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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Marlies & Prospect Talk => Topic started by: herman on April 30, 2019, 11:00:19 AM

Title: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on April 30, 2019, 11:00:19 AM
Top 25 under 25 (by Sept 15, 2019) should be launching towards the end of July.
Check out last season's thread (https://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=5010.0) to see the changes in our pipeline. As I'm posting this well in advance of the Draft and associated transactions, this post is malleable.

Edit: Draft picks added; trade components added

2019 Eligible:2019's list2018's list
Aaron Luchuk
Adam Brooks
Alexander Kerfoot
Andreas Borgman traded
Andreas Johnsson
Auston Matthews
Ben Harpur
Dakota Joshua traded
Dmytro Timashov
Eemeli Rasanen
Egor Korshkov
Fabrice Herzog
Fedor Gordeev Traded
Filip Kral
Frederik Gauthier
Gabriel Gagné not qualified
Ian Scott
Ilya Mikheyev
JD Greenway
Jeremy Bracco
Jesper Lindgren
JJ Piccinich
Jordan Subban not qualified
Joseph Duszak
Joseph Woll
Justin Brazeau*
Kalle Loponen
Kasimir Kaskisuo
Kasperi Kapanen
Mac Hollowell
Martins Dzierkals
Mason Marchment
Michael Carcone traded
Mike Koster
Mikhail Abramov
Mikko Kokkonen
Mitch Marner
Nic Petan
Nicholas Abruzzese
Nicholas Baptiste not qualified
Nicholas Robertson
Nikolai Chebykin
Pierre Engvall
Pontus Holmberg
Rasmus Sandin
Riley Stotts
Ryan McGregor
Ryan O'Connell
Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
Semyon Kizimov
Teemu Kivihalme
Timothy Liljegren
Travis Dermott
Trevor Moore
Vladimir Boblyev
Vladislav Kara
William Nylander
Zachary Bouthillier

25. Joseph Duszak (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/29/8932858/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-duszak-maple-leafs-prospects-mercyhurst-hockey-ncaa)
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)
23. Mason Marchment (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/31/20729806/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-mason-marchment-toronto-marlies-roster-maple-leafs-roster)
22. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/1/20730219/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-maple-leads-prospects-semyon-der-arguchintsev-peterborough-petes)
21. Egor Korshkov (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/2/20749562/top-25-under-25-egor-korshkov-still-at-21-but-with-a-new-name-toronto-maple-leafs-yegor-prospects)
20. Mikko Kokkonen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/6/20731718/toronto-maple-leafs-2019-top-25-under-25-maple-leafs-prospects-mikko-kokkonen-2019-nhl-draft)
19. Adam Brooks (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/7/20755328/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-adam-brooks-maple-leafs-prospects-toronto-marlies)
18. Pierre Engvall (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/8/20754911/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-pierre-engvall-18-marlies-best-goal-scorer-ahl-prospects-analysis)
17. Ian Scott (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/9/20757890/toronto-maple-leafs-2019-top-25-under-25-maple-leafs-prospects-ian-scott-2018-draft-goal-scorer)
16. Joseph Woll (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/12/20755136/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-woll-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-goalies)
15. Mac Hollowell (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/13/20802869/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-mac-hollowell-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-defense)
14. Ilya Mikheyev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/14/20793707/top-25-under-25-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-ilya-mikheyev-arrives-at-14)
13. Nic Petan (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/15/20804662/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nic-petan-maple-leafs-roster-toronto-marlies-roster)
12. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/16/20806155/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-the-case-against-jeremy-bracco-12-toronto-marlies-nhl-ahl)
11. Nick Robertson (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/19/20806854/top-25-maple-leafs-prospects-under-25-nick-robertson-is-11)
10. Trevor Moore (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/20/20812434/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-ranking-top-25-under-25-trevor-moore-defies-the-odds-at-10-marlies-ahl)
9. Timothy Liljegren (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/21/20802744/top-25-under-25-timothy-liljegren-slides-to-9)
8. Travis Dermott (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2019/8/22/20809933/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-travis-dermott-andreas-johnsson-kasperi-kapanen)
7. Andreas Johnsson (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/23/20828595/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-andreas-johnsson-scored-his-way-to-7-matthews-kapanen-nylander)
6. Rasmus Sandin (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/26/20806238/maple-leafs-news-move-over-timothy-rasmus-sandin-is-now-the-leafs-top-prospect)
5. Alexander Kerfoot (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/27/20832267/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-alex-kerfoot-nazem-kadri-trade-maple-leafs-roster-leafs-stats)
4. Kasperi Kapanen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/28/20831980/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-kasperi-kapanen)
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)
2. Mitch Marner (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20813150/top-25-under-25-mitch-marner-cashes-in-at-2-players-rankings-leafs-sign-the-contract)
1. Auston Matthews (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20836234/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-auston-matthews-still-the-king-stats)
25. Pierre Engvall (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/7/30/17620398/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-pierre-engvall-nhl-prospects-toronto-marlies-ahl)
24. Jordan Subban (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/7/31/17623976/maple-leafs-2018-top-25-under-25-jordan-subban-marlies-defenceman)
23. Mason Marchment (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/1/17627880/maple-leafs-2018-top-25-under-25-mason-marchment-marlies-chaotic-good)
22. Dmytro Timashov (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/2/17607868/toronto-maple-leafs-dmytro-timashov-2018-top-25-under-25-toronto-marlies-jeremy-bracco)
21. Yegor Korshkov (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/3/17641094/2018-top-25-maple-leafs-under-25-21-yegor-korshkov-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-khl-lokomotiv)
20. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/7/17598140/2018-top-25-under-25-20-semyon-der-arguchintsev-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-stats-video)
19. Eemeli Räsänen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/8/17627328/2018-top-25-under-25-19-eemeli-rasanen-maple-leafs-prospects-khl-jokerit)
18. Sean Durzi (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/9/17501712/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-2018-sean-durzi-nhl-draft-owen-sound-attack-ohl-prospects) traded
17. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/10/17662658/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-jeremy-bracco-toronto-marlies-kitchener-rangers-windsor-spitfires)
16. Adam Brooks (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/13/17651198/2018-t25u25-16-adam-brooks-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-rankings-stats-profiles)
15. Trevor Moore (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/8/14/17672804/2018-top-25-under-25-15-trevor-moore-has-a-shot-with-the-toronto-maple-leafs-toronto-marlies-lineup)
14. Calle Rosén (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/8/15/17647780/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-prospects-toronto-marlies-ahl-calder-cup) old/traded
13. Carl Grundstrom (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/16/17620120/2018-top-25-under-25-13-carl-grundstrom-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-stats-video) traded
12. Rasmus Sandin (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/17/17669044/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-2018-rasmus-sandin-12-nhl-draft-soo-greyhounds)
11. Andreas Borgman (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/8/20/17628276/2018-top-25-under-25-11-andreas-borgman-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-stats-video) traded
10. Connor Carrick (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/21/17753700/2018-t25u25-10-connor-carrick-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-players-profiles) traded
9. Connor Brown (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/22/17756740/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-9-connor-brown-toronto-maple-leafs-roster-connor-brown-stats) old/traded
8. Andreas Johnsson (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/23/17641250/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-can-andreas-johnsson-win-the-calder-yes-he-can-haters)
7. Timothy Liljegren (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/24/17755520/toronto-maple-leafs-2018-top-25-under-25-timothy-liljegren-7-marlies-prospects)
6. Kasperi Kapanen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/27/17654460/2018-top-25-under-25-rankings-6-kasperi-kapanen-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-stats-video)
5. Travis Dermott (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2018/8/28/17773998/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-5-travis-dermott-defense-toronto-marlies-prospect-nhl)
4. Morgan Rielly (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/29/17790462/2018-top-25-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-under-25-captain-morgan-rielly-is-4) old
T2: Mitch Marner (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/30/17656386/2018-toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-mitch-marner-is-2-mitch-marner-analysis-marner-highlights)
T2: William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/30/17656300/2018-toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-william-nylander-analysis-nylander-highlights-mitch-marner)
1. Auston Matthews (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2018/8/31/17791840/toronto-maple-leafs-nhl-top-25-under-25-auston-matthews-prospects)

* Brazeau is on an AHL deal and thus ineligible for this exercise. I've listed him here nonetheless as he gets an honourable mention (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/16/20692325/justin-brazeau-toronto-maple-leafs-toronto-marlies-maple-leafs-depth-north-bay-battalion-ohl-signing) from PPP.

TLN's top 20 (Calder-eligible) prospects
They're changing it up this year into a tiered system.
2019
Tier 1: The Impact Players

Tier 2: The Maybes
Mason Marchment (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/03/2019-leafs-prospect-rankings-the-maybes-mason-marchment/), Joseph Woll (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/06/2019-prospect-rankings-joseph-woll/), Pierre Engvall (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/07/2019-leafs-prospect-rankings-the-maybes-pierre-engvall/), Nick Robertson (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/09/2019-leafs-prospect-rankings-the-maybes-nick-robertson/), Adam Brooks (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/08/2019-leafs-prospects-rankings-the-maybes-adam-brooks/), Jeremy Bracco (https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/10/2019-leafs-prospect-rankings-the-maybes-jeremy-bracco/)

Tier 3: The Fence Sitters
Teemu Kivihalme, Mikhail Abramov, Dymytro Timashov, Ian Scott, Mikko Kokkonen, Jesper Lindgren, Joseph Duszak, Mac Hollowell, Egor Korshkov, Semyon Der-Arguchintsev

Tier 4: Longshots
Eemeli Rasanen, Pontus Holmberg, Zach Bouthillier, Riley Stotts, Mike Koster, Nick Abruzzese, Filip Kral, Kalle Loponen,

Tier 5: The Longest Shots
Semyon Kizimov, JD Greenway, Ryan O'Connell, Martins Dzirekals, Vladimir Bobylev, Valdislav Kara, Nikolai Chebykin,
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on April 30, 2019, 11:04:37 AM
This year will finally break the Marner/Nylander tie (2. Marner, 3. Nylander) as the younger player put up a career high for just about everything (as well as helping his centre do similar) while the older player was only able to post up good underlying statistics.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 30, 2019, 11:07:31 AM
This year will finally break the Marner/Nylander tie (2. Marner, 3. Nylander) as the younger player put up a career high for just about everything (as well as helping his centre do similar) while the older player was only able to post up good underlying statistics.

What a difference a year can make.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on April 30, 2019, 11:14:55 AM
This year will finally break the Marner/Nylander tie (2. Marner, 3. Nylander) as the younger player put up a career high for just about everything (as well as helping his centre do similar) while the older player was only able to post up good underlying statistics.

What a difference a year can make.

A full year of Matthews + Nylander would've made this a very different conversation.

Nylander's under lying stats were elite, but alongside Kadri's choppy shooting percentage and the other offensive black holes, it wasn't a situation conducive to point production.

Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on April 30, 2019, 12:41:20 PM
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2019/02/06/the-big-four-and-scoring-chances/

A earlier look at the play driving metrics of our top ponies, with Tavares in the mix for reference.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 07, 2019, 11:45:17 AM
Says that Rasanan was dropped from his PTO by the Marlies. Is this just because the don't project him to play in the playoffs?  Seems strange they wouldn't keep him around for training and to be part of the atmosphere.
Anyone know if he is signed or are they cutting him adrift?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 07, 2019, 11:56:40 AM
OK found this:
The Maple Leafs have released defenseman Eemeli Rasanen from his PTO with their AHL affiliate, per the AHL’s Transactions page. The 20-year-old split the season between Jokerit of the KHL and Kiekko-Vantaa of the Mestis, Finland’s second division before joining the Marlies in mid-March when his season came to an end.  However, he played in just five regular season games down the stretch and has yet to suit up in the postseason.  Rasanen, a second-rounder back in 2017, is already signed with Jokerit for the 2019-20 season.

Probably going to let him play for Jokerit next season, even though I think playing for the Marlies would be a much better option for him.  Or are the Leafs giving up on him?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 07, 2019, 12:28:25 PM
OK found this:
The Maple Leafs have released defenseman Eemeli Rasanen from his PTO with their AHL affiliate, per the AHL’s Transactions page. The 20-year-old split the season between Jokerit of the KHL and Kiekko-Vantaa of the Mestis, Finland’s second division before joining the Marlies in mid-March when his season came to an end.  However, he played in just five regular season games down the stretch and has yet to suit up in the postseason.  Rasanen, a second-rounder back in 2017, is already signed with Jokerit for the 2019-20 season.

Probably going to let him play for Jokerit next season, even though I think playing for the Marlies would be a much better option for him.  Or are the Leafs giving up on him?

The bolded answers your question. He'd have to get out of his contract to play for the Marlies next season.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 07, 2019, 01:14:29 PM
To bad, he is still very young, so another season in Jokerit is not the end of the world.  Hopefully by the end of next season Lilyman, Sandin and Hollowell are with the big team making space for Gordeev and Rasanen
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 14, 2019, 09:00:55 AM
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Was also named the WHL's goalie of the year. He's off to Halifax for the Memorial Cup now. Ever since Pogge I've been pretty sceptical of uber-WHL goalies until they perform in the AHL but still a heck of a season for the guy.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on May 14, 2019, 09:54:10 AM
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Was also named the WHL's goalie of the year. He's off to Halifax for the Memorial Cup now. Ever since Pogge I've been pretty sceptical of uber-WHL goalies until they perform in the AHL but still a heck of a season for the guy.

Goalies are impossible.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 14, 2019, 10:56:58 AM
I'm curious to know what voodoo sauce they gave Scott during his brief stint with the Marlies last year.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 14, 2019, 06:02:51 PM
Great Scott voodoo sauce with a pinch of Cayenne.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on May 14, 2019, 10:19:07 PM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 02:11:40 AM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.
Lets hope because we cant go into it with Sparks as backup.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on May 15, 2019, 09:30:26 AM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.

Lets hope because we cant go into it with Sparks as backup.

There's multiple reasons why there's literally zero chance that either Scott or Woll is the backup.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 15, 2019, 11:23:19 AM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on May 15, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.

Lets hope because we cant go into it with Sparks as backup.

There's multiple reasons why there's literally zero chance that either Scott or Woll is the backup.


Yeah I wasn't suggesting one would be the backup next season I was thinking long term hopefully one emerges as a real goalie that might potentially replace Andersen at some point.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 15, 2019, 01:31:20 PM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.

Lets hope because we cant go into it with Sparks as backup.

There's multiple reasons why there's literally zero chance that either Scott or Woll is the backup.


Yeah I wasn't suggesting one would be the backup next season I was thinking long term hopefully one emerges as a real goalie that might potentially replace Andersen at some point.
Could be a real probability of that.  Just to mention that in some of the games KK, who is in the same height and build range as Freddie seems to be moving a lot like Freddie as well (in some of the games I have seen). Not outside the realm of possibility the Leafs use another 6 or 7 pick on a Goalie.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 15, 2019, 01:38:57 PM
Just reading that Gordeev has to be signed to either an AHL or ECHL contract in the next few weeks.  Considering he is playing a very big role in the Guelph playoff run, do we see the Leafs signing him?
Seems as he skates so well that we should keep him in the fold and keep teaching him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 15, 2019, 02:31:42 PM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.

Like with Woll and Scott, there's basically zero chance Kaskisuo is team's backup next season, either. If it's not Sparks, it'll be a veteran guy, not someone with zero minutes of NHL experience.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 02:41:10 PM
Berrien Scott and Woll hopefully one is good.

Lets hope because we cant go into it with Sparks as backup.

There's multiple reasons why there's literally zero chance that either Scott or Woll is the backup.


Yeah I wasn't suggesting one would be the backup next season I was thinking long term hopefully one emerges as a real goalie that might potentially replace Andersen at some point.
Neither was I. If either of these guys push for a job on the Marlies next season it will give the Leafs options.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 02:51:48 PM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.

Like with Woll and Scott, there's basically zero chance Kaskisuo is team's backup next season, either. If it's not Sparks, it'll be a veteran guy, not someone with zero minutes of NHL experience.
Don't agree. If KK is the best goalie in camp and they have goalies for the Marlies, I don't see why they wouldn't give him a shot. I also think at the right price Hutch could be the backup. I don't see Sparks back with the Leafs anytime soon.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on May 15, 2019, 03:09:52 PM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.

Like with Woll and Scott, there's basically zero chance Kaskisuo is team's backup next season, either. If it's not Sparks, it'll be a veteran guy, not someone with zero minutes of NHL experience.

I agree with this.  Leafs will look to find the "next McBackup", some journeyman guy who's always done the role and is without a contract or on waivers.  Hopefully there's one out there that can do an adequate job.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 15, 2019, 03:57:25 PM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.

Like with Woll and Scott, there's basically zero chance Kaskisuo is team's backup next season, either. If it's not Sparks, it'll be a veteran guy, not someone with zero minutes of NHL experience.
Don't agree. If KK is the best goalie in camp and they have goalies for the Marlies, I don't see why they wouldn't give him a shot. I also think at the right price Hutch could be the backup. I don't see Sparks back with the Leafs anytime soon.
This is starting to look like the job market opportunties for our youth. Can't have the job without experience, so how to get experience? It's nonsense, you are suggesting that they play KK for several games at NHL level and send him down for more seasoning; a la Sparks and we know how that worked out.  I don't think Sparks is back, unless Dubas puts his foot.
If he finishes with the way he has been playing then why not give him a shot next year out of camp.
If Woll and Scott are coming to the AHL's, who's going to go, we can't carry 4 AHL goalies unless Woll and Scott start out on the Growlers and don't think that is going to happen. 
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 05:06:09 PM
If KK can keep up this playoff performance perhaps he gets a chance. Hutch not the answer.

Like with Woll and Scott, there's basically zero chance Kaskisuo is team's backup next season, either. If it's not Sparks, it'll be a veteran guy, not someone with zero minutes of NHL experience.
Don't agree. If KK is the best goalie in camp and they have goalies for the Marlies, I don't see why they wouldn't give him a shot. I also think at the right price Hutch could be the backup. I don't see Sparks back with the Leafs anytime soon.
This is starting to look like the job market opportunties for our youth. Can't have the job without experience, so how to get experience? It's nonsense, you are suggesting that they play KK for several games at NHL level and send him down for more seasoning; a la Sparks and we know how that worked out.  I don't think Sparks is back, unless Dubas puts his foot.
If he finishes with the way he has been playing then why not give him a shot next year out of camp.
If Woll and Scott are coming to the AHL's, who's going to go, we can't carry 4 AHL goalies unless Woll and Scott start out on the Growlers and don't think that is going to happen. 
I never suggested to give KK a few NHL games and send him back down for seasoning. I suspect if KK is backup to Freddie and Woll and Scott are ready for the AHL, they might be there and Sparks will be gone, either through waivers or trade. Now should they sign Hutch to backup Freddie, maybe they run with 3. Who knows what Dubas and company will do.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on May 15, 2019, 05:07:59 PM
Kaskisuo doesn't have half the pedigree and success that Sparks did at this point in his career. Suggesting he has a chance at the back-up position is just not understanding the realities.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 05:46:16 PM
Kaskisuo doesn't have half the pedigree and success that Sparks did at this point in his career. Suggesting he has a chance at the back-up position is just not understanding the realities.
I don't see KK with the Leafs but to say he doesn't have a shot if he keeps going on this roll in the playoffs is just not understanding the realities also.
Whoever Dubas/Babs sees as the best guy for the job will get it, regardless of pedigree.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on May 15, 2019, 06:03:27 PM
A 25 year old goalie who's has a .949 save percentage across 7 playoff games but only an .896 in the regular season?

What reality am I missing? I'm not saying he won't get a shot; of course he will. But the reality is the odds of him being the backup on any NHL team are extremely slim.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on May 15, 2019, 06:16:17 PM

For Kakiskuo to be the back-up next year they'd have to be making the decision based on an extremely small sample size of playoff games and/or how he looks in the largely meaningless pre-season. Neither should override a much more established track record.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on May 15, 2019, 06:25:57 PM
Suggesting he has a chance at the back-up position is just not understanding the realities.
What reality am I missing? I'm not saying he won't get a shot; of course he will.
So when it was suggested that KK has a chance and could potentially be a backup, slim or not, you say anyone suggesting that doesn't understand the realities. Then you say of course he'll get a shot.
No one is arguing his chances are very slim at best. I actually think he has a better shot at it then Sparks. Something's up there and I don't think it's playing related.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 15, 2019, 06:39:05 PM
For Kakiskuo to be the back-up next year they'd have to be making the decision based on an extremely small sample size of playoff games and/or how he looks in the largely meaningless pre-season. Neither should override a much more established track record.

Yeah. And, while AHL numbers can be misleading for goalies, he’ll also be 26 to start next season. So, he’s not exactly a young prospect still figuring things out. At this point, it’s much more likely that he is what we saw in the regular season - a mediocre at best AHL goalie on a hot streak in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on May 15, 2019, 08:58:00 PM
Suggesting he has a chance at the back-up position is just not understanding the realities.
What reality am I missing? I'm not saying he won't get a shot; of course he will.
So when it was suggested that KK has a chance and could potentially be a backup, slim or not, you say anyone suggesting that doesn't understand the realities. Then you say of course he'll get a shot.
No one is arguing his chances are very slim at best. I actually think he has a better shot at it then Sparks. Something's up there and I don't think it's playing related.

I'm not being contradictory. I'm saying he'll get a shot (opportunity at training camp). I'm also saying he doesn't have a real chance (extremely unlikely).
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 16, 2019, 11:29:04 AM
For Kakiskuo to be the back-up next year they'd have to be making the decision based on an extremely small sample size of playoff games and/or how he looks in the largely meaningless pre-season. Neither should override a much more established track record.

Yeah. And, while AHL numbers can be misleading for goalies, he’ll also be 26 to start next season. So, he’s not exactly a young prospect still figuring things out. At this point, it’s much more likely that he is what we saw in the regular season - a mediocre at best AHL goalie on a hot streak in the playoffs.
I think it is more than that and I commented a few posts back that at some point in the season KK had a Eureka moment, perhaps through a coaching adjustment, something clicked and now he is playing like this. Let's hope he keeps it up.  I would like to see an Athletic article explaining the change.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 16, 2019, 01:07:34 PM
I think it is more than that and I commented a few posts back that at some point in the season KK had a Eureka moment, perhaps through a coaching adjustment, something clicked and now he is playing like this. Let's hope he keeps it up.  I would like to see an Athletic article explaining the change.

Seems unlikely. We've seen too many goalies with marginal/mediocre track records go on hot streaks (especially in the playoffs) and then come crashing down to earth just as quickly. He's had a good 7 games. That's it, really. We shouldn't read any more into it, because, odds are, there isn't more there.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on May 16, 2019, 01:29:53 PM
I fondly remember when future Hall-of-Famer goalie Brian Boucher got his record-breaking shutout streak:

https://www.nhl.com/news/centennial-memory-retired-goalie-brian-boucher-recalls-streak/c-285465160

After that, he went on to win around 50 more games that season. Oh, wait, I meant 50 more in the rest of his career. Almost like that amazing streak is but a small sample of his overall career.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 16, 2019, 01:35:10 PM
I fondly remember when future Hall-of-Famer goalie Brian Boucher got his record-breaking shutout streak:

https://www.nhl.com/news/centennial-memory-retired-goalie-brian-boucher-recalls-streak/c-285465160

After that, he went on to win around 50 more games that season. Oh, wait, I meant 50 more in the rest of his career. Almost like that amazing streak is but a small sample of his overall career.

Or Andrew Hammond's exceptional run in 14/15, only to see him not able to crack an NHL roster this season, and only getting into a single NHL game last season.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: cabber24 on May 16, 2019, 02:10:05 PM
I fondly remember when future Hall-of-Famer goalie Brian Boucher got his record-breaking shutout streak:

https://www.nhl.com/news/centennial-memory-retired-goalie-brian-boucher-recalls-streak/c-285465160

After that, he went on to win around 50 more games that season. Oh, wait, I meant 50 more in the rest of his career. Almost like that amazing streak is but a small sample of his overall career.
Fantasy hockey unicorn which I capitalized on.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 16, 2019, 06:01:03 PM
Look at what a bust Dubnyk was, bouncing from team to team, then something clicked, he took some coaching in something or other and he was like a new guy. Anyway will stop with the KK thing,  what will be will be.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on May 16, 2019, 06:10:56 PM
Look at what a bust Dubnyk was, bouncing from team to team, then something clicked, he took some coaching in something or other and he was like a new guy. Anyway will stop with the KK thing,  what will be will be.

Dubnyk had 3 straight NHL seasons with a Sv% .914 or higher before his one awful year that saw him him "bounce from team to team," from which he's rebounded to perform at a similar level to how he did previous to that season, just for teams that did a better job of preventing shots against. Nothing just "clicked" for him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 16, 2019, 06:47:45 PM
Ok, thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on May 16, 2019, 09:39:28 PM
Hopefully the Islanders goaltending regresses to hot manure next season
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 24, 2019, 12:42:58 PM
(https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/dhYnSRUOOfn_8harrVMrV4dxMWQ=/0x0:1029x1200/1720x0/filters:focal(0x0:1029x1200):no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/16500743/D91kx7eXsAU72Pn.jpg)

https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects/2019/6/24/18715603/toronto-maple-leafs-2019-development-camp-roster-nick-robertson-2019-nhl-draft-maple-leafs-prospects
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on June 27, 2019, 01:00:13 PM

Fresh from her Hall of Fame induction during a med school exam, Wickenheiser brings some experience to the baby buds.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on June 29, 2019, 01:05:36 PM

How did I not know that the Leafs have a development camp invitee named Gunnarwolfe Fontaine?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on June 29, 2019, 01:41:15 PM

How did I not know that the Leafs have a development camp invitee named Gunnarwolfe Fontaine?

I was also unaware of this person.  I like to think we're pretty sharp around here, so how the hell did this fall through the cracks?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 29, 2019, 02:30:54 PM
Because Gunnarwolfe is a hologram.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 29, 2019, 02:52:48 PM
Get rid of the last name, Gunner Wolf works fine for me, with Ferrat Face behind the bench. We need more forest creatures on our team, now that Marleau's eyebrows have been traded.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 29, 2019, 03:33:11 PM

How did I not know that the Leafs have a development camp invitee named Gunnarwolfe Fontaine?

I was also unaware of this person.  I like to think we're pretty sharp around here, so how the hell did this fall through the cracks?
He was a teammate of Nicholas Abruzzese who the Leafs just drafted. My guess is they saw something in him to warrant an invite. Gunnarwolfe is heading to Northeastern University..Maybe a future FA signing??
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 29, 2019, 10:18:14 PM
With a name like that, I am all for it. Hopefully Mom and Dad created his name for his future and not as a Trapper.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 12, 2019, 12:04:08 PM
The Leafs have pretty big hopes pinned on their two top goalie prospects as we near the end of Andersen's contract.

This one is about Ian Scott, who had something of a miracle run last season with the Raiders after a playoff stint in the midst of the Marlies Calder Cup Championship run.

https://theathletic.com/1046601/2019/07/12/a-look-behind-leafs-goalie-prospect-ian-scotts-unbelievable-turnaround/

Quote
[Scott] spent [time] with the Toronto Marlies down the stretch that season where, instead of shuffling [him] off to the team’s development group, they played him in a late-season game (which they won) and allowed him to ride shotgun during the Calder Cup run, even putting his name on the trophy.

“He took advantage of that,” Hunt said. “It can be a bit of a grind but he put himself in a position where their coaching staff wanted him there every day and he got to learn from two goalies who were basically NHL goalies.

“These young kids don’t know until they know. The juniors have no idea how hard the pros work. Ian learned a ton about himself and preparation and I thank the Leafs for that because he came back here and he really never looked back. His posture and his poise throughout the year, there were nights when we weren’t very good in front of him and he was a monster out there.”
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on July 13, 2019, 01:39:01 PM
The Leafs have pretty big hopes pinned on their two top goalie prospects as we near the end of Andersen's contract.

This one is about Ian Scott, who had something of a miracle run last season with the Raiders after a playoff stint in the midst of the Marlies Calder Cup Championship run.

https://theathletic.com/1046601/2019/07/12/a-look-behind-leafs-goalie-prospect-ian-scotts-unbelievable-turnaround/

Quote
[Scott] spent [time] with the Toronto Marlies down the stretch that season where, instead of shuffling [him] off to the team’s development group, they played him in a late-season game (which they won) and allowed him to ride shotgun during the Calder Cup run, even putting his name on the trophy.

“He took advantage of that,” Hunt said. “It can be a bit of a grind but he put himself in a position where their coaching staff wanted him there every day and he got to learn from two goalies who were basically NHL goalies.

“These young kids don’t know until they know. The juniors have no idea how hard the pros work. Ian learned a ton about himself and preparation and I thank the Leafs for that because he came back here and he really never looked back. His posture and his poise throughout the year, there were nights when we weren’t very good in front of him and he was a monster out there.”
Great article, with what is being said about both Woll and Scott, we look like we have some future Keepers
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 11:14:01 AM
Trying not to overthink this

1. Auston Matthews (1)
2. Mitch Marner (2)
3. William Nylander (3)
4. Kasperi Kapanen (4)
5. Travis Dermott (8 )
6. Alexander Kerfoot (5)
7. Andreas Johnsson (7)
8. Rasmus Sandin (6)
9. Timothy Liljegren (9)
10. Nic Petan (13)
11. Trevor Moore (10)
12. Ilya Mikheyev (14)
13. Nick Robertson (11)
14. Egor Korshkov (21)
15. Jeremy Bracco (12)
16. Teemu Kivihalme (NR)
17. Pierre Engvall (18)
18. Joseph Woll (16)
19. Ian Scott (17)
20. Mac Hollowell (15)
21. Joseph Duszak (25)
22. Semyon Der Arguchintsev (22)
23. Adam Brooks (19)
24. Kasimir Kaskisuo (NR)
25. Mikko Kokkonen (20)

I haven't really seen enough of the back half to be even remotely sure.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on July 19, 2019, 11:19:09 AM

Man, that is one hell of a wasteland after #9.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 11:19:49 AM
It is a big smear of shrugs
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on July 19, 2019, 12:30:38 PM
Ignoring the ones that are already in the NHL, there are intriguing names for sure, but mostly question marks to ever hit the big time. I'm intrigued by Scott, Hollowell, Duszak & Brazeau.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 12:58:39 PM
With the NHL top 8 forwards essentially locked in for the next 3 years, and Rielly/Dermott on defense, our primary prospect concerns in the short term are 1) rounding out the top-4 defense 2) long term dependable 4C on the cheap 3) the next Andersen, and 4) LW with puck-getting and some scoring.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: A Weekend at Bernier's on July 19, 2019, 01:54:40 PM

Man, that is one hell of a wasteland after #9.

Maybe, but I think Trevor Moore has shown enough to be considered above the wasteland bar.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on July 19, 2019, 02:10:24 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 02:27:01 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?

Played on a bad team and had a poor showing on the stats sheet. Playmaking centre with wingers without finish = 0___0

But 1G 1A in 3 Growlers games
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on July 19, 2019, 02:49:41 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?

Played on a bad team and had a poor showing on the stats sheet. Playmaking centre with wingers without finish = 0___0

But 1G 1A in 3 Growlers games

Playmaking centre might be a bit of an overstatement, given his 46 points in 62 games in the O.

6 goals :(
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 02:53:18 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?

Played on a bad team and had a poor showing on the stats sheet. Playmaking centre with wingers without finish = 0___0

But 1G 1A in 3 Growlers games

Playmaking centre might be a bit of an overstatement, given his 46 points in 62 games in the O.

6 goals :(

That's his literal style of play: he's a passer, not a shooter.

He is also the youngest player in his draft cohort, so there's a year of development there to account for in comparison. That said, his D+1 looked worse than his D-0.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on July 19, 2019, 02:54:28 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?

Played on a bad team and had a poor showing on the stats sheet. Playmaking centre with wingers without finish = 0___0

But 1G 1A in 3 Growlers games

Playmaking centre might be a bit of an overstatement, given his 46 points in 62 games in the O.

6 goals :(

That's his literal style of play: he's a passer, not a shooter.

So not so much a playmaker as a playtryer.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 02:55:22 PM
So not so much a playmaker as a playtryer.

Touche
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 19, 2019, 03:00:34 PM
Trying not to overthink this

1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Kasperi Kapanen
5. Travis Dermott
6. Alexander Kerfoot
7. Andreas Johnsson
8. Rasmus Sandin
9. Timothy Liljegren
10. Nic Petan
11. Trevor Moore
12. Ilya Mikheyev
13. Nick Robertson
14. Egor Korshkov
15. Jeremy Bracco
16. Teemu Kivihalme
17. Pierre Engvall
18. Joseph Woll
19. Ian Scott
20. Mac Hollowell
21. Joseph Duszak
22. Semyon Der Arguchintsev
23. Adam Brooks
24. Kasimir Kaskisuo
25. Mikko Kokkonen

I haven't really seen enough of the back half to be even remotely sure.

Totally forgot Borgman. Oh wells.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 19, 2019, 03:55:13 PM
Trying not to overthink this

1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Kasperi Kapanen
5. Travis Dermott
6. Alexander Kerfoot
7. Andreas Johnsson
8. Rasmus Sandin
9. Timothy Liljegren
10. Nic Petan
11. Trevor Moore
12. Ilya Mikheyev
13. Nick Robertson
14. Egor Korshkov
15. Jeremy Bracco
16. Teemu Kivihalme
17. Pierre Engvall
18. Joseph Woll
19. Ian Scott
20. Mac Hollowell
21. Joseph Duszak
22. Semyon Der Arguchintsev
23. Adam Brooks
24. Kasimir Kaskisuo
25. Mikko Kokkonen

I haven't really seen enough of the back half to be even remotely sure.

Totally forgot Borgman. Oh wells.
And Marchment who might challenge for a 4th line spot this season.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on July 19, 2019, 06:23:17 PM

Man, that is one hell of a wasteland after #9.

Maybe, but I think Trevor Moore has shown enough to be considered above the wasteland bar.
Trevor Moore, Trevor Moore and his horse Concord, He steals from the poor to give to the rich, silly b__tch!!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on July 19, 2019, 07:35:58 PM
What happened to Der Arguchintsev this past season?

Played on a bad team and had a poor showing on the stats sheet. Playmaking centre with wingers without finish = 0___0

But 1G 1A in 3 Growlers games

Playmaking centre might be a bit of an overstatement, given his 46 points in 62 games in the O.

6 goals :(


Keep in mind he's still only 18. Was really really young so let's give him a chance to grow.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 20, 2019, 05:09:46 PM
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 28, 2019, 06:45:50 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
This is going to be really fun
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 29, 2019, 08:49:42 AM
25. Joseph Duszak (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/29/8932858/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-duszak-maple-leafs-prospects-mercyhurst-hockey-ncaa)

I had him at 21 on my off-the-cuff list, largely because he was ELC'd out of college by this front office and plays a position of elevated value in the league with the tools I like to see (strong, improvable skating; puck confidence). He'll get a full AHL season to calibrate his game speed and we'll have a better idea next year.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 29, 2019, 08:52:14 AM
Totally forgot Borgman. Oh wells.

(https://i.imgflip.com/2/1jqcf8.jpg)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 30, 2019, 09:22:02 AM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 30, 2019, 03:58:34 PM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
13 forward at best this season. He shouldn't be on the team.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on July 30, 2019, 04:05:24 PM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
13 forward at best this season. He shouldn't be on the team.

At best he's probably #16.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 30, 2019, 04:14:02 PM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
13 forward at best this season. He shouldn't be on the team.

At best he's probably #16.

He’s like 3C on the Marlies at most lol
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on July 30, 2019, 04:18:03 PM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
13 forward at best this season. He shouldn't be on the team.

At best he's probably #16.

He’s like 3C on the Marlies at most lol
Lets stop all this Goat bashing!!!!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 30, 2019, 04:30:35 PM
I really hope he saved up all that 1-way money he earned last season. He's a smart guy so I'm sure he did.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 30, 2019, 05:00:14 PM
24. Frederik Gauthier (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/30/20746480/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier-maple-leafs-roster-maple-leafs-centres)

He has turned out better than I ever could have expected yet still sort of hovers at the slightly below replacement level mark. Why he hasn't been traded to Montreal, who is in semi-desperate need of centres, yet is beyond me.
13 forward at best this season. He shouldn't be on the team.

At best he's probably #16.
I wouldn't even rank him that high. I guess I should have said best case for us, the fans, is that he never makes it above the 13th forward position.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 30, 2019, 05:10:55 PM
Does there really need to be a hand full of posts raking a kid over the coals? We get it, he's not NHL material.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 30, 2019, 05:27:36 PM
Does there really need to be a hand full of posts raking a kid over the coals? We get it, he's not NHL material.
Silly question. Of course we do!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 30, 2019, 06:02:49 PM
I don’t think it is unfair to say that more depth has been added over Gauthier.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on July 30, 2019, 07:09:43 PM

I think I'd wait on kicking him down the depth chart until we see some of these guys actually play. Last year it was Lindholm and Borgman who were going to revolutionize bottom of the roster play and prove Dubas' to be a super-genius. This year it's Mikhayev and Shore.

Every year we get this hype on scrap heap guys and every year they turn out roughly as useless as what we already had.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Dappleganger on July 30, 2019, 07:30:12 PM

I think I'd wait on kicking him down the depth chart until we see some of these guys actually play. Last year it was Lindholm and Borgman who were going to revolutionize bottom of the roster play and prove Dubas' to be a super-genius. This year it's Mikhayev and Shore.

Every year we get this hype on scrap heap guys and every year they turn out roughly as useless as what we already had.

This was posted online 3 minutes before your post:  ;D

https://editorinleaf.com/2019/07/30/toronto-maple-leafs-warranted-mikheyev/
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on July 30, 2019, 08:27:08 PM
Quote
This is another solid move Kyle Dubas and should prove to be a very smart signing.

This final line of the article is more or less what Nik is talking about. I don't think anyone should be predicting that it "should prove" to be a very smart signing. Par Lindholm was 4th in SHL league scoring before coming over to the Leafs.

I hope Mikheyev turns out, but I'm not going to hold out much hope until I see results.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on July 30, 2019, 09:02:30 PM
Zaitsev was also that guy coveted by many teams, and the Leaf just paid a ransom to get rid of him at mid-tier RHS NHL d-man money after a few years of pretty meh on-ice performance. Thanks Lou...

Diamond in the rough is a statistically low percentage game. Dubas hasn't showed he's got that game figured out at all yet.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on July 30, 2019, 10:53:51 PM
I do say though, that getting someone like Mikheyev at only $925k is a pretty low risk move. From that stand-point, it's a decent move. Getting Zaitsev was good too.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on July 31, 2019, 01:01:37 AM
Zaitsev was also that guy coveted by many teams, and the Leaf just paid a ransom to get rid of him at mid-tier RHS NHL d-man money after a few years of pretty meh on-ice performance. Thanks Lou...

I don't know that they "paid a ransom" to get rid of him. They got back Ceci who apparently they want in the lineup this year and while I guess they might have done better for Brown than a 3rd if they'd traded him separately they wouldn't have done much better for him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 31, 2019, 08:49:32 AM
More Nick Robertson: @the WJSS

Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 31, 2019, 08:52:04 AM
https://theathletic.com/1094241/2019/07/31/the-gifted-leafs-prospect-nick-robertson-is-a-rare-case-study-in-the-value-of-effort/

Nick Robertson gets a spotlight today from Wheeler on his standout ability: trying.

Basically Zach Hyman, but smaller, faster, more puck skilled, and can shoot a bit like Matthews-style.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 31, 2019, 08:53:24 AM
23. Mason Marchment (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/31/20729806/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-mason-marchment-toronto-marlies-roster-maple-leafs-roster)

This guy is going draw and take a lot of penalties
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 31, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
23. Mason Marchment (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/31/20729806/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-mason-marchment-toronto-marlies-roster-maple-leafs-roster)

This guy is going draw and take a lot of penalties
I like the way he plays. With all the signings it will be really difficult for him and others to crack the lineup.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 31, 2019, 03:38:15 PM
23. Mason Marchment (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/7/31/20729806/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-mason-marchment-toronto-marlies-roster-maple-leafs-roster)

This guy is going draw and take a lot of penalties
I like the way he plays. With all the signings it will be really difficult for him and others to crack the lineup.

If we trade out a bunch of them at the deadline, he might get a spin to close out the season alongside Liljegren, Sandin. Or he might get traded himself as a sweetener and get a chance with Minnesota or Vancouver or whoever.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 31, 2019, 05:18:15 PM
For Marchment to continue following along the "Trevor Moore development path" he's going to need to take a pretty big step forward offensively in his 3rd/upcoming AHL season. He really didn't stand much of a chance of making the team even prior to the offseason signings.

Moore AHL Year 1: 0.57 PPG
Year 2: 0.48 PPG
Year 3: 0.84 PPG

Marchment Year 1: 0.59 PPG
Year 2: 0.57 PPG

Offence obviously isn't everything for these players but it shows that they've become all-around top players for the Marlies and that's a requirement for a promotion.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on July 31, 2019, 06:24:22 PM
Yoink!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 01, 2019, 09:03:29 AM
22. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/1/20730219/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-maple-leads-prospects-semyon-der-arguchintsev-peterborough-petes)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on August 01, 2019, 11:14:27 AM
Yoink!
Every day, I see more of this kid doing exactly the same thing, robbing guys at the blue line and then shelving it..
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on August 01, 2019, 02:08:46 PM
22. Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/1/20730219/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-maple-leads-prospects-semyon-der-arguchintsev-peterborough-petes)

Interesting. In that article it mentions Sandin is the second youngest player in the Leafs' system after Robertson. I didn't realize he was that young. Almost doubled Liljegren's scoring.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 01, 2019, 02:29:05 PM
Interesting. In that article it mentions Sandin is the second youngest player in the Leafs' system after Robertson. I didn't realize he was that young. Almost doubled Liljegren's scoring.

I think you might have misread that section. Sandin (3/7/00) is the next oldest player after Semyon Der-Arguchintsev (9/15/00). Robertson (9/11/01) is nearly a full year younger than Der-Arguchintsev (4 days short).

In ascending order of age:
Nick Robertson
Mike Koster
Mikhail Abramov
Kalle Loponen
Mikko Kokkonen
Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
Rasmus Sandin
Riley Stotts
Filip Kral
Nick Abruzzese
Timothy Liljegren
Ryan O'Connell
Pontus Holmberg

This https://pick224.com site that Katya linked is super useful for quickly grabbing all the Toronto drafted players not yet in an upper pro-league (NHL, KHL, SEL, Liiga, etc.)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on August 01, 2019, 03:24:06 PM
Oh, that's right, thanks. I read it as next oldest after Robertson.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 01, 2019, 03:37:08 PM
Oh, that's right, thanks. I read it as next oldest after Robertson.

It was a bit jumbly, that sentence, so I immediately knew what you were referring to. Sandin had a really good AHL start either way, and he and Liljegren were both very young for AHL defensemen.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 02, 2019, 04:34:38 AM
I pipped into hockeydb (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0008062019.html) for a closer look at Semyon’s season, and while the raw counts are a bit disappointing (nearly the same as last season minus a large chunk of powerplay goals), he still had a good showing relative to his teammates. He ended the year top 10 (6th) on the team in points and was third youngest in that group. The Petes also started a new coaching staff last season and as mentioned in the article, Der-Arguchintsev got a new role on PP after the team lost Korostolev’s snipe show. There were zero 30 goal scorers on the team this year and he managed to post 40 assists anyways.

In the meantime, Nick Robertson stood out on the team with less playing time (injuries). How he fell to late round 2 is a mystery.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 02, 2019, 08:15:16 AM
21. Egor Korshkov (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/2/20749562/top-25-under-25-egor-korshkov-still-at-21-but-with-a-new-name-toronto-maple-leafs-yegor-prospects)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 02, 2019, 02:59:55 PM
I pipped into hockeydb (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0008062019.html) for a closer look at Semyon’s season, and while the raw counts are a bit disappointing (nearly the same as last season minus a large chunk of powerplay goals), he still had a good showing relative to his teammates. He ended the year top 10 (6th) on the team in points and was third youngest in that group. The Petes also started a new coaching staff last season and as mentioned in the article, Der-Arguchintsev got a new role on PP after the team lost Korostolev’s snipe show. There were zero 30 goal scorers on the team this year and he managed to post 40 assists anyways.

In the meantime, Nick Robertson stood out on the team with less playing time (injuries). How he fell to late round 2 is a mystery.

5'9"  161 lbs

Its not a mystery given NHL teams history with guys that have the above measurements
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 06, 2019, 09:06:05 AM
20. Mikko Kokkonen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/6/20731718/toronto-maple-leafs-2019-top-25-under-25-maple-leafs-prospects-mikko-kokkonen-2019-nhl-draft)

This one is intriguing.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 07, 2019, 08:30:55 AM
19. Adam Brooks (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/7/20755328/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-adam-brooks-maple-leafs-prospects-toronto-marlies)

This is one of those guys, like a lot of the current top end forward youngsters* on the Marlies, where they're either going to be traded for assets, or steeped in Marlies tea until their peak and get like 30 games filling in with the Leafs. I don't think we see Brooks with the Leafs this coming season, but is probably going to play whatever role Nic Petan ends up playing for us this season.

* Bracco, Marchment, Timashov
I think there are higher plans for Engvall if he can settle into the PK centre role.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 08, 2019, 08:12:16 AM
Speaking of...

18. Pierre Engvall (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/8/20754911/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-pierre-engvall-18-marlies-best-goal-scorer-ahl-prospects-analysis)


The only things lacking are experience in the role and faceoffs, both of which just take time. His ELC expires after this season, but unless he logs 70 NHL games, he is waiver exempt for 1 more season after this one. I think he gets extended for a 2 year league minimum one-way contract mid-season, something like 725k AAV. He'll get every opportunity to crack the bottom of the roster next training camp.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 09, 2019, 08:48:34 AM
17. Ian Scott (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/9/20757890/toronto-maple-leafs-2019-top-25-under-25-maple-leafs-prospects-ian-scott-2018-draft-goal-scorer)

You can very clearly see where a switch was flipped in Scott, even just by reading his stat lines.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 12, 2019, 08:37:12 AM
16. Joseph Woll (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/12/20755136/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-woll-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-goalies)

Looks like the PP crew also voted in the goalies of the future as a pair.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on August 12, 2019, 09:05:37 AM
16. Joseph Woll (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/12/20755136/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-woll-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-goalies)

Looks like the PP crew also voted in the goalies of the future as a pair.

Oh good.  That worked out really well last time.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 12, 2019, 09:29:44 AM
16. Joseph Woll (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/12/20755136/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-woll-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-goalies)

Looks like the PP crew also voted in the goalies of the future as a pair.

Oh good.  That worked out really well last time.

It's really nice when the one that got away is the one that is standing between you and round two every year.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on August 12, 2019, 11:31:07 AM
16. Joseph Woll (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/12/20755136/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-joseph-woll-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-goalies)

Looks like the PP crew also voted in the goalies of the future as a pair.

Oh good.  That worked out really well last time.

It's really nice when the one that got away is the one that is standing between you and round two every year.
It was a moronic move at the time.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 13, 2019, 09:49:16 AM
15. Mac Hollowell (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/13/20802869/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-mac-hollowell-maple-leafs-prospects-maple-leafs-defense)

I like this one.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 14, 2019, 09:11:29 AM
14. Ilya Mikheyev (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/14/20793707/top-25-under-25-toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-ilya-mikheyev-arrives-at-14)

(https://i.redd.it/jj83xyoqxtf31.jpg)

and in case you missed it, Justin Bourne breaks down some video (https://theathletic.com/1089655/2019/07/23/the-concept-of-offensive-prodding-and-why-its-a-trait-the-leafs-should-like-about-ilya-mikheyevs-game/) to identify why he thinks the Leafs targeted Mikheyev: he's always prodding for offensive openings.

It's thanks to one of the skills I really look for in players: their ability to hold the puck under pressure and escaping it. It's why I really like Nylander, and Tavares, and Matthews, and Marner, and Gardiner. The Leafs have dropped players that played hot potato with the puck and have loaded up on more players like this: Kerfoot, Barrie, Mikheyev, Muzzin (sort of).
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 15, 2019, 09:09:16 AM
13. Nic Petan (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/15/20804662/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nic-petan-maple-leafs-roster-toronto-marlies-roster)

I have decided that Nic Petan shall be my new Seth Griffith, but better. He looks absolutely misused in his post junior career.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 15, 2019, 09:57:42 AM
13. Nic Petan (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/15/20804662/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nic-petan-maple-leafs-roster-toronto-marlies-roster)

I have decided that Nic Petan shall be my new Seth Griffith, but better. He looks absolutely misused in his post junior career.

Think he plays more than 10 games as a Leaf this season?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 15, 2019, 10:10:34 AM
13. Nic Petan (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/15/20804662/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nic-petan-maple-leafs-roster-toronto-marlies-roster)

I have decided that Nic Petan shall be my new Seth Griffith, but better. He looks absolutely misused in his post junior career.

Think he plays more than 10 games as a Leaf this season?

I can see a situation in which Petan - Kerfoot - Kapanen is a line for a bit because I don't think Moore is going to be able to keep up an entire season in the top 9, and Mikheyev will need some adjustment time. Sort of depends what Agostino/Shore are bringing to the table too. Pretty sure Babcock is going to hate Aberg.

What might be really interesting fun would be
Kerfoot - Tavares - Marner
Mikheyev - Matthews - Nylander
Johnsson - Petan - Kapanen
Moore - Shore - Spezza

He's got a 2 year deal which makes him easier to send down, but I can also see this being a hedge for backfilling the LW depth to open trading Hyman at the deadline.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 15, 2019, 11:52:30 AM
I think it's more likely we see Petan on waivers than lining up at centre for us at any point this season. It was obviously a pretty tiny sample size in limited minutes but Petan never really stood out much when he did get in the line-up. I have higher expectations for Agostino and I don't even have him in my projected healthy line-up. We'll see what happens, should be a good battle at camp for those last few roster spots.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 15, 2019, 12:56:07 PM
I think it's more likely we see Petan on waivers than lining up at centre for us at any point this season. It was obviously a pretty tiny sample size in limited minutes but Petan never really stood out much when he did get in the line-up. I have higher expectations for Agostino and I don't even have him in my projected healthy line-up. We'll see what happens, should be a good battle at camp for those last few roster spots.

I think you'll end up being right. I really would like to see Petan get some time with actual skill on his wings though. It's the same thing he ran into with Maurice in Winnipeg when he was mired on their 4th line grind unit with Stonehands McGee and Concrete Mitts.

Of the 4th line carousel of options, he and Spezza are the only ones that offer anything for the 2nd unit PP.

Tavares-Matthews-Nylander-Marner-Rielly
Mikheyev-Petan-Spezza-Johnsson-Barrie
into
Moore - Kerfoot - Kapanen - Muzzin-Ceci to return to 5v5
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 16, 2019, 08:19:12 AM
12. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/16/20806155/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-the-case-against-jeremy-bracco-12-toronto-marlies-nhl-ahl)

Marner-lite when drafted with an interesting skating quirk, and now a PP specialist whose path to the NHL is firmly blocked by Marner and Nylander. Unless our top-9 wings suddenly get really good at PK, there's no way Bracco gets into the 4th line either.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on August 16, 2019, 10:18:35 AM
12. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/16/20806155/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-the-case-against-jeremy-bracco-12-toronto-marlies-nhl-ahl)

Marner-lite when drafted with an interesting skating quirk, and now a PP specialist whose path to the NHL is firmly blocked by Marner and Nylander. Unless our top-9 wings suddenly get really good at PK, there's no way Bracco gets into the 4th line either.

Kind of surprising he's fallen so far. Can't he get on the third line at some point? He put up great point totals last year, I think he might be able to help out the big team. We'll see how he does in camp.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on August 16, 2019, 10:22:12 AM
12. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/16/20806155/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-the-case-against-jeremy-bracco-12-toronto-marlies-nhl-ahl)

Marner-lite when drafted with an interesting skating quirk, and now a PP specialist whose path to the NHL is firmly blocked by Marner and Nylander. Unless our top-9 wings suddenly get really good at PK, there's no way Bracco gets into the 4th line either.

Kind of surprising he's fallen so far. Can't he get on the third line at some point? He put up great point totals last year, I think he might be able to help out the big team. We'll see how he does in camp.

According to the article, he's Seth Griffith 2.0.

Guys like this don't really have a place in today's structured game.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 16, 2019, 10:26:46 AM
12. Jeremy Bracco (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/16/20806155/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-the-case-against-jeremy-bracco-12-toronto-marlies-nhl-ahl)

Marner-lite when drafted with an interesting skating quirk, and now a PP specialist whose path to the NHL is firmly blocked by Marner and Nylander. Unless our top-9 wings suddenly get really good at PK, there's no way Bracco gets into the 4th line either.

Kind of surprising he's fallen so far. Can't he get on the third line at some point? He put up great point totals last year, I think he might be able to help out the big team. We'll see how he does in camp.

He hasn't fallen so much as he just doesn't fill the NHL squad's gaps. Kapanen was a similar player of arguably lesser skill in certain capacities, but has leveraged an asset (speed) to fill a niche the Leafs needed (PK). Johnsson was primarily a PP sniper coming up the Swedish system and under Dubas/Keefe transformed into a stronger skating puck hound and garbage goal scoring threat (Dubas likens him to Arvidsson). Engvall was a large PP shooter that has developed a two-way game off of his size and skating. If Bracco can add one + level element to his off-puck game, he's in. As it stands, Bracco is on track to being Seth Griffith'd.

Edit: Frank beat me to it.

The comments in the article are amazingly similar to some of our conversations here lol
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Deebo on August 16, 2019, 11:22:14 AM
With 11 spots remaining on the list:

Locks to be on from last year:

Matthews
Marner
Nylander
Dermott
Kapanen
Johnsson
Sandin
Liljegrin
Moore

Probably off the list:

Timashov
Rasanen

My guess on the final 2:

Kerfoot
Robertson

(assuming herman's eligibility list is accurate)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on August 16, 2019, 11:44:49 AM

If that's true about Bracco and his prospects for helping the Leafs out then it means the Leafs will have gotten effectively nothing out of the #61, 65 and 68 picks from the 2015 draft which is a bit disappointing. Especially after Dubas' hard work to trade down 15 times.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 19, 2019, 08:31:29 AM
11. Nick Robertson (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/19/20806854/top-25-maple-leafs-prospects-under-25-nick-robertson-is-11)

Future Zach Hyman but with hands?!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 20, 2019, 08:47:58 AM
10. Trevor Moore (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/20/20812434/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects-ranking-top-25-under-25-trevor-moore-defies-the-odds-at-10-marlies-ahl)

Big booty big booty big booty
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 21, 2019, 08:54:42 AM
9. Timothy Liljegren (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/21/20802744/top-25-under-25-timothy-liljegren-slides-to-9)

He played hard minutes for the Marlies as a mostly 19 year old and got the Focus on Defense training regimen. And by all accounts, his defense has improved significantly.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 21, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
9. Timothy Liljegren (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/21/20802744/top-25-under-25-timothy-liljegren-slides-to-9)

He played hard minutes for the Marlies as a mostly 19 year old and got the Focus on Defense training regimen. And by all accounts, his defense has improved significantly.

I was pretty surprised to see Pronman rate both Bracco and Woll ahead of him recently. I think he should be comfortably ahead of both them at this point (as he is on these rankings) but we'll see what the future holds.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on August 21, 2019, 10:01:59 AM
9. Timothy Liljegren (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/21/20802744/top-25-under-25-timothy-liljegren-slides-to-9)

He played hard minutes for the Marlies as a mostly 19 year old and got the Focus on Defense training regimen. And by all accounts, his defense has improved significantly.

I was pretty surprised to see Pronman rate both Bracco and Woll ahead of him recently. I think he should be comfortably ahead of both them at this point (as he is on these rankings) but we'll see what the future holds.

I find it hard to believe Woll ought to be ranked ahead of Liljegren at this point.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 21, 2019, 10:40:19 AM
I find it hard to believe Woll ought to be ranked ahead of Liljegren at this point.

Bracco I at least somewhat understood because Pronman loves those types of players and he did put up serious numbers in the AHL this past season. But Woll? A voodoo goalie coming out of the NCAA who only put up average looking numbers throughout his career? He's even a year older than Liljegren. I feel like you'd have to think Woll has legitimate starting goalie potential to rank him that high and there's probably really only 1-3 goalie prospects league wide at any given point that I'd say that about.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 21, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
For reference:
Quote
Organizational Top 10 (23 and Under)
Auston Matthews, C (21)
Mitch Marner, RW (22)
William Nylander, C (23)
Kasperi Kapanen, RW (23)
Rasmus Sandin, D (19)
Travis Dermott, D (22)
Jeremy Bracco, RW (22)
Joseph Woll, G (21)
Nicholas Robertson, LW (17)
Timothy Liljegren, D (20)

I think the linearity of the list presentation obscures that he's probably ranking them in more of a tier and heavily favours offensive ceiling in his projections (a la Laine > Matthews). What puts Woll in the conversation likely has to do with positional value. An NHL backup goalie > 3rd pair D?

My ranking of the same list by ceiling is more like
Matthews
Marner, Nylander
Sandin, Dermott, Liljegren
Kapanen, Robertson
Woll
Bracco

but what do I know? I'm still tempted to slot Nylander over Marner by a narrow margin. Yeah it's different than my page 4 T25U25 rankings, but that was me guessing what PPP voters would do.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 22, 2019, 09:05:42 AM
8. Travis Dermott (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2019/8/22/20809933/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-travis-dermott-andreas-johnsson-kasperi-kapanen)

Dragging Ozhiganov around the ice apparently did a number on people's perception of Dermott.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 22, 2019, 09:50:49 AM
I know these rankings shouldn't be taken too seriously but I'll just say again that it's almost perversely stupid to include young full time NHLers on a "prospects" list. This list should start after Kapanen.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2019, 10:02:22 AM
I know these rankings shouldn't be taken too seriously but I'll just say again that it's almost perversely stupid to include young full time NHLers on a "prospects" list. This list should start after Kapanen.

I mean, it's not a prospects list.

We seem to have this conversation about this fun summer exercise every year and I don't get it. It's a top 25 under 25. Which players under 25 are most valuable to this franchise. It shouldn't be hard to look at a "young full time NHLer" like Trevor Moore and say Rasmus Sandin has more value to the franchise than him. Just apply that principal to every player.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on August 22, 2019, 10:10:19 AM

The aim of the list seems to be to weigh up the team's young talent and their organizational strengths going forward. I feel like we're all able to do the math of which guys are in the NHL and which guys aren't without hand holding.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 22, 2019, 10:38:34 AM
I know these rankings shouldn't be taken too seriously but I'll just say again that it's almost perversely stupid to include young full time NHLers on a "prospects" list. This list should start after Kapanen.

I mean, it's not a prospects list.

We seem to have this conversation about this fun summer exercise every year and I don't get it. It's a top 25 under 25. Which players under 25 are most valuable to this franchise. It shouldn't be hard to look at a "young full time NHLer" like Trevor Moore and say Rasmus Sandin has more value to the franchise than him. Just apply that principal to every player.

The title of the thread is ... Prospects.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2019, 10:42:23 AM
The title of the thread is ... Prospects.

So you'd really have no complaints about the process of the list, which is titled "Top 25 under 25" if I just moved it to it's own thread? That's really your only problem here?

It's in a prospects thread because the majority of the list deals with prospects.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 22, 2019, 10:58:27 AM
Words have meaning.  On a message board, it's kind of important.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2019, 11:04:23 AM
Words have meaning.  On a message board, it's kind of important.

Fine. I'll just recap then that you directly criticized Pension Plan Puppets, a blog that has nothing to do with TMLFans, and called their specific ranking system of players in the Leafs organization "almost perversely stupid" all because of where TMLFans, a forum that has nothing to do with PPP, choose to discuss said rankings.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 22, 2019, 11:50:20 AM
Words have meaning.  On a message board, it's kind of important.

Fine. I'll just recap then that you directly criticized Pension Plan Puppets, a blog that has nothing to do with TMLFans, and called their specific ranking system of players in the Leafs organization "almost perversely stupid" all because of where TMLFans, a forum that has nothing to do with PPP, choose to discuss said rankings.

Take it easy, CTB, nothing was meant personally.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 22, 2019, 12:08:49 PM
Lol
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on August 22, 2019, 12:12:46 PM
Words have meaning.  On a message board, it's kind of important.

Fine. I'll just recap then that you directly criticized Pension Plan Puppets, a blog that has nothing to do with TMLFans, and called their specific ranking system of players in the Leafs organization "almost perversely stupid" all because of where TMLFans, a forum that has nothing to do with PPP, choose to discuss said rankings.

Take it easy, CTB, nothing was meant personally.

 ::)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 22, 2019, 12:37:53 PM
Less facetiously, I will add that the thread still serves as a place to discuss prospects (usually outside of the NHL and AHL rosters) regardless of the PPP summer exercise that serves as the throughline.

I still name the thread like this to deliberately incite that annual “bUt HoW can TheY bE a PrOsPEct?” response, so here’s my self-congratulatory pat on the back.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 22, 2019, 12:46:50 PM
I guess another point of discussion is also about the term prospect in general. It’s rare but not impossible to see a young player break into the league pretty early on and sort of fizzle out in years 3-4 after the league catches on to their schtick (or luck reverses). Case in point Patrik Laine. There’s still development to be had there. There’s still uncertainty in his projection.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 23, 2019, 08:16:24 AM
7. Andreas Johnsson (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/23/20828595/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-andreas-johnsson-scored-his-way-to-7-matthews-kapanen-nylander)

Remember when Johnsson was spelled Johnson because neither he nor his father ever wanted to embarrass anyone by correcting them? That remarkably started in Sweden with his father’s equipment manager with Frolunda and carried over until a couple years ago with the Marlies.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 08:16:09 AM
6. Rasmus Sandin (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/26/20806238/maple-leafs-news-move-over-timothy-rasmus-sandin-is-now-the-leafs-top-prospect)

In the absence of first-hand knowledge, people will tend towards looking up points. Sandin is good and smart and basically a steal at 29, but still needs refinement time.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 26, 2019, 09:19:27 AM
6. Rasmus Sandin (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/26/20806238/maple-leafs-news-move-over-timothy-rasmus-sandin-is-now-the-leafs-top-prospect)

In the absence of first-hand knowledge, people will tend towards looking up points. Sandin is good and smart and basically a steal at 29, but still needs refinement time.

There was a twitter poll the other day (made by a Leafs fan with a large Leafs fan audience) that asked if people would still pick Sandin over Veleno if there was a re-draft. 88% of respondents said they'd stick with Sandin. That's still something I wonder about. Veleno was arguably the best player in the Q this past season. Let's hope this one doesn't turn into another Dermott/Aho situation.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 09:41:05 AM
Was there much gnashing of teeth over picking Dermott instead of Aho? Aho didn't really blow up Liiga until after he was drafted.

The only thing I remember of Aho back then was that he was a Spider-Man meme with a Swedish defenseman.

Edit: I'm re-reading the 2015 draft thread (https://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=3152.0). It's fun!

Edit 2: Literally zero remark from our crowd about Sebastian Aho (I guess we were still scratching our heads about Dermott).
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 26, 2019, 09:53:23 AM
Was there much gnashing of teeth over picking Dermott instead of Aho? Aho didn't really blow up Liiga until after he was drafted.

The only thing I remember of Aho back then was that he was a Spider-Man meme with a Swedish defenseman.

None at all if I remember correctly. It just stung when Babcock or something said a couple years ago that they strongly considered taking Aho in that spot.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 26, 2019, 09:55:37 AM
6. Rasmus Sandin (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/26/20806238/maple-leafs-news-move-over-timothy-rasmus-sandin-is-now-the-leafs-top-prospect)

In the absence of first-hand knowledge, people will tend towards looking up points. Sandin is good and smart and basically a steal at 29, but still needs refinement time.

There was a twitter poll the other day (made by a Leafs fan with a large Leafs fan audience) that asked if people would still pick Sandin over Veleno if there was a re-draft. 88% of respondents said they'd stick with Sandin. That's still something I wonder about. Veleno was arguably the best player in the Q this past season. Let's hope this one doesn't turn into another Dermott/Aho situation.

I voted Sandin... mostly because of organizational need.  Veleno very well may be the better prospect now and better player over his career.  He'd have to become Aho to make me regret it though (as long as Sandin becomes the top 4 guy we seem to all expect at this point). 
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on August 26, 2019, 10:23:29 AM

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 10:33:05 AM
Was there much gnashing of teeth over picking Dermott instead of Aho? Aho didn't really blow up Liiga until after he was drafted.

The only thing I remember of Aho back then was that he was a Spider-Man meme with a Swedish defenseman.

None at all if I remember correctly. It just stung when Babcock or something said a couple years ago that they strongly considered taking Aho in that spot.

They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 26, 2019, 10:37:42 AM

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

Yeah, Free Agency without a doubt hasn't been very helpful for attaining d-men.  The only scenario I can see whereby the Aho + D-man vs Tavares + Dermott works out (up until this point) is if the D-man in question is Jake Gardiner getting re-signed.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 26, 2019, 10:39:02 AM
Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

I wouldn't really make that assumption. I'd imagine Aho would have mostly played LW with the Leafs and they still would have gone after Tavares. Maybe in this universe they won't feel as pressured to sign Marleau.

It'd certainly have created cap issues for us though after his ELC was over, but heck who knows what this team could have done last season with an elite left winger to play with Matthews, especially during Nylander's absence.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: OldTimeHockey on August 26, 2019, 10:43:18 AM

Is the implication that if the Leafs had drafted Aho that they then wouldn't have signed Tavares? And then used the extra cap space to upgrade the defense?

Because while I don't think I'd definitively say the team would be worse in that respect, I'm not sure I'd look at what's gone on with defensemen in the free agent market and point to an obvious case of where the team could really have used that money.

Yeah, Free Agency without a doubt hasn't been very helpful for attaining d-men.  The only scenario I can see whereby the Aho + D-man vs Tavares + Dermott works out (up until this point) is if the D-man in question is Jake Gardiner getting re-signed.

I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 10:53:44 AM
I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.

I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man. I sort of think the Leafs would've missed out on Tavares without the Nylander + Marner combo.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 26, 2019, 10:54:29 AM
They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.

Yeah the 2015 draft was always a fun one to speculate about years after. Imagine this Leafs team with Werenski/Provarov + Aho instead of Marner + Dermott. Better? Worse? Who knows but fun to think about.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 26, 2019, 10:56:37 AM
I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man.

Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Maybe it means no Muzzin. Maybe Kapanen and/or Johnsson get traded. But Tavares would still be here.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 11:03:07 AM
They also strongly considered trading out of 4th if Marner was taken to try to get Werenski or Provarov. Knowing their almosts sort of is reassuring that they were eyeballing the good picks, given the information at the time.

Yeah the 2015 draft was always a fun one to speculate about years after. Imagine this Leafs team with Werenski/Provarov + Aho instead of Marner + Dermott. Better? Worse? Who knows but fun to think about.

I quite like our team at this stage, even if there are a few things I wish they had done/not done.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 26, 2019, 11:48:56 AM
I take Tavares & Dermott over Aho & Gardiner every day of the week. Last week too. Next week as well.

I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man. I sort of think the Leafs would've missed out on Tavares without the Nylander + Marner combo.

I'm fairly certain this started as a Sandin vs Veleno conversation.... and down the rabbit hole we've gone.  Its definitely August.   :P
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 26, 2019, 11:56:37 AM
If you’ve got something better to do, I’m open to suggestions...  :P
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on August 26, 2019, 12:07:02 PM
I think it'd look more like

Tavares + Marner + Dermott
vs
Werenski/Provarov + Aho + Gardiner + mystery pick (+ probably Bracco on the Leafs by now)

I'm fairly certain they would've gone Aho over Dermott if our 1st was a D-man.

Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Maybe it means no Muzzin. Maybe Kapanen and/or Johnsson get traded. But Tavares would still be here.

I think people are looking at it from Tavares's point of view.  He may not wanted to have come to Toronto if he didn't get to play with a winger like Marner.  Getting Aho instead of Dermot probably opens up options to them that they don't currently have.  They probably feel more comfortable moving someone like Nylander, when means that you may be able to bring in a D-man who is a little better than who Dermot is now.  So you still end up with a big 4 up front, but with one better d-man on the back end.  At least potentially, because you know, one decision doesn't usually happen in a vacuum.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Nik on August 26, 2019, 01:13:59 PM
Again I still don't buy the idea that this would definitely mean no Tavares. Getting a player of his elite talent and Toronto background for free/just cap space would still have been too much to pass on.

Just realistically, you couldn't have five forwards making 45-50 million of the cap. Maybe Tavares isn't the odd man out but someone would have to be.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 27, 2019, 08:39:55 AM
5. Alexander Kerfoot (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/27/20832267/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-alex-kerfoot-nazem-kadri-trade-maple-leafs-roster-leafs-stats)

He just made the cut off.

The Devils drafted Kerfoot but he elected free agency and signed with Colorado. Will Butcher was drafted by Colorado but elected for free agency and signed with New Jersey.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 28, 2019, 08:20:00 AM
4. Kasperi Kapanen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/28/20831980/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-kasperi-kapanen)

He’s a specialist with quite a bit of skill, but they’re slightly unbalanced at the moment. A bit more seasoning to learn when to use his blistering speed, and more time spent learning how to make plays at a higher speed will even things out at the next level. We have seen similar progress in Dylan Larkin, who has almost the same player profile. Kappy’s new cap hit is currently pretty fair but he can easily outpace it in value with some small tweaks to his game. I think Kerfoot will be a good match for him as Kapanen is a shoot-first-think-later type of player at the moment and Kerfoot is a very cerebral hold-it-forever centre.

Quote
What has to be remembered is that if his hands and brain could keep up with his feet, he wouldn’t be Kasperi Kapanen. He’d be Connor McDavid.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Zee on August 28, 2019, 10:23:16 AM
The suspense is killing me. Could Matthews, Marner and Nylander be 1-2-3?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 28, 2019, 10:29:56 AM
The suspense is killing me. Could Matthews, Marner and Nylander be 1-2-3?

I’ve already filled it out in advance.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 08:20:31 AM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 09:32:54 AM
2. Mitch Marner (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20813150/top-25-under-25-mitch-marner-cashes-in-at-2-players-rankings-leafs-sign-the-contract)

Can you believe how tentative we all were going into the 2016 season thinking that Marner would fit on the NHL team as maybe 13th forward for a bit to get his feet wet?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frycer14 on August 29, 2019, 09:47:44 AM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.

I like Nylander, but I'm really starting to dislike his fans. Instead of celebrating Marner's development and a truly superlative year, all I read is sour grapes because it wasn't nylander.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on August 29, 2019, 10:07:54 AM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.

Who the heck is #3 on the voter's list that had Nylander as #4?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 10:10:58 AM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.

I like Nylander, but I'm really starting to dislike his fans. Instead of celebrating Marner's development and a truly superlative year, all I read is sour grapes because it wasn't nylander.

Have you not seen the accolades for Marner? Who single-handedly turned John Tavares into John Tapvares?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 10:11:15 AM
Who the heck is #3 on the voter's list that had Nylander as #4?

Sandin
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 10:11:52 AM
1. Auston Matthews (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20836234/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-auston-matthews-still-the-king-stats)

What are we going to talk about now?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on August 29, 2019, 10:42:23 AM
Who the heck is #3 on the voter's list that had Nylander as #4?

Sandin

I just noticed that (went back through the other posts.) That's insane.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on August 29, 2019, 10:58:53 AM
1. Auston Matthews (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20836234/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-auston-matthews-still-the-king-stats)

What are we going to talk about now?

Can I suggest a deathmatch to settle whether Nylander should be no.2?

I know! Who should be the captain? Nylander or Nylander?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on August 29, 2019, 11:51:31 AM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.

I like Nylander, but I'm really starting to dislike his fans. Instead of celebrating Marner's development and a truly superlative year, all I read is sour grapes because it wasn't nylander.

I really don't recall that at all.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on August 29, 2019, 12:07:34 PM
3. William Nylander (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2019/8/29/20828728/maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25-william-nylander-is-3)

#3 on this list but #1 to meeeeeeee

Who knew that all it would take to break the forever-tie was a contract stalemate, delayed start, and terrible on-ice shooting luck, while Mitch Marner is assigned to flank one of the best 5v5 scorers and winger boosters in his prime.

I like Nylander, but I'm really starting to dislike his fans. Instead of celebrating Marner's development and a truly superlative year, all I read is sour grapes because it wasn't nylander.

I really don't recall that at all.

Remember when Gretzky was trending because people thought Marner was comparable to him...
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 03, 2019, 03:43:11 PM
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I remember there being a good debate here about whether Rantanen should have gone back to Europe instead of staying in the OHL. I had a side but can't remember which one I was on so I'll just assume I was right.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on September 03, 2019, 07:17:31 PM
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I remember there being a good debate here about whether Rantanen should have gone back to Europe instead of staying in the OHL. I had a side but can't remember which one I was on so I'll just assume I was right.
Did you mean Rin Tin Tin?  wag your options!
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 04, 2019, 08:59:05 AM
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I remember there being a good debate here about whether Rantanen should have gone back to Europe instead of staying in the OHL. I had a side but can't remember which one I was on so I'll just assume I was right.


Rasanen can definitely ask to be loaned to the OHL if he's not crazy about playing behind... Viktor Loov.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 04, 2019, 09:04:15 AM
Rasanen can definitely ask to be loaned to the OHL if he's not crazy about playing behind... Viktor Loov.

He'd be considered an overager now which might complicate things.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 04, 2019, 09:20:03 AM
Rasanen can definitely ask to be loaned to the OHL if he's not crazy about playing behind... Viktor Loov.

He'd be considered an overager now which might complicate things.

Ah, good eye.

The Marlies have Liljegren, Hollowell, Duszak, Lindgren down the right at the moment, with the possibility of Schmaltz or Holl getting waived down. So his path there is arguably even more blocked now. Loan to ECHL by way of Marlies?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on September 04, 2019, 09:25:19 AM
Rasanen can definitely ask to be loaned to the OHL if he's not crazy about playing behind... Viktor Loov.

He'd be considered an overager now which might complicate things.

Ah, good eye.

The Marlies have Liljegren, Hollowell, Duszak, Lindgren down the right at the moment, with the possibility of Schmaltz or Holl getting waived down. So his path there is arguably even more blocked now. Loan to ECHL by way of Marlies?

Is he good enough for the East Coast?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 04, 2019, 09:36:00 AM
The Marlies have Liljegren, Hollowell, Duszak, Lindgren down the right at the moment, with the possibility of Schmaltz or Holl getting waived down. So his path there is arguably even more blocked now. Loan to ECHL by way of Marlies?

I mean he'd still be better off in the Marlies press box all season long (and getting access to all their coaches/resources) than sitting on the bench every game in Europe where the coach probably doesn't even know his name.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 04, 2019, 09:49:22 AM
The Marlies have Liljegren, Hollowell, Duszak, Lindgren down the right at the moment, with the possibility of Schmaltz or Holl getting waived down. So his path there is arguably even more blocked now. Loan to ECHL by way of Marlies?

I mean he'd still be better off in the Marlies press box all season long (and getting access to all their coaches/resources) than sitting on the bench every game in Europe where the coach probably doesn't even know his name.

The funny-sad part is that he chose Jokerit because he admired the coach, Lauri Marjamaki (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-prospect-eemeli-rasanen-off-khl/).
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 04, 2019, 09:53:01 AM
The funny-sad part is that he chose Jokerit because he admired the coach, Lauri Marjamaki (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-prospect-eemeli-rasanen-off-khl/).

Never meet your heroes.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 05, 2019, 10:21:03 AM
https://theathletic.com/1184309/2019/09/05/hes-good-at-everything-leafs-prospect-mikko-kokkonen-has-always-been-ahead-of-the-curve

There's a pattern to the intangibles the Dubas era is targeting in players and hirings.

This profile reads a lot like Dermott and Sandin.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 06, 2019, 09:36:40 AM
https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/06/2019-prospect-rankings-joseph-woll/
Cat Silverman, goaltending consultant with the Coyotes, takes a look at Woll's game.

In case you missed it on the Rookie Tournament thread (which kicks off tonight), Woll was withdrawn from the roster due to a broken finger.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on September 06, 2019, 12:59:55 PM
I heard he was hit in the nose with a baseball. ;)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 09, 2019, 10:02:30 AM
A couple of Nick Robertson pieces out today, which is timely after his pretty strong showing in the Traverse City tournament so far:
https://theleafsnation.com/2019/09/09/2019-leafs-prospect-rankings-the-maybes-nick-robertson/
https://theathletic.com/1190445/2019/09/09/he-likes-to-be-exhausted-leafs-prospect-nick-robertson-wont-let-anything-slow-him-down/
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on September 16, 2019, 09:54:50 AM

Same team as currently injured defenseman Mikko Kokkonen.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 24, 2019, 09:47:21 AM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects/2019/10/23/20927301/toronto-maple-leafs-prospect-report-semyon-der-arguchintsev-fight-suspension-ohl-petes-tag-bertuzzi

SDA got suspended for fighting Friday night. You can tell the dude he fought is a POS for 3 reasons: 1) he punches SDA a bunch of times while he's on the ground, 2) he's Todd Bertuzzi's son, and 3) his name is freakin' Tag.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on October 24, 2019, 10:13:20 AM
Lol
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on October 24, 2019, 10:43:30 AM
More importantly, I think that's the first time I've heard SDA's name spoken out loud. Is that the proper pronunciation?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 24, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
More importantly, I think that's the first time I've heard SDA's name spoken out loud. Is that the proper pronunciation?

It sounds like he was saying DAR instead of DER-AR. You can hear SDA himself pronounce it here: https://soundcloud.com/peterborough-petes/der-arguchintsev-semyon

Granted, I couldn't blame announcers for not saying it 100% right.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 24, 2019, 03:00:09 PM
I really hope both of these Petes make it.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on October 24, 2019, 03:20:11 PM
Is that for Pete's sake or your own?   ;D
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on October 29, 2019, 06:56:22 PM
So, Korshkov might actually turn out to be a player. 

He's followed up his strong camp by putting up 5 goals in 8 games so far with the Marlies.

I can't believe it. 
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on October 29, 2019, 06:59:34 PM
He was always at least a good prospect. The problem was drafting him ahead of some better bets in Girard and Debrincat.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 29, 2019, 07:04:14 PM
So, Korshkov might actually turn out to be a player. 

He's followed up his strong camp by putting up 5 goals in 8 games so far with the Marlies.

I can't believe it. 
He's a big kid that plays the rougher type of game as well. Kid has a great shot and can skate pretty good. I liked him from the first game I saw him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on October 29, 2019, 07:05:21 PM
He was always at least a good prospect. The problem was drafting him ahead of some better bets in Girard and Debrincat.

I don't think he was always a good prospect at all.  There was criticism at the time, and I think it was warranted, and he never put up any big numbers in the KHL.

Most around here, including me, had written him off a long time ago.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 29, 2019, 07:15:46 PM
I've always been an EGOR Korshkov supporter.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on October 29, 2019, 07:25:57 PM
He was always at least a good prospect. The problem was drafting him ahead of some better bets in Girard and Debrincat.

I don't think he was always a good prospect at all.  There was criticism at the time, and I think it was warranted, and he never put up any big numbers in the KHL.

Most around here, including me, had written him off a long time ago.

If you know the KHL, you’ll know prospects don’t really get minutes (unless they’re like top 5 caliber). Korshkov had no opportunity to do anything.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 29, 2019, 07:27:33 PM
He was always at least a good prospect. The problem was drafting him ahead of some better bets in Girard and Debrincat.

I don't think he was always a good prospect at all.  There was criticism at the time, and I think it was warranted, and he never put up any big numbers in the KHL.

Most around here, including me, had written him off a long time ago.

If you know the KHL, you’ll know prospects don’t really get minutes (unless they’re like top 5 caliber). Korshkov had no opportunity to do anything.
I think that's part of the reason he came across the pond?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 07, 2019, 09:12:19 AM
Top Leaf prospect rankings as of November 2019:


The next eight (to round out the top ten) are:

3.  Timothy Liljegren               RHD
4.  Jeremy Bracco                    LW
5.  Joseph Woll                         F
6.  Semyon Der-Arguchintsev  C/RW
7.  Mikko Kokonen                  LHD
8.  Mac Hollowell                    RHD
9,  Joey Duszak                      RHD
10. Mikhail Abramov               C/LW[/b]
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on November 07, 2019, 11:15:32 AM
That's a woeful list of prospects, which should be alarming to everyone.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on November 07, 2019, 12:12:31 PM
That's a woeful list of prospects, which should be alarming to everyone.
A lot of our young players who would qualify on this list are already on the team
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on November 07, 2019, 12:39:22 PM
That's a woeful list of prospects, which should be alarming to everyone.
Why, I can see at least 6 on the team at some point; Sandin, Launchinpad, Roberstson, Woll,Hollowell and perhaps Bracco.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on November 07, 2019, 01:17:07 PM
That's a woeful list of prospects, which should be alarming to everyone.
Why, I can see at least 6 on the team at some point; Sandin, Launchinpad, Roberstson, Woll,Hollowell and perhaps Bracco.
I agree. I think they've got some good prospects. If right wing wasn't so loaded right now, Bracco would be here. Korshkov is looking like a player too.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on November 07, 2019, 01:48:46 PM
That's a woeful list of prospects, which should be alarming to everyone.
Why, I can see at least 6 on the team at some point; Sandin, Launchinpad, Roberstson, Woll,Hollowell and perhaps Bracco.
I agree. I think they've got some good prospects. If right wing wasn't so loaded right now, Bracco would be here. Korshkov is looking like a player too.
Also the list is limited to on those signed at draft or NHL contracts thus we get no mention of Justin Brazeau, Hudson Elynuik, Kristians Rubins and Co.), are ineligible.

Brazeau and Hudson are sleepers, Rubins is with the Marlies and 6'5" all the time.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on November 10, 2019, 01:13:47 PM
And if Hutchison should fail or go down in battle, who will pick up the torch of back up and carry it into the warring fray?............perhaps;

Kasimir Kaskisuo stopped 29 of 31 shots he faced. Kaskisuo is now 6-1-1-0 on the season with a .927 Save Percentage and a 2.13 Goals Against Average.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on December 11, 2019, 02:54:14 PM
Just reading the European prospect report at PPP.

Seems Räsänen is not getting much playing time.  One would think he would highly benefit from a year on the Growlers and then some Marlies time... Seems like a wasted resource and strange Dubas is not flexing his muscles on this guy.
Perhaps wants to distance himself from all of Hunter's big man choices.  Or perhaps there is not any upside at all which I find bizarre. From all accounts he can skate Ok, is 6'6" all the time and likes to hit people, which means sandpaper

On the other hand Kara is getting some kudo's. Another guy who should be in our system.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on January 07, 2020, 06:49:12 PM
Joseph Woll has started 16 games, and has a 6-8 record with 3.50 GAA and an .892 SV%.

In comparison, Kaskisuo has started 18 games, and has an 11-4 record with 2.57 GAA and .914 SV%.

Do we think that there's cap space to re-sign Andersen after next season?



Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 07, 2020, 08:28:07 PM
Joseph Woll has started 16 games, and has a 6-8 record with 3.50 GAA and an .892 SV%.

In comparison, Kaskisuo has started 18 games, and has an 11-4 record with 2.57 GAA and .914 SV%.

Do we think that there's cap space to re-sign Andersen after next season?




Depends on the ask. Pretty sure if Freddie doesn't fall of the edge of the earth next year, they'll try to re-sign him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on January 08, 2020, 10:32:18 AM
Freddie will be what 31-32 by the end of next year.  I would be hesitant to over anyone over 32 a long term deal and Freddie may want another 5 year deal.  I would be good for a 3 year at a slight increase. 
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on January 08, 2020, 10:38:03 AM
Freddie will be what 31-32 by the end of next year.  I would be hesitant to over anyone over 32 a long term deal and Freddie may want another 5 year deal.  I would be good for a 3 year at a slight increase.

Given what Bob and Price got, Andersen is going to feel he's worth a lot more than a mild raise on a 3-year deal.

Suppose Andersen asks for 8 million over 7 years.  Do you let him go to free agency?  What other goaltender do you try to sign?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on January 08, 2020, 11:25:54 AM
Don't think we can afford that price or term. No more Robidas Island deals. I am going to worry about this one in about a year.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bullfrog on January 08, 2020, 01:51:44 PM
Too bad he didn't have one more year on his contract, because Kessel's $1.2M comes off the cap in 2022.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 08, 2020, 02:00:00 PM
Too bad he didn't have one more year on his contract, because Kessel's $1.2M comes off the cap in 2022.
1.2 mill isn't going to be the difference maker with Freddie. You always find a way to sign your core guys. Leafs could also not re-sign Hyman who is a UFA and give him that 2.25. What's it going to take for the Leafs to say sign or see ya to him?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on January 22, 2020, 11:39:06 AM
We don't quite have a Timothy Liljegren thread yet, but there's an indepth video breakdown of how his game has progressed and evolved (for those that can read it)

https://theathletic.com/1549114/2020/01/22/video-scouting-report-why-maple-leafs-prospect-timothy-liljegrens-game-is-ready-for-the-nhl/

Quote
When the Leafs drafted Liljegren in 2017, he was an offence-first blueliner with lousy defence and decision-making. As Liljegren enters the NHL, that player is hardly recognizable. Liljegren’s defence and decision-making are his defining characteristics, the characteristics that could make him a mainstay with the Leafs for years to come.

In the two seasons preceding Liljegren’s draft, he didn’t show much in the way of defensive skill and awareness. Sure, he had some ability to make stops thanks to his quickness, but he also stood around his net with no purpose. He let attackers move around him unimpeded. 

Now, Liljegren’s off-puck defence is his best defensive attribute. It’s impressive. He can lockdown fast-moving attacks with such efficiency that it would be surprising if it doesn’t translate to the NHL. He reads the play a step-ahead and making a probability-based decision on where to head next.

This is one of those instances where a raw player's offensive instincts have successfully translated to the inverse ability.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on January 22, 2020, 11:50:42 AM
its a great article and one of the main reasons I love The Athletic so much.  The reporting in all sports is top notch. Hope we keep Liljegren up with us after the break.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on January 22, 2020, 02:16:21 PM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2020/1/22/21073984/toronto-marlies-ranked-in-the-top-25-under-25-where-are-they-now-maple-leafs-prospects-analysis-ahl

PPP is doing a bit of 'hindsight is 2020' during the bye-week...

Trying not to overthink this

1. Auston Matthews (1)
2. Mitch Marner (2)
3. William Nylander (3)
4. Kasperi Kapanen (4)
5. Travis Dermott (8 )
6. Alexander Kerfoot (5)
7. Andreas Johnsson (7)
8. Rasmus Sandin (6)
9. Timothy Liljegren (9)
10. Nic Petan (13)
11. Trevor Moore (10)
12. Ilya Mikheyev (14)
13. Nick Robertson (11)
14. Egor Korshkov (21)
15. Jeremy Bracco (12)
16. Teemu Kivihalme (NR)
17. Pierre Engvall (18)
18. Joseph Woll (16)
19. Ian Scott (17)
20. Mac Hollowell (15)
21. Joseph Duszak (25)
22. Semyon Der Arguchintsev (22)
23. Adam Brooks (19)
24. Kasimir Kaskisuo (NR)
25. Mikko Kokkonen (20)

I haven't really seen enough of the back half to be even remotely sure.

I was too high on:
Dermott, Petan, Moore, Bracco

I think I was too low on:
Mikheyev, Engvall, Brooks
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: hockeyfan1 on January 22, 2020, 02:53:21 PM
its a great article and one of the main reasons I love The Athletic so much.  The reporting in all sports is top notch. Hope we keep Liljegren up with us after the break.


x2
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 22, 2020, 03:35:46 PM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2020/1/22/21073984/toronto-marlies-ranked-in-the-top-25-under-25-where-are-they-now-maple-leafs-prospects-analysis-ahl

PPP is doing a bit of 'hindsight is 2020' during the bye-week...

Trying not to overthink this

1. Auston Matthews (1)
2. Mitch Marner (2)
3. William Nylander (3)
4. Kasperi Kapanen (4)
5. Travis Dermott (8 )
6. Alexander Kerfoot (5)
7. Andreas Johnsson (7)
8. Rasmus Sandin (6)
9. Timothy Liljegren (9)
10. Nic Petan (13)
11. Trevor Moore (10)
12. Ilya Mikheyev (14)
13. Nick Robertson (11)
14. Egor Korshkov (21)
15. Jeremy Bracco (12)
16. Teemu Kivihalme (NR)
17. Pierre Engvall (18)
18. Joseph Woll (16)
19. Ian Scott (17)
20. Mac Hollowell (15)
21. Joseph Duszak (25)
22. Semyon Der Arguchintsev (22)
23. Adam Brooks (19)
24. Kasimir Kaskisuo (NR)
25. Mikko Kokkonen (20)

I haven't really seen enough of the back half to be even remotely sure.

I was too high on:
Dermott, Petan, Moore, Bracco

I think I was too low on:
Mikheyev, Engvall, Brooks
Always liked Brooks from the first game I saw him play live for the Marlies. Same with Engvall. I think Bracco could be an NHLer but he's totally an offensive guy. Elite passing skills.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on January 23, 2020, 09:22:43 AM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects/2020/1/23/21075367/looking-at-mikhail-abramovs-remarkable-transformation-this-season-maple-leafs-prospects-draft-picks

Abramov is shooting up the internal rankings
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Hobbes on January 23, 2020, 09:52:03 AM
Wheeler did a prospect ranking today in The Athletic (https://theathletic.com/1548161/2020/01/23/wheelers-2020-nhl-prospect-pool-rankings-no-21-toronto-maple-leafs/?source=dailyemail) (he's counting a few of the former top prospects as having graduated to the NHL now, notably Sandin).

1. Robertson
2. Liljegren
3. Bracco
4. Abramov
5. SDA
6. Abruzzese
7. Woll
8. Kokkonen
9. Hollowell
10. Duszak
11. Kral
12. Koster
13. Scott
14. Lindgren
15. Kara
16. Luchuk
17. Rasanen
18. Loponen
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 23, 2020, 03:00:28 PM
https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects/2020/1/23/21075367/looking-at-mikhail-abramovs-remarkable-transformation-this-season-maple-leafs-prospects-draft-picks

Abramov is shooting up the internal rankings
Kid sounds promising.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 02, 2020, 02:20:25 PM
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on April 22, 2020, 01:49:35 PM
https://theathletic.com/1703496/2020/04/22/the-gifted-how-maple-leafs-prospect-mikhail-abramov-redefined-his-game/

Quote
This series has always been about prospects who’ve used one skill, or a particular combination of them, to unique ends. The ones who’ve found different ways than most to impact a game. In theory, these players represent some of the most fascinating case studies in the game. Their difference can be studied and picked apart, producing along the way (I hope) insights into the dynamism of the sport and the varied ways the game is being played.

The Gifted has, in that pursuit, likely ignored players who haven’t just found one skill (or approach) to build their game around. This year, as I prepared my list of potential subjects for the series, I wanted to take a closer look at a player who, in some way or another, markedly changed their game.

I wanted to study a shapeshifter of sorts. A player who knew his best skills, or his single approach, wasn’t likely to be enough to propel him to the next level and found a new — potentially better — way of using his tools

And there may be no player whose change was as perceptible as Mikhail Abramov’s.

This one's interesting.

When the Leafs drafted him, Abramov appeared to be a player in the mold of a Semyon Der-Arguchintsev: pass-first playmaking center.  One dev camp later: he doubled his goal production without losing any playmaking, outpacing his next highest scoring teammate by nearly 2x.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 12, 2020, 11:16:05 AM
https://theathletic.com/1799870/2020/05/12/hes-a-workhorse-why-the-leafs-signed-filip-kral-to-an-entry-level-contract

5th rd pick in 2018; another forward who converted from forward to defense at 14 years old because of his hockey sense and puck mobility. He'll likely follow a similar path as Holl, Hollowell, and Rubins in splitting his first season on the Growlers and getting time on the Marlies to begin adjusting his game speed.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on May 12, 2020, 02:06:02 PM
I like the kidz tude, took a step back to come to N.A. and said in the article;

 “(Some players) want everything right now and after that, they are stressed and mad,” Kral told The Athletic over the phone recently from his home in Blansko. “I don’t like these players. I’m a little bit of the opposite.”

Workhorse, smart, could end up being a very good late pick.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on May 12, 2020, 02:20:23 PM
https://theathletic.com/1799870/2020/05/12/hes-a-workhorse-why-the-leafs-signed-filip-kral-to-an-entry-level-contract

5th rd pick in 2018; another forward who converted from forward to defense at 14 years old because of his hockey sense and puck mobility. He'll likely follow a similar path as Holl, Hollowell, and Rubins in splitting his first season on the Growlers and getting time on the Marlies to begin adjusting his game speed.

Interessante.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 20, 2020, 11:52:33 AM
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 20, 2020, 11:54:34 AM

Signs you should not have been in the OHL... 82 pts as a defenseman in a shortened season.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 20, 2020, 11:57:51 AM
Signs you should not have been in the OHL... 82 pts as a defenseman in a shortened season.

That was also only 5th on his team in scoring, two other overagers were in the top-5 with him. Guessing that was a hell of a powerplay unit.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 20, 2020, 12:05:37 PM
Signs you should not have been in the OHL... 82 pts as a defenseman in a shortened season.

That was also only 5th on his team in scoring, two other overagers were in the top-5 with him. Guessing that was a hell of a powerplay unit.

They had the best PP in the league @ 29.8%
He and Marco Rossi just feeding Jack Quinn and co.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on May 21, 2020, 08:54:15 PM
Nifty article on SDA. Got a couple clips that break down his

https://jhanhky.substack.com/p/semyon-der-arguchintsev-the-little
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: princedpw on May 21, 2020, 08:55:12 PM

Signs you should not have been in the OHL... 82 pts as a defenseman in a shortened season.

Jeeze how old is he?
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on May 21, 2020, 09:29:49 PM

 He's 21.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on May 21, 2020, 10:19:34 PM

 He's 21.
Wow that's old for an OHLer.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 25, 2020, 10:28:04 AM
https://theathletic.com/1826556/2020/05/25/mind-over-matter-the-gift-that-defines-maple-leafs-prospect-nick-abruzzese/

Nick Abruzzese recognized his physical limitations and took the Frank Catalanotto approach (https://vault.si.com/vault/2004/04/05/a-model-of-efficiency-costeffective-and-statistically-solid-the-face-of-the-information-age-is-frank-catalanotto) to gaining advantage over his opponents.

Quote
[Ryan] Hardy [, current Chicago Steel GM] wanted people to know what type of player Abruzzese could become. He regularly sent out tweets in 2019-20 hyping his performances. (Hardy’s tweets have since been deleted)

In March 2019, Hardy received a text message from Leafs general manager Kyle Dubas. He didn’t want word of Abruzzese’s exploits spreading more than it already had.

“(Dubas) said, ‘Hey, stop tweeting about Nick Abruzzese. You accomplished what you set out to do,’” said Hardy. “I texted him back, saying, ‘OK, but you better pick him if I’m gonna stop tweeting about him.’”

“We tried to just stay quiet and hoped to select him later on because we felt the fit was great for Nick with the Leafs,” Dubas said via email recently.

Just minutes before the final pick of the fourth round of the 2019 draft, with the Leafs on the clock, Dubas texted Hardy: “It’s time.”

Knowing how much Hardy had advocated for Abruzzese, Dubas wanted him to be watching live when the Leafs selected him.

Hardy quickly shot Abruzzese a text: “Pay me.”

Further confirmation that the Leafs under Dubas are drafting (and courting free agent) hockey nerds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHJhcpiw9v8
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 25, 2020, 11:10:07 AM
I forgot Abruzzese was a D+2 pick. That slightly tempers my excitement for his success this season but he still sounds like a great kid. Hopefully he continues to progress and that story about getting drafted is something all Leafs fans know.

This is completely speculation, but I wonder if there's any chance of him turning pro next season. Who knows what colleges/college sports will look like next season. Having his old coach with the Marlies now could be a selling point.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 25, 2020, 12:07:55 PM
I forgot Abruzzese was a D+2 pick. That slightly tempers my excitement for his success this season but he still sounds like a great kid. Hopefully he continues to progress and that story about getting drafted is something all Leafs fans know.

This is completely speculation, but I wonder if there's any chance of him turning pro next season. Who knows what colleges/college sports will look like next season. Having his old coach with the Marlies now could be a selling point.

I think at the 18-20 age range, there is still so much variation in body types and maturation that the +1 and +2 doesn't bother me too much depending on how the player is generating his success. In Abruzzese's case, his body is still on the small side for pro hockey but his mind has been progressing very obviously (and sharply). If We had drafted him his initial eligibility and he hit this stride D+2/3, I'd still be pretty pleased. His standout asset is also one that does not depreciate with age (at least within playing ages).

I thought I saw a comment somewhere that he's jumping pro 2021

Ah here it is in the comments section of the article:
Joshua Kloke: I had a few people tell me they thought he'd try to make the jump to pro in 2021. I guess a lot depends on what Harvard's season ends up looking like in 20/21.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: herman on May 28, 2020, 12:13:06 PM
Abruzzese and Der-Arguchintsev and Abramov (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-prospects/2020/1/23/21075367/looking-at-mikhail-abramovs-remarkable-transformation-this-season-maple-leafs-prospects-draft-picks) have the hockey minds to potentially succeed at the NHL level. Matthews, Marner, and Nylander have similar minds but they've also got the physical tools and wherewithal to pull off the plays that they foresee.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Frank E on June 05, 2020, 11:29:03 AM
Didn't really know where to put this, but Sean Day was released by the Rangers.

He sounds like a Dubas & co. project in the waiting.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 05, 2020, 01:06:58 PM
Didn't really know where to put this, but Sean Day was released by the Rangers.

He sounds like a Dubas & co. project in the waiting.

Could be worth an AHL contract and invite to camp. Might be a case where he needs the right coach/staff/etc. to help him put things together.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Guilt Trip on June 05, 2020, 01:59:45 PM
Didn't really know where to put this, but Sean Day was released by the Rangers.

He sounds like a Dubas & co. project in the waiting.

Could be worth an AHL contract and invite to camp. Might be a case where he needs the right coach/staff/etc. to help him put things together.
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 05, 2020, 02:03:02 PM
Dubas want the 10 million dollar brain 8)
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Bender on June 05, 2020, 02:13:24 PM
Didn't really know where to put this, but Sean Day was released by the Rangers.

He sounds like a Dubas & co. project in the waiting.

Could be worth an AHL contract and invite to camp. Might be a case where he needs the right coach/staff/etc. to help him put things together.
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.

10 cent brain  ;D
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: bustaheims on June 05, 2020, 02:42:42 PM
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.

Which is exactly why he might need the right coach/etc. That side of things can be improved through coaching, training, skills development, and so on. If he has the physical tools - which he appears to - the rest can be worked on.

Also, you know, AHL contract. Pretty low risk.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 05, 2020, 03:42:35 PM
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.

Which is exactly why he might need the right coach/etc. That side of things can be improved through coaching, training, skills development, and so on. If he has the physical tools - which he appears to - the rest can be worked on.

Also, you know, AHL contract. Pretty low risk.
Agreed, hard to give up a 22 year old defensemen who is 6'2" and almost 230Lb.  Supposedly an excellent skater.  Perhaps they can inject some Bobby Orr brain cells into him.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: OldTimeHockey on June 05, 2020, 05:04:55 PM
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.

Which is exactly why he might need the right coach/etc. That side of things can be improved through coaching, training, skills development, and so on. If he has the physical tools - which he appears to - the rest can be worked on.

Also, you know, AHL contract. Pretty low risk.

Pretty good write up here.
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-new-york-rangers-have-cut-ties-with-sean-day

I tend to agree with not giving exceptional status to players. Especially ones that are not a consensus exceptional player.

I've never understood the concept of pushing a player to play above their heads. Let them enjoy being the big fish. Let them experience being the leader and gaining that skill that they may be lacking. When you're really good, the game slows down for you. Why force them to play at a skill level that's too fast for them to process. Let them enjoy playing a game that seems to be moving slower.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: Highlander on June 10, 2020, 12:58:34 PM
Noel Hoefenmayer who we picked up for a sack of pea's or nothing, has been declared the CHL Defenseman of the year.  Hope he is a pleasant surprise. I like Dubas signings, the Russians and the rest.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: L K on June 10, 2020, 02:16:39 PM
He actually doesn't because by all accounts he doesn't think the game very well. The old million dollar body/ 10 cent brain scenario doesn't bode well.

Which is exactly why he might need the right coach/etc. That side of things can be improved through coaching, training, skills development, and so on. If he has the physical tools - which he appears to - the rest can be worked on.

Also, you know, AHL contract. Pretty low risk.

Pretty good write up here.
https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-new-york-rangers-have-cut-ties-with-sean-day

I tend to agree with not giving exceptional status to players. Especially ones that are not a consensus exceptional player.

I've never understood the concept of pushing a player to play above their heads. Let them enjoy being the big fish. Let them experience being the leader and gaining that skill that they may be lacking. When you're really good, the game slows down for you. Why force them to play at a skill level that's too fast for them to process. Let them enjoy playing a game that seems to be moving slower.

Is it really that fair of a statement on the program when we are talking about seven players granted exceptional status.  Three of them are really good NHL players.  One is still a well regarded prospect

John Tavares - a 1st overall pick
Aaron Ekblad - a 1st overall pick
Connor McDavid - a 1st overall pick
Joe Veleno - a 1st round pick and played in the AHL as a 19 year old
Shane Wright - >PPG in his rookie OHL season
Connor Bedard - granted exceptional status this year
Sean Day

I think there is a better argument for maybe not granting exceptional status for defensemen.
Title: Re: Ranking Prospects 2019-2020
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 10, 2020, 02:34:00 PM
Is it really that fair of a statement on the program when we are talking about seven players granted exceptional status.  Three of them are really good NHL players.  One is still a well regarded prospect

I wanted to go back and see what the reaction to Day earning the status was and even in the first article I looked at it says there were people who seemed skeptical that he deserved it:

Quote from: https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/sean-day-the-latest-to-be-granted-exceptional-status
But just how exceptional is Day? There was some speculation he might not receive exceptional status because there is a chance that neither the Ottawa 67’s nor the Erie Otters, who own the first two picks in the OHL draft April 6, intend to choose Day. And one scout who has seen the other three exceptional players in their junior draft years said Day is not at their level.

“From what I saw, he was nowhere near a player who dominated at his level of competition,” the scout said. “Not even close.”

The article also suggests that politics may have played a part here as it's speculated he would have gone the NCAA route had he not been granted it.

I also just did a quick check and it looks like Day was the only "exceptional" player to play his U15 hockey outside of Canada. Maybe that played a role here too. If the CHL doesn't have a complete knowledge of all the training/development systems a player goes through in Michigan as they would in Toronto then they probably shouldn't be looking at players from there for something like this.