and maybe the Leafs can drop Ceci if he proves he is not that decent on d.

Harpur seems to be pretty brutal also.
I would rather see Borgman as our 3rd LHD man.  He has some sandpaper and has made some amazing plays with the Marlies.
I want to see Borgman as our 3rd line D as well. I really like his game. He played well for the Marlies.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 02, 2019, 01:50:35 PM
How likely is it that Cody Ceci becomes Toronto's whipping boy before he plays a single game here?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 01:59:25 PM
How likely is it that Cody Ceci becomes Toronto's whipping boy before he plays a single game here?

100% because he is already lol.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
How likely is it that Cody Ceci becomes Toronto's whipping boy before he plays a single game here?

I mean his contract and his reputation in Ottawa right off the bat isn't going to help him. As the season starts it'll depend on how Babcock uses him. If it's just 3rd pair + PK minutes he might perform ok, or his warts might be excused if he brings a physical presence to the team like Polak did. But if he gets used on the top/shutdown pair and has results like he did in Ottawa then things will probably get rough.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 02:17:36 PM
How likely is it that Cody Ceci becomes Toronto's whipping boy before he plays a single game here?

I mean his contract and his reputation in Ottawa right off the bat isn't going to help him. As the season starts it'll depend on how Babcock uses him. If it's just 3rd pair + PK minutes he might perform ok, or his warts might be excused if he brings a physical presence to the team like Polak did. But if he gets used on the top/shutdown pair and has results like he did in Ottawa then things will probably get rough.
I think with all healthy, Ceci os on the 3rd pairing. I can see Barrie with Muzzin and Dermott with Reilly.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Coco-puffs on July 02, 2019, 03:09:09 PM
Has anyone seen Ceci play?  Some Senator fans I know preferred Phaneuf over Ceci.  Hopefully he can get a new start here.

His possession numbers are straight up fugly.

Interestingly, his possession numbers are decent when paired with someone decent.  (Last year anyways)

Ceci + Chabot:  52%

Both were under 50% when away from each other.

Just playing DA here.  I don't expect him to be good, but I'd live with passable for 1 yr until a young guy can step in.  NOTE:  Not getting my hopes up.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: bustaheims on July 02, 2019, 03:36:09 PM
Interestingly, his possession numbers are decent when paired with someone decent.  (Last year anyways)

Ceci + Chabot:  52%

Both were under 50% when away from each other.

Just playing DA here.  I don't expect him to be good, but I'd live with passable for 1 yr until a young guy can step in.  NOTE:  Not getting my hopes up.

He has spent a lot of time on bad teams paired with poor possession players, so, I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being alright with some with better puck skills, etc. Also, not getting my hopes up, but, fingers crossed.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 04:08:09 PM
Interestingly, his possession numbers are decent when paired with someone decent.  (Last year anyways)

Ceci + Chabot:  52%

Both were under 50% when away from each other.

Just playing DA here.  I don't expect him to be good, but I'd live with passable for 1 yr until a young guy can step in.  NOTE:  Not getting my hopes up.

He has spent a lot of time on bad teams paired with poor possession players, so, I certainly wouldn't rule out the possibility of him being alright with some with better puck skills, etc. Also, not getting my hopes up, but, fingers crossed.
I think we should wait until we actually see him play and go from there. I think he gets put with Rielly as our 1B. Muzzin and Barrie are 1A.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2019, 04:34:53 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 04:37:52 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.
No surprise. Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bullfrog on July 02, 2019, 05:33:13 PM
I'm not totally sure but I don't think there's anything to prevent them from sending him to the Marlies if need be so they can bury his contract.

You can't bury more than $925K I think (number may have increased)
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 05:47:13 PM
I'm not totally sure but I don't think there's anything to prevent them from sending him to the Marlies if need be so they can bury his contract.

You can't bury more than $925K I think (number may have increased)
Thanks. I wasn't sure.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: AvroArrow on July 02, 2019, 05:48:00 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.

It also couldn't hurt to try see what he's capable of with quality partners, and, of course, try to raise his trade value ;)
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 02, 2019, 05:51:45 PM
I'm not totally sure but I don't think there's anything to prevent them from sending him to the Marlies if need be so they can bury his contract.

You can't bury more than $925K I think (number may have increased)

Its up to 1.075M now (league min + 0.375M)
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frank E on July 02, 2019, 05:59:56 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.

It also couldn't hurt to try see what he's capable of with quality partners, and, of course, try to raise his trade value ;)

Who was he playing with last year...I thought I read Chabot, no?
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 02, 2019, 06:07:52 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.

It also couldn't hurt to try see what he's capable of with quality partners, and, of course, try to raise his trade value ;)

Who was he playing with last year...I thought I read Chabot, no?

(https://www.hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/wowy/1819/OTT/cecixco93)

Max Lajoie (rookie) primarily at 5v5.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 02, 2019, 06:08:26 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.

It also couldn't hurt to try see what he's capable of with quality partners, and, of course, try to raise his trade value ;)

Who was he playing with last year...I thought I read Chabot, no?
At times and apparently their numbers were decent together but both worse when apart. From above....

Interestingly, his possession numbers are decent when paired with someone decent.  (Last year anyways)

Ceci + Chabot:  52%

Both were under 50% when away from each other.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Frank E on July 02, 2019, 06:24:03 PM

I guess this isn't particularly surprising, at least while Dermott is out. We'll see what happens after that.

It also couldn't hurt to try see what he's capable of with quality partners, and, of course, try to raise his trade value ;)

Who was he playing with last year...I thought I read Chabot, no?

(https://www.hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/wowy/1819/OTT/cecixco93)

Max Lajoie (rookie) primarily at 5v5.

Thank you, herman. 
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 02, 2019, 06:34:48 PM
No problem, Frank.

It really just shows how fun the Senators have been.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 02, 2019, 06:48:59 PM
No problem, Frank.

It really just shows how fun the Senators have been.

There's really no thanking the Senators enough. Taking Zaitsev is one thing but it was the terrible bungling of the Duchene stuff that gave Colorado Girard and Bowen which made Barrie expendable. Most of Toronto's off-season was made possible by virtue of them being dopes.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bates on July 02, 2019, 07:02:37 PM
No problem, Frank.

It really just shows how fun the Senators have been.

There's really no thanking the Senators enough. Taking Zaitsev is one thing but it was there terrible bungling of the Duchene stuff that gave Colorado Girard and Bowen which made Barrie expendable. Most of Toronto's off-season was made possible by virtue of them being dopes.

Some popular Twitter personality needs to post this so Melnyk can lose it.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on July 02, 2019, 07:05:18 PM
No problem, Frank.

It really just shows how fun the Senators have been.

There's really no thanking the Senators enough. Taking Zaitsev is one thing but it was there terrible bungling of the Duchene stuff that gave Colorado Girard and Bowen which made Barrie expendable. Most of Toronto's off-season was made possible by virtue of them being dopes.

Some popular Twitter personality needs to post this so Melnyk can lose it.

My favourite thing about all this was Melnyk talking about the Leafs D and then hiring the Leafs D coach and accquring 2 of the Leafs top 4 D.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 02, 2019, 07:42:19 PM
Montreal effing up their offersheet of Aho also opened the door for Colorado tompursue Kadri.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 03, 2019, 08:39:55 AM
In his conversation on Overdrive (https://www.tsn.ca/video/dubas-it-became-clear-that-moving-kadri-was-our-best-chance-to-improve-on-defence~1720836) yesterday Dubas mentioned that Ceci "has an arbitration case ahead of him" so it sounds like that report about his contract being pretty much done was incorrect.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on July 03, 2019, 08:42:57 AM
In his conversation on Overdrive (https://www.tsn.ca/video/dubas-it-became-clear-that-moving-kadri-was-our-best-chance-to-improve-on-defence~1720836) yesterday Dubas mentioned that Ceci "has an arbitration case ahead of him" so it sounds like that report about his contract being pretty much done was incorrect.

Interesting....
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 04, 2019, 11:19:06 AM
Who was he playing with last year...I thought I read Chabot, no?

Herman answered this already for this past season but I was curious to see who his primary partners were in other seasons.

18/19 Maxime Lajoie
17/18 Dion Phaneuf
16/17 Dion Phaneuf
15/16 Patrick Wiercioch
14/15 Jared Cowen
13/14 Chris Phillips

Like... wow. Phillips, Cowen, and Wiercioch were all out of the NHL 1-2 years after those seasons. We're all well aware of how Phaneuf's career has been the past few years. I'm 80% sure Lajoie isn't real. And in the 2nd half of his career he's been getting the toughest minutes on the sens.

I'm not trying to argue that Ceci is actually an effective defenceman or that he's not drastically overpaid. But I'm still hearing people say that he might be a downgrade from Zaitsev. Zaitsev's played with Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner his entire career and still sucked. If you combined all 5 of those defencemen together Voltron-style they still probably wouldn't come close to one of those two.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Deebo on July 04, 2019, 11:28:48 AM
No bonus per CapFriendly
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: mr grieves on July 04, 2019, 11:38:22 AM
No bonus per CapFriendly

Sign-and-trade dreams dead.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 04, 2019, 12:10:34 PM
I'm not trying to argue that Ceci is actually an effective defenceman or that he's not drastically overpaid. But I'm still hearing people say that he might be a downgrade from Zaitsev. Zaitsev's played with Morgan Rielly and Jake Gardiner his entire career and still sucked. If you combined all 5 of those defencemen together Voltron-style they still probably wouldn't come close to one of those two.

Zatisev + our best = Ceci with Ottawa's worst (who were worse than our worst), but younger.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 12:20:25 PM
Let's just watch and see how Ceci turns out. I'm optimistic he will be good. He's never played with any good on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: herman on July 04, 2019, 12:55:09 PM
Just going to tweet Ceci's height at Fenton until February...
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Bender on July 04, 2019, 01:23:27 PM
Let's just watch and see how Ceci turns out. I'm optimistic he will be good. He's never played with any good on a regular basis.

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/07/04/the-leafs-wont-be-able-to-fix-cody-ceci/
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 01:27:42 PM
Let's just watch and see how Ceci turns out. I'm optimistic he will be good. He's never played with any good on a regular basis.

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/07/04/the-leafs-wont-be-able-to-fix-cody-ceci/

And who is Thomas Williams? Again, let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: hap_leaf on July 04, 2019, 01:43:37 PM
Let's just watch and see how Ceci turns out. I'm optimistic he will be good. He's never played with any good on a regular basis.

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/07/04/the-leafs-wont-be-able-to-fix-cody-ceci/

And who is Thomas Williams? Again, let's see what happens.

Agreed, I'm going to withhold judgement and see for myself.  Possibly a new environment shakes him out of these examples in the article.  If he is as bad as described, he will be in the pressbox especially when Dermott is back.
Title: Re: Zaitsev and Brown traded to Ottawa
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 04, 2019, 01:46:19 PM
Let's just watch and see how Ceci turns out. I'm optimistic he will be good. He's never played with any good on a regular basis.

https://theleafsnation.com/2019/07/04/the-leafs-wont-be-able-to-fix-cody-ceci/

And who is Thomas Williams? Again, let's see what happens.

Agreed, I'm going to withhold judgement and see for myself.  Possibly a new environment shakes him out of these examples in the article.  If he is as bad as described, he will be in the pressbox especially when Dermott is back.
Leafs are taking a chance. Let's see if it works out.