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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: Bonsixx on April 14, 2018, 12:20:56 AM

Title: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 14, 2018, 12:20:56 AM
Hi,

I'm a longtime member (since 1999, I think) and I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

Anyway, that's my opinion (without "the numbers" to prove it), but for anyone who just wants to vent about the team, and who should or shouldn't play, based on the ol' fashioned eye test, please post here.

No "advanced stats" needed. Is that OK?

And here's the first opinion: I don't care how bad Matt Martin is at hockey, I think they need him on the fourth line against Boston.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 14, 2018, 12:26:44 AM
Quick addition: I'd pay money to see Marchand try to kiss Martin.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 14, 2018, 04:46:18 AM
Welcome back, Bonsixx!   

Doesn't look like Martin will be inserted into the lineup anytime soon.  At least for now.  If everything falls apart again for the Leafs in Game 2,  expect more changes in the lineup shuffle.  Game 2 will tell the tale. 
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Mr. Leaf on April 14, 2018, 05:19:47 AM
My kinda thread!  8). I'd also be ok with seeing Martin inserted into the lineup but personally would like to see Leivo take Kadri's spot.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Andy on April 14, 2018, 06:33:02 AM
I'm not so sure about needing Martin. Special teams play such a big role in the playoffs and I think the only thing Martin will do is add to the time spent on the PK. I think Johnsson over him (and Carrick over Polak) and trying to beat the Bruins with speed and skill is the way to go. And I'm still pushing for Nylander to centre and Bozak to the 4th line. I'd love to see this:

Hyman     Matthews    Marner
Johnsson  Nylander     Brown
JVR          Marleau      Kapanen
Komarov   Bozak        Plekanec/Leivo/Martin

       Rielly       Dermott
       Gardiner  Carrick
       Hainsey   Zaitsev


Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Boston Leaf on April 14, 2018, 06:35:03 AM
good thread  ;D
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 14, 2018, 07:45:05 AM
Personally if I was to remove a Dman for Carrick, I'd take out Hainsey before Polak. Seems to me that Hainsey is on the ice for every goal and is usually flailing around on the ice when it happens.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: nutman on April 14, 2018, 09:19:59 AM
Nice post I agree 100%.  Martin not so much yet, I think we use our speed first.  If Plakanic goes for another ride I am all for getting him out he has not played a good game since he joined us, and we all know he has game.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 14, 2018, 12:03:01 PM
I'm not so sure about needing Martin. Special teams play such a big role in the playoffs and I think the only thing Martin will do is add to the time spent on the PK. I think Johnsson over him (and Carrick over Polak) and trying to beat the Bruins with speed and skill is the way to go. And I'm still pushing for Nylander to centre and Bozak to the 4th line. I'd love to see this:

Hyman     Matthews    Marner
Johnsson  Nylander     Brown
JVR          Marleau      Kapanen
Komarov   Bozak        Plekanec/Leivo/Martin

       Rielly       Dermott
       Gardiner  Carrick
       Hainsey   Zaitsev
It's a good point that they need to beat them with their speed (ie. Hyman's goal) but man, it seemed they were standing around most of Game 1 waiting to get hit.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 14, 2018, 12:04:15 PM
Personally if I was to remove a Dman for Carrick, I'd take out Hainsey before Polak. Seems to me that Hainsey is on the ice for every goal and is usually flailing around on the ice when it happens.
That's because Babs plays him too much. Not really Hainsey's fault.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 14, 2018, 12:23:26 PM
Val Kilmer just before he places a shot through Marchands forehead. "I'll be your Huckleberry".  Perhaps Komrade can play that role tonight.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on April 14, 2018, 02:05:32 PM
Nice thread Bonsixx. You just stated what alot of  the mere mortals on this sight have been thinking for the last few years.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 14, 2018, 02:06:38 PM
Personally if I was to remove a Dman for Carrick, I'd take out Hainsey before Polak. Seems to me that Hainsey is on the ice for every goal and is usually flailing around on the ice when it happens.
That's because Babs plays him too much. Not really Hainsey's fault.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Well that's sort of true for everyone who plays in situations they shouldn't isn't it...on all teams.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Andy on April 14, 2018, 02:18:14 PM
I'm not so sure about needing Martin. Special teams play such a big role in the playoffs and I think the only thing Martin will do is add to the time spent on the PK. I think Johnsson over him (and Carrick over Polak) and trying to beat the Bruins with speed and skill is the way to go. And I'm still pushing for Nylander to centre and Bozak to the 4th line. I'd love to see this:

Hyman     Matthews    Marner
Johnsson  Nylander     Brown
JVR          Marleau      Kapanen
Komarov   Bozak        Plekanec/Leivo/Martin

       Rielly       Dermott
       Gardiner  Carrick
       Hainsey   Zaitsev
It's a good point that they need to beat them with their speed (ie. Hyman's goal) but man, it seemed they were standing around most of Game 1 waiting to get hit.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Well while that was definitely true the 1st period, I thought they looked real good in the 2nd. Special teams essentially decided that game. I think discipline and puck possession are going to get the Leafs through this series, not trying to outhit or out dump and chase the physically superior team.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 14, 2018, 03:35:54 PM
Its strange, but I have always thought this team is built for one to two/three years down the road. I am feeling a little disassociated at this point. Very strange, I used to live and die for the Leafs to make the post season, perhaps my expectations are not so high and its doesn't help we are playing the B's.
Hope they can come back and ignite the fire again.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 14, 2018, 04:40:03 PM
I'm not so sure about needing Martin. Special teams play such a big role in the playoffs and I think the only thing Martin will do is add to the time spent on the PK. I think Johnsson over him (and Carrick over Polak) and trying to beat the Bruins with speed and skill is the way to go. And I'm still pushing for Nylander to centre and Bozak to the 4th line. I'd love to see this:

Hyman     Matthews    Marner
Johnsson  Nylander     Brown
JVR          Marleau      Kapanen
Komarov   Bozak        Plekanec/Leivo/Martin

       Rielly       Dermott
       Gardiner  Carrick
       Hainsey   Zaitsev

These guys are 20.  They shouldn't get tired.  This would be fun:

Johnsson  Matthews    Hyman  (22 min)
Marleau  Nylander     Marner  (20 min)
JVR          Bozak      Kapanen (15 min)
Leivo   Matthews        Brown (3 min)

       Rielly       Dermott (25)
       Gardiner  Carrick (25)
       Hainsey   Zaitsev (10)

Powerplay:
JVR          Bozak      Marner    Leivo    Reilly (1min30/pp)
Matthews Nylander Johnsson Marleau Gardiner (30/pp)

PK:
It can't be worse than the last game.

 :D :D :D :D



Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 14, 2018, 04:45:34 PM
Hi,

I'm a longtime member (since 1999, I think) and I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

Anyway, that's my opinion (without "the numbers" to prove it), but for anyone who just wants to vent about the team, and who should or shouldn't play, based on the ol' fashioned eye test, please post here.

No "advanced stats" needed. Is that OK?

And here's the first opinion: I don't care how bad Matt Martin is at hockey, I think they need him on the fourth line against Boston.

Discuss.

Great post and great thread.  Thanks for this.

If we disagree on this site, it would be nice if we could disagree and yet be positive, supportive and friendly towards one another as opposed to hostile.  Point out when someone makes a nice point, even if you don't agree with the entirety of their statement.  We lose contributors to the site when we are unfriendly.  (I am sure I am personally forgetful this golden rule from time to time.  Apologies for when I screw up.)
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Chris on April 14, 2018, 04:55:18 PM
Nice thread! Can we talk about +/- or is it taboo here too  :)

Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) I only got to see bits and pieces of game 1. I'm on the fence concerning the value Martin might add, but he'd probably be more effective than Komarov (except on the PK of course). I thought Matthews looked a bit tentative but again, I only saw part of the game. He needs to be much more assertive and I'd like to see him use his size a bit as well.

Hopefully my internet connection will stay alive long enough to watch the game tonight...here in western NY we are preparing for a potentially very bad ice storm with a lot of wind. Bad combination.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 14, 2018, 05:40:45 PM
Babs needs to do what Carlyle did in that series back then we he had to find a way to get Kessel loose.  The Leafs had a strategy in place and it worked beautifully.  If Babcock could take a page from there and get the Matthews line away from the Bergeron line, or at least rearrange things, be ecclective, etc., perhaps then the Leafs will have a greater chance of success.

We all know the Leafs' biggest asset is their speed & skill.  This needs to be unleashed.  (It is said that defence wins playoff hockey games.  Not as prevalent anymore, according to stats).

Quote
...Boston Bruins beating the Leafs is by the Leafs beating themselves. Their biggest weapon is their offence, their kids, their creativity. They can score in bushels when they're humming. If Mike Babcock puts them in offensive shackles, whatís left to beat Boston with? Are they going to out-defend one of the leagueís stingiest teams despite themselves being downright middling defensively?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 15, 2018, 10:35:13 PM
Personally if I was to remove a Dman for Carrick, I'd take out Hainsey before Polak. Seems to me that Hainsey is on the ice for every goal and is usually flailing around on the ice when it happens.
That's because Babs plays him too much. Not really Hainsey's fault.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Well that's sort of true for everyone who plays in situations they shouldn't isn't it...on all teams.
Hainsey's issue is basic stuff.. Covering a man, not giving the uck away when not being pressured. That has nothing to do with being tired. Simple simple stuff
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 16, 2018, 08:25:46 AM
Personally if I was to remove a Dman for Carrick, I'd take out Hainsey before Polak. Seems to me that Hainsey is on the ice for every goal and is usually flailing around on the ice when it happens.
That's because Babs plays him too much. Not really Hainsey's fault.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Well that's sort of true for everyone who plays in situations they shouldn't isn't it...on all teams.
Hainsey's issue is basic stuff.. Covering a man, not giving the uck away when not being pressured. That has nothing to do with being tired. Simple simple stuff

Exactly. He's soft on the puck, soft on the man, and just overall a soft player. As he slows, how soft he is becomes more and more evident.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 09:39:25 AM
I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

I'm sorry you feel this way about the site now. I spend a good deal of time here now, without the background of what it was like 'before', and I like it.

I don't find that there is outright hostile shouting down of opinions with analytics; merely a group of people hashing out what might be true from a distance with whatever information they have access to. I have been on the receiving end of data that I had not considered and I appreciate the perspective. I can see why some would chafe at that (it's a natural survival mechanism for humans) and interpret it as hostility. We have a tendency to only take the data that reinforces our already developed opinions (see politics/religion).

If anything, hostility comes up on the defensive side more often than not; for a brief period of time, there was a very vocal pushback calling the 'analytics' crowd bad fans for being pessimists or something like that, and that's unfortunate and also verifiably false. Everyone here is here because they're a fan. We approach the game a bit differently, but at the end of the day we want this team to succeed and that's what we have in common.

So I see your suggestion for icing Matt Martin, and I know you're coming from the perspective of adding that dimension of internally motivated intensity, finishing checks to make the game more of an uphill climb for the Bruins. I agree that dimension is missing from our team. If Komarov was not so slow anymore, we'd have it. I would prefer it come in the form of more minutes for Johnsson, Kapanen. If we can call him up, Carl Grundstrom would also be and interesting add.

Anyway, my main point is, the Marlies in the lineup are the ones that seem to be actually effective, while most of Lou's regular season vets have all seemingly broken down together.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Chris on April 16, 2018, 10:26:16 AM

Anyway, my main point is, the Marlies in the lineup are the ones that seem to be actually effective, while most of Lou's regular season vets have all seemingly broken down together.

One thing I can say after watching the first two games...unless things change dramatically, I won't be particularly upset if JVR, Bozak and Komarov all walk for no return during the summer. It was nice to see JVR throwing his weight around a little in the last game, but he's been pretty invisible for the most part. Would be nice to get some kind of draft pick in exchange for his rights if possible. I'm not sold on Marleau for another 2 years either but that's another discussion.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: TheMightyOdin on April 16, 2018, 06:41:57 PM
The only thing Iím going to say about stats is that 60% of the time theyíre wrong every time.

Go Leafs Go!
Title: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 16, 2018, 08:07:42 PM
Leafs Playoff - Ignoramuses who donít like their misguided opinion challenged edition.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 20, 2018, 03:25:36 AM
Leafs Playoff - Ignoramuses who donít like their misguided opinion challenged edition.

Welcome to the thread, thanks for proving the point! Jackass.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 20, 2018, 03:30:09 AM
Nice post, thanks.

And between the time I posted this and now, I went back and forth on the Martin thing. I don't think he's going to find his way in, but I also don't think it'll matter much now anyway, if it ever would.

But I think it's clear that the Leafs need a hard-hitting power forward on the top two lines. Hyman works hard, but he's not it. JVR is a big body, but he's not it. Evander Kane maybe? But he's probably signing in San Jose.

I don't know, but the lack of anything resembling pushback is disheartening. And all the skill in the world doesn't seem to combat that. DeBrusk is a bigger factor in this series than Nylander, and that's a shame.

I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

I'm sorry you feel this way about the site now. I spend a good deal of time here now, without the background of what it was like 'before', and I like it.

I don't find that there is outright hostile shouting down of opinions with analytics; merely a group of people hashing out what might be true from a distance with whatever information they have access to. I have been on the receiving end of data that I had not considered and I appreciate the perspective. I can see why some would chafe at that (it's a natural survival mechanism for humans) and interpret it as hostility. We have a tendency to only take the data that reinforces our already developed opinions (see politics/religion).

If anything, hostility comes up on the defensive side more often than not; for a brief period of time, there was a very vocal pushback calling the 'analytics' crowd bad fans for being pessimists or something like that, and that's unfortunate and also verifiably false. Everyone here is here because they're a fan. We approach the game a bit differently, but at the end of the day we want this team to succeed and that's what we have in common.

So I see your suggestion for icing Matt Martin, and I know you're coming from the perspective of adding that dimension of internally motivated intensity, finishing checks to make the game more of an uphill climb for the Bruins. I agree that dimension is missing from our team. If Komarov was not so slow anymore, we'd have it. I would prefer it come in the form of more minutes for Johnsson, Kapanen. If we can call him up, Carl Grundstrom would also be and interesting add.

Anyway, my main point is, the Marlies in the lineup are the ones that seem to be actually effective, while most of Lou's regular season vets have all seemingly broken down together.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Darryl on April 21, 2018, 03:39:02 PM
Leafs Playoff - Ignoramuses who donít like their misguided opinion challenged edition.

Nothing against the rules about people having a casual hockey discussion thread. They aren't insulting anyone or saying don't statistically in depth discussions. Let em be.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 21, 2018, 03:44:26 PM
Hi,

I'm a longtime member (since 1999, I think) and I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

Anyway, that's my opinion (without "the numbers" to prove it), but for anyone who just wants to vent about the team, and who should or shouldn't play, based on the ol' fashioned eye test, please post here.

No "advanced stats" needed. Is that OK?

And here's the first opinion: I don't care how bad Matt Martin is at hockey, I think they need him on the fourth line against Boston.

Discuss.
I have noticed the same thing myself and I commented on it also, albeit not quite as peacefully as you have done.  I agree with you and it's a load of BS.  There are a handful of pig headed people here that ruin it.  One person in particular.  However the group of them tends to work together and any type of dissent is met with swift retribution.  It really takes a lot of the fun out of posting here.  I'm surprised some of these people live in a free country to be honest.  They can't deal with any sort of opposing opinion, and they mock those who don't share their own point of view.  Anyhow good luck with that.  It's not going to change.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 21, 2018, 04:12:42 PM

I've posted on this site for the better part of two decades now and in general I don't think things have changed much in terms of how the place is. Pre-advanced stats I actually think arguments tended to be longer, more circular and as a result more heated.

Two things though I think I'd say specifically:

1. I think it's always been pretty consistent that the tone of responses an argument gets is in direct proportion to the tone of the argument("Maybe Babcock should consider shuffling Martin in" vs. "WAHT'S WRONG WITH BABCOCK BEING SUCH A WUSS?!?! DOESn't HE HAVE BRAINS?). However there are a lot of people who post the latter and expect to be responded to as if they posted the former.

2. There are always a pretty fair amount of people who take "I think you're wrong" as some sort of terrible personal insult no matter how it's phrased.

Honestly, I think putting any blame on anyone's allegiances to advanced numbers is kind of a canard(and I say that as someone who's neither well versed in them nor has a lot of time for them). If you'd shown up here in 2002 and made an argument that ran afoul of traditional numbers or traditional wisdom people would have probably reacted harsher because of how cut and dried they were. And I say that as someone who made a pretty fair number of "Hey, maybe Tie Domi isn't helping us win much" or "I actually think Kaberle is pretty good defensively" posts.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 21, 2018, 04:25:10 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.  Quel surprise.  ::)
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: harps64 on April 21, 2018, 04:50:48 PM
Hi,

I'm a longtime member (since 1999, I think) and I noticed a post in the gameday thread for Game 1 about how it was a pretty slow day for a Leafs playoff game.

I think it's because of those who enjoy advanced stats shouting opinions down with "Corsi, Corsi, Corsi, math, math, math" whenever a new member expresses an opinion. I love the advanced stats and think they have value, but it seems to me that anyone who signs on here to voice their thoughts on the team these days just get mocked and have numbers thrown at their face. It never used to be this way.

This used to be a great community for all Leafs fans, and it seems if you post an opinion now that might go against the advanced stats, it turns hostile.

Anyway, that's my opinion (without "the numbers" to prove it), but for anyone who just wants to vent about the team, and who should or shouldn't play, based on the ol' fashioned eye test, please post here.

No "advanced stats" needed. Is that OK?

And here's the first opinion: I don't care how bad Matt Martin is at hockey, I think they need him on the fourth line against Boston.

Discuss.
I have noticed the same thing myself and I commented on it also, albeit not quite as peacefully as you have done.  I agree with you and it's a load of BS.  There are a handful of pig headed people here that ruin it.  One person in particular.  However the group of them tends to work together and any type of dissent is met with swift retribution.  It really takes a lot of the fun out of posting here.  I'm surprised some of these people live in a free country to be honest.  They can't deal with any sort of opposing opinion, and they mock those who don't share their own point of view.  Anyhow good luck with that.  It's not going to change.

Couldnít agree more, this site used to be an enjoyable way of keeping up with the Leafs, but the past couple of years I found myself getting more and more agitated the way certain posters were be treated. Itís a shame to be honest. It seems if you're not in with the ďin crowdĒ and agree with their elitist point of view, you are just shouted down.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: nutman on April 21, 2018, 04:56:30 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.  Quel surprise.  ::)



Hahahah..... Soooo true.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 21, 2018, 05:08:03 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.

I wrote a hopefully well-reasoned post in which I said what I thought about the issue raised without insulting anyone and framed entirely within the context of my opinion so...thanks?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 21, 2018, 05:35:35 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.

I wrote a hopefully well-reasoned post in which I said what I thought about the issue raised without insulting anyone and framed entirely within the context of my opinion so...thanks?

Yeah it was good stuff.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 21, 2018, 05:46:25 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.  Quel surprise.  ::)

*Quelle surprise
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 21, 2018, 05:53:29 PM
Get those advanced spellings outta here
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 21, 2018, 05:54:54 PM
Guys look, Nik the Trik is doing the exact same thing in this thread that he does everywhere else.  Quel surprise.  ::)

*Quelle surprise

See, that's something I would definitely do.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 21, 2018, 06:02:37 PM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 21, 2018, 06:18:12 PM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: harps64 on April 21, 2018, 06:20:30 PM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?

I think we were just speaking about being a dick in general.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: harps64 on April 21, 2018, 06:32:48 PM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.

A bit of luck wouldnít hurt either. Still donít think weíre out of this yet.
We had 105 pts this year, itís not like we just eeked into a playoff
spot.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 21, 2018, 06:46:44 PM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
I'm not holding my breath that Andersen suddenly pulls a gem out of his ass but I hope to be wrong about this. I'm not ready to shave yet
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 21, 2018, 06:55:39 PM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
I'm not holding my breath that Andersen suddenly pulls a gem out of his ass but I hope to be wrong about this. I'm not ready to shave yet


It's going to take a lot more than Andersen, but yes, Freddie needs to step up.  The Leafs fate rests (partially) in his hands.

The stars will align for for our boys tonight.  C'mon Awesome & Nifty...go get 'em!

GO LEAFS GO!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 21, 2018, 07:13:04 PM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
I'm not holding my breath that Andersen suddenly pulls a gem out of his ass but I hope to be wrong about this. I'm not ready to shave yet


It's going to take a lot more than Andersen, but yes, Freddie needs to step up.  The Leafs fate rests (partially) in his hands.

The stars will align for for our boys tonight.  C'mon Awesome & Nifty...go get 'em!

GO LEAFS GO!
Hamburgler basically stole the Avs a game last night, that's what I'd like to see Andersen do
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 22, 2018, 07:55:41 AM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
I'm not holding my breath that Andersen suddenly pulls a gem out of his ass but I hope to be wrong about this. I'm not ready to shave yet

It might not have been a total steal, but he was awesome last night. Tonnes of great saves. I thought Kadri was pretty awesome too.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 22, 2018, 08:16:50 AM
Casual take: The Leafs need Andersen to steal this game tonight. Like, bona fide larceny of a game.

Then they head back home and Matthews finally has a breakout game, sending it to Game 7.

Fingers crossed, I guess.
I'm not holding my breath that Andersen suddenly pulls a gem out of his ass but I hope to be wrong about this. I'm not ready to shave yet

It might not have been a total steal, but he was awesome last night. Tonnes of great saves. I thought Kadri was pretty awesome too.
Yep, l take that performance by Andersen anytime
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Kaberle15 on April 22, 2018, 11:26:23 AM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?

In my NHL Bracket challenge the Leafs will win the cup against Vegas.

But from the start of the season... no way is that predicable.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Rick Couchman on April 22, 2018, 12:09:18 PM
Okay.  A couple people have asked me to review this thread. 

I have, and I'm honestly stuck for a solution to how one or more posters make it less enjoyable for others. 

I recognize some aren't happy.  I recognize that the boards have less visitors than, say, two years ago.

Any suggestions?  Feel free to post here or message me in private.  Rick
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 22, 2018, 02:12:34 PM
Rick,

I personally feel that this site has always had an air of arrogance but I've come to accept it as "just the way it is." I've been coming here for quite a while but refrain from posting often for this very reason.

That being said, I'm not sure why this thread can't exist. Some of us enjoy barroom banter without all the acronym's and decimal places that takes place with advanced stats. I don't necessarily have an issue with advanced stats. I personally don't feel like spending time breaking the game down into that much detail. It seems to suck some of the fun out of the game for me. If that makes me an "ignoramus"...so be it. But if we're going to be considered ignorant for not wanting to talk the fine numbers, don't be upset when someone calls you arrogant or a dick.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 22, 2018, 05:48:10 PM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 22, 2018, 05:58:53 PM
I think way too many people have focused on the first half of what WIGWAL wrote(which, admittedly, was not very nice) and not the second.

Nobody here has ever been forced to have a stats-heavy discussion and ignoring responses you're not interested in is super easy. And for everyone who's responded with "Why shouldn't this thread be allowed to exist?" has anyone seriously said otherwise? At best, some people have said that the accusations being levelled are unfair against the numbers-gang and, in my case, that there's a pretty dangerous level of hypocrisy on the part of some people when they accuse others of reacting badly to having opinions challenged.

Of course by saying "I don't think that what's being said is actually true" is, I'm sure, going to be filed in some people's minds as needlessly arrogant, argumentative or whatever but I honestly don't care. I think having a casual discussion thread is fine but I think it's really lousy that it so quickly devolved into basically just another moan-fest built on the cowardly slandering of long time board members.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 22, 2018, 07:57:56 PM
I think having a casual discussion thread is fine but I think it's really lousy that it so quickly devolved into basically just another moan-fest built on the cowardly slandering of long time board members.

It never really went that way until one of those long time board members came in and said people were being ignorant. I suppose it was supposed to be a joke. Who can really tell anymore?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 22, 2018, 08:39:12 PM
I think having a casual discussion thread is fine but I think it's really lousy that it so quickly devolved into basically just another moan-fest built on the cowardly slandering of long time board members.

It never really went that way until one of those long time board members came in and said people were being ignorant. I suppose it was supposed to be a joke. Who can really tell anymore?

It started literally in the opening post.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: louisstamos on April 22, 2018, 08:39:55 PM
Hey everyone - let's make fun of the Greek guy!

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mafigzckli1r5s3klo2_250.gif)
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 22, 2018, 09:13:28 PM
Get a bunch of people together and they'll argue. That should be okay. But there are arguments and debate, and then there insulting tactics. Get rid of the insults and you get rid of the problem. No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated. Or ignore the jerk part of the comment and focus on the facts. And the fact is that most of the the time people are being assholes, they don't think they they're being assholes.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 22, 2018, 09:28:47 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 22, 2018, 10:25:20 PM
I'm just gonna throw this out there. I like the boards and wouldn't change them. I'm not sure what air of arrogance or what have you others are referring to but I view this place as an oasis in a desert chock full of just god awful discussion. I came here in 2005 specifically because you can get reasoned, rational arguments here. What you get elsewhere is a hodgepodge of complete homers or the most knee jerk insane reactions on the planet. I can't even tell you how many posts/threads I've seen elsewhere saying we should trade Matthews because of his playoffs thus far. Really, so many other places make me hate being part of Leafs fandom - this place doesn't make me feel that.

Like with any place you take the good with the bad and honestly I think the good definitely outweighs the bad - which is why I still come here.

And now is as good a time as any to say Rick, I appreciate all the time and effort you've put into this place.

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 22, 2018, 10:58:25 PM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.

Uhhh...
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 23, 2018, 12:13:00 AM
OK, so it's a little ironic that what was supposed to be a light, stress-free thread to allow people to just basically vent about the team without being told they're wrong because "math" has turned into some kind of state of the union thing, and that was never my intention. Nor was it my intention to insult any fellow posters.

Like I said, a post I saw about how it was a pretty sparse thread for a playoff game just made me think, and it made me consider why I don't post as often as I used to. And a lot of it was simply because these days, if you post an opinion, you better have the numbers to back up every possible situation, when sometimes all people want is to watch the game and express what they see in front of them at any given time.

Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, and expressing follow-up opinions is fine and welcomed, but it's like, when your wife/husband/whatever vents to you about their day, they don't want solutions. They want someone to listen. And if a conversation develops based on that, it's all good.

Again, the whole point was to provide a thread that was loose, like a chat in a bar, without it becoming like doing homework for an hour before you feel like you can post an opinion. I appreciate both sides of it, really, and I have no problem with those more in-depth discussions when I'm in the mood. But not everyone wants to research what (and just using him as an hypothetical here, for the record I think he's playing great) Gardiner's Corsi Close is in the last five minutes of a game on a defensive zone draw when they watch him make a bad play and vent about it.

This was never meant to alienate or attack anyone, it was simply meant to include everyone who wanted to just shoot the "stuff" about the team casually, the old (though I hate the term) eyeball-test conversations, I guess. I tried to be as careful as I could with the wording of the initial post so that would be clear, and in no way hostile, but I guess I wasn't careful enough.

Anyway, Go Leafs Go?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 23, 2018, 05:43:17 AM
I think having a casual discussion thread is fine but I think it's really lousy that it so quickly devolved into basically just another moan-fest built on the cowardly slandering of long time board members.

It never really went that way until one of those long time board members came in and said people were being ignorant. I suppose it was supposed to be a joke. Who can really tell anymore?

It started literally in the opening post.

The opening post was slandering towards long time posters?

Anyhooo...back to Bonsixx's original purpose for this thread.

I think Gardiner has made several boneheaded plays this playoffs and throughout the season. If anyone made a good enough offer for him in the offseason, I'd jump on it. He's highly skilled but not skilled enough to take the risks that he does.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Boston Leaf on April 23, 2018, 06:57:26 AM
Rick,

I personally feel that this site has always had an air of arrogance but I've come to accept it as "just the way it is." I've been coming here for quite a while but refrain from posting often for this very reason.

That being said, I'm not sure why this thread can't exist. Some of us enjoy barroom banter without all the acronym's and decimal places that takes place with advanced stats. I don't necessarily have an issue with advanced stats. I personally don't feel like spending time breaking the game down into that much detail. It seems to suck some of the fun out of the game for me. If that makes me an "ignoramus"...so be it. But if we're going to be considered ignorant for not wanting to talk the fine numbers, don't be upset when someone calls you arrogant or a dick.

I agree with this.... There are times I have thoughts but I refrain..It may go against what some of the regulars post or like and then I just don't want to get into on line arguments etc.. I do feel there are certain posters here that may enjoy just cutting people up for opinions.. I read here a lot but don't post too often
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 07:34:49 AM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.

Uhhh...
Either they can change the moderation or else start banning people like Nik the Trik.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 23, 2018, 08:09:41 AM
You make one jerkish throwaway semi true quip and everyone loses their minds...

Sorry for being a jackass, I thought it was clear I was being obtuse for comedic effect.

You live and you learn.

The mods here do an excellent job compared to most cess pools online, anyone having a pop at them is out to lunch.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 08:13:35 AM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.

Uhhh...
Either they can change the moderation or else start banning people like Nik the Trik.

As a general rule for myself, before I try to smear someone in a community, I like to double check that I havenít behaved in the exact way that I am decrying.

Out of whatever respect you have for me, please reread your own post history and maybe even have a look at where this thread started turning towards baseless accusations.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 08:45:48 AM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?

There was actually at least one model from a prominent stats person that predicted that Vegas could be really good this season... but that was PRIOR to the actual expansion draft and based on Vegas picking guys that the model/fancy stats liked. After the expansion draft that model had them as bad as everyone else figured.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 09:03:34 AM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?

There was actually at least one model from a prominent stats person that predicted that Vegas could be really good this season... but that was PRIOR to the actual expansion draft and based on Vegas picking guys that the model/fancy stats liked. After the expansion draft that model had them as bad as everyone else figured.

I was very down on Vegas' expansion picks, except for some of the overreacting teams like Florida, or dumb dumb teams like Washington giving up Schmidt.

It's a very interesting case study of players that hockey teams have deemed average-ish to expendable can accomplish simply with more ice time, leash, and a speed-based strategy. It's also hard to say much about a large number of players putting up career numbers at the same time other than congrats on the paycheques.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 09:06:25 AM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.

Uhhh...
Either they can change the moderation or else start banning people like Nik the Trik.

As a general rule for myself, before I try to smear someone in a community, I like to double check that I havenít behaved in the exact way that I am decrying.

Out of whatever respect you have for me, please reread your own post history and maybe even have a look at where this thread started turning towards baseless accusations.
If I have posted some things out of frustration with the bull#$#% on here, so be it. It seems like most of the other people bothered by this simply refrain from posting or else leave the board entirely. I have had several people contact me via private message with words of support and agreement. For whatever reason I guess they are just not comfortable sharing their thoughts openly here. But there is definitely a problem here. You guys trying to blame the victims or pretending that these issues do not exist is not going to solve anything.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: TML fan on April 23, 2018, 09:25:32 AM
The problem with analytics based discussion is that the discussion becomes more about the merit of the numbers and the different ways they can be interpreted rather than anything to do with the original topic. Most people don't come here for that.

The rest is just human nature. Any time you get a group of people together, no matter what their commonalities are, there will be friction.

We shouldn't be trying to shut down discussion of any kind. That's only going to fracture the community even more.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 09:33:30 AM
If I have posted some things out of frustration with the bull#$#% on here, so be it. It seems like most of the other people bothered by this simply refrain from posting or else leave the board entirely. I have had several people contact me via private message with words of support and agreement. For whatever reason I guess they are just not comfortable sharing their thoughts openly here. But there is definitely a problem here. You guys trying to blame the victims or pretending that these issues do not exist is not going to solve anything.

I'm curious why would you characterize the recommendation for introspection and self-assessment as victim blaming, or as willful blindness to the problem.

I think the main problem, as Bonsixx alluded to, is that people simply have different ideas of what a discussion forum means to them. Some want to analyze and dissect ideas; others just want to say what they feel and be affirmed. That spectrum exists in every community.

In the same community, inevitably someone from side A is going to post a treatise on shot location data being binned for misleading assessments of the state of a team's structure and side B will tune out.

At the same time, someone from side B is going to post about how he or she feels a certain thing turned out on the ice ("Seth Griffith will score 10 goals this season!") and maybe throw in a suggestion for how to fix it (or destroy it), someone else from side B will feel different and say so ("LOL Buffalo"), and someone from side A will analyze and dissect that suggestion and assess it accordingly ("He played top minutes with Florida and basically did nothing with that opportunity"). Sometimes the first poster will think, "ah, this is not what I was looking for", and check out. Other times that poster might take personal offense to having information counter to their beliefs thrown at them and try to attack back, usually personally because it was a personal offense to begin with so why not.

At the end of the day, we each can only control our own actions and reactions. If you want this place to be a better community, then be a better community member.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: nutman on April 23, 2018, 09:45:12 AM
OK, so it's a little ironic that what was supposed to be a light, stress-free thread to allow people to just basically vent about the team without being told they're wrong because "math" has turned into some kind of state of the union thing, and that was never my intention. Nor was it my intention to insult any fellow posters.

Like I said, a post I saw about how it was a pretty sparse thread for a playoff game just made me think, and it made me consider why I don't post as often as I used to. And a lot of it was simply because these days, if you post an opinion, you better have the numbers to back up every possible situation, when sometimes all people want is to watch the game and express what they see in front of them at any given time.

Maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, and expressing follow-up opinions is fine and welcomed, but it's like, when your wife/husband/whatever vents to you about their day, they don't want solutions. They want someone to listen. And if a conversation develops based on that, it's all good.

Again, the whole point was to provide a thread that was loose, like a chat in a bar, without it becoming like doing homework for an hour before you feel like you can post an opinion. I appreciate both sides of it, really, and I have no problem with those more in-depth discussions when I'm in the mood. But not everyone wants to research what (and just using him as an hypothetical here, for the record I think he's playing great) Gardiner's Corsi Close is in the last five minutes of a game on a defensive zone draw when they watch him make a bad play and vent about it.

This was never meant to alienate or attack anyone, it was simply meant to include everyone who wanted to just shoot the "stuff" about the team casually, the old (though I hate the term) eyeball-test conversations, I guess. I tried to be as careful as I could with the wording of the initial post so that would be clear, and in no way hostile, but I guess I wasn't careful enough.

Anyway, Go Leafs Go?



Good post, I agree.  I myself have been here almost from day one, and for a while now I have only posted once in a while my Reason is as stated above.  I thought this post was a good idea as well, as I to don't want to do math homework to talk Leafs either. I was picked and poked at for a long time for my thoughts when I posted but now I just don't respond to them anymore.

 The solution is simple.  If you don't like the conversation leave the post and go to another.  IMO this poster was not trying to stir the pot, he was only looking for some normal Hockey talk. I was liking this post as it was a very refreshing change until the jealous know it all's jumped in. Again, if you Don't like the conversation go to another post.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: nutman on April 23, 2018, 09:48:43 AM
Oh ya.... Go Leafs Go.  Lets take this to Boston.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Chris on April 23, 2018, 10:43:40 AM
Speaking of being a dick about numbers, was there a statistical model on this earth that had VGK anywhere near what they've accomplished this year?

There was actually at least one model from a prominent stats person that predicted that Vegas could be really good this season... but that was PRIOR to the actual expansion draft and based on Vegas picking guys that the model/fancy stats liked. After the expansion draft that model had them as bad as everyone else figured.

I was very down on Vegas' expansion picks, except for some of the overreacting teams like Florida, or dumb dumb teams like Washington giving up Schmidt.

It's a very interesting case study of players that hockey teams have deemed average-ish to expendable can accomplish simply with more ice time, leash, and a speed-based strategy. It's also hard to say much about a large number of players putting up career numbers at the same time other than congrats on the paycheques.

Bunch of decent players given a chance to prove their prior teams wrong, that can be a dangerous combination as the NHL found out this year. Can they win the Cup - wouldn't that be something? I doubt it but they keep surprising me.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Chris on April 23, 2018, 10:47:42 AM
It's not an easy problem to solve.  Rick I have sent you my suggestion which I think would definitely be a start and then we could take it from there.  Honestly if we want to change the culture on this forum we have to start at the top and that means changing the moderation here for the better.  The mods set the tone for the entire board, and if they are acting like pricks then it enables the trolls to run around unfettered.  I was going to keep my thoughts private but I'm putting that out there in the hope that others will agree with me and help foster some positive change for the community here.  For the traffic to drop during the past two years when it has been the most exciting time to be a Leafs fan in over twenty years it tells you something.  Something has to be done IMO.

Uhhh...
Either they can change the moderation or else start banning people like Nik the Trik.

As a general rule for myself, before I try to smear someone in a community, I like to double check that I havenít behaved in the exact way that I am decrying.

Out of whatever respect you have for me, please reread your own post history and maybe even have a look at where this thread started turning towards baseless accusations.
If I have posted some things out of frustration with the bull#$#% on here, so be it. It seems like most of the other people bothered by this simply refrain from posting or else leave the board entirely. I have had several people contact me via private message with words of support and agreement. For whatever reason I guess they are just not comfortable sharing their thoughts openly here. But there is definitely a problem here. You guys trying to blame the victims or pretending that these issues do not exist is not going to solve anything.

Yeah, you know...I've debated saying anything about this whole issue but I share your feelings on the subject. This place just isn't a very enjoyable community, it seems there is a small core group that likes to talk to each other and everyone else is pretty much ignored (and occasionally met with some hostility and belittling). I looked back at the history (number of posts per year) and it's amazing to see the decrease over the past 5 or so years, as someone said earlier - during a time when the future looks incredibly bright for the Leafs. That speaks volumes in my opinion.

I probably won't be posting anymore once this playoff season ends (I know, everyone will be crying about that :) ).
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 23, 2018, 10:53:47 AM
You make one jerkish throwaway semi true quip and everyone loses their minds...

Sorry for being a jackass, I thought it was clear I was being obtuse for comedic effect.

You live and you learn.

The mods here do an excellent job compared to most cess pools online, anyone having a pop at them is out to lunch.

We have mods here?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 10:55:05 AM
You make one jerkish throwaway semi true quip and everyone loses their minds...

Sorry for being a jackass, I thought it was clear I was being obtuse for comedic effect.

You live and you learn.

The mods here do an excellent job compared to most cess pools online, anyone having a pop at them is out to lunch.

We have mods here?

My time is mostly spent deleting all of Frank's sub-par posts.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 23, 2018, 10:56:41 AM
You make one jerkish throwaway semi true quip and everyone loses their minds...

Sorry for being a jackass, I thought it was clear I was being obtuse for comedic effect.

You live and you learn.

The mods here do an excellent job compared to most cess pools online, anyone having a pop at them is out to lunch.

We have mods here?

My time is mostly spent deleting all of Frank's sub-par posts.

Damn, it says "Global Moderator" under your name.  Shows how attentive I am  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 10:58:16 AM
I probably won't be posting anymore once this playoff season ends (I know, everyone will be crying about that :) ).

As the person who welcomed you here first, that saddens me (not quite to the point of tears, though, sorry).
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 23, 2018, 12:17:27 PM
To Mr William Nylander:

Please be awesome tonight.

Sincerely, Bullfrog
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 23, 2018, 12:57:58 PM
To Mr William Nylander:

Please be awesome tonight.

Sincerely, Bullfrog
And get all your buddies to be awesome to!!!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 23, 2018, 01:08:10 PM
You make one jerkish throwaway semi true quip and everyone loses their minds...

Sorry for being a jackass, I thought it was clear I was being obtuse for comedic effect.

You live and you learn.

The mods here do an excellent job compared to most cess pools online, anyone having a pop at them is out to lunch.

We have mods here?

My time is mostly spent deleting all of Frank's sub-par posts.

I can back this up, and most of my posts are, and should be, deleted promptly.  Thanks for doing that.

If I can chime in as a long-time super-quality poster here, I think that this is an excellent forum for not only sharing our outsider opinions, but also for learning about new ways to look at the game today.  The cap has made team building increasingly complicated, and some of the newer tracked data and statistics have made conversations about performance (team or individuals) a little more complicated, but also better and more accurate.

Some might long for the days of the game being about just hitting and scoring, and some very easy to understand measurements being the be-all and end-all of debates, but that's not coming back.  Some of the newer measurements will fade away due to practically no predictive value or usefulness, but there'll be new and better data to take its place, due to better technology.  I would also say that most of the more complicated measurements are actually pretty darn interesting.

If you want to just vent an opinion that doesn't really have any basis in fact, no problem, but don't be surprised if someone refutes that.  If you don't like that, then don't read the rebuttal.  I've been creamed around here for some opinions that I've had (usually by people more knowledgeable than I am, which is most of the world), but I choose to read the rebuttals, and learn a little more.  I can still maintain my original opinion, but often, my opinion changes for the "righter" because of better information.  I like that part of the forum, and quite frankly, it's the reason I choose to read and write around here.

I will also say that I really appreciate those around here that use proper grammar and syntax, because this has helped me be a better writer.  That's just an ancillary benefit to reading the posts around here, Carlton's "posts" notwithstanding. 
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 01:24:05 PM
I've probably written about 5 different responses to everything above but honestly I don't have much to say other than I don't think barring a certain type of speech is really beneficial to anybody and the infighting this thread has produced is exactly why I left other boards.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: nutman on April 23, 2018, 01:41:07 PM
Could it be that the truth hurts.

With that being said. lets get back to hockey and Please will everyone stop whining.

I will be unable to watch this game as I have to work.  So I will say it now, we need all skaters on board
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: louisstamos on April 23, 2018, 01:42:48 PM
I can back this up, and most of my posts are, and should be, deleted promptly.  Thanks for doing that.

If I can chime in as a long-time super-quality poster here, I think that this is an excellent forum for not only sharing our outsider opinions, but also for learning about new ways to look at the game today.  The cap has made team building increasingly complicated, and some of the newer tracked data and statistics have made conversations about performance (team or individuals) a little more complicated, but also better and more accurate.

Some might long for the days of the game being about just hitting and scoring, and some very easy to understand measurements being the be-all and end-all of debates, but that's not coming back.  Some of the newer measurements will fade away due to practically no predictive value or usefulness, but there'll be new and better data to take its place, due to better technology.  I would also say that most of the more complicated measurements are actually pretty darn interesting.

If you want to just vent an opinion that doesn't really have any basis in fact, no problem, but don't be surprised if someone refutes that.  If you don't like that, then don't read the rebuttal.  I've been creamed around here for some opinions that I've had (usually by people more knowledgeable than I am, which is most of the world), but I choose to read the rebuttals, and learn a little more.  I can still maintain my original opinion, but often, my opinion changes for the "righter" because of better information.  I like that part of the forum, and quite frankly, it's the reason I choose to read and write around here.

I will also say that I really appreciate those around here that use proper grammar and syntax, because this has helped me be a better writer.  That's just an ancillary benefit to reading the posts around here, Carlton's "posts" notwithstanding.

This is a terrific post - I'm someone in the same boat - where I'm trying to get into advance numbers (and do pick up a lot here), but am but no means an expert.  I look up stuff all the time because I'm trying to learn.  But when I want to post something to the effect of "wow, Zaitsev looks bad tonight," I don't really look up the numbers to back it up - I just post it.  If someone challenges it - even with numbers (i.e: "he's plus +2 and has a goal and an assist.  I think he's playing great!") - I don't take it personally.  It doesn't really invalidate how I feel.

I do think everyone on this board does bring something different to the discussion and that's important - whether we agree or disagree.  I know some people are more open to challenging opinions more aggressively than others, but it shouldn't invalidate what they say and what you say.

I will say - I'm not sure if I'm in the *it* crowd people talk about (I don't *think* I am? - I just kind of chime in with a pun or a meme every now and then), but I don't remember any instance of people ganging up on someone with the exception of when that TBLeafer fellow was posting some racist stuff and everyone kind of shut him down.  And that was warranted to me - maybe it's because I'm an outsider on most discussions and just like to read, but that's how I see it.

Anyhoo, here was I was hoping to stay at post #1234 forever, but now that's taken care of. :P
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 01:46:16 PM
But when I want to post something to the effect of "wow, Zaitsev looks bad tonight," I don't really look up the numbers to back it up - I just post it.  If someone challenges it - even with numbers (i.e: "he's plus +2 and has a goal and an assist.  I think he's playing great!") - I don't take it personally.  It doesn't really invalidate how I feel.

I'm personally offended that you think anyone in the analytics community would ever stick up for Zaitsev... and with +/- to boot!

;)
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: louisstamos on April 23, 2018, 01:47:06 PM
But when I want to post something to the effect of "wow, Zaitsev looks bad tonight," I don't really look up the numbers to back it up - I just post it.  If someone challenges it - even with numbers (i.e: "he's plus +2 and has a goal and an assist.  I think he's playing great!") - I don't take it personally.  It doesn't really invalidate how I feel.

I'm personally offended that you think anyone in the analytics community would ever stick up for Zaitsev... and with +/- to boot!

;)

It was strictly hypothetical. :P
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 23, 2018, 01:55:46 PM
I can back this up, and most of my posts are, and should be, deleted promptly.  Thanks for doing that.

If I can chime in as a long-time super-quality poster here, I think that this is an excellent forum for not only sharing our outsider opinions, but also for learning about new ways to look at the game today.  The cap has made team building increasingly complicated, and some of the newer tracked data and statistics have made conversations about performance (team or individuals) a little more complicated, but also better and more accurate.

Some might long for the days of the game being about just hitting and scoring, and some very easy to understand measurements being the be-all and end-all of debates, but that's not coming back.  Some of the newer measurements will fade away due to practically no predictive value or usefulness, but there'll be new and better data to take its place, due to better technology.  I would also say that most of the more complicated measurements are actually pretty darn interesting.

If you want to just vent an opinion that doesn't really have any basis in fact, no problem, but don't be surprised if someone refutes that.  If you don't like that, then don't read the rebuttal.  I've been creamed around here for some opinions that I've had (usually by people more knowledgeable than I am, which is most of the world), but I choose to read the rebuttals, and learn a little more.  I can still maintain my original opinion, but often, my opinion changes for the "righter" because of better information.  I like that part of the forum, and quite frankly, it's the reason I choose to read and write around here.

I will also say that I really appreciate those around here that use proper grammar and syntax, because this has helped me be a better writer.  That's just an ancillary benefit to reading the posts around here, Carlton's "posts" notwithstanding.

This is a terrific post - I'm someone in the same boat - where I'm trying to get into advance numbers (and do pick up a lot here), but am but no means an expert.  I look up stuff all the time because I'm trying to learn.  But when I want to post something to the effect of "wow, Zaitsev looks bad tonight," I don't really look up the numbers to back it up - I just post it.  If someone challenges it - even with numbers (i.e: "he's plus +2 and has a goal and an assist.  I think he's playing great!") - I don't take it personally.  It doesn't really invalidate how I feel.

I do think everyone on this board does bring something different to the discussion and that's important - whether we agree or disagree.  I know some people are more open to challenging opinions more aggressively than others, but it shouldn't invalidate what they say and what you say.

I will say - I'm not sure if I'm in the *it* crowd people talk about (I don't *think* I am? - I just kind of chime in with a pun or a meme every now and then), but I don't remember any instance of people ganging up on someone with the exception of when that TBLeafer fellow was posting some racist stuff and everyone kind of shut him down.  And that was warranted to me - maybe it's because I'm an outsider on most discussions and just like to read, but that's how I see it.

Anyhoo, here was I was hoping to stay at post #1234 forever, but now that's taken care of. :P

Two very good posts right here.

I'm at times probably a little more abrasive here than others, but I think that's just the Scotsman in me, having a heated discourse with a stranger is one of the first signs of a budding friendship for many of my people.

The people that are advocating extremely punitive solutions in this discourse are the ones that maybe need to chill out a bit.

Bottom line is we are all pulling for the Leafs tonight, let's remember we are allies, not enemies.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zee on April 23, 2018, 01:58:29 PM
Could it be that the truth hurts.

With that being said. lets get back to hockey and Please will everyone stop whining.

I will be unable to watch this game as I have to work.  So I will say it now, we need all skaters on board

No worries man, just make sure you're not working Wednesday night for game 7.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 23, 2018, 02:08:25 PM

Two very good posts right here.

I'm at times probably a little more abrasive here than others, but I think that's just the Scotsman in me, having a heated discourse with a stranger is one of the first signs of a budding friendship for many of my people.

The people that are advocating extremely punitive solutions in this discourse are the ones that maybe need to chill out a bit.

Bottom line is we are all pulling for the Leafs tonight, let's remember we are allies, not enemies.

You see that guys?  Carlton?  That's 2 people that thought I made a quality post...BOOM. 

And who knows how many more people also share this opinion, but just haven't written about me yet.  It's probably in the tens. 

And just now, I resisted the temptation to make a quality joke about WIGWAL's wife and who she'll be "pulling" tonight, even though you'll all agree that the joke was right there for the making.  It hurts not to make the joke...hurts bad. 

So obviously I've made an adjustment for the better of the board community.  You're welcome.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: leafsjunkie on April 23, 2018, 02:14:06 PM
I've been here since sometime in the late 90's.

I used to post more, years and years ago, but time doesn't permit me to really type out stuff with the accuracy and details I'd like. There are only so many hours in a day.

Yes, I myself had issues with Nik in the past, but, having time over the years to read almost every post, I can say that Nik is a very smart person, who writes well and seems to be well versed in a lot of area's.

Typing / text, has NO expression, you can't see the persons face or body language. Sometimes it can come across rude or brash or whatever.

I'm sure a lot of times, I was feeling butthurt with Nik's careful and well thought out / written, responses.
But that's on me, for maybe not articulating my point with info and facts and having my weak opinions shoved back.

Also, eye's lie, I like to watch games as much as the next guy, but just because (insert name here) 'Jake Gardiner' makes a mistake during a game (or even two), doesn't make Jake hot garbage that anyone would trade for a bag of pucks, I do like what all these deeper numbers show, analytics are a great thing. There is a reason eye witness accounts aren't the greatest things, people see / interpret things, wrong, a lot of the time.

As well, while watching a game on TV, you are at the mercy of what is being shown, you can not see the entire ice and any developing plays not on camera, it's is deceiving too.

Anyways, just my two cents, if you don't like what someone posted, don't read it all / don't reply, ignore, or you can always reply with your own facts and interpretation and not take offence to someone challenging your opinion. This is what a forum is for.

Just know though, if you post something basic, like the 'leafs at the best and are going to win the cup this year' and they've been awful for a decade, etc... the post is not going to have great responses.

p.s. If you think bar room banter doesn't turn into this type of stuff on the forums, you are crazy. My buddies and I just last week were in heated discussions at the bar, re: old school eye test VS. advanced stats.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 23, 2018, 02:15:33 PM
Your restraint is really humbling Frank, thank you.

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 02:15:36 PM

Two very good posts right here.

I'm at times probably a little more abrasive here than others, but I think that's just the Scotsman in me, having a heated discourse with a stranger is one of the first signs of a budding friendship for many of my people.

The people that are advocating extremely punitive solutions in this discourse are the ones that maybe need to chill out a bit.

Bottom line is we are all pulling for the Leafs tonight, let's remember we are allies, not enemies.

You see that guys?  Carlton?  That's 2 people that thought I made a quality post...BOOM. 

And who knows how many more people also share this opinion, but just haven't written about me yet.  It's probably in the tens. 

And just now, I resisted the temptation to make a quality joke about WIGWAL's wife and who she'll be "pulling" tonight, even though you'll all agree that the joke was right there for the making.  It hurts not to make the joke...hurts bad. 

So obviously I've made an adjustment for the better of the board community.  You're welcome.

I vote Frank E as our new TMLFans overlord!  ;D
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 23, 2018, 02:28:04 PM
What I find remarkable on this board is the relative absence of trolling/bullying, so some of the posts in this thread are surprising to me. Compared to Reddit this place is incredibly civilized. It's important not to lose sight of the fact that disagreeing (or even strongly disagreeing) isn't bullying, it's debate.

I also don't find this place to be especially analytics-heavy. I think the main reason readership/comments are disappearing is because message boards themselves are archaic, not because of the types of discussions happening on this board. I'm glad that some people have stuck around, but not surprised that many haven't.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 02:35:03 PM
What I find remarkable on this board is the relative absence of trolling/bullying, so some of the posts in this thread are surprising to me. Compared to Reddit this place is incredibly civilized. It's important not to lose sight of the fact that disagreeing (or even strongly disagreeing) isn't bullying, it's debate.

I also don't find this place to be especially analytics-heavy. I think the main reason readership/comments are disappearing is because message boards themselves are archaic, not because of the types of discussions happening on this board. I'm glad that some people have stuck around, but not surprised that many haven't.

Yeah I mean everything flows through a larger community like Reddit & Facebook nowadays. I've had to mute a bunch of Leafs ones on Facebook because I felt like I was drowning in TRADE MATTHEWS and MARNER IS TOO WEAK.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 23, 2018, 02:43:56 PM
p.s. If you think bar room banter doesn't turn into this type of stuff on the forums, you are crazy. My buddies and I just last week were in heated discussions at the bar, re: old school eye test VS. advanced stats.

I was going to say...some people here seem to be drinking in really terrible bars.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 23, 2018, 02:55:49 PM
I used to post more.  Then I had kids, and those cost money.  Money comes from work.

I like the site,  I like the posters, I think you're all just tense because it's the playoffs.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 23, 2018, 03:14:06 PM
I just want to remind everyone that this is the board on which a parody discussion of Tolstoy's Anna Karenina broke out in a GDT thread.  In a playoff GDT thread.

I'm sorry some people aren't feeling welcome to post.  I get a lot of fun out of participating here, and that is the beginning and end of this service's reason for being.  (Thank you again Rick & mods!)  I would just say, if you have had a bad experience in the past, or have always been reluctant to post, give it a try again, or for the first time.  Any online crowd always has the need for fresh voices, and many of them.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 03:58:22 PM
I have absolutely no issue with the analytics or the wealth of data that some of you guys have a lot of knowledge about.  In fact I welcome that.  Herman in particular is knowledgeable to the point that he could easily start working for Sportsnet tomorrow and he would fit right in.  He's generally cool to chat with on here also.  I do find some of his comments here to be troubling, however.

To be honest, and I'm sorry but I can't think of any other way to say this, Nik the Trik is the problem on here and Carlton the Bear is enabling him.  What I find with Nik is that he is extremely condescending and he does not even consider what other people say.  And if you read his responses in this thread, he doesn't even care.  Not only that but I don't even find him very knowledgeable and quite often he is flat out wrong.  This becomes even more frustrating when he doesn't own up to his own mistakes and argues to the bitter end.

TL;DR, I don't have an issue with the "advanced" discussion on here.  What I have issue with is the level of rudeness and abrasiveness paired with the unwillingness of people to listen to others or even consider other points of view.  It's not what's being said that's the problem, it's the way people are going about it.

One thought I did have was to create a "casual" discussion sub-forum where some of us could interact without the condescending BS.

I don't like advocating for people to be banned or for moderation to be changed, however this thread did bring up a legitimate problem and those are the most direct solutions I can think of.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 23, 2018, 04:20:50 PM

Just so people know, this is the sort of thing being referenced:

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=3852.msg300572#msg300572 (http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=3852.msg300572#msg300572)

Feel free to read for yourself and decide what's what.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 04:28:20 PM
**Cues Carlton the Bear to pick Nik the Trik's side and enable his trolling further...**
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 23, 2018, 04:37:06 PM
What I find remarkable on this board is the relative absence of trolling/bullying, so some of the posts in this thread are surprising to me. Compared to Reddit this place is incredibly civilized. It's important not to lose sight of the fact that disagreeing (or even strongly disagreeing) isn't bullying, it's debate.

I also don't find this place to be especially analytics-heavy. I think the main reason readership/comments are disappearing is because message boards themselves are archaic, not because of the types of discussions happening on this board. I'm glad that some people have stuck around, but not surprised that many haven't.

I agree with all of this.

Like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to the analytics. Sometimes I just want to talk hockey but I do value what analytics can offer. I mean, numbers generally don't lie. My eyes often do. I realize that the numbers side of it today is "talking hockey" and it's just my stubborn way of looking at things that gets in the way. That and I really need to sit down and look at the analytic side of things to understand it, then I'll surely be all in.

Anyways, trade Gardiner(not for a bag of pucks) and I'll be okay with everything in the world.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 04:39:05 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 23, 2018, 04:42:40 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

It depends on the series. Last year vs. Washington was no biggie and the collapse vs. Boston was, well, not as good.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: louisstamos on April 23, 2018, 04:43:06 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 04:46:19 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

It depends on the series. Last year vs. Washington was no biggie and the collapse vs. Boston was, well, not as good.

I was in a hotel lobby somewhere watching the Boston game. I was yelling at the screen. Some of the other hotel patrons were considering an intervention, I believe.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 04:47:01 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...

Im glad it is more than ice cream. we need to know you care.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 23, 2018, 04:55:55 PM
I yell at the tv screen on a good game...like spit coming out of my mouth kind of yelling...lately often at Nylander.  I don't think he hears me though.

On bad games, I'm silent.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 05:14:49 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...

I felt nauseas after the first two games. Ugh.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 05:15:26 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...

I felt nauseas after the first two games. Ugh.
Were you on a bender?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 05:48:09 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...

I felt nauseas after the first two games. Ugh.
Were you on a bender?
I predict I will be after tonight!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 05:57:00 PM
Iím going very subtly change the topic of conversation.

So, how physically ill do people feel when the leafs lose a playoff series?  Nausea anyone?  Actual vomit?  Coma?  Or just too much ice cream??

A little beyond too much Ice Cream.  I would characterize it as a gut punch.  Like when it lands on 00 in roulette...

I felt nauseas after the first two games. Ugh.
Were you on a bender?
I predict I will be after tonight!
How ironic.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 23, 2018, 06:49:50 PM
Scorching hot take: Andersen needed to steal Game 5, now Matthews/Nylander have to steal Game 6.

Actually, we might still need Andersen to stand on his head anyway.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 07:12:09 PM
I have absolutely no issue with the analytics or the wealth of data that some of you guys have a lot of knowledge about.  In fact I welcome that.  Herman in particular is knowledgeable to the point that he could easily start working for Sportsnet tomorrow and he would fit right in.  He's generally cool to chat with on here also.  I do find some of his comments here to be troubling, however.

To be honest, and I'm sorry but I can't think of any other way to say this, Nik the Trik is the problem on here and Carlton the Bear is enabling him.  What I find with Nik is that he is extremely condescending and he does not even consider what other people say.  And if you read his responses in this thread, he doesn't even care.  Not only that but I don't even find him very knowledgeable and quite often he is flat out wrong.  This becomes even more frustrating when he doesn't own up to his own mistakes and argues to the bitter end.

TL;DR, I don't have an issue with the "advanced" discussion on here.  What I have issue with is the level of rudeness and abrasiveness paired with the unwillingness of people to listen to others or even consider other points of view.  It's not what's being said that's the problem, it's the way people are going about it.

One thought I did have was to create a "casual" discussion sub-forum where some of us could interact without the condescending BS.

I don't like advocating for people to be banned or for moderation to be changed, however this thread did bring up a legitimate problem and those are the most direct solutions I can think of.

Iíll ask one more time that you please look in the mirror. Youíre not the victim here.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 07:16:03 PM
I have absolutely no issue with the analytics or the wealth of data that some of you guys have a lot of knowledge about.  In fact I welcome that.  Herman in particular is knowledgeable to the point that he could easily start working for Sportsnet tomorrow and he would fit right in.  He's generally cool to chat with on here also.  I do find some of his comments here to be troubling, however.

To be honest, and I'm sorry but I can't think of any other way to say this, Nik the Trik is the problem on here and Carlton the Bear is enabling him.  What I find with Nik is that he is extremely condescending and he does not even consider what other people say.  And if you read his responses in this thread, he doesn't even care.  Not only that but I don't even find him very knowledgeable and quite often he is flat out wrong.  This becomes even more frustrating when he doesn't own up to his own mistakes and argues to the bitter end.

TL;DR, I don't have an issue with the "advanced" discussion on here.  What I have issue with is the level of rudeness and abrasiveness paired with the unwillingness of people to listen to others or even consider other points of view.  It's not what's being said that's the problem, it's the way people are going about it.

One thought I did have was to create a "casual" discussion sub-forum where some of us could interact without the condescending BS.

I don't like advocating for people to be banned or for moderation to be changed, however this thread did bring up a legitimate problem and those are the most direct solutions I can think of.

Iíll ask one more time that you please look in the mirror. Youíre not the victim here.
Why because I finally snapped after years and years of putting up with Nik the Trik's bull#$#%? Whatever. I probably said what everyone else wanted to but was too afraid to come out and say it. I will not be intimidated or bullied by you guys.

By the way you are bringing up stuff from close to a year ago. Just look at Nik the Trik's posts in this thread and it will tell you all you need to know.

You have stooped to a new low, Herman.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 23, 2018, 08:54:53 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.

I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

And my seven year old is yelling at me for yelling at the tv. Bedtime for one of us!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 09:04:07 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.

I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

And my seven year old is yelling at me for yelling at the tv. Bedtime for one of us!
It's better to treat the problem at the source. And if the source can't refrain from being a dick, then the mods should silence them. IMO.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 23, 2018, 09:04:52 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.

I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

And my seven year old is yelling at me for yelling at the tv. Bedtime for one of us!

I'm sure she'll tell you the score in the morning.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 09:08:23 PM
I liked the idea of having a low key, fan boy, all positive thread.

It would be great if this was that thread.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 09:08:47 PM
Go leafs go.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 23, 2018, 09:10:33 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.

I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

And my seven year old is yelling at me for yelling at the tv. Bedtime for one of us!

I'm sure she'll tell you the score in the morning.

Bill has left the building! For bed.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 23, 2018, 09:17:30 PM
No need to talk down to people, and if someone does, consider their opinion invalidated.

I don't necessarily disagree but I don't think that's any sort of standard you can have for a relatively open message board. All of the mods/staff here are doing this on a volunteer basis and they're doing their best to uphold what are pretty clear cut rules. I don't think it would be fair to ask them to ensure every post is sufficiently respectful or tonally friendly or whatever. Not only because that's a subjective concept but also because my bet is everyone would have a floating standard based on whether or not they agreed with a post.

If you think a poster is too dismissive or rude or whatever, there is an ignore function. I really don't see how people making liberal use of that wouldn't entirely solve the issue here. If someone doesn't like how I, or anyone else, posts...put me or whoever on ignore.

I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

And my seven year old is yelling at me for yelling at the tv. Bedtime for one of us!

I'm sure she'll tell you the score in the morning.

Bill has left the building! For bed.

Bill, I'm sure your daughter doesn't call you that.  I think it's still you.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 09:25:36 PM
How come you have an outdoor bed, Bill?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 23, 2018, 09:26:19 PM
I liked the idea of having a low key, fan boy, all positive thread.

It would be great if this was that thread.

I think the problem is an education one.

Internet forums are just like S&M.  You need a safe word.  Now in the early days of the internet, that safe word was Hitler.  Basically an argument would go on until one person called the other person Hitler, and then the argument was over. 

So you see, we don't need a special forum, we just need a code word which means "I'm done".   
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 23, 2018, 09:26:48 PM
How come you have an outdoor bed, Bill?

Yeah Bill!!!!  There are a lot of holes in your story here.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 23, 2018, 09:27:12 PM
How come you have an outdoor bed, Bill?

Have you checked the temperature? Summer is back!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 23, 2018, 09:27:54 PM
I didn't mean the mods should do it. I meant if someone is biligerent to a poster, that poster could just ignore the jerky part or the entire post of the othe

"Why didn't you counter my argument?"

"Cause you were a dick about it."

Right, no, I agree. This should be able to be resolved by people using either the ignore function the board provides or being mature enough to just personally ignore posts they don't like.

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 10:07:20 PM
How come you have an outdoor bed, Bill?

Have you checked the temperature? Summer is back!

It's still rainy season. Tarp up!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 10:25:23 PM
Everybody in good spirits after a win now? Everybody get what they wanted to off their chest? Great.

Let's turn this thread back to what it's original purpose was, which is "to vent about the team, and who should or shouldn't play, based on the ol' fashioned eye test, please post here". Nobody here has any objections to the use of this thread for that reason. I think it's a great idea quite frankly.

If anyone wants to carry on the conversation that this thread has turned into today... feel free to do it via PM to whichever members of the moderation/admin team you'd like.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 10:27:44 PM
I'll start: Hainsey has been fantastic the past couple of games, even if his advanced numbers are dogpoo in them. The whole team, but him in particular, have been playing Pastrnak a lot more physically than they did earlier in the series and it's been a massive improvement.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 23, 2018, 10:30:34 PM
I gotta say Polak has looked serviceable too. Still prefer Johnsson to Komarov though.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 23, 2018, 10:32:54 PM
I'll start: Hainsey has been fantastic the past couple of games, even if his advanced numbers are dogpoo in them. The whole team, but him in particular, have been playing Pastrnak a lot more physically than they did earlier in the series and it's been a massive improvement.

In what I'm sure is a logical fallacy, I'll say that we have pretty good evidence reason to think that what separates the Leafs from a Championship team isn't the difference between Ron Hainsey and whoever.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 23, 2018, 10:57:56 PM
Are we allowed to mention save percentage in this thread because I think the leafs have a strong chance whenever their save percentage is .970 or higher.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 23, 2018, 11:08:40 PM
I'll start: Hainsey has been fantastic the past couple of games, even if his advanced numbers are dogpoo in them. The whole team, but him in particular, have been playing Pastrnak a lot more physically than they did earlier in the series and it's been a massive improvement.

He's been better at clearing the front of the net but man does he ever give the puck away a ton. He seems to be more effective with less ice-time though. Old man needs his rest.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 23, 2018, 11:34:38 PM
Are we allowed to mention save percentage in this thread because I think the leafs have a strong chance whenever their save percentage is .970 or higher.
No, only +/- allowed! I think we have a strong chance when Andersen allows less goals than Rask.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 23, 2018, 11:55:48 PM
Are we allowed to mention save percentage in this thread because I think the leafs have a strong chance whenever their save percentage is .970 or higher.
No, only +/- allowed! I think we have a strong chance when Andersen allows less goals than Rask.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/pcIdLXJXwAQZG/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 24, 2018, 01:41:43 AM
If anyone wants to  carry on the conversation that this thread has turned into today...feel free to do it via PM to whichever members of the moderation/admin team you'd like.


Which is what I did and stated in part:

"...it's not that people are offended by what one says but how it is said, phrased, and deliberately thrown in general to a poster's face, as if whatever the poster is saying either amounts to nothing or that the person is made to look and feel dumbed down.

...Don't get me wrong, there have been some very good and wonderful posters around that make this site all the better, without fear of reprisal or severe talkback.  Unfortunately, there are a few who've managed to overpower the good conversationists out there, and thus spoil it for the many by the few.).

If TMLfans is to become a more inviting and less devisive site, then let the people who wish to post, write, and discuss subject matters differently, to engage and be involved without fear of verbal retribution, put downs, or even verbal 'bullying' by those who choose to sound superior over others.

Perhaps there is a way to get around and for one to administer their complaints should the need necessitate -- the "Report to Moderator" button.  I have never used it, for the life of me, I don't know why.  Maybe only once and that was for something different.  If you could politely remind the posters of that button, and should someone need to use it to lodge a complaint, etc., that you moderators will look into it and respond to the poster via personal message.  That is probably the best way to go about it.

Pressing the "Ignore" button that is simple to do, but not when someone gives one a verbal putdown or brushback, however we may call it.  In this case, the "Report to Moderator" would serve it's purpose more fruitfully."
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Mr. Leaf on April 24, 2018, 02:36:16 AM
I gotta say Polak has looked serviceable too. Still prefer Johnsson to Komarov though.
I agree about Polak.  I love his physicality and it seems like he is getting a lot of shots on net from the point.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Arn on April 24, 2018, 03:42:15 AM
I think the main reason readership/comments are disappearing is because message boards themselves are archaic, not because of the types of discussions happening on this board. I'm glad that some people have stuck around, but not surprised that many haven't.

This is the key point for me. This is one of only 2 boards that I would use that is still relatively active. For example the first hockey board I ever used was for my local Belfast Giants, it was hugely active but Facebook and Twitter have taken over and in fact the forum on it has had about 6 posts in the last 4 years now. This one has survived in spite of those outside influences and changes.

Personally as someone living 3250 miles away and often watching the games at midnight at home on my own the GDTs have been my main reason for using this site. I enjoy having a bit of "company" to shoot the shit with as the game goes on. On occasion I pop into other sections of the site (the MLB/Jays section especially for similar reasons). If the Leafs sign someone I'll have a look on the thread to get some opinions/articles/links. But after a while I tend to check out of the thread when I get bored of it.

I think the site is what you make it and yes I will freely admit I read some poster's posts more than I read others' or certainly will maybe read some in more depth and scan over other posts.

As for this thread itself, I like the idea of having a more conversational Game Day Thread kind of atmosphere. But I do fear that just saying things like "Polak is class" then banning people from using certain ways to quantify why they think that is going to just lead to different kinds of shouting matches.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: MadMonk on April 24, 2018, 08:08:57 AM
I haven't posted in over ten years or so.  Only reason for my absence was pure laziness after forgetting my password and not wanting to set up a new one.

I enjoy the banter here and it doesn't really seem to get too personal in my mind but like everything else on the internet, it's hard to sense others emotion and sarcasm. When compared to any FB or YouTube comments you might decide to read, this site feels like sunny day at the park. 

You all seem like decent, knowledgeable folk.  Nothing really needs changing, in my mind.

Go Leafs Go!!!!!

Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 24, 2018, 09:51:14 AM
Some posters simply aren't as vested as others and instead of arguing their point to death they give up. Not everyone cares or has the time to go back and forth 30 times. So at the end of the day you feel like you lost the argument or your point gets thrown out and it feels kind of shitty that this ALWAYS happens here.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 24, 2018, 10:30:12 AM
I'll start: Hainsey has been fantastic the past couple of games, even if his advanced numbers are dogpoo in them. The whole team, but him in particular, have been playing Pastrnak a lot more physically than they did earlier in the series and it's been a massive improvement.

I gotta say Polak has looked serviceable too. Still prefer Johnsson to Komarov though.

And Zaitsev probably had his best game all season last night. 

Holy shit, a couple of wins and all of a sudden the right side of our defense is no longer a problem!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: applecheeks on April 24, 2018, 10:48:19 AM
Some posters simply aren't as vested as others and instead of arguing their point to death they give up. Not everyone cares or has the time to go back and forth 30 times. So at the end of the day you feel like you lost the argument or your point gets thrown out and it feels kind of shitty that this ALWAYS happens here.

Yup!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 24, 2018, 10:56:18 AM

Another problem here is that way, way too many people listen to mods when they say to move on from a subject and take it to PMs.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 24, 2018, 10:59:48 AM

Another problem here is that way, way too many people listen to mods when they say to move on from a subject and take it to PMs.

I don't think the Prime Ministers of Canada and England care. 
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 24, 2018, 11:00:48 AM

Another problem here is that way, way too many people listen to mods when they say to move on from a subject and take it to PMs.

I don't think the Prime Ministers of Canada and England care.

Post-Mortems.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 24, 2018, 11:06:08 AM

Another problem here is that way, way too many people listen to mods when they say to move on from a subject and take it to PMs.

I don't think the Prime Ministers of Canada and England care.

Post-Mortems.

Is the safe word still waffle-cheeks?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Nik Bethune on April 24, 2018, 11:11:12 AM
Is the safe word still waffle-cheeks?

Nope, we've changed it up to floccinaucinihilipilification.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 24, 2018, 11:19:29 AM
Just dropping by to casually say that Marner seems to slowly be taking on a leadership role. It wouldn't surprise me to see him named captain the year after next (unless management has already made up their mind about Matthews).
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Chris on April 24, 2018, 11:25:28 AM
Marner is really impressing me. He is physical and reasonably effective along the boards for his size and seems to have really bought into the team concept, paying attention to defense and playing a complete game. I don't know how well he might hold up over multiple series playing that way, but hopefully we get the chance to find out.

Have also noticed Matthews throwing his weight around a little more which I think is a good thing.

Defensively, Dermott seems to have hit a bit of a wall. Doesn't look very confident lately, making way more mistakes.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Stronger Than All on April 24, 2018, 11:35:36 AM
Marner is unbelievable.  My favorite player.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 24, 2018, 11:36:53 AM
Is the safe word still waffle-cheeks?

Nope, we've changed it up to floccinaucinihilipilification.

I miss all the good meetings.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: applecheeks on April 24, 2018, 11:41:01 AM

Another problem here is that way, way too many people listen to mods when they say to move on from a subject and take it to PMs.

I don't think the Prime Ministers of Canada and England care.

Post-Mortems.

Is the safe word still waffle-cheeks?

No., it might be MeH! I've enjoyed this site for over 20 years. Great insight into our beloved Maple leafs. But if someone has an opinion, isn't that what the mods want, feedback MeH!  No, just wanna debate, argue and sometimes insult. We aren't all writers but, i for one enjoy the hockey knowledge that "unites us all"
Thanks for the heads up on the Athletic. Great reading and worth the $. 
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Rob on April 24, 2018, 11:53:46 AM
Is the safe word still waffle-cheeks?

Nope, we've changed it up to floccinaucinihilipilification.

I miss all the good meetings.

There was punch and pie too. 
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 24, 2018, 12:27:58 PM
Does anyone know what kind of witchcraft Jake Guentzel applies pre-playoffs to make himself into a 70 goal scorer year after year?  Can we get some of that?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 24, 2018, 02:12:40 PM
Still way too many brutal turnovers for my liking and it seemed (at least for a while there, not sure of the final stats) they were getting eaten alive in the faceoff circle, especially in their own end. Should Bozak just take every draw possible against Bergeron from now on?

Marner was sensational again and has been by far the most dangerous Leaf in the series, but Freddie Andersen's performance, particularly in the first period, was the difference-maker again.

A Bruins fan friend of mine was telling Leafs fans on Facebook to post "Mercy" and he wouldn't make fun of them for the rest of the series and some people actually did. Oh how I hope this comes back to bite him!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bender on April 24, 2018, 04:19:17 PM
Still way too many brutal turnovers for my liking and it seemed (at least for a while there, not sure of the final stats) they were getting eaten alive in the faceoff circle, especially in their own end. Should Bozak just take every draw possible against Bergeron from now on?

Marner was sensational again and has been by far the most dangerous Leaf in the series, but Freddie Andersen's performance, particularly in the first period, was the difference-maker again.

A Bruins fan friend of mine was telling Leafs fans on Facebook to post "Mercy" and he wouldn't make fun of them for the rest of the series and some people actually did. Oh how I hope this comes back to bite him!

I really wonder about Bergeron sweeping and taking faceoffs and how confused I still am about the faceoff rule. Why do the Leafs seem to be setting down and Bergeron is getting away with sweeping motions 90% of the time?
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 24, 2018, 04:32:25 PM
I really wonder about Bergeron sweeping and taking faceoffs and how confused I still am about the faceoff rule. Why do the Leafs seem to be setting down and Bergeron is getting away with sweeping motions 90% of the time?

https://www.nhl.com/video/know-the-rules-faceoffs/t-277350912/c-43456903

'New' rule is that on d-zone draws, the defending faceoff player has to have his stick down first.

Technically, the attacker also needs to touch his stick down in the white of the circle, but refs and linesmen only have two eyes each and a lot of things to watch for.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 25, 2018, 05:42:37 PM
The Leafs best players (outside of Freddie and Marner) have yet to be their best players.

Tonight is the night. Go Leafs Go!
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 26, 2018, 07:11:31 AM
Shoulda, coulda, woulda , but didn't.

The Leafs had it for two periods before they fell apart in the third.  But then, is that really surprising when this team has had trouble holding a lead all year?  By our standards, no.

Oh well, I expect changes coming.  Even so, this team has so far brought nothing but optimism to us fans, and the hope that, with all of the young talent the itganization has, they'll have much greater success in future playoffs to come.
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: Frycer14 on April 28, 2018, 11:07:58 AM
Love the idea of this thread; I've re-joined the site just to comment in it.

1) According to my eye test, the bruins were possibly the worst team that the leafs could have faced in the first round, because of their maturity and suffocating/physical style really effectively countering the leafs' talent age/physical immaturity. I'd like to think we'd have fared better against Tampa or even Pittsburgh, as it likely would have been more run and gun track meet which favoured our strengths.

2) It was really apparent in the series to see the difference in playoff hockey vs the reg season. Players like Reilly, Polak, Hyman, Marner, Marleau, and Brown were the only skaters that really stepped up their intensity to make a play or break up one.... most of the youth looked unprepared for the transition to the game the bruins forced us to.

3) Regarding the site, I'll say it here instead of via PM, because I think it's a positive - you've got a poster in Herman that would make for a great moderator or admin based on how he contributes, and unless he doesn't want to help out in that regard, I think it would be a no-brainer in terms of improving the site.

Regards,
Herman's Mother
Frycer14
Title: Re: Leafs Playoffs - Casual Fan Edition
Post by: herman on April 28, 2018, 11:14:24 AM
Thanks, mom!

The admins and mods do a great job here already, which is what lets me be myself and (hopefully) a contributing member.

Y'all wouldn't want me at the controls (think Seth Griffith wallpaper and Nylander hair flick gifs everywhere).