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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:59:48 PM

Title: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 12:59:48 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:00:18 PM
Zoiks.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:00:29 PM
So Elliotte is more reliable than MLHS?  Pfft.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:00:54 PM
I guess we're going to find whether possession really is the best defense.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:02:01 PM
So Elliotte is more reliable than MLHS?  Pfft.

They wouldnt have put their whole operation on the line unless they were otherwise certain.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:02:15 PM
(https://www.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/leafs/opinion/2018/06/18/leafs-kyle-dubas-the-stage-as-draft-free-agency-near/dubas.jpg)

Can someone photoshop me a different cup?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:02:45 PM
Never forget folks, I'm a huge moron.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Arn on July 01, 2018, 01:02:56 PM
Wow.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 01:03:00 PM
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 01:03:12 PM
Never forget folks, I'm a huge moron.
Quoted !!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:03:25 PM
Well, we REALLY could have used a good defenseman more but I  guessaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiyeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:03:26 PM
Per @91Tavares
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhCPh3SUcAA2huA.jpg)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:03:57 PM
wow
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:04:07 PM
Never forget folks, I'm a huge moron.

Johnny's boyhood dream is coming true.  ;) :)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on July 01, 2018, 01:05:18 PM
Looks like being awesome is back on the menu.  All praise Dubas
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:05:40 PM
I mean, seriously, this is a game for boys who just happen to have grown bigger.  It means something to pull on the sweater you dreamed about growing up.  It's not always all about the $$$.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:05:44 PM
Kypreos just said he thinks it's an $11mil AAV. That's a win for us.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: barney_rebel on July 01, 2018, 01:06:03 PM
We rule man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:06:38 PM
Per @91Tavares

Was not expecting the "childhood dream" to be part of his announcement.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:06:49 PM
I mean, seriously, this is a game for boys who just happen to have grown bigger.  It means something to pull on the sweater you dreamed about growing up.  It's not always all about the $$$.

Although 77 million doesn't hurt.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:07:14 PM
I mean, seriously, this is a game for boys who just happen to have grown bigger.  It means something to pull on the sweater you dreamed about growing up.  It's not always all about the $$$.

Although 77 million doesn't hurt.

Sportsnet was saying San Jose was offering $13mil.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:07:23 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 01:07:59 PM
ĎMy childhood dream here in Torontoí
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:08:12 PM
I mean, seriously, this is a game for boys who just happen to have grown bigger.  It means something to pull on the sweater you dreamed about growing up.  It's not always all about the $$$.

Although 77 million doesn't hurt.

Of course, but NYI's offer matched his number.  That's a huge difference.

BTW I suspect Dubas will have no problem letting him keep #91.  Bold prediction: Nylander suits up as #92.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:08:18 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:08:37 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:08:47 PM
I mean, seriously, this is a game for boys who just happen to have grown bigger.  It means something to pull on the sweater you dreamed about growing up.  It's not always all about the $$$.

Although 77 million doesn't hurt.

Sportsnet was saying San Jose was offering $13mil.

Yeah but San Jose sucks. It's a garbage town for chumps.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:09:24 PM
Give MLHS credit, they broke this at 11:55am.  Wonder who they know.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 01, 2018, 01:09:44 PM
Great cap hit. Shocking really.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:10:10 PM

Wow.  I mean, I was arguing this angle but it's totally why he decided.  Wow.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 01:10:25 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DhCPFSDUcAAu6Dd.jpg)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: AvroArrow on July 01, 2018, 01:11:50 PM
Jackpot!  We're coming for you, Stanley.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2018, 01:12:30 PM
Omgomgomgomgomg
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:13:03 PM
I don't know how to post one of them tweets but here is this:

Iím thrilled to be starting a new chapter of my career and life in Toronto with the @MapleLeafs. I feel very fortunate to come join a team with a great young core and play where I grew up learning and loving the game. I canít wait to get started!

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:13:16 PM
Alright, give him the C. No question about that now.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:13:23 PM

Wow.  I mean, I was arguing this angle but it's totally why he decided.  Wow.

I think thatís a contributing factor but the real reason should be that the Leafs have the longest runway for contention of the 6.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:13:33 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:14:22 PM
Great cap hit. Shocking really.

And announced by Leafs PR. That's pretty unusual, no?

$11m is really great. The can probably keep everyone other than Gardiner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:15:57 PM

Wow.  I mean, I was arguing this angle but it's totally why he decided.  Wow.

I think thatís a contributing factor but the real reason should be that the Leafs have the longest runway for contention of the 6.

7x11?   Seriously?  Leaving 14 on the table with Lou and 7x13 with SJ?  It's the *real* reason.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 01, 2018, 01:15:58 PM

Wow.  I mean, I was arguing this angle but it's totally why he decided.  Wow.
He had a soft spot for Naboo?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:16:02 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:19:43 PM
OK, he's been a Leaf for a full 15 minutes now.  Let's start stirring the pot:

Is this Matthews' team, or Tavares'?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:20:11 PM
OK, he's been a Leaf for a full 15 minutes now.  Let's start stirring the pot:

Is this Matthews' team, or Tavares'?

Shanahan/Dubasí
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:20:56 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:21:31 PM
OK, he's been a Leaf for a full 15 minutes now.  Let's start stirring the pot:

Is this Matthews' team, or Tavares'?

It's Canada's team, ZBBM. Canada's team.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:22:54 PM
OK, he's been a Leaf for a full 15 minutes now.  Let's start stirring the pot:

Is this Matthews' team, or Tavares'?

It's Canada's team, ZBBM. Canada's team.

I'm just previewing Simmons' column tomorrow.  :P
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 01, 2018, 01:23:11 PM
Turns out Kyle Dubas is the best Leafs GM ever. Who knew?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:23:36 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

Jesus, those are pretty good lines.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:23:54 PM
Imagine a 5-forward PP unit:

             Tavares
Matthews-Kadri-Marner
             Nylander
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 01, 2018, 01:24:15 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

Jesus, those are pretty good lines.

Monster lines.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:24:33 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

Jesus, those are pretty good lines.

Havenít we been pitching this for the year?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 01, 2018, 01:24:45 PM
Imagine a 5-forward PP unit:

             Tavares
Matthews-Kadri-Marner
             Nylander

I approve of this.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:24:53 PM
Turns out Kyle Dubas is the best Leafs GM ever. Who knew?

It worked out perfectly. Tavares grew up a Leafs fan and Dubas grew up as a Tavares fan.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 01, 2018, 01:25:09 PM
Give Wes Clark a 7-year extension.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:25:44 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

Jesus, those are pretty good lines.

Kinda top-6/ bottom-6 for my tastes.

But oh what a top 6!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:26:36 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 01:26:50 PM
Omg. Is this true or am I being punked?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Arn on July 01, 2018, 01:27:17 PM
So I go:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

Aren't you forgetting Matt Martin?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 01:29:06 PM
What a massive coup to take away Roman Polak.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: freer on July 01, 2018, 01:30:11 PM
I love the signing! I just hope we can keep William still and get a D-man
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Peter D. on July 01, 2018, 01:30:39 PM
Welcome home JT!

Greatest signing in Leafs history.

Can't wait to see him pull over the #91 jersey.  :D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 01:31:32 PM
Turns out Kyle Dubas is the best Leafs GM ever. Who knew?

It worked out perfectly. Tavares grew up a Leafs fan and Dubas grew up as a Tavares fan.

That's gold.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: pmrules on July 01, 2018, 01:32:45 PM
This is fantastic news. 

Is this real life???

A hockey player in his prime leaving his draft team?

A Toronto boy coming home to live his dream?

In this cold weather?

In this high tax situation?

With all the negativity surrounding being at home ( family and friends somehow being a distraction?)

Taking a home town discount of reportedly $2M per year.

This is unprecedented...I love it!!!

Go Leafs Go!!!!


Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:33:39 PM
Turns out Kyle Dubas is the best Leafs GM ever. Who knew?

It worked out perfectly. Tavares grew up a Leafs fan and Dubas grew up as a Tavares fan.

That's gold.

Platinum gold.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:34:03 PM
Welcome home JT!

Greatest signing in Leafs history.

Can't wait to see him pull over the #91 jersey.  :D

I mean... probably in the post-cap NHL too, no?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:35:15 PM
Welcome home JT!

Greatest signing in Leafs history.

Can't wait to see him pull over the #91 jersey.  :D

I mean... probably in the post-cap NHL too, no?

It would probably depend on how you measure things. Chara worked out pretty well.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:35:40 PM
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

I just wanted to post this again.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:37:05 PM
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

I just wanted to post this again.

Kristin Shilton's story on tsn.ca has a screenshot with those exact lines, and Kappy on the 4th with Lindholm at 4C.

Of course, the 1st pairing D is a bit sobering.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
It would probably depend on how you measure things. Chara worked out pretty well.

Ah, yes. Forgot that one.

Also forgetting any other top-10 Cs or Ds that have left as UFAs.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:39:11 PM

They played together a bit earlier in their careers... (http://londonknights.com/tavares-kadri-new-alliance-on-brief-hiatus)

Quote
Kadri, who has been shifted by Knights coach Dale Hunter from centre to the wing in part so he can play with Tavares, said ďitís not a big deal going to wing. When you can play with someone the calibre of Johnny, it makes it an even easier adjustment.Ē


Johnsson - Matthews - Hyman
Kadri - Tavares - Marner
Marleau - Nylander - Kapanen
six-minute-men
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:40:24 PM
Kristin Shilton's story on tsn.ca has a screenshot with those exact lines, and Kappy on the 4th with Lindholm at 4C.

Of course, the 1st pairing D is a bit sobering.

Considering how many minutes the top-3 lines are going to need, playing Brown or Kapanen on the 4th line would be a waste. One of them is getting dealt this offseason for a defenceman. Book it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:42:06 PM

lol
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: pmrules on July 01, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen

I just wanted to post this again.

Drools!!!!

These are three lines all deserving of 18 mins. 

A 4th line for 6 mins is all that is needed at least for this year. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:45:07 PM
I've brought this up before, but I think it's even more true now than ever before. Leafs should run 11 forwards/7 defencemen.

The 4th line can be two of Leivo/Grundstrom/Brown/Kapanen and then a rotating C group of Matthews/Tavares/Kadri/Nylander to get them extra minutes throughout the game.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 01:45:41 PM
Welcome home JT!

Greatest signing in Leafs history.

Can't wait to see him pull over the #91 jersey.  :D

I mean... probably in the post-cap NHL too, no?

It would probably depend on how you measure things. Chara worked out pretty well.

I agree. Chara. Letís hold off until we see a year or two go by. 

Please no injuries.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:46:52 PM

lol

Mother Jooris: Hello?
Josh: Guess what mom? *My* salary is going to be just the same as Mr. Tavares'!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 01:46:52 PM

lol

Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Downtown on July 01, 2018, 01:48:22 PM
WAHOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:48:28 PM
Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...

Yeah. These types of contracts are becoming more and more likely with big-name guys. This one kinda takes it to the max though.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 01:49:05 PM
Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...

Tax thing?

Or the man likes to spend Canada Day in a swimming pool filled with money.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 01:50:10 PM
I've brought this up before, but I think it's even more true now than ever before. Leafs should run 11 forwards/7 defencemen.

The 4th line can be two of Leivo/Grundstrom/Brown/Kapanen and then a rotating C group of Matthews/Tavares/Kadri/Nylander to get them extra minutes throughout the game.

Right. Why should the other team ever get to face a non-1st-line center?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:51:03 PM

lol

Apparently Gary Bettman was an Islanders fan so this contract is both middle fingers.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 01:51:43 PM
Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...

Yeah. These types of contracts are becoming more and more likely with big-name guys. This one kinda takes it to the max though.

I guess the Toronto real estate market is booming and they really want him to be able to afford a house right away.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 01, 2018, 01:51:56 PM

lol

Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...

Buy out proof.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 01:52:18 PM

lol

Apparently Gary Bettman was an Islanders fan so this contract is both middle fingers.

He doesn't care.  He's too busy posing for his bas-relief for the HOF.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: pmrules on July 01, 2018, 01:52:46 PM
I've brought this up before, but I think it's even more true now than ever before. Leafs should run 11 forwards/7 defencemen.

The 4th line can be two of Leivo/Grundstrom/Brown/Kapanen and then a rotating C group of Matthews/Tavares/Kadri/Nylander to get them extra minutes throughout the game.

Love this idea!!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 01:53:40 PM
That's a Pridham contract
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 01:54:07 PM

lol

Is this true?  That is a fascinating contract structure ...

Well, it's basically just getting as much of the value of the deal as soon as possible so as to invest it.

Just a little way to use the organization's financial muscle to make the deal as lucrative as possible.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 01:54:54 PM
How many sleeps until October 3? 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 01:56:35 PM

Seriously though how many other teams could have done this?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2018, 01:59:38 PM
Is there still enough cap space yet to buy the cleveland browns? Or more relevantly, Calvin Dehaan/ D addition?

Another thing I like about this contract (I can still scarcely believe that he signed for 11M on 7) - it might help with negotiations for Marner/Nylander/Matthews, no? In more subtle ways than one?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:00:17 PM
Another thing I like about this contract (I can still scarcely believe that he signed for 11M on 7) - it might help with negotiations for Marner/Nylander/Matthews, no? In more subtle ways than one?

Knowing Tavares left money on the table to sign here will definitely have a positive effect. It's like Stamkos and Hedman taking less in Tampa.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2018, 02:01:44 PM
OK guys, settle down.

They havenít signed a 4C thatís to our liking yet.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 02:02:44 PM
Absolutely Fantastic!! I told my 12 year old son that there hasnít  been a better time to be a Leafs fan in the past 50 years, and that was after they won the draft lottery and selected Auston Matthews. Then they get the the most sought after coach, find that allusive #1 goaltender and now sign the biggest free agent available in years. Probably the biggest in Leafs history. This team feels destined to make history !! Today is a special day for Leafs Nation. Feels damn good after decades of heartbreak, to finally have one of the best teams in the league, with so much talent and promise!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2018, 02:03:20 PM
OK guys, settle down.

They havenít signed a 4C thatís to our liking yet.
;D

If you buy into CTB's logic, we don't need one. And I buy in!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 02:03:32 PM
At this point though, Tavares can only talk to Matthews if he's going to say how absolutely horrible it is playing for the team that you grew up watching. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on July 01, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Btw. Thanks Lou! You pulled through for us when everyone said it wouldnít happen !!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:06:04 PM

Honestly, if the Tavares-team really didn't inform other teams that he wasn't signing with them I'd be pretty peeved if I was them. But I'm not and he signed here so that's hilarious.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 02:06:31 PM
OK guys, settle down.

They havenít signed a 4C thatís to our liking yet.

🙂 I was contemplating this joke but decided against it.  The right D is something to think about.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:09:17 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 02:10:26 PM
Absolutely Fantastic!! I told my 12 year old son that there hasnít  been a better time to be a Leafs fan in the past 50 years, and that was after they won the draft lottery and selected Auston Matthews. Then they get the the most sought after coach, find that allusive #1 goaltender and now sign the biggest free agent available in years. Probably the biggest in Leafs history. This team feels destined to make history !! Today is a special day for Leafs Nation. Feels damn good after decades of heartbreak, to finally have one of the best teams in the league, with so much talent and promise!!

I agree wholeheartedly.  Still, I think Tampa, with their D, retains an edge over us.  It is a shame about the way the playoffs are set up.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 02:11:01 PM
So something I've been thinking about for a while as this all happened, even as I was pretty sure he wasn't coming here, was that something that makes Toronto different from probably every other city is that when there's a young kid in the city who's clearly going to be a top flight NHLer it becomes sort of this weird secret that gets passed around. The minor hockey system being what it is you start hearing about these guys when they're 14 or 15, maybe younger, and they develop an almost mythic quality to them.

Really, in my lifetime, it's happened three times to a major extent. Lindros, Tavares and McDavid. To finally have one of those guys on the Leafs and in their prime is pretty surreal.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:11:07 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 02:11:50 PM
So I guess now the expectations to, you know, actually win a playoff round have ramped up a notch.  The pressure is on and no excuses from here on out.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 02:12:24 PM
Thrashing the Habs on opening night is gonna feel so good
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2018, 02:13:03 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.

Funner fact - I'm not wearing pants, and have no plans to for the rest of the day.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 02:13:16 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.

So that's why you deleted my bold, and as it turns out, prescient thread.  OK then.   ;)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:13:51 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.

So that's why you deleted my bold, and as it turns out, prescient thread.  OK then.   ;)

I was definitely taking this one :P
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 02:14:33 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.

So that's why you deleted my bold, and as it turns out, prescient thread.  OK then.   ;)

I was definitely taking this one :P

You deserve it man.  Start dreaming up your first GDT.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 02:15:47 PM
If true, we can finally say it wasn't 100% about money. He chose to come here to fulfill a dream
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 02:17:34 PM
Fun fact: I had this thread with this title on my browser ready to be posted since I woke up at like 9:30am.


So that's why you deleted my bold, and as it turns out, prescient thread.  OK then.   ;)

I was definitely taking this one :P

You deserve it man.  Start dreaming up your first GDT.

Winger - 1st Line Center - Winger
Winger - Another 1st Line Center - Winger
Winger - A pretty good second line center - Winger
Winger - Someone needed to avoid the need for an oxygen tank - Winger
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 02:20:39 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 02:22:47 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

I'm pretty sure the Oilers had like 7 at one point.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 02:24:52 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 02:25:03 PM
OK guys, settle down.

They havenít signed a 4C thatís to our liking yet.

Thread winner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 02:25:18 PM

My god. I forgot about 3-on-3.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 02:26:56 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.

Sundin and Lindros! I can keep going.

Actually, the 99-00 Leafs had Sundin, Clark and Berard!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2018, 02:28:10 PM
heh. Although I was never too pleased with Kadri's play on the 3-3. Replace with Kapanen.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 02:28:38 PM
From that MLHS article:

"Mike Babcock has used Tavares on the wing next to Sidney Crosby or Ryan Getzlaf for Team Canada in the past, and he also would split up or unite Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk as he saw fit in Detroit. In general, itís not uncommon with great center-center hockey duos, past and present, to have one ride shotgun with the other. What a Tavares-Matthews-Nylander/Marner shift would look like as far as the puck control sequences in the offensive zone boggles the mind, not to mention a potential Tavares-Matthews-Marner / Rielly-Nylander top power play unit."
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 02:32:22 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.

Sundin and Lindros! I can keep going.

Actually, the 99-00 Leafs had Sundin, Clark and Berard!

Clark and Ramage!

...but I think that's it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 01, 2018, 02:32:45 PM
OK guys, settle down.

They havenít signed a 4C thatís to our liking yet.

Poor Par Lindholm. Already forgotten.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 02:34:09 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.

Sundin and Lindros! I can keep going.

Actually, the 99-00 Leafs had Sundin, Clark and Berard!

Those examples were mostly past their prime by the time they were on the Leafs together. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frank E on July 01, 2018, 02:41:02 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.

Sundin and Lindros! I can keep going.

Actually, the 99-00 Leafs had Sundin, Clark and Berard!

Those examples were mostly past their prime by the time they were on the Leafs together.

So is Tavares.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Kaberle15 on July 01, 2018, 02:41:54 PM
OMFG

Yaaaaaaayyyyyyy and with a hometown discount
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 02:42:20 PM
Those examples were mostly past their prime by the time they were on the Leafs together.

Oh come on. You have to admit those were some pretty good pulls off the top of my head.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 02:43:36 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

I'm pretty sure the Oilers had like 7 at one point.
Post of the day [emoji23]
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 01, 2018, 02:43:46 PM
So two first overall picks in the lineup.  Has that ever happened before?

On the Leafs? Clark and Sundin, for one. Sundin and Nolan, for another.

Sundin and Lindros! I can keep going.

Actually, the 99-00 Leafs had Sundin, Clark and Berard!

Those examples were mostly past their prime by the time they were on the Leafs together.

So is Tavares.

Yeah, 27 is pretty much over the hill..
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 02:47:00 PM
Those examples were mostly past their prime by the time they were on the Leafs together.

Oh come on. You have to admit those were some pretty good pulls off the top of my head.

Oh yes I will give you that.  I didn't think of those at all, but Lindros in particular was a shadow of his former self. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 02:50:40 PM
Don't think Tavares has ever played with a talented winger as Marner. I think he could be looking at a career year in points.

The powerplay and late game line shuffling they can do is insane.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Arn on July 01, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
The Lou transfer may have been key here. No longer allowed to wear 91 in New York whole Dubas takes over the Leafs and relaxed those same said rules.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 01, 2018, 03:06:51 PM
So is the consensus that they'll pin the C on him? I heard a rumor that was part of the presentation to him and his agent.

If so, who get's the A's?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2018, 03:08:16 PM
Media reported this morning that the C was never part of conversation.
So is the consensus that they'll pin the C on him? I heard a rumor that was part of the presentation to him and his agent.

If so, who get's the A's?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on July 01, 2018, 03:08:18 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/VxqUvQW.jpg)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Wendel's Fist on July 01, 2018, 03:21:17 PM
Press conference at 4pm.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 03:29:53 PM

One of the interesting things I've heard kicking around is the idea that the Islanders bringing in Lamoriello and firing Snow actually hurt the Islanders here as Tavares didn't feel like he had a personal obligation to the new group.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 03:35:14 PM

One of the interesting things I've heard kicking around is the idea that the Islanders bringing in Lamoriello and firing Snow actually hurt the Islanders here as Tavares didn't feel like he had a personal obligation to the new group.

*cackles gleefully*
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 03:40:47 PM

One of the interesting things I've heard kicking around is the idea that the Islanders bringing in Lamoriello and firing Snow actually hurt the Islanders here as Tavares didn't feel like he had a personal obligation to the new group.

*cackles gleefully*

I'm doing my very best here because I feel for Islanders fans but...yeah.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 03:41:32 PM

Paging Bender: Bob doiní the Lordís work.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 03:42:40 PM
I'm doing my very best here because I feel for Islanders fans but...yeah.

Iím kind of enjoying all the jersey burning videos.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 03:44:55 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 03:45:49 PM
From: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-tavares-leaps-great-unknown-betting-maple-leafs/

The Toronto hockey fanfic segment is absolutely losing it after hearing this.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 03:47:32 PM

Guru, this you?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 03:48:27 PM
Invalid Tweet ID

2 WJC's, an Olympic Gold and a World Cup.

Seems to me like Tavares does ok in a team setting if he's got a Maple Leaf on his chest.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 01, 2018, 03:54:29 PM

Guru, this you?

I beat the line up and got mine the other day.    ;D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 04:07:43 PM

I liked the suggestion that Morgan Rielly should be the Captain.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:08:55 PM

I liked the suggestion that Morgan Rielly should be the Captain.

That's what I said before, but now? I go Tavares with the C, Rielly with the A, Matthews and Marleau rotating the other A before Matthews takes it over after Marleau retires.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:11:07 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/watch-live-maple-leafs-introduce-john-tavares/

Starting now.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2018, 04:13:33 PM
He really looks like a guy That's had a tough week. 
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/watch-live-maple-leafs-introduce-john-tavares/

Starting now.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 04:16:06 PM

In terms of throwing shade, Tavares just mentioned how Steven Stamkos was in a "different situation" than he was and how that maybe is why they came to different conclusions.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 04:16:23 PM
Tavares wasn't offered the C. Dreger 100% wrong again
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:17:22 PM
Tavares says the C was never brought up in negotiations.

Dubas says they won't rush the captaincy decision. My interpretation is that it will likely happen during or after training camp at the earliest.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2018, 04:18:23 PM
Dubas looks like he just wants to bust out a massive grin, decent first few weeks on the job!!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:18:52 PM

Again... if the other teams weren't told about this lol
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: lc9 on July 01, 2018, 04:19:11 PM
Komarov gets 4 years and 12 mil from the isles.  Good trade for the leafs.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
Wow, what a day for the LeafsNation!

It's Canada Day, John Tavares day, it's been simply...unbe-leaf-able!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: lc9 on July 01, 2018, 04:23:08 PM
Gone are: Komarov, JVR, Bozak and Polak.

In: Tavares and youth.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: lc9 on July 01, 2018, 04:23:58 PM
Tavares basically indicates that the decision came down to the isles and leafs, that was as of a couple days ago.

Looks like many people over estimated the sharks positon.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:26:20 PM
Gone are: Komarov, JVR, Bozak and Polak.

Those 4 will have a combined cap-hit of $16.3mil next season.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 04:27:17 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on July 01, 2018, 04:28:32 PM

I liked the suggestion that Morgan Rielly should be the Captain.
Captain Morgan or Ron Bacardi
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: AlmosGirl on July 01, 2018, 04:29:15 PM
Canít believe this is happening!!!! So excited. Canít wait for next season. My little guy is an OV fan but had to wear #91 last season. Started liking Tavares cause same number. Now he wants to stay using #91!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:29:38 PM
Tavares basically indicates that the decision came down to the isles and leafs, that was as of a couple days ago.

Looks like many people over estimated the sharks positon.

He talked about how the Leafs window to win should be open for all 7 years of the contract, not just the first few. I'm taking that as a Sharks dig.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2018, 04:29:57 PM
I thought when he said he wanted to compete for his whole contract that was a hint to when the Sharks exited the discussion.
Tavares basically indicates that the decision came down to the isles and leafs, that was as of a couple days ago.

Looks like many people over estimated the sharks positon.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 04:41:34 PM
Who'd have imagined...

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 04:41:46 PM

Huh. Surprising swap at left-wing from Babcock.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2018, 04:56:54 PM
Props to Dubas, Tavares in Fíingí Leafs sheets? Are you kidding me? Heís all in and he wants it here. Wow, this has warm and fuzzies all over it. TMLFANS congrats, great day in TML land. The Shannaplan!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on July 01, 2018, 05:11:03 PM
We rule man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yes we do!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: nutman on July 01, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
Oh my!!!.  Today is a very good day... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 01, 2018, 05:16:11 PM
Marner just won the jackpot.

So, we're expecting:
Matthew: 55g, 50a, 105 pts
Nylander: 35g, 60a, 95 pts
Tavares: 40g, 60a, 100 pts
Marner: 25g, 115a, 135 pts.

Or something like that, right?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 05:23:44 PM
Marner just won the jackpot.

So, we're expecting:
Matthew: 55g, 50a, 105 pts
Nylander: 35g, 60a, 95 pts
Tavares: 40g, 60a, 100 pts
Marner: 25g, 115a, 135 pts.

Or something like that, right?

Heh.  I wouldn't be shocked if they got 350 points between them, though.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 05:39:01 PM
Quote
Tavares says he spent a lot of time speaking with Patrick Marleau who understood what it was like to leave a place heíd been in for so long.

Also noted Matthews and Marner reached out to encourage him to join #Leafs.


Old man Marleau doing God's work
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 01, 2018, 05:42:00 PM
Quote
Tavares says he spent a lot of time speaking with Patrick Marleau who understood what it was like to leave a place heíd been in for so long.

Also noted Matthews and Marner reached out to encourage him to join #Leafs.


Old man Marleau doing God's work

I LOVE Marleau. Hes such a great pickup, just quietly keeps on being awesome.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 01, 2018, 05:55:17 PM
Marner just won the jackpot.

So, we're expecting:
Matthew: 55g, 50a, 105 pts
Nylander: 35g, 60a, 95 pts
Tavares: 40g, 60a, 100 pts
Marner: 25g, 115a, 135 pts.

Or something like that, right?

Better get those extensions done this summer then...
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 06:02:37 PM

I liked the suggestion that Morgan Rielly should be the Captain.

To be honest thatís what I thought would happen. But I donít see how you canít make Tavares the captain. At the end of the day I personally donít really care who is the captain.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 06:07:19 PM

I liked the suggestion that Morgan Rielly should be the Captain.

To be honest thatís what I thought would happen. But I donít see how you canít make Tavares the captain. At the end of the day I personally donít really care who is the captain.
It'll be Matthews
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:10:24 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 06:13:22 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.

Why in the world would he be gone?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 01, 2018, 06:15:16 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.

Lol what?

Theyll likely make Tavares captain after training camp and before first regular season game is my guess. Marleau Matthews and Rielly with an A.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:16:28 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.

Why in the world would he be gone?
  Offer sheets for the max amount,one for Auston and one for Mitch.  They can probably only match one.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 06:17:47 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.

Why in the world would he be gone?
  Offer sheets for the max amount,one for Auston and one for Mitch.  They can probably only match one.
So you're expecting one team to offer sheet both players or separate teams to offer sheet each player? The league that doesn't offer sheet players like ever? Okay
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.
Also the captaincy would be announced at the same time as his 8 year extension
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 06:20:49 PM
  Offer sheets for the max amount,one for Auston and one for Mitch.  They can probably only match one.

Well, first of all, in that scenario the one you match is Matthews without even a tiny little bit of hesitation. But even then that's insane. No team is going to cripple themselves by paying 16 million a year for Mitch Marner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Wendel's Fist on July 01, 2018, 06:21:38 PM
Watching that press conference, it's amazing how many 'fingerprints' are involved with something like this happening. From Hunter picking Marner, to all the wrong decisions that helped us lose enough to get Matthews, to the Calder Cup win that Dubas had a huge hand in, to Shanahan bringing in Babcock, to Lamoriello bringing in Marleau. All of those factored into Tavares' decision.

Glad it worked it out but man, that's a lot of happenstance.


Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: puckinthehead on July 01, 2018, 06:24:03 PM
Marner just won the jackpot.

So, we're expecting:
Matthew: 55g, 50a, 105 pts
Nylander: 35g, 60a, 95 pts
Tavares: 40g, 60a, 100 pts
Marner: 25g, 115a, 135 pts.

Or something like that, right?


115a  ;D ;D  I almost feel sorry for the other team's D with those two on the ice.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:29:14 PM
  I would not name Mathews captain,he might be gone next year.

Why in the world would he be gone?
  Offer sheets for the max amount,one for Auston and one for Mitch.  They can probably only match one.
So you're expecting one team to offer sheet both players or separate teams to offer sheet each player? The league that doesn't offer sheet players like ever? Okay

Yep, just because it was rare in the past,doesn,t mean it won't happen.There,s lots of pressure on Gm,s too improve there teams. I can see Arizona doing it,if for no other reason than to get fans to fill their seats. And make a huge impact in the southern states.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:32:25 PM
  Offer sheets for the max amount,one for Auston and one for Mitch.  They can probably only match one.

Well, first of all, in that scenario the one you match is Matthews without even a tiny little bit of hesitation. But even then that's insane. No team is going to cripple themselves by paying 16 million a year for Mitch Marner.

That might be true for Marner,however I just read a thread that those 3 guys could get 350 points next year.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 01, 2018, 06:41:11 PM
if someone offer-sheets marner for the max, you take the 4 first round picks for him, sign the best UFA D for his money and smile to the bank.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 06:42:45 PM
Yep, just because it was rare in the past,doesn,t mean it won't happen.There,s lots of pressure on Gm,s too improve there teams. I can see Arizona doing it,if for no other reason than to get fans to fill their seats. And make a huge impact in the southern states.

This sort of ignores the reason why offer sheets are so incredibly rare. Teams know that they'd have to make the offer so high, and the compensation so steep, that it would probably be a net negative for them. They're not good hockey decisions by and large unless you're dealing with a team that's pressed right up against the cap which the Leafs won't be.

It's a pointless exercise. Either a player is good enough that matching the offer is worthwhile, in which case their team matches it, or he's not worth the contract he's offered in which case it doesn't help the team offering it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 06:45:10 PM
if someone offer-sheets marner for the max, you take the 4 first round picks for him, sign the best UFA D for his money and smile to the bank.

Exactly. You know how usually you hate to see your former players playing for a rival? I would be thrilled if the Habs or Sens offered Marner a max deal.

But they won't and one reason for that is it's not like players have to sign offer sheets. I'm guessing not too many guys would want to play for the sorts of teams that make decisions that bad.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:46:32 PM
if someone offer-sheets marner for the max, you take the 4 first round picks for him, sign the best UFA D for his money and smile to the bank.

Good point,we still win.  Isn't a max contract worth 5 1sts ?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 06:52:07 PM
Yep, just because it was rare in the past,doesn,t mean it won't happen.There,s lots of pressure on Gm,s too improve there teams. I can see Arizona doing it,if for no other reason than to get fans to fill their seats. And make a huge impact in the southern states.

This sort of ignores the reason why offer sheets are so incredibly rare. Teams know that they'd have to make the offer so high, and the compensation so steep, that it would probably be a net negative for them. They're not good hockey decisions by and large unless you're dealing with a team that's pressed right up against the cap which the Leafs won't be.

It's a pointless exercise. Either a player is good enough that matching the offer is worthwhile, in which case their team matches it, or he's not worth the contract he's offered in which case it doesn't help the team offering it.
  Your right Nik, however Mathews might balk at Babcock,s coaching style and may not be easy to sign.
That was another reason,you might not want to give Auston the captaincy. I,m also wondering if Tavaras isn,t the back up plan,just in case.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
  Your right Nik, however Mathews might balk at Babcock,s coaching style and may not be easy to sign.

There's a veritable whole wide world of things that might happen. I think you need to start dwelling in the realm of probability rather than possibility before it influences your decision making though.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 01, 2018, 06:58:53 PM
Good lord can we not just enjoy this moment without this Matthews is leaving crap?

Official reports say the dude called Tavares and encouraged him to come to Toronto. That should be the end of the Matthews disgruntled discussion.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on July 01, 2018, 07:04:19 PM
C'mon we all know Matthews just helped to recruit his replacement.
Good lord can we not just enjoy this moment without this Matthews is leaving crap?

Official reports say the dude called Tavares and encouraged him to come to Toronto. That should be the end of the Matthews disgruntled discussion.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 07:12:59 PM

I swear, I want to feel bad for Islanders fans or at least be gracious but some of the things I'm reading of why exactly they feel hard done by here are so stupid.

The Islanders got to where they are right now because they were badly run. Not getting anything for Tavares is a symptom of that.

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 07:20:37 PM

I swear, I want to feel bad for Islanders fans or at least be gracious but some of the things I'm reading of why exactly they feel hard done by here are so stupid.

The Islanders got to where they are right now because they were badly run. Not getting anything for Tavares is a symptom of that.



It's nuts.

"omg John said he would never consider playing somewhere else he lied to us!!!1!"
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 07:39:19 PM
  Your right Nik, however Mathews might balk at Babcock,s coaching style and may not be easy to sign.

There's a veritable whole wide world of things that might happen. I think you need to start dwelling in the realm of probability rather than possibility before it influences your decision making though.
I originally made the comment that I would not make Auston the captain right now.I was drawn into the reasons why,which was not my original intent I,m not trying to put a negative to the Tavaras signing.
This our year to win the cup.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 07:46:38 PM
C'mon we all know Matthews just helped to recruit his replacement.
Good lord can we not just enjoy this moment without this Matthews is leaving crap?

Official reports say the dude called Tavares and encouraged him to come to Toronto. That should be the end of the Matthews disgruntled discussion.



Talk about pessimism. ::)  Hey, all's right with  the Leafs & Auston, & John, &....

... enjoy & smile.~
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: KGB on July 01, 2018, 07:47:43 PM
Prior to today, the biggest impact free agent signing by the Leafs had to be Cujo, 20 years ago this month.  This seems bigger.  For years we've posited that this player or that would love to play in Toronto and might even take a hometown discount.  It's finally happened, and in a big, big way.  You can knock me down with a feather.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 07:49:34 PM
I originally made the comment that I would not make Auston the captain right now.

Well, sort of. You said in your comment it would be "because he might be gone in a year" which, you know, isn't going to happen. Beyond that I think a lot of people are hesitant to make him captain right now for some legitimate reasons, namely he just might not be ready, but as Zee has said, even if the organization did want to make him the captain they wouldn't do it without a long term commitment agreed to beforehand.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 07:49:52 PM
Did Steve Simmons credit Mark Hunter for this signing?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 01, 2018, 07:51:32 PM
Yep, just because it was rare in the past,doesn,t mean it won't happen.There,s lots of pressure on Gm,s too improve there teams. I can see Arizona doing it,if for no other reason than to get fans to fill their seats. And make a huge impact in the southern states.

This sort of ignores the reason why offer sheets are so incredibly rare. Teams know that they'd have to make the offer so high, and the compensation so steep, that it would probably be a net negative for them. They're not good hockey decisions by and large unless you're dealing with a team that's pressed right up against the cap which the Leafs won't be.

It's a pointless exercise. Either a player is good enough that matching the offer is worthwhile, in which case their team matches it, or he's not worth the contract he's offered in which case it doesn't help the team offering it.
What would the compensation be if someone offer sheeted Marner? 5 first round picks?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 07:55:42 PM
What would the compensation be if someone offer sheeted Marner? 5 first round picks?

The biggest RFA compensation is 4 first rounders:

https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator (https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator)

And like I said, you'd match any Matthews offer sheet and Marner really doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd sign an offer sheet and bail on his hometown team and playing on Tavares' wing.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 07:57:24 PM
I originally made the comment that I would not make Auston the captain right now.

Well, sort of. You said in your comment it would be "because he might be gone in a year" which, you know, isn't going to happen. Beyond that I think a lot of people are hesitant to make him captain right now for some legitimate reasons, namely he just might not be ready, but as Zee has said, even if the organization did want to make him the captain they wouldn't do it without a long term commitment agreed to beforehand.
[/quote

  Agreed on that.If he signs long term then he deserves the captaincy. I,d even donate $5 bucks to his contract.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 08:00:08 PM
It just feels so good...

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 01, 2018, 08:07:43 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 08:11:51 PM
Leafs donít name a captain this season. We win the Cup. Who will be pushed to pick it up first?

Gotta be the Patty Man.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 08:14:46 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/01/john-tavares-introductory-press-conference-i-really-believed-that-there-was-a-big-window-here-to-win-and-be-a-part-of-something-special/

It bugs me a bit that they transcribed Tavaresí fiancťeís name wrong, but now I know how to pronounce it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 08:25:11 PM
Leafs donít name a captain this season. We win the Cup. Who will be pushed to pick it up first?

Gotta be the Patty Man.

Personally, in that scenario, I'd go with longest serving Leaf.

Who, interestingly, is now Kadri.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 08:26:50 PM
It bugs me a bit that they transcribed Tavaresí fiancťeís name wrong, but now I know how to pronounce it.

Good gravy, when you said that I assumed it would just be the old Irish spelling but they really went for the full Scrabble score with that one.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Wendel's Fist on July 01, 2018, 08:31:53 PM
Leafs donít name a captain this season. We win the Cup. Who will be pushed to pick it up first?

Gotta be the Patty Man.

Brian Papineau, with a full water bottle for Bettman.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 08:35:02 PM
Leafs donít name a captain this season. We win the Cup. Who will be pushed to pick it up first?

Gotta be the Patty Man.

Brian Papineau, with a full water bottle for Bettman.

Oh man the OG Papi would be inspired.

If it was up to Babcock itíd probably be going to Roman Polak.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Captain Canuck on July 01, 2018, 08:39:01 PM
Awesome news, can't recall any other Leafs free agent signing that came close to generating this much excitement!

I saw a few people walking around Maple Leaf Square with Tavares Leafs jerseys already. BTW, the ACC looks bizarre with "Scotiabank Arena" up on the side of the building now.

Not too worried about the "C", if anything don't name one...seemed to work fine last year without one.

Unless the Buds hope to outscore the entire league (and they just well might with this lineup) there is still a pressing need on the blueline, but that can wait for another day.

GO LEAFS GO!!!  8)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Kaberle15 on July 01, 2018, 08:51:05 PM
And just when I thought that this day couldn't be any better, my Lakers signed the King.

Whatta day
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 01, 2018, 09:26:12 PM
We actually signed Tavares.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 01, 2018, 09:40:46 PM
Earlier in the year I didnít see a fit with us, but as the Islander stock started to sink and the Leafs put up another year of progress, I kind of started to hope even though I knew hockey players were dumb and safe. Little did I know that Tavares was a super big nerd and that heíd be won over by FACTS. I was dancing the whole day.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 09:53:09 PM
Earlier in the year I didnít see a fit with us, but as the Islander stock started to sink and the Leafs put up another year of progress, I kind of started to hope even though I knew hockey players were dumb and safe. Little did I know that Tavares was a super big nerd and that heíd be won over by FACTS. I was dancing the whole day.

You know, I think for sometime now I've been expecting someone, a legit star, to really go into free agency and use it to get what they wanted. I probably assumed that meant money too heavily but I think the league was overdue for a star to really want to reap the justly deserved rewards of free agency.

Cuz let's not mince words, even though he may have turned down more money(and who knows how San Jose's offer was structured) Tavares does now have the 2nd highest cap hit in the league. And good for him, he deserves it. I'm happy to see players use their leverage against a really unfair system.

But man, it just feels like such a win. To improve your team this much with no real cost and at an eminently reasonable price tag. I'm pretty freaking happy about it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 01, 2018, 10:20:53 PM
On the Island, not so much in the way of happiness:

It came like the slow ripping of a Band-Aid, and now the wound will bleed out all over Islanders fans for years to come.

Yeesh, that's a lede?

Uh, yeah ... from the NY Post.  ::) ::)

But actually, the reactions they quote run the gamut: bitter betrayal, trash the jersey, it's on management (that would be my take), he deserves to chase his dream, Barzal is already better than him  ::) ::) ::), wow look at all the cap space, Lou and Trotz will right the ship.

I absolutely would be bitter if I were an Isles fan.  Can you imagine how we'll feel when Matthews walks someday so he can pursue his boyhood dream of lifting the Coyotes* to greatness?



* Problem is, the Coyotes will be defunct by that time
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 11:21:57 PM
What would the compensation be if someone offer sheeted Marner? 5 first round picks?

The biggest RFA compensation is 4 first rounders:

https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator (https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator)

And like I said, you'd match any Matthews offer sheet and Marner really doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who'd sign an offer sheet and bail on his hometown team and playing on Tavares' wing.

I think Down Goes Brown had an article that said the problem with the RFA system is that the compensation isn't higher.  The reasoning behind this was that it's a no-brainer to just match the offer.  If the compensation was higher, then the GM may actually have to think about whether or not they wanted to match it and it may lead to more RFA offer sheets. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 01, 2018, 11:28:24 PM
I think Down Goes Brown had an article that said the problem with the RFA system is that the compensation isn't higher.  The reasoning behind this was that it's a no-brainer to just match the offer.  If the compensation was higher, then the GM may actually have to think about whether or not they wanted to match it and it may lead to more RFA offer sheets.

Well, the "problem" with the RFA system is that it's a joke that's meant to give the impression of some sort of player freedom but without any actual interest in it. If the league really cared about it as a means to facilitate player movement it'd be the easiest thing in the world to address. It sucks, but it sucks by design.

I mean, if you make compensation that much higher why even have an RFA system?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 01, 2018, 11:40:07 PM
Well, the "problem" with the RFA system is that it's a joke that's meant to give the impression of some sort of player freedom but without any actual interest in it. If the league really cared about it as a means to facilitate player movement it'd be the easiest thing in the world to address. It sucks, but it sucks by design.

What would you do to change it, just make it a UFA system at a lower age? 

I mean, if you make compensation that much higher why even have an RFA system?

Well I think you still want to give the team that has the player an option.  So not straight free agency.  Some sort of right to match has to be in there I think.  Maybe you go the other way and just say that is the only option you have and there is no compensation at all.  It is a joke of a system because virtually nobody uses it as a way to improve their team, so there is obviously something broken with it.  With a cap, and with the trade route less of an opportunity to improve your team, the league would be better off to investigate a way to improve this part of the system.   
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: jdh1 on July 01, 2018, 11:40:49 PM
 I can,t help but think that this is a great signing.To get a heart and soul player,still in his prime and from Toronto.  This is huge.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 12:02:19 AM
Well I think you still want to give the team that has the player an option.  So not straight free agency.  Some sort of right to match has to be in there I think.  Maybe you go the other way and just say that is the only option you have and there is no compensation at all.  It is a joke of a system because virtually nobody uses it as a way to improve their team, so there is obviously something broken with it.  With a cap, and with the trade route less of an opportunity to improve your team, the league would be better off to investigate a way to improve this part of the system.

Again though, saying that the system is "broken" is implying that it's not doing what it's supposed to do. But it is doing that. It's giving the illusion that young players have some measure of freedom while still giving teams ultimate control. That is by design.

So long as there's a hard cap and escrow payments why should we care how the money gets distributed? All you do by artificially limiting the supply of free agents in that scenario is divert money away from very good young players to mediocre older players.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 02, 2018, 12:33:55 AM
Earlier in the year I didnít see a fit with us, but as the Islander stock started to sink and the Leafs put up another year of progress, I kind of started to hope even though I knew hockey players were dumb and safe. Little did I know that Tavares was a super big nerd and that heíd be won over by FACTS. I was dancing the whole day.

I worried, after the playoffs, that the Leafs might not appear to have taken much of a step forward -- well, they didn't -- so thought the shine on the franchise as an ascendant  contender might've come off a bit... Coupled with the Islanders doing a lot of things that signal a turnaround, I thought that was enough to get that dumb and safe tendency to kick in and lead Tavares back to the Island. I also thought, if he did leave, there were teams able and willing to pay a lot more, that offered equally good chances to win.

So, I'm pleasantly surprised he both was smart enough to make the same sort of assessment the Leafs management has made -- or at least that's what Dubas suggested -- and, I dunno, sentimental enough that he used his position to pursue a childhood dream.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 02, 2018, 03:10:56 AM
On the Island, not so much in the way of happiness:


As a long-time Islanders fan (of Mike Bossy & John Tavsres), I can empathize with some of the anger shown by their fans, etc.  Some of the vitreolic reactions are understandable.   However, they should also try to be understanding in turn.  Tavares didn't owe managenent anything, and furthermore, Tavares played most of his career with a team that was in shambles in many a categoty.

Tavares chose a new direction (in signing with the Leafs).

In the same way that the Islanders --  -- the organization,  the team, and their fans -- will embark in a direction that will bring some glory again to a once proud franchise.

Best of luck to them.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Arn on July 02, 2018, 05:48:23 AM
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Tavares-Marner
Johnsson-Kadri-Brown/Kapanen


I just wanted to post this again.

For the purposes of the rest of this post I'm adding a nominal 4th line:

Brown/Kapanen - Lindholm - Leivo

I was just thinking, my association with the Leafs started around 2001 really with that Eastern finals loss to Carolina (I was in the city visiting and got caught up in the buzz without really having been a hockey fan at all before that) but I really only properly started to watch properly over the next couple of seasons.

I would say this is, potentially, the greatest forward group the Leafs have had in my time.

You think back to the end of the non-cap days and you had (and I can't remember the exact lines and am going mostly off memory but this is just to get the gist)

Roberts - Sundin - Nolan
Tucker - Nieuwendyk - Mogilny
Ponikarovsky - Antropov - Renberg
Reichel - Stajan - Domi

I mean that's probably an even enough balance on the top 2 but falls off massively to the 3rd and 4th lines.

Where they did probably exceed this team was on the D, with Leetch for the run in along with Kaberle and McCabe as the top 3 probably being better than Rielly, Gardiner, whoever

And of course Belfour was better than Andersen.

But it's a massively exciting time
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on July 02, 2018, 05:52:40 AM
Surreal! You couldn't wipe the grin off my face all day, yesterday.... Wow!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 02, 2018, 07:20:17 AM
I remember making a fairly
Impassioned case for going after Tavares Iím here about six months ago or so.

I remember going back and forth with a bunch of you and some of us getting excited as we crunched the numbers and realized that this was a potential reality.

Now that itís happened Iím still in disbelief, I cannot wait to watch them play.

I read through this entire thread and really got a kick out of all of your excitement, we are going to do the thing folks, letís go!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frank E on July 02, 2018, 09:11:03 AM

One of the interesting things I've heard kicking around is the idea that the Islanders bringing in Lamoriello and firing Snow actually hurt the Islanders here as Tavares didn't feel like he had a personal obligation to the new group.

*cackles gleefully*

I think I floated this a week ago, but I think that NYI knew that Tavares was a long shot at best, and they needed to bring someone in so that they didn't look like the boyfriend whose girlfriend just left him because he's a loser. 

I think Lou may have thought that he had a shot, a small shot, and he tried...but I don't believe for a second that Lou was brought in to save Tavares as his primary mandate.  I think they know they've got a problem, and Lou is there to do what he did in Toronto, which is get the team on the right track.

I also think Tavares went through the motions of having the Islanders in the mix, to placate the fan base somewhat, and not publicly kick sand in their face on his way out...but he had no intentions of signing there.

After hearing what Tavares has said, I think it lends itself somewhat to this theory.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 02, 2018, 09:41:09 AM
On the Island, not so much in the way of happiness:

It came like the slow ripping of a Band-Aid, and now the wound will bleed out all over Islanders fans for years to come.

Yeesh, that's a lede?

Uh, yeah ... from the NY Post.  ::) ::)

But actually, the reactions they quote run the gamut: bitter betrayal, trash the jersey, it's on management (that would be my take), he deserves to chase his dream, Barzal is already better than him  ::) ::) ::), wow look at all the cap space, Lou and Trotz will right the ship.

I absolutely would be bitter if I were an Isles fan.  Can you imagine how we'll feel when Matthews walks someday so he can pursue his boyhood dream of lifting the Coyotes* to greatness?



* Problem is, the Coyotes will be defunct by that time

I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 10:10:21 AM
Tavares, while deservedly pricey, puts a nice ceiling on the upcoming contract for Matthews (and thus Marner and Nylander), with 30-goal Kadri* pulling things down from the other end. As Dubas mentioned, this also lowers prices on UFAs looking to hitch their wagons to the front runner.

* granted Kadri potted 30 only after signing the 4.5M deal.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 10:21:17 AM

Weíve technically lost GAR this offseason so far (without counting Polak).
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2018, 10:24:16 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 10:26:05 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 10:30:25 AM
(https://i.redd.it/wjldi09fxe711.jpg)

Letís note the other jerseys that flank our latest acquisitionís. Marleau over Kadri is a bit weird.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2018, 10:38:22 AM
Babcock made a comment about how the powerplay will need to adjust with the loss of JVR and Bozak, and he mentioned how in talking to Tavares John said his spot on the PP was the same as JVR's. From what I've seen Tavares largely played in Marner's spot but he definitely has the strength to play the net-front presence as well.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 02, 2018, 10:40:07 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.

I said this a few days ago and I'm glad you agree.  Some might think it's not a factor, or at least a minor one, but as I understand it his fiancť is Canadian ... and if, as I imagine, she's an intelligent individual, then it would make a nontrivial difference.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 02, 2018, 10:40:54 AM
Babcock made a comment about how the powerplay will need to adjust with the loss of JVR and Bozak, and he mentioned how in talking to Tavares John said his spot on the PP was the same as JVR's. From what I've seen Tavares largely played in Marner's spot but he definitely has the strength to play the net-front presence as well.

I was thinking about that too. I wonder if Marleau gets some time in the crease as well on the PP - he's actually a pretty big body, decent hands of course. That said, he'd have to take some punishment, and as an older player, that may be a problem.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2018, 10:44:10 AM
I was thinking about that too. I wonder if Marleau gets some time in the crease as well on the PP - he's actually a pretty big body, decent hands of course. That said, he'd have to take some punishment, and as an older player, that may be a problem.

With the way the league is changing though the net front guy really doesn't take as much punishment as he would have 5-10-15 years ago. I mean when was the last time you remember seeing JVR getting pummeled there?

I think the big question for the PP will be does Babcock spread out the two units again or load up on one?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 02, 2018, 10:54:08 AM
I also wonder if Babs plays him on the PK. When Doug Weight took over the Islanders coaching position the one big change he made was using Tavares on the kill and I think that John really appreciated being put in that role.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 02, 2018, 10:59:58 AM
I also wonder if Babs plays him on the PK. When Doug Weight took over the Islanders coaching position the one big change he made was using Tavares on the kill and I think that John really appreciated being put in that role.

It's a good thought. Im guessing, barring injuries, the biggest challenge will be getting all this forward talent enough icetime. Matthews simply has to get at least 2 minutes added to his average TOI, Kadri is too good to just have 3rd line minutes consistently... if one of your stars in an effective Pker, I say go for it. Tavares and kapanen could be a frightening PK unit for the opposition.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Deebo on July 02, 2018, 11:04:57 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

There are people like this in pretty much every fanbase, remember the abuse Gardiner took after game 7?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 02, 2018, 11:09:27 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

There are people like this in pretty much every fanbase, remember the abuse Gardiner took after game 7?

There were a few, but they were the same people that never liked Gardiner beforehand. I think a surprising number of fans were far more conciliatory that I expected, and saw it as a one game nightmare hiccup. Personally, I saw the advantage post in that perhaps a great time to negotiate a team-friendly extension... but no dice it seems.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 02, 2018, 11:11:37 AM
I also wonder if Babs plays him on the PK. When Doug Weight took over the Islanders coaching position the one big change he made was using Tavares on the kill and I think that John really appreciated being put in that role.

Matthews and Tavares on the second half of the PK. I approve of this.  ;)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on July 02, 2018, 11:14:14 AM
I also wonder if Babs plays him on the PK. When Doug Weight took over the Islanders coaching position the one big change he made was using Tavares on the kill and I think that John really appreciated being put in that role.

It's a good thought. Im guessing, barring injuries, the biggest challenge will be getting all this forward talent enough icetime. Matthews simply has to get at least 2 minutes added to his average TOI, Kadri is too good to just have 3rd line minutes consistently... if one of your stars in an effective Pker, I say go for it. Tavares and kapanen could be a frightening PK unit for the opposition.

All of Tavares, Matthews, Kadri, Marner would be effective penalty killers.

(Guys who previously haven't really been used in that role)
 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 11:21:32 AM
I was thinking about that too. I wonder if Marleau gets some time in the crease as well on the PP - he's actually a pretty big body, decent hands of course. That said, he'd have to take some punishment, and as an older player, that may be a problem.

With the way the league is changing though the net front guy really doesn't take as much punishment as he would have 5-10-15 years ago. I mean when was the last time you remember seeing JVR getting pummeled there?

I think the big question for the PP will be does Babcock spread out the two units again or load up on one?

I see it currently like this:
PP1:
Tavares
Kapanen-Kadri-Marner
Rielly

PP2:
Leivo/Grundstrom
Matthews-Johnsson-Nylander
Gardiner

PK1:
Tavares-Hyman
Hainsey-Zaitsev

PK2:
Brown-Kapanen
Dermott-Rielly/Marincin

PK3:
Lindholm-Marleau

Tavares is not a traditional net front (screen and tip point shots). Heís more back door seam pass with the open stick. JvR player both screen and back door option and had no trouble with Marner attacking off the halfwall. A lefty umbrella D is mandatory if youíre running things through Marner. If Kapanen is getting the shaft playing 4th line RW again, they can afford to load him onto both special teams.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 11:21:53 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.

Way to bring political propaganda into a discussion about hockey teams.

Because rude assholes just didnt exist, the world was a magical place of unicorns and rainbows, chocolate cakes and high fives until "Hitler" ruined everything - including hockey fans.

So tired of you types - I like sports and come here to get away from this shit but no - youve gotta bring it here to and whats worse, you havnt the slightest idea what you're talking about. Zero.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 11:32:33 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

There are people like this in pretty much every fanbase, remember the abuse Gardiner took after game 7?

There were a few, but they were the same people that never liked Gardiner beforehand. I think a surprising number of fans were far more conciliatory that I expected, and saw it as a one game nightmare hiccup. Personally, I saw the advantage post in that perhaps a great time to negotiate a team-friendly extension... but no dice it seems.

Those people exist everywhere and arent exclusive to any specific team or area. I would bet  the majority of troll posters are teenagers or unhinged basement-living at moms house losers anyway. Who cares what someone says if they get that upset about millionaires playing a game.

I was upset too, but I didnt and dont hate Gardiner for it lol its not like I could do better. Nobody likes to lose, oh well.

If somebody gets upset enough to act that way and burn jerseys (or a city, looking at you Vancouver) they need their priorities re-arranged in a major way.

I understand being disappointed but come on guys, this isnt war - he didnt commit treason. This is a business and thats how it works.

Its not like he signed a 15 year contract then 2 years in decided hes not going to play unless they trade him. That would piss me off.

He signed a contract, he finished it. The end.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 02, 2018, 11:43:50 AM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.
It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.

And, of course, white enclaves in NYC's outer boroughs and burbs are pretty much ground zero for Trumpism.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 11:46:17 AM
Way to bring political propaganda into a discussion about hockey teams.

Because rude assholes just didnt exist, the world was a magical place of unicorns and rainbows, chocolate cakes and high fives until "Hitler" ruined everything - including hockey fans.

So tired of you types - I like sports and come here to get away from this shit but no - youve gotta bring it here to and whats worse, you havnt the slightest idea what you're talking about. Zero.

I welcome all opinions, even in sports fora, as I believe people holistically integrate all their belief systems and experiences into whatever they participate in. To try to partition everything into compartments just to hide from the opinions that you donít agree with only leads to further division and basically no new learning.

It sounds like you know about this stuff more than I do, so further dialogue is welcome. Enlighten and correct my assumptions as you see fit.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 11:48:36 AM
He signed a contract, he finished it. The end.

Yeah this is all it should be seen as. But fans are going to be emotionally invested and react accordingly.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 11:50:25 AM
He signed a contract, he finished it. The end.

Yeah this is all it should be seen as. But fans are going to be emotionally invested and react accordingly.

Fine, then react like an adult and not a 4 year old having meth withdrawals.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 11:54:26 AM
He signed a contract, he finished it. The end.

Yeah this is all it should be seen as. But fans are going to be emotionally invested and react accordingly.

Nah, I don't think we can just blame this on a natural result of fandom. I've seen guys leave the Raptors or Jays or Leafs and while I've been frustrated I haven't gone after them personally. Were there some fans who reacted like complete and total herbs to someone like Sundin? Sure, but they were jerks and deserved to be called out as such. It's the result of an insufficiency of reasonableness, not an excess of fandom.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 02, 2018, 12:02:28 PM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.

Way to bring political propaganda into a discussion about hockey teams.

Because rude assholes just didnt exist, the world was a magical place of unicorns and rainbows, chocolate cakes and high fives until "Hitler" ruined everything - including hockey fans.

So tired of you types - I like sports and come here to get away from this shit but no - youve gotta bring it here to and whats worse, you havnt the slightest idea what you're talking about. Zero.
For someone who didn't want to pull any further into a political debate this post sure sounds like you're baiting an argument.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 02, 2018, 12:16:47 PM
On the Island, not so much in the way of happiness:

It came like the slow ripping of a Band-Aid, and now the wound will bleed out all over Islanders fans for years to come.

Yeesh, that's a lede?

Uh, yeah ... from the NY Post.  ::) ::)

But actually, the reactions they quote run the gamut: bitter betrayal, trash the jersey, it's on management (that would be my take), he deserves to chase his dream, Barzal is already better than him  ::) ::) ::), wow look at all the cap space, Lou and Trotz will right the ship.

I absolutely would be bitter if I were an Isles fan.  Can you imagine how we'll feel when Matthews walks someday so he can pursue his boyhood dream of lifting the Coyotes* to greatness?



* Problem is, the Coyotes will be defunct by that time
I almost wanted to gloat to Islanders fans that I saw posting on Twitter in the days leading up to July 1. I saw them posting things like:

"Stupid Leafs fans don't understand that John is just using Toronto to drive up the price, there's no way he'll leave, Lou will make him an offer he can't refuse"

And on and on ...

I can't though, it's good fortune that Tavares chose the Leafs but I fear if we gloat too much karma will bite us in the ass and maybe Matthews leaves to Arizona when it's his turn. I hope not, but I'll just enjoy this signing and not say a peep to Isles fans. It's not their fault the management was a joke for so long.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 02, 2018, 12:29:25 PM
Why do people think Lou is a magician? I don't understand. If two companies came to me and one said you can work with the crusty 75y.o. who runs his teams like the military, is a bit out of touch with modernity, is kinda losing his marbles and may or may not be running a team in 3yrs and the other said they had a fresh exec rising through the ranks, who's won at every level and really wants you to be part of this move forward in hockey thinking I wouldn't at all hesitate with option #2.

Working under Lou does not sound like a lot of fun to me, from everything I've read/heard.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 12:30:52 PM
I can't though, it's good fortune that Tavares chose the Leafs but I fear if we gloat too much karma will bite us in the ass and maybe Matthews leaves to Arizona when it's his turn.

If Matthews decides that after 9 years here he's got a burning desire to play in Arizona than best of luck to him but I think it's important to not pretend that would be a mirror image of what happened here.

The Islanders, during most of Tavares' time there, were a mess of an organization. They lacked stable ownership and, really, a modern arena. They made some pretty terrible decisions on top of that like moving to Brooklyn, then deciding to unmove and split their time between Brooklyn and Nassau. To top all of that off it was their choice to sign Tavares to a well under-market 5 year extension.

So if Matthews gets offered, essentially, the same thing that Eichel or McDavid got and decides he only wants five years I think we'd have to prepare ourselves for the reality that he's thinking about his future and doesn't necessarily see playing for the Leafs for the entirety of his career as a certainty.

What happened with Tavares didn't just happen out of the blue and if Matthews makes a similar decision it won't just happen out of the blue either.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 02, 2018, 12:38:45 PM
I can't though, it's good fortune that Tavares chose the Leafs but I fear if we gloat too much karma will bite us in the ass and maybe Matthews leaves to Arizona when it's his turn.

If Matthews decides that after 9 years here he's got a burning desire to play in Arizona than best of luck to him but I think it's important to draw not pretend that would be a mirror image of what happened here.

The Islanders, during most of Tavares' time there, were a mess of an organization. They lacked stable ownership and, really, a modern arena. They made some pretty terrible decisions on top of that like moving to Brooklyn, then deciding to unmove and split their time between Brooklyn and Nassau. To top all of that off it was their choice to sign Tavares to a well under-market 5 year extension.

So if Matthews gets offered, essentially, the same thing that Eichel or McDavid got and decides he only wants five years I think we'd have to prepare ourselves for the reality that he's thinking about his future and doesn't necessarily see playing for the Leafs for the entirety of his career as a certainty.

What happened with Tavares didn't just happen out of the blue and if Matthews makes a similar decision it won't just happen out of the blue either.
All good points. If the trajectory of the Leafs is top team / contender for the foreseeable future he'll most likely want to stay around. Would also help if Arizona isn't that great a team, if they suddenly start winning Cups he might want to be there. As long as the Leafs keep trending in the right direction it'll be a desirable spot for any player.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
Why do people think Lou is a magician?

The short answer is that Hockey People fetishize cup-winning.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
I remember around here (on the former penaltybox.com) in the playoffs when the Leafs played the Islanders.  The Isles fans that came to troll here were insane, just horrific people.  Then, later in the same playoffs, the Leafs played Carolina, and the Carolina fans that posted here were so nice and respectful.  It was such a huge contrast in behaviour.

It's straight-up embarrassing how Islanders fans are attacking Tavares for this. Just gross behavior from adults.

I think we can thank Trumpism for the descent into incivility.

I think we can also thank Trump for making America much less attractive to raise a young family in.

Way to bring political propaganda into a discussion about hockey teams.

Because rude assholes just didnt exist, the world was a magical place of unicorns and rainbows, chocolate cakes and high fives until "Hitler" ruined everything - including hockey fans.

So tired of you types - I like sports and come here to get away from this shit but no - youve gotta bring it here to and whats worse, you havnt the slightest idea what you're talking about. Zero.
For someone who didn't want to pull any further into a political debate this post sure sounds like you're baiting an argument.

You're right - never call a spade a spade or hold anyone to account for sillyness. Better to ignore and pretend its not real.

For a supposed hockey fans board, you guys sure sound like youre more interested in getting into trump bashing rhetoric - in a thread about JOH  TAVARES.

But im the bad guy, for pointing our that it isnt remotely relevant or appropriate.

Sure thing.

Remember when Gretzky didnt get called for high sticking Dougie? friging Trump....
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 12:57:37 PM
I can't though, it's good fortune that Tavares chose the Leafs but I fear if we gloat too much karma will bite us in the ass and maybe Matthews leaves to Arizona when it's his turn.

If Matthews decides that after 9 years here he's got a burning desire to play in Arizona than best of luck to him but I think it's important to draw not pretend that would be a mirror image of what happened here.

The Islanders, during most of Tavares' time there, were a mess of an organization. They lacked stable ownership and, really, a modern arena. They made some pretty terrible decisions on top of that like moving to Brooklyn, then deciding to unmove and split their time between Brooklyn and Nassau. To top all of that off it was their choice to sign Tavares to a well under-market 5 year extension.

So if Matthews gets offered, essentially, the same thing that Eichel or McDavid got and decides he only wants five years I think we'd have to prepare ourselves for the reality that he's thinking about his future and doesn't necessarily see playing for the Leafs for the entirety of his career as a certainty.

What happened with Tavares didn't just happen out of the blue and if Matthews makes a similar decision it won't just happen out of the blue either.

This. As soon as he was drafted I thought cool - but hes American and from Arizona, pretty good chance down the road he might want to go home if the price is right.

I mean, I would.

Thanks for drafting me and all, but its been XX years. I lived there my whole life, my family and friends are there, all the support and people that helped me get where I am today etc.

It would be a bummer but not at all surprising and I certainly wouldnt go medieval lunatic and start calling him a traitor and burning jerseys.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 01:07:08 PM
This. As soon as he was drafted I thought cool - but hes American and from Arizona, pretty good chance down the road he might want to go home if the price is right.

I actually don't really agree with this. While we're all very happy with Tavares coming here I think it's still important to remember that what Tavares did here is still really unusual and, more than that, that his decision wasn't just "I'm from Toronto, I want to play there" even if that's what makes for a compelling narrative.

I guess some people don't but I really believe Tavares when he said that even with everything compelling about leaving the Islanders for the Leafs it was still a very difficult and emotional decision for him. He broke one way on it, sure, but we've seen countless guys break the other way.

So while I wouldn't bet my life on Matthews being a Leaf for life I'd actually be incredibly surprised if he left the team at the same age Tavares did and if he does, I really don't think there's a compelling reason to think it would be for Arizona.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on July 02, 2018, 01:21:34 PM
I guess some people don't but I really believe Tavares when he said that even with everything compelling about leaving the Islanders for the Leafs it was still a very difficult and emotional decision for him. He broke one way on it, sure, but we've seen countless guys break the other way.

Agreed. This is actually the exception that proves the rule.

 I don't think too many people would argue that the NYI org has been the most dysfunctional franchise over the last decade; and considering 6 teams were throwing quite a bit at Tavares (and probably at least 12 more teams, if he took more interviews) - and the fact it came down to only one team that could tempt him away from leaving - it definitely validates the rarity of likelyhood of reoccurance.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
This. As soon as he was drafted I thought cool - but hes American and from Arizona, pretty good chance down the road he might want to go home if the price is right.

I actually don't really agree with this. While we're all very happy with Tavares coming here I think it's still important to remember that what Tavares did here is still really unusual and, more than that, that his decision wasn't just "I'm from Toronto, I want to play there" even if that's what makes for a compelling narrative.

I guess some people don't but I really believe Tavares when he said that even with everything compelling about leaving the Islanders for the Leafs it was still a very difficult and emotional decision for him. He broke one way on it, sure, but we've seen countless guys break the other way.

So while I wouldn't bet my life on Matthews being a Leaf for life I'd actually be incredibly surprised if he left the team at the same age Tavares did and if he does, I really don't think there's a compelling reason to think it would be for Arizona.

 I guess I meant more along the lines of "if it were me". It is an anomaly that a guy does this, but there is a case there for compelling reasons to at least consider "going home" versus say, I dunno Edmonton or something.

I think he would have liked to play here but even from last year this team looks alot better than it did.

Being from Toronto isnt the only factor im sure - but is a factor, is all im saying - which is why I wouldnt be totally shocked it Matthews or anybody decided to leave.

Niedermayer left to play with his brother, but Anaheim being a pretty good team at the time didnt hurt either.

Thats the other caveat, it the team is garbage nobody will want to jump at going there - hometown or not.

If you took the leafs from 3 years ago and put them in yesterdays sweepstakes id guess theres close to 0% chance he comes here. Toronto is good, babcock and shanahan are better, matthews and marner even better still.

I watched the presser, I believe him when he says it was difficult. Its a big change.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 02:02:17 PM
Being from Toronto isnt the only factor im sure - but is a factor, is all im saying - which is why I wouldnt be totally shocked it Matthews or anybody decided to leave.

I guess the way that I would put it is that if a star player leaves the team that drafted him voluntarily I wouldn't be shocked if a desire to play closer to home influenced where he went but generally speaking I would still be shocked if a star player chose to leave the team that drafted him at all.

There's just so much financial incentive for a guy to stick around with who drafted him that I really do think it takes a situation like the Islanders where just about everything has to go wrong, both on and off the ice, for it even to be a realistic possibility.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mot the Barber on July 02, 2018, 02:05:20 PM
Tavares made a great decision and I hope it inspires others to come "home" since there are quite a few players that are from Ontario and were fans of the Leafs growing up. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 03:00:49 PM
Being from Toronto isnt the only factor im sure - but is a factor, is all im saying - which is why I wouldnt be totally shocked it Matthews or anybody decided to leave.

I guess the way that I would put it is that if a star player leaves the team that drafted him voluntarily I wouldn't be shocked if a desire to play closer to home influenced where he went but generally speaking I would still be shocked if a star player chose to leave the team that drafted him at all.

There's just so much financial incentive for a guy to stick around with who drafted him that I really do think it takes a situation like the Islanders where just about everything has to go wrong, both on and off the ice, for it even to be a realistic possibility.

Ive never been a stupid-rich multi millionaire , so im only talking out of my ass: but id have to imagine at some point (when you already have 60 or 70 million bucks, US for that matter so 2 billion Canadian) is an extra 6 or 7 million really that big of a deal anymore?

Im sure it matters, but id think 70 million vs 85 million matters alot less when you're already drowning in cash. I would imagine finding a good team you want to play with and win would be a much higher priority

Unless you're ... well wont name names but fill in the blanks lol theres always mercenaries out there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 03:02:15 PM
Tavares made a great decision and I hope it inspires others to come "home" since there are quite a few players that are from Ontario and were fans of the Leafs growing up.

I hope so, I also hope Tavares 'lead by example' to leave money on the table to play in Toronto has a ripple effect on future contract negotiations.

"Well Austin, you know John burned 10 million to come here...." lol
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 03:25:11 PM
Ive never been a stupid-rich multi millionaire , so im only talking out of my ass: but id have to imagine at some point (when you already have 60 or 70 million bucks, US for that matter so 2 billion Canadian) is an extra 6 or 7 million really that big of a deal anymore?

Im sure it matters, but id think 70 million vs 85 million matters alot less when you're already drowning in cash. I would imagine finding a good team you want to play with and win would be a much higher priority

Well, leaving aside that 7 million dollars is still an awful lot of money I'm not really talking about that sort of thing. What I'm talking about is guys who are coming off entry level deals, and as such haven't earned 60 or 70 million yet, negotiating their first deals. What I think we've seen in the past is that those players basically have two choices available to them. Either they take shorter term deals(Tavares, Kane, Toews) that get them to free agency ASAP, which are usually significantly under market value, or they get offered huge, almost market level deals that last the max the way Eichel and McDavid did.

Right? So if Matthews wants a five year deal to get to free agency ASAP he might be looking at, say, a 5 year/40 million dollar offer. If, however, he's committed to signing a max length extension he very well might get an offer somewhere between McDavid and Eichel, or in the 8 years/90 million dollar range.

So you're talking about kids who maybe aren't entirely set for life choosing between guaranteeing themselves 40 million or 90 million. That's a lot of money either way but we haven't seen too many players in that position turning down the bigger offer. That's a tremendous financial incentive.

Sure, when that second deal is up there's less incentive to stick around but by that point they've been on the team 11 years and there are probably huge personal reasons to stick around.

Unless you're ... well wont name names but fill in the blanks lol theres always mercenaries out there.

Who are you referring to?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Mack674 on July 02, 2018, 03:51:10 PM
No one in particular, just pro sports in general. Theres always some guys that will just go where the most money is, period.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 02, 2018, 04:22:02 PM
This is all under the assumption that Arizona still has a team by that time.

Besides. Again. Can we just enjoy the moment? If Matthews leaves in 5-7 years so what? Enjoy the tome we have with him on the team while it lasts.

Seriously this thread is so up and down. This is an awesome day and an amazing era we as leafs fans are going into. Enjoy it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 02, 2018, 05:05:53 PM
This. As soon as he was drafted I thought cool - but hes American and from Arizona, pretty good chance down the road he might want to go home if the price is right.

I actually don't really agree with this. While we're all very happy with Tavares coming here I think it's still important to remember that what Tavares did here is still really unusual and, more than that, that his decision wasn't just "I'm from Toronto, I want to play there" even if that's what makes for a compelling narrative.

I guess some people don't but I really believe Tavares when he said that even with everything compelling about leaving the Islanders for the Leafs it was still a very difficult and emotional decision for him. He broke one way on it, sure, but we've seen countless guys break the other way.

So while I wouldn't bet my life on Matthews being a Leaf for life I'd actually be incredibly surprised if he left the team at the same age Tavares did and if he does, I really don't think there's a compelling reason to think it would be for Arizona.

I'd also add that, while Tavares' emphasis on the significance of returning to the team he grew up cheering for may be 100% as important to him as it's been stated, I could also see the possibility that he's played that factor up a little to soften the blow to New York.  It's a lot easier to say to Isles fans that the Leafs offered him something sentimental that the Islanders couldn't match, rather than to bluntly state the obvious:  that the Leafs are a way better organization that's infinitely closer to a Cup.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 02, 2018, 07:40:33 PM
The most frustrating part of this signing for me has been the media members who are falling over themselves to play devils advocate about the Leafs lack of defense or even their ability to pay their stars.

There is actual math out there done by fans via cap friendly and the like that show very clearly how this can all be done financially.

It is so unprofessional for those hired to speak about the team to have not done even the most basic research that fans online have done. 

The TMLfans podcast could set them all straight. ;)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 02, 2018, 07:58:28 PM
It is so unprofessional for those hired to speak about the team to have not done even the most basic research that fans online have done. 

Although.... if the Nylander negotiation drags out as he wants $7m and the Leafs want less than $6.5m, wouldn't it be smart for a team to try to sign him for, say, $8mx5? Compensation isn't terrible, and, if the Leafs match, you've made it harder for them to re-sign Matthews and Marner without cutting into the depth. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 02, 2018, 08:10:34 PM
I have zero doubt the Leafs would match that and explore other options afterwards.

Offer sheets in the NHL are weird because past a certain point they become cost prohibitive for the team acquiring them too and at that point the compensation on offer is usually worthwhile.

Without Hainsey, Gardiner, Marleau and Hortonís contract the Leafs have a lot of cap room.

My point being no matter the lazy suggestion thrown out there, the Leafs have positioned themselves in a great spot to counter.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 02, 2018, 08:20:14 PM
Without Hainsey, Gardiner, Marleau and Hortonís contract the Leafs have a lot of cap room.

My point being no matter the lazy suggestion thrown out there, the Leafs have positioned themselves in a great spot to counter.

Well, Marleau's got a pretty ironclad NMC no? So, there's only one contract there that they'd be able to move without getting worse (Gardiner) or taking stuff back/ attaching assets (as they'd have to for Horton). That $3m would certainly get it done though, I agree.

I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 08:24:03 PM
It's a lot easier to say to Isles fans that the Leafs offered him something sentimental that the Islanders couldn't match, rather than to bluntly state the obvious:  that the Leafs are a way better organization that's infinitely closer to a Cup.

I think that's true and I think this sort of underscores another reason why it's hard to see other players like Tavares leaving their teams. For starters, I don't want to say it's easy to build a good team around a guy like him but I also think you have to screw up in a lot of ways not to.

So for example, in 4 of the 5 years after drafting Tavares, the Islanders had picks in the top 5 of the draft. Here's how they did with those picks:

2010: #5 Nino Niederreiter

There were a few really good players on the board(Tarasenko, Skinner, Kuznetsov) but it's not a terrible pick. Problem is they traded him when he was 21 and got a 4th line player like Cal Clutterbuck in return

2011: #5 Ryan Strome

Not a bad player but a frighteningly bad pick. The four picks after him were Zibanejad, Scheifele, Couturier, Hamilton. He's probably the worst pick in the entire top 10 of that draft.

2012: #4 Griffin Reinhart

Again, he may have something of a NHL career but wow was this a whiff. Even if they were only looking for defensemen the guys who went after him in the top 10 included Rielly, Dumba, Lindholm and Trouba. Then the Caps took some guy named Filip Forsberg at 11. They conned an even dumber team out of a pick for Reinhart eventually and that pick became Barzal but still...talk about a wasted opportunity

2014: #5 Michael Dal Collle

Again, a draft where just about everyone in the top 10 looks like they'll have some sort of legit NHL career except for the Islanders pick. Again, if they were looking wing they could have gone Nylander or Ehlers. Even Ritchie and Virtanen look like better picks right now.

The Islanders have some good picks from that era and I get that you could do a "look at who was available at their pick" to any team but man is that a bad run of drafting in the top 5. Even if you want to say it's all luck then it's a terrible run of luck. They probably would have done better with putting the top 10 prospects on a board and throwing darts.

So, yeah, the Islanders being a mess is pretty clearly an issue here and again...I think if a team is going to be bad enough to draft #1 overall they're probably going to have some other high picks and I just think it's tough to imagine messing up the way the Islanders did. Again, just about everything had to break wrong for them for Tavares to be in the situation he was in.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 08:39:11 PM

I donít know the CapFriendly person, but I suspect he or she is an awesome person.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Hobbes on July 02, 2018, 08:41:29 PM
So, yeah, the Islanders being a mess is pretty clearly an issue here and again...I think if a team is going to be bad enough to draft #1 overall they're probably going to have some other high picks and I just think it's tough to imagine messing up the way the Islanders did. Again, just about everything had to break wrong for them for Tavares to be in the situation he was in.

All things considered the Oilers aren't covering themselves with glory. Another 5 years of their futility might see another big name looking for a legitimate opportunity to win a cup.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 08:51:04 PM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 02, 2018, 09:03:36 PM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get, combined, in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.

This post has me considering bigamy.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 02, 2018, 09:12:44 PM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get, combined, in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.

Yeah, I think that's the longterm outlook, and I'm not particularly concerned that they won't be able to keep the core. But... if any of those deals get dragged out by the player's side and another team steps in with an offer sheet... say, Nylander signs somewhere for 8. Leafs match, okay, but now we're a bit squeezed. Have to trim elsewhere. Even if you're not actually adding those players to your team, you could be still be weakening the team.

As I said, I'm not worried that the Leafs are somehow set up to be worse after assembling what might be the best collection of high-end forward talent in the conference. Just trying to imagine what opposing GMs might be thinking -- and probably wishing that the RFA system got a bit more interesting.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 09:22:22 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/inside-story-maple-leafs-won-john-tavares-sweepstakes/

Quote
As part of his preparation, Dubas studied whatís worked best for NBA teams in free agency. He picked the brains of Toronto Raptors executives Masai Ujiri, Bobby Webster and Teresa Resch to glean what he could from their experiences. He decided to focus almost exclusively on what Toronto could offer Tavares as a hockey player.

Thatís where Marner came in.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 09:41:16 PM
Yeah, I think that's the longterm outlook, and I'm not particularly concerned that they won't be able to keep the core. But... if any of those deals get dragged out by the player's side and another team steps in with an offer sheet... say, Nylander signs somewhere for 8. Leafs match, okay, but now we're a bit squeezed. Have to trim elsewhere. Even if you're not actually adding those players to your team, you could be still be weakening the team.

Eh. I mean, I like Johnsson and everything but if you just deal him and all of a sudden you just need to sign the 4 guys to a combined 34 million or something you're fine. Yeah I guess you're "weakening the team" or whatever but I think it'd be also kind of disappointing if someone like Bracco or Timoshov or...heh...Korshkov couldn't effectively step in there without any real damage. 


As I said, I'm not worried that the Leafs are somehow set up to be worse after assembling what might be the best collection of high-end forward talent in the conference. Just trying to imagine what opposing GMs might be thinking -- and probably wishing that the RFA system got a bit more interesting.

See, I think this sort of makes the NHL seem more Machiavellian than it really is. Sure, maybe Lamoriello is in his last NHL job and might throw caution to the wind in an act of revenge or whatever but outside of that enough teams have their own cap issues, or potential cap issues, to make offer-sheeting a guy just to gum up Toronto a pretty dumb move. I think the reason the NHL has gotten where it is with the RFA market is precisely because the system is set up so that offer sheets are a spectacularly bad idea.

Like, take Nylander. Let's say the Islanders offer sheet him. Let's even ignore the thing about them not having their 2nd and 3rd. I like Nylander fine but is Nylander really moving the needle there? Does signing him to a too-high cap hit really improve the Islanders long term vs. maybe taking a shot at Jack Hughes?

Yeah, Toronto still probably matches but the dumbest thing in the world for a team to do would be to sign a guy to an offer sheet that they don't actually want. All you're doing is opening the floodgates while shooting yourself in the foot while mixing metaphors.

I genuinely think most NHL gms, both for their teams and in self interest, probably think the best thing they can do is just focus on their own lane without trying to sabotage anyone else.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 02, 2018, 09:41:46 PM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get, combined, in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.

Yeah, I think that's the longterm outlook, and I'm not particularly concerned that they won't be able to keep the core. But... if any of those deals get dragged out by the player's side and another team steps in with an offer sheet... say, Nylander signs somewhere for 8. Leafs match, okay, but now we're a bit squeezed. Have to trim elsewhere. Even if you're not actually adding those players to your team, you could be still be weakening the team.

As I said, I'm not worried that the Leafs are somehow set up to be worse after assembling what might be the best collection of high-end forward talent in the conference. Just trying to imagine what opposing GMs might be thinking -- and probably wishing that the RFA system got a bit more interesting.

You guys realize that the entire tenor of this discussion is on a whole other plane of existence than, say, 10 years ago.  Just saying, savor every minute of our suddenly First World Problems.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 02, 2018, 09:44:27 PM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.

You forgot secret hidden task #5.  The Senators trade Karlsson to a team in the West, who then trades him to the Leafs for a better package than what the Senators received.  At that point they sign him to an 11 million/per deal for 8 years.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 09:48:55 PM
You guys realize that the entire tenor of this discussion is on a whole other plane of existence than, say, 10 years ago.  Just saying, savor every minute of our suddenly First World Problems.

At times like these I like to channel Mike Babcock who would no doubt say that you shouldn't be focused on the nature of your problems but the nature of your solutions.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 02, 2018, 09:50:31 PM
On the subject of offer sheets, a little trivia I just realized:  Jake Gardiner was drafted by Anaheim with one of the draft picks Edmonton gave them for offer sheeting Dustin Penner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 09:58:28 PM
On the subject of offer sheets, a little trivia I just realized:  Jake Gardiner was drafted by Anaheim with one of the draft picks Edmonton gave them for offer sheeting Dustin Penner.

Wikipedia seems to say it's actually a little more complicated than that. Gardiner was taken by the Ducks with a pick that originally belonged to Calgary that Anaheim got after trading Edmonton's pick down to LA and then LA traded that pick to Buffalo.

It looks like the compensation pick was then used by Buffalo on Tyler Myers.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 02, 2018, 09:59:11 PM
You guys realize that the entire tenor of this discussion is on a whole other plane of existence than, say, 10 years ago.  Just saying, savor every minute of our suddenly First World Problems.

At times like these I like to channel Mike Babcock who would no doubt say that you shouldn't be focused on the nature of your problems but the nature of your solutions.

Well, First World solutions usually revolve around money, which MLSE has.  Got.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 02, 2018, 10:00:59 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qfdkn2bDp98
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfF4u-DjH1Y

Just watching these for the next couple of months.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 02, 2018, 10:03:52 PM
Well, First World solutions usually revolve around money, which MLSE has.  Got.

You know, all the money in the world can't buy character. And character is revealed through hard work. So really what we're focused on right now is hard work, doing things the right way and letting the rest take care of itself.

(Seriously, I can't stop with the Babcockisms.)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: freer on July 02, 2018, 10:14:28 PM
It is so unprofessional for those hired to speak about the team to have not done even the most basic research that fans online have done. 

Although.... if the Nylander negotiation drags out as he wants $7m and the Leafs want less than $6.5m, wouldn't it be smart for a team to try to sign him for, say, $8mx5? Compensation isn't terrible, and, if the Leafs match, you've made it harder for them to re-sign Matthews and Marner without cutting into the depth.

Well if William were worth more then Kadri maybe he should. Unfortunately Will did not prove that he is worth that kind of money. After last season he should not be signed for any more then 5 mil a year IMO
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 02, 2018, 10:18:18 PM
I'm not worried about the cap and fitting all the guys in. I've accepted the fact that Dubas is smarter than I am and his team of pencil neck geeks who know the salary cap rules like they wrote it will figure out some creative solutions.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on July 03, 2018, 12:11:12 AM
On the subject of offer sheets, a little trivia I just realized:  Jake Gardiner was drafted by Anaheim with one of the draft picks Edmonton gave them for offer sheeting Dustin Penner.

Wikipedia seems to say it's actually a little more complicated than that. Gardiner was taken by the Ducks with a pick that originally belonged to Calgary that Anaheim got after trading Edmonton's pick down to LA and then LA traded that pick to Buffalo.

It looks like the compensation pick was then used by Buffalo on Tyler Myers.

Oh yeah, I wasn't paying attention.  Side note:  between Myers getting picked at #12 and Gardiner going at #17 was good old Erik Karlsson at #15.  The Oilers maybe could have used a guy like that instead of Penner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: princedpw on July 03, 2018, 12:32:09 AM
I generally agree that the Leafs are set up really well to have a handful of stars eating up a lot of cap space. They don't have the middle class contracts that really hurt (well, Zaitsev)... but I guess I'm just trying to think like another GM. Leafs are coming on fast, and I'd be nervous. If there's a way to slow them down, throw sand the gears, I'd look at it.

I tried to look at to what extent things would really get sticky for the Leafs before Marleau's contract comes off the book and for the Leafs to really be in trouble I think a few things have to happen:

1. They re-sign Gardiner
2. They can't move Martin
3. The five young guys who need to be re-signed get in excess of 35 million combined.
4. There's almost no cap growth


I looked at things in sort of a worst case scenario way to get that 35 million by the way. My breakdown was 11.5 for Matthews, 8.5 for Marner, 7 for Nylander, 5 for Kapanen and 3 for Johnsson. If you can whittle that down at all the Leafs will be fine for the most part and if you can't then it's really just the one tough year until Marleau's contract comes off the books at which point between cap growth and that expiring deal they'll have 10 million or so to play with/re-sign guys like Dermott.

The Leafs will definitely have to make some hard decisions 4 or 5 years down the line but realistically those decisions will be about guys like Kadri more than any of their top flight guys.

If Kapanen suddenly becomes good enough to warrant a minimum $5/year RFA deal then I think you can turn that into a positive:  you should be able to trade him for a very exciting prospect or pick to fill in efficiently.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 03, 2018, 12:40:34 AM
Oh yeah, I wasn't paying attention.  Side note:  between Myers getting picked at #12 and Gardiner going at #17 was good old Erik Karlsson at #15.  The Oilers maybe could have used a guy like that instead of Penner.

The only reason I made the distinction is because I remembered that Gardiner got picked 17th so for it to have been the Oilers pick would have meant that they had made the playoffs the year before and, well, that sounded wrong.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 03, 2018, 09:15:38 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
+1
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 03, 2018, 09:52:08 AM
Haha I totally forgot about that. Yuck
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 03, 2018, 10:12:02 AM

The only thing better than that Tavares play from last season is the next tweet from @IslesBlog:

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 03, 2018, 12:01:48 PM
And in fairness, that was outstanding defensive work by Couturier. There's just no way to defend against that.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 03, 2018, 12:06:51 PM
And in fairness, that was outstanding defensive work by Couturier. There's just no way to defend against that.

Yeah, he did that against a Selke finalist (and the guy who probably should have won the award).
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 03, 2018, 12:45:55 PM
Again though, saying that the system is "broken" is implying that it's not doing what it's supposed to do. But it is doing that. It's giving the illusion that young players have some measure of freedom while still giving teams ultimate control. That is by design.

So what's actually broken is the fact that people actually think the RFA system is supposed to do anything.

So long as there's a hard cap and escrow payments why should we care how the money gets distributed? All you do by artificially limiting the supply of free agents in that scenario is divert money away from very good young players to mediocre older players.

When you think about it in the context that you provide above, it really doesn't make any sense to have an RFA system or a draft really.  Either offer free agency at a specific time or offer it at the start. 

I understand that controlling the inflation on the contracts is the main idea here, but you have to think that they could analyze the way teams get built, and if the ultimate goal is parity, then allowing teams to build themselves up quickly should be an end goal.   
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 03, 2018, 12:59:21 PM
When you think about it in the context that you provide above, it really doesn't make any sense to have an RFA system or a draft really.  Either offer free agency at a specific time or offer it at the start.

Well, it makes sense in as much as the Owners want control as much as anything. Simply having a financial system that protects them from their own stupidity isn't enough, they also want to feel like they dictate the terms to their employees regardless of their employees negotiating power.   

The current system allows for, and encourages, parity to some extent but only in the sense of forcing teams to scrap down and rebuild and build through a system they have no real control over. A mass free for all of talent would inject risk and creativity into the system and, well, that's not really what the NHL is about.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on July 03, 2018, 02:24:19 PM
guess I better get started on 91 TavaresBear and whatever number SeabrookBear is gonna wear :D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 03, 2018, 02:26:27 PM
guess I better get started on 91 TavaresBear and whatever number SeabrookBear is gonna wear :D
Seabrook?? I don't think we want anything to do with that contract
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 03, 2018, 02:37:36 PM
I forgot to follow up my:

"I find this lack of news....disturbing"

post in the Tavares thread on Sunday with this:

"Now witness the power of this fully operational Leaf offence"

post, so I am doing it now. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on July 03, 2018, 03:41:30 PM
guess I better get started on 91 TavaresBear and whatever number SeabrookBear is gonna wear :D
Seabrook?? I don't think we want anything to do with that contract

apparently that was a hoax. No Seabrook here......   but I still have to work on TavaresBear  (and perhaps spend part of the off season moving all my bear pictures from photobucket to imgur so I can use them here again)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 03, 2018, 04:53:42 PM

This guy.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 03, 2018, 05:09:40 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/03/nazem-kadri-on-prospect-of-role-change-with-addition-of-john-tavares-i-just-want-to-win-every-every-single-year-i-watch-the-stanley-cup-finals-the-two-teams-are-playing-in-june-and-i-just-want-th/

Quote
On what he wouldíve told Tavares if he did make it out to California for the pitch

Kadri: Wins. Thatís the simple answer. We are trying to build something special. We are not only trying to build it for the next two or three years; itís going to be about of significant amount of time where we can contend. I think thatís what he is most excited about. Not to mention off the ice Ė I know he is getting married and we have a great group of wives and girlfriends that she is going to get along with wonderfully. I just think all of that coming together made the decision easier.

Some masterful shade there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 03, 2018, 05:31:18 PM

This guy.

That's some brassy self-horn-blowing there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 03, 2018, 06:26:33 PM
Apparently Tavares is trying to convince De Haan to sign here. Already doing work
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on July 03, 2018, 07:46:55 PM
Apparently Tavares is trying to convince De Haan to sign here. Already doing work
That way the Ilses fans can hate 2 guys instead of JT alone!!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 03, 2018, 10:09:17 PM

HYPE.

Lol @ last three.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: TML fan on July 04, 2018, 03:55:37 AM
Apparently Tavares is trying to convince De Haan to sign here. Already doing work

Looks like De Haan signed with the Hurricanes.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: mr grieves on July 04, 2018, 11:44:41 AM
HYPE.

Lol @ last three.

After missing on Tavares and Kovalchuk, STL ended up doing pretty well.

AthleticDom had the Leafs doing similarly well.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 11:48:57 AM
HYPE.

Lol @ last three.

Not last four?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 04, 2018, 01:17:11 PM
HYPE.

Lol @ last three.

Not last four?

Too obvious.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 04, 2018, 01:18:44 PM

Itís more fun when you show the cap hits before and after Tavares and their subsequent results with their new teams away from Tavares.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 01:26:37 PM
This Tavares signing will be an interesting case study for future #1 overall picks when their respective contracts are up.

Do I think that Tavares jumping ship will finally make other young stars chase championships ala the NBA model?  I'm not so sure.

The Tavares situation is really unique in that, the Islanders were a horrible organization during his entire tenure there.  They might have tried to sell him on things getting better with the hiring of Lou and Trotz, but after seeing the mess the organization was in after so many seasons with them, he probably didn't believe a fix was coming anytime soon.  So him coming to the Leafs was due to 1) The Islanders being terrible for so long 2) The Leafs on the rise, and were his hometown favorite team as a kid. 

For other young players to make the move I think a similar set of circumstances would have to play out.  If you can keep your team competitive to a point where it's believable that they're in the mix for a long playoff run I think the "stay put" mentality takes over for a player because it's the comfort zone they've always known. 

Given that we've never seen this type of movement before (that is a superstar like Tavares still relatively in his prime leaving his original team), I think it may be a one-off.



Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 01:29:39 PM

Agreed. The Islanders really had to be uniquely terrible for all of this to happen. Even on-ice terribleness wouldn't be enough, see OEL, you really need to be a mess of a franchise.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 01:35:08 PM

Agreed. The Islanders really had to be uniquely terrible for all of this to happen. Even on-ice terribleness wouldn't be enough, see OEL, you really need to be a mess of a franchise.

As bad as Arizona has been, they have hope their for the future.  Some nice players in the pipeline, the trade for Galchenyuk might be good for them.  Also they played really well the second half of last season, they might surprise this year.  So yeah, OEL could buy into that.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 01:41:04 PM
As bad as Arizona has been, they have hope their for the future.  Some nice players in the pipeline, the trade for Galchenyuk might be good for them.  Also they played really well the second half of last season, they might surprise this year.  So yeah, OEL could buy into that.

Eh, I don't see their assembled young talent as being particularly better than the Islanders. Both had a Calder candidate. Both have some B or B+ guys outside of the NHL. I actually think the Islanders had a better draft than they did. Is Chychrun better than Pulock? Is Dvorak better than Beauvillier?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 01:54:47 PM

I also think the reason you'll never see guys in the NHL chase rings the way they do in the NBA is that Basketball is just the realities of the money in both sports. Lebron just signed a deal that'll pay him nearly 40 million a year and it's still probably not going to be as much as his off-court income. Kevin Durant wins a championship and he has a "I won a Championship" shoe commercial 10 minutes later. From what I'm told, the big thing in marketing internationally(and especially in China) is having titles.

So taking less money to be on a contender in the NBA can make real financial sense in addition to the rest of it. In the NHL, you're living off your salary.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 02:01:27 PM

I also think the reason you'll never see guys in the NHL chase rings the way they do in the NBA is that Basketball is just the realities of the money in both sports. Lebron just signed a deal that'll pay him nearly 40 million a year and it's still probably not going to be as much as his off-court income. Kevin Durant wins a championship and he has a "I won a Championship" shoe commercial 10 minutes later. From what I'm told, the big thing in marketing internationally(and especially in China) is having titles.

So taking less money to be on a contender in the NBA can make real financial sense in addition to the rest of it. In the NHL, you're living off your salary.

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 02:14:52 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 02:18:44 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.

I'll go out on a limb and pick Golden State to win next season.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 04, 2018, 02:23:13 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.

Also, I get that Golden State is really taking this thing to the next level, but people seem to forget that prior to this year the NHL only had 4 different teams win the Cup in a 9-year span.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 02:26:29 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.

Also, I get that Golden State is really taking this thing to the next level, but people seem to forget that prior to this year the NHL only had 4 different teams win the Cup in a 9-year span.

True, but you've also had 4 different Cup winners in the last 5 seasons.  ;)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 04, 2018, 02:29:57 PM
Quote
I'll go out on a limb and pick Golden State to win next season.

You and I watched very different episodes of Legends of Hockey

"The Canadiens were starstudded. Hall of famers at every position. Won 4 cups in a row. Fans were miserable. Hated every minute. The game barely survived."
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 04, 2018, 02:31:37 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.

Also, I get that Golden State is really taking this thing to the next level, but people seem to forget that prior to this year the NHL only had 4 different teams win the Cup in a 9-year span.

Yeah it did seem like it was just a rotating cast for a few years.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 04, 2018, 02:42:03 PM
Quote from: Zee

Yeah good point about the NBA and the money. It's an entirely different stratosphere.  I can't stand the NBA at all by the way, never watch.  I mean when there's basically 1 team that really can win, what's the point?

For what it's worth I think that's a little overstated. The team that won the title was also down 3 games to 2 in the conference finals and it took a historic game 7 collapse by the Rockets for them to even make the finals.

There are probably 4 or 5 genuine contenders each year who are legitimately great teams. Is that better or worse thsn a league where an expansion team is as good as anyone else? To each their own.

Also, I get that Golden State is really taking this thing to the next level, but people seem to forget that prior to this year the NHL only had 4 different teams win the Cup in a 9-year span.

Yeah it did seem like it was just a rotating cast for a few years.

That's ok, we'll have the Leafs added to the list of Cup winners this upcoming season.  8)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 05, 2018, 07:50:53 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/04/john-tavares-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-pitch/

JT drinking game: every time he says Ďobviouslyí.
I might be dead by training camp.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 05, 2018, 02:17:18 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/P6VKn1H.gif)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 05, 2018, 02:32:41 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/P6VKn1H.gif)

Quote
Having covered the Islanders new hockey boss since Lamorielloís Devils debut in 1987, Iíve admired the manner in which he always managed to adjust his club after the Bye-Bye Brigade exited for hockeyís Shangri-La.

-Kirk Muller: Nice knowing you ex-captain.

-Bobby Holik: Enjoy your riches elsewhere ó but no more Cups for you.
No more cups for the Devils either.

-Jason Arnott: Thanks for that biggie in Dallas; forget about champagne after that.

ĖScott Gomez: Two  Cups in New Jersey; none elsewhere.

Oh, yeah, Brendan Shanahan, Bill Guerin and Ilya Kovalchuk; remember them?

I don't get this at all. Muller won a cup after leaving New Jersey. Shanahan won 3 cups and went on to a HHOF career? Remember him?

And it feels like there's a name missing from the list. Biedernayer? Fliederpayer? Something like that?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 05, 2018, 02:38:52 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/P6VKn1H.gif)

Quote
Having covered the Islanders new hockey boss since Lamorielloís Devils debut in 1987, Iíve admired the manner in which he always managed to adjust his club after the Bye-Bye Brigade exited for hockeyís Shangri-La.

-Kirk Muller: Nice knowing you ex-captain.

-Bobby Holik: Enjoy your riches elsewhere ó but no more Cups for you.
No more cups for the Devils either.

-Jason Arnott: Thanks for that biggie in Dallas; forget about champagne after that.

ĖScott Gomez: Two  Cups in New Jersey; none elsewhere.

Oh, yeah, Brendan Shanahan, Bill Guerin and Ilya Kovalchuk; remember them?

I don't get this at all. Muller won a cup after leaving New Jersey. Shanahan won 3 cups and went on to a HHOF career? Remember him?

And it feels like there's a name missing from the list. Biedernayer? Fliederpayer? Something like that?

And Neidermayer would probably be the closest comparable to the John Tavares situation. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 05, 2018, 02:49:43 PM
Breaking news: old hockey fart thinks other old hockey fart is a-ok!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 05, 2018, 02:52:23 PM
I actually think Fischler's onto something here though. I mean Martin Brodeur never won a Cup after he left New Jersey either.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Coco-puffs on July 05, 2018, 02:53:24 PM
Breaking news: old hockey fart thinks other old hockey fart is a-ok!

And everyone wonders why it smells so much on Long Island while old-farts discuss what they ate for lunch.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 05, 2018, 03:48:54 PM
I actually think Fischler's onto something here though. I mean Martin Brodeur never won a Cup after he left New Jersey either.

Neither has Lou himself.  :(
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 05, 2018, 04:44:21 PM
What happens when Tavares reaches years 5-7 of his contract and he has lost a step?

Grundstrom-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander-Bracco/Whoever/Griffith
Johnsson-Der-Arguchintsev-Kapanen
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on July 05, 2018, 05:59:07 PM
Stan epitomizes the old man yelling at clouds persona. 
I don't think anyone disputes that Lou was a great GM and put together really good teams in New Jersey for their style of play.  They benefitted from having a Hall of Fame goaltender and some fantastic defensemen and had good production through their career.  Most of the trades on that list had good tradeoffs for both teams.  A handful of the free agents (Gomez/Holik) weren't let go because Lou didn't want them, but because they had budget limitations and Sather was able to spend like an idiot in New York.

New Jersey won 5 playoff rounds in the last 12 years of his tenure as GM of the Devils.  They did make the Cup finals once during that span as the 6th seed in the East.  I'm not sure that you can look to his performance over the last 15 years and hold Lou in the same esteem as you could in the clutch and grab/Brodeur era.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bender on July 05, 2018, 10:10:32 PM
Stan epitomizes the old man yelling at clouds persona. 
I don't think anyone disputes that Lou was a great GM and put together really good teams in New Jersey for their style of play.  They benefitted from having a Hall of Fame goaltender and some fantastic defensemen and had good production through their career.  Most of the trades on that list had good tradeoffs for both teams.  A handful of the free agents (Gomez/Holik) weren't let go because Lou didn't want them, but because they had budget limitations and Sather was able to spend like an idiot in New York.

New Jersey won 5 playoff rounds in the last 12 years of his tenure as GM of the Devils.  They did make the Cup finals once during that span as the 6th seed in the East.  I'm not sure that you can look to his performance over the last 15 years and hold Lou in the same esteem as you could in the clutch and grab/Brodeur era.
Any GM who has one of the best goaltenders of all time will probably make some good runs. Unless your last name is Bergevin.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 05, 2018, 11:20:42 PM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 05, 2018, 11:49:43 PM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.

PAP gets even more of my respect now.  He was one of our few brightish spots that one season back there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 05, 2018, 11:54:05 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/07/04/john-tavares-on-the-toronto-maple-leafs-pitch/

JT drinking game: every time he says Ďobviouslyí.
I might be dead by training camp.

... theyíve got Lou Lamoriello and hired Barry Trotz, both incredibly credible hockey guys.

Thank you, God, for allowing me to live long enough to read that.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 06, 2018, 08:15:16 AM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.

PAP gets even more of my respect now.  He was one of our few brightish spots that one season back there.

The math for PAP is wrong.  61 to 51 is 10, not 11.  It's also wrong for Vanek and Bailey.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Joe S. on July 06, 2018, 08:31:44 AM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.

You could probably do something similar for sundin.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 08:33:09 AM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.

You could probably do something similar for sundin.

Let's just let Tavares play with 2 stiffs since he'll still produce, keep the good wingers for Matthews and Kadri.  ;D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 06, 2018, 09:37:16 AM

I can always depend on the screenshots of strangers.

PAP gets even more of my respect now.  He was one of our few brightish spots that one season back there.

The math for PAP is wrong.  61 to 51 is 10, not 11.  It's also wrong for Vanek and Bailey.

I think it might be a rounding to whole numbers issue there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 06, 2018, 09:59:07 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 10:10:38 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

I think Dubas knows he has to get Marner done before he plays with Tavares.  I can really see Marner being over a point a game player, he was already for the 2nd half of last season, imagine he goes out and throws up 95 points. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 06, 2018, 10:28:13 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 10:30:24 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

What are the odds Doogie Howser announces a press conference and the holy trinity are all there announcing their respective 8 year deals? 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 06, 2018, 10:31:29 AM
What are the odds Doogie Howser announces a press conference and the holy trinity are all there announcing their respective 8 year deals? 

I've legit dreamt about this.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on July 06, 2018, 10:33:50 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

Who would have thunk that Dubas is now looking at ways to clone Hyman, so we can have 1 on each line?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 06, 2018, 10:34:47 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

Then you trade Hyman for a boatload and stick someone else with those two... and then trade that guy for a boatload after he scores 30. Rinse and repeat.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 10:37:18 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

Then you trade Hyman for a boatload and stick someone else with those two... and then trade that guy for a boatload after he scores 30. Rinse and repeat.

But he writes kids books, you heartless scum.

(https://newsradio.akamaized.net/images/593482582001/201805/1179/593482582001_5791085211001_5791081265001-vs.jpg)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Coco-puffs on July 06, 2018, 10:37:37 AM
What are the odds Doogie Howser announces a press conference and the holy trinity are all there announcing their respective 8 year deals? 

I've legit dreamt about this.

I haven't had literal dreams about it- but I have thought about it a number of times.  As much as I like the idea, do all of them want to share the spotlight like that on the day they get their mega-rich contracts?  Ideally, yes as it would be very cool.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 10:44:41 AM
What are the odds Doogie Howser announces a press conference and the holy trinity are all there announcing their respective 8 year deals? 

I've legit dreamt about this.

I haven't had literal dreams about it- but I have thought about it a number of times.  As much as I like the idea, do all of them want to share the spotlight like that on the day they get their mega-rich contracts?  Ideally, yes as it would be very cool.

I mean if they're all close and want to do it why not?  Would be a great message to everyone else on the team that the 3 biggest stars (Tavares notwithstanding) share the spotlight.  Team first hup hup.  Of course the bags and bags of money they'll all make wouldn't hurt either.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 06, 2018, 10:46:17 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

Haven't you been paying attention? Our luck is now good.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 10:46:53 AM
Knowing the Tavares Effect, and his betrothal to Marner, I'm very much hoping that Marner's extension is done before the season starts. Or the Hyman Effect is enough of a counter balance.

With our luck, Hyman pulls a Kulemin and scores 30.

Haven't you been paying attention? Our luck is now good.

You've just brought karmic destruction down upon us.  I hope you're happy with yourself.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 06, 2018, 10:50:42 AM
You've just brought karmic destruction down upon us.  I hope you're happy with yourself.

(https://frinkiac.com/meme/S05E13/490656.jpg?b64lines=S0FSTUEgQ0FOIE9OTFkKIEJFIFBPUlRJT05FRCBPVVQgQlkgVEhFCiBDT1NNT1Mh)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 06, 2018, 11:10:38 AM
Then you trade Hyman for a boatload and stick someone else with those two... and then trade that guy for a boatload after he scores 30. Rinse and repeat.

The Islanders. You're talking about trading him to the Islanders, aren't you?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frank E on July 06, 2018, 03:47:49 PM
The way the Leafs built out the contract, Tavares will have received $30m from the Leafs by July 2 2019.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 06, 2018, 05:21:38 PM
The way the Leafs built out the contract, Tavares will have received $30m from the Leafs by July 2 2019.
To put it another way, that's only $3 million less than he got total for his last 6 years.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 07, 2018, 09:00:50 AM
Marleau, Dubas were instrumental in Tavares' decision-making in choosing the Leafs:

Quote
"I was impressed how thorough he was, he had a list of questions and he was specific with what he was asking about,Ē Marleau told The Athletic over the phone on Sunday, hours after Tavaresí blockbuster signing with the Leafs.

ďI went to Toronto to win a Cup, so has John,Ē Marleau said.

Quote
ďKyle was the lead communicator in the pitch and I thought he did a great job painting a picture of where we are and where weíre headed,Ē added Shanahan.

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on July 09, 2018, 08:41:23 PM
A superstar center drafted by another team opts for free-agency and flips. Very rare. He chooses the team on the riseTHETORONTOMAPLELEAFSISTHISBIZARROLAND?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 11, 2018, 02:30:59 PM
Tavares did the Players Tribune thing, anyway this pretty much reinforces my belief that he would have stayed with the Islanders if they didn't fire Snow, the only GM he ever had:

Quote
Then thereís Garth, of course, who drafted me, and, man Ö you know what: I could really just say I owe Garth everything, and leave it there. But one specific thing that I always think of, when I look back on what Garth did for me during my time here, is the way that he always made sure I got to be one of the boys. He knew I was in a unique situation, with these big-time expectations and this bright spotlight. But Garth just always made sure, you know, even with those things just being a fact of life for me, that I still got to grow up at a normal pace. That I still got to become comfortable in my own skin, and mature in my own way. And thatís just the kind of thing that, honestly ó thatís bigger than hockey to me, bigger than this business. Garth Ö I mean, the guy had a teenage kidís entire future in his hands, pure and simple. And he took such great care of me.

Iíll never forget it.

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/john-tavares-new-york-islanders-toronto-maple-leafs-nhl
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 11, 2018, 03:30:26 PM
So are we hiring Garth as AGM, Managing Liaison to Transactions with Edmonton?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 11, 2018, 06:17:52 PM
Nice dig from Tavares to Lou after that stupid "individual success" post that Lou put out about Tavares. Make it look like he would have stayed with the Islanders if Lou never came to town
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 12, 2018, 08:06:50 AM
I just wanted to remind everyone that John Tavares is a Maple Leaf and he's only 27 years old.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 12, 2018, 08:20:32 AM
I just wanted to remind everyone that John Tavares is a Maple Leaf and he's only 27 years old.


HOLY CRAP WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?!!!!?!!?!?!?!?!?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 12, 2018, 08:28:19 AM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 12, 2018, 08:58:05 AM
I'm amazed it's early July and these guys are on the ice working away.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 12, 2018, 09:40:20 AM
I'm amazed it's early July and these guys are on the ice working away.

Maple Leafs have some sort of summer hockey school program. The players participate in demonstration videos, I think.

(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/026/202/america.jpg)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 12, 2018, 09:41:20 AM
I hope Tavares at least stopped on his way off the ice and gave that kid an autograph. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Arn on July 12, 2018, 12:42:51 PM
Tavares did the Players Tribune thing, anyway this pretty much reinforces my belief that he would have stayed with the Islanders if they didn't fire Snow, the only GM he ever had

Lou: "I'm sorry John, you need to change to shirt number 19 and here's a razor for you to shave that stubble off with."

Tavares:  ???
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 12, 2018, 02:59:36 PM
I just wanted to remind everyone that John Tavares is a Maple Leaf and he's only 27 years old.


HOLY CRAP WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN?!!!!?!!?!?!?!?!?

Okay, just to fill you in.   The Leafs also got a first overall pick and drafted a wunderkind by the name of Matthews.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on July 12, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
From director Mike Babcock and exectutive prodcuers Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan: The Tavares Effect. Auston and Naz have banner years feasting on second and third line matchups. Marner, Nylander and Kapanen their speedy skilled wingers.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: nutman on July 12, 2018, 04:24:30 PM
I hope Tavares at least stopped on his way off the ice and gave that kid an autograph.




Lmao...hahahahahaahahahahah... That had me on the floor laughing. Good one.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 13, 2018, 08:05:52 AM
I said before how those tax calculators that were going around probably weren't all that accurate since people like Tavares likely have very smart people looking after his money and getting paid quite a bit to make sure he's maximizing his returns, and this is a good article describing a couple ways he could do that:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/seanpackard/2018/07/06/john-tavares-could-save-nearly-12-million-in-taxes-on-his-new-contract/#6cd63ffe1ab7
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on July 13, 2018, 03:51:38 PM
Mike Babcock: "How many people from Ontario play in the National Hockey League? ... Once we
                       make it safe they're comin' home."
Bob McGown: "You really think people will WANT to play in Toronto..."
MB: "You got it... They don't right now..."
BM: "It's hard.."
MB: "Ohf.. it's REALLY Hard... Mark my words."

Real gud pro. A real big oppertoonidy here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahKj1BAj7Io
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 15, 2018, 09:52:30 PM
Islanders really not happy about Tavares leaving.  One of them penned a letter, messy break up style.

https://www.bardown.com/isles-fan-pens-letter-to-tavares-in-the-form-of-a-breakup-and-isles-nation-is-praising-the-accuracy-1.1139202

Those games in New York could get tense.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 15, 2018, 10:38:33 PM
Islanders really not happy about Tavares leaving.  One of them penned a letter, messy break up style.

https://www.bardown.com/isles-fan-pens-letter-to-tavares-in-the-form-of-a-breakup-and-isles-nation-is-praising-the-accuracy-1.1139202

Those games in New York could get tense.

That was quite the self-contradictory ramble.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 16, 2018, 12:12:19 AM
Islanders really not happy about Tavares leaving.  One of them penned a letter, messy break up style.

https://www.bardown.com/isles-fan-pens-letter-to-tavares-in-the-form-of-a-breakup-and-isles-nation-is-praising-the-accuracy-1.1139202

Those games in New York could get tense.

So...am I crazy or for all of the "Pyjama Boy" stuff isn't the picture Tavares tweeted out of him with a Maple Leafs bedset? There's a Leafs pillow case and bedsheet and duvet cover but he's under the cover isn't he? Where is the pyjama stuff coming from?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 16, 2018, 08:22:55 AM
Islanders really not happy about Tavares leaving.  One of them penned a letter, messy break up style.

https://www.bardown.com/isles-fan-pens-letter-to-tavares-in-the-form-of-a-breakup-and-isles-nation-is-praising-the-accuracy-1.1139202

Those games in New York could get tense.

So...am I crazy or for all of the "Pyjama Boy" stuff isn't the picture Tavares tweeted out of him with a Maple Leafs bedset? There's a Leafs pillow case and bedsheet and duvet cover but he's under the cover isn't he? Where is the pyjama stuff coming from?

I think that Islanders fans might be just a tad unhinged.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 16, 2018, 08:30:24 AM
Islanders really not happy about Tavares leaving.  One of them penned a letter, messy break up style.

https://www.bardown.com/isles-fan-pens-letter-to-tavares-in-the-form-of-a-breakup-and-isles-nation-is-praising-the-accuracy-1.1139202

Those games in New York could get tense.

So...am I crazy or for all of the "Pyjama Boy" stuff isn't the picture Tavares tweeted out of him with a Maple Leafs bedset? There's a Leafs pillow case and bedsheet and duvet cover but he's under the cover isn't he? Where is the pyjama stuff coming from?

I think that Islanders fans might be just a tad unhinged.

They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 16, 2018, 08:32:31 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on July 16, 2018, 09:03:39 AM
The fans vitriol should be directed at ownership and management, not Tavares.  The organisation has been clown shoes going back to the Mike Milbury days.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 16, 2018, 09:19:09 AM
The fans vitriol should be directed at ownership and management, not Tavares.  The organisation has been clown shoes going back to the Mike Milbury days.

I don't disagree with you.   However, Nik brought up the feelings directed toward Sundin when he left and they weren't all that dissimilar to what is being said now, minus the Canucks pajama's and such.  And in the Sundin case, that was totally a management decision, and most of the anger was directed toward him because he actually wanted to stay.  I've lived in Ottawa most of my life.  I have seen Heatly go (This was the worst.  When he came back fans put signs up in the stands that said "Warning, dangerous curve ahead", which is really tasteless in my opinion ), Alfie go, Spezza go, soon to be Karlsson.  In every case, there is a small contingent of the fan base that looks at it rationally, and then there is a large contingent that is absolutely over the top about player x not wanting to play for their team.  I think all fan bases are the same.  I would expect the same sort of vitriol from a large contingent of the Leafs fan base if Matthews was to leave for another team.  The problem, in my mind, is that fans can't separate their identity from that of the teams.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 16, 2018, 09:58:15 AM

As far as I can tell, the "reasons" for Islanders fans being mad at Tavares all sort of boil down to the idea that Tavares had secretly made up his mind long ago and engaged in a pattern of deceit in order to screw the Islanders out of getting something for him.

It is, quite honestly, ridiculously stupid. The "proof" of this is even stupider. Look at that letter again. Tavares tweeting out a picture of himself as a kid is "proof" that he'd made up his mind long before the Leafs even talked to him or made him an offer.

While it's true that a lot of the Leafs fan reaction to Sundin was also stupid, I don't think that mitigates this stupidity or means it shouldn't be called out as such. I had no problem at the time calling Leafs fans morons for thinking badly about Sundin and am happy to do the same here.

The problem isn't that fans can't separate their own identities from their team's, it's that a lot of fans are stupid and selfish.They're not loyal in any way to the players they purport to have affection for. Their relationship is entirely transactional. We care about these guys so long as they help the team, the second they don't they can get bent. What's more, they're expected to sublimate their own interest for the team's. Playing well over the course of their contract isn't enough, they need to leave in a way so that the team can extract every last ounce of value possible, regardless of how the player feels or what they want.

It's a case of fans being greedy, entitled jerks. Which, common though it may be sadly, still deserves being called out.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on July 16, 2018, 10:23:20 AM
While it's true that a lot of the Leafs fan reaction to Sundin was also stupid, I don't think that mitigates this stupidity or means it shouldn't be called out as such. I had no problem at the time calling Leafs fans morons for thinking badly about Sundin and am happy to do the same here.

Agreed with all parts, but this one section is a sore part for me. I was so frustrated by fans who felt that Sundin owed something to the team and should have sacrificed for the greater good and agreed to a trade.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 16, 2018, 10:29:07 AM
Props to the Leafs management at the time for spinning the situation with that 'Muskoka Five' tripe to ensure the highest performing players at the time took the brunt of the vitriol.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 16, 2018, 10:29:57 AM

As far as I can tell, the "reasons" for Islanders fans being mad at Tavares all sort of boil down to the idea that Tavares had secretly made up his mind long ago and engaged in a pattern of deceit in order to screw the Islanders out of getting something for him.

It is, quite honestly, ridiculously stupid. The "proof" of this is even stupider. Look at that letter again. Tavares tweeting out a picture of himself as a kid is "proof" that he'd made up his mind long before the Leafs even talked to him or made him an offer.

While it's true that a lot of the Leafs fan reaction to Sundin was also stupid, I don't think that mitigates this stupidity or means it shouldn't be called out as such. I had no problem at the time calling Leafs fans morons for thinking badly about Sundin and am happy to do the same here.

The problem isn't that fans can't separate their own identities from their team's, it's that a lot of fans are stupid and selfish.They're not loyal in any way to the players they purport to have affection for. Their relationship is entirely transactional. We care about these guys so long as they help the team, the second they don't they can get bent. What's more, they're expected to sublimate their own interest for the team's. Playing well over the course of their contract isn't enough, they need to leave in a way so that the team can extract every last ounce of value possible, regardless of how the player feels or what they want.

It's a case of fans being greedy, entitled jerks. Which, common though it may be sadly, still deserves being called out.

I agree totally.  I just felt the tone of the conversation was that this is a Islanders fan phenomenon and I believe it to be more of a standard fan phenomenon.  My point about fans separating their own identities from their teams is that there is no reason for the fan to be stupid and selfish if you can distance the things that are happening to the team from things that may be happening to you.  Tavares didn't leave the Islanders fans.  He left the Islanders organization.  Just because he left the organization that you cheer for doesn't mean he left you personally, so you shouldn't make it personal. 

At the end of the day, we can have differing opinions on why this phenomenon occurs, and there are probably a myriad of reasons, but really there is no justification for getting angry at an athlete  for exercising their contractual rights and choosing to play where they want to, when most of us would probably make a similar decision.

Take a situation where Matthews bolts when he is a UFA, for any reason.  First off, I can't really criticize him in this case because that would be hypocritical.  I can't be happy about Tavares coming because it works to the advantage of the team I am cheering for, and then be angry at a player that leaves because it works against them.  Secondly, I would probably miss seeing Matthews play more frequently.  He is a fun player to watch, and he contributes to a team winning, and those two things are probably linked, so in a way, with Matthews leaving, it would probably be less fun to watch the Leafs.  But again, that's not Matthews fault, so I am not about to get on the internet and scream about how he should be deported because of some sort of lineage in his nationality.  To me though, that's not being smart, that's just common sense.     
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 16, 2018, 10:36:47 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.   
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 16, 2018, 10:47:01 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.

You should probably find a Calgary thread online that tool place during the Phanuef trade.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 16, 2018, 10:47:25 AM
Take a situation where Matthews bolts when he is a UFA, for any reason.  First off, I can't really criticize him in this case because that would be hypocritical.  I can't be happy about Tavares coming because it works to the advantage of the team I am cheering for, and then be angry at a player that leaves because it works against them.  Secondly, I would probably miss seeing Matthews play more frequently.  He is a fun player to watch, and he contributes to a team winning, and those two things are probably linked, so in a way, with Matthews leaving, it would probably be less fun to watch the Leafs.  But again, that's not Matthews fault, so I am not about to get on the internet and scream about how he should be deported because of some sort of lineage in his nationality.  To me though, that's not being smart, that's just common sense.   

My response was as much to you as it was the really sort of ugly "yes, the reaction to Tavares is irrational but fans are allowed to be irrational" sort of thing I've seen in some places that I'd typically think were smarter than that.  Like you say, there are mature and reasonable ways to react to disappointment and we should encourage those when possible.

The one thing I'd say re: Matthews is that in almost all likelihood, if Matthews were to leave Toronto he'd almost certainly be leaving a better situation than Tavares is leaving. On-ice seems pretty certain, but arena-wise it is effectively a guarantee. What I think is sort of unique to the Islanders here is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of mitigation whatsoever for the situation the Islanders put him in. Despite all of the on-ice struggles and the terrible arena situation that's going to last another three years at least, Tavares seemed to be genuinely torn about leaving there and yet, somehow, in the eyes of a pretty vocal number of Islanders fans his reluctance to leave somehow makes him more of a jerk. That's what gets me.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 16, 2018, 10:53:27 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.

You should probably find a Calgary thread online that tool place during the Phanuef trade.

Why would Calgary have hated Phaneuf for a trade?  It's not like it was his choice to leave, he was dealt.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 16, 2018, 10:56:04 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.

You should probably find a Calgary thread online that tool place during the Phanuef trade.

Why would Calgary have hated Phaneuf for a trade?  It's not like it was his choice to leave, he was dealt.

Didn't people used to link to the Flames' HFboards thread about that trade and laugh at the Flames fans disgusted reactions as they learned about the return?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 16, 2018, 11:00:41 AM
Why would Calgary have hated Phaneuf for a trade?  It's not like it was his choice to leave, he was dealt.

Didn't people used to link to the Flames' HFboards thread about that trade and laugh at the Flames fans disgusted reactions as they learned about the return?

https://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=86158
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 16, 2018, 11:12:30 AM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.

You should probably find a Calgary thread online that tool place during the Phanuef trade.

Why would Calgary have hated Phaneuf for a trade?  It's not like it was his choice to leave, he was dealt.

Didn't people used to link to the Flames' HFboards thread about that trade and laugh at the Flames fans disgusted reactions as they learned about the return?

But those type of reactions would be directed at the team itself for not getting more of a return for Phaneuf, not like Phaneuf had any say whatsoever in the transaction.  The vitriol towards Tavares is to him alone, fans burning his jersey, calling him Judas Tavares, wishing his career would end on an injury, all sorts of vile and crass comments. 

When you get all that hate directed towards one person, and that person can be somewhat accessible during a game, you have to be worried that all it takes is one nutjob to do something really really stupid.  I still remember the incident way back when when Monica Seles was stabbed by a fan of Steffi Graf because she lost her #1 ranking to Seles. Extreme example but fanatics are fanatics.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on July 16, 2018, 11:13:57 AM
But those type of reactions would be directed at the team itself for not getting more of a return for Phaneuf, not like Phaneuf had any say whatsoever in the transaction.

Yes. I was agreeing with you.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: caveman on July 16, 2018, 11:30:02 AM
Props to the Leafs management at the time for spinning the situation with that 'Muskoka Five' tripe to ensure the highest performing players at the time took the brunt of the vitriol.

...and this brings us back to Babcock's statement about making it a safe place...
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: LuncheonMeat on July 16, 2018, 01:07:56 PM
The best part of that letter was: 'I have a special connection with this franchise that you will never understand.'  ???
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 16, 2018, 02:59:16 PM
They better have good security at that Feb game in NY (or wherever the hell the Islanders play), based on the vitriol I've seen online, I really worry something stupid might happen when Tavares goes back to play.

Yeah, things might get tense after he scores his 3rd goal and 5th point of the night.

Hey, it's NY, I wouldn't feel there was any issue if he played in say, Calgary all these years and moved to Toronto, but people can be fairly crazy down in the U.S.  I'm just saying I hope that after a few months the crazies have let go of their hatred and the worst that happens is he gets constantly booed when he touches the puck.

You should probably find a Calgary thread online that tool place during the Phanuef trade.

Why would Calgary have hated Phaneuf for a trade?  It's not like it was his choice to leave, he was dealt.

Didn't people used to link to the Flames' HFboards thread about that trade and laugh at the Flames fans disgusted reactions as they learned about the return?

Ah, I must have gotten that confused somewhere.  I thought I remember fans posting stuff about how he was useless, and a cancer in the dressing room and things along those lines.  It seemed irrational towards a player being traded to say these things about him when it wasn't even really his fault that he was being moved along.   
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 17, 2018, 09:11:12 AM
The best part of that letter was: 'I have a special connection with this franchise that you will never understand.'  ???

The sad thing is the letter was penned by some old guy (I assume he's old since he knows Butch Goring).  You would think with age comes perspective and a certain level headedness but alas.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 18, 2018, 04:04:17 AM
Lindros high on Tavares' signing with Leafs:

Quote
"I think it's fantastic for anybody who roots for the Toronto Maple Leafs," Lindros, who grew up in Toronto and played for the Maple Leafs, told TSN on Monday. "You look at the lineup they already had and you bring in a stud like John Tavares ... he's the real deal. It's going to be linteresting."

"You're going to have him going up against on the road, the checking line," Lindros said. "Auston Matthews isn't going to have to face it anymore, or vice versa. And [center Nazem] Kadri is on the third line. You've got a real good one-two-three punch there."


https://www.tsn.ca/video/lindros-on-tavares-signing-great-for-anyone-who-roots-for-the-leafs~1439690 (https://www.tsn.ca/video/lindros-on-tavares-signing-great-for-anyone-who-roots-for-the-leafs~1439690)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 18, 2018, 08:57:26 AM
Anybody worried that a guy like Clutterbuck may take a run at Tavares just to prove a point?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 18, 2018, 09:33:31 AM
I think there is a general respect that few violate. Heat of the moment aside.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 18, 2018, 09:35:04 AM
I think there is a general respect that few violate. Heat of the moment aside.

Yeah, Tavares still has a lot of friends in that Islanders dressing room, Clutterbuck included probably. I can't see anybody deliberately attempting to injure him just because he left. They'll play him hard and of course finish their checks, but there's still a line that they won't cross.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on July 18, 2018, 12:53:54 PM
Anybody worried that a guy like Clutterbuck may take a run at Tavares just to prove a point?

Nah, I'm more worried about some nut in the crowd than anyone on the ice.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 18, 2018, 02:33:55 PM
Anybody worried that a guy like Clutterbuck may take a run at Tavares just to prove a point?

Nah, I'm more worried about some nut in the crowd than anyone on the ice.

I was just thinking of the crowd being fired up, lots of booing, lots of adrenaline.  Islanders want to make a statement, and someone crosses the line.  He probably does have a bunch of friends on the team still, and it's not like anybody on the Islanders is Gudas level. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on July 18, 2018, 07:01:03 PM
Anybody worried that a guy like Clutterbuck may take a run at Tavares just to prove a point?

Nah, I'm more worried about some nut in the crowd than anyone on the ice.

I was just thinking of the crowd being fired up, lots of booing, lots of adrenaline.  Islanders want to make a statement, and someone crosses the line.  He probably does have a bunch of friends on the team still, and it's not like anybody on the Islanders is Gudas level. 


The players will get caught up with the emotions displayed by their fans, but I doubt they (Islanders) will want to butcher Tavares, so to speak. 

Play competitively, yes.  Play to injure him, no.  Of course, that said, it doesn't mean that Tavares will be able to waltz in there, by far and wide he'll have it tough which will include a sprinkling of animosity on the part of some of the Islanders faithful, and a sprinkling of applause from the more sensible and sober-minded Islander fans. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on July 24, 2018, 09:31:14 AM
https://editorinleaf.com/2018/07/24/toronto-maple-leafs-islanders/ (https://editorinleaf.com/2018/07/24/toronto-maple-leafs-islanders/)

Ridiculous article about how Toronto is not sorry about getting Tavares because of a game in 2007 between NJ and NYI that eliminated the Leafs from the playoffs. If NYI got less then 2 points the Leafs were in the playoffs but they won in a shootout.

I was at a Raptors game that day and watched the end of the game with a bunch of other Leaf fans in the ACC on our way out after the basketball game. Madden scores twice in the last 5 minutes to tie the game, nothing happens in OT, and NYI goalie goes poke check on both NJ shooters and NYI wins. Meaningless game to NJ but I was pissed, I thought it was obvious he was going to poke check again but the second NJ shooter got poke checked anyway. Still a vivid memory. The pain of a TML fan is real.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 24, 2018, 10:16:36 AM
I remember that game. We were at my Grandma's. The whole family watched it. I was more mad at the Devils than Isles.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on August 11, 2018, 02:42:56 PM
Just all of Tavares' 2017-18 goals
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvddCIgbtJQ

There are a lot of similarities in Tavares' game to the way Matthews scores from anywhere in front of the net, any which way he can. Matthews has a bit more flash and sizzle, while Tavares is more simple and... assertive? I can see how a Hyman - Tavares - Marner line would work quite well: Hyman has a knack for causing chaos, Marner has a a knack for threading passes through a chaos, and Tavares has a knack for finding the net in chaos.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on August 14, 2018, 10:30:37 PM
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 15, 2018, 08:59:04 AM
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens. 

Kadri-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on August 15, 2018, 10:28:08 AM
HOLY CRAP TAVARES IS A LEAF!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on August 15, 2018, 12:49:22 PM
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens.

We might see a more skewed version of last season, where certain lines were leaned on for certain roles. In particular I'm talking about score effects on TOI (and thus production).

When we were leading: Kadri and 4th line got lots of minutes (woo! another empty for Marleau). When we were chasing, Matthews and Bozak lines got all the shifts. Last season, we led a lot.

This season, I think we will be leading very often. Without Babcock's usual stalwarts of gudness to deploy, we'll see a lot of Kadri and Tavares I think (or Tavares and Lindholm/4C).
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on August 15, 2018, 12:53:43 PM
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens. 

Kadri-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander

We're winning the Stanley Cup this year, aren't we?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on August 15, 2018, 02:20:45 PM
We better before I croak
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 15, 2018, 05:06:36 PM
We better before I croak
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens. 

Kadri-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander

We're winning the Stanley Cup this year, aren't we?


..and that's why I've started planning my parade route.  :D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on August 16, 2018, 09:46:36 AM
We better before I croak
There is a downside to signing Tavares that I did not consider. 

At some point throughout the season I will be torn between whether I want Babcock to put Nylander, Matthews and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens or to put Nylander, Tavares, and Marner together for multiple shifts to see what happens. 

Kadri-Matthews-Marner
Tavares-Nylander

We're winning the Stanley Cup this year, aren't we?


..and that's why I've started planning my parade route.  :D
Saturday, June 15, 2019 will be the parade date, book it! A birthday outing for my daughter. I will see you all there.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 12, 2018, 09:55:32 AM

More and more and more convinced that Tavares would have stayed with the Islanders if they didn't replace Snow with Lou.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on September 12, 2018, 09:56:29 AM
https://theathletic.com/497044/2018/09/12/family-ties-how-john-tavares-became-the-man-and-player-he-is-today/

Big profile piece on hometown Maple Leaf, John Tavares.

Big lols to anyone who thinks Tavares will be sour about Matthews getting the C.
Quote
ďHeís one of those guys that if youíre around him enough, you realize what the word Ďprofessionalismí is,Ē former Islanders head coach Jack Capuano said. ďHe was obviously brought up the right way Ė he understands values of life, he understands the importance of family and team. Thereís no ĎIí or Ďmeí in John.Ē

Capuano saw it firsthand when he was fired from the Islanders in early 2017. Tavares had only 32 points in 42 games to that point for a last-place New York squad. He was first to call.

ďItís a phone call that I wonít forget because, again, as I was talking to this young man I felt like I was talking to a 40-plus-year-old lawyer,Ē Capuano said. ďHe took all the responsibility of being a .500 team ó that he wasnít good enough.

He also nearly Happy Gilmore'd Sam Gagner as a kid, which is... yikes.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on September 12, 2018, 10:16:19 AM

More and more and more convinced that Tavares would have stayed with the Islanders if they didn't replace Snow with Lou.

Snark aside, Lou's right.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on September 12, 2018, 10:18:36 AM

More and more and more convinced that Tavares would have stayed with the Islanders if they didn't replace Snow with Lou.
Yes, the Islanders have been a dumpster fire. Yes, I wish Tavares had more playoff experience.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 12, 2018, 10:18:57 AM
Snark aside, Lou's right.

Sure. Remember how none of us really like Mats Sundin?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on September 12, 2018, 10:25:36 AM
Snark aside, Lou's right.

Sure. Remember how none of us really like Mats Sundin?
Sundin played a lot more playoff games then Tavares. Although I liked Sundin, I always resented how little the Sundin lead squad actually accomplished. Winning means something on a resume.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on September 12, 2018, 10:33:04 AM
Snark aside, Lou's right.

Sure. Remember how none of us really like Mats Sundin?

Who? Do you mean Sandin? 8)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on September 12, 2018, 10:33:40 AM
He also nearly Happy Gilmore'd Sam Gagner as a kid, which is... yikes.

Don't have The Athletic, did Tavares try to stab Gagner with his skate?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 12, 2018, 10:35:43 AM
Sundin played a lot more playoff games then Tavares. Although I liked Sundin, I always resented how little the Sundin lead squad actually accomplished. Winning means something on a resume.

Leaving aside that I disagree with all of that Lamoriello, who hasn't won a playoff series in years and has been on Long Island for all of 15 minutes, probably isn't the best guy to measure Tavares' impact on the franchise either.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on September 12, 2018, 10:36:23 AM
He also nearly Happy Gilmore'd Sam Gagner as a kid, which is... yikes.

Don't have The Athletic, did Tavares try to stab Gagner with his skate?

You're on the right track.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Rob on September 12, 2018, 10:36:38 AM
Right.  The entire problem of the Leafs during the Sundin years was Sundin being a bum.  Just like Tavares didn't accomplish anything in Long Island, because he is a bum. 

Both equally bums. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: caveman on September 12, 2018, 11:53:03 AM
Sundin played a lot more playoff games then Tavares. Although I liked Sundin, I always resented how little the Sundin lead squad actually accomplished. Winning means something on a resume.

Leaving aside that I disagree with all of that Lamoriello, who hasn't won a playoff series in years and has been on Long Island for all of 15 minutes, probably isn't the best guy to measure Tavares' impact on the franchise either.

and this will play out when the season starts...Lou's record as GM of the Islanders will speak for itself...
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Goaliedave31 on September 12, 2018, 11:54:58 AM
Snark aside, Lou's right.

Sure. Remember how none of us really like Mats Sundin?
Sundin played a lot more playoff games then Tavares. Although I liked Sundin, I always resented how little the Sundin lead squad actually accomplished. Winning means something on a resume.
Have never understood the thinking that players are less great if they haven't won a Cup. Look at everyone that is a hall of famer that has also won a Cup(s). Would Gordie Howe's career be seen as a failure if he hadn't won with those great teams he was on in the early 50s? From 1955 to the end of his career he never won another one. Why? He didn't have the supporting cast. Just like Sundin and,so far, Tavares. Can you name a player that has single handedly won his team a Cup? Of course not.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on September 12, 2018, 12:03:00 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: TimKerr on September 12, 2018, 12:06:33 PM
Snark aside, Lou's right.

Sure. Remember how none of us really like Mats Sundin?
Sundin played a lot more playoff games then Tavares. Although I liked Sundin, I always resented how little the Sundin lead squad actually accomplished. Winning means something on a resume.
Have never understood the thinking that players are less great if they haven't won a Cup. Look at everyone that is a hall of famer that has also won a Cup(s). Would Gordie Howe's career be seen as a failure if he hadn't won with those great teams he was on in the early 50s? From 1955 to the end of his career he never won another one. Why? He didn't have the supporting cast. Just like Sundin and,so far, Tavares. Can you name a player that has single handedly won his team a Cup? Of course not.

Patrick Roy in '86 but other than that I 100% agree with you.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on September 12, 2018, 01:19:10 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Welcome Goaliedave31, wish we had more fresh blood on this board.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 13, 2018, 03:36:00 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Welcome Goaliedave31, wish we had more fresh blood on this board.

WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE GOALIEDAVE31. Highlander and Carleton were the two gentlemen that welcomed me here a few years ago on post #1. I perpetuate the cycle. A fine season indeed to be a Buds Booster. The talk these days is our young superstars and their contracts, a far cry from discussing the merits of having Clarke Wilm in the lineup ;)

Also, a fricking TIM KERR sighting.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 13, 2018, 04:12:43 PM
Patrick Roy in '86 but other than that I 100% agree with you.

Chris Chelios
Larry Robinson
Bob Gainey
Bobby Smith
Guy Carboneau
Mats Naslund
Mike McPhee

Yes Roy was fantastic in the playoffs but that's a pretty good collection of players
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: TimKerr on September 13, 2018, 05:32:52 PM
Patrick Roy in '86 but other than that I 100% agree with you.

Chris Chelios
Larry Robinson
Bob Gainey
Bobby Smith
Guy Carboneau
Mats Naslund
Mike McPhee

Yes Roy was fantastic in the playoffs but that's a pretty good collection of players

How about '93 the? Come on throw me a bone here
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Goaliedave31 on September 13, 2018, 06:30:11 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Thank you Herman. I truly enjoy your contributions here.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Goaliedave31 on September 13, 2018, 06:31:01 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Welcome Goaliedave31, wish we had more fresh blood on this board.
Thanks Highlander from, I assume, a fellow Scot!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Goaliedave31 on September 13, 2018, 06:40:28 PM
Patrick Roy in '86 but other than that I 100% agree with you.

Chris Chelios
Larry Robinson
Bob Gainey
Bobby Smith
Guy Carboneau
Mats Naslund
Mike McPhee

Yes Roy was fantastic in the playoffs but that's a pretty good collection of players

How about '93 the? Come on throw me a bone here
The 93 Habs were about equal to the 93 Leafs. Strong team with better goaltending. Roy was good but still had a decent team to play behind.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on September 13, 2018, 08:11:41 PM
Welcome Goaliedave31!
Welcome Goaliedave31, wish we had more fresh blood on this board.
Thanks Highlander from, I assume, a fellow Scot!
"Och aye"
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 14, 2018, 02:26:59 AM
Ah, we have a new poster -- "Welcome to the boreds... :D er, boards, Goaliedave31!"  :)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 14, 2018, 02:52:54 PM

JT beats AM in opening faceoff of scrimmage. 1C confirmed.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 19, 2018, 03:25:50 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Johnny Toronto looks frickin' beautiful in the Royal Blue & White.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmDaSfQpx44
The Dermottologist is on record as saying JT's hands in tight are "elite".

Just a reminder, Leafs are rolling TWO #1 lines ALL SEASON LONG :D
1A) Marleau-Matthews-Nylander.
1B) Hyman-Tavares-Marner.

Marc Savard on Tavares & Marner:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/sportsnet-starting-lineup/tavares-marner-look-like-match-made-heaven/

Fun Fact: Hyman-Tavares-Marner can be the GTA line. All three hail from the Greater Toronto Area.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 20, 2018, 02:51:18 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Johnny Toronto looks frickin' beautiful in the Royal Blue & White.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmDaSfQpx44 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmDaSfQpx44)
The Dermottologist is on record as saying JT's hands in tight are "elite".

Just a reminder, Leafs are rolling TWO #1 lines ALL SEASON LONG :D
1A) Marleau-Matthews-Nylander.
1B) Hyman-Tavares-Marner.

Marc Savard on Tavares & Marner:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/sportsnet-starting-lineup/tavares-marner-look-like-match-made-heaven/ (https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/sportsnet-starting-lineup/tavares-marner-look-like-match-made-heaven/)

Fun Fact: Hyman-Tavares-Marner can be the GTA line. All three hail from the Greater Toronto Area.


Both lines will be magical, but as I like to say, moreso perhaps Tavares/Marner.  Something about these two -- both their styles -- complement each other so well.  They're unique yet they blended from the get go.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 20, 2018, 03:48:22 PM
Scotty Bowman on PTS talks Leafs:
https://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/sept-19-scotty-bowman-on-the-new-look-leafs/

Interesting point, Matt Moulson and Kyle Okposo got nice contracts after Tavares setting them up for 30-35 goal seasons. His wingers have gotta be salivating.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 22, 2018, 01:00:38 PM
Breakout: D to Tavares to Marner with speed, gains line drop-pass to Lillypad one-timer for rebound to JT under the bar :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v21ZzVCvz-0
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bullfrog on September 22, 2018, 02:19:00 PM
It's awkward explaining to my wife why I'm weeping every night.

I just blame it on depression, but it's secretly because I can't emotionally handle that we're going to witness the first 82-0 season ever.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 25, 2018, 09:12:48 AM

The Montreal press doesn't handle rejection well:

Why Tavares didnít meet with Canadiens: ĎI can only play for one teamí (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tavares-didnt-meet-canadiens-can-play-one-team/)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on September 25, 2018, 09:39:30 AM

The Montreal press doesn't handle rejection well:

Why Tavares didnít meet with Canadiens: ĎI can only play for one teamí (https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tavares-didnt-meet-canadiens-can-play-one-team/)

Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on September 25, 2018, 10:27:05 AM
I know when choosing a team to play for that I would pick the rival of the team I grew up cheering who has a closed window on contention and likely will have 3-4 years of being prevented from truly being awful enough to have a quick rebuild because their goaltender (if healthy) is too good.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on September 25, 2018, 10:52:48 AM
I know when choosing a team to play for that I would pick the rival of the team I grew up cheering who has a closed window on contention and likely will have 3-4 years of being prevented from truly being awful enough to have a quick rebuild because their goaltender (if healthy) is too good.
Total non-story but I do remember being personally insulted when Rick Nash resigned in CLB.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 25, 2018, 01:22:52 PM
I really don't understand how anyone is personally insulted when someone signs for another team. I mean, I guess I could see that a fan might be a bit pissed off, but to be personally insulted seems like an entirely other level
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bates on September 25, 2018, 01:59:34 PM
Minor difference with Nash being from Ontario.
I know when choosing a team to play for that I would pick the rival of the team I grew up cheering who has a closed window on contention and likely will have 3-4 years of being prevented from truly being awful enough to have a quick rebuild because their goaltender (if healthy) is too good.
Total non-story but I do remember being personally insulted when Rick Nash resigned in CLB.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on September 25, 2018, 02:56:04 PM
I really don't understand how anyone is personally insulted when someone signs for another team. I mean, I guess I could see that a fan might be a bit pissed off, but to be personally insulted seems like an entirely other level
I was not being serious.

Just implying that there is a lot of homers out there that try to will something into reality and when it doesn't come to fruition they're left disappointed and sometimes pissed off. How long was our Stamkos thread?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 25, 2018, 04:39:52 PM
I really don't understand how anyone is personally insulted when someone signs for another team. I mean, I guess I could see that a fan might be a bit pissed off, but to be personally insulted seems like an entirely other level
I was not being serious.

Just implying that there is a lot of homers out there that try to will something into reality and when it doesn't come to fruition they're left disappointed and sometimes pissed off. How long was our Stamkos thread?

I do know quite a few Hab fans that wrote Vincent Lecavalier off once he resigned with Tampa instead of going to Montreal
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on October 04, 2018, 02:49:07 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 12, 2018, 11:05:12 AM
Tavares is off to his best career start -- ten points in the first five games this month.

Quote
"It was a ďspecial thingĒ to be a Leaf, he said. ďI think I just appreciate it,Ē Tavares went on. ďI donít always pinch myself, although thereís definitely been moments.Ē

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on October 12, 2018, 02:52:05 PM
Nine seconds into it Johnny Toronto in his office between the legs to Awesome Matthews. Red Light.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Matthew- on October 15, 2018, 03:00:13 AM
I haven't been active here on tmlfans since probably the 07-08 season.   Had to remake my account because I had completely forgotten all my information.    Reading through this entire thread,  I feel all the feels! all of them!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on October 15, 2018, 03:37:06 AM
I haven't been active here on tmlfans since probably the 07-08 season.   Had to remake my account because I had completely forgotten all my information.    Reading through this entire thread,  I feel all the feels! all of them!


That's great and welcome back!  :)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on October 15, 2018, 01:40:29 PM
I haven't been active here on tmlfans since probably the 07-08 season.   Had to remake my account because I had completely forgotten all my information.    Reading through this entire thread,  I feel all the feels! all of them!

Welcome back. We're... having fun.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on October 15, 2018, 02:39:04 PM
Welcome Back
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on October 19, 2018, 02:34:41 PM
Tavares: can do this cuz John Tavares.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on October 19, 2018, 05:53:04 PM
Sick move for sure.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on November 05, 2018, 02:02:01 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/john-tavares-toronto-marlies-dynasty-profile/

Quote
Naylor had a clearer view from the bench and doesnít fall back on the clichťs about character and the like ó excellence is the residue of hard work, etc. ďJohn had a great work ethic but Iíve seen that with a lot of kids over the years,Ē he says. ďOther things, though, made him unique. He had an ability to get to the net, through traffic, that was probably something that carried over from playing lacrosse. He always had great ability to anticipate the play. Every game thereíd be at least a couple of times when Iíd wonder how he got so wide open for a scoring chance. You see that with [Alexander] Ovechkin and it really jumps out, that type of hockey sense. Itís rare [even] with stars in the NHL but John had that at age 12. Thatís not stuff that comes with hard work. Thatís just vision and awareness and the ability to process the game so much faster than everyone else.Ē

Also of note, a lot of Tavares' off-ice time was spent on Sam Gagner's backyard rink, which was only large enough for 3-on-3, i.e. consider Auston Matthews' development on half-sheets in Arizona where he had to learn to battle for his space and handle the puck in traffic. Tavares and Matthews are the types of centres that can score from just about anywhere in nearly any conceivable fashion, and usually do it right in the eye of the chaos on top of the crease.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on January 11, 2019, 01:39:38 PM
"Yeah... imma just tip this, sweep this and backhand this."

Johnny Toronto on pace to surpass Vaive/Andreychuk/Leeman.
Mitchy's hockey IQ/passing/terrorizing simply yuge part of it :)
And props to Hymie's digging, it's just a superb line.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on January 11, 2019, 02:02:55 PM
I agree with Jeff Blair... that's why I was recommending possibly breaking up the duo to spread the wealth around a bit since no one else is going right now.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Dappleganger on January 11, 2019, 02:31:14 PM
I think more than his current line mates, this is the first time in John's career where his line isn't the only line that can be dominant. For his entire career that game plan was simple, top unit shut down Tavares.

With the Leafs this year, you have to make a choice, go after Matthews line or Tavares line. I think that makes a difference as well.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 11, 2019, 05:08:44 PM
I think more than his current line mates, this is the first time in John's career where his line isn't the only line that can be dominant. For his entire career that game plan was simple, top unit shut down Tavares.

With the Leafs this year, you have to make a choice, go after Matthews line or Tavares line. I think that makes a difference as well.

Agreed. I don't agree with Blair. This isn't just the Marner show. JT and Marner are helping each other reach these numbers. JT creates a lot of space for Mitch because he's a threat on his own. I said it before, anyone here think Marner gets these numbers with Marleau and Kadri? Not a chance.
Now add in Matthews who does still gets a heavy dose of the other teams #1 and it all helps. Don't take it wrong, I'm not saying anything negative about Marner but it's far from what Blair and some in the media suggest.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frycer14 on January 12, 2019, 10:27:03 AM
It would be interesting to see where the leafs would be in the standings if JT hadn't signed.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 12, 2019, 01:12:24 PM
It would be interesting to see where the leafs would be in the standings if JT hadn't signed.
It certainly would. I'm betting a lot further down the standings considering we were missing Nylander and Matthews for significant time together. We may be outside the playoffs right now. I don't think people are giving him the credit he deserves and the impact he's had on this team.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on February 10, 2019, 01:00:14 PM
Dynamic Duo. Mitchy is aware of him the entire time. Those edges and that backhand 8)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on February 20, 2019, 10:52:00 AM
JT is the Cerebral Assassin.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 20, 2019, 10:54:23 AM
We're just over a week away from the JT game back in NY.  That is going to be a hostile, crazy environment.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 26, 2019, 11:51:48 AM

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjJSq2s9xznhO80/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2019, 11:56:17 AM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 26, 2019, 12:44:47 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

There are no rules. Just make that thread now and delete my post :)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2019, 01:12:37 PM
I sincerely hope Tavares is wearing kevlar protection under his uniform on Thursday
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: louisstamos on February 26, 2019, 01:43:05 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

I'm looking at the comments, and the full version is THREE MINUTES LONG!?!?

I haven't watched it yet, so I'll try and hold off until Thursday, but no promises. :P
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 26, 2019, 01:55:17 PM
I sincerely hope Tavares is wearing kevlar protection under his uniform on Thursday
I hope the Leafs win 6-0 and JT scores 6 goals and the NY crowd litters the ice with JT jerseys!!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2019, 03:23:30 PM
I sincerely hope Tavares is wearing kevlar protection under his uniform on Thursday
I hope the Leafs win 6-0 and JT scores 6 goals and the NY crowd litters the ice with JT jerseys!!

The game could get ugly from a Leafs perspective:

1. Back to back game
2. Third game in four nights
3. Isles rested and extra pumped due to crowd hostility

I pretty much think the Islanders will be extra motivated, energized by the crowd and the Leafs will be swarmed and lose badly.  On the flip side, the Islanders play the Caps the following night and will lose badly because of the emotional let down after the Leafs game.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Michael on February 26, 2019, 03:25:12 PM
The game could get ugly from a Leafs perspective:

1. Back to back game
2. Third game in four nights
3. Isles rested and extra pumped due to crowd hostility

I pretty much think the Islanders will be extra motivated, energized by the crowd and the Leafs will be swarmed and lose badly.  On the flip side, the Islanders play the Caps the following night and will lose badly because of the emotional let down after the Leafs game.

4. Sparks in net.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
I wonder if the Leafs reverse their goalie schedule for this back to back so Andersen gets the Islanders.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2019, 03:54:32 PM

The replies to this tweet are incredible.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Nik Bethune on February 26, 2019, 03:57:05 PM

Eh, I'd be more critical if we hadn't just seen basically our own versions of it with Nylander and Matthews.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 26, 2019, 04:11:41 PM
As if the Leafs fans don't know how this feels.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2019, 04:13:54 PM
So why give them the bait?  Just scratch him at the last minute.  The fans would be so incensed that they would literally set off a cosmic black-hole reaction and disappear beyond the Event Horizon.  Poof.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on February 26, 2019, 04:18:18 PM
As if the Leafs fans don't know how this feels.

Sundin was also treated like crap down the stretch  because Fletcher had a hissy fit when people refused to waive their no-trade clauses.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2019, 04:32:08 PM
As if the Leafs fans don't know how this feels.

Sundin was also treated like crap down the stretch  because Fletcher had a hissy fit when people refused to waive their no-trade clauses.
Screw the Muskoka 5! The whole lot of them!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 26, 2019, 04:42:58 PM
Obviously, how the situation is branded in the media really colours the perception of the crowd that prefers to be told how to feel.

So players making the life choices that are best for themselves and their families is that is well within their right is worthy of ad hominem vilification.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2019, 04:51:34 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

Ok, sorry, it doesn't look like they're going to post the full 3:22 video on twitter, so there won't be a way to embed it into a post. So feel free to give their site the clicks they obviously desperately need and view it in its glorious entirety here: http://longisland.news12.com/story/40011194/dear-john

edit: omg they also have even longer, unedited versions of what all the fans said lower down.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2019, 07:17:08 PM
I think the Leafs should be loaded with extra specialized security for this visit. There are just too many crackpots with guns and worse out there. Gotta protect our boys.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: lamajama on February 26, 2019, 10:41:59 PM
His teammates need to play a damn good game right from the faceoff and stomp the Isles. That will shut up those losers.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 26, 2019, 11:43:16 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

Ok, sorry, it doesn't look like they're going to post the full 3:22 video on twitter, so there won't be a way to embed it into a post. So feel free to give their site the clicks they obviously desperately need and view it in its glorious entirety here: http://longisland.news12.com/story/40011194/dear-john

edit: omg they also have even longer, unedited versions of what all the fans said lower down.


Click dodge here. Not sure which version it is because I didnít go to the original site.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: KGB on February 27, 2019, 11:19:30 AM
Where do you even start with this?  Not only did these people say these things to a camera, with a straight face, but multiple other people took the time to edit this down and publish it without once thinking to themselves, "is this going to make anyone of us look good?"  Jesus wept.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 27, 2019, 02:08:00 PM
Meh, I originally thought there might be serious issues during the first game back but I've come around the other side now and think it'll just be loud booing, maybe some jerseys tossed but nothing dangerous.  There's already a backlash against that idiotic video by other Islanders fans saying how it makes them look extremely foolish.  I think they'll get through the game and everyone will move on.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on February 27, 2019, 02:48:15 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

Lol.

NOBODY RESPOND TO THIS NEW THREAD I STARTED !!

Anyone been around this board long enough to remember a member posting something like this? It must have been close to 10 years ago now. Needless to say hilarity ensued!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on February 27, 2019, 03:50:11 PM

Tavares has 66 of the 140.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 27, 2019, 04:25:02 PM
Leafs fans should still make a "Dear Leo" video complaining how he stabbed us in the heart for signing as a UFA in Long Island.  He was the chosen one.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: louisstamos on February 27, 2019, 04:40:46 PM
Leafs fans should still make a "Dear Leo" video complaining how he stabbed us in the heart for signing as a UFA in Long Island.  He was the chosen one.

"You were an All-Star with the Leafs!"
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on February 27, 2019, 05:03:15 PM
Leafs fans should still make a "Dear Leo" video complaining how he stabbed us in the heart for signing as a UFA in Long Island.  He was the chosen one.

"You were an All-Star with the Leafs!"


Would make a hilarious parody video of that Islanders crap. Someone with ambition should do it complete with Leafs fan girl with blue and white lipstick and dartguy
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Frank E on February 27, 2019, 05:47:58 PM
Goddamnit, this was going to be my entire GDT on Thursday.

edit: NOBODY POST OR LOOK AT THE ENTIRE VIDEO UNTIL THURSDAY

Lol.

NOBODY RESPOND TO THIS NEW THREAD I STARTED !!

Anyone been around this board long enough to remember a member posting something like this? It must have been close to 10 years ago now. Needless to say hilarity ensued!

I kind of remember that...does anyone with a way better memory than ours remember who that was?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2019, 10:01:00 PM
I kind of remember that...does anyone with a way better memory than ours remember who that was?

I don't remember the name, but it was a predictions thread with a bunch of out-there ones.

For some reason I also feel like it was the NOT SO MUCH guy.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on March 02, 2019, 01:04:36 AM
Not a fan of Avery's but this video made me laugh. Warning, it's laced with profanities..enjoy.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/sean-avery-goes-off-on-islanders-fans-for-their-antics-last-night
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 02, 2019, 09:08:20 AM
Not a fan of Avery's but this video made me laugh. Warning, it's laced with profanities..enjoy.
https://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/sean-avery-goes-off-on-islanders-fans-for-their-antics-last-night


I love the disgust in his voice
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on March 02, 2019, 09:28:26 AM
If anything, Islander fans have proven that he completely made the right choice.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on March 02, 2019, 01:35:12 PM
LOL I read it in his interview-answering voice. And "crucial" is definitely in JT's regular vocabulary ;D
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Guilt Trip on March 02, 2019, 02:50:03 PM
I hope Leafs fans chant some good things tonight for JT.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on March 03, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
He said he had wanted to skate to center ice to salute the fans at Nassau but after the drowning out of the video tribute... just made it a couple steps.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Peter D. on March 04, 2019, 09:24:26 AM
Not going to lie...I thought leaving Tavares alone at the blue line for an ovation the other night was super cheesy. 
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 04, 2019, 09:31:54 AM
Not going to lie...I thought leaving Tavares alone at the blue line for an ovation the other night was super cheesy.

Yeah it was a bit over the top with all the JohnTavaresTO day stuff. If it was something that just happened organically with all the fans cheering him before the game that's one thing, but it seems setup and phony to "respond" to the Islanders game.  Ah well, this too shall pass.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 04, 2019, 09:55:08 AM
I was fine with it. We might call Tavares a robot but there's no way being boo'd mercilessly by 13,000 people for 3 hours straight wouldn't have effected him negatively in some way. Especially given how the actual game went. I think the fact that they didn't even let up during the tribute video, which is usually always a huge moment for a returning player, would have hurt. Maybe it was cheesy but lots of cheesy gestures are still appreciated by the person it's directed to.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bill_Berg on March 04, 2019, 11:03:46 AM
Meh cheesy or not, it was a nice gesture and I'm sure it boosted jersey sales. Every piece of this saga has been entertaining.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 04, 2019, 11:04:51 AM
Meh cheesy or not, it was a nice gesture and I'm sure it boosted jersey sales. Every piece of this saga has been entertaining.

The only proper way to end this saga is Leafs winning the Cup this season and Tavares decides to bring the Cup to Long Island to celebrate.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on March 04, 2019, 01:20:03 PM
Meh cheesy or not, it was a nice gesture and I'm sure it boosted jersey sales. Every piece of this saga has been entertaining.

The only proper way to end this saga is Leafs winning the Cup this season and Tavares decides to bring the Cup to Long Island to celebrate.
That, and also signing UFA Mat Barzal in a few years.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Deebo on March 04, 2019, 01:26:01 PM
Meh cheesy or not, it was a nice gesture and I'm sure it boosted jersey sales. Every piece of this saga has been entertaining.

The only proper way to end this saga is Leafs winning the Cup this season and Tavares decides to bring the Cup to Long Island to celebrate.
That, and also signing UFA Mat Barzal in a few years.

Oh, you mean that kid who won the Calder?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Bill_Berg on March 04, 2019, 01:28:47 PM
Meh cheesy or not, it was a nice gesture and I'm sure it boosted jersey sales. Every piece of this saga has been entertaining.

The only proper way to end this saga is Leafs winning the Cup this season and Tavares decides to bring the Cup to Long Island to celebrate.
That, and also signing UFA Mat Barzal in a few years.

Oh, you mean that kid who won the Calder?

How rude!
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: cabber24 on March 04, 2019, 04:43:51 PM
Obviously, there were some low brow chants hurled Tavares' way but holy cow the NYI fans were into that game. They were loud! I kind of found it hilarious that not only did they boo him but they detested him. It was so over the top it was comical. It was like it was more of a spectacle and not really about hating him?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 04, 2019, 06:01:11 PM
Obviously, there were some low brow chants hurled Tavares' way but holy cow the NYI fans were into that game. They were loud! I kind of found it hilarious that not only did they boo him but they detested him. It was so over the top it was comical. It was like it was more of a spectacle and not really about hating him?
Yeah it was a bit much. Will they be this upset if Anders Lee signs with another team this July 1st or are you only allowed to go batshit insane for true superstar players leaving?
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on March 05, 2019, 04:49:14 AM
Obviously, there were some low brow chants hurled Tavares' way but holy cow the NYI fans were into that game. They were loud! I kind of found it hilarious that not only did they boo him but they detested him. It was so over the top it was comical. It was like it was more of a spectacle and not really about hating him?
Yeah it was a bit much. Will they be this upset if Anders Lee signs with another team this July 1st or are you only allowed to go batshit insane for true superstar players leaving?


I felt horrible what happened that night against Tavares and utterly embarrassed by those catcalling idiots masquerading as Ďpassionateí fans.

Should have remembered what my late brother once told me.  He was no Islander fan as I was (and still am somewhat), but he pointed out that he had read that Islanders fans were labelled as among the most ďobnoxiousĒ in the league.  Not to be confused with the old Phillyís Broad Street Bullies fans of yesteryear nor with the bottle-smashing in stand fighting Bruins fans of another era.  Isles fans were in a class of their own.

Judging by what happened on this night and what was levelled at Tavares, I would have to agree.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on March 21, 2019, 02:33:20 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on March 21, 2019, 02:42:25 PM
Since 1990 only 5 players have hit 40 goals for the Leafs, Andreychuk, Clark, Sundin Matthews and now Tavares.  Sundin is the only one to do it twice.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on March 21, 2019, 02:44:01 PM
Since 1990 only 5 players have hit 40 goals for the Leafs, Andreychuk, Clark, Sundin Matthews and now Tavares.  Sundin is the only one to do it twice.

40 goals back then is worth a poop-ton more in this score-happy era we find ourselves in.
Nevertheless, Tavares is having himself an impressive season and it's buoying everyone around him (Marner, Hyman, Rielly).
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Coco-puffs on March 21, 2019, 03:08:03 PM
Since 1990 only 5 players have hit 40 goals for the Leafs, Andreychuk, Clark, Sundin Matthews and now Tavares.  Sundin is the only one to do it twice.

40 goals back then is worth a poop-ton more in this score-happy era we find ourselves in.
Nevertheless, Tavares is having himself an impressive season and it's buoying everyone around him (Marner, Hyman, Rielly).

I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not???

Clark's 46 Goals and Andrechuk's 53 goals in 93-94 came in a year where the average team scored 3.24 goals per game.

Sundin did it in years where the goals per game were 2.92 (96-97, 41G) and 2.62 (01-02, 41G). 

This year the average goals per game (per team) is 3.03

Adjusted:

Andrechuk:  48
Clark: 42
Sundin (96-97):  42
Sundin (01-02):  47
Matthews (16-17):  44
Tavares (18-19):  42 and counting

(NOTE:  Sundin has two more seasons where adjustment moves him above 40G)
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on March 21, 2019, 03:44:40 PM
Not sarcastic, just plain wrong re: Clark and Andreychuk as I was only remembering Sundin's era.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 21, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
Not sarcastic, just plain wrong re: Clark and Andreychuk as I was only remembering Sundin's era.
What's wrong about it, scoring was higher in 92-94. The year Clark scored 46, there were 9 other players with 50+ goals. This year we might only have 1 guy score 50
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Coco-puffs on March 21, 2019, 05:19:54 PM
Not sarcastic, just plain wrong re: Clark and Andreychuk as I was only remembering Sundin's era.
What's wrong about it, scoring was higher in 92-94. The year Clark scored 46, there were 9 other players with 50+ goals. This year we might only have 1 guy score 50

He was trying to say scoring was worth MORE in 92-93 than it is now.  Which he admitted afterwards is false.  However, he is correct it was worth more during the two years Sundin hit 40.

Quote
40 goals back then is worth a poop-ton more (than) in this score-happy era we find ourselves in.
Title: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: Zee on March 21, 2019, 05:37:57 PM
Got it. Speaking of Johnny T, he's 5 points away from a career high; I hope he sets it against the Islanders with a game winner.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: hockeyfan1 on March 26, 2019, 02:58:23 AM
Tavares, Tavares...

Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on March 26, 2019, 09:42:39 AM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tavares-continues-historic-leafs-debut-wide-open-affair-vs-panthers/

Quote
Whatís opened [Tavaresí] new teammateís eyes the most this season is how consistently he prepares no matter what is happening. Through winning streaks and losing stretches, whether heís got a hot hand or is on the wrong end of puck luck, nothing changes.

ďItís easy to go into the rink early once a week or do treatment ó roll out ó when you feel like it. He does it every single day,Ē said Rielly. ďItís not that easy and itís a long season, and heís in there every single day doing the same thing. Heís got a routine heíd like to stick to.Ē
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: L K on March 26, 2019, 10:00:10 AM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/tavares-continues-historic-leafs-debut-wide-open-affair-vs-panthers/

Quote
Whatís opened [Tavaresí] new teammateís eyes the most this season is how consistently he prepares no matter what is happening. Through winning streaks and losing stretches, whether heís got a hot hand or is on the wrong end of puck luck, nothing changes.

ďItís easy to go into the rink early once a week or do treatment ó roll out ó when you feel like it. He does it every single day,Ē said Rielly. ďItís not that easy and itís a long season, and heís in there every single day doing the same thing. Heís got a routine heíd like to stick to.Ē

From what I have learned this year John Tavares is a snake but also a robot.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on March 26, 2019, 10:11:11 AM
You can really see why Tavares was blown away by Dubas and Babcock's presentation last summer.

Dubas: Trust the Process(tm) of the aggregation of marginal gains.
Babcock: Do gud things (everyday) and gud things happen (eventually, sometimes).
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on March 26, 2019, 10:19:06 AM
Tav4res.
Rell gud pro.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on March 26, 2019, 10:41:44 AM
swagger.gif
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on April 11, 2019, 02:55:46 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on April 12, 2019, 12:33:58 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 13, 2019, 12:36:50 PM
Even Tavares' empty netter was a thing of beauty. How often can you say that? That goal was on Bergeron, 100%
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: RedLeaf on April 13, 2019, 02:06:47 PM
"If you're lucky enough to draft acquire a cornerstone player, you hope to get into a position where you can see his true brilliance"
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on July 23, 2019, 10:18:19 AM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 23, 2019, 04:56:44 PM

Just give the man the C
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: herman on July 23, 2019, 08:19:04 PM
Heís likely going to be lining up in front of Cody Ceci, so heís getting at least two Cs.
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on August 04, 2019, 04:39:16 PM
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 20, 2019, 10:34:14 AM

They really walked right into that one...
Title: Re: John Tavares is a Maple Leaf
Post by: disco on September 12, 2019, 02:50:51 PM