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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 12:36:03 PM

Title: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 12:36:03 PM
?s=21


Oh baby!!

It's funny how all Leafs trade rumours are centered around bad Lamiorello contracts. I get that Zaitsev asked for a trade but still, the 2 deals we absolutely hate are Marleau and Zaitsev and now both are trade rumors.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: herman on May 31, 2019, 12:47:20 PM
STOP TEASING US
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: herman on May 31, 2019, 12:48:24 PM
I know I like to laugh at bad UFA signings every July, but for the most part, the GMs of the league participate in so much mutual backscratching that teams aren't really suffering for longer than 1-2 years. It's not worth the effort to fret.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 12:48:47 PM
STOP TEASING US


I had to share the good news. Yesterday Zaitsev today Marleau, what's next a Marner deal tomorrow?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: herman on May 31, 2019, 12:50:47 PM
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on May 31, 2019, 12:59:09 PM
Looking at their cap, it looks like the kings can afford to take on Marleau without moving anything.

They have 11M with a 19 man roster and no significant RFAs to sign.

At the very least, this tells us that the team is exploring ways to move Marleau. I wonder if that means they have had some conversations with him about waiving his NMC.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 31, 2019, 01:02:28 PM
I doubt he waives... but getting rid of Zaitsev and Marleau in the same offseason would be like David Clarkson Day all over again.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on May 31, 2019, 01:15:10 PM
I doubt he waives... but getting rid of Zaitsev and Marleau in the same offseason would be like David Clarkson Day all over again.

It wouldn't shock me. There's been a fair amount of speculation that he'd be open to a trade that sends him back to the west coast. LA likely being terrible next season does complicate things, but, I can see it happening.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 31, 2019, 01:22:49 PM
It wouldn't shock me. There's been a fair amount of speculation that he'd be open to a trade that sends him back to the west coast. LA likely being terrible next season does complicate things, but, I can see it happening.

I think it does a little more than just complicate things. We're talking about a guy who's had a Hall-of-very-good career and almost certainly has just one more shot at winning the Cup before he has to retire. A trade back to San Jose I could understand, but a bottom-feeder like LA just seems way too unlikely. But I guess we'll see.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on May 31, 2019, 01:22:59 PM
Mirtle on Zaitsev/Marleau


Yes, there's a link to paywall site.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Chris on May 31, 2019, 01:27:35 PM
It wouldn't shock me. There's been a fair amount of speculation that he'd be open to a trade that sends him back to the west coast. LA likely being terrible next season does complicate things, but, I can see it happening.

I think it does a little more than just complicate things. We're talking about a guy who's had a Hall-of-very-good career and almost certainly has just one more shot at winning the Cup before he has to retire. A trade back to San Jose I could understand, but a bottom-feeder like LA just seems way too unlikely. But I guess we'll see.

Will be very interesting to see what comes of this. Maybe Marleau realizes that his contract is going to have a significant negative impact on the Leafs chances to win a cup in his final year. Spending those 6 mil on the defense would greatly increase their chances. But LA...at least he'll play everyday and won't be stuck on the 4th line. Maybe he then gets moved at the deadline to a contender.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 31, 2019, 01:47:04 PM
Maybe he then gets moved at the deadline to a contender.
Maybe back to the Leafs lol. We all know LA was a bottom feeder this season but are they really that bad of a team? Quick was injured for quite a bit if I recall. Not sure if they'll contend for a playoff spot or not but we know things can turn around quickly in this league. It's an interesting scenario though. I would think the Leafs would have to retain some of his salary.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on May 31, 2019, 01:54:09 PM
Maybe back to the Leafs lol. We all know LA was a bottom feeder this season but are they really that bad of a team? Quick was injured for quite a bit if I recall. Not sure if they'll contend for a playoff spot or not but we know things can turn around quickly in this league. It's an interesting scenario though. I would think the Leafs would have to retain some of his salary.

Quick actually put up worse numbers than their backups last season. Injury might have played into that, but, sometimes, goalies fall off quickly once they get into their 30s. But, outside of that, they don't have a ton of offensive depth, and the quality of their blueline drops off quite dramatically after Doughty and Martinez. so, yes, without some significant changes, they'll be bad next season.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 02:06:50 PM
I doubt he waives... but getting rid of Zaitsev and Marleau in the same offseason would be like David Clarkson Day all over again.

Yeah it sounded like a pipe dream to me as well.  Like of all teams why would Marleau choose to go to an aging LA team that has no realistic shot at winning anything?  If it were San Jose or Vegas I could see it, but LA?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 31, 2019, 02:07:35 PM
Maybe back to the Leafs lol. We all know LA was a bottom feeder this season but are they really that bad of a team? Quick was injured for quite a bit if I recall. Not sure if they'll contend for a playoff spot or not but we know things can turn around quickly in this league. It's an interesting scenario though. I would think the Leafs would have to retain some of his salary.

Quick actually put up worse numbers than their backups last season. Injury might have played into that, but, sometimes, goalies fall off quickly once they get into their 30s. But, outside of that, they don't have a ton of offensive depth, and the quality of their blueline drops off quite dramatically after Doughty and Martinez. so, yes, without some significant changes, they'll be bad next season.
Thx. I was just looking over their roster and it isn't pretty.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 02:14:35 PM
Maybe back to the Leafs lol. We all know LA was a bottom feeder this season but are they really that bad of a team? Quick was injured for quite a bit if I recall. Not sure if they'll contend for a playoff spot or not but we know things can turn around quickly in this league. It's an interesting scenario though. I would think the Leafs would have to retain some of his salary.

Quick actually put up worse numbers than their backups last season. Injury might have played into that, but, sometimes, goalies fall off quickly once they get into their 30s. But, outside of that, they don't have a ton of offensive depth, and the quality of their blueline drops off quite dramatically after Doughty and Martinez. so, yes, without some significant changes, they'll be bad next season.
Thx. I was just looking over their roster and it isn't pretty.

Maybe it's LA's idea of a tank?  Marleau's best days are behind him. LA goes for last overall, trades Doughty at the deadline, gets good chance at first overall?  I mean you only have to put up with Marleau for 1 season.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on May 31, 2019, 02:50:51 PM
I doubt he waives... but getting rid of Zaitsev and Marleau in the same offseason would be like David Clarkson Day all over again.

In this case, I just don't think the Leafs would bother talking to other teams if they haven't had a conversation with Marleau about it.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on May 31, 2019, 02:52:45 PM
I doubt he waives... but getting rid of Zaitsev and Marleau in the same offseason would be like David Clarkson Day all over again.

In this case, I just don't think the Leafs would bother talking to other teams if they haven't had a conversation with Marleau about it.

That's a fair point.  Marleau might have already indicated which if any teams he's willing to waive for and Dubas is working around that.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 31, 2019, 03:03:24 PM
In this case, I just don't think the Leafs would bother talking to other teams if they haven't had a conversation with Marleau about it.

I think generally speaking teams negotiate trades first and check with NTCs later. Why have the awkward conversation with Marleau about waiving his (and essentially telling him the club doesn't want him anymore) only to find out that no teams are interested. And of course if that's the case then Dubas probably isn't too thrilled this was leaked.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on May 31, 2019, 03:25:40 PM
I think generally speaking teams negotiate trades first and check with NTCs later. Why have the awkward conversation with Marleau about waiving his (and essentially telling him the club doesn't want him anymore) only to find out that no teams are interested. And of course if that's the case then Dubas probably isn't too thrilled this was leaked.

Yeah, I remember Burke saying he operated that way but I don't think everyone necessarily does things the same way.

With this case, where Marleau is probably fully aware of the cap situation with the Leafs, I'm don't think it would be too awkward a conversation to ask if he was open to a move.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on May 31, 2019, 03:52:23 PM
I think generally speaking teams negotiate trades first and check with NTCs later. Why have the awkward conversation with Marleau about waiving his (and essentially telling him the club doesn't want him anymore) only to find out that no teams are interested. And of course if that's the case then Dubas probably isn't too thrilled this was leaked.

In most cases, I'd agree, but, Marleau is a veteran, and a smart guy. He can read the writing on the wall. He understands the Leafs' cap position, and that Dubas needs to be able to explore all possible options. I'm sure it would have been framed as such, and that Patty would understand that doesn't mean he's not wanted, but, that the business side of the game sometimes forces teams to move players they'd otherwise like to keep around.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 31, 2019, 07:10:34 PM

The other thing is that Marleau is probably realistic about his spot on the team. If the Leafs have three guys at LW they're maybe more excited about than him(and with Hyman, Johnsson and Moore, they do) then he has to be open to the reality that he could be a 4th line/potential press box guy next year.

But just in general I think that there's a natural inclination for someone to not want to stay somewhere he's not particularly wanted. I know people tend to invoke when Sundin and Tucker didn't waive their deals but I think there's a big difference between "the team wants to actually use other players on our roster in your spot" and "we think it's in the organization's best long term interests to sell you for parts".
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 31, 2019, 07:51:48 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive. 
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on May 31, 2019, 08:20:18 PM
Lebrun just did a Insider Trading segment where he says "We believe that he would open to waiving it for a trade to the LA Kings."

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider-trading-leafs-and-kings-have-discussed-potential-marleau-deal~1696554
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: herman on May 31, 2019, 08:36:37 PM
The NHLs retirement home
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on May 31, 2019, 09:22:20 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

Hes not wanted by the fans. Im not convinced hes not wanted by management. His contract isnt, but the player and the person? Id think theyd be happy to have him around.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 31, 2019, 09:55:21 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

Hes not wanted by the fans. Im not convinced hes not wanted by management. His contract isnt, but the player and the person? Id think theyd be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: princedpw on May 31, 2019, 10:05:00 PM
Im trying to figure out what kind of deal would make sense for the kings.  The closest thing I could come up with would be something like Marleau for Phaneuf with the Kings retaining 2.125 million of Phaneufs deal.

Phaneuf has a cap hit of 5.25 for this season and next.
Marleau has 6.25 this year.

Cap hit wise:
Kings: 8.375 in 2019; 2.125 in 2020 (10.25 total)
Leafs: 3.125 in 2019; 3.125 in 2020

What this does is it avoids changing the total cap hit paid by either team.  For Toronto, it spreads Marleaus hit over 2 years instead of one.  For the kings, they take an increase of 3.125 hit this year, but maybe they are tanking and so dont care that much and save 3.125 the following year when they can begin to ramp up again.

If the deal is made after Marleaus first bonus is paid then the Kings save a little real money too.

The money saved this year should be enough to give marner, kappy and Johnsson reasonable deals.  Probably not enough slack to upgrade the right side D.  Can Phaneuf play on the right?  Is he viable as a 3rd pairing guy?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 31, 2019, 10:31:12 PM
Can Phaneuf play on the right?  Is he viable as a 3rd pairing guy?
Phaneuf played mostly on the right side with the Leafs if memory serves.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: IJustLurkHere on June 01, 2019, 08:22:49 AM

The other thing is that Marleau is probably realistic about his spot on the team. If the Leafs have three guys at LW they're maybe more excited about than him(and with Hyman, Johnsson and Moore, they do) then he has to be open to the reality that he could be a 4th line/potential press box guy next year.

But just in general I think that there's a natural inclination for someone to not want to stay somewhere he's not particularly wanted. I know people tend to invoke when Sundin and Tucker didn't waive their deals but I think there's a big difference between "the team wants to actually use other players on our roster in your spot" and "we think it's in the organization's best long term interests to sell you for parts".

I like the logic... but, it feels like a story I tell myself to pursuade myself its all going to turn out the way thats best for me.

Back when Marleau signed this deal, everyone said I wish it had been for 2 years instead of 3 with exactly this in mind. The catch was, he was only interested with the guaranteed 3rd year because he too could see this exact scenario playing out.

The Leafs arent going to ruthlessly oust him because hes well loved by the players(and if we want credibility negotiating with the likes of Marner, trying to weasel out of obligations to his friends isnt a great way to get it). Hes not going to volunteer for re-assignment, because this is exactly why he wanted year 3 - Marleau is more likely to accept a 4th line role in a contending Leafs than a retirement home.

Better of seeking our cap space for next year elsewhere.

Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 01, 2019, 09:14:00 AM
Back when Marleau signed this deal, everyone said I wish it had been for 2 years instead of 3 with exactly this in mind. The catch was, he was only interested with the guaranteed 3rd year because he too could see this exact scenario playing out.

I think it's unlikely that when he made the third year a major point of negotiation that his thought process was "If my career starts reaching its natural conclusion, I want to be a Maple Leaf no matter what" rather than "I want to guarantee myself the most money possible".

The Leafs arent going to ruthlessly oust him because hes well loved by the players(and if we want credibility negotiating with the likes of Marner, trying to weasel out of obligations to his friends isnt a great way to get it). Hes not going to volunteer for re-assignment, because this is exactly why he wanted year 3 - Marleau is more likely to accept a 4th line role in a contending Leafs than a retirement home.

I'm not sure what credibility you think the Leafs need with Marner but I don't think there's anything ruthless or weaselly about asking Marleau what his preference is for next year if both he and the team are realistic about his place on the depth chart.

Marleau wanted the money a third year would guarantee him and via the NMC he wanted control over where he plays. There's really nothing to suggest that the one thing he wanted was to play for a contender considering he signed with a team coming off a year where they finished dead last in the league.

But even if that weren't true and his only goal was to be a Leaf, things can change in a couple years time. His family may not like the winters here, he may miss stuff out west...who knows? I didn't say he's definitely going to be traded, just that I think he's going to be realistic about what his role will be going forward and people have a natural inclination to not want to stay where they're not particularly wanted and I think the rumblings about the Leafs exploring a deal(which I don't think we'd hear if Marleau was deadset against a trade) speaks to that.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: L K on June 01, 2019, 12:36:55 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

Hes not wanted by the fans. Im not convinced hes not wanted by management. His contract isnt, but the player and the person? Id think theyd be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

That's pretty stupid public management.  Marleau left an organization that would have been happy to have him back to come to Toronto.  They weren't forced to give him a 3rd year.  They weren't forced to sign him to a 6 million dollar contract.  They did it willingly and not being happy with the decline in his play when we all knew that this was the most likely outcome is on management.  Publicly shaming him to try and get him to waive his NTC isn't going to happen.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Bates on June 01, 2019, 03:14:39 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

Hes not wanted by the fans. Im not convinced hes not wanted by management. His contract isnt, but the player and the person? Id think theyd be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

That's pretty stupid public management.  Marleau left an organization that would have been happy to have him back to come to Toronto.  They weren't forced to give him a 3rd year.  They weren't forced to sign him to a 6 million dollar contract.  They did it willingly and not being happy with the decline in his play when we all knew that this was the most likely outcome is on management.  Publicly shaming him to try and get him to waive his NTC isn't going to happen.

The team doesn't have to, the media and online fans are doing it just fine.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on June 01, 2019, 03:25:07 PM
I have to disagree, busta: Marleau knows he's not wanted in Toronto anymore.  Nik's right here, I think.  Marleau's not naive.

Hes not wanted by the fans. Im not convinced hes not wanted by management. His contract isnt, but the player and the person? Id think theyd be happy to have him around.

If he's not not wanted (yikes) by management then they should say so directly.  Or, alternatively, riffing off of Bob Mueller the other day, say something like "If we had confidence that the decline in Patty's game clearly does not warrant his vetoing a trade we would have said so."

Maybe they have. We have no idea what conversations were had in private. Theres no need for it to be public.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Frank E on June 01, 2019, 03:43:26 PM
It's Dubas' job to have that conversation, given the implications.

I sure as hell hope he's spoken with Marleau about it.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on June 01, 2019, 07:29:48 PM
It's Dubas' job to have that conversation, given the implications.

I sure as hell hope he's spoken with Marleau about it.

I'm confident he has.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 01, 2019, 10:14:33 PM
Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Bender on June 01, 2019, 10:49:31 PM
Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.
He just isn't a fit. I think he knows that he just can't hack it anymore with better options on the wings already there.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Rob on June 01, 2019, 10:56:18 PM
Everything's coming up Dubas!
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: lamajama on June 01, 2019, 11:12:58 PM
Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.
He just isn't a fit. I think he knows that he just can't hack it anymore with better options on the wings already there.

I wonder how much attention he pays to his consecutive games streak because if I were him, I'd be thinking I'm not playing 82 games if I stay in Toronto
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: herman on June 01, 2019, 11:13:41 PM
Kypreos just said that Marleau's family is moving back to San Jose, and he wants to move somewhere close to that. Mentioned Arizona, Colorado, and LA as potential landing spots. Said the Leafs might have to retain $1mil or so.

Like Zaitsev, this somewhat surprisingly seems now like it's a mutual desire to part ways.

What sorcery is this
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 02, 2019, 12:07:49 AM
Kypreos sounded pretty sure of himself, but of course pundits are paid to sound like that.

What's fishy to me about what he said is the landing spots.  None of them make sense.  LA is an archrival of SJ ... does that make sense?  AZ never makes sense on any level.  Functionally speaking, Colorado is not really much closer to SJ than Toronto, in terms of popping in to see the fam. 

If the goal is to win a Cup, none of these places has a better chance to win than San Jose.  If we retain some salary and ask for essentially nothing in return, I think if he does waive to go back West the best chance is that he goes back there for one last fling with Thornton & Co.


Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 02, 2019, 01:10:03 AM
Marleau listed LA as a landing spot that hed welcome a trade to so it isn't a surprise to see them listed. If the Leafs could trade Marleau and retain 1 mill only, thats would be a huge win.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 02, 2019, 05:02:37 AM
Kypreos sounded pretty sure of himself, but of course pundits are paid to sound like that.

What's fishy to me about what he said is the landing spots.  None of them make sense.  LA is an archrival of SJ ... does that make sense?  AZ never makes sense on any level.  Functionally speaking, Colorado is not really much closer to SJ than Toronto, in terms of popping in to see the fam. 

Kypreos: Marleau's family is moving back to SJ and Marleau would like to play somewhere close to there.

ZZBM: How can we crack this code of potential West coast landing spots?

And I'm not sure what function you're speaking of but there doesn't seem to be any direct flights from Toronto to San Jose and the shortest trip is roughly seven and a half hours with a transfer. Denver does have non-stop service to San Jose in two and a half hours.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: princedpw on June 02, 2019, 06:30:58 AM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 02, 2019, 06:54:35 AM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Important to keep in mind that in terms of actual dollars if he's traded post-July 1st he's only owed 2.75. Which really isn't actually all that out of whack for his production and all those top-notch leadershippy intangibles he brings. If the team he's being traded to is in no real danger of hitting the cap, which seems to apply to most of the teams we're talking about as potential destinations, then his contract may not be all that much of a negative.

Especially if he's open to being dealt at the deadline should his team be out of it.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Dappleganger on June 02, 2019, 09:55:22 AM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Important to keep in mind that in terms of actual dollars if he's traded post-July 1st he's only owed 2.75. Which really isn't actually all that out of whack for his production and all those top-notch leadershippy intangibles he brings. If the team he's being traded to is in no real danger of hitting the cap, which seems to apply to most of the teams we're talking about as potential destinations, then his contract may not be all that much of a negative.

Especially if he's open to being dealt at the deadline should his team be out of it.

If the Leafs were to retain $1m of Marleaus contract, how would that work in terms of actual money spent and whats left on the cap hit?

Does his cap hit go down to $5.25m but actually money left to pay goes down to $1.75m?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on June 02, 2019, 10:41:53 AM
If the Leafs were to retain $1m of Marleaus contract, how would that work in terms of actual money spent and whats left on the cap hit?

Does his cap hit go down to $5.25m but actually money left to pay goes down to $1.75m?

The Leafs would pay the equivalent percentage of his remaining salary - so, roughly $450K.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 02, 2019, 10:44:42 AM
Kypreos sounded pretty sure of himself, but of course pundits are paid to sound like that.

What's fishy to me about what he said is the landing spots.  None of them make sense.  LA is an archrival of SJ ... does that make sense?  AZ never makes sense on any level.  Functionally speaking, Colorado is not really much closer to SJ than Toronto, in terms of popping in to see the fam. 

Kypreos: Marleau's family is moving back to SJ and Marleau would like to play somewhere close to there.

ZZBM: How can we crack this code of potential West coast landing spots?

And I'm not sure what function you're speaking of but there doesn't seem to be any direct flights from Toronto to San Jose and the shortest trip is roughly seven and a half hours with a transfer. Denver does have non-stop service to San Jose in two and a half hours.

Hey, take your fellow Nick's word for it.  He did say it while wearing a suit on a Saturday night, so it does check those credibility boxes.  Heck, he might even be right.

And thanks for playing travel agent.  I think I'll stick to my POV here, since by the time you add in ground transfers (Denver airport is 20 miles out of town, SJ has some of the worst traffic in the country), you are looking at 7-8 hours r/t door to door.  Marleau may end up in Denver, but not because it'll be vastly more super-convenient to visit his family.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 02, 2019, 10:53:43 AM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Who says other GMs see him as a 4th line player? On a 100-point team he was 5th among forwards in 5-on-5 ice time and 6th in total average ice time and he recorded just under 40 points. In the playoffs he dropped to 8th in ice time per game, but that's still 3rd line minutes.

Much like any potential Zaitsev trade talk, let's remember that GMs don't always see performance like we do. To some GM Zaitsev is a minute-eating top-4 RHD. To some GM Marleau is a middle-6 forward who can put up 40 points and has intangibles coming out his butt. It'll certainly take some salary retention but it wouldn't surprise me to see another GM want him on their team, especially since the Leafs won't be looking for much/anything back in return.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 02, 2019, 11:03:30 AM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Who says other GMs see him as a 4th line player? On a 100-point team he was 5th among forwards in 5-on-5 ice time and 6th in total average ice time and he recorded just under 40 points. In the playoffs he dropped to 8th in ice time per game, but that's still 3rd line minutes.

Much like any potential Zaitsev trade talk, let's remember that GMs don't always see performance like we do. To some GM Zaitsev is a minute-eating top-4 RHD. To some GM Marleau is a middle-6 forward who can put up 40 points and has intangibles coming out his butt. It'll certainly take some salary retention but it wouldn't surprise me to see another GM want him on their team, especially since the Leafs won't be looking for much/anything back in return.

When did Kyle Dubas seize control of your account?  ;)
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 02, 2019, 11:12:13 AM
When did Kyle Dubas seize control of your account?  ;)

Hey I've been saying "NHL GMs are idiots" since before people knew who Dubas was.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 02, 2019, 11:18:33 AM
And thanks for playing travel agent.  I think I'll stick to my POV here, since by the time you add in ground transfers (Denver airport is 20 miles out of town, SJ has some of the worst traffic in the country), you are looking at 7-8 hours r/t door to door.  Marleau may end up in Denver, but not because it'll be vastly more super-convenient to visit his family.

San Jose's traffic is something he'd have to deal with regardless of where he's flying in from and Google has a shorter trip from downtown Denver to their airport than Toronto and Pearson so even if you're right you're still probably talking about 7-8 hours vs. 17-18 hours. If you don't think 10 hours travel time is a significant difference, god bless, but I know which commute I'd rather go with.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 02, 2019, 11:22:53 AM
It'll certainly take some salary retention but it wouldn't surprise me to see another GM want him on their team, especially since the Leafs won't be looking for much/anything back in return.

If Colorado or LA or Arizona are legitimately interested they may ask for the Leafs to retain but looking at their cap situations they probably wouldn't be doing it out of necessity. Unless they're planning on being big players in the UFA market Marleau they definitely could eat his cap hit and get a better deal from the Leafs for it.

Colorado's cap situation, even accounting for the Rantanen deal, is pretty crazy. They could do all sorts of things this off-season.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on June 02, 2019, 11:35:20 AM
Just being in the western conference means he would be spending much more time in the Mountain or Pacific time zones, which makes things easier to be in contact over the phone/skype.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: princedpw on June 02, 2019, 01:48:48 PM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Important to keep in mind that in terms of actual dollars if he's traded post-July 1st he's only owed 2.75. Which really isn't actually all that out of whack for his production and all those top-notch leadershippy intangibles he brings. If the team he's being traded to is in no real danger of hitting the cap, which seems to apply to most of the teams we're talking about as potential destinations, then his contract may not be all that much of a negative.

Especially if he's open to being dealt at the deadline should his team be out of it.

Good point. Of course, if I were one of the other teams looking to bring him on, I know I dont really need him and Im pretty confident the leafs are desperate to unload salary so Im going to extract a price from them.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: princedpw on June 02, 2019, 02:25:47 PM
This is certainly a positive development but how are they going to make a trade work?  What are the other teams going to give us for our $6.5 mill 4th liner? Ideas?

Who says other GMs see him as a 4th line player? On a 100-point team he was 5th among forwards in 5-on-5 ice time and 6th in total average ice time and he recorded just under 40 points. In the playoffs he dropped to 8th in ice time per game, but that's still 3rd line minutes.

As much as Id like to believe it, I just dont think other GMs are that dumb. Look at Marleaus scoring trend over the last 3 years (recall the number of empty netter he got the prior year).  Hes played a lot of time with high-end talent (Matthews, Kadri) and relatively sheltered minutes. Hes going to be 40 and hes undergoing the normal trend for players of that age, which means another step down next year in all likelihood.

Throw in the fact that the other teams know that the leafs are squeezed and desperate for cap relief and other teams will rightfully exploit that.

Quote
Much like any potential Zaitsev trade talk, let's remember that GMs don't always see performance like we do. To some GM Zaitsev is a minute-eating top-4 RHD. To some GM Marleau is a middle-6 forward who can put up 40 points and has intangibles coming out his butt. It'll certainly take some salary retention but it wouldn't surprise me to see another GM want him on their team, especially since the Leafs won't be looking for much/anything back in return.

With Zaitsev, I can buy it, because hes 27, plays the toughest possible minutes and he does have some strengths as a defenseman. Hes also at a premium position where theres a league-wide shortage.  There are most definitely more teams needing RHD than UFAs available.  If Zaitsev was a UFA, it wouldnt shock me at all if someone paid $4.5/year for 5 years.  In a climbing cap world, his contract will get cheaper and cheaper.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 06, 2019, 11:48:39 AM

Anyone here looking to buy some property in Toronto?
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: louisstamos on June 06, 2019, 11:50:57 AM

Anyone here looking to buy some property in Toronto?

It's tough to know for sure, but I have a feeling a trade is already done - they're just waiting to pay his July 1st signing bonus.

I'm no insider, though. :P
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 06, 2019, 11:53:42 AM
It's tough to know for sure, but I have a feeling a trade is already done - they're just waiting to pay his July 1st signing bonus.

I'm no insider, though. :P

Maybe. With his family going back to San Jose regardless though that house/mansion/castle sure would have felt pretty empty. Even if he ends up staying I'd imagine he'd want to sell that and move into something a touch smaller. Properties like that also aren't the easiest to sell so it might take a little while.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: cabber24 on June 06, 2019, 12:13:39 PM
Kind of feel bad for him until I looked at his house listing... he is going to be fine.

In hindsight, I am very surprised at how this played out. The family plotline during his stay here led me to believe he was 1000% committed to seeing this through. Did the team steer him away? Did he simply sign here because of $? Was he mislead that he would be given an opportunity to win here? Did his play dictate this move? I am guessing it's a combination of all of the above.

The only fit I see is PHX, a self-imposed cap with lot's of cap space and a Marleau at $1.5M real dollars is a decent value.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on June 06, 2019, 12:17:16 PM
Kind of feel bad for him until I looked at his house listing... he is going to be fine.

In hindsight, I am very surprised at how this played out. The family plotline during his stay here led me to believe he was 1000% committed to seeing this through. Did the team steer him away? Did he simply sign here because of $? Was he mislead that he would be given an opportunity to win here? Did his play dictate this move? I am guessing it's a combination of all of the above.

The only fit I see is PHX, a self imposed cap with lot's of cap space and a Marleau at $1.5M real dollars is a decent value, could be less than $1.5M if the Leafs retain any.

Coyotes don't have a lot of cap space, they have 74M commited
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Zee on June 06, 2019, 12:25:30 PM
I wouldn't be able to afford the property tax on that mansion nevermind the place itself. Maybe Marner can buy it after he signs for a quadrillion a year.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 06, 2019, 12:45:04 PM
It's tough to know for sure, but I have a feeling a trade is already done - they're just waiting to pay his July 1st signing bonus.

I'm no insider, though. :P

Maybe. With his family going back to San Jose regardless though that house/mansion/castle sure would have felt pretty empty. Even if he ends up staying I'd imagine he'd want to sell that and move into something a touch smaller. Properties like that also aren't the easiest to sell so it might take a little while.

The thing this says to me is that whatever professional aims Marleau had in signing here, the personal ones didn't really work out. Buying a house like that, doing custom work on it and moving his family out here is a pretty serious thing that goes beyond just playing the real estate game.

That's ok. His family are west coast people and for whatever reason living here just didn't work out. Toronto's not for everyone.

But I think this speaks to why people obsessing over things like LA's title chances are missing the mark so badly. I don't think this move is one done lightly. I think this represents a real shift for Marleau in terms of what he had planned and so he's probably going to let professional considerations maybe take a back seat to other things in what probably figures to be his last year in the league.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 06, 2019, 01:08:18 PM
The thing this says to me is that whatever professional aims Marleau had in signing here, the personal ones didn't really work out. Buying a house like that, doing custom work on it and moving his family out here is a pretty serious thing that goes beyond just playing the real estate game.

When he originally signed I wonder if he thought him and his family would be staying in Toronto for awhile even after his contract expired. Like you said, buying that house thinking you'd only stay there for max 3 years seems a little odd.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 06, 2019, 01:12:49 PM
When he originally signed I wonder if he thought him and his family would be staying in Toronto for awhile even after his contract expired. Like you said, buying that house thinking you'd only stay there for max 3 years seems a little odd.

Yeah, like you said, the thing about properties like that(not that I have first hand experience) is that selling them isn't quite like selling other things in what is usually a crazy hot housing market. People who have 10+ million to spend on a home tend to be pretty particular about what they want and it can take a long time to match buyer and seller(and frequently with asking prices getting lowered).

To me, that says something went awry.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on June 06, 2019, 01:21:53 PM
The house was also on the market in October 2018 for 92 days, according to a realtor friend of mine.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Rob on June 06, 2019, 01:32:31 PM
I wouldn't be able to afford the property tax on that mansion nevermind the place itself. Maybe Marner can buy it after he signs for a quadrillion quintillion a year.

Paul Marner edited your post.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 06, 2019, 01:51:50 PM
The house was also on the market in October 2018 for 92 days, according to a realtor friend of mine.

Definitely possible if the plan was maybe to move this summer regardless.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on June 06, 2019, 02:06:28 PM
The house was also on the market in October 2018 for 92 days, according to a realtor friend of mine.

Not surprising. There's been talk about Marleau's family wanting to move back to San Jose for a while now.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 06, 2019, 02:16:31 PM
The only fit I see is PHX, a self-imposed cap with lot's of cap space and a Marleau at $1.5M real dollars is a decent value.

I'm pretty sure it would be 2.75, not 1.5. People were saying Marleau's signing bonus is in two installments. One on July 1st and the other in December.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: bustaheims on June 07, 2019, 04:04:43 PM
Coyotes don't have a lot of cap space, they have 74M commited

~$5.3M of that is Hossa, who is LTIR-bound. None of their RFAs are going to command big money, and, after that, they have an almost complete roster. They have the room. It's really more of a questions of whether or not they'd be willing to basically forego the UFA market (or, more likely, if they strike out in the UFA market).
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: Deebo on June 07, 2019, 04:50:41 PM
Coyotes don't have a lot of cap space, they have 74M commited

~$5.3M of that is Hossa, who is LTIR-bound. None of their RFAs are going to command big money, and, after that, they have an almost complete roster. They have the room. It's really more of a questions of whether or not they'd be willing to basically forego the UFA market (or, more likely, if they strike out in the UFA market).

I was more talking about how they don't need to take on a large cap hit to help get to the floor, but I guess that wasn't what was suggested.
Title: Re: Marleau being shopped around
Post by: princedpw on June 08, 2019, 12:52:10 PM
Coyotes don't have a lot of cap space, they have 74M commited

~$5.3M of that is Hossa, who is LTIR-bound. None of their RFAs are going to command big money, and, after that, they have an almost complete roster. They have the room. It's really more of a questions of whether or not they'd be willing to basically forego the UFA market (or, more likely, if they strike out in the UFA market).

There are also quite a number of other teams that can use that cap space: Vegas, Calgary, Winnipeg, Tampa,  ...

This could be the year bidding for cap space becomes just about as exciting as bidding for free agents