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Just for Fun => Ok Blue Jays Talk => Topic started by: hockeyfan1 on February 19, 2019, 02:06:13 AM

Title: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 19, 2019, 02:06:13 AM
As Spring Training begins for all major league teams, the talk of MLB is free agency.  Lots of free agents signed and others yet to decide where they’re headed:

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-white-sox-still-strong-factor-for-machado-red-sox-chris-sale-have-discussed-extension/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-white-sox-still-strong-factor-for-machado-red-sox-chris-sale-have-discussed-extension/)


Top 50 free agents: (signed & unsigned to date:
https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-white-sox-still-strong-factor-for-machado-red-sox-chris-sale-have-discussed-extension/ (https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-rumors-white-sox-still-strong-factor-for-machado-red-sox-chris-sale-have-discussed-extension/)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 19, 2019, 03:57:48 PM
The $300M man.  Manny Machado signs with the San Diego Padres making him the highest paid player in the history of MLB -- 10 yrs/$300M.

Story:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26031051/manny-machado-san-diego-padres-reach-deal (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26031051/manny-machado-san-diego-padres-reach-deal)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: IJustLurkHere on February 19, 2019, 04:07:09 PM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on February 19, 2019, 03:57:48 PM
The $300M man.  Manny Machado signs with the San Diego Padres making him the highest paid player in the history of MLB -- 10 yrs/$300M.

Story:
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26031051/manny-machado-san-diego-padres-reach-deal (http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/26031051/manny-machado-san-diego-padres-reach-deal)

Going by that article, this is not the biggest contract in the history of MLB...
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on February 19, 2019, 04:07:46 PM
Machado won't even be the highest paid player in Southern California.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: bustaheims on February 19, 2019, 04:47:20 PM
It's the largest free agent contract in terms of total value.

It's important to get the details right.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on February 26, 2019, 01:22:20 PM

The Rockies have locked up Arenado to a 8 year extension(with a 3rd year opt-out) at 260 million.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: L K on February 27, 2019, 10:47:27 AM
Craig Kimbrel being done with the Red Sox is interesting.  I'm going to miss his weird delivery.  It's absurd that he's looking for 100 million though.  It's a drastic overpay
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on February 28, 2019, 05:22:56 AM
I've a trip to Philadelphia and DC this September. Hoping to catch games in both cities. Wonder if either will be in a playoff race. Hopefully!
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on March 02, 2019, 06:26:41 PM
Harper signs for Phillie and refuses to take number 34 in honour of Roy Halladay
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on March 03, 2019, 10:13:08 PM
Quote from: Arn on March 02, 2019, 06:26:41 PM
Harper signs for Phillie and refuses to take number 34 in honour of Roy Halladay


$330M/13 yrs.  Wowza.  That’s a lot of moolah.  The largest ever signed in league history.

https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/bryce-harper-contract-details-breakdown-of-the-salary-bonuses-and-perks-in-his-13-year-deal-with-the-phillies/
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on March 03, 2019, 11:35:49 PM
 I know it doesn't tell the whole story but that's a lot of cash for a guy who's hit 30+ homeruns twice and 100 RBI's once.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: bustaheims on March 04, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on March 03, 2019, 11:35:49 PM
I know it doesn't tell the whole story but that's a lot of cash for a guy who's hit 30+ homeruns twice and 100 RBI's once.

When Harper's at his best, he's one of the top 4 or 5 bats in the game. The issue that injuries and inconsistency have plagued him throughout his career. The Phillies are banking on getting more of him at his best then not. History says that's unlikely, but, if they get that guy one of every 3 seasons - that could be enough to make them champions instead of also-rans.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: L K on March 04, 2019, 10:26:28 PM
Quote from: bustaheims on March 04, 2019, 01:33:45 PM
Quote from: Guilt Trip on March 03, 2019, 11:35:49 PM
I know it doesn't tell the whole story but that's a lot of cash for a guy who's hit 30+ homeruns twice and 100 RBI's once.

When Harper's at his best, he's one of the top 4 or 5 bats in the game. The issue that injuries and inconsistency have plagued him throughout his career. The Phillies are banking on getting more of him at his best then not. History says that's unlikely, but, if they get that guy one of every 3 seasons - that could be enough to make them champions instead of also-rans.

The "going rate" for WAR is something like 7 million/1.0 WAR.  That calculation might be a little old now but it would necessitate Harper being a 4+ WAR player in the early years of this contract to justify it. He has hit >4.0 WAR in 3 of his 7 seasons so far.   Harper has one ridiculous season in his career and a number of very good seasons  but he's way too inconsistent for me.  Injuries might explain some of that away but the truly elite guys shouldn't have seasons of 1.1, 1.3 and 1.5 WAR under their belt.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on March 04, 2019, 10:36:40 PM
Quote from: L K on March 04, 2019, 10:26:28 PM
The "going rate" for WAR is something like 7 million/1.0 WAR.  That calculation might be a little old now but it would necessitate Harper being a 4+ WAR player in the early years of this contract to justify it. He has hit >4.0 WAR in 3 of his 7 seasons so far.   Harper has one ridiculous season in his career and a number of very good seasons  but he's way too inconsistent for me.  Injuries might explain some of that away but the truly elite guys shouldn't have seasons of 1.1, 1.3 and 1.5 WAR under their belt.

To some extent that reveals some of the problems with WAR though. In those three years you're including a year where he was hurt(although he wasn't playing great) and you're including a very strange situation where Harper's bat produced a lot of value but he had a bizarrely badly rated year in the field.

He's produced at almost exactly a 4 WAR per year rate if you average out his career so I don't think of it as that huge a divide between his value and this deal. If we try to use the NHL as a comparison with McDavid and Kershaw representing the high side of the scale then Harper's per year deal equates to roughly a 9 million NHL deal. For a guy with real MVP potential I think it's a fair deal if too long for my tastes.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on March 23, 2019, 08:17:43 AM
New rule changes coming to MLB, slated to commence this year and the rest to be finalized by the 2020 Major League season

Some of the changes:

- 28 player roster for September for all teams (starting in 2020)
- July 31 trade deadline (no more trades after this date will be permitted)
- the introduction of the 15-day DL rather than the current 10-day DL
- two minute maximum commercial breaks
- five mound visits allowed this year; four in 2020

...and much more.

For details:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2019/03/14/mlb-new-rule-changes-roster-3-batter-minimum/3157226002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2019/03/14/mlb-new-rule-changes-roster-3-batter-minimum/3157226002/)

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: The Empire on March 26, 2019, 09:30:00 AM
Quote from: hockeyfan1 on March 23, 2019, 08:17:43 AM
New rule changes coming to MLB, slated to commence this year and the rest to be finalized by the 2020 Major League season

Some of the changes:

- 28 player roster for September for all teams (starting in 2020)
- July 31 trade deadline (no more trades after this date will be permitted)
- the introduction of the 15-day DL rather than the current 10-day DL
- two minute maximum commercial breaks
- five mound visits allowed this year; four in 2020

...and much more.

For details:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2019/03/14/mlb-new-rule-changes-roster-3-batter-minimum/3157226002/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2019/03/14/mlb-new-rule-changes-roster-3-batter-minimum/3157226002/)


...add "All pitchers must face at least three batters or end a half-inning, unless injured"  This will be big and goes to the heart of the lefty/righty matchup strategy but will quicken the game.  Also it's the IL and not the DL anymore  :)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Highlander on April 03, 2019, 11:14:27 AM
That is a huge rule change. Wow!
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: L K on April 03, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
The elimination of the 40-man callup roster seems pretty drastic.   I still think the 3-batter/inning ending requirement for a pitcher is stupid.  Are they forcing pinch hitters to stay in the game after hitting, nope.  So why do it to pitchers.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Bender on April 03, 2019, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: L K on April 03, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
The elimination of the 40-man callup roster seems pretty drastic.   I still think the 3-batter/inning ending requirement for a pitcher is stupid.  Are they forcing pinch hitters to stay in the game after hitting, nope.  So why do it to pitchers.
Switching pitchers slows the game down? Not sure but I could see that being the case.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 03, 2019, 10:50:06 PM
Quote from: Gender Bender on April 03, 2019, 10:28:15 PM
Quote from: L K on April 03, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
The elimination of the 40-man callup roster seems pretty drastic.   I still think the 3-batter/inning ending requirement for a pitcher is stupid.  Are they forcing pinch hitters to stay in the game after hitting, nope.  So why do it to pitchers.
Switching pitchers slows the game down? Not sure but I could see that being the case.
Exactly. The game is already painfully slow. Good move by MLB.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on April 03, 2019, 10:58:12 PM
Quote from: L K on April 03, 2019, 12:50:59 PM
The elimination of the 40-man callup roster seems pretty drastic.   I still think the 3-batter/inning ending requirement for a pitcher is stupid.  Are they forcing pinch hitters to stay in the game after hitting, nope.  So why do it to pitchers.

I actually like the elimination of the callup roster. It meant September games were basically played under an entirely different set of rules.

The pitching thing is tricky in as much as it's a bit like Trap Hockey in the 90's. Managers have figured out a way within the rules to have a strategic edge while killing the flow and pace of the game. I appreciate not wanting to punish ingenuity but these 3 and 4 hour games are pretty tough to watch.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 01, 2019, 07:20:49 PM
MLB set a total home runs record for the month of May:

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on June 20, 2019, 01:56:29 PM

Apparently the Rays are going to explore splitting their home games between Tampa and Montreal in a scenario that doesn't seem all that well thought out:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27016429/sources-rays-explore-playing-montreal (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27016429/sources-rays-explore-playing-montreal)

Probably just another threat aimed at a city that doesn't want to cave on public financing for a stadium but, still, could be an interesting development if they decide to move for good.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: cabber24 on June 20, 2019, 02:07:40 PM
Quote from: Nik the Trik on June 20, 2019, 01:56:29 PM

Apparently the Rays are going to explore splitting their home games between Tampa and Montreal in a scenario that doesn't seem all that well thought out:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27016429/sources-rays-explore-playing-montreal (https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/27016429/sources-rays-explore-playing-montreal)

Probably just another threat aimed at a city that doesn't want to cave on public financing for a stadium but, still, could be an interesting development if they decide to move for good.
Pay for two stadiums? I guess the idea is that it would be easier to sell tickets to half as many games in each city but I still can't get my head around the economics. Can't imagine any player being on board for this either.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Rob on June 20, 2019, 02:36:32 PM
Ya I'm sure the people of Montreal are looking to pack a new stadium for the next 25 years to cheer for the Tampa Bay Rays.   
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on June 21, 2019, 02:17:18 AM
I was at a game in Tropicana Field a couple of years back. It’s certainly “quaint”

There was a massive thunderstorm outside and the roof was leaking too. Water pouring through.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on June 29, 2019, 04:37:50 PM
Have to say, the London stadium looks very well considering it’s a converted soccer stadium. The Red Sox not looking so good...
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on June 29, 2019, 05:32:39 PM
Ok, the game itself is madness. Was 6-6 after the first and it’s gotten madder since
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on June 29, 2019, 05:56:21 PM
Yup that was bananas.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on June 29, 2019, 06:37:42 PM
Yankees win over the Red Sox 17-13 in the first-ever MLB series played overseas.  The series concludes Sunday.

Some highlights:

Duke and Duchess of Sussex:



An awesome sight:

The mascots race:

More:
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/yankees-vs-red-sox/2019/06/29/565067#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=565067 (https://www.mlb.com/gameday/yankees-vs-red-sox/2019/06/29/565067#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=565067)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 10, 2019, 01:14:02 AM
A.L. Wins ASG 4-3.  MVP was P Shane Bieber of the Indians.


https://www.mlb.com/news/al-beats-nl-for-7th-straight-all-star-win (https://www.mlb.com/news/al-beats-nl-for-7th-straight-all-star-win)


Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Frank E on July 25, 2019, 05:22:42 PM
Tulo out.

https://www.tsn.ca/new-york-yankees-ss-troy-tulowitzki-announces-retirement-1.1342141

Jays got the last ounce out of him, but it really was just an ounce.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Highlander on July 28, 2019, 07:33:28 PM
Quote from: Frank E on July 25, 2019, 05:22:42 PM
Tulo out.

https://www.tsn.ca/new-york-yankees-ss-troy-tulowitzki-announces-retirement-1.1342141

Jays got the last ounce out of him, but it really was just an ounce.
When I mentioned it as an ounce and a quarter, but who is trifling? ;)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 01, 2019, 12:51:19 PM
Crazy brawl between the Red & the Pirates.  Yusiel Puig in the mix.

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Captain Canuck on August 03, 2019, 10:20:49 PM
Aaron Sanchez and Joe Biagini pitch 7 innings combined of tonight's Astros no-hitter. Meanwhile, Derek Fisher gets smashed in the face whiffing on catching a fly ball.   :P
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 16, 2019, 07:09:36 PM
Implementation of a “Mercy rule?”  Anyone agree?

https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1813528/yankees-boone-mlb-should-consider-implementing-mercy-rule (https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1813528/yankees-boone-mlb-should-consider-implementing-mercy-rule)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 21, 2019, 07:57:53 PM
Beautiful moment:

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 28, 2019, 08:37:12 AM
Former  Blue Jay Josh Donaldson still harbours bitterness with what transpired between himself and the Jays medical staff, in the handling of his injuries while a Blue Jay.

Donaldson, now a Brave, has 32 home runs vand a .903 OPS, which includes 76 RBIs and a .374 OBP.  Looks like a gem (if not a risk) of a free agent signing for Atlanta GM Anthopoulos (remember him)?

Donaldson became a member of the Braves last season.

Story:
https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/08/27/the-pain-from-josh-donaldsons-experience-with-the-jays-training-staff-still-lingers.html (https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2019/08/27/the-pain-from-josh-donaldsons-experience-with-the-jays-training-staff-still-lingers.html)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 15, 2019, 07:13:47 PM
The Yankees Pitcher CC Sabathia received tribute from the Blue Jays organization in Toronto upon his impending retirement from baseball:

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 30, 2019, 03:12:43 AM
Couple of WC games:

Milwaukee Brewers vs Washington Nationals  Oct. 1 (N.L.)
Tampa Bay Rays vs Oakland Athletics            Oct.2   (A.L.)

Post-season begins in earnest Thursday Oct.3rd.

Schedule:
https://www.mlb.com/postseason (https://www.mlb.com/postseason)
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 30, 2019, 06:02:26 AM
The Wildcard games have been some of my favourite games to watch.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Arn on September 30, 2019, 06:38:50 AM
Would like to see Milwaukee and Tampa winning those WC games
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 02, 2019, 07:08:53 AM
Nationals take it.  Defeat the Brewers 4-3 in their N.L.WC game.
Now on to the (Best-of-five) NLDS vs LA Dodgers Thursday.

Hi-lites/story:
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/brewers-vs-nationals/2019/10/01/599336#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=box,game=599336
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 03, 2019, 09:56:02 AM
Rays are in.  Defeat the Athletics 5-1 in the A.L.WC game.
Move on to the (Best-of-five) ALDS vs Houston Astros Friday.

Hi-lites/story:
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/rays-vs-athletics/2019/10/02/599335#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=599335
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 03, 2019, 10:00:32 AM
Here are the matchups for each LDS:

ALDS
Minnesota Twins vs New York Yankees
Tampa Bay vs Houston Astros

NLDS
Washington Nationals vs Los Angeles Dodgers
St. Louis Cardinals bs Atlanta Braves

For complete schedule (date, times, etc.):
https://www.mlb.com/postseason
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 09, 2019, 06:19:30 AM
NY Yankees won their ALDS over the Minnesota Twins 3 games to 0.

New York awaits the winner of the Tampa Bay / Houston series, currently tied at 2 games apiece.   The decisive Game  5 goes Thursday in Tampa Bay.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 10, 2019, 11:38:15 PM
The Astros are in!  Beat the Rays 6-1 in the decisive Game 5 to advance to the ALCS vs the NY Yankees.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 10, 2019, 11:42:54 PM
The St. Louis Cardinals  set a MLB record scoring 10 runs all in the first inning enroute to a 13-1 shellacking of the Atlanta Braves in Game 5.

The Washington Nationals also advanced defeating among baseball’s best team the L.A. Dodgers 7-3 in Game 5.

The Cardinals will play the Nationals in the NLCS.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 10, 2019, 11:46:21 PM
Matchups all set for the LCS:

NLCS  Cardinals vs Nationals begins Friday Oct. 11th.
ALCS  Astros vs Yankees begins Saturday October 12th.

Check out this page for more details:
https://www.mlb.com/postseason
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 22, 2019, 04:30:29 AM
It’s the Houston Astros vs the Washington Nationals for the World Series.

The Nationals long defeated the St.Louis Cardinals in 4 straight games in their NLCS, while the Astros recently dispensed of the NY Yankees 4 games to 2.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 22, 2019, 04:35:14 AM
2019 World Series starts Tuesday October 22.

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q90/921/tykBPa.png)  vs (https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/150x100q90/921/zlbuti.png)

WS schedule:
https://www.mlb.com/postseason
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 31, 2019, 02:56:03 AM
What a way to go!

The Washington Nationals beat the defending WS Champion Houston Astros 6-2 last night to win the franchise’s first World Series Championship 4 games to 3.





Hi-lites & more:
https://www.mlb.com/gameday/nationals-vs-astros/2019/10/30/599377#game_state=final,lock_state=final,game_tab=videos,game=599377
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on December 23, 2019, 04:24:08 AM
A sign of the times...minor MLB drug policy change:

Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Hobbes on January 13, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
This is fun:

Quote from: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/mlb-astros-investigation-hinch-suspended-sign-stealing-1.5425234
Houston manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow were suspended for the entire 2020 season on Monday and the team was fined $5 million US for sign-stealing by the team in 2017 and 2018 season.

Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced the discipline and strongly hinted that current Boston manager Alex Cora, the Astros bench coach in 2017, will face punishment later. Manfred said Cora developed the sign-stealing system used by the Astros.

Houston also will forfeit its next two first- and second-round draft picks.

So basically the two teams implicated
- won the World Series in 2017 (Astros)
- won the World Series in 2018 (Sox)
- came within 1 win of the World Series in 2019 (Astros)

Maybe they ought to be stripped of the titles?
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: herman on January 13, 2020, 03:21:02 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on January 13, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
This is fun:

Quote from: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/mlb-astros-investigation-hinch-suspended-sign-stealing-1.5425234
Houston manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow were suspended for the entire 2020 season on Monday and the team was fined $5 million US for sign-stealing by the team in 2017 and 2018 season.

Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced the discipline and strongly hinted that current Boston manager Alex Cora, the Astros bench coach in 2017, will face punishment later. Manfred said Cora developed the sign-stealing system used by the Astros.

Houston also will forfeit its next two first- and second-round draft picks.

So basically the two teams implicated
- won the World Series in 2017 (Astros)
- won the World Series in 2018 (Sox)
- came within 1 win of the World Series in 2019 (Astros)

Maybe they ought to be stripped of the titles?

They just got fired
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: The Empire on January 13, 2020, 05:07:25 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on January 13, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
This is fun:

Quote from: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/mlb-astros-investigation-hinch-suspended-sign-stealing-1.5425234
Houston manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow were suspended for the entire 2020 season on Monday and the team was fined $5 million US for sign-stealing by the team in 2017 and 2018 season.

Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced the discipline and strongly hinted that current Boston manager Alex Cora, the Astros bench coach in 2017, will face punishment later. Manfred said Cora developed the sign-stealing system used by the Astros.

Houston also will forfeit its next two first- and second-round draft picks.

So basically the two teams implicated
- won the World Series in 2017 (Astros)
- won the World Series in 2018 (Sox)
- came within 1 win of the World Series in 2019 (Astros)

Maybe they ought to be stripped of the titles?

I don't know...then your also penalizing pretty much everyone in the organization including the fans.  No doubt this is bad though and they deserve the punishment.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on January 13, 2020, 08:53:15 PM
Quote from: Hobbes on January 13, 2020, 03:12:41 PM
This is fun:

Quote from: https://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/mlb/mlb-astros-investigation-hinch-suspended-sign-stealing-1.5425234
Houston manager AJ Hinch and general manager Jeff Luhnow were suspended for the entire 2020 season on Monday and the team was fined $5 million US for sign-stealing by the team in 2017 and 2018 season.

Major League Baseball commissioner Rob Manfred announced the discipline and strongly hinted that current Boston manager Alex Cora, the Astros bench coach in 2017, will face punishment later. Manfred said Cora developed the sign-stealing system used by the Astros.

Houston also will forfeit its next two first- and second-round draft picks.

So basically the two teams implicated
- won the World Series in 2017 (Astros)
- won the World Series in 2018 (Sox)
- came within 1 win of the World Series in 2019 (Astros)

Maybe they ought to be stripped of the titles?
.

I don't think there's any maybe about it. Aside from the actual issue of being fair to the Dodgers and their fans, stripping them of the titles just acknowledges the reality that no one will ever view them as legitimate titles ever again.

Like if you know any Astros or Red Sox fans who bragged about these victories from here on out it'd absolutely be met with "You mean the titles you cheated for?" so it's not like the fans get anything out of those titles anymore anyway. All leaving the banners up means is that there's still incentive for owners t sanction cheating.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: L K on January 13, 2020, 11:20:56 PM
Quote
Most of the position players on the 2017 team either received sign
information from the banging scheme or participated in the scheme by helping to decode
signs or bang on the trash can. Many of the players who were interviewed admitted that
they knew the scheme was wrong because it crossed the line from what the player believed
was fair competition and/or violated MLB rules. Players stated that if Manager A.J. Hinch
told them to stop engaging in the conduct, they would have immediately stopped.

Although the Astros’ players did not attempt to hide what they were doing from
Hinch or other Astros employees, they were concerned about getting caught by players
from other teams. Several players told my investigators that there was a sense of “panic”
in the Astros’ dugout after White Sox pitcher Danny Farquhar appeared to notice the trash
can bangs. Before the game ended, a group of Astros players removed the monitor from
the wall in the tunnel and hid it in an office. For the Postseason, a portable monitor was
set up on a table to replace the monitor that had been affixed to the wall near the dugout.

And yet Manfred didn't have the balls to punish players.    He's a coward.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on January 13, 2020, 11:31:45 PM

Pretty tough to punish players for something sanctioned by the manager and organization. You'd effectively be asking guys, and most of the Astros that year were young and or fringey players, to be crossing their employers.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Peter D. on January 14, 2020, 11:19:38 AM
Quote from: Nik Bethune on January 13, 2020, 08:53:15 PM
Like if you know any Astros or Red Sox fans who bragged about these victories from here on out it'd absolutely be met with "You mean the titles you cheated for?" so it's not like the fans get anything out of those titles anymore anyway. All leaving the banners up means is that there's still incentive for owners t sanction cheating.

Yup.  They can be said to have an asterisk beside their title and/or have people view the championship as tainted, but as long as the trophy continues to be held and displayed and the banner flown, it means squat.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: bustaheims on January 14, 2020, 11:47:13 AM
Quote from: Nik Bethune on January 13, 2020, 11:31:45 PM
Pretty tough to punish players for something sanctioned by the manager and organization. You'd effectively be asking guys, and most of the Astros that year were young and or fringey players, to be crossing their employers.

Yeah. Also, any serious punishment for the players would have been met with strong resistance from the union for those same reasons - not to mention the difficulties MLB might have in identifying which individual players to target for this, how they'd justify that (especially if they have suspensions of varying lengths), etc. Going after the manager and GM is the path of least resistance, and, along with the loss of draft picks, sends a pretty strong message - and, as long as the Red Sox face similar punishment, it's a clear and consistent message. Stripping them of their titles would be the only thing that I'd like to see added.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Nik on January 14, 2020, 12:08:12 PM

I mean, let's be clear about this. This was not a significant punishment. The Astros fired their Manager and GM. Managers and GMs get fired every year. They lost 4 draft picks in a sport where draft picks are a bigger roll of the dice than any other. They got fined 5 million dollars which is the equivalent of a bad speeding ticket for someone like Jim Crane.

There's no real organizational consequence here. If you were the owner of another team and saw having to fire two employees, lose some draft picks and an insignificant fine as the punishment would it really deter you from cheating?
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on January 14, 2020, 07:12:19 PM
Pretty well sums it up:

Quote
Giving the players a free pass is the cost of doing business and it should allow the league to move on quicker than it otherwise would. Still, this cannot and should not be used as precedent to allow players to escape from future punishment. Whether they organized it, or were simply complicit, is irrelevant. The players are just all guilty, if not more, than Cora, Luhnow and Hinch and they should feel fortunate to have gotten away with it.


https://www.thestar.com/sports/bluejays/opinion/2020/01/14/while-astros-front-office-takes-the-fall-for-sign-stealing-scandal-the-players-get-a-free-pass.html
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: Highlander on January 14, 2020, 08:48:14 PM
No way the players should have been given a free pass.
Title: Larry Walker inducted into Baseball Hall of Fame
Post by: Nik on January 21, 2020, 06:20:26 PM

Also some other guy on the Yankees.
Title: Re: 2019 MLB Thread
Post by: hockeyfan1 on January 31, 2020, 08:59:27 AM
Wow.  Just wow.

The scope of the Astros cheating is huge, as can be seen by an Astros’ fan’s study of the team’s sign-stealing tactics via electronic means:


A number of Houston players are particularly culpable, thus making the depth of this whole scandal ever more “infuriating”:

Quote
The findings quickly made the rounds, re-infuriating those who were wronged. Learning of how the Astros cheated was bad enough. Seeing everything laid out pitch-by-pitch and outcome-by-outcome made it all the more maddening.

Yulieski Gurriel, the older brother of Blue Jays left-fielder Lourdes, turned changeups he knew were coming from Valdez into a homer in the first and a single in the third. Tyler White homered off a J.P. Howell cutter he was expecting in the eighth and singled on a Bolsinger curveball in the fourth. Josh Reddick singled on a Matt Dermody hook while Jake Marisnick did the same on another Bolsinger curve that same inning.

Pretty damning stuff.

The sign-stealing noise signals:



https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/pitch-catalogue-astros-sign-stealing-angers-17-blue-jays/ (https://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/pitch-catalogue-astros-sign-stealing-angers-17-blue-jays/)