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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: disco on April 07, 2019, 02:26:20 PM

Title: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 07, 2019, 02:26:20 PM
It has begun. :D
Boston Bruins (A2 - 107pts) vs. Toronto Maple Leafs (A3 - 100pts)

Thursday, April 11, 7 p.m.: Maple Leafs @ Bruins | NBCSN, SN, CBC, TVA Sports
Saturday, April 13, 8 p.m.: Maple Leafs @ Bruins | NBC, CBC, TVA Sports
Monday, April 15, 7 p.m.: Bruins @ Maple Leafs | CBC, TVA Sports, NBCSN
Wednesday, April 17, 7 p.m.: Bruins @ Maple Leafs | CBC, TVA Sports, NBCSN
*Friday, April 19, TBD: Maple Leafs @ Bruins | TBD
*Sunday, April 21, TBD: Bruins @ Maple Leafs | TBD
*Tuesday, April 23, TBD: Maple Leafs @ Bruins | TBD
* if necessary

Different from last year:
- John Tavares.
- Matthews is healthy (revealed a back issue after last series).
- Kadri will (hopefully) ride the physical line without a suspension.
- All young players a year older and wiser.
- Stronger down the middle and arguably stronger on D with the addition of Muzzin.

Different over the regular season:
- Everyone giving 100% every minute of every game with heightened attention to detail.
- Some timely physical play, now an investment with a series on the line.

Leafs in 6.


Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 07, 2019, 02:27:52 PM
Going to stay positive.....Leafs in 6. JT will be the difference maker this time around.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: AtomicMapleLeaf on April 07, 2019, 03:24:38 PM
Time to put the Babsocks on.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Frycer14 on April 07, 2019, 03:34:38 PM
This will be fun. Too close to call an outcome, but I really want to see which leaf players elevate their game, and which ones don't - and make off season adjustments accordingly.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 07, 2019, 03:43:35 PM
Going to stay positive.....Leafs in 6. JT will be the difference maker this time around.

Put me down for this too.   To hell with what my head is telling me.  Shut up, Head.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 07, 2019, 03:53:46 PM
What is different for the Bruins this time?  How did they manage the league’s 2nd best record despite many injuries to top players?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: lamajama on April 07, 2019, 04:49:52 PM
Going to get flamed for this but based on last 30+ games the Leafs will be hard pressed to win even 2.

Obviously and incredibly simple but if having Rosen in with our other 5 and IF Freddie can get some actual help from
the D AND the F we might push it to 7.

I just hope somehow we can contain or limit the top line and Chara's bones seize up.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 07, 2019, 04:58:19 PM
Prayer might work. Then again....

I'm hopeful the Leafs can play their best and win the series; finally getting over the hump, but I'm not expecting it. Even though they've only really lost to Boston once with this core (2013 was totally different), it just *feels* like they're our nemesis.

Reminds me of the feeling I had in 1992 with the Jays vs Oakland in the ACLS, Jays always seemed to lose to the A's, Eckersley would close the door late and the Jays couldn't win. I didn't believe the Jays would win that series. Then Alomar hit that home run, and everything changed. Older folk on here will know what I'm talking about.

Every playoff year I hope for the best but expect the worst. So here goes another kick at the can.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: AtomicMapleLeaf on April 07, 2019, 05:26:38 PM
I'm seriously hoping (praying to the Bob Cole gods) that we've been playing possum for the last 2 months. I mean we knew we were playing Boston since like August. So maybe Babcock is a secret genius? He did get bounced out of the first round after winning the President's cup.

I know, a girl can dream.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: TML fan on April 07, 2019, 05:38:58 PM
Bruins in 6, and only because they slack off after going up 3-0.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Rob on April 07, 2019, 05:39:27 PM
I'm seriously hoping (praying to the Bob Cole gods) that we've been playing possum for the last 2 months. I mean we knew we were playing Boston since like August. So maybe Babcock is a secret genius? He did get bounced out of the first round after winning the President's cup.

I know, a girl can dream.

A season long rope a dope!  Leafs come out guns blazing and finish the Bruins in 4. 
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 07, 2019, 06:30:00 PM
I'm seriously hoping (praying to the Bob Cole gods) that we've been playing possum for the last 2 months. I mean we knew we were playing Boston since like August. So maybe Babcock is a secret genius? He did get bounced out of the first round after winning the President's cup.

I know, a girl can dream.

A season long rope a dope!  Leafs come out guns blazing and finish the Bruins in 4.


Lol let's hope man
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 08, 2019, 08:17:10 AM
Dress 7 D, put Moore with Kadri and Kapanen and use them solely against Bergeron's line, double shift Matthews/Nylander with Marleau and Brown on the 4th line and hope Andersen doesn't let in any ridiculously soft, blue-line goals. If all of this happens......Leafs in 6. Otherwise....Bruins in 3  :-X
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 08:21:20 AM
Dress 7 D, put Moore with Kadri and Kapanen and use them solely against Bergeron's line, double shift Matthews/Nylander with Marleau and Brown on the 4th line and hope Andersen doesn't let in any ridiculously soft, blue-line goals. If all of this happens......Leafs in 6. Otherwise....Bruins in 3  :-X

The Leafs didn't sign one of the only centres on the planet probable capable of shutting down Bergeron only to play two 3rd liners and a 4th liner against him instead.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 08:26:44 AM
How did they manage the league’s 2nd best record despite many injuries to top players?

Bergeron, 16 games
Pastranak, 16 games
McAvoy, 28 games
Krug, 18 games
Chara, 20 games
           Matthews, 14 games
Nylander, 28 games
Gardiner, 20 games
Dermott, 18 games
Andersen, 7 games

From what I can tell these were the primary injuries on both teams. I'm not saying that each player beside each other is directly comparable (Pasta is obviously vastly outperforming Nylander this season) but it's somewhat close.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 08, 2019, 08:27:25 AM
Dress 7 D, put Moore with Kadri and Kapanen and use them solely against Bergeron's line, double shift Matthews/Nylander with Marleau and Brown on the 4th line and hope Andersen doesn't let in any ridiculously soft, blue-line goals. If all of this happens......Leafs in 6. Otherwise....Bruins in 3  :-X

The Leafs didn't sign one of the only centres on the planet probable capable of shutting down Bergeron only to play two 3rd liners and a 4th liner against him instead.

Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 08:29:14 AM
Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...

Kadri, maybe. But Moore and Kapanen would get eaten alive out there.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 08, 2019, 08:47:19 AM
Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...

Kadri, maybe. But Moore and Kapanen would get eaten alive out there.

I don't see how it can possibly be any worse than how badly that line outplayed us last playoff. I like the idea of letting the Kadri line try to neutralize that threat as best as possible and having the others dominate offensively. And I think Moore will be a heck of a lot more effective than Marleau at this stage.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 08, 2019, 08:59:17 AM
Going to get flamed for this but based on last 30+ games the Leafs will be hard pressed to win even 2.

Obviously and incredibly simple but if having Rosen in with our other 5 and IF Freddie can get some actual help from
the D AND the F we might push it to 7.

I just hope somehow we can contain or limit the top line and Chara's bones seize up.

If we're relying on Rosen to be the difference maker, we're already sunk.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 08, 2019, 09:05:44 AM
How did they manage the league’s 2nd best record despite many injuries to top players?

Bergeron, 16 games
Pastranak, 16 games
McAvoy, 28 games
Krug, 18 games
Chara, 20 games
           Matthews, 14 games
Nylander, 28 games
Gardiner, 20 games
Dermott, 18 games
Andersen, 7 games

From what I can tell these were the primary injuries on both teams. I'm not saying that each player beside each other is directly comparable (Pasta is obviously vastly outperforming Nylander this season) but it's somewhat close.

That’s a nice comparison. Thanks.

The other aspect of my question is how the bruins managed to improve this year.  I mean, we got Tavares ... why did they do so well? Their backup goaltender?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 08, 2019, 09:22:57 AM
Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...

Kadri, maybe. But Moore and Kapanen would get eaten alive out there.

I don't see how it can possibly be any worse than how badly that line outplayed us last playoff. I like the idea of letting the Kadri line try to neutralize that threat as best as possible and having the others dominate offensively. And I think Moore will be a heck of a lot more effective than Marleau at this stage.

Bergeron’s line is possibly the best in hockey so anyone will struggle.  Still, Kapanen seems as well suited to defending against them as any winger on the leafs (yes, there would be competition from Marner and Hyman) — fast, strong, good back checker and good in transition. Moore, i have less data on but he has shown himself a relentless back checker as well who can help with possession and transition.

Any line that plays against Bergeron is going to find its offense suppressed. I’d rather have Kadri’s offense suppressed than Tavares.

But a tweak I would do would probably be to play Tavares in the offensive zone and Kadri in the D zone against them. They are going to play 22+ minutes per night so there is going to be more than one line against them anyway (i dont want to play kadri for 20+ minutes)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 09:41:53 AM
Bergeron’s line is possibly the best in hockey so anyone will struggle.  Still, Kapanen seems as well suited to defending against them as any winger on the leafs (yes, there would be competition from Marner and Hyman) — fast, strong, good back checker and good in transition. Moore, i have less data on but he has shown himself a relentless back checker as well who can help with possession and transition.

Those types of physical traits aren't the key to defending the Bergeron line, otherwise any team with a good bottom-6 could do it. It's hockey sense, which is also the key to the Bergeron's line success. And depite how hard they work guys like Kapanen and Moore aren't elite in that area. That's what separates the star players from the 3rd or 4th liners. If you want to shut down or at least limit Bergeron and Marchand you need players who think the game as well as they do, and that means Tavares and Marner.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 08, 2019, 09:47:22 AM
What is different for the Bruins this time?  How did they manage the league’s 2nd best record despite many injuries to top players?
They didn't manage all those points when everyone was injured. They went on one of the biggest runs in history picking up points in 18 straight games? Can't sustain that forever. They sputtered near the end just like us. Rask has worse numbers than Andersen in the last month.

The Leafs were as good in almost every metric over the last month as the Bruins, just one happened to get wins and one didn't. I think that's why a bunch of us aren't as down on the team.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 08, 2019, 09:49:40 AM
Oh, Leafs in 7!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 08, 2019, 09:53:37 AM
Oh, Leafs in 7!

I want no part of game 7.  I know it's irrational and the past series have no bearing on this year, but losing twice in game 7 in Boston in recent memory just makes me nervous. I don't want to see the trifecta of a third straight game 7 loss
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 08, 2019, 09:57:40 AM
How did they manage the league’s 2nd best record despite many injuries to top players?

Bergeron, 16 games
Pastranak, 16 games
McAvoy, 28 games
Krug, 18 games
Chara, 20 games
           Matthews, 14 games
Nylander, 28 games
Gardiner, 20 games
Dermott, 18 games
Andersen, 7 games

From what I can tell these were the primary injuries on both teams. I'm not saying that each player beside each other is directly comparable (Pasta is obviously vastly outperforming Nylander this season) but it's somewhat close.

That’s a nice comparison. Thanks.

The other aspect of my question is how the bruins managed to improve this year.  I mean, we got Tavares ... why did they do so well? Their backup goaltender?

They didn't?

They won 1 fewer game and have 5 fewer points than last year.    They scored 11 fewer goals and gave up 1 more goal than last year.  They had a shockingly similar year to last year.  Bergeron missed his usual 15 or so games.  They traded losing games from Pastrnak but getting additional games out of Marchand.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 08, 2019, 10:00:53 AM
Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...

Kadri, maybe. But Moore and Kapanen would get eaten alive out there.

I don't see how it can possibly be any worse than how badly that line outplayed us last playoff. I like the idea of letting the Kadri line try to neutralize that threat as best as possible and having the others dominate offensively. And I think Moore will be a heck of a lot more effective than Marleau at this stage.

If we are playing Kadri the most most and constantly chasing the Marchand line around the ice we lose this series.  The Leafs need to get away from this line vs. line matchup approach.  Our depth is better than Boston's.  Boston's 1st line is a better individual line because it is loaded up in a way that we don't use our forwards.  Boston's 4th line is better than our 4th line.  Don't roll 4 lines but just try to not get bad lines caught against each other.  The 4th line can't get caught out against the first line.

We simply don't have a line built to shut down a 100 point player and trying to line match that way just limits how much time Tavares and Matthews get on the ice.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 10:35:45 AM
Prayer might work. Then again....

I'm hopeful the Leafs can play their best and win the series; finally getting over the hump, but I'm not expecting it. Even though they've only really lost to Boston once with this core (2013 was totally different), it just *feels* like they're our nemesis.

Reminds me of the feeling I had in 1992 with the Jays vs Oakland in the ACLS, Jays always seemed to lose to the A's, Eckersley would close the door late and the Jays couldn't win. I didn't believe the Jays would win that series. Then Alomar hit that home run, and everything changed. Older folk on here will know what I'm talking about.

Every playoff year I hope for the best but expect the worst. So here goes another kick at the can.
Anything can happen, that unexpected Alomar homerun in a game the Jays were supposed to loose turned into TWO world series.

I am having a hard time believing they can win. The Leafs have been bad for a large portion of the season and didn't correct it going into the playoffs. I am not even sure Babcock knows his lines yet? Is Marleau going to be on Matthews wing? I certainly hope not. Reilly needs to be playing 30 minutes per game and Tavares/Matthews need a lot of ice time as well. If Babcock plays Kadri 30 minutes a game chasing the Bergeron line we're done before this starts. We have the depth, roll the best and let them chase.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: bustaheims on April 08, 2019, 10:38:54 AM
I think the team needs to get away from having a single line focused on shutting down another specific line. Spread the work across the top 3 lines - they can all handle it to various degrees - and focus on playing your game rather than reacting to the way the other team plays. Play to your strengths, not theirs.

Leafs in 7.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 10:55:31 AM
I think the team needs to get away from having a single line focused on shutting down another specific line. Spread the work across the top 3 lines - they can all handle it to various degrees - and focus on playing your game rather than reacting to the way the other team plays. Play to your strengths, not theirs.

Leafs in 7.
Babs will be rolling Brown and Hyman the whole game. It's so predictable, just play your best as much as possible.

I just looked at the stat sheets from last years playoffs and the ice time distribution amongst the Leafs forward was way to flat. Hyman led the forwards in ice time most games. Boston's distribution so obviously favored their best players. Why can't Babcock figure this out? Play your best and play them A LOT! Komarov went from a lot of ice time to scratched when we all knew the scratch should have taken place when choosing the playoff rosters. I hope Babcock gets out of the way this time around.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: RedLeaf on April 08, 2019, 10:56:15 AM
This will be fun. Too close to call an outcome, but I really want to see which leaf players elevate their game, and which ones don't - and make off season adjustments accordingly.

If last year‘s playoffs were any indication I bet we see Marner and Kapenen raise their games a notch or 2. I also bet Tavares plays lights out along with (hopefully) Anderson. The other key players that must UP their games for the Leafs to prevail are Matthews, and NYLANDER.

BTW. Who remembers when the sens we’re supposed to beat us in four straight games? They beat us every regular season game that year too.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 11:09:53 AM

Probable game 1 defence pairings. I still wish we got to see more of Muzzin-Rielly, but this gives us 3 pairings that Babs will trust against any Bruins line.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 11:19:27 AM
Forward lines at the first post-season practice:

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
Moore-Gauthier-Brown

Nylander and Matthews split up. Don't love it, I think that they're at their best together, but if all goes well it'd give the Leafs a huge advantage in the L3 match-up. Also it's not like that's set in stone.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 11:48:15 AM
Forward lines at the first post-season practice:

Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
Moore-Gauthier-Brown

Nylander and Matthews split up. Don't love it, I think that they're at their best together, but if all goes well it'd give the Leafs a huge advantage in the L3 match-up. Also it's not like that's set in stone.
Glad Marleau in not on Matthews line but I wish Nylander was. Nylander on a "shutdown" line is a little worrisome. I would swap Nylander and Kapanen.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 11:57:36 AM
Glad Marleau in not on Matthews line but I wish Nylander was. Nylander on a "shutdown" line is a little worrisome. I would swap Nylander and Kapanen.

It's not a shutdown line.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 12:04:58 PM
Lines from Boston's first post-season practice:

Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak
DeBrusk-Krejci-Kuhlman
Johansson-Coyle-Heinen
Nordstrom-Acciari-Wagner

Chara-McAvoy
Krug-Carlo
Grzelcyk-Kampfer

Somewhat noticeably absent from that group is David Backes, who at least projects to be a healthy scratch in game 1. Backes is well past his prime but I'm still a little surprised he isn't on the 4th line there. Without him Boston's forwards really don't seem that much bigger/stronger than ours.

John Moore, Kevan Miller, and Sean Kuraly will all likely start the series on the IR but might appear later on. Miller is a big, physical presence on their blueline so again they lose a bit of their size advantage there.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 12:09:46 PM
Glad Marleau in not on Matthews line but I wish Nylander was. Nylander on a "shutdown" line is a little worrisome. I would swap Nylander and Kapanen.

It's not a shutdown line.
Agreed. Thankfully, it looks like Babs will be trusting his best against theirs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 12:16:58 PM
Boston's two trade deadline-ish acquisitions haven't exactly panned out for them so far. Marcus Johansson has just 1 goal and 3 points in 10 games and missed 10 games with a lung contusion injury. Charlie Coyle has just 2 goals and 6 points in 21 games since becoming a Bruin. Ryan Donato, the guy he was traded for, had 16 points in 22 games with Minnesota post-trade.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 08, 2019, 12:44:50 PM
Kadri has shown he is capable of playing very well defensively against top centres. And then you can use those two other elite centres to destroy the Bruins' inferior 2nd and 3rd lines. I actually think it's a pretty good strategy but hey, I thought Luca Caputi was gonna make it...

Kadri, maybe. But Moore and Kapanen would get eaten alive out there.

I don't see how it can possibly be any worse than how badly that line outplayed us last playoff. I like the idea of letting the Kadri line try to neutralize that threat as best as possible and having the others dominate offensively. And I think Moore will be a heck of a lot more effective than Marleau at this stage.

If we are playing Kadri the most most and constantly chasing the Marchand line around the ice we lose this series.  The Leafs need to get away from this line vs. line matchup approach.  Our depth is better than Boston's.  Boston's 1st line is a better individual line because it is loaded up in a way that we don't use our forwards.  Boston's 4th line is better than our 4th line.  Don't roll 4 lines but just try to not get bad lines caught against each other.  The 4th line can't get caught out against the first line.

We simply don't have a line built to shut down a 100 point player and trying to line match that way just limits how much time Tavares and Matthews get on the ice.

Oh I agree with most of that. I certainly wasn't suggesting that Kadri's line plays all the minutes. I just want them, when they're on the ice, matched against Bergeron's as often as you can. I think they could wear that line down a little bit. But by no means should Trevor Moore be getting more minutes than, say, William Nylander.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 01:23:40 PM
John Moore, Kevan Miller, and Sean Kuraly will all likely start the series on the IR but might appear later on. Miller is a big, physical presence on their blueline so again they lose a bit of their size advantage there.

Not going to be able to victimize Miller and McQuaid on the regular this time around :(
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 08, 2019, 01:26:23 PM

I predict an orderly series that will eliminate the need for a violent bloodbath.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 08, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
This will be fun. Too close to call an outcome, but I really want to see which leaf players elevate their game, and which ones don't - and make off season adjustments accordingly.

If last year‘s playoffs were any indication I bet we see Marner and Kapenen raise their games a notch or 2. I also bet Tavares plays lights out along with (hopefully) Anderson. The other key players that must UP their games for the Leafs to prevail are Matthews, and NYLANDER.

BTW. Who remembers when the sens we’re supposed to beat us in four straight games? They beat us every regular season game that year too.

Was that the year we swept the Sens in the playoffs?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 01:48:59 PM
https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428 (https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428)
2 of 15 picked the Leafs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 08, 2019, 02:01:37 PM
https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428 (https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428)
2 of 15 picked the Leafs.

That confidence level of 13.33% from the experts!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 08, 2019, 02:09:20 PM
Boston's two trade deadline-ish acquisitions haven't exactly panned out for them so far. Marcus Johansson has just 1 goal and 3 points in 10 games and missed 10 games with a lung contusion injury. Charlie Coyle has just 2 goals and 6 points in 21 games since becoming a Bruin. Ryan Donato, the guy he was traded for, had 16 points in 22 games with Minnesota post-trade.

I knew that Donato trade was bad as soon as it was made.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 02:11:56 PM
https://theathletic.com/899580/2019/04/08/the-maple-leafs-under-pressure-rankings-whos-under-the-biggest-microscope-in-the-playoffs/

Quote
4. William Nylander
From Jan. 20 onward, Tavares, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner were the only Leafs to outscore Nylander, who managed 24 points over the final 35 games. The Leafs pounded teams when he was out there with five a side, grabbing 58 percent of the scoring chances and 63 percent of the goals.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 02:15:58 PM

This is going to be a fun series.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 08, 2019, 02:46:10 PM
https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428 (https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428)
2 of 15 picked the Leafs.

That confidence level of 13.33% from the experts!

Hey that's better odds than some fans would give them.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 08, 2019, 02:53:47 PM
https://theathletic.com/899580/2019/04/08/the-maple-leafs-under-pressure-rankings-whos-under-the-biggest-microscope-in-the-playoffs/

Quote
4. William Nylander
From Jan. 20 onward, Tavares, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner were the only Leafs to outscore Nylander, who managed 24 points over the final 35 games. The Leafs pounded teams when he was out there with five a side, grabbing 58 percent of the scoring chances and 63 percent of the goals.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

24 in 35 is only a 56-point pace over a full 82-game season.  It's not enough for a guy being paid 6.9 million/year.  He is under pressure to show he deserves that contract.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 03:04:10 PM
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 03:10:03 PM
24 in 35 is only a 56-point pace over a full 82-game season.  It's not enough for a guy being paid 6.9 million/year.  He is under pressure to show he deserves that contract.

*sobs* and then... *sniff* and then he... *hic* he waited until the last 40 minutes to *sniff* call Dubas... and signed such an expensive deal! I just don't know why he didn't just take that 5M x 8 yr deal in July!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 03:11:11 PM
24 in 35 is only a 56-point pace over a full 82-game season.  It's not enough for a guy being paid 6.9 million/year.  He is under pressure to show he deserves that contract.

*sobs* and then... *sniff* and then he... *hic* he waited until the last 40 minutes to *sniff* call Dubas... and signed such an expensive deal! I just don't know why he didn't just take that 5M x 8 yr deal in July!
July of 2017
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Joe S. on April 08, 2019, 03:44:24 PM
Listening to the radio the last 2 days is confusing. Basically the leafs will get pummeled in the first round, have no chance of winning and for the reasons that all these experts have been saying all season; lack of denfesive talent.

However, when they lose it’ll be a big disappointment and should Babcock continue to coach this team.

How can it be a disappointment if that’s the expectation? And if it’s a talent issue then why should the coach pay for it?

Personally I never thought this was the leafs year and it’s unfortunate the way the playoff format has pitted these 2 games against each other. But I just don’t understand how on the one hand you expect them to lose and on the other hand be disappointed when they do. That’s
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 08, 2019, 03:54:45 PM
Listening to the radio the last 2 days is confusing. Basically the leafs will get pummeled in the first round, have no chance of winning and for the reasons that all these experts have been saying all season; lack of denfesive talent.

However, when they lose it’ll be a big disappointment and should Babcock continue to coach this team.

How can it be a disappointment if that’s the expectation? And if it’s a talent issue then why should the coach pay for it?

Personally I never thought this was the leafs year and it’s unfortunate the way the playoff format has pitted these 2 games against each other. But I just don’t understand how on the one hand you expect them to lose and on the other hand be disappointed when they do. That’s
Is it his fault the D isn't great, no.

However, if he plays role players more then Matthews and Marner again he should be fired. Looking at the practice lines it seems that Babs is planning matching best on best this time around. Last year Babcock was a large reason they lost. This year he cannot be out coached, not at his salary.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 08, 2019, 04:48:37 PM
In case you're wondering what the rationale is for splitting up Matthews and Nylander (initially)...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/08/mike-babcock-on-playoff-hockey-the-real-world-is-coming-right-away-here-no-time-no-space/

Quote
You have the luxury of Matthews and Tavares, they have the luxury of Bergeron and Krejci. How much do you think this series will come down to who among those stars will be able to beat the others?

Babcock: It is, but a lot of the times those guys cancel each other out and it is the rest of the guys that matter. The more depth you have, the better off you are. But there is no question I have been in a lot of playoff series where your stars had no points after the first round and hardly any after two rounds, but by the end, they were leading the team in scoring. The other guys got them through. That is what depth on a team is all about. That is the great thing about hockey: It is a team game. You need everybody. You need all 20 guys. All 20 guys are going to have to play well. That is what makes it fun.

It's going to be a lot of Marleau-Kadri-Nylander, Gardiner-Dermott vs Boston's bottom 6 and third pair...
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 08, 2019, 05:02:49 PM


It's going to be a lot of Marleau-Kadri-Nylander, Gardiner-Dermott vs Boston's bottom 6 and third pair...
Agreed and that's what i think he put Willy there. Kadri's line has to win it's battle.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 08, 2019, 05:11:40 PM
In case you're wondering what the rationale is for splitting up Matthews and Nylander (initially)...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/08/mike-babcock-on-playoff-hockey-the-real-world-is-coming-right-away-here-no-time-no-space/

Quote
You have the luxury of Matthews and Tavares, they have the luxury of Bergeron and Krejci. How much do you think this series will come down to who among those stars will be able to beat the others?

Babcock: It is, but a lot of the times those guys cancel each other out and it is the rest of the guys that matter. The more depth you have, the better off you are. But there is no question I have been in a lot of playoff series where your stars had no points after the first round and hardly any after two rounds, but by the end, they were leading the team in scoring. The other guys got them through. That is what depth on a team is all about. That is the great thing about hockey: It is a team game. You need everybody. You need all 20 guys. All 20 guys are going to have to play well. That is what makes it fun.

It's going to be a lot of Marleau-Kadri-Nylander, Gardiner-Dermott vs Boston's bottom 6 and third pair...

In the past, he has done different things on the road vs home.  I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks this kind of spread is more advantageous on the road and then switches to Matthews-Nylander (and avoid matching them against Bergeron) at home.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 08, 2019, 05:14:20 PM
In case you're wondering what the rationale is for splitting up Matthews and Nylander (initially)...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/08/mike-babcock-on-playoff-hockey-the-real-world-is-coming-right-away-here-no-time-no-space/

Quote
You have the luxury of Matthews and Tavares, they have the luxury of Bergeron and Krejci. How much do you think this series will come down to who among those stars will be able to beat the others?

Babcock: It is, but a lot of the times those guys cancel each other out and it is the rest of the guys that matter. The more depth you have, the better off you are. But there is no question I have been in a lot of playoff series where your stars had no points after the first round and hardly any after two rounds, but by the end, they were leading the team in scoring. The other guys got them through. That is what depth on a team is all about. That is the great thing about hockey: It is a team game. You need everybody. You need all 20 guys. All 20 guys are going to have to play well. That is what makes it fun.

It's going to be a lot of Marleau-Kadri-Nylander, Gardiner-Dermott vs Boston's bottom 6 and third pair...

The only problem is that we have had plenty of that line in the last 30 games and it really hasn't been effective at putting the puck in the net.  Marleau has been hit by the old tree, and Kadri and Nylander are paying sins for who knows what as the hockey gods apparently hate them.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: nutman on April 08, 2019, 05:41:52 PM
Leafs in 6 is my call. I just feel there due.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 08, 2019, 06:21:57 PM
https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428 (https://www.nhl.com/news/stanley-cup-playoffs-first-round-predictions-by-nhlcom-staff-members/c-306567428)
2 of 15 picked the Leafs.

That confidence level of 13.33% from the experts!

Hey that's better odds than some fans would give them.


That's true; I'm one of them too :(
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 08, 2019, 06:25:20 PM
In case you're wondering what the rationale is for splitting up Matthews and Nylander (initially)...

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2019/04/08/mike-babcock-on-playoff-hockey-the-real-world-is-coming-right-away-here-no-time-no-space/

Quote
You have the luxury of Matthews and Tavares, they have the luxury of Bergeron and Krejci. How much do you think this series will come down to who among those stars will be able to beat the others?

Babcock: It is, but a lot of the times those guys cancel each other out and it is the rest of the guys that matter. The more depth you have, the better off you are. But there is no question I have been in a lot of playoff series where your stars had no points after the first round and hardly any after two rounds, but by the end, they were leading the team in scoring. The other guys got them through. That is what depth on a team is all about. That is the great thing about hockey: It is a team game. You need everybody. You need all 20 guys. All 20 guys are going to have to play well. That is what makes it fun.

It's going to be a lot of Marleau-Kadri-Nylander, Gardiner-Dermott vs Boston's bottom 6 and third pair...

The only problem is that we have had plenty of that line in the last 30 games and it really hasn't been effective at putting the puck in the net.  Marleau has been hit by the old tree, and Kadri and Nylander are paying sins for who knows what as the hockey gods apparently hate them.
I don't think Willy or Kadri are paying for sins. Simply, neither has been overly good this year. Both can redeem themselves in the playoffs. I think Marleau will be fine come playoff time. I think he cranks it up.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: lamajama on April 08, 2019, 09:02:15 PM
Listening to the radio the last 2 days is confusing. Basically the leafs will get pummeled in the first round, have no chance of winning and for the reasons that all these experts have been saying all season; lack of denfesive talent.

However, when they lose it’ll be a big disappointment and should Babcock continue to coach this team.

How can it be a disappointment if that’s the expectation? And if it’s a talent issue then why should the coach pay for it?

Personally I never thought this was the leafs year and it’s unfortunate the way the playoff format has pitted these 2 games against each other. But I just don’t understand how on the one hand you expect them to lose and on the other hand be disappointed when they do. That’s
Is it his fault the D isn't great, no.

However, if he plays role players more then Matthews and Marner again he should be fired. Looking at the practice lines it seems that Babs is planning matching best on best this time around. Last year Babcock was a large reason they lost. This year he cannot be out coached, not at his salary.

I agree with all you state and add that to me TEAM D is his fault. Yes we want “better” D but all teams have issues on their blueline (in this case). His inability to get the team to adhere to some type of D in their own end is very disturbing to me. Either that or his system does not work.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Frank E on April 08, 2019, 09:23:52 PM
https://theathletic.com/899580/2019/04/08/the-maple-leafs-under-pressure-rankings-whos-under-the-biggest-microscope-in-the-playoffs/

Quote
4. William Nylander
From Jan. 20 onward, Tavares, Auston Matthews and Mitch Marner were the only Leafs to outscore Nylander, who managed 24 points over the final 35 games. The Leafs pounded teams when he was out there with five a side, grabbing 58 percent of the scoring chances and 63 percent of the goals.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

This might be Nylander's series to win it for the team.  Goodness knows he's got the talent, but let's see him get down and dirty.  If the 2 top lines go head to head, then maybe it's Kadri's line that's the difference maker in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 08, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
Leafs in 6 is my call. I just feel there due.
You know, I never thought I'd say this before, but we really need you posting more
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 08, 2019, 09:55:20 PM
Listening to the radio the last 2 days is confusing. Basically the leafs will get pummeled in the first round, have no chance of winning and for the reasons that all these experts have been saying all season; lack of denfesive talent.

However, when they lose it’ll be a big disappointment and should Babcock continue to coach this team.

How can it be a disappointment if that’s the expectation? And if it’s a talent issue then why should the coach pay for it?

Personally I never thought this was the leafs year and it’s unfortunate the way the playoff format has pitted these 2 games against each other. But I just don’t understand how on the one hand you expect them to lose and on the other hand be disappointed when they do. That’s
Is it his fault the D isn't great, no.

However, if he plays role players more then Matthews and Marner again he should be fired. Looking at the practice lines it seems that Babs is planning matching best on best this time around. Last year Babcock was a large reason they lost. This year he cannot be out coached, not at his salary.

I agree with all you state and add that to me TEAM D is his fault. Yes we want “better” D but all teams have issues on their blueline (in this case). His inability to get the team to adhere to some type of D in their own end is very disturbing to me. Either that or his system does not work.
Well I mean just listening to Good Show today I believe it was Bourne or one of them who said Trotz took the Isles from last in goals against to first in on year. I'm sure part of it is luck/goaltending but I do believe a lot of it is a sound structure.

Then again I'm sure not all his Washington teams were all that great defensively.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: princedpw on April 08, 2019, 10:15:44 PM
24 in 35 is only a 56-point pace over a full 82-game season.  It's not enough for a guy being paid 6.9 million/year.  He is under pressure to show he deserves that contract.

*sobs* and then... *sniff* and then he... *hic* he waited until the last 40 minutes to *sniff* call Dubas... and signed such an expensive deal! I just don't know why he didn't just take that 5M x 8 yr deal in July!

I have never said any such things.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 08, 2019, 10:59:30 PM
The Leafs can win this series but they aren't going to out-defense the Bruins, out-grind them, out-muscle them.  The defense has to be better than it has recently, but the way we win this is by playing to our strengths, which are on offense.  Even though things will be much tighter, we have to keep the speed game going as much as possible.  The only other way we can win the series is if Andersen has an insanely good run.

It's a narrow path for us, narrower than theirs, but not impossible by any stretch.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 09, 2019, 08:29:26 AM
I’m praying to the hockey gods.  😁

Leafs in 6.  (I’m too superstitious to say 7). 

I believe we have more than a chance to defeat Boston.  Our offence and our goaltending will be our strengths, as has been the case all year.  Probably not enough to beat the Bruins but I’m still banking on the Leafs to take it.

Let’s face it, the playoffs are a different season and what transpired between these two clubs over the course of the regular season may not be an indication of what most are expecting to see (the Bruins handily winning it).
It may very well be th Leafs turn this time.

GO LEAFS GO!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 09, 2019, 09:12:56 AM
Just a comparison but a significant one.  All the more reason to stay optimistic.

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 09, 2019, 09:21:22 AM
Quote
One other thing that several players pointed out in the aftermath of that loss is they felt they got away from their game at times in the series. They were trying to be more aggressive and be more like the Bruins.

They laid far more hits than they did during the regular season – 31 per game, up from 20, which was almost as many as Boston in the series – and took some dumb penalties.

The Leafs were shorthanded 21 times in the seven games, six more than the Bruins.

A year later, they realize they have to be who they are and rely on their skill to win.

“When we’re playing our best game, it doesn’t matter (how physical they are),” Hyman explained. “When we’re playing fast and we’re playing hard, we have the puck the majority of the game. When we’re not giving the other team much space, it doesn’t matter how tough they are. If they don’t have the puck, it doesn’t make a difference really to us. We can outskate anybody I think. We’re a really tenacious team and have really skilled players. If we’re moving and playing the right way, we’re going to have the puck a lot.”

YES (sorry azzuri)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 09, 2019, 11:26:00 AM
"What this series really needs is a game." - Jim Hughson
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Hobbes on April 09, 2019, 12:12:39 PM
As much as I hate to say it, I think the Bruins in 7 is the most likely result. The Leafs lack the discipline to play a Bruins style of game and the Bruins will have 4 home games with which to dictate the match-ups. Unless the Leafs go on a shooting percentage tear, I just don't see them getting over the hump. If it does go 7, Bruins will advance.

The one good outcome from this might be to teach the lesson that Tampa seems to have learned: every single regular season game matters, no matter who you're playing or when it is, so play like it. The Leafs took too many "easy games" off this year and it probably cost them home ice advantage...and the series.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2019, 12:16:58 PM
As much as I hate to say it, I think the Bruins in 7 is the most likely result. The Leafs lack the discipline to play a Bruins style of game and the Bruins will have 4 home games with which to dictate the match-ups.

As others have said, the Leafs aren't beating the Bruins by playing a Bruins style of game. They're beating them by playing a Leafs style of game. Why create a fast-paced, offensive team if you're just going to abandon that type of style when the games mean the most?

And for what it's worth, it seems like the Bruins could be adjusting to Toronto's game more than the other way around. Cassidy talked just today about how they're going to try and ice the fastest roster they can (which means no David Backes to start).
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 09, 2019, 12:28:28 PM
As much as I hate to say it, I think the Bruins in 7 is the most likely result. The Leafs lack the discipline to play a Bruins style of game and the Bruins will have 4 home games with which to dictate the match-ups.

As others have said, the Leafs aren't beating the Bruins by playing a Bruins style of game. They're beating them by playing a Leafs style of game. Why create a fast-paced, offensive team if you're just going to abandon that type of style when the games mean the most?

And for what it's worth, it seems like the Bruins could be adjusting to Toronto's game more than the other way around. Cassidy talked just today about how they're going to try and ice the fastest roster they can (which means no David Backes to start).

True, but Hobbes' points about the regular season and home ice stand.   It would be nice to have, especially for a young team.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 09, 2019, 12:31:16 PM
As Carlton outlined, the problem isn't going to be whether or not we can play Bruins' style hockey, it's whether we can maintain our composure against a patient counter-attacking team if the percentages don't break our way in the early goings. Our high flying offense got stymied by cloggy boring teams whenever we hit the post early and tried opening up further and got burned on DZ blue line turnovers. That's where we have to stay in our process to keep playing with the puck, stretching their D when the opportunity arises, and generating dangerous chances, and building 2nd, 3rd, 4th efforts (which is what Tampa does well).
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Hobbes on April 09, 2019, 12:34:34 PM
As much as I hate to say it, I think the Bruins in 7 is the most likely result. The Leafs lack the discipline to play a Bruins style of game and the Bruins will have 4 home games with which to dictate the match-ups.

As others have said, the Leafs aren't beating the Bruins by playing a Bruins style of game. They're beating them by playing a Leafs style of game. Why create a fast-paced, offensive team if you're just going to abandon that type of style when the games mean the most?

And for what it's worth, it seems like the Bruins could be adjusting to Toronto's game more than the other way around. Cassidy talked just today about how they're going to try and ice the fastest roster they can (which means no David Backes to start).

I didn't say that properly. I'm not suggesting the Leafs try to play Bruins style hockey. I'm suggesting that the Leafs' high skill up-tempo speed style of play doesn't match up well against the Bruins' style when the Bruins have last change and can dictate the match-ups.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2019, 12:48:51 PM
I didn't say that properly. I'm not suggesting the Leafs try to play Bruins style hockey. I'm suggesting that the Leafs' high skill up-tempo speed style of play doesn't match up well against the Bruins' style when the Bruins have last change and can dictate the match-ups.

Ah ok, yeah I get that then. Boston is probably the toughest match-up league-wide for the Leafs stylistically. It really blows that odds are we'll see 3 straight years of us having to get past them in the 1st round. But it is what it is.

I really don't think not having last change is going to be a determining factor in this series though. Boston is going to put the Bergeron line out against the Tavares unit, but Babcock is going to want that same match-up as well. It's not like last year where Boston wanted Bergeron vs. Matthews and Babcock wanted Kadri/Plekanec vs. Bergeron. So I mean I just don't think not having home ice would have really changed things in that particular regard.

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 09, 2019, 01:00:45 PM

This is 100% an avoid Chara vs Nylander thing.  He really struggled up against Chara last year.

So, if Cassidy is going to play Chara vs Matthews line- you'll see Kapanen on Matthews wing.  If Chara is out against the Tavares line, I'd expect Nylander on Matthews line. 

I'm expecting Bergeron line to be matched against Tavares line, with Chara-McAvoy facing Matthews line.  But we will see as the series moves along if Cassidy sticks to that.


Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 09, 2019, 02:20:39 PM
When the Leafs win the Cup 2 months from now, who takes it from Gerry and who's the first guy he gives it too? Don't think they haven't thought about it in the wee hours of the morning ;)

Tavares(A)>>>Matthews(MVP)>>>Marleau(A/21-yr career w/o Cup)>>>Reilly(A)>>>Andersen>>>Marner
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 09, 2019, 03:48:06 PM
Marleau gets it first.  I don't care if he's healthy scratched at some point in the playoffs, he still gets it first.  No Captain and he's one of the assistants.  Rielly MIGHT get it first because he's the longest tenured Assistant Captain, but he'd hand it over the Marleau before raising it.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 09, 2019, 04:45:43 PM
Marleau gets it and he won't be a healthy scratch at any time. I expect him to pick it up starting Thursday.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 10, 2019, 09:44:10 AM
Marleau gets it and he won't be a healthy scratch at any time. I expect him to pick it up starting Thursday.
He did score 2 goals in game 7. I expect him to play well. He's been saving himself right?

That third line on paper looks like three guys all having terrible seasons. Let's hope the results start showing up for them. Nylander on the break-ins, Marleau to the net and Kadri in the high slot. I think they have the potential to do some damage.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 10, 2019, 09:52:00 AM
Marleau gets it and then "tweaks" his back carrying it around. Uh oh LTIR for him.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Dappleganger on April 10, 2019, 10:22:30 AM
If I were a Bruins fan, I would be getting a Gardiner jersey with a "-5" on the back of it.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Strangelove on April 10, 2019, 11:30:39 AM
If I were a Bruins fan, I would be getting a Gardiner jersey with a "-5" on the back of it.

It's interesting that Leaf fans are still interested bringing up a game in which everyone (particularly Andersen, with a 0.829 sv%) played terrible.

Until game 7 Gardiner was probably their best defencemen against Boston last year. I expect a similar story this year.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Dappleganger on April 10, 2019, 01:25:26 PM
If I were a Bruins fan, I would be getting a Gardiner jersey with a "-5" on the back of it.

It's interesting that Leaf fans are still interested bringing up a game in which everyone (particularly Andersen, with a 0.829 sv%) played terrible.

Until game 7 Gardiner was probably their best defencemen against Boston last year. I expect a similar story this year.

I mean, it's not like it hasn't been all over the sports channels the last couple days.  :-\
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 10, 2019, 01:36:01 PM
Marleau gets it and he won't be a healthy scratch at any time. I expect him to pick it up starting Thursday.
He did score 2 goals in game 7. I expect him to play well. He's been saving himself right?

That third line on paper looks like three guys all having terrible seasons. Let's hope the results start showing up for them. Nylander on the break-ins, Marleau to the net and Kadri in the high slot. I think they have the potential to do some damage.

He also scored 27 goals that year.  He was down to 16 this year and his skating is nowhere near where it was last year.  It would be a great plus if he is able to step up his game but he certainly isn't someone I'm going to expect anything out of.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: 93forever on April 10, 2019, 02:05:12 PM
As much as a Leaf fan as I am, and having been one since 1974, there is no way I see the Leafs taking out the Bruins, and I am devastated and saddened by saying that.  If the Leafs can somehow upset the Bruins, I would be jumping for joy, but the reality is, every team out there knows how to beat the Leafs - clog up the passing lanes and put pressure on the D.  The Leafs never had an answer for that the entire season and every loss I saw this season was a result of teams doing those two things, so I would expect the Bruins to do those same things.  For an offensive team, there were too many one goal games - that is the Leafs only scored one goal, and there were a lot of games which the Leafs could not generate a lot of scoring chances so I'm expecting the Bruins to take this in 5.

However, the two wild cards are Kadri and Gardiner.  If Kadri can be a pest and create some offense and if Gardiner can stop passing the puck to Bruin players, and actually play defense responsibly, the Leafs will take out the Bruins in 7.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 10, 2019, 02:11:02 PM

So every team in the league knew how to beat the Leafs and they just decided not to 46 times?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 10, 2019, 02:17:38 PM

So every team in the league knew how to beat the Leafs and they just decided not to 46 times?
Felt sorry for them? Leafs got lucky 46 times? Sounds reasonable to me.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: 93forever on April 10, 2019, 02:27:50 PM

So every team in the league knew how to beat the Leafs and they just decided not to 46 times?

It depends on the style of the other coach, and if the players on the other team can play that style against the Leafs.  Take a look at the Leaf losses this past season, and in most of those games, the other team was clogging up the passing lanes and the Leafs never had an answer for that, and never adjusted their play to counter that.  Just saying....
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: LuncheonMeat on April 10, 2019, 02:28:09 PM

So every team in the league knew how to beat the Leafs and they just decided not to 46 times?

The Leafs just wanted those ones more than the other team.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 10, 2019, 03:21:58 PM
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 10, 2019, 03:23:45 PM

However, the two wild cards are Kadri and Gardiner.  If Kadri can be a pest and create some offense and if Gardiner can stop passing the puck to Bruin players, and actually play defense responsibly, the Leafs will take out the Bruins in 7.

Really? That's the difference between a loss in 5 and a win in 7?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 10, 2019, 03:29:42 PM

So every team in the league knew how to beat the Leafs and they just decided not to 46 times?

It depends on the style of the other coach, and if the players on the other team can play that style against the Leafs.  Take a look at the Leaf losses this past season, and in most of those games, the other team was clogging up the passing lanes and the Leafs never had an answer for that, and never adjusted their play to counter that.  Just saying....

So then why did the Leafs have a split record against most teams? If it was all about style/ability to clog lanes then how come teams did it some nights and not others?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 10, 2019, 03:39:48 PM
Literally every teams game plan against every other team is to clog up the passing lanes.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: bustaheims on April 10, 2019, 04:01:05 PM
Literally every teams game plan against every other team is to clog up the passing lanes.

Yeah. It’s like when people say the book on X butterfly style goalie is go high glove side.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 10, 2019, 04:21:08 PM
I don't usually post about what player I'd liked to see used where, as I usually defer to the wisdom of the people in the know, but I'd love to see Matthews, Tavares and Kadri just continually rolled out there and barely using Gauthier. Get Auston and JT up to 20 minutes a night by giving them a couple of shifts with the Brown and Moore. There's just such a drop-off from the top centers to the 4C. I think they'd relish the extra minutes. Just ride those ponies all night long.

               Hyman-Tavares-Marner
          Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
               Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
        Moore-Tavares/Matthews-Brown
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 10, 2019, 04:41:16 PM
I don't usually post about what player I'd liked to see used where, as I usually defer to the wisdom of the people in the know, but I'd love to see Matthews, Tavares and Kadri just continually rolled out there and barely using Gauthier. Get Auston and JT up to 20 minutes a night by giving them a couple of shifts with the Brown and Moore. There's just such a drop-off from the top centers to the 4C. I think they'd relish the extra minutes. Just ride those ponies all night long.

               Hyman-Tavares-Marner
          Johnsson-Matthews-Kapanen
               Marleau-Kadri-Nylander
        Moore-Tavares/Matthews-Brown
I would agree. If Goat plays close to 10 mins, we're in big trouble. Babs needs to dbl shift the boys in the middle, namely Matthews and JT.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 10, 2019, 04:56:20 PM
I would agree. If Goat plays close to 10 mins, we're in big trouble. Babs needs to dbl shift the boys in the middle, namely Matthews and JT.

Gauthier's been over 10 minutes a night just 14 times in his 70 games this season. Among forwards with over 50 games played this season, he sits dead last in average ice time at just 8:22 a night. So I don't really see that changing in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: pmrules on April 11, 2019, 10:18:02 AM
If we split games 1 and 2, i'm saying Leafs in 6 or 7.  I think games 1 and 2 are so important.




Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 11, 2019, 10:41:59 AM
I would agree. If Goat plays close to 10 mins, we're in big trouble. Babs needs to dbl shift the boys in the middle, namely Matthews and JT.

Gauthier's been over 10 minutes a night just 14 times in his 70 games this season. Among forwards with over 50 games played this season, he sits dead last in average ice time at just 8:22 a night. So I don't really see that changing in the playoffs.

And I bet most of those games where he was +10 mins were blowouts or 2nd night of back to back.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: AlmosGirl on April 11, 2019, 01:03:36 PM
My heart says Leafs in 6 but.....

my head says Boston in 5. :'(
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 11, 2019, 01:34:40 PM
I would agree. If Goat plays close to 10 mins, we're in big trouble. Babs needs to dbl shift the boys in the middle, namely Matthews and JT.

Gauthier's been over 10 minutes a night just 14 times in his 70 games this season. Among forwards with over 50 games played this season, he sits dead last in average ice time at just 8:22 a night. So I don't really see that changing in the playoffs.

And I bet most of those games where he was +10 mins were blowouts or 2nd night of back to back.

Yep. https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/g/gauthfr01/gamelog/2019
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 11, 2019, 05:45:23 PM
A nice nod from Apple’s CEO:


Matthews has signed a major deal with Apple.  With some help from Marner, of course.  The two wouldn’t be complete without each other.  Expect billboard ads, tv commercials, etc.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 11, 2019, 05:58:04 PM
Yes, Boston is “beatable”.  (We already know so are the Leafs).

But, the Bruins are not as consistent (or persistent) when certain flaws or gaps are exposed by the opposition, provided the opposing team reads the plays well and anticipates properly.

In a nutshell:
Quote
...the Bruins are going to win the series if they can dominate the boards, keep extended cycles alive, and stay in motion to take advantage of static Leafs defensive zone coverage.

And the Leafs will win the series if they can use their speed to pressure the Bruins’ defence, anticipate the board play, push in transition, and keep their feet moving defensively.

Excellent article complete with video explanations in detail:  (for those who subscribe)

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Dappleganger on April 11, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
When is puck drop? 7:07pm, 7:11pm?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 11, 2019, 06:15:44 PM
CBC Hi-Res stream. I'm assuming 7:08pm.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 08:44:20 AM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 12, 2019, 09:24:55 AM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.

Come on, the Blue Jackets are doomed! Oh wait...
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 12, 2019, 10:01:51 AM
This is not the same team as last year. Man they absolutely had to be at their best every second of every minute to beat this incredibly dangerous Boston team and they went in there and they did it. Boston had full push back but they just kept disciplined and defending and executing. Bloody well done lads. They've got the horses now... and they're hungry. You can really see that. They want to win this sucker real bad.

And well said Nik.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 12, 2019, 10:09:23 AM

I know it won't but I hope last night,

It's good to have hope.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 12, 2019, 10:49:48 AM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.

Thank you, Peter Parity.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 12, 2019, 12:07:02 PM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.


As soon as Boston scores a goal you'll hear how garbage the Leafs are and have no hope of competing in the series courtesy of lc9. If Leafs win he'll barely post in the thread.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: leafsjunkie on April 12, 2019, 12:28:04 PM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.


As soon as Boston scores a goal you'll hear how garbage the Leafs are and have no hope of competing in the series courtesy of lc9. If Leafs win he'll barely post in the thread.

But, but... he's a Leafs 'fan'....
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Highlander on April 12, 2019, 01:49:22 PM
He is the only poster I have ever banished, life is nicer here without him.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Highlander on April 12, 2019, 01:50:54 PM
Why isn't always playoff hockey????
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 12, 2019, 01:52:05 PM
He is the only poster I have ever banished, life is nicer here without him.
Same here. I don't mind people complaining because I mostly feel the same at times. He's beyond negative. GDT are soooo much nicer. I just wished people would stopped quoting him, then I wouldn't have to see anything he says!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 12, 2019, 01:52:39 PM
Why isn't always playoff hockey????
What?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 12, 2019, 02:19:35 PM
He is the only poster I have ever banished, life is nicer here without him.
Same here. I don't mind people complaining because I mostly feel the same at times. He's beyond negative. GDT are soooo much nicer. I just wished people would stopped quoting him, then I wouldn't have to see anything he says!

I have but I have Tapatalk so he is unblockable for me. I'm not sure why he isn't reprimanded for violating the code of conduct. There is nothing conducive to a good forum environment when the only focus is how bad a 100pt team is (that you're supposed to root for!) and almost none given to positives, regardless of play or outcome.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 12, 2019, 02:28:17 PM

I know it won't but I hope last night, and the playoffs to date, put the final nail in the coffin of the idiotic nonsense we've had to deal with for months in the GDT's about the Leafs being doomed and fundamentally unable to even make it a close series. That's just not how the modern NHL works. That's not true of any team vs. any team in a series. Some goaltending and some breaks and Ottawa could beat Tampa two or three times out of seven.

The Leafs could lose the next four straight or win the next three or any variation therein. That is true of every series in the playoffs and every series that will ever happen so long as the NHL maintains its current set-up.


As soon as Boston scores a goal you'll hear how garbage the Leafs are and have no hope of competing in the series courtesy of lc9. If Leafs win he'll barely post in the thread.

If they win: "WELL THEY WON'T BEAT TAMPA! TEAM IS SO SOFT."

I remember when we had things to complain about and the Leafs were trash year after year there was one beacon of optimism that we could really use again. Nutman!!  ;D
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 02:36:23 PM
I wasn't really intending my post to be about one poster in particular as we've heard stuff like that from multiple parties(although clearly I've touched a nerve).

Really though, I think my point can be sort of broadened towards the larger question of how we look at numbers and probabilities within the game. We all know that hockey games rely on all manner of bounces and luck. A shot from the point hits a stick going towards the net and sometimes it banks in and sometimes drops right to a defender for an easy clear or counter attack and just about any game can swing on that sort of thing, that happens dozens of times a night, going one team or the other's way maybe two or three times.

What a lot of the "Leafs have no hope" crowd did was just talk out of their butt. Trying to reduce all of those bounces and all of the thousands of variables that go into a game besides and think that they were somehow smart enough to reduce it to simple percentages. Team X has only a 10% chance against Team Y but a 40% chance against Team Z. Trying to attach their yammering nonsense to numbers like that in the hopes that it would lend weight to their opinions.

Meanwhile what the people actually interested in breaking down the numbers(who, because it didn't fit their preconceived conclusions, a lot of the same people dismissed) were saying was really just in the realm of "Doing certain things, having certain kinds of players, are how teams put their thumb on the scale". Getting shots from higher percentage locations, having players who lead to more shots generated...it doesn't negate all of the variables, it just puts you in the best situation for them. If things can break 55-45, you want the 55.

People struggle with the concept of probability. After the last Presidential election people said that the outcome disproved the models that had the result as being only 25% possible or whatever. But that's not how things work. All you can do is put together a group to be in the best possible position, you can't control for everything.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 02:39:11 PM
I remember when we had things to complain about and the Leafs were trash year after year there was one beacon of optimism that we could really use again. Nutman!!  ;D

No, that's very much missing the point. The issue isn't one of optimism/pessimism, it's about realistically measuring the information we have. People saying that the team with Toskala in net were definitely playoff bound weren't any less annoying and were actively arguing against the sort of team-building strategy that led the Leafs to build the current roster.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 12, 2019, 02:51:03 PM
Team X has only a 10% chance against Team Y but a 40% chance against Team Z.

That's me.  Team Z.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 02:57:24 PM
Thank you, Peter Parity.

And that's always been my beef with the quest for parity. The more parity you have, the more likelihood you have that it's those random chance things that determine a series.

Which doesn't even mean the way the puck might bounce. I think the playoffs these days are as much about players getting hot at the right moments as anything but what makes players have hot streaks is essentially a mystery. We like ascribing certain narratives to players who get hot in the playoffs vs. players who get cold in the playoffs(or the beginning of the year vs. end of the year) but that's a by-product of how we've all been raised by dopes trying to fill column inches.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 12, 2019, 03:02:34 PM
Really though, I think my point can be sort of broadened towards the larger question of how we look at numbers and probabilities within the game. We all know that hockey games rely on all manner of bounces and luck. A shot from the point hits a stick going towards the net and sometimes it banks in and sometimes drops right to a defender for an easy clear or counter attack and just about any game can swing on that sort of thing, that happens dozens of times a night, going one team or the other's way maybe two or three times.

What a lot of the "Leafs have no hope" crowd did was just talk out of their butt. Trying to reduce all of those bounces and all of the thousands of variables that go into a game besides and think that they were somehow smart enough to reduce it to simple percentages. Team X has only a 10% chance against Team Y but a 40% chance against Team Z. Trying to attach their yammering nonsense to numbers like that in the hopes that it would lend weight to their opinions.

Meanwhile what the people actually interested in breaking down the numbers(who, because it didn't fit their preconceived conclusions, a lot of the same people dismissed) were saying was really just in the realm of "Doing certain things, having certain kinds of players, are how teams put their thumb on the scale". Getting shots from higher percentage locations, having players who lead to more shots generated...it doesn't negate all of the variables, it just puts you in the best situation for them. If things can break 55-45, you want the 55.

People struggle with the concept of probability. After the last Presidential election people said that the outcome disproved the models that had the result as being only 25% possible or whatever. But that's not how things work. All you can do is put together a group to be in the best possible position, you can't control for everything.

(https://fc09.deviantart.net/fs18/f/2007/172/2/7/My_god__It__s_full_of_stars__by_ZootCadillac.jpg)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 12, 2019, 03:03:26 PM
I remember when we had things to complain about and the Leafs were trash year after year there was one beacon of optimism that we could really use again. Nutman!!  ;D

No, that's very much missing the point. The issue isn't one of optimism/pessimism, it's about realistically measuring the information we have. People saying that the team with Toskala in net were definitely playoff bound weren't any less annoying and were actively arguing against the sort of team-building strategy that led the Leafs to build the current roster.

Maybe true to a degree, but I don't see anything in the code of conduct against being a Leafs homer when the team isn't good. Besides, his optimism isn't completely unfounded now. "Endlessly bashing" on the other hand...
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 12, 2019, 03:07:50 PM
Thank you, Peter Parity.

And that's always been my beef with the quest for parity. The more parity you have, the more likelihood you have that it's those random chance things that determine a series.

Which doesn't even mean the way the puck might bounce. I think the playoffs these days are as much about players getting hot at the right moments as anything but what makes players have hot streaks is essentially a mystery. We like ascribing certain narratives to players who get hot in the playoffs vs. players who get cold in the playoffs(or the beginning of the year vs. end of the year) but that's a by-product of how we've all been raised by dopes trying to fill column inches.

One thing I heard on the broadcast yesterday was that Mitch hadn't scored in a while and they though "Has he lost his confidence?"

Imo that sounds like such a ridiculous narrative to weave together. I think the guy with 94pts to lead the team doesn't have confidence issues, or at least it's ridiculous to chalk that up to why he hadn't scored for a while.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 12, 2019, 03:09:13 PM
Team X has only a 10% chance against Team Y but a 40% chance against Team Z.

That's me.  Team Z.
Only in the US..Up here you're Team ZED!!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 03:11:34 PM
Maybe true to a degree, but I don't see anything in the code of conduct against being a Leafs homer when the team isn't good. Besides, his optimism isn't completely unfounded now. "Endlessly bashing" on the other hand...

I'm not a mod/admin so I have no real opinion on whether any rules were actually broken. I'm just saying that from my perspective I genuinely don't mind any opinion/outlook so long as it's reasonable and well argued and isn't just repeated over and over again.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 12, 2019, 03:14:24 PM
Maybe true to a degree, but I don't see anything in the code of conduct against being a Leafs homer when the team isn't good. Besides, his optimism isn't completely unfounded now. "Endlessly bashing" on the other hand...

I don't see where "endlessly bashing" is forbidden in the rules either.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 12, 2019, 03:17:48 PM
I'll also say, since it's painfully obvious who we're talking about, all of lc9's posts in last nights GDT were pretty reasonable. Some people handle losing differently and I understand why he gets on most people's (including mine) nerves but I don't agree with suggestions that he's simply a troll and doesn't deserve to take part in a Leafs message forum.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 12, 2019, 03:28:51 PM
I wasn't really intending my post to be about one poster in particular as we've heard stuff like that from multiple parties(although clearly I've touched a nerve).

Really though, I think my point can be sort of broadened towards the larger question of how we look at numbers and probabilities within the game. We all know that hockey games rely on all manner of bounces and luck. A shot from the point hits a stick going towards the net and sometimes it banks in and sometimes drops right to a defender for an easy clear or counter attack and just about any game can swing on that sort of thing, that happens dozens of times a night, going one team or the other's way maybe two or three times.

What a lot of the "Leafs have no hope" crowd did was just talk out of their butt. Trying to reduce all of those bounces and all of the thousands of variables that go into a game besides and think that they were somehow smart enough to reduce it to simple percentages. Team X has only a 10% chance against Team Y but a 40% chance against Team Z. Trying to attach their yammering nonsense to numbers like that in the hopes that it would lend weight to their opinions.

Meanwhile what the people actually interested in breaking down the numbers(who, because it didn't fit their preconceived conclusions, a lot of the same people dismissed) were saying was really just in the realm of "Doing certain things, having certain kinds of players, are how teams put their thumb on the scale". Getting shots from higher percentage locations, having players who lead to more shots generated...it doesn't negate all of the variables, it just puts you in the best situation for them. If things can break 55-45, you want the 55.

People struggle with the concept of probability. After the last Presidential election people said that the outcome disproved the models that had the result as being only 25% possible or whatever. But that's not how things work. All you can do is put together a group to be in the best possible position, you can't control for everything.

What's interesting is I don't think a lot of the Leafs' underlying numbers have been good in the last month. I haven't looked at myself but so I've heard.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 12, 2019, 03:33:04 PM
What's interesting is I don't think a lot of the Leafs' underlying numbers have been good in the last month. I haven't looked at myself but so I've heard.

Without Gardiner and Dermott I wouldn't be surprised if that were true. Gardiner is, and has been for a while, the ultimate example of the guy with the good underlying numbers who nevertheless was written off as absolute garbage by the "Watch the game!" brigade.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 12, 2019, 03:35:02 PM
What's interesting is I don't think a lot of the Leafs' underlying numbers have been good in the last month. I haven't looked at myself but so I've heard.

Since March 1st their CF was 53.7%, good for 6th in the league in that span.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 12, 2019, 03:45:55 PM
This is somewhat a repost of mine, but the Leafs were surging in March and were just sunk by crappy goaltending (chart from @ChartingHockey):

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D2_be_cWkAA_QP7.png)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 12, 2019, 03:58:17 PM
What's interesting is I don't think a lot of the Leafs' underlying numbers have been good in the last month. I haven't looked at myself but so I've heard.

For the first chunk of the month, it was already the worst. Goalie hell week especially, when some quick high deflections found their way in and the team couldn't be bothered to put themselves on the line to get more points given all the injuries and illnesses happening at that time already.


The end of March, even without seeing the results on the scoreboard, saw the Leafs rounding into form. We're not even at full strength right now due to Gardiner and Dermott's injury recoveries (neither are the Bruins, but their listed injuries are to no one important in my mind).

EDIT: Ah, Carlton beat me to it.

Here is the same chart/data with Boston included:
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 12, 2019, 04:02:48 PM
...
People struggle with the concept of probability. After the last Presidential election people said that the outcome disproved the models that had the result as being only 25% possible or whatever. But that's not how things work. All you can do is put together a group to be in the best possible position, you can't control for everything.

"The more I practice, the luckier I get." ~ Efron Reyes

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: 93forever on April 14, 2019, 05:08:10 PM

However, the two wild cards are Kadri and Gardiner.  If Kadri can be a pest and create some offense and if Gardiner can stop passing the puck to Bruin players, and actually play defense responsibly, the Leafs will take out the Bruins in 7.

Really? That's the difference between a loss in 5 and a win in 7?

Like I said, Kadri and Gardiner will be keys to the series.  Who knows what would have happened if Kadri wasn't a bonehead in game 2.  Maybe the Leafs get a second goal.  They need Gardiner to play solid defensively which is what he is doing, but the Kadri thing may cost the Leafs the series.  If I am wrong and the Leafs take the series, I will be the first to say that you were right and I was wrong, I do hope I am wrong, I really do.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: sickbeast on April 14, 2019, 09:04:16 PM

However, the two wild cards are Kadri and Gardiner.  If Kadri can be a pest and create some offense and if Gardiner can stop passing the puck to Bruin players, and actually play defense responsibly, the Leafs will take out the Bruins in 7.

Really? That's the difference between a loss in 5 and a win in 7?

Like I said, Kadri and Gardiner will be keys to the series.  Who knows what would have happened if Kadri wasn't a bonehead in game 2.  Maybe the Leafs get a second goal.  They need Gardiner to play solid defensively which is what he is doing, but the Kadri thing may cost the Leafs the series.  If I am wrong and the Leafs take the series, I will be the first to say that you were right and I was wrong, I do hope I am wrong, I really do.
Yesterday the Bruins were the team I feared.  Big, physical, fast, and mean.  Losing Kadri will be brutal.  I am hopeful that the Leafs can pull it off but I definitely think Boston is in the driver's seat now, particularly if they can win game 3 and win back home ice advantage.  Who comes off the bench to fill in while Kadri is out?

Hopefully Babcock can pull off some coaching wizardry.  We'll see tomorrow.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 14, 2019, 09:20:14 PM
Leafs need to play their game,  not easy to do but that simple. Whoever gets the easier matchup, not against Bergeroncan hopefully produce. Our 3rd and 4th lines need to outplay theirs too. Our goalie is better!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 15, 2019, 01:48:34 PM
- Kadri will (hopefully) ride the physical line without a suspension.
This... has not aged well. Let's just pretend he tore his ACL on that DeBrusk knee :-\

Let's have a look at the Eastern Conference Round One:
CBJ leads TB 3-0.
NYI leads PGH 3-0.
WASH leads CAR 2-0.

The road is open. Get in there and take it Buds! Slay that dirty dragon.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: 93forever on April 16, 2019, 08:08:10 AM

However, the two wild cards are Kadri and Gardiner.  If Kadri can be a pest and create some offense and if Gardiner can stop passing the puck to Bruin players, and actually play defense responsibly, the Leafs will take out the Bruins in 7.

Really? That's the difference between a loss in 5 and a win in 7?

Like I said, Kadri and Gardiner will be keys to the series.  Who knows what would have happened if Kadri wasn't a bonehead in game 2.  Maybe the Leafs get a second goal.  They need Gardiner to play solid defensively which is what he is doing, but the Kadri thing may cost the Leafs the series.  If I am wrong and the Leafs take the series, I will be the first to say that you were right and I was wrong, I do hope I am wrong, I really do.
Yesterday the Bruins were the team I feared.  Big, physical, fast, and mean.  Losing Kadri will be brutal.  I am hopeful that the Leafs can pull it off but I definitely think Boston is in the driver's seat now, particularly if they can win game 3 and win back home ice advantage.  Who comes off the bench to fill in while Kadri is out?

Hopefully Babcock can pull off some coaching wizardry.  We'll see tomorrow.

I am glad I was wrong.  The way the Leafs played last night, it shows they can actually play playoff hockey and win.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2019, 09:55:30 AM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 16, 2019, 10:19:49 AM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.
Babcock has been solid. The ice time distribution has been great.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 16, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.

I don't buy that. I actually find Marleau to be contributing quite well. Can we swap Moore in the odd time? Sure. But I don't think a full swap will help the team. Just my opinion though.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2019, 10:51:53 AM
I'm OK with Marleau's usage right now. Only 11 minutes last night, that's about right. As long as he never appears on LW
with Matthews I'm happy.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2019, 11:31:56 AM

Props to Muzzin-Zaitsev for doing the actual work here but credit needs to go to Babs too. We've all criticized his line-up/deployment at some point or another but switching from Rielly-Hainsey to that pairing for the Bergeron assignment is one of the biggest reasons we're up 2-1 right now.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 16, 2019, 12:01:46 PM

Is there really anything to complain about right now?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 16, 2019, 12:04:24 PM

Is there really anything to complain about right now?

Yes.  Marleau should have a bigger number after that minus.  Not surprising to me that the Nylander line was the worst one possession wise last night.  And I thought Willy played a really good game!  Would really like to see:

Moore-Nylander-Brown
Marleau-Goat-Ennis

(I don't think Marleau-Brown works well at all, and I think it would make the 4th line too weak so I prefer to split them up)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2019, 12:07:28 PM
Yes.  Marleau should have a bigger number after that minus.  Not surprising to me that the Nylander line was the worst one possession wise last night.  And I thought Willy played a really good game!  Would really like to see:

Moore-Nylander-Brown
Marleau-Goat-Ennis

(I don't think Marleau-Brown works well at all, and I think it would make the 4th line too weak so I prefer to split them up)

I don't really expect any changes to the line-up right now but if I was in charge I'd go:

Johnsson-Matthews-Brown
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen

With the 1st and 4th lines staying the way they are. Brown's really stepped up in the playoffs and would add a Hyman-like presence to the Matthews line. Marleau and Kappy, IIRC, have had some success together with Kadri and obviously Nylander and Kapanen know each other well.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 16, 2019, 12:18:12 PM
Yes.  Marleau should have a bigger number after that minus.  Not surprising to me that the Nylander line was the worst one possession wise last night.  And I thought Willy played a really good game!  Would really like to see:

Moore-Nylander-Brown
Marleau-Goat-Ennis

(I don't think Marleau-Brown works well at all, and I think it would make the 4th line too weak so I prefer to split them up)

I don't really expect any changes to the line-up right now but if I was in charge I'd go:

Johnsson-Matthews-Brown
Marleau-Nylander-Kapanen

With the 1st and 4th lines staying the way they are. Brown's really stepped up in the playoffs and would add a Hyman-like presence to the Matthews line. Marleau and Kappy, IIRC, have had some success together with Kadri and obviously Nylander and Kapanen know each other well.

I thought of your option as well.  I think on the road, where you won't control the matchups, his defense is stronger and that would really help the Matthews line if they have to face the Bergeron unit. 

Also, Brown is much smarter out there.  Kapanen is all speed but makes poor decisions.  Brown typically makes good ones, but lacks the physical gifts to be more than a 3rd liner.  I wonder if Matthews doesn't really need the speed of Kapanen, but someone smarter on that wing. 
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2019, 12:22:41 PM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.

I don't buy that. I actually find Marleau to be contributing quite well. Can we swap Moore in the odd time? Sure. But I don't think a full swap will help the team. Just my opinion though.


Contributing in what way? I don't see him doing much of anything out there.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 02:07:24 PM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.
Babcock has been solid. The ice time distribution has been great.
Now hold one here just a minute. Here's a little stat for you that might alter your opinion slightly.
Johnsson and Kappy are considered 1st line players yes? Yes.
Game 1, Leaf win
TOI...Mango 17:52, 16:52(EV), Kappy 18:28, 17:10(EV)
Game 2, Leaf Loss
TOI...Mango 10:40, 9:52(EV), Kappy 15:52, 10:54(EV)
Game 3, Leaf Win
TOI...Mango 18:40, 16:16(EV), Kappy 17:46, 15:22(EV)
How does Johnsson and Kappy to an extent play so little in game 2? Johnsson was the 4th lowest TOI in game 2, 3 minutes less then Marleau who was 5th. 3 MINUTES people.
So Babs has done a great job with ice in game 1 and 3 but not so much in game 2.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2019, 02:46:42 PM
Johnsson and Kappy are considered 1st line players yes?

No. I mean even if you're just saying anyone playing on the 1st line is a 1st line player it's still incorrect since the Tavares line is pretty much without question the 1st line right now.

How does Johnsson and Kappy to an extent play so little in game 2? Johnsson was the 4th lowest TOI in game 2, 3 minutes less then Marleau who was 5th. 3 MINUTES people.

So Babs has done a great job with ice in game 1 and 3 but not so much in game 2.

If you check the shift chart (http://naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20182019&game=30122#lbshiftchart) from game 2 you'll see that Johnsson pretty much got shafted because of all the penalties that were called in the 2nd half of the game. He was playing a consistent shift in the 1st half and then the Leafs spent 8:20 of the 2nd half on the PK and over 4 minutes on the PP. He of course doesn't play PK and the big guns ate up most of those PP minutes. In between all those penalties Babs shook up the lines a little bit and had Matthews going out with different players and yeah Johnsson got lost in the shuffle a little bit. Yeah, Marleau got a little more ice-time in that portion of the game and maybe he shouldn't have but we're talking about the difference of 2 or 3 shifts. Johnsson also had a 33% CF on the night so maybe Babs just didn't think he was bringing in that night.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 02:52:59 PM
I won't quote you as there's too much to read! Thanks for finding all the info. I was just looking at the TOI/EV icetime and not all the other stuff. Makes sense now. Having said that tho he still shouldn't have 3 minutes less then Marleau and Nylander in that game lol. So we can safely say if Johnsson plays over 16 mins, the Leafs win? Kidding. Thx CTB.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2019, 02:58:33 PM
So we can safely say if Johnsson plays over 16 mins, the Leafs win?

I think it's pretty safe to say that Babcock was either resting Johnsson for game 3 or motivating him to play better in game 3 by cutting his ice-time and therefore if he did play 16 minutes maybe we win game 2 but we definitely lose game 3 therefore Babcock should be awarded the Jack Adams immediately.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 03:13:36 PM
So we can safely say if Johnsson plays over 16 mins, the Leafs win?

I think it's pretty safe to say that Babcock was either resting Johnsson for game 3 or motivating him to play better in game 3 by cutting his ice-time and therefore if he did play 16 minutes maybe we win game 2 but we definitely lose game 3 therefore Babcock should be awarded the Jack Adams immediately.
Haha, good one!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 16, 2019, 03:26:11 PM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.

I don't buy that. I actually find Marleau to be contributing quite well. Can we swap Moore in the odd time? Sure. But I don't think a full swap will help the team. Just my opinion though.


Contributing in what way? I don't see him doing much of anything out there.

Banging Bodies, driving the play deep, forcing the defense to move the puck quickly. It's nothing to jump up and down about, but it's things that a line with Nylander needs as he doesn't drive the play or bang bodies. He's a perimeter player and there's nothing wrong with that.. Brown and Marleau may not be ideal. But Marleau belongs on the 3rd line IMO.

What are you looking for out of him?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 03:47:03 PM
Babcock has to identify that Marleau isn't doing anything out there and needs his ice time cut.  Moore and Ennis did more with 6 minutes of ice than Marleau did in almost double that time.

I don't buy that. I actually find Marleau to be contributing quite well. Can we swap Moore in the odd time? Sure. But I don't think a full swap will help the team. Just my opinion though.


Contributing in what way? I don't see him doing much of anything out there.

Banging Bodies, driving the play deep, forcing the defense to move the puck quickly. It's nothing to jump up and down about, but it's things that a line with Nylander needs as he doesn't drive the play or bang bodies. He's a perimeter player and there's nothing wrong with that.. Brown and Marleau may not be ideal. But Marleau belongs on the 3rd line IMO.

What are you looking for out of him?
I think we should expect him to be more then a 4th line player which is essentially what he is. I think he played well in game 1 though and was a big factor in the Nylander goal. We also need Nylander to be more then a 4th line player to, which is what he's become. He may have been better yesterday but being better then that tire fire on Saturday isn't hard to do. Fact is late in the game Babs put Goat out there with the 3rd line and sat him. Nylander's compete level needs to be a lot better.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2019, 03:49:47 PM
Fact is late in the game Babs put Goat out there with the 3rd line and sat him. Nylander's compete level needs to be a lot better.

This was one shift and the Bruins almost immediately scored despite starting in their defensive end. If I was looking for something to fault Babcock for that'd be it. Gauthier shouldn't be considered an upgrade over Nylander in any facet of the game.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 16, 2019, 03:56:58 PM
For 6 million a year, Marleau should be a key contributor.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 04:42:59 PM
Fact is late in the game Babs put Goat out there with the 3rd line and sat him. Nylander's compete level needs to be a lot better.

This was one shift and the Bruins almost immediately scored despite starting in their defensive end. If I was looking for something to fault Babcock for that'd be it. Gauthier shouldn't be considered an upgrade over Nylander in any facet of the game.
I agree but it's clear Babs has zero confidence in Willy. He needs to compete harder. I thought he was better but he still needs to amp it up some more.
Anyway, if you look at the replay on that play, Rielly was waaay out of position and the only reason Krejci was open. Horrible coverage by him. It worked out luckily.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 16, 2019, 05:05:52 PM
I'm honestly looking for opinions here: what is it about Nylander's play that makes someone think he needs to be more competitive?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 16, 2019, 05:16:40 PM
For 6 million a year, Marleau should be a key contributor.

So now you want him to return to his form from 5 or 6 years ago?

Also, because he's not a key contributor(on the score board), he's suddenly a 4th liner. I don't buy it.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 16, 2019, 05:17:44 PM
I'm honestly looking for opinions here: what is it about Nylander's play that makes someone think he needs to be more competitive?

I think people are looking for him to go head first into corners. I don't think you'll see that from him. That's not him as a player. Like I said, he's a perimeter player.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 16, 2019, 05:23:53 PM

I once had a warehouse job where there wasn't much to do during the day. Despite that, the boss did not like it to look like we weren't busy. So, for most of the summer, we had a stack of boxes in one corner of the warehouse and, whenever we didn't have someone who needed help finding a part, we'd move the boxes from that one corner to a different corner. Then, when we'd moved them all, we'd start moving them back to where they'd originally been.

Some people just want you to look like you're working hard, regardless of whether or not you're accomplishing anything.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2019, 05:47:32 PM
I'm honestly looking for opinions here: what is it about Nylander's play that makes someone think he needs to be more competitive?
There's times you see him totaly engaged, full balls to the wall, mucking it up and then you'll see him totally avoid any contact. I don't expect him to be Clark or Hyman. I want more of that guy who engages and less of the I want the avoid contact at all costs Nylander. Not expecting anything he hasn't done. I do like him better at centre tho and  thought he was better last night.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 16, 2019, 07:41:10 PM
I'm honestly looking for opinions here: what is it about Nylander's play that makes someone think he needs to be more competitive?

Confirmation bias.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2019, 11:38:16 AM
Anyway, if you look at the replay on that play, Rielly was waaay out of position and the only reason Krejci was open. Horrible coverage by him. It worked out luckily.


To me Rielly was following/anticipating the play going along the board, which is what happened and he was cutting DeBrusk off from the net. Goat was the one who left Krejci to begin with to get closer to the puck but wasn't actually covering anyone. And then of course at the end of the clip he falls for no reason and blocks Rielly's path to the play.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 17, 2019, 11:49:20 AM

This is actually what Dubas said from the beginning of the season.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Nik on April 17, 2019, 11:59:19 AM

Hold the phone. Gauthier was on a Team Canada at the WJC and that team won? That changes everything!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2019, 12:04:29 PM

Hold the phone. Gauthier was on a Team Canada at the WJC and that team won? That changes everything!

I'm sure that was all Gauthier playing a 4th line role and not *checks notes* Connor McDavid.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 17, 2019, 12:22:44 PM

Hold the phone. Gauthier was on a Team Canada at the WJC and that team won? That changes everything!

I'm sure that was all Gauthier playing a 4th line role and not *checks notes* Connor McDavid.

Fat lot of good that has done for Edmonton :)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 17, 2019, 12:45:15 PM

Hold the phone. Gauthier was on a Team Canada at the WJC and that team won? That changes everything!

Hey, are you saying that his two-year total of 0 goals, two assists and -3 rating in 14 WJC games DIDN'T help them win??
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: LuncheonMeat on April 17, 2019, 02:39:34 PM
Anyway, if you look at the replay on that play, Rielly was waaay out of position and the only reason Krejci was open. Horrible coverage by him. It worked out luckily.


To me Rielly was following/anticipating the play going along the board, which is what happened and he was cutting DeBrusk off from the net. Goat was the one who left Krejci to begin with to get closer to the puck but wasn't actually covering anyone. And then of course at the end of the clip he falls for no reason and blocks Rielly's path to the play.

Coming into the D zone, the Goat never so much as looks over his shoulder to see where his man is.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 17, 2019, 02:43:57 PM
(https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_fill,g_auto,h_1248,w_2220/f_auto,w_1100/v1554932989/shape/mentalfloss/istock-482891144-goat-eyes.jpg)

Goats have panoramic vision so they don't have to turn their heads as much to see peripherally.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2019, 02:54:54 PM
Anyway, if you look at the replay on that play, Rielly was waaay out of position and the only reason Krejci was open. Horrible coverage by him. It worked out luckily.


To me Rielly was following/anticipating the play going along the board, which is what happened and he was cutting DeBrusk off from the net. Goat was the one who left Krejci to begin with to get closer to the puck but wasn't actually covering anyone. And then of course at the end of the clip he falls for no reason and blocks Rielly's path to the play.
Maybe it's the style they play now but I always tell my D to get to the house but I get why Rielly went where he was. I'd still prefer the D man to go in front and have the centre pick up DeSuck.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 17, 2019, 04:27:52 PM

Hold the phone. Gauthier was on a Team Canada at the WJC and that team won? That changes everything!

I'm sure that was all Gauthier playing a 4th line role and not *checks notes* Connor McDavid.

Gauthier 2 points in 17 GP - 1 gold medal

Nylander 11 points in 8 GP - 0 gold medals

More proof that I don't want William on my team.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: RedLeaf on April 18, 2019, 08:54:07 AM
Here are my hot takes after last nights game, because gender bender loves these so much :)

I definitely think the odds-on favorite is still Boston here. The pendulum might have swung more in the Leafs favour after game 3, but its clearly back on Bostons side now.

That being said, the Leafs are in a better position, and I believe they have better odds of beating the Bruins this year than they did last year.

The Leafs seem to reach into their reserve tank when they play as underdogs, and when they absolutely need to win.

It was reported after last nights game there was a lot of anger in their dressing room, and I really hope that shows in their final few games of this series. Their resentment for past playoff loses to this Bruins team and their passion for winning big games needs to grow and not wither from here on out. If that happens, I think they can win the 2 out of 3 games needed to clinch the round. If they wither under pressure in Boston on Friday, I'll take this all back.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 18, 2019, 09:07:08 AM
The penalty kill sucks. How about we figure that one out?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 18, 2019, 09:38:28 AM
I wanted to mention that the refs have found their whistle after game 2. I think the Leafs management should be given some props for this. I admire that to the media the players and coaches all said the right thing but behind closed doors, I bet management ripped the league after game 2 and I think it worked.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: lamajama on April 18, 2019, 12:40:58 PM
Colour me freaking annoyed....I have to leave tonight for 3 days and want to PVR Sunday's game but NBC apparently
is going to tell the NHL when Game 6 is....and of course they have not said yet..or at least it's not on the NHL site yet...

Bush league guys...bush league.....
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 18, 2019, 12:45:24 PM
Colour me freaking annoyed....I have to leave tonight for 3 days and want to PVR Sunday's game but NBC apparently
is going to tell the NHL when Game 6 is....and of course they have not said yet..or at least it's not on the NHL site yet...

Bush league guys...bush league.....

Yeah it's pretty crazy that that game doesn't have a start time yet. There were rumours originally that it'd be an afternoon game though.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 18, 2019, 02:11:52 PM
Here are my hot takes after last nights game, because gender bender loves these so much :)

I definitely think the odds-on favorite is still Boston here. The pendulum might have swung more in the Leafs favour after game 3, but its clearly back on Bostons side now.

That being said, the Leafs are in a better position, and I believe they have better odds of beating the Bruins this year than they did last year.

The Leafs seem to reach into their reserve tank when they play as underdogs, and when they absolutely need to win.

It was reported after last nights game there was a lot of anger in their dressing room, and I really hope that shows in their final few games of this series. Their resentment for past playoff loses to this Bruins team and their passion for winning big games needs to grow and not wither from here on out. If that happens, I think they can win the 2 out of 3 games needed to clinch the round. If they wither under pressure in Boston on Friday, I'll take this all back.

I'll listen to YOUR hot takes and anyone else's who doesn't slam the team all season long  :)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 18, 2019, 02:13:11 PM
The penalty kill sucks. How about we figure that one out?

Or how about not taking penalties in the first 5 minutes of the game. I mean, jeez that Brown penalty was so stupid and unnecessary. I think we can beat them 5v5 so let's play 5v5.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 18, 2019, 03:28:31 PM
I feel that if Babs puts some wingers in the blender a bit on 2nd/3rd/4th, could throw Butch off a bit a la Pasta last game. Mango on Auston's left has worked but someone else on his right. Kap has driven wide a lot and it's ended in dead puck zone. Maybe we'll see Mango/Auston/Willy.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2019, 04:02:29 PM
I feel that if Babs puts some wingers in the blender a bit on 2nd/3rd/4th, could throw Butch off a bit a la Pasta last game. Mango on Auston's left has worked but someone else on his right. Kap has driven wide a lot and it's ended in dead puck zone. Maybe we'll see Mango/Auston/Willy.
You won't see that consistently unless they find a 3rd line centre. I don't want Marleau there let alone the centre on that line.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 18, 2019, 05:27:47 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 18, 2019, 05:32:42 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!



Title: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 18, 2019, 05:45:43 PM
My thought was basically just take offensive responsibility away from Marleau, have him as the constant high/low F3 and allow the wingers to be the wheels and forechecking. Marleau is still mobile enough to have his stick in the right defensive spots if that’s his focus.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2019, 05:51:50 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.
I like the way you think but don't see it happening. Wouldn't mind seeing them try this.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2019, 05:53:32 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!




Zaitsev has been good. Last night not so good but if he plays 3 good 1 bad, we'll take it. He isn't coming out anytime soon.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Andy on April 18, 2019, 06:40:06 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!




Zaitsev has been good. Last night not so good but if he plays 3 good 1 bad, we'll take it. He isn't coming out anytime soon.

I've seen other people on here say this too but personally I haven't seen it; I think he's been bad every game. The amount of times that he has carelessly thrown the puck away or flat out iced it, even when not under pressure, has been astounding. I know he isn't coming out of the lineup but I think he's easily been their worst defender.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2019, 06:46:37 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!




Zaitsev has been good. Last night not so good but if he plays 3 good 1 bad, we'll take it. He isn't coming out anytime soon.

I've seen other people on here say this too but personally I haven't seen it; I think he's been bad every game. The amount of times that he has carelessly thrown the puck away or flat out iced it, even when not under pressure, has been astounding. I know he isn't coming out of the lineup but I think he's easily been their worst defender.
I don't know if he's been the worse, simply because he's going against Boston's best. He def is a giveaway machine tho as you mentioned.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: freer on April 18, 2019, 08:45:33 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!




Zaitsev has been good. Last night not so good but if he plays 3 good 1 bad, we'll take it. He isn't coming out anytime soon.

I've seen other people on here say this too but personally I haven't seen it; I think he's been bad every game. The amount of times that he has carelessly thrown the puck away or flat out iced it, even when not under pressure, has been astounding. I know he isn't coming out of the lineup but I think he's easily been their worst defender.

I honestly dont why everyone is bad mouthing Marleau. Yes understand he is not scoring. So we all love Nylander (Not me IMO he lost game two). That whole line hits checks well. All these lines are not going to score. Ennis has been exactly what he was supposed to be hard to hit and tries hard.

Zaitsev has been excellent. IMO I think Muzzen has turned him into a NHL defence man
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: slapshot on April 19, 2019, 01:14:25 PM
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Moore-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Kapanen
Ennis-Goat-Brown

I’d like to see this in game 5, Cassidy would have trouble matching this if Marleau commits to the position change.

I love the look of those lines, although Marleau has been pretty much useless for awhile now. Maybe playing down the middle and all over the ice will keep him from losing every board battle?  :-\

I'd also love to see the backend (snicker) without Zaitsev. I'd go with:

Muzzin    Rielly
Gardiner  Dermott
Rosen      Hainsey 

RHD's be damned!




Zaitsev has been good. Last night not so good but if he plays 3 good 1 bad, we'll take it. He isn't coming out anytime soon.

I've seen other people on here say this too but personally I haven't seen it; I think he's been bad every game. The amount of times that he has carelessly thrown the puck away or flat out iced it, even when not under pressure, has been astounding. I know he isn't coming out of the lineup but I think he's easily been their worst defender.

I honestly dont why everyone is bad mouthing Marleau. Yes understand he is not scoring. So we all love Nylander (Not me IMO he lost game two). That whole line hits checks well. All these lines are not going to score. Ennis has been exactly what he was supposed to be hard to hit and tries hard.

Zaitsev has been excellent. IMO I think Muzzen has turned him into a NHL defence man

I would also be fine with the forward line up changes proposed here, with one exception. I'd keep Johnsson with Mathews, but I agree Kapanan is not working on that line.  On the d, I wouldn't mind if Babs experimented with Rielly, Gardiner together. Hainsey with either Muzzin as shutdown pair or with Dermott. Zaitsev is going to play, though he is certainly pretty unpredictable from game to game. Rosen will stay with Marlies unless a d-man gets hurt and then please use him, anything but Marincin.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 19, 2019, 01:38:41 PM
Rosen will stay with Marlies unless a d-man gets hurt and then please use him, anything but Marincin.
My understanding is that Rosen is with the Leafs and will remain with them. Leafs are only allowed 4 call ups and have used them. I don't think they can send him down and call him back up if needed.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: bustaheims on April 19, 2019, 01:59:57 PM
Rosen will stay with Marlies unless a d-man gets hurt and then please use him, anything but Marincin.
My understanding is that Rosen is with the Leafs and will remain with them. Leafs are only allowed 4 call ups and have used them. I don't think they can send him down and call him back up if needed.

Yup. If they send Rosen back to the AHL, he won’t be able to come back up until the Marlies are eliminated.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 19, 2019, 06:59:13 PM

Game 6 will be at 3pm. Plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: L K on April 19, 2019, 08:18:10 PM
Hockey is not an afternoon sport.   I hate afternoon games
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Hobbes on April 19, 2019, 09:57:23 PM
Hockey is not an afternoon sport.   I hate afternoon games

Marner likes them...that way he's not up past his bedtime.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 19, 2019, 10:05:49 PM
Hockey is not an afternoon sport.   I hate afternoon games

Marner likes them...that way he's not up past his bedtime.
Yup Marner will have his best game!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Arn on April 20, 2019, 08:15:01 AM
I would say last night was probably the best complete game I've seen this current iteration of the Leafs play. Hopefully more of the same tomorrow to break the rotating won cycle
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 20, 2019, 10:10:19 AM
Hockey is not an afternoon sport.   I hate afternoon games

Marner likes them...that way he's not up past his bedtime.

Extra bowl of vanilla ice cream with chocolate sauce for Mitchy.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2019, 03:04:20 PM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 20, 2019, 03:20:50 PM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?

I thought the exact same thing last night when I was guessing who they'd put on with the pulled goalie. I didn't even think of Debrusk
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2019, 03:29:37 PM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?

I thought the exact same thing last night when I was guessing who they'd put on with the pulled goalie. I didn't even think of Debrusk
Amazing isn't it? I guess that's why Babs told Kadri to shut up during game 1 when Kadri was chirping him. If the Bruins have no one to fight with, their tactics become a waste of time. Leafs have stayed away from the glove in the face and all that after whistle crap that these analyst seem to think is playoff hockey. Kypreos' comment after the game about it lacking intensity and that he loved the intensity of game 2 is really mind boggling.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: sickbeast on April 20, 2019, 10:49:49 PM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?

I thought the exact same thing last night when I was guessing who they'd put on with the pulled goalie. I didn't even think of Debrusk
Amazing isn't it? I guess that's why Babs told Kadri to shut up during game 1 when Kadri was chirping him. If the Bruins have no one to fight with, their tactics become a waste of time. Leafs have stayed away from the glove in the face and all that after whistle crap that these analyst seem to think is playoff hockey. Kypreos' comment after the game about it lacking intensity and that he loved the intensity of game 2 is really mind boggling.
Apparently the refs were told league wide to crack down and call more penalties after game 2.  We are lucky.  This has really favored the Leafs.  And for once we got a bit of a questionable call going our way in terms of the Matthews goal counting when that really could have gone either way.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 20, 2019, 10:53:52 PM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?

I thought the exact same thing last night when I was guessing who they'd put on with the pulled goalie. I didn't even think of Debrusk
Amazing isn't it? I guess that's why Babs told Kadri to shut up during game 1 when Kadri was chirping him. If the Bruins have no one to fight with, their tactics become a waste of time. Leafs have stayed away from the glove in the face and all that after whistle crap that these analyst seem to think is playoff hockey. Kypreos' comment after the game about it lacking intensity and that he loved the intensity of game 2 is really mind boggling.
Apparently the refs were told league wide to crack down and call more penalties after game 2.  We are lucky.  This has really favored the Leafs.  And for once we got a bit of a questionable call going our way in terms of the Matthews goal counting when that really could have gone either way.
Most calls have gone in B's favour. Their PP is killing us. We are the far better 5v5 team but we really are lucky to not get burned as badly on our terrible PK, honestly. Aren't we under like 70%?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 21, 2019, 08:03:58 AM
Anyone else notice that without Kadri, DeSuck has been virtually invisible?

I thought the exact same thing last night when I was guessing who they'd put on with the pulled goalie. I didn't even think of Debrusk
Amazing isn't it? I guess that's why Babs told Kadri to shut up during game 1 when Kadri was chirping him. If the Bruins have no one to fight with, their tactics become a waste of time. Leafs have stayed away from the glove in the face and all that after whistle crap that these analyst seem to think is playoff hockey. Kypreos' comment after the game about it lacking intensity and that he loved the intensity of game 2 is really mind boggling.

Kypreos is mind boggling.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: nutman on April 21, 2019, 08:52:43 AM
Please, please Hockey gods give us this win, as a leaf fans we have suffered long enough.

On that note I am all in and ready for 3pm. GLG...............
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 22, 2019, 06:19:52 AM
Laugh, cry, wring your hands, pray...

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Strangelove on April 22, 2019, 10:23:40 AM
Laugh, cry, wring your hands, pray...


It's like we were saying in the game thread. The team is worse when Babcock has a greater opportunity to control the flow of the game through line match-ups.

Babcock needs to let his best players play and force the other team to make adjustments. He also needs to drastically cut down Marleau's ice-time. Shades of Komorov from last year.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 22, 2019, 10:51:07 AM
5 changes I would make heading into game 7:

1) Bump Ennis to the 3rd line. I know everyone wants this to be Moore, but I don't think he would bring a much different element than Marleau or Brown already do. Ennis has the skill that someone like Nylander needs to play with. Don't care which winger gets bumped down, Babcock can alternate between the two throughout the game.

2) Have Tavares take face-offs on the PK. Whether he stays there if the Leafs clear it or he plays the Bozak role of face-off/get-off I don't care, but Hyman's getting devoured by Bergeron out there. His PK face-off percentage is 24%.

3) On the powerplay keep Matthews out for an extra 30 seconds or so after PP1 comes off. I, somewhat, understand the idea between not wanting the top unit to be gased after a powerplay (they probably want the Tavares line fresh for when the Bergeron line comes out shortly afterward), but that doesn't apply to Matthews so let him stay out there.

4) Especially if there's a long stretch of 5-on-5 time, start double shifting Matthews on the 4th line. Maybe have this coincide with Marleau's time on that unit.

5) Similar to 4, try to have Rielly take some shifts on the 3rd pairing. It's painfully obvious that Gardiner and Dermott, especially Gardiner, are playing injured. In game 6 when Hainsey was out Rielly got a bunch of extra ice-time and he was absolutely flying out there. There's really no reason he should be playing less than 25 minutes in game 7.

The prevailing theme here is that Matthews, Tavares, and Rielly need to be leaned on heavily in game 7. It's do or die now so there's no point in worrying about fatigue levels anymore.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 22, 2019, 11:35:04 AM
It's going to be difficult to watch, even if we're up by 10.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 22, 2019, 11:57:30 AM
I'll watch Game 7 in the end, but I'm seriously considering watching the Raptors game and then checking the Leaf score when it's over and deciding if I want to watch the reply at that point. My brain tells me that's what I should do, but I won't. I'll suffer through the Leaf game. Not to say I think they'll lose or suck or anything, it's just that there are really only two ways the game can go. Either I'll have anxiety all game or I'll be some combination of mad/sad.

And am I the only one who's sick of playing Boston? The whole division thing is supposed to create rivalries? But even if the Leafs win, I don't think I'll feel that vindication of beating Boston, I'm actually a little bored at the thought of another Game 7 against them. Maybe it's just a defeatist mindset I'm in.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 22, 2019, 12:16:14 PM
I'll watch Game 7 in the end, but I'm seriously considering watching the Raptors game and then checking the Leaf score when it's over and deciding if I want to watch the reply at that point. My brain tells me that's what I should do, but I won't. I'll suffer through the Leaf game. Not to say I think they'll lose or suck or anything, it's just that there are really only two ways the game can go. Either I'll have anxiety all game or I'll be some combination of mad/sad.

And am I the only one who's sick of playing Boston? The whole division thing is supposed to create rivalries? But even if the Leafs win, I don't think I'll feel that vindication of beating Boston, I'm actually a little bored at the thought of another Game 7 against them. Maybe it's just a defeatist mindset I'm in.
IF... if they beat Boston I am on the Stanley cup bandwagon.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 22, 2019, 01:06:06 PM
I'll watch Game 7 in the end, but I'm seriously considering watching the Raptors game and then checking the Leaf score when it's over and deciding if I want to watch the reply at that point. My brain tells me that's what I should do, but I won't. I'll suffer through the Leaf game. Not to say I think they'll lose or suck or anything, it's just that there are really only two ways the game can go. Either I'll have anxiety all game or I'll be some combination of mad/sad.

And am I the only one who's sick of playing Boston? The whole division thing is supposed to create rivalries? But even if the Leafs win, I don't think I'll feel that vindication of beating Boston, I'm actually a little bored at the thought of another Game 7 against them. Maybe it's just a defeatist mindset I'm in.

It's for sure the fact that we have continual trouble getting over that hump. Hope they can do it, but I'm already preparing myself to not feel super horrible if they lose.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 22, 2019, 01:59:13 PM
5 changes I would make heading into game 7:

1) Bump Ennis to the 3rd line. I know everyone wants this to be Moore, but I don't think he would bring a much different element than Marleau or Brown already do. Ennis has the skill that someone like Nylander needs to play with. Don't care which winger gets bumped down, Babcock can alternate between the two throughout the game.

2) Have Tavares take face-offs on the PK. Whether he stays there if the Leafs clear it or he plays the Bozak role of face-off/get-off I don't care, but Hyman's getting devoured by Bergeron out there. His PK face-off percentage is 24%.

3) On the powerplay keep Matthews out for an extra 30 seconds or so after PP1 comes off. I, somewhat, understand the idea between not wanting the top unit to be gased after a powerplay (they probably want the Tavares line fresh for when the Bergeron line comes out shortly afterward), but that doesn't apply to Matthews so let him stay out there.

4) Especially if there's a long stretch of 5-on-5 time, start double shifting Matthews on the 4th line. Maybe have this coincide with Marleau's time on that unit.

5) Similar to 4, try to have Rielly take some shifts on the 3rd pairing. It's painfully obvious that Gardiner and Dermott, especially Gardiner, are playing injured. In game 6 when Hainsey was out Rielly got a bunch of extra ice-time and he was absolutely flying out there. There's really no reason he should be playing less than 25 minutes in game 7.

The prevailing theme here is that Matthews, Tavares, and Rielly need to be leaned on heavily in game 7. It's do or die now so there's no point in worrying about fatigue levels anymore.

These are all good suggestions ... that should have been done in G6.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bates on April 22, 2019, 02:03:21 PM
I don't quite understand why we even use a 4th line at this point?? 23 or 24 minutes for Tavares and Matthews lines only leaves enough for a Nylander line.  Load it up and don't worry about overusing anyone.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 22, 2019, 02:10:02 PM
5 changes I would make heading into game 7:

1) Bump Ennis to the 3rd line. I know everyone wants this to be Moore, but I don't think he would bring a much different element than Marleau or Brown already do. Ennis has the skill that someone like Nylander needs to play with. Don't care which winger gets bumped down, Babcock can alternate between the two throughout the game.

2) Have Tavares take face-offs on the PK. Whether he stays there if the Leafs clear it or he plays the Bozak role of face-off/get-off I don't care, but Hyman's getting devoured by Bergeron out there. His PK face-off percentage is 24%.

3) On the powerplay keep Matthews out for an extra 30 seconds or so after PP1 comes off. I, somewhat, understand the idea between not wanting the top unit to be gased after a powerplay (they probably want the Tavares line fresh for when the Bergeron line comes out shortly afterward), but that doesn't apply to Matthews so let him stay out there.

4) Especially if there's a long stretch of 5-on-5 time, start double shifting Matthews on the 4th line. Maybe have this coincide with Marleau's time on that unit.

5) Similar to 4, try to have Rielly take some shifts on the 3rd pairing. It's painfully obvious that Gardiner and Dermott, especially Gardiner, are playing injured. In game 6 when Hainsey was out Rielly got a bunch of extra ice-time and he was absolutely flying out there. There's really no reason he should be playing less than 25 minutes in game 7.

The prevailing theme here is that Matthews, Tavares, and Rielly need to be leaned on heavily in game 7. It's do or die now so there's no point in worrying about fatigue levels anymore.
Won't argue with this but I would keep the whole PP1 unit out there for 1:30. You don't use as much energy as a regular shift on the PP so they should be good to go. As far as having someone ready for Bergeron after the PP, he and Marchand usually help kill the pp.
Marleau def needs to be moved off the 3rd line even tho he has as many assists as Marner this series. How sad is that? Marner has 1 even strength point since game 1 and only 2 points since game 1. We need some Marner magic in game 7.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 22, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
I don't quite understand why we even use a 4th line at this point?? 23 or 24 minutes for Tavares and Matthews lines only leaves enough for a Nylander line.  Load it up and don't worry about overusing anyone.
Agree. There's no reason to not run with just 3 centres. Goat is doing nothing. No points, doesn't win faceoffs so what's the point? Start doing stuff like JT line, Matthews, JT line, Matthews line, Willy line. Throw Willy on with Matthews here and there. Boston can't match that and having 1st change should allow Babs to dictate the game. Let them react to it.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Peter D. on April 22, 2019, 04:23:09 PM
As CarltonTheBear suggests, there is no better time to run with your best players than tomorrow.  Time to unshackle Matthews and give him the 24 to 28 minutes like other stars get in the league.  And I'm sure Rielly could handle 30+.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 22, 2019, 04:33:31 PM
As CarltonTheBear suggests, there is no better time to run with your best players than tomorrow.  Time to unshackle Matthews and give him the 24 to 28 minutes like other stars get in the league.  And I'm sure Rielly could handle 30+.
Totally agree. How many think Babs will do it? I don't think he will unfortunately.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 22, 2019, 05:00:41 PM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 22, 2019, 05:21:42 PM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
He hasn't changed from Hyman taking faceoffs on the PK since Lindholm was traded. That's ridiculous. Put out JT or anyone who can possibly win a faceoff.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 22, 2019, 09:58:03 PM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
He hasn't changed from Hyman taking faceoffs on the PK since Lindholm was traded. That's ridiculous. Put out JT or anyone who can possibly win a faceoff.
Hyman wasn't bad on the draw in the regular season. Definitely needs to ride his big guns now.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: LuncheonMeat on April 23, 2019, 01:59:05 AM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
He hasn't changed from Hyman taking faceoffs on the PK since Lindholm was traded. That's ridiculous. Put out JT or anyone who can possibly win a faceoff.
Hyman wasn't bad on the draw in the regular season. Definitely needs to ride his big guns now.

I was surprised by the numbers. Not earth shaking, but pretty solid.

During the 2018/19 season Hyman took 141 face-offs on the PK and was a respectable 48.9%. In D-zone draws short-handed he was 53.1%. Not bad, and only 2% off Tavares.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2019, 02:35:40 AM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
He hasn't changed from Hyman taking faceoffs on the PK since Lindholm was traded. That's ridiculous. Put out JT or anyone who can possibly win a faceoff.
Hyman wasn't bad on the draw in the regular season. Definitely needs to ride his big guns now.

I was surprised by the numbers. Not earth shaking, but pretty solid.

During the 2018/19 season Hyman took 141 face-offs on the PK and was a respectable 48.9%. In D-zone draws short-handed he was 53.1%. Not bad, and only 2% off Tavares.
But he was getting killed by Bergeron so Babs needs to adjust.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2019, 11:52:23 AM
The inability to execute and poor deployment by the coach cost Leafs the game.

If Babcock sees the writing on the wall, he’ll make the changes.  Don’t think he has much choice. 
He hasn't changed from Hyman taking faceoffs on the PK since Lindholm was traded. That's ridiculous. Put out JT or anyone who can possibly win a faceoff.
Hyman wasn't bad on the draw in the regular season. Definitely needs to ride his big guns now.

I was surprised by the numbers. Not earth shaking, but pretty solid.

During the 2018/19 season Hyman took 141 face-offs on the PK and was a respectable 48.9%. In D-zone draws short-handed he was 53.1%. Not bad, and only 2% off Tavares.
But he was getting killed by Bergeron so Babs needs to adjust.

No question. But I think people look at Hyman getting crushed by Bergeron and people automatically think he's been terrible all year long on the draw, which isn't the case. He definitely can't go against Bergeron though.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 23, 2019, 12:30:47 PM
https://theathletic.com/938232/2019/04/22/bourne-the-difficulties-with-fixing-the-leafs-pk-and-why-that-time-should-be-earmarked-for-5-on-5-preparation/

This is a really good peek into the intricacies of special teams adjustments (or any team adjustments for that matter), and why obvious reactionary responses are usually not the successful route to take.

That being said, I think DJ Smith really deserves a promotion to a head coaching gig in OTT/EDM/BUF.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 23, 2019, 02:10:51 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2019, 02:17:31 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
We all need to remember how young this team is. Winning would be a turning point for both franchises I think. Let's hope the Leafs use their speed tonight.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 23, 2019, 02:30:59 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
I hear yeah but this roster won't be affordable in the future. The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2019, 02:43:44 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
I hear yeah but this roster won't be affordable in the future. The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.
Canadian dollar will have no effect on the Leafs. As for affordable. The Leafs will keep their best and replace all others either from within or trades. It really is that simple. The core will stay together and the rest will be moving parts. No team can keep all their players and if we lose changes will be needed anyway.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2019, 02:52:32 PM
The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.
Canadian dollar will have no effect on the Leafs.

It effects the salary cap though, which I believe is what the original point was.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2019, 03:13:57 PM
The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.
Canadian dollar will have no effect on the Leafs.

It effects the salary cap though, which I believe is what the original point was.
My bad..makes sense
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 23, 2019, 04:30:29 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
I hear yeah but this roster won't be affordable in the future. The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.

The roster won't be affordable. The core, for whatever they determine that is, will be though. It's a salary cap world. Their pains are no more than any other team's have been or eventually will be. Not teams that want to be competitive.

The Bruins, as an example, have had to move on from major pieces(Thornton, Seguin) whetehr for money or other reasons in the past and continue to be competitive...for now.
It's all how you manage it.





Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: louisstamos on April 23, 2019, 04:41:07 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
I hear yeah but this roster won't be affordable in the future. The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.

The roster won't be affordable. The core, for whatever they determine that is, will be though. It's a salary cap world. Their pains are no more than any other team's have been or eventually will be. Not teams that want to be competitive.

The Bruins, as an example, have had to move on from major pieces(Thornton, Seguin) whetehr for money or other reasons in the past and continue to be competitive...for now.
It's all how you manage it.

The Hawks are also an excellent example of this - they were under a huge cap crunch after winning their first cup and traded away Ladd, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Eager etc. in 2010.  Won again in 2013 and promptly traded away Frolik and Bolland, and then won again in 2015.  It's all about identifying the core, and keeping good-to-great pieces coming in on the cheap to replace the ones going out.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2019, 05:03:04 PM
Helluva series, been a conference final caliber match-up. Whoever loses tonight certainly doesn't suck.

Also,
Matthews/Marner: 21 years old
Bergeron/Marchand: 33 and 30 years old.

Leafs will improve simply by existing, not so for these Bruins. The future is indeed bright.
Winning this series would be a visible turning point in this franchise.

Go Leafs Go.
I hear yeah but this roster won't be affordable in the future. The cap won't move fast enough. The friggin Canadian dollar is tanking too.

The roster won't be affordable. The core, for whatever they determine that is, will be though. It's a salary cap world. Their pains are no more than any other team's have been or eventually will be. Not teams that want to be competitive.

The Bruins, as an example, have had to move on from major pieces(Thornton, Seguin) whetehr for money or other reasons in the past and continue to be competitive...for now.
It's all how you manage it.

The Hawks are also an excellent example of this - they were under a huge cap crunch after winning their first cup and traded away Ladd, Byfuglien, Versteeg, Eager etc. in 2010.  Won again in 2013 and promptly traded away Frolik and Bolland, and then won again in 2015.  It's all about identifying the core, and keeping good-to-great pieces coming in on the cheap to replace the ones going out.
Leafs will be fine. Their core will remain together and that's all that matters. Don't get too attached to players not named Matthews, Marner, JT, Freddie, Rielly.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: slapshot on April 23, 2019, 10:49:16 PM
My post mortem on the season.

1. This series result should make a few things really clear. On D, Gardiner won't be back. Rosen will replace him, and may wind up being an upgrade. If Hainsey comes back on cheap contract, should be third-pairing to help Dermott the way he's helped really. Leafs need a couple of top grade right-side d-men, one for Rielly and one to replace Zaitsev. Between him and Gardiner, never knew who would cough up the puck more. Gardiner just has more of a flare for the spectacular in that regard, but Zaitsev does his fair share of throwing it away or losing it. Good news is they have Sandin, Liljegren coming along, and some potentially decent other young options in Mac Hollowell and Joseph Duszak, along with Rosen, so things should get straightened out on the back end eventually.
2. Up front, Marleau is barely a shell of the player that arrived two years ago. That final year of that contract looks ugly unless something can be done. Goat should be gone and Leafs look for the 4th line center that can play physical, win faceoffs and play defence. If Bracco shows well in camp, he could make the team next spring, adding yet another offensive right winger. Some will have to be moved, and I hope it's Nylander for a right side d-man. Wish Dubas had already pulled that trigger but perhaps the offers weren't good enough.
3. In goal, Leafs need a strong d in front of Freddie, one that doesn't cough up the puck so much and clear front of net better. Plus a genuine back up. I think he'll eventually push through.

Stronger d, a bit more grit, another year of experience and they'll be fine. Matthews, Marner and Rielly keep getting better. I think Johnsson, Kapanan, Dermott and Moore (who I really like) will all get better too.  Tavares, Hyman and Muzzin will continue to be solid. I think Hyman was playing these playoff hurt.  I still like Brown, and would take Ennis on a cheap contract, same with Hainsey, but the rest I could do without including Nylander, (not referring to goalies here).
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 24, 2019, 02:16:30 AM
Does Babcock stay, does Babcock go:

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 24, 2019, 02:25:21 AM
The knives are out...



https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2019, 02:32:41 AM
Here's a twitter post from Mike Commodore. Needless to say he isn't a fan.

From Mike Commodore.
Well Folks...what a shocker...that piece of shit Babs is blaming anyone but himself...The GM, the goalie, depth. Truth is That Leafs team is good. Real good. Loaded with talent. Generational coach? Leader? bull#$#%.
He’s a fraud.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 24, 2019, 03:51:40 AM
Simmons take:  yes, this is the way it’s seen...a mix of positives & negatives and plenty of what ifs:

https://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/simmons-leafs-eliminate-themselves-in-game-7
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 24, 2019, 03:55:04 AM
Was Freddy overworked:

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 24, 2019, 08:11:51 AM
Here's a twitter post from Mike Commodore. Needless to say he isn't a fan.

There's lot of valid criticisms of Babcock but I wouldn't be looking to Mike Commodore for reasonable ones. There's a one-side blood feud going on there that can only be described as deranged.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2019, 01:14:52 PM
Here's a twitter post from Mike Commodore. Needless to say he isn't a fan.

There's lot of valid criticisms of Babcock but I wouldn't be looking to Mike Commodore for reasonable ones. There's a one-side blood feud going on there that can only be described as deranged.
Me neither. I found it funny. Guy has a hate on for Babs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2019, 01:24:13 PM
Here's a twitter post from Mike Commodore. Needless to say he isn't a fan.

There's lot of valid criticisms of Babcock but I wouldn't be looking to Mike Commodore for reasonable ones. There's a one-side blood feud going on there that can only be described as deranged.
Me neither. I found it funny. Guy has a hate on for Babs.

Him having a hate on for Babcock doesn't mean he's wrong about Babcock.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 24, 2019, 02:01:39 PM
The knives are out...



https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/

That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 24, 2019, 02:04:16 PM
Here's a twitter post from Mike Commodore. Needless to say he isn't a fan.

There's lot of valid criticisms of Babcock but I wouldn't be looking to Mike Commodore for reasonable ones. There's a one-side blood feud going on there that can only be described as deranged.
Me neither. I found it funny. Guy has a hate on for Babs.

Him having a hate on for Babcock doesn't mean he's wrong about Babcock.  The two aren't mutually exclusive.

So you'd go as far as saying in terms of coaching that Babcock is, and I quote, "a fraud"?
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 24, 2019, 02:08:09 PM
That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.

We only made it in that year because Tampa was too injured to make the cut. And McElhinney's magical toe save on Crosby I guess.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 24, 2019, 02:10:40 PM
Well, at least Matthews graduated to the first PP unit this year. Baby steps.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 24, 2019, 03:13:37 PM
The knives are out...

....


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/

That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.

I thought the same. It's completely fair to criticize someone's performance, but at least may it genuine. Him being into the second round only once during that time is pretty much what I'd expect in his situation.

I think he made mistakes; I'm frustrated by some of his decisions. But, I also think he's getting too much of the blame. The players need to be accountable too.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2019, 03:42:13 PM
The knives are out...

....


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/

That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.

I thought the same. It's completely fair to criticize someone's performance, but at least may it genuine. Him being into the second round only once during that time is pretty much what I'd expect in his situation.

I think he made mistakes; I'm frustrated by some of his decisions. But, I also think he's getting too much of the blame. The players need to be accountable too.

Interesting article.  They mentioned he joins King Clancy as the only other Leafs coach to lose in the first round 3 straight years.  I looked up what happened to Clancy after that, he didn't coach anymore.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: BermudaBudsFan on April 24, 2019, 07:39:55 PM
The knives are out...

....


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/

That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.

I thought the same. It's completely fair to criticize someone's performance, but at least may it genuine. Him being into the second round only once during that time is pretty much what I'd expect in his situation.

I think he made mistakes; I'm frustrated by some of his decisions. But, I also think he's getting too much of the blame. The players need to be accountable too.

Interesting article.  They mentioned he joins King Clancy as the only other Leafs coach to lose in the first round 3 straight years.  I looked up what happened to Clancy after that, he didn't coach anymore.
Babcock is getting paid $6.5 million per.  We should never be out coached.  Ever.  Would we have been better with Trotz?  Gallant?  Keefe?  Name your coach.  If the answer is yes, something has to give.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: gunnar36 on April 24, 2019, 08:55:25 PM
Having your PK @ 56.3% is not going to get you to the next round and the coaching needs to shoulder some blame for the personnel choosen and passive strategy. Mind you, having a pk specialist like Michael Grabner could have really helped.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 24, 2019, 09:59:18 PM
The knives are out...

....


https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-fans-upset-babcock-latest-game-7-loss-bruins/

That timeline is disingenuous though - those Red Wings teams he left behind were trash and you wouldn't count the tank year, and really Year 1 with Matthews nobody expected to even be in the playoffs.

I thought the same. It's completely fair to criticize someone's performance, but at least may it genuine. Him being into the second round only once during that time is pretty much what I'd expect in his situation.

I think he made mistakes; I'm frustrated by some of his decisions. But, I also think he's getting too much of the blame. The players need to be accountable too.

Interesting article.  They mentioned he joins King Clancy as the only other Leafs coach to lose in the first round 3 straight years.  I looked up what happened to Clancy after that, he didn't coach anymore.
Babcock is getting paid $6.5 million per.  We should never be out coached.  Ever.  Would we have been better with Trotz?  Gallant?  Keefe?  Name your coach.  If the answer is yes, something has to give.
When one team wins every year the losing team will often be outcoached.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 25, 2019, 01:33:24 PM

That seems like a lie.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 25, 2019, 01:54:43 PM

That seems like a lie.

I don't even really understand what he means by that, especially since our penalty killers next season will almost certainly either be the exact same guys or be replaced by people on the roster right now.

Unless he means he should have fired D.J. Smith in the offseason, in which case yeah.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 25, 2019, 01:58:55 PM
Unless he means he should have fired D.J. Smith in the offseason, in which case yeah.

Lol

I think he's just playing the scapegoat and trying to catch as many arrows for the team that he can.

Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 25, 2019, 02:02:28 PM
Kyle Dubas is responsible for my allergies.

It’s also his fault that my hair line is making a run for the back of my head.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: disco on April 25, 2019, 02:58:09 PM
I'd say Leafs were a timely PP goal or two away from preparing for Columbus right now. It was that close and subtle of a series.

Props to Gards, Hymie and anyone else risking their personal future to make the drive. These guys put everything on the table and I'm proud of them.

Matthews and Marner, the drafted superstar core of this team, just finished their entry-level contracts.

We'll be back and better than ever.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 25, 2019, 02:59:30 PM

We'll be back and better than ever.
I think we will too!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Highlander on April 25, 2019, 05:22:25 PM

We'll be back and better than ever.
I think we will too!
I approve of both of this messages!
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 26, 2019, 04:24:14 PM

We'll be back and better than ever.
I think we will too!
I approve of both of this messages!


Optimism still reigns in spite of everything.  As disappointed as I am, I’m still optimistic seeing the bright future the Leafs club has carved out for itself.  Even with the expectations that we all have, everything can only be on the up and up.

Stay positive, Toronto, this team will get there! 
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 26, 2019, 04:37:42 PM
What the Bruins had to say about the Leafs.  You’re going to love them:


Bergeron: 
Quote
...When you’re playing a series against someone and you know they’re great players like they are...I thought it was a very even series. We came out on top. But still, props to the whole team, basically. And also to us for the way we competed and came back in that series.”
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Dappleganger on April 26, 2019, 05:06:27 PM

That seems like a lie.

It’s easy to take the blame for something that’s clearly not your fault.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: herman on April 26, 2019, 05:14:26 PM

That seems like a lie.

It’s easy to take the blame for something that’s clearly not your fault.

He didn’t adequately replace Komarov and Polak’s PK capabilities.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 26, 2019, 05:35:01 PM

That seems like a lie.

It’s easy to take the blame for something that’s clearly not your fault.

He didn’t adequately replace Komarov and Polak’s PK capabilities.
Hahaha...But Polak sucks, remember? So by Dubas saying that he means Hyman, kappy, Zaitsev and Hainsey weren't good enough right? Dubas can say what he wants but a coach can teach almost anyone willing to be a good PKer. It's about being in the right position, stick position, how you pressure the puck, etc. Pk and PP are on Babs.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: cabber24 on April 27, 2019, 02:54:51 AM
It WILL BE Kyle’s fault if he doesn’t fire Babcock.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 27, 2019, 09:11:19 AM
Dubas can say what he wants but a coach can teach almost anyone willing to be a good PKer. It's about being in the right position, stick position, how you pressure the puck, etc. Pk and PP are on Babs.

I'm sorry but that is false. It takes a certain skillset to be a good penalty killer. Those skills are implemented far earlier in a players development then when they are in the NHL

It's pretty sad that the coach gets blamed when they lose and the players get congratulated when they win. Which one is it?

Babcock certainly made some questionable decisions. So did the players. So did management.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Frycer14 on April 27, 2019, 09:47:33 AM
Hahaha...But Polak sucks, remember?

It is kind of fun to consider that despite Polak, Komorov, Martin, and somewhat Bozak being the whipping boys for the team last year, they're playing active roles on teams that are in the 2nd round. And hey, throw Lou in there, too, the dinosaur that was holding the Leafs back.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Frycer14 on April 27, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
It's pretty sad that the coach gets blamed when they lose and the players get congratulated when they win. Which one is it?

Babcock certainly made some questionable decisions. So did the players. So did management.

Can't agree more.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 27, 2019, 11:34:03 AM
Hahaha...But Polak sucks, remember?

It is kind of fun to consider that despite Polak, Komorov, Martin, and somewhat Bozak being the whipping boys for the team last year, they're playing active roles on teams that are in the 2nd round. And hey, throw Lou in there, too, the dinosaur that was holding the Leafs back.

I hate you and I hate the truths you are bringing me.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 27, 2019, 02:37:29 PM
Dubas can say what he wants but a coach can teach almost anyone willing to be a good PKer. It's about being in the right position, stick position, how you pressure the puck, etc. Pk and PP are on Babs.

I'm sorry but that is false. It takes a certain skillset to be a good penalty killer. Those skills are implemented far earlier in a players development then when they are in the NHL

It's pretty sad that the coach gets blamed when they lose and the players get congratulated when they win. Which one is it?

Babcock certainly made some questionable decisions. So did the players. So did management.

Babs got lots of praise for game 1 and 5. He got a lot of grief for his terrible decision making. As for the PK, I'm sorry it isn't false, the only skillset needed is to be a hard worker. The PP does require more skill but the plan is on the coach. And for the record, I've never said the players are exempt from wrong doing.
And let the hate fly...Polak would have been fine as a 3rd pairing RD for this team. He's not the best puck mover, but he's nasty and makes guys pay.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 27, 2019, 03:46:49 PM
Babs got lots of praise for game 1 and 5. He got a lot of grief for his terrible decision making. As for the PK, I'm sorry it isn't false, the only skillset needed is to be a hard worker. The PP does require more skill but the plan is on the coach. And for the record, I've never said the players are exempt from wrong doing.
And let the hate fly...Polak would have been fine as a 3rd pairing RD for this team. He's not the best puck mover, but he's nasty and makes guys pay.

Say what, now? The PK absolutely requires specific skills and awareness.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 27, 2019, 04:23:26 PM
Babs got lots of praise for game 1 and 5. He got a lot of grief for his terrible decision making. As for the PK, I'm sorry it isn't false, the only skillset needed is to be a hard worker. The PP does require more skill but the plan is on the coach. And for the record, I've never said the players are exempt from wrong doing.
And let the hate fly...Polak would have been fine as a 3rd pairing RD for this team. He's not the best puck mover, but he's nasty and makes guys pay.

Say what, now? The PK absolutely requires specific skills and awareness.
I'm curious so please share what specific skills that Hyman, Brown have that say Johnsson, JT, or almost anyone on the roster doesn't.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bullfrog on April 27, 2019, 04:25:39 PM
http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties (http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties)
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 27, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties (http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties)
And again. Please tell me what skills Hyman and Brown have that JT and the rest don't. I stand by what I said but I'll clarify it. You can teach literally anyone at the NHL level  how to PK.
One last thing from that link you sent..Here's a quote and line from Bob Johnson from your link...
“You don't need great skill to be a good penalty killer”. You just need hard work.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Bender on April 27, 2019, 05:38:11 PM
Hahaha...But Polak sucks, remember?

It is kind of fun to consider that despite Polak, Komorov, Martin, and somewhat Bozak being the whipping boys for the team last year, they're playing active roles on teams that are in the 2nd round. And hey, throw Lou in there, too, the dinosaur that was holding the Leafs back.
Are you implying that if we just hung on to Bozak/Polak/Martin we'd be in a better position? Or that they actually had a fit in our roster? You are aware that players that don't fit our situation here aren't all so shitty that they can't play hockey anymore.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Frycer14 on April 27, 2019, 06:06:26 PM
Hahaha...But Polak sucks, remember?

It is kind of fun to consider that despite Polak, Komorov, Martin, and somewhat Bozak being the whipping boys for the team last year, they're playing active roles on teams that are in the 2nd round. And hey, throw Lou in there, too, the dinosaur that was holding the Leafs back.
Are you implying that if we just hung on to Bozak/Polak/Martin we'd be in a better position? Or that they actually had a fit in our roster? You are aware that players that don't fit our situation here aren't all so shitty that they can't play hockey anymore.

Not at all. My point was relative to your last sentence. I've seen multiple people really, really, going over the top with criticism of players on the current roster for a lot of the season, and up to today - not just "fitting in our situation" - the complaints were far more relative to their abilities as NHL players, just like the players I mentioned above.

Perhaps the angry amateur talent evaluators need to eat a little humble pie, is all.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 27, 2019, 07:23:54 PM
http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties (http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties)
And again. Please tell me what skills Hyman and Brown have that JT and the rest don't. I stand by what I said but I'll clarify it. You can teach literally anyone at the NHL level  how to PK.
One last thing from that link you sent..Here's a quote and line from Bob Johnson from your link...
“You don't need great skill to be a good penalty killer”. You just need hard work.

No one is saying you need "great skill" if that great skill is considered a player that can dance with the puck....but to take away from a great penalty killer by saying "anyone can do it" is completely false. I am not saying that Tavares can't penalty kill. You're using one of the game's best all around players to prove your point. He's not the norm.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 27, 2019, 08:30:43 PM
http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties (http://hockeynow.ca/performance/coach-enio-individual-physical-and-mental-skills-for-killing-penalties)
And again. Please tell me what skills Hyman and Brown have that JT and the rest don't. I stand by what I said but I'll clarify it. You can teach literally anyone at the NHL level  how to PK.
One last thing from that link you sent..Here's a quote and line from Bob Johnson from your link...
“You don't need great skill to be a good penalty killer”. You just need hard work.

No one is saying you need "great skill" if that great skill is considered a player that can dance with the puck....but to take away from a great penalty killer by saying "anyone can do it" is completely false. I am not saying that Tavares can't penalty kill. You're using one of the game's best all around players to prove your point. He's not the norm.
Again you fail to read what I said. Bullfrog said it takes a special skillset. Soooo, I asked what the difference in skill does Hyman possess that JT and the REST don't have so I'm not using just JT as the prime example. So please tell me the special skills Hyman has that the rest who don't pk are missing. We have lots of players who work hard and are good skaters.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Chris on April 27, 2019, 09:01:49 PM
Does anyone have any stats that break down the PPG against the various Leaf penalty killers? Watching the games this year I had the distinct feeling that many were scored while Kapanen was on the ice, and often on his side. There was at least one during the playoffs. I'm wondering if my impressions are backed up by the actual numbers.

I know the guy is fast but if he's not generating breakaways, he seems to often get lost in the dzone while on the penalty kill.
Title: Re: Toronto Maple Leafs vs Boston Bruins - Round 1
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 27, 2019, 09:27:21 PM
I think you may be right Chris. I remember at least 1 in the playoffs also. I think the issue with Kappy was he was too aggressive getting out to the point man which would leave a big gap between him and the D man. I'm sure there are stats to see who wa good or bad on the pk.