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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: Rob on April 08, 2018, 10:12:48 PM

Title: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Rob on April 08, 2018, 10:12:48 PM
Boston it is.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 08, 2018, 10:14:40 PM
Boston it is.

Bring it.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: lamajama on April 08, 2018, 10:17:42 PM
Ugh. This is not what I would have preferred...
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Captain Canuck on April 08, 2018, 10:32:46 PM
The Leafs have waited 5 years for this chance, time for some payback!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Stronger Than All on April 08, 2018, 10:34:57 PM
I want revenge, pleas get it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: PrestigeWorldwide on April 09, 2018, 02:41:56 AM
Yikes, tough one! Well, if theyíre making it to the dance they were going to have to play them eventually anyway. Letís go boys!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Arn on April 09, 2018, 05:15:21 AM
Boston it is.

Leafs in 5.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Bender on April 09, 2018, 07:29:45 AM
Boston in 6. Hope it doesn't come to that though...
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2018, 08:06:37 AM
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 09, 2018, 08:16:42 AM
It's kind of crazy that we're here and this is now normal.  Two seasons ago Leafs were 30th (OK, they held back a bunch of young guys on purpose so the team might have been better than 30th) and now 2 short years later, we're not only expecting playoffs, but we're expecting some form of playoff success.  95 points last year, 105 points this year, I can honestly say this team might grow to be 110+ points in the next few seasons.  I never thought i'd live to be a fan of a team that was this good. 

Enjoy.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 09, 2018, 08:39:30 AM
It's kind of crazy that we're here and this is now normal.  Two seasons ago Leafs were 30th (OK, they held back a bunch of young guys on purpose so the team might have been better than 30th) and now 2 short years later, we're not only expecting playoffs, but we're expecting some form of playoff success.  95 points last year, 105 points this year, I can honestly say this team might grow to be 110+ points in the next few seasons.  I never thought i'd live to be a fan of a team that was this good. 

Enjoy.

This has been the best season since I began following the team.  For me, playoff success would be beating BOS (i.e., winning a round).  That's a step forward.

I would be disappointed if they were blown out by the Bs, swept or in 5 games. 

However, if they do beat BOS then I think the confidence boost would hike their chances in a second-round matchup against TB.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 09:44:21 AM

This will be a very interesting matchup.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: puckinthehead on April 09, 2018, 09:47:23 AM
Leafs I noticed were getting much better at stopping 3rd period meltdowns. Learning that alone makes them a stronger team this time around. If they can keep their confidence high, all that skill and speed will naturally follow them around. Leafs in 5   
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Stronger Than All on April 09, 2018, 10:06:25 AM
I think we beat them with speed.

If Bergeron is going to focus on Matthews than Marner should be able to step up.  I also see JVR coming up big as well.

I can't stand Marchand or the B's.  Let's get some revenge.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 09, 2018, 10:09:13 AM
Leafs I noticed were getting much better at stopping 3rd period meltdowns. Learning that alone makes them a stronger team this time around. If they can keep their confidence high, all that skill and speed will naturally follow them around. Leafs in 5

I like that the Leafs got better as the season went on.  Early season lineup didn't have Dermott, Kapanen, Johnsson, those 3 guys alone make our depth way better.  Hopefully video-game Marner shows up and propels that 2nd line to mucho offense.  Matthews seems like he's back and ready to go, I can't wait for this series to get going.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 09, 2018, 10:29:14 AM
Marner/Kadri/Marleau will have an opportunity with Matthews drawing Bergeron. Our offensive depth needs to shine. Let's frustrate these bullies with our speed. Be elusive, quick and deadly. Let them chase the game.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: nutman on April 09, 2018, 10:47:41 AM
Payback is at hand... go get em Leafs.  If we use our speed we will win this.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 09, 2018, 12:00:56 PM
I like the optimism here and I definitely think we can win this series but Boston has shown it's very good at playing a shutdown game.  And winning even when they have key guys out.  And they have home ice.  I don't see the Leafs winning this (if they do) in less than 7.  It's going to be a war.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 09, 2018, 12:01:03 PM

This will be a very interesting matchup.

How does this model work?  Why would the leafs be favored over Boston, Tampa and everyone else in their division?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2018, 12:13:21 PM
How does this model work?  Why would the leafs be favored over Boston, Tampa and everyone else in their division?


Toronto's shot generation numbers are insanely good:

(http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/shotLocOff/1718/TOR)
(http://hockeyviz.com/fixedImg/shotLocOffPP/1718/TOR)

Those red and purple shades show that they get a crap-ton more shots off in the slot than other teams.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 12:19:11 PM
How does this model work?  Why would the leafs be favored over Boston, Tampa and everyone else in their division?

Micah mentioned last week that Toronto's powerplay (particularly our shot volume and location) was a large contributing factor.

Here's his breakdown of the model: http://hockeyviz.com/txt/edgar

The line up estimation aspect takes into account the probability of a player under contract participating in the game as well as the projected TOI. Where Toronto might grade out above this model is that our deployment has generally been curated for balance throughout the season. Boston is top heavy up front and at the back, so their only adjustment option is to spread thinner. Toronto has the option to give Matthews, Nylander, Kadri, Marner, JvR even more minutes than they've received in the regular season and stack their incremental gains to tip win probabilities if they so choose.

Every individual's rates for shots, penalties, etc. is factored into the whole and the single game being played is run through a simulator for a result spread. Each second of the game is assessed for penalty chance or shot chance and the probabilities and rates are run accordingly.

Interestingly, he also has Minnesota with a small leg up on Winnipeg (which models out to overwhelming favourites in others') due to their defensive prowess at reducing shots (even without Suter).

Edit: I should also add that Micah noted that this iteration of the model didn't do so hot in the regular season.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 09, 2018, 01:01:49 PM
Edit: I should also add that Micah noted that this iteration of the model didn't do so hot in the regular season.

OK, what?  So his model isn't predictive at all?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
Here's one area where the Leafs have a pretty huge edge over Boston: Since January 1st the Bruins are 5th in the league in minor penalties taken with 145 in 45 games. The Leafs in that same span are 30th with 107 minors in 42 games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 09, 2018, 01:06:51 PM
Really glad to see there are no afternoon games, or stupid Sunday games, so far.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: iwas11in67 on April 09, 2018, 01:32:04 PM
Leafs road to the cup is extremely hard - Bruins, Lightning, Penquins and then the Predators. No wonder they call this the hardest sport to win the championship. To win 4 from each of those teams without home ice will be very tough.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: nutman on April 09, 2018, 01:52:41 PM
Leafs road to the cup is extremely hard - Bruins, Lightning, Penquins and then the Predators. No wonder they call this the hardest sport to win the championship. To win 4 from each of those teams without home ice will be very tough.


Tampa, Pitt, and Nash have not made it there yet. Upsets can happen, but ya I agree it will be a tough road for whoever wins it all.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 09, 2018, 02:14:50 PM
Where's the thread from the beginning of the season where all you idiots made your predictions on where teams were to end up today?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Rob on April 09, 2018, 02:24:04 PM
Where's the thread from the beginning of the season where all you idiots made your predictions on where teams were to end up today?

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=4677.0
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 09, 2018, 02:32:09 PM
It's funny looking back at the old thread of predictions and seeing how highly regarded Edmonton was before the season began.  ;D
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 09, 2018, 02:45:39 PM
Nik was on fire (he wasn't alone in many of these predictions)...


You all know how this goes.

West

1. Edmonton
2. Nashville
3. Anaheim
4. Calgary
5. Chicago
6. Dallas
7. San Jose
8. Minnesota
9. St. Louis
10. Los Angeles
11. Arizona
12. Winnipeg
13. Vancouver
14. Colorado
15. Vegas

East

1. Pittsburgh
2. Tampa
3. Washington
4. Florida
5. Toronto
6. Montreal
7. Columbus
8. Philly
9. NYR
10. Ottawa
11. NYI
12. Carolina
13. Buffalo
14. Boston
15. New Jersey
16. Detroit

Cup Pick: Tampa over Edmonton
Awards: Connor McDavid for all of them. Norris, Adams, the lot.


12, 14, and 15 in the West all make the playoffs, while 1, 4, 5, 6 miss.
His East wasn't as bad, but Boston and New Jersey had way better years than he (or anyone, in NJ's case) expected.  Montreal was the only real miss at the top of the east.


As much as I'd love to point and laugh- I don't think I would have guessed much differently (except for Boston and Winnipeg).  What a weird year.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 09, 2018, 02:46:22 PM
I'm proud to say I did not pick Edmonton to win their division.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 09, 2018, 02:48:32 PM
Where's the thread from the beginning of the season where all you idiots made your predictions on where teams were to end up today?

http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=4677.0
I had TOR playing OTT first round... I called 6 right in the east and just 5 right in the west. Teams to make the playoff that is.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2018, 02:52:05 PM
*looks at all my picks*

Well, better luck next year.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 02:54:12 PM
This is not my own observation, but has there ever been a Leafs defenseman as unpolarizing as Travis Dermott? Everybody, and I mean everybody, from the analytically-inclined to the eye-guys-for-lyfe loves him.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 02:55:15 PM
I sort of think that if the Leafs didn't completely pillory Steve Mason in the season opener, he would've gotten more leash with the Jets, and thus they'd miss out on the playoffs by a handful of points.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 09, 2018, 02:58:31 PM
This is not my own observation, but has there ever been a Leafs defenseman as unpolarizing as Travis Dermott? Everybody, and I mean everybody, from the analytically-inclined to the eye-guys-for-lyfe loves him.

Andreas Borgman doesn't like him.

Also, I'm curious to see what eyes-folk say about him when he doesn't have a 95.2% on-ice save percentage.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 09, 2018, 03:04:59 PM
I sort of think that if the Leafs didn't completely pillory Steve Mason in the season opener, he would've gotten more leash with the Jets, and thus they'd miss out on the playoffs by a handful of points.

It's almost like you want other Canadian teams to fail while the Leafs succeed.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 03:05:26 PM
This is not my own observation, but has there ever been a Leafs defenseman as unpolarizing as Travis Dermott? Everybody, and I mean everybody, from the analytically-inclined to the eye-guys-for-lyfe loves him.

Andreas Borgman doesn't like him.

Also, I'm curious to see what eyes-folk say about him when he doesn't have a 95.2% on-ice save percentage.

I am still a bit wary about some of the NZ pinches he makes, but he is pretty ridiculously successful a great majority of the time getting a stick on the puck and forcing it out of control. He has held back on blue-line pinches more than expected so I think he's actually playing his version of 'cautiously'.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 03:06:10 PM
I sort of think that if the Leafs didn't completely pillory Steve Mason in the season opener, he would've gotten more leash with the Jets, and thus they'd miss out on the playoffs by a handful of points.

It's almost like you want other Canadian teams to fail while the Leafs succeed.

Chaos is a ladder.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 09, 2018, 03:43:14 PM
This is not my own observation, but has there ever been a Leafs defenseman as unpolarizing as Travis Dermott? Everybody, and I mean everybody, from the analytically-inclined to the eye-guys-for-lyfe loves him.

Andreas Borgman doesn't like him.

Also, I'm curious to see what eyes-folk say about him when he doesn't have a 95.2% on-ice save percentage.

I am still a bit wary about some of the NZ pinches he makes, but he is pretty ridiculously successful a great majority of the time getting a stick on the puck and forcing it out of control. He has held back on blue-line pinches more than expected so I think he's actually playing his version of 'cautiously'.

What is his ceiling?  Can this guy get any better, or is he pretty much where he is going to be?  Someone I know said that they thought that he would end up being better than Rielly in a couple of years because Dermott is better in his own end.  I'm not sure I totally buy in to that, but I do think that Dermott skates incredibly well and seems to have good instincts.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 04:24:04 PM
What is his ceiling?  Can this guy get any better, or is he pretty much where he is going to be?  Someone I know said that they thought that he would end up being better than Rielly in a couple of years because Dermott is better in his own end.  I'm not sure I totally buy in to that, but I do think that Dermott skates incredibly well and seems to have good instincts.

This is merely how I see Dermott at this time:

Dermott is still growing his game. Transition is where he excels and is most noticeable. He's better at shot suppression than Rielly as a result of not letting plays develop in the NZ, but deep in the DZ with a cycle established, he is currently weaker than Rielly at breaking it. And Rielly is not that good at it. Polak is actually a really good complement to Dermott's game because they cover each others' weaknesses almost perfectly.

Offensive blue line and in, Rielly has the much higher ceiling. For the Leafs' purposes, Dermott is already more than fine as their strategy is basically bump the puck low to the forwards and occasionally pinch to bump the puck or wrist a tippable shot into the high slot. Rielly has better raw speed, but Dermott has better agility (see elusiveness on retrievals as well as recovery off slightly missed pinches/gap ups). Dermott can carry the puck low if he wants to (he did it frequently with the Marlies) but usually needs an offensive outlet to bag points. Rielly has more of a one-man-army capability to his offensive game (even more than Gardiner).

Dermott looks like a super solid #3D, who can play up in the first pair with a 1D partner.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 09, 2018, 05:21:14 PM
My predictions were spot on, he said proudly.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 09, 2018, 08:01:33 PM
I spent like 45 min this morning pulling our numbers together for comparison to the Bruins and then noticed that Dom was gradually putting these together. Their first line had a bit of a power outage towards the end (Bergeronís injury didnít help).

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: crazyperfectdevil on April 09, 2018, 08:07:59 PM
The way the playoffs are structured either way we were going to be in tough.  That being said Boston doesn't scare me.  I think they're banged up.  I think they've piqued too early.  I think this leaf's team beats washington last year.  Sports are always about Hope, Doubt and wild speculation.  I know I am biased toward the blue and white but screw it I say leafs in five .....another way one may put that ...4-1
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: disco on April 09, 2018, 08:51:06 PM
Leafs in 3.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 09, 2018, 08:54:47 PM
Leafs in 3.

I'd like to bid $1 Bob.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: AvroArrow on April 09, 2018, 09:19:33 PM
I think this is gonna go 7 games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: disco on April 09, 2018, 09:40:33 PM
On a more serious note I'm seeing that the Doc Emmerich NBC team is covering leafs/bruins. Some of those Bowen/Emmerich calls going to be epic!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Boston Leaf on April 10, 2018, 06:53:08 AM
On a more serious note I'm seeing that the Doc Emmerich NBC team is covering leafs/bruins. Some of those Bowen/Emmerich calls going to be epic!

Wow I am shocked they are not doing the Penguins/Flyers. NBC loves those two teams
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 10, 2018, 07:01:15 AM
Leafs in 6.  Psst...I have the Leafs winning it all in the NHL Bracket Challenge.   ;D
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 10, 2018, 08:10:18 AM
GO LEAFS GO!

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 10, 2018, 08:51:50 AM
On a more serious note I'm seeing that the Doc Emmerich NBC team is covering leafs/bruins. Some of those Bowen/Emmerich calls going to be epic!

He's doing them with Milbury AND McGuire though. Stick to the Canadian broadcast.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 10, 2018, 09:52:31 AM
It feels very odd to have next to no knowledge about the upcoming draft at this time of year.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 10, 2018, 12:08:01 PM
GO LEAFS GO!


There is way too much positivity surrounding this team.  We are setting ourselves up to fall from a very great height indeed.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 10, 2018, 12:49:15 PM
GO LEAFS GO!


There is way too much positivity surrounding this team.  We are setting ourselves up to fall from a very great height indeed.

Don't they have a "why they will win" article for each team in the playoffs?  Basically making the case that if players X, Y & Z perform on whatever team, it's enough for that team to win the Cup.  I've seen articles like this for other teams (also the opposite "why your team won't win")
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 10, 2018, 02:38:14 PM
Being so invested as a fan, it's hard for me to see things from a non-emotional perspective. What do fans of other teams think when they consider the Maple Leafs? I get nervous when strong teams like the Bruins or Lighting come to town. Is this what others are starting to feel when the Leafs come? I'm used to seeing our team play the back-up.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 10, 2018, 02:40:09 PM
GO LEAFS GO!


There is way too much positivity surrounding this team.  We are setting ourselves up to fall from a very great height indeed.
We're in uncharted territory. My grumpy die hard self is very confused. It's not just "homer" talk anymore. We're actually a pretty good franchise?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 10, 2018, 02:52:07 PM
Being so invested as a fan, it's hard for me to see things from a non-emotional perspective. What do fans of other teams think when they consider the Maple Leafs? I get nervous when strong teams like the Bruins or Lighting come to town. Is this what others are starting to feel when the Leafs come? I'm used to seeing our team play the back-up.

Boston fans on reddit are a bit afraid of our speed and Andersen getting hot at the right time.

One of the coaches we faced towards the end of the season remarked to reporters that he found it troubling to deal with our depth; I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like, 'They play Leo Komarov on the 4th line!'.

Cool thing is, I think the Leafs still have gains to be had on the wings (Johnsson over Komarov, Carrick over Polak if Zaitsev continues his stretch of surprisingly solid March play) and in loading minutes onto their stars. We can reminisce in horror about the 2013 meltdown, but our lineup had no business being in the playoffs, no business taking the Bruins to game 7, and they still needed injuries and a miracle to beat us.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: crazyperfectdevil on April 10, 2018, 03:00:23 PM
Being so invested as a fan, it's hard for me to see things from a non-emotional perspective. What do fans of other teams think when they consider the Maple Leafs? I get nervous when strong teams like the Bruins or Lighting come to town. Is this what others are starting to feel when the Leafs come? I'm used to seeing our team play the back-up.

Boston fans on reddit are a bit afraid of our speed and Andersen getting hot at the right time.

One of the coaches we faced towards the end of the season remarked to reporters that he found it troubling to deal with our depth; I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like, 'They play Leo Komarov on the 4th line!'.

Cool thing is, I think the Leafs still have gains to be had on the wings (Johnsson over Komarov, Carrick over Polak if Zaitsev continues his stretch of surprisingly solid March play) and in loading minutes onto their stars. We can reminisce in horror about the 2013 meltdown, but our lineup had no business being in the playoffs, no business taking the Bruins to game 7, and they still needed injuries and a miracle to beat us.

Yeah everyone remembers the end of that series of course but nobody remembers that when the leafs came into that series nobody was picking them to win and definitely when the leafs went down 3-1 in the series no one was expecting a game 7 ..that loss has never really bothered me as much as it seems to most people.  leafs almost pulled off a bloody miracle that series.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 10, 2018, 03:01:44 PM
Yeah everyone remembers the end of that series of course but nobody remembers that when the leafs came into that series nobody was picking them to win and definitely when the leafs went down 3-1 in the series no one was expecting a game 7 ..that loss has never really bothered me as much as it seems to most people.  leafs almost pulled off a bloody miracle that series.

Management's response following that loss bothered me so much more, but seeing as how it brought us to this point, cool.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: jdh1 on April 10, 2018, 06:53:58 PM
  I'm feeling confident that the Leafs will take this series.  No more than 5 or 6 games. Better goal tending,better coach.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TimKerr on April 11, 2018, 09:44:01 AM
GO LEAFS GO!


There is way too much positivity surrounding this team.  We are setting ourselves up to fall from a very great height indeed.
We're in uncharted territory. My grumpy die hard self is very confused. It's not just "homer" talk anymore. We're actually a pretty good franchise?

May I? The Leafs are a team that is the forerunner of how the game is going to be played for the next 10-15 years. Quick and speedy forwards and fast puck moving defencemen is where they shine. A fourth line that is not just a checking unit or bruisers but can actually move the puck and attack the other team? How rare is that?
I don't know how well they are going to do in the playoffs this year, I think it all relies on Andersen, but if they continue this style of play they are going to be top 5 for a while.
Now excuse me while I go put on my Luke Schenn jersey.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 11, 2018, 12:13:10 PM
I'll be rooting for your Flyers in the first round.  A threepeat is good for nobody outside of Pittsburgh.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 11, 2018, 01:15:10 PM
I'll be rooting for your Flyers in the first round.  A threepeat is good for nobody outside of Pittsburgh.

Same... can't see Philly taking this one though.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 11, 2018, 01:48:43 PM
GO LEAFS GO!


There is way too much positivity surrounding this team.  We are setting ourselves up to fall from a very great height indeed.
We're in uncharted territory. My grumpy die hard self is very confused. It's not just "homer" talk anymore. We're actually a pretty good franchise?

May I? The Leafs are a team that is the forerunner of how the game is going to be played for the next 10-15 years. Quick and speedy forwards and fast puck moving defencemen is where they shine. A fourth line that is not just a checking unit or bruisers but can actually move the puck and attack the other team? How rare is that?
I don't know how well they are going to do in the playoffs this year, I think it all relies on Andersen, but if they continue this style of play they are going to be top 5 for a while.
Now excuse me while I go put on my Luke Schenn jersey.
I have some awful Leaf jerseys in my house: Kessel, Phaneuf and McCabe. The only one that I'm proud of is Clark. My next one will be a Matthews with the C on the front. We really have come along way.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: LuncheonMeat on April 11, 2018, 03:00:35 PM
I'll be rooting for your Flyers in the first round.  A threepeat is good for nobody outside of Pittsburgh.

Same... can't see Philly taking this one though.

Claude Giroux would like to speak with you (line 2).
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 11, 2018, 03:31:13 PM
I'll be rooting for your Flyers in the first round.  A threepeat is good for nobody outside of Pittsburgh.

Same... can't see Philly taking this one though.

Claude Giroux would like to speak with you (line 2).

It's not Giroux that I'm worried about... it's Nolan Patrick going up against Malkin every shift.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Stronger Than All on April 11, 2018, 04:33:01 PM
Got my son a Matthews Jersey the other day. He's 8.  Tomorrow is jersey day at his school for Humboldt.  He will have the jersey on all day until bed time.  :)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 11, 2018, 04:36:31 PM
Sportsnet Predictions:

Jeff Marek: Maple Leafs in 6
Eric Francis: Bruins in 7
Mark Spector: Maple Leafs in 7
Gord Stellick: Maple Leafs in 6
Colby Armstrong: Bruins in 7
Scott Morrison: Maple Leafs in 7
Kelly Hrudey: Maple Leafs in 7
John Shannon: Bruins in 7
Eric Engels: Bruins in 7
Sean McIndoe: Bruins in 6
Christine Simpson: Maple Leafs in 7
Iain MacIntyre: Bruins in 6
Luke Fox: Maple Leafs in 7
Nick Kypreos: Bruins in 7
David Amber: Maple Leafs in 6
Damien Cox: Maple Leafs in 6
Daren Millard: Maple Leafs in 7
Rory Boylen: Bruins in 6
Chris Johnston: Maple Leafs in 7
Kristina Rutherford: Maple Leafs in 7
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 11, 2018, 06:40:41 PM
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 11, 2018, 08:31:42 PM
Got my son a Matthews Jersey the other day. He's 8.  Tomorrow is jersey day at his school for Humboldt.  He will have the jersey on all day until bed time.  :)
You are an awesome dad.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Stronger Than All on April 12, 2018, 09:29:56 AM
Got my son a Matthews Jersey the other day. He's 8.  Tomorrow is jersey day at his school for Humboldt.  He will have the jersey on all day until bed time.  :)
You are an awesome dad.

Thanks, still haven't replaced my Sundin jersey yet.  :P
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: disco on April 12, 2018, 07:33:56 PM
First real chance to arguably go deep since 2004. I haven't felt this alive in years.
Cheers lads and gals
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 08:29:09 AM
Game was brutal, lots of doom and gloom today, but the playoffs can change on a dime.  I still remember way back in 1993 before internet to every home how the Leafs lost both games 1&2 in Detroit in really bad fashion, 6-3, 6-2.  I imagine if Twitter/forums were a thing back then everyone was saying "series over", but they managed to come back.  It can happen.   Leafs need to show up for game 2.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 09:19:11 AM
Assuming Kadri is out for a game, what's the plan for game 2?

Marleau-Matthews-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Komarov-Plekanec-Brown

Matthews will likely continue to see the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Put Marleau on his line to see if a veteran presence might help out a little. I've seen some suggest trying Marner with Matthews, but quite frankly the Bergeron unit is winning this match-up regardless. I'd keep the bigger offensive talents off the Matthews line and hope the other lines do the trick.

The next two lines have offence spread out evenly to take advantage of the fact that they won't be seeing the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Nylander's is speed-speed-speed while the 3rd line tries to re-discover the spark they had last season.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 09:27:37 AM
Assuming Kadri is out for a game, what's the plan for game 2?

Marleau-Matthews-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Marner
JVR-Bozak-Kapanen
Komarov-Plekanec-Brown

Matthews will likely continue to see the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Put Marleau on his line to see if a veteran presence might help out a little. I've seen some suggest trying Marner with Matthews, but quite frankly the Bergeron unit is winning this match-up regardless. I'd keep the bigger offensive talents off the Matthews line and hope the other lines do the trick.

The next two lines have offence spread out evenly to take advantage of the fact that they won't be seeing the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Nylander's is speed-speed-speed while the 3rd line tries to re-discover the spark they had last season.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Johnsson-Marleau-Marner
JVR-Bozak-Kapanen
Leivo-Moore-Brown

is what I'd like to see.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 13, 2018, 09:42:59 AM
Here's my original mod:

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Hyman
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Komarov - Plekanec - Kapanen

Notes:
- I think your point is a good one, Carlton, that Matthews is not likely to come out on top against Bergeron. I still think Marner needs a left centre to excel and Matthews is the only one left.
- Kapanen had a decent time gaining the zone when he had the chance, but he had no one to finish on his line. Bumping him higher makes sense.
- Strong-side Hyman is best Hyman, but he is not great in transition through the neutral zone. Pairing him at RW with a RH C is where I'd prefer him; Nylander is the best complement in my mind.

Newest Mods:
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Hyman
JvR - Bozak - Kapanen
Komarov - Plekanec - Brown

With more careful deployment of the 4th line, I think we can come out of game 2 looking better.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: L K on April 13, 2018, 10:11:12 AM
Assuming Kadri is out for a game, what's the plan for game 2?

Marleau-Matthews-Hyman
Johnsson-Nylander-Kapanen
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Komarov-Plekanec-Brown

Matthews will likely continue to see the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Put Marleau on his line to see if a veteran presence might help out a little. I've seen some suggest trying Marner with Matthews, but quite frankly the Bergeron unit is winning this match-up regardless. I'd keep the bigger offensive talents off the Matthews line and hope the other lines do the trick.

The next two lines have offence spread out evenly to take advantage of the fact that they won't be seeing the Bergeron/Chara match-up. Nylander's is speed-speed-speed while the 3rd line tries to re-discover the spark they had last season.

The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 10:14:17 AM
The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.

These are playoff games we're talking about. You have to basically murder someone on the ice to get 3 games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 13, 2018, 10:20:44 AM
The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.

These are playoff games we're talking about. You have to basically murder someone on the ice to get 3 games.

What if they stack Kadri's (incidental) kneeing of Nash on to the decision?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Boston Leaf on April 13, 2018, 10:23:50 AM
what time is hearing?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 10:28:10 AM
What if they stack Kadri's (incidental) kneeing of Nash on to the decision?

I haven't seen a replay of that so I can't say if it's suspension-worthy, but Player Safety announced that his hearing was specifically for the "boarding/charging" incident. If they were reviewing both plays they would have announced it.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.

These are playoff games we're talking about. You have to basically murder someone on the ice to get 3 games.

Given that it's Kadri I say he gets 2 games minimum.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: L K on April 13, 2018, 10:32:39 AM
The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.

These are playoff games we're talking about. You have to basically murder someone on the ice to get 3 games.

I'm not agreeing with 3 games, I just have this dark pit in my stomach about it.  I didn't think the Doughty hit was suspension worthy.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 10:34:20 AM
The scary thing will be if Kadri is given a multi-game suspension.  I have this uncomfortable feeling he's going to get 3 games.

These are playoff games we're talking about. You have to basically murder someone on the ice to get 3 games.

I'm not agreeing with 3 games, I just have this dark pit in my stomach about it.  I didn't think the Doughty hit was suspension worthy.

Agreed.  I didn't think Doughty should have been suspended at all.  If they said that was 1 game, I can't see how Kadri gets any less than 2.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 13, 2018, 10:44:29 AM
Game was brutal, lots of doom and gloom today, but the playoffs can change on a dime.  I still remember way back in 1993 before internet to every home how the Leafs lost both games 1&2 in Detroit in really bad fashion, 6-3, 6-2.  I imagine if Twitter/forums were a thing back then everyone was saying "series over", but they managed to come back.  It can happen.   Leafs need to show up for game 2.

For sure.  They let the game get away from them at the end of the 2nd.  That said, if they get blown out this series, it does beging to sew seeds of doubt whether guys like (say) Marner can be erased in playoff hockey (that sandwich right before Kadri's assbomb being the case in point).  And, indeed, whether Matthews and Nylander can step up when it counts.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 11:01:31 AM
Game was brutal, lots of doom and gloom today, but the playoffs can change on a dime.  I still remember way back in 1993 before internet to every home how the Leafs lost both games 1&2 in Detroit in really bad fashion, 6-3, 6-2.  I imagine if Twitter/forums were a thing back then everyone was saying "series over", but they managed to come back.  It can happen.   Leafs need to show up for game 2.

Totally posted my game day post before reading this.  I swear.  Great minds think alike, idiots rarely differ yadda yadda.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 11:06:19 AM
Game was brutal, lots of doom and gloom today, but the playoffs can change on a dime.  I still remember way back in 1993 before internet to every home how the Leafs lost both games 1&2 in Detroit in really bad fashion, 6-3, 6-2.  I imagine if Twitter/forums were a thing back then everyone was saying "series over", but they managed to come back.  It can happen.   Leafs need to show up for game 2.

Totally posted my game day post before reading this.  I swear.  Great minds think alike, idiots rarely differ yadda yadda.

Your post was way more enjoyable to read though.  You forgot to mention Dino Ciccarelli in that series in 1993.  Potvin snapped in game 2 and starting hitting him in the head with his blocker.  Then Burns said the strategy was to leave him alone in front of the net and not get off your game, and it worked.  I miss Pat Burns.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 11:11:13 AM
Game was brutal, lots of doom and gloom today, but the playoffs can change on a dime.  I still remember way back in 1993 before internet to every home how the Leafs lost both games 1&2 in Detroit in really bad fashion, 6-3, 6-2.  I imagine if Twitter/forums were a thing back then everyone was saying "series over", but they managed to come back.  It can happen.   Leafs need to show up for game 2.

Totally posted my game day post before reading this.  I swear.  Great minds think alike, idiots rarely differ yadda yadda.

Your post was way more enjoyable to read though.  You forgot to mention Dino Ciccarelli in that series in 1993.  Potvin snapped in game 2 and starting hitting him in the head with his blocker.  Then Burns said the strategy was to leave him alone in front of the net and not get off your game, and it worked.  I miss Pat Burns.

I did totally forget about that.  That was an enjoyable series.  I hope we all find this Boston-Toronto series as enjoyable.

It's funny, also from last nights game, when Gardiner rang one off the post in the first period with that extremely loud "PING", I was thinking "Hmmm, the last time we heard a loud ping in a game 1 involving the Leafs, the reaction was much different".
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 12:17:33 PM

Deep down, I think we all knew that this was happening.

Anyway, I wouldn't hate the move if Nylander and Hyman swapped spots too and they went Marleau-Nylander-Marner as line 2.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 12:19:27 PM
Also, I think it's pretty funny that for almost 2 years now we've been asking for Hyman to be taken off the Matthews line (less this year admittedly) and this is what we get when it finally happens.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 13, 2018, 12:25:45 PM
Babcock's solution to Matthews' possession woes is to promote one of the worst players in the league (with atrocious possession numbers) to the first line.

Completely indefensible.

Somehow Babcock manages to keep surprising me with his almost surrealist perspective on how the line-up should look.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 12:50:55 PM
Babcock's solution to Matthews' possession woes is to promote one of the worst players in the league (with atrocious possession numbers) to the first line.

Completely indefensible.

Somehow Babcock manages to keep surprising me with his almost surrealist perspective on how the line-up should look.

We probably don't have any combination of 3 players who could beat the Bergeron match-up. The goal is to get the Matthews line to be able to bend-but-not-break as much as possible while loading up the 3 other lines so we can win those match-ups. It's not exactly a strategy that we should be proud of, but it's probably the only one that'll work.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 12:52:32 PM
I'd also like to point out that we wouldn't have this problem if John Tavares was a Leaf.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 13, 2018, 01:04:06 PM
This will only result in Marchand outright frenching Komarov.

There are rules against biting and spitting, etc. but they forgot to account for kissing and licking. I'm not against Komarov lining his jersey collar (or coating his cheeks) with chloroform.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 01:08:44 PM
I know that there's been a lot of grumbling about Plekanec's play, and he's for sure been pretty disappointing as a Leaf, but I think we'd all agree that the best he's looked as a Leaf has been when he's been between Johnsson and Kapanen. Let's hope that continues because we're probably going to need a 4th line that dominates possession and maybe pots in a goal if we want to win the series and last night we got the exact opposite of that.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 01:11:04 PM
This will only result in Marchand outright frenching Komarov.

There are rules against biting and spitting, etc. but they forgot to account for kissing and licking. I'm not against Komarov lining his jersey collar (or coating his cheeks) with chloroform.

We need Qyburn to whip us up a vial of the Long Farewell.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 01:20:08 PM

Deep down, I think we all knew that this was happening.

Anyway, I wouldn't hate the move if Nylander and Hyman swapped spots too and they went Marleau-Nylander-Marner as line 2.

The Leafs are in deep trouble aren't they?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 01:22:22 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TimKerr on April 13, 2018, 01:25:25 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. But think back to two years ago, you'd never even imagine being here crying about the playoffs. There are worse fates. You could live in Ottawa or Buffalo.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 01:30:03 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.

The first step is admitting you have a problem. But think back to two years ago, you'd never even imagine being here crying about the playoffs. There are worse fates. You could live in Ottawa or Buffalo.

Oh I realize that.  But after last night's game, and Kadri's inevitable suspension, I could see this series going off the rails quickly and being over in 4 or 5.  Then I'll have to wait ANOTHER YEAR to see playoff hockey.  I ain't getting any younger and the Leafs still aren't any closer to a cup.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 01:32:53 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.

Yeah,  I used to go to there.  I started to realize it wasn't great for my health, and also, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, so why get worked up over it.  I wasn't on the ice, I didn't build the team, I'm not making any of the decisions, so I just watch the games and see what happens.  It's fun to see them win, less fun to see guys like Marchand win, but the sun came up today, and there isn't a nuclear war yet, so things are good.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 13, 2018, 01:34:59 PM
I know that there's been a lot of grumbling about Plekanec's play, and he's for sure been pretty disappointing as a Leaf, but I think we'd all agree that the best he's looked as a Leaf has been when he's been between Johnsson and Kapanen. Let's hope that continues because we're probably going to need a 4th line that dominates possession and maybe pots in a goal if we want to win the series and last night we got the exact opposite of that.
Totally agree. Having a good 4th line is critical to a team's success and the Leafs were very good when this line was together. As soon as Leo came back on that line, it was downhill. He simply doesn't have the speed and isn't a scoring threat. As for the new lines...I'd put Leivo or Johnsson with Matthews before Leo.
As for the game last night. That wasn't a 5-1 game. Leafs made bonehead mistakes. Boston didn't dominate us. My main concern is Hainsey. Absolutely brutal last night. I hope Babs uses Dermott more with Polak on the pk. They work well together. Dermott is all kinds of good.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 01:36:08 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.

Yeah,  I used to go to there.  I started to realize it wasn't great for my health, and also, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, so why get worked up over it.  I wasn't on the ice, I didn't build the team, I'm not making any of the decisions, so I just watch the games and see what happens.  It's fun to see them win, less fun to see guys like Marchand win, but the sun came up today, and there isn't a nuclear war yet, so things are good.

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Oh, ho, ho
Now, don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
The wind
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 01:38:33 PM
You would think after 40+ years of heartbreak, I'd be more even keeled when it comes to Leafs losses in the playoffs, but no, last night I was in a dark place.  Even though I knew it was only game 1, and there could be a long way to go, I lay in bed awake for over an hour still stewing about the game. I need help.

Yeah,  I used to go to there.  I started to realize it wasn't great for my health, and also, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it, so why get worked up over it.  I wasn't on the ice, I didn't build the team, I'm not making any of the decisions, so I just watch the games and see what happens.  It's fun to see them win, less fun to see guys like Marchand win, but the sun came up today, and there isn't a nuclear war yet, so things are good.

I close my eyes, only for a moment, and the moment's gone
All my dreams pass before my eyes, a curiosity
Dust in the wind
All they are is dust in the wind
Same old song, just a drop of water in an endless sea
All we do crumbles to the ground though we refuse to see
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Oh, ho, ho
Now, don't hang on, nothing lasts forever but the earth and sky
It slips away
And all your money won't another minute buy
Dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
All we are is dust in the wind
Dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
Everything is dust in the wind
The wind

I still prefer:

We're falling apart, still we hold together
We've passed the end, so we chase forever
'Cause this is all we know
This feeling's all we know

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Rob on April 13, 2018, 01:46:55 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 01:50:03 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 13, 2018, 01:53:38 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 01:57:41 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

Yep that's it.  It's a form of entertainment.  It'll make you feel emotions, but after it's over just flush it and move forward. 

Full disclosure, when Kadri hit Wingles last night after he elbowed Marner, my first reaction was "YEAH THAT'S IT".  Then I saw he could've killed Wingles, and I was like "Hunh, probably not a great reaction on my part".  Part of me wanted to watch that push back though.  That "we are not going to be intimidated" reaction.  Kadri took it to far, and I never really got that satisfaction.  Back in the Pat Quinn days, I remember watching games where the Leafs forecheck and cycle was relentless.  Roberts, Tucker, Corson, Green would just roll over guys.  The opposing defence couldn't get the puck out and I would sit back and just marvel at their ability to do that.  But there were also the games where the Devils would only allow them to take 13 shots in a game, and that would frustrate me to no end.  I'll watch the game on Saturday and there will be some emotion attached to it.  And the game after that, and so on. 

One point on the game last night.  Kadri was unhinged.  He didn't play his game.  He was too fired up, and I think that is a detriment to the team, because when he goes too far it hurts the team.  There have been games this year though, where things have gone off the rails, and Kadri will do something to reign the game back in, a hit, drawing a penalty, or scoring a goal.  He needs to be that player if the Leafs are going to do well.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 01:57:46 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.



No control? Speak for yourself I'm pretty sure it was my posts that got Matt Martin out of the lineup.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 02:01:21 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!

Buddy I might not stop crying for an entire day.  Just walk around wiping my eyes "I can't believe it" *sob* "they finally did it!" *sob* *randomly hugs strangers on street with tears rolling down eyes*
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 13, 2018, 02:02:58 PM
This will only result in Marchand outright frenching Komarov.

There are rules against biting and spitting, etc. but they forgot to account for kissing and licking. I'm not against Komarov lining his jersey collar (or coating his cheeks) with chloroform.

Post of the Century.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 13, 2018, 02:03:20 PM
Babcock's solution to Matthews' possession woes is to promote one of the worst players in the league (with atrocious possession numbers) to the first line.

Completely indefensible.

Somehow Babcock manages to keep surprising me with his almost surrealist perspective on how the line-up should look.

We probably don't have any combination of 3 players who could beat the Bergeron match-up. The goal is to get the Matthews line to be able to bend-but-not-break as much as possible while loading up the 3 other lines so we can win those match-ups. It's not exactly a strategy that we should be proud of, but it's probably the only one that'll work.

I don't think setting up to the Matthews line to get dominated in possession is a recipe for success. Matthews needs speed and skill on his wing to create space to make plays, not a giveaway machine like Komarov. He also needs to play better himself, but that's a separate issue.

The line is very likely to be hemmed in their own end every shift.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 02:03:43 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!

Buddy I might not stop crying for an entire day.  Just walk around wiping my eyes "I can't believe it" *sob* "they finally did it!" *sob* *randomly hugs strangers on street with tears rolling down eyes*

I'll be driving to Toronto with my family, getting a spot for the parade.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 13, 2018, 02:06:14 PM
As bad as that was to start the playoffs, this is the liveliest the board has been in years.  10000x better to get flushed in the first round than to be in the space we were under Carlyle.  Or Maurice.  etcetcetc
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 13, 2018, 02:08:19 PM
The line is very likely to be hemmed in their own end every shift.

Right, but my point was any trio going up against the Bergeron unit right now is likely to be hemmed in their own end every shift. This is a problem that we don't have a solution to right now. If we loaded up the top line with Johnsson/Marleau-Matthews-Nylander they'll still get dominated and there'll be one less offensive weapon on the other lines that actually have a chance to succeed.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoff Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 13, 2018, 02:11:40 PM
Boston it is.

Bring it.

Oh it has already been broughten!!!!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 13, 2018, 03:15:25 PM
Uhhhh, when's this Kadri suspension number coming?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Rob on April 13, 2018, 05:10:33 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!

Buddy I might not stop crying for an entire day.  Just walk around wiping my eyes "I can't believe it" *sob* "they finally did it!" *sob* *randomly hugs strangers on street with tears rolling down eyes*

Not saying I don't get emotional.  Sure I was briefly upset last night.  Yes I will cry like a baby when they win the cup.  Just saying to dwell on it for any length of time, is a total waste of time, energy and your own well being.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 14, 2018, 12:09:39 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!

Buddy I might not stop crying for an entire day.  Just walk around wiping my eyes "I can't believe it" *sob* "they finally did it!" *sob* *randomly hugs strangers on street with tears rolling down eyes*

Not saying I don't get emotional.  Sure I was briefly upset last night.  Yes I will cry like a baby when they win the cup.  Just saying to dwell on it for any length of time, is a total waste of time, energy and your own well being.
Agreed, if the Leafs ruin your well being this is not good.  I was there for the last 3 Cups and have wandered  the wasteland with them for 51 years.  If they lose to Boston in 4 I won't dance in the street, I like watching playoff hockey and rooting for my team, I will cry with you when we win the Cup (in the next 2 or 3 years). Sooner or later it will happen. So relax enjoy the ride, wherever it takes you and don't get upset.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TimKerr on April 14, 2018, 01:09:55 PM
Ultimately, who gives a shit.  I've been a Leafs fan for over 30 years, but to hitch up my mental/emotional happiness on the fortunes of a team I have absolutely no control over is not healthy.

BS, they ever win the Cup you'll be crying like a baby.
Hahaha...we'll all be in that boat!!!

Buddy I might not stop crying for an entire day.  Just walk around wiping my eyes "I can't believe it" *sob* "they finally did it!" *sob* *randomly hugs strangers on street with tears rolling down eyes*

Not saying I don't get emotional.  Sure I was briefly upset last night.  Yes I will cry like a baby when they win the cup.  Just saying to dwell on it for any length of time, is a total waste of time, energy and your own well being.
Agreed, if the Leafs ruin your well being this is not good.  I was there for the last 3 Cups and have wandered  the wasteland with them for 51 years.  If they lose to Boston in 4 I won't dance in the street, I like watching playoff hockey and rooting for my team, I will cry with you when we win the Cup (in the next 2 or 3 years). Sooner or later it will happen. So relax enjoy the ride, wherever it takes you and don't get upset.

Honestly, it is just sports. If the Leafs win or lose, or in my case the Flyers win or lose. I don't win or lose anything! My paycheque doesn't go up the next day, I don't get a ring, my name isn't engraved anywhere. But it is just a gam and so much fun to watch and enjoy and great as a distraction from real life. But it should never be actually impacting your real life. These are 23 strangers you have never met and never will meet and don't give a rat's ass about you.

When I was younger watching the Flyers in the playoffs in the 80's I would watch the game intently and get sick to my stomach with anticipation and nerves. Then my dad saw me watching and said "You think Rick Tocchet gives a rat's ass about you? Why are you wasting your precious energy stressing about this game? He doesn't care about you" A little harsh? Maybe. But definitely the right dose of perspective.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 14, 2018, 05:02:42 PM
Hockey is the passion that unites us here, and all in the LeafsNation.

Honestly, the day the Toronto Maple Leafs win Lord Stanley's coveted Cup, I will be crying tears of sheer joy.  Plus, I'd be planning my parade route.  :D

The city of Toronto won't be the same for a day.  In the words of Darcy Tucker who was asked what will it be like when the Leafs finally win the Cup -- his response?  "Mayhem!".
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 15, 2018, 02:41:04 AM
Babcock is getting out-coached, with boneheaded line-up decisions and bench minors caused by incessant (and completely ineffective) line matching.

On top of that, Anderson has continued his lengthy stretch of poor play and Matthews is not performing like a first overall pick. Rielly has fallen off the map for a few weeks as well.

The Leafs are in tough at the moment.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 15, 2018, 09:23:57 AM
Babcock is getting out-coached, with boneheaded line-up decisions and bench minors caused by incessant (and completely ineffective) line matching.

On top of that, Anderson has continued his lengthy stretch of poor play and Matthews is not performing like a first overall pick. Rielly has fallen off the map for a few weeks as well.

The Leafs are in tough at the moment.

I don't think this is a coaching issue at all.  Their best players are playing better than our best players.

Some were complaining about Matthews' ice time in game one since they were on the PK so often...he played 19 minutes last night, so did Nylander.

Here's the top lines' performance over the past 2 games:

Pastrnak -  9 pts.
Bergeron - 5 pts.
Marchand - 6 pts

Matthews - 0
Hyman - 1
Nylander - 0
Marleau - 0
Komarov - 0
(and whoever else they're trying on the wing)

Matthews and Nylander need to start putting some goals together, this is on these guys.  We can keep picking apart the 4th line winger and the bottom 3 defensemen, but until their top line, and the top 3 defensemen, start putting the puck in the net on the regular, they're going nowhere. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Mot the Barber on April 15, 2018, 10:24:19 AM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: RedLeaf on April 15, 2018, 10:38:29 AM
I guess this is what a slow and patient rebuild looks like. The Leafs did little to bolster their lineup in preparation for this years playoffs, like most teams at least tried to do. Instead they opted to keep the majority of their high draft picks and young prospects and go into this pretty much the same team that was dreadfully weak on defence the entire season. Playoff teams with defensive liabilities get exposed pretty damn quick when all the cards are on the table, and thats exactly what were seeing. Its not just the defence thats been lacking. The offence hasn't been nearly effective either because the Bruins DO have what it takes for playoff success on their blue line. The only salvation the Leafs have at this point is the fact that they are still a young and growing club with promise in years to come. The fact that they're seeing what it takes to play with the big boys is also something the whole organization can learn from, hopefully.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on April 15, 2018, 11:35:07 AM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: nutman on April 15, 2018, 11:39:42 AM
Don't count our boys out just yet, no team can keep that puck luck going. That was just crazy, the Leafs wern't that bad, and Boston was not as good as the score. Things will balance out back in Toronto.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 11:43:16 AM
Don't count our boys out just yet, no team can keep that puck luck going. That was just crazy, the Leafs wern't that bad, and Boston was not as good as the score. Things will balance out back in Toronto.
If Babcock keeps f-ing with the lines we are screwed.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 15, 2018, 11:52:49 AM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 11:54:49 AM
Don't count our boys out just yet, no team can keep that puck luck going. That was just crazy, the Leafs wern't that bad, and Boston was not as good as the score. Things will balance out back in Toronto.
Have you actually been watching the games?  The Leafs haven't been losing due to bad luck.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 15, 2018, 12:02:39 PM
Babcock is getting out-coached, with boneheaded line-up decisions and bench minors caused by incessant (and completely ineffective) line matching.

On top of that, Anderson has continued his lengthy stretch of poor play and Matthews is not performing like a first overall pick. Rielly has fallen off the map for a few weeks as well.

The Leafs are in tough at the moment.

I don't think this is a coaching issue at all.  Their best players are playing better than our best players.

Some were complaining about Matthews' ice time in game one since they were on the PK so often...he played 19 minutes last night, so did Nylander.

Here's the top lines' performance over the past 2 games:

Pastrnak -  9 pts.
Bergeron - 5 pts.
Marchand - 6 pts

Matthews - 0
Hyman - 1
Nylander - 0
Marleau - 0
Komarov - 0
(and whoever else they're trying on the wing)

Matthews and Nylander need to start putting some goals together, this is on these guys.  We can keep picking apart the 4th line winger and the bottom 3 defensemen, but until their top line, and the top 3 defensemen, start putting the puck in the net on the regular, they're going nowhere.

That's true, but I don't know that it means the coaching staff isn't to blame.

A lot of those points are from the Bruins PP clicking along at like 50% -- and I'd say we often see even strength scoring follow special teams success. The Bruins, it seems plain to me, scouted the Leafs PP and have largely succeeded in neutralizing it, and they've exposed the Leafs PK. That's down to their coaching staff outperforming ours, no?

As for the big lines, no arguing with those numbers. But it's not like the coaches couldn't've anticipated that the Bruins would match hard against Nylander and Matthews -- didn't they succeed in doing so back in February? -- and the adjustment Babcock et al made was... what?

Yes, one wants to see the team's top players put the team on their backs and take over a game. And that hasn't happened. But I find it hard look at the way the team's playing and see any way that the coaching staff has adapted the regular season game plan to match up against this opponent.

Also, the bottom three of your defense is... half your defense. No small thing!

Even without Kadri available, I suspect Babcock, with last change, will try to find combos to shadow and neutralize Bergeron et al. But I think it's time to toss out the set lines/pairs, balanced minutes, match-ups. Shorten the bench, roll the lines, and see if some guys can get their games going.

Marleau - Matthews - Kapanen
Hyman - Nylander - Marner
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Moore - Martin (at ~8m)

Gardiner - Rielly (at ~25m)
Dermott - Polak (at ~20m)
Hainsey - Zaitsev (under 15)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: nutman on April 15, 2018, 12:10:40 PM
Don't count our boys out just yet, no team can keep that puck luck going. That was just crazy, the Leafs wern't that bad, and Boston was not as good as the score. Things will balance out back in Toronto.
Have you actually been watching the games?  The Leafs haven't been losing due to bad luck.



I'll bite.. Yes the so called bounce was in Bostons corner big time, and there is nothing you or anyone else could say to change that opinion. yes Boston has one hell of a first line, but to out score one of the best lines in hockey 20-0 or whatever the number is, is some major puck luck. nuff said I will let the Hockey gods speak for me on Monday night, as I believe the bounce has to go our way sooner or later.

Boston may be a bit stronger then the Leafs, but no where near the way things have gone. Again lets see what Monday brings us.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 15, 2018, 12:11:24 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I rant and rave with the best of them, but I don't think it's possible for me to ever cheer for another team without hypnotism.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Mot the Barber on April 15, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 15, 2018, 12:47:30 PM
Outside of Anderson who has been a bust, Mirtle makes this comment; "1. The blueline must be better under pressure, with and without the puck. Hainsey, Nikita Zaitsev and Roman Polak are the obvious culprits given they're getting victimized shorthanded so often, but everyone can be better".

He goes on to point out that last year Leafs played 7 rookies and had nothing to lose.  He says time to play the kids more i.e.  Dermott, Johnsson, Kapi,  hell even give Carrick a go.  One thing that is obvious, we need to find a #1 D man somewhere and fast.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 12:53:48 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Dude you're trolling. And you need a haircut. This is a Maple Leafs fan board. I hope you get banned. Also, Auston Matthews is a better and more complete player than Laine. Have a nice day. :)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 15, 2018, 01:04:03 PM

That's true, but I don't know that it means the coaching staff isn't to blame.

A lot of those points are from the Bruins PP clicking along at like 50% -- and I'd say we often see even strength scoring follow special teams success. The Bruins, it seems plain to me, scouted the Leafs PP and have largely succeeded in neutralizing it, and they've exposed the Leafs PK. That's down to their coaching staff outperforming ours, no?

No. I think you're making all kinds of "scouting" assumptions with no supporting evidence, other than "Boston is playing better than Toronto".


As for the big lines, no arguing with those numbers. But it's not like the coaches couldn't've anticipated that the Bruins would match hard against Nylander and Matthews -- didn't they succeed in doing so back in February? -- and the adjustment Babcock et al made was... what?

Here's what I think about the Matthew line/Bergeron line matchup/avoid matchup...since none of the other lines seem to be able to stop them, you need to fight their offense with offense of your own, and hopefully win the zonetime war.  These past 2 games, Bergeron & co. have outplayed Matthews & co., but I think the only way the Leafs get back in this series is if the Matthews line can even up with the Bergeron line's production, then let the other 2-3 lines fight it out.

Yes, one wants to see the team's top players put the team on their backs and take over a game. And that hasn't happened. But I find it hard look at the way the team's playing and see any way that the coaching staff has adapted the regular season game plan to match up against this opponent.

I'm not sure there exists a game plan that allows you to beat one of the best teams in the league, night after night, while Matthews and Nylander are pointless during their 19 minutes of ice-time.

Also, the bottom three of your defense is... half your defense. No small thing!

You're right, but during the playoffs, your top 3 should represent 65-75% of the ice time...or at least, they should be:  ~25 mins for top 3-4, ~10-20 mins bottom 2-3.

Since none of them are really playing very well, their ice time last night was much more even.  Rielly was the leader at 20:58, low man was Zietsev at 17:35.

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 15, 2018, 01:49:17 PM

That's true, but I don't know that it means the coaching staff isn't to blame.

A lot of those points are from the Bruins PP clicking along at like 50% -- and I'd say we often see even strength scoring follow special teams success. The Bruins, it seems plain to me, scouted the Leafs PP and have largely succeeded in neutralizing it, and they've exposed the Leafs PK. That's down to their coaching staff outperforming ours, no?

No. I think you're making all kinds of "scouting" assumptions with no supporting evidence, other than "Boston is playing better than Toronto".

I would say the evidence is on the ice. We can see with our eyes -- and commentators have seen the same and said -- that Boston targeting the strengths of each unit. What "evidentiary standard do you suppose I need to meet here?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 15, 2018, 03:48:12 PM
Dubas stock rising in this series.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 15, 2018, 03:57:43 PM
This is the problem with message boards, the trolls that don't really care about anything other than schadenfreude. I mean I'll admit I enjoy seeing Habs or Sens lose, but I don't go and join one of their message boards to try and bait people, I actually have a life.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 04:42:12 PM
Some interesting thoughts here:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/babcocks-solution-to-stopping-bruins-top-line-is-right-in-front-of-him/ar-AAvU5gI?li=AAggNb9

I agree with it actually.  It's worth a shot.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 15, 2018, 04:44:39 PM

That's true, but I don't know that it means the coaching staff isn't to blame.

A lot of those points are from the Bruins PP clicking along at like 50% -- and I'd say we often see even strength scoring follow special teams success. The Bruins, it seems plain to me, scouted the Leafs PP and have largely succeeded in neutralizing it, and they've exposed the Leafs PK. That's down to their coaching staff outperforming ours, no?

No. I think you're making all kinds of "scouting" assumptions with no supporting evidence, other than "Boston is playing better than Toronto".

I would say the evidence is on the ice. We can see with our eyes -- and commentators have seen the same and said -- that Boston targeting the strengths of each unit. What "evidentiary standard do you suppose I need to meet here?

I guess what I see with my own eyes is just Boston players outplaying Toronto players.

I don't think that's a coaching thing.  I actually think Boston has more better players than Toronto does.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TheMightyOdin on April 15, 2018, 04:55:16 PM
Boston definitely playing better as a team.

I thought Matthews played good last night. He had a little anger and intensity in his play.

If we canít find a way to win both our home games and make this a best of 3 series it will be another 1st round exit for us.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 15, 2018, 05:29:03 PM
Some interesting thoughts here:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/babcocks-solution-to-stopping-bruins-top-line-is-right-in-front-of-him/ar-AAvU5gI?li=AAggNb9 (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/sports/nhl/babcocks-solution-to-stopping-bruins-top-line-is-right-in-front-of-him/ar-AAvU5gI?li=AAggNb9)

I agree with it actually.  It's worth a shot.


I agree with this.  As I stated in an earlier post somewhere here, Babcock needs to be more ecclectic and strategize both with the lines & the defence playing minutes/matchups.

It's time for a call to Mr. Martin, please.  The Leafs need a physical presence.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Mot the Barber on April 15, 2018, 05:31:53 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Dude you're trolling. And you need a haircut. This is a Maple Leafs fan board. I hope you get banned. Also, Auston Matthews is a better and more complete player than Laine. Have a nice day. :)

Nothing gets past you. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Mot the Barber on April 15, 2018, 05:34:52 PM
This is the problem with message boards, the trolls that don't really care about anything other than schadenfreude. I mean I'll admit I enjoy seeing Habs or Sens lose, but I don't go and join one of their message boards to try and bait people, I actually have a life.

Says the guy with 8000+ posts lol.  Anyway it's not schadenfreude, it's more pity.  Honestly I used to be a Leafs fan and I do want them to do well but it's just not going to happen.  I admit I fell for the Shanaplan but it's clearly just more of the same bs

Face it, the Leafs have already won the Stanley Cup...ripping their fans off and getting rich doing it is their Stanley Cup and they've won that Stanley Cup every year for several decades. 

They don't need to win the real Stanley Cup because what would be the point?  The carrot at the end of the stick is probably what enticing these fans to keep getting suckered along.

Well I gave my head a shake and snapped out of it.  I suggest you all do the same. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 05:47:28 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Dude you're trolling. And you need a haircut. This is a Maple Leafs fan board. I hope you get banned. Also, Auston Matthews is a better and more complete player than Laine. Have a nice day. :)

Nothing gets past you.
I think fair punishment for you would be for the mods to shave your head.  Then you could come back.  :o
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Mot the Barber on April 15, 2018, 06:02:24 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Dude you're trolling. And you need a haircut. This is a Maple Leafs fan board. I hope you get banned. Also, Auston Matthews is a better and more complete player than Laine. Have a nice day. :)

Nothing gets past you.
I think fair punishment for you would be for the mods to shave your head.  Then you could come back.  :o

Why because Bob Marley is black?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 07:36:41 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

  Good for you. See you later.
Yup see ya.

I'll send a post card from that mythical post-1st-round land  ;D
Dude you're trolling. And you need a haircut. This is a Maple Leafs fan board. I hope you get banned. Also, Auston Matthews is a better and more complete player than Laine. Have a nice day. :)

Nothing gets past you.
I think fair punishment for you would be for the mods to shave your head.  Then you could come back.  :o

Why because Bob Marley is black?
No.  Because you're the barber and you need a haircut.  Plus all you're doing on here is trolling.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on April 15, 2018, 08:16:17 PM
A sign of the Leafs being competitive again is the return of the trolls.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bender on April 15, 2018, 08:58:31 PM
This is the problem with message boards, the trolls that don't really care about anything other than schadenfreude. I mean I'll admit I enjoy seeing Habs or Sens lose, but I don't go and join one of their message boards to try and bait people, I actually have a life.

Says the guy with 8000+ posts lol.  Anyway it's not schadenfreude, it's more pity.  Honestly I used to be a Leafs fan and I do want them to do well but it's just not going to happen.  I admit I fell for the Shanaplan but it's clearly just more of the same bs

Face it, the Leafs have already won the Stanley Cup...ripping their fans off and getting rich doing it is their Stanley Cup and they've won that Stanley Cup every year for several decades. 

They don't need to win the real Stanley Cup because what would be the point?  The carrot at the end of the stick is probably what enticing these fans to keep getting suckered along.

Well I gave my head a shake and snapped out of it.  I suggest you all do the same.

This is a tight knit forum. I'd rather be a chump in your eyes surrounded by this group of people than spend any further time in discussion with a guy like you. Take it easy, bud.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 10:10:54 PM
Mods can we please give the barber a haircut?  :'(
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 15, 2018, 10:19:47 PM
A sign of the Leafs being competitive again is the return of the trolls.

This is also a good reminder that constantly responding to trolls is doing exactly what they want you to do.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 15, 2018, 10:23:56 PM
Also, it's playoffs. When a fan of another team chirps you you just wait to chirp them back.

Anyone else watch Winnipeg get their butts kicked tonight?

God, they got their butts kicked so good.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 15, 2018, 10:25:10 PM
Also, it's playoffs. When a fan of another team chirps you you just wait to chirp them back.

Anyone else watch Winnipeg get their butts kicked tonight?

God, they got their butts kicked so good.
Man if the Leafs can do that tomorrow night I will be super happy.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 15, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Also, it's playoffs. When a fan of another team chirps you you just wait to chirp them back.

Anyone else watch Winnipeg get their butts kicked tonight?

God, they got their butts kicked so good.
Man if the Leafs can do that tomorrow night I will be super happy.
They can do it. Wonder what the lines will be.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: wnc096 on April 15, 2018, 11:37:00 PM
You know what guys and gals, I think I'll go watch and support a real Canadian team lead by an elite talent with personality and playoffs intensity.  The Winnipeg Jets lead by Patrik Laine. 

We drafted wrong.   :(

nice game tonight btw
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 07:53:25 AM
A sign of the Leafs being competitive again is the return of the trolls.

This is also a good reminder that constantly responding to trolls is doing exactly what they want you to do.
I didn't actually respond to the troll, just made a general observation and got a soliloquy in response about why the Leafs will never win a Cup (only 2 years removed from 30th I guess the rebuild is deemed a failure lol)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 09:36:11 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.   
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 10:00:26 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:05:40 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?

The Jets are scary deep at forward and at the top of their defense. They lacked any goalstopping ability last year and for the season opener this year and we're well aware now how much your forward depth doesn't matter when the puck just keeps going into the net. I don't think they're championship caliber because of Laine alone, but they're a well built team for their style of play.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 10:06:31 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?

The Jets are scary deep at forward and at the top of their defense. They lacked any goalstopping ability last year and for the season opener this year and we're well aware now how much your forward depth doesn't matter when the puck just keeps going into the net. I don't think they're championship caliber because of Laine alone, but they're a well built team for their style of play.

Just sucks about the whole 'having to live in Winnipeg' thing.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:06:59 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?

The Jets are scary deep at forward and at the top of their defense. They lacked any goalstopping ability last year and for the season opener this year and we're well aware now how much your forward depth doesn't matter when the puck just keeps going into the net. I don't think they're championship caliber because of Laine alone, but they're a well built team for their style of play.

Just sucks about the whole 'having to live in Winnipeg' thing.

They don't have Doug Ford.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?

The Jets are scary deep at forward and at the top of their defense. They lacked any goalstopping ability last year and for the season opener this year and we're well aware now how much your forward depth doesn't matter when the puck just keeps going into the net. I don't think they're championship caliber because of Laine alone, but they're a well built team for their style of play.

Just sucks about the whole 'having to live in Winnipeg' thing.

They don't have Doug Ford.

Whose side are you on?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 10:08:23 AM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.

It's funny that he picks the Jets and Laine as the "true superstar" too.  Didn't they miss the playoffs last year with superstar Laine?  They make it once and suddenly they're a superior organization to the Leafs?

The Jets are scary deep at forward and at the top of their defense. They lacked any goalstopping ability last year and for the season opener this year and we're well aware now how much your forward depth doesn't matter when the puck just keeps going into the net. I don't think they're championship caliber because of Laine alone, but they're a well built team for their style of play.

They've also been building for a while.  Leafs were 30th two season ago, can't expect to go from 30th to Stanley Cup so quickly.  Leafs will get there in the next 2-3 seasons.

The Jets actually had 99 points the year the Leafs drafted Marner, so the Jets took a step back before they moved forward.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:11:11 AM
Whose side are you on?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriO0OEd9QIDdllqo/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 10:15:46 AM
Whose side are you on?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/3oriO0OEd9QIDdllqo/giphy.gif)

Get a haircut, Wilhem the troll.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TML fan on April 16, 2018, 10:16:19 AM
There's also the lack of credibility coming from a guy passionately cheering for a team that's only existed for 6 years, who probably wouldn't have the same affinity if they were still called the Thrashers.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:21:28 AM
They've also been building for a while.  Leafs were 30th two season ago, can't expect to go from 30th to Stanley Cup so quickly.  Leafs will get there in the next 2-3 seasons.

The Jets actually had 99 points the year the Leafs drafted Marner, so the Jets took a step back before they moved forward.

Counting progress by overall points in our 3-point system is a bit of a red herring, in my view. Once you get to OT, it's a coin flip.

Last year's Leafs were ass at shootouts. This year they're over 100 points because of the extra shootout wins. It's a bit artificial.

End of season 5v5 goal differential mixed with a PDO check is a clearer picture of team strength to me.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 10:24:15 AM
They've also been building for a while.  Leafs were 30th two season ago, can't expect to go from 30th to Stanley Cup so quickly.  Leafs will get there in the next 2-3 seasons.

The Jets actually had 99 points the year the Leafs drafted Marner, so the Jets took a step back before they moved forward.

Counting progress by overall points in our 3-point system is a bit of a red herring, in my view. Once you get to OT, it's a coin flip.

Last year's Leafs were ass at shootouts. This year they're over 100 points because of the extra shootout wins. It's a bit artificial.

End of season 5v5 goal differential mixed with a PDO check is a clearer picture of team strength to me.

OK forget points, the Jets made the playoffs that season, were bounced in round 1 and then missed the playoffs for 2 straight seasons.  So they took a step back before their great season this year.  Leafs so far have been a playoff team 2 straight seasons, this year's edition isn't yet done despite the bad start in the series.  So I see forward progress by the Leafs despite the last 2 games.  I think things are only going to get better despite what the trolls like to yap about.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 10:31:40 AM
So just to reign this back in to the Leafs for a second. 

I've seen a lot of consternation over their Coach and his choices.   Having watched the most that a person should have to watch of the first two games, here is where I have some questions.

1.  Does it seem to anyone else that the Leafs seem to be trying to play a more patient game now that they are in the playoffs?  They seem to be hanging back more rather than pushing the pedal to the metal and just skating all out.

2.  If the above is true, do you think that is a coaching decision, or do you think that Boston is applying the pressure that make it looks that way?

3.  Should the Leafs be trying to get the Bruins to play a more run and gun style in the hopes that the Leafs scoring depth out weighs the Bruins scoring depth?  Can the Leafs even do that?

Basically, does it look like the Leafs are trying to play more like Boston than they should, and rather than let Boston dictate how the Leafs are going to play, the Leafs should come out and play their style and see what Boston does with it?  Or is the way Boston is playing actually causing the Leafs to look slow and there isn't really anything they are going to be able to do about it?     
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 10:39:39 AM
So just to reign this back in to the Leafs for a second. 

I've seen a lot of consternation over their Coach and his choices.   Having watched the most that a person should have to watch of the first two games, here is where I have some questions.

1.  Does it seem to anyone else that the Leafs seem to be trying to play a more patient game now that they are in the playoffs?  They seem to be hanging back more rather than pushing the pedal to the metal and just skating all out.

2.  If the above is true, do you think that is a coaching decision, or do you think that Boston is applying the pressure that make it looks that way?

3.  Should the Leafs be trying to get the Bruins to play a more run and gun style in the hopes that the Leafs scoring depth out weighs the Bruins scoring depth?  Can the Leafs even do that?

Basically, does it look like the Leafs are trying to play more like Boston than they should, and rather than let Boston dictate how the Leafs are going to play, the Leafs should come out and play their style and see what Boston does with it?  Or is the way Boston is playing actually causing the Leafs to look slow and there isn't really anything they are going to be able to do about it?   

Random thoughts to follow:

It's probably a coaching decision because of the age old wisdom that you can't win playing run and gun hockey in the playoffs.   

Last game for example, when the Leafs finally seemed to open up and create chances (after it was 4-0), the Bruins get one chance and they bury it for a goal.   Part of it was bad luck, part is bad defensive coverage and not getting any type of timely save.

Leafs and Bruins played to a 3-3 scoreline after the initial 4 goal onslaught, and sure you can say the Bruins played differently due to the score, but the Leafs were actually trying to create more offense at that point, they finally realized they had to start skating and taking chances.

If they can fix the PK, I think the team should be able to match the Bruins fairly well 5 on 5.  We can't take a penalty and have it converted for a goal 50% of the time, you just can't win playing catch up hockey all night long.

I'll throw out a cliche for tonight's game -- FIRST GOAL IS IMPORTANT.  If Leafs can get the early lead, get the crowd into it, I think they'll be fine and carry a win tonight.  Need to be better in pretty much every area.  Andersen needs to have a game tonight.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:40:29 AM
OK forget points, the Jets made the playoffs that season, were bounced in round 1 and then missed the playoffs for 2 straight seasons.  So they took a step back before their great season this year.  Leafs so far have been a playoff team 2 straight seasons, this year's edition isn't yet done despite the bad start in the series.  So I see forward progress by the Leafs despite the last 2 games.  I think things are only going to get better despite what the trolls like to yap about.

You're letting troll talk creep into your head. They don't matter.

The Leafs are on a huge upswing and this is still very nearly the ground floor.

5v5 goal differential per season
2014-15: -35
2015-16: -40
2016-17: 6
2017-18: 28

It's a 60+ goal swing from the end of Carlyle to now, with an artificial dip a bit lower for Matthews/Laine.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
Hot take: it's possible both the Leafs and Jets have very good futures in the NHL.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 10:45:58 AM
OK forget points, the Jets made the playoffs that season, were bounced in round 1 and then missed the playoffs for 2 straight seasons.  So they took a step back before their great season this year.  Leafs so far have been a playoff team 2 straight seasons, this year's edition isn't yet done despite the bad start in the series.  So I see forward progress by the Leafs despite the last 2 games.  I think things are only going to get better despite what the trolls like to yap about.

You're letting troll talk creep into your head. They don't matter.

The Leafs are on a huge upswing and this is still very nearly the ground floor.

5v5 goal differential per season
2014-15: -35
2015-16: -40
2016-17: 6
2017-18: 28

It's a 60+ goal swing from the end of Carlyle to now, with an artificial dip a bit lower for Matthews/Laine.

Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 10:48:12 AM
Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.

My favourite aspect of this playoffs 'run' so far is how very clear it must now be to the front office that Dubas is the way to go moving forward.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 16, 2018, 11:06:11 AM
Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.

My favourite aspect of this playoffs 'run' so far is how very clear it must now be to the front office that Dubas is the way to go moving forward.

I did see Shanahan roll his eyes when they showed a reaction shot last game, and that screams Dubas.

BTW, for a camera operator how boring would it be to get assigned to shoot the GMs at a game?  "Just turn on the camera, Terry, and keep watching until Lamoriello rubs his forehead or something and then relay the clip to the truck.  Then do the same for Shanny."  Zzzzzzzz
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 11:08:33 AM
Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.

My favourite aspect of this playoffs 'run' so far is how very clear it must now be to the front office that Dubas is the way to go moving forward.

I did see Shanahan roll his eyes when they showed a reaction shot last game, and that screams Dubas.


C'mon man, that's a bit of a stretch seeing an eye-roll and assuming Shanahan is pining for Dubas to run the team  ;D

I would be more on board with this if after said eye-roll, Dubas is standing behind Shanahan and Shanny turns to him and points and we see Dubas nod his head.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 11:22:20 AM
Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.

My favourite aspect of this playoffs 'run' so far is how very clear it must now be to the front office that Dubas is the way to go moving forward.

I did see Shanahan roll his eyes when they showed a reaction shot last game, and that screams Dubas.


C'mon man, that's a bit of a stretch seeing an eye-roll and assuming Shanahan is pining for Dubas to run the team  ;D

I would be more on board with this if after said eye-roll, Dubas is standing behind Shanahan and Shanny turns to him and points and we see Dubas nod his head.  ;D ;D


Dubas:  Psst, Lou, pass this note to Shanny.
*Lou passes note to Shanny*
*Shanny unfolds note and reads it*
Note:  Am I the Leafs next GM, check yes or no. 
                yes                no

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 11:26:43 AM
Dubas:  Psst, Lou, pass this note to Shanny.
*Lou passes note to Shanny*
*Shanny unfolds note and reads it*
Note:  Am I the Leafs next GM, check yes or no. 
                yes                no

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1143416/guess-who-likes-you-o.gif)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
Dubas:  Psst, Lou, pass this note to Shanny.
*Lou passes note to Shanny*
*Shanny unfolds note and reads it*
Note:  Am I the Leafs next GM, check yes or no. 
                yes                no

(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view2/1143416/guess-who-likes-you-o.gif)

But I'm all Dubas. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 16, 2018, 12:09:20 PM
Oh I know, the Leafs are on the upswing and even the most pessimistic fan has to acknowledge that.  They're finally building a team with mostly home-grown talent.  We have more young guys coming (Johnsson and Kapanen weren't all season regulars yet), Grundstrom, Engvall, Aaltonen have all seemed to progress well and have a shot at making the Leafs next season.  The future is brighter than I've ever seen it in the last 40 years.

My favourite aspect of this playoffs 'run' so far is how very clear it must now be to the front office that Dubas is the way to go moving forward.

I did see Shanahan roll his eyes when they showed a reaction shot last game, and that screams Dubas.

BTW, for a camera operator how boring would it be to get assigned to shoot the GMs at a game?  "Just turn on the camera, Terry, and keep watching until Lamoriello rubs his forehead or something and then relay the clip to the truck.  Then do the same for Shanny."  Zzzzzzzz
The view on Lou was obstructed last game too and yet they kept going back to a shot of Lou behind a rafter.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 16, 2018, 12:12:38 PM
Did anyone else see the cringe worthy question asked to Matthews?

Could you imagine after 2 games your line would have zero versus the Bergeron line that has 20 points?

Straight to the bone, get angry Matthews, let's go.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 12:21:55 PM
Did anyone else see the cringe worthy question asked to Matthews?

Could you imagine after 2 games your line would have zero versus the Bergeron line that has 20 points?

Straight to the bone, get angry Matthews, let's go.

Yeah and Matthews said "shit happens" which caused a minor controversy on the interwebs.  People saying he's not captain-material worthy with that kind of response -- give me a break.  Hope he lights it up tonight cause he's annoyed by Simmons.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 12:26:02 PM
Did anyone else see the cringe worthy question asked to Matthews?

Could you imagine after 2 games your line would have zero versus the Bergeron line that has 20 points?

Straight to the bone, get angry Matthews, let's go.

Mat-Thews:  And the Members of the Maple Leafs

Auston:  I am Auston. Centre of the Leafs and defender of the secrets of Bauer Hockey. This is Nylander... my fearless winger. Fabulous secret powers were revealed to me the day I held aloft my Nexus N1 and said... By the power of Bauer!

Mat-Thews: I score the GOALS! Nylander became the Mighty Assist Master, and I became Mat-Thews the most powerful goal scorer in the NHL. Only a few others share this secret... Our friends: Mitch Marner, Marleau and Hyman. Together we defend the Neutral Zone from the evil forces of Boston.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 12:45:04 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 12:48:41 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 01:44:01 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 01:46:39 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TML fan on April 16, 2018, 01:49:23 PM
Ahh good ol' Toronto media looking for one guy to carry the team by himself.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 16, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons.
Is it a productive question? I don't think so. The question is impossible to answer. He's acknowledged he needs to better.

As a pro, you need to be able handle the heat but there's also a element of professionalism that should be met by the media.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 01:58:23 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons.
Is it a productive question? I don't think so. The question is impossible to answer. He's acknowledged he needs to better.

As a pro, you need to be able handle the heat but there's also a element of professionalism that should be met by the media.

The funny thing is, Simmons called him out after Matthews was one of the better Leafs in game 2 with 6 shots on net and creating opportunities.  I say Matthews gets on the board tonight, when you see a player generating a ton of chances it's only a matter of time before he breaks out.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2018, 02:01:16 PM
Ahh good ol' Toronto media looking for one guy to carry the team by himself.
Fans are like that to unfortunately. I liked Matthews response. "Shit happens, I guess."
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2018, 02:02:12 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons.
Is it a productive question? I don't think so. The question is impossible to answer. He's acknowledged he needs to better.

As a pro, you need to be able handle the heat but there's also a element of professionalism that should be met by the media.

The funny thing is, Simmons called him out after Matthews was one of the better Leafs in game 2 with 6 shots on net and creating opportunities.  I say Matthews gets on the board tonight, when you see a player generating a ton of chances it's only a matter of time before he breaks out.
Simmons is an idiot. Always was and will be.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 02:05:22 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons.
Is it a productive question? I don't think so. The question is impossible to answer. He's acknowledged he needs to better.

As a pro, you need to be able handle the heat but there's also a element of professionalism that should be met by the media.

No, but it's also not productive to say that a player is skating around with a piano on his back. 

I agree that Simmons shouldn't have asked a boneheaded question like that.  It's akin to someone asking someone from the losing team "Hey sport, your team just lost in overtime in game 7, how do you feel right now?"  Geez, I don't know random media person, how do you think he feels?

Same thing here.  "Could you have ever imagined....?"  Geez Steve, I didn't really go in to the series thinking to myself "Hey guys, what happens if Bergeron's line has 20 points before I get my first one?"

However, it's the effect after the fact that I am more interested in.  If this adds a little more fuel to the fire of Matthews, then great.  Although as you have stated, he already acknowledged that he needed to be better, so perhaps the furnace is fully stoked anyways.  And actually having typed that, maybe it just becomes another false narrative in sports that surrounds Matthews.  He comes out and has a great game, powers the Leafs to a win, and then it becomes about Steve Simmons firing him up, when really he was just plain embarrassed from the first two games and elevated based on that embarrassment.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 16, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
"Steve Simmons, in your wildest imagination, could you ever have predicted that after more than 25 years in the business you'd be considered one of the worst sports writers in all of North America?"

Hey I'm all for the "Gretzky looks like he is skating with a piano on his back" effect if it means that Matthews comes out with a virtuoso performance.  Thanks again Bob Mackenzie.

The big difference in your example is that Bob McKenzie was and is considered one of the premier hockey analysts around, Steve Simmons is viewed as a tabloid hack.  Being called out by one isn't the same as being called out by the other.

This is true.  But maybe the only person crazy enough to ask it was Simmons.
Is it a productive question? I don't think so. The question is impossible to answer. He's acknowledged he needs to better.

As a pro, you need to be able handle the heat but there's also a element of professionalism that should be met by the media.

No, but it's also not productive to say that a player is skating around with a piano on his back. 

It's a lot more articulate then Simmons' comment. It acknowledges the "weight" placed on him. Instead of "man you really suck, don't you?"
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 02:17:52 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 02:34:51 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.

Nice find.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2018, 02:41:08 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.
Strange or not he's looking at things logically and does make sense. You don't build a winner overnight. Now we have to build the backend up to match the forward core. I think we'll see it in the next couple of years, maybe even better next season.
I think people tend to forget how young we really are here. They said last game that Bergeron and Marchand have been playing together for 6 years. At the end of the day, it's all valued experience for the kids. Having said all that, we're not done yet.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 02:53:44 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.
Strange or not he's looking at things logically and does make sense. You don't build a winner overnight. Now we have to build the backend up to match the forward core. I think we'll see it in the next couple of years, maybe even better next season.
I think people tend to forget how young we really are here. They said last game that Bergeron and Marchand have been playing together for 6 years. At the end of the day, it's all valued experience for the kids. Having said all that, we're not done yet.

I just say he's strange because in another video he actually ranks all the NHL teams in his order of preference.  He has Canucks #1 (he's in Vancouver) and Boston #2.  For the record, he has the Leafs at #13 and said they would be in his top 5 if not for Kadri whom he despises cause of the greasy play.

Who the hell cheers for other teams?  I mean I have the Leafs, and then I don't care.  There are other teams that I enjoy when they lose, like Habs and Sens, but other than that I don't care outside of watching the Leafs win.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 16, 2018, 02:54:52 PM
Who the hell cheers for other teams?  I mean I have the Leafs, and then I don't care.  There are other teams that I enjoy when they lose, like Habs and Sens, but other than that I don't care outside of watching the Leafs win.

If your favourite team was Vancouver you'd want to cheer for other teams too.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 03:01:39 PM
If your favourite team was Vancouver you'd want to cheer for other teams too.

(https://media1.tenor.com/images/547931dce5ae02e83f58146f07509b0b/tenor.gif?itemid=4232665)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 03:06:07 PM
Our boy barney_rebel finished the Boston Marathon in 3:24:14...
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: LuncheonMeat on April 16, 2018, 03:14:21 PM
Our boy barney_rebel finished the Boston Marathon in 3:24:14...

He stinks, dude.  :-X
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 16, 2018, 03:17:08 PM
Who the hell cheers for other teams?  I mean I have the Leafs, and then I don't care.  There are other teams that I enjoy when they lose, like Habs and Sens, but other than that I don't care outside of watching the Leafs win.

If your favourite team was Vancouver you'd want to cheer for other teams too.
Haha..I used to work with a guy that is a Habs fan. His second fav team? The Leafs. Go figure.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 03:23:33 PM
Our boy barney_rebel finished the Boston Marathon in 3:24:14...

He stinks, dude.  :-X

Today he rules, I can't even imagine running a marathon.  I'm way too lazy for that  ;D
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 16, 2018, 03:37:49 PM
Our boy barney_rebel finished the Boston Marathon in 3:24:14...

He stinks, dude.  :-X

Today he rules, I can't even imagine running a marathon.  I'm way too lazy for that  ;D

I think LuncheonMeat was referring to how he might literally smell following the running of said marathon.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 03:38:45 PM
Our boy barney_rebel finished the Boston Marathon in 3:24:14...

He stinks, dude.  :-X

Today he rules, I can't even imagine running a marathon.  I'm way too lazy for that  ;D

I think LuncheonMeat was referring to how he might literally smell following the running of said marathon.

Never thought of that angle, good point.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TimKerr on April 16, 2018, 04:20:52 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.
Strange or not he's looking at things logically and does make sense. You don't build a winner overnight. Now we have to build the backend up to match the forward core. I think we'll see it in the next couple of years, maybe even better next season.
I think people tend to forget how young we really are here. They said last game that Bergeron and Marchand have been playing together for 6 years. At the end of the day, it's all valued experience for the kids. Having said all that, we're not done yet.

I just say he's strange because in another video he actually ranks all the NHL teams in his order of preference.  He has Canucks #1 (he's in Vancouver) and Boston #2.  For the record, he has the Leafs at #13 and said they would be in his top 5 if not for Kadri whom he despises cause of the greasy play.

Who the hell cheers for other teams?  I mean I have the Leafs, and then I don't care.  There are other teams that I enjoy when they lose, like Habs and Sens, but other than that I don't care outside of watching the Leafs win.

Lots of people cheer for other teams. There is more to hockey than just watching your favourite team. I think a lot of people are hockey fans first and team fans second. Maybe it is just this board but I find it is Leafs' fans first and hockey fans second.

But I am here to read because of all the good hockey insight from some very intelligent posters. Regardless of who they cheer for.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 16, 2018, 04:32:50 PM
This YouTube guy is a bit strange -- he has an NHL jersey of every single team, but he's a Vancouver and Boston fan.  He has praises for the Leafs and thinks we'll win the Cup in the next few seasons:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3KdH_dg8Ps

Interesting to see an outsider's perspective, I think he makes a few good points.  Expectations were raised because of last year's unexpected playoff team.  Matthews in only his 2nd season is comparable to other teams with young stars like the Pens and Hawks who didn't win until years 3 or 4 at the quickest.
Strange or not he's looking at things logically and does make sense. You don't build a winner overnight. Now we have to build the backend up to match the forward core. I think we'll see it in the next couple of years, maybe even better next season.
I think people tend to forget how young we really are here. They said last game that Bergeron and Marchand have been playing together for 6 years. At the end of the day, it's all valued experience for the kids. Having said all that, we're not done yet.

I just say he's strange because in another video he actually ranks all the NHL teams in his order of preference.  He has Canucks #1 (he's in Vancouver) and Boston #2.  For the record, he has the Leafs at #13 and said they would be in his top 5 if not for Kadri whom he despises cause of the greasy play.

Who the hell cheers for other teams?  I mean I have the Leafs, and then I don't care.  There are other teams that I enjoy when they lose, like Habs and Sens, but other than that I don't care outside of watching the Leafs win.

Lots of people cheer for other teams. There is more to hockey than just watching your favourite team. I think a lot of people are hockey fans first and team fans second. Maybe it is just this board but I find it is Leafs' fans first and hockey fans second.

But I am here to read because of all the good hockey insight from some very intelligent posters. Regardless of who they cheer for.
I get supporting a feel good story from time to time. When the Oilers made their Cinderella run in 06 with Dwayne Rolosson in net I actually wanted  to see them win. That being said I don't actively cheer for other teams during the season.  If I moved to another city like Seattle that suddenly gets a new team, I may cheer for them as the local team but I'd still be a Leafs fan first and foremost.  That's about the extent of me supporting other NHL teams
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: TheMightyOdin on April 16, 2018, 06:37:29 PM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.   

Iíve been a member since 1999 and have had this avatar for just about as long.  So I call dibs!😎
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 16, 2018, 06:51:35 PM
I don't like that the Might Odin and Mot The Barber have the same avatar.  Can we get some kind of ruling on that?

Also, just keep in mind that a person trolling another team says more about that individual as a person than it does about your team.   

Iíve been a member since 1999 and have had this avatar for just about as long.  So I call dibs!😎

Also, as you are the all father to the Norse gods, that should probably come with some perks.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 09:03:21 AM
So if Plekanec does a good job on the second line in the next game, does that mean we ice a lineup in game 5 that has Kadri between Johnsson and Kapanen?  Cuz knee jerk reaction me thinks that would be awesome.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 09:05:59 AM
So if Plekanec does a good job on the second line in the next game, does that mean we ice a lineup in game 5 that has Kadri between Johnsson and Kapanen?  Cuz knee jerk reaction me thinks that would be awesome.

Only Babcock knows.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2018, 09:06:27 AM
So if Plekanec does a good job on the second line in the next game, does that mean we ice a lineup in game 5 that has Kadri between Johnsson and Kapanen?  Cuz knee jerk reaction me thinks that would be awesome.

Problem is Babcock won't be controlling the match-ups in game 5, so he likely won't be able to get the Plekanec line up against Bergeron.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 09:25:50 AM
Likely he will have Kadri or Plekanec jump on when chasing the matchup rather than whole lines.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

But I wouldnít be surprised to see random situational mixes where Kadri/Plekanec jumps on with Bozak and Brown or with Matthews and Hyman, then you run Nylander up the middle with the follow up line after Bergeron sits.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 17, 2018, 09:37:14 AM
Likely he will have Kadri or Plekanec jump on when chasing the matchup rather than whole lines.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

But I wouldnít be surprised to see random situational mixes where Kadri/Plekanec jumps on with Bozak and Brown or with Matthews and Hyman, then you run Nylander up the middle with the follow up line after Bergeron sits.
I hate the Bozak line when were the away team. I would consider Moore for Bozak for away games, against Boston anyways.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 09:49:27 AM
Likely he will have Kadri or Plekanec jump on when chasing the matchup rather than whole lines.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

But I wouldnít be surprised to see random situational mixes where Kadri/Plekanec jumps on with Bozak and Brown or with Matthews and Hyman, then you run Nylander up the middle with the follow up line after Bergeron sits.
I hate the Bozak line when were the away team. I would consider Moore for Bozak for away games, against Boston anyways.

You lose out on that surprisingly important powerplay faceoff specialist. Bozak is fine when he plays like he cares.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2018, 09:51:34 AM
You lose out on that surprisingly important powerplay faceoff specialist. Bozak is fine when he plays like he cares.

Bozak was fantastic last night. I thought he was pretty good in game 2 as well.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 10:15:28 AM
You lose out on that surprisingly important powerplay faceoff specialist. Bozak is fine when he plays like he cares.

Bozak was fantastic last night. I thought he was pretty good in game 2 as well.

Heís critical to our playoff drive because heís that next tier of depth after Matthews/Kadri. Heís a former 1C, as laughable as that is, and can be a huge overmatch against other teamsí 3/4 lines when heís engaged.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 10:24:54 AM
So if Plekanec does a good job on the second line in the next game, does that mean we ice a lineup in game 5 that has Kadri between Johnsson and Kapanen?  Cuz knee jerk reaction me thinks that would be awesome.

Problem is Babcock won't be controlling the match-ups in game 5, so he likely won't be able to get the Plekanec line up against Bergeron.

Right, but in that case, he has three lines that we would feel comfortable with on the ice against the Bergeron line.  I think that Kadri on a defacto 4th line with Kapanen and Johnsson, along with a rejuvenated Plekanac with Marner and Marleu, and then the first line with Matthews, Hyman and Nylander would all be able to hold their own for the most part against that line.  That really only leaves the Bozak, JVR, Brown line as the line you really don't want to have out there against them.  And even then, you just hope that Bozak can win the faceoff and they can get the puck out for a change in that case, because the only case where I see that happening is on an icing.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 10:31:33 AM
Likely he will have Kadri or Plekanec jump on when chasing the matchup rather than whole lines.

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

But I wouldnít be surprised to see random situational mixes where Kadri/Plekanec jumps on with Bozak and Brown or with Matthews and Hyman, then you run Nylander up the middle with the follow up line after Bergeron sits.

I'm beginning to wonder if Marleau and Marner are better defensively than Hyman and Nylander.  As much as Kadri and Plekanec are quite good defensively, Matthews isn't that bad to be getting run over by Bergergon's line.  If anything, I noticed last night that Marleau and Marner kept the Bergeron line in their own end much more than the regular Matthews line does.    If Cassidy wants to put Bergeron line out against Matthews, maybe run:

Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: bustaheims on April 17, 2018, 10:43:35 AM
Heís critical to our playoff drive because heís that next tier of depth after Matthews/Kadri. Heís a former 1C, as laughable as that is, and can be a huge overmatch against other teamsí 3/4 lines when heís engaged.

Yeah. I don't think the solution is to sit him, but, his even strength minutes may need to be limited, and never have him out against the Bergeron line, if possible.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2018, 10:44:55 AM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: L K on April 17, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
Marner to me is the deceptive kind of defensive player.  He's so small that I think he just default gets a reputation of being bad defensively but his stick is active and he's good at getting it in shooting lanes and stripping pucks.  I think that's pretty crucial when going up against guys like Pastrnak who can get shots off quickly.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 17, 2018, 11:05:55 AM
You lose out on that surprisingly important powerplay faceoff specialist. Bozak is fine when he plays like he cares.

Bozak was fantastic last night. I thought he was pretty good in game 2 as well.

Heís critical to our playoff drive because heís that next tier of depth after Matthews/Kadri. Heís a former 1C, as laughable as that is, and can be a huge overmatch against other teamsí 3/4 lines when heís engaged.
I am not with you on this one. His defensive deficiencies versus offensive contributions are way out of balance.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 11:06:13 AM
I think the most deceptive thing about Marleau/Marner vs Hyman/Nylander is the former seem to be better at getting the puck out of the zone than the latter, especially when the d-man pinches down the boards.  As small as Marner is, he seems to anticipate and position his body in a way to make sure the puck gets by.
Those turnovers up high seem to cause us the most trouble.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 17, 2018, 11:08:06 AM
Heís critical to our playoff drive because heís that next tier of depth after Matthews/Kadri. Heís a former 1C, as laughable as that is, and can be a huge overmatch against other teamsí 3/4 lines when heís engaged.

Yeah. I don't think the solution is to sit him, but, his even strength minutes may need to be limited, and never have him out against the Bergeron line, if possible.
That match up is what I'm terrified of.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2018, 11:11:12 AM
That match up is what I'm terrified of.

In games 1 and 2 Bozak played a combined 2:32 against Bergeron. Boston isn't chasing that match-up on the road because they want Bergeron going head to head against Matthews. So it's not really something to be that worried about.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 11:13:45 AM
That match up is what I'm terrified of.

In games 1 and 2 Bozak played a combined 2:32 against Bergeron. Boston isn't chasing that match-up on the road because they want Bergeron going head to head against Matthews. So it's not really something to be that worried about.

And I bet those minutes came after the Bozak line iced the puck.  Seems to be the only time Cassidy targets the Bozak line with the Bergeron one.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 11:18:48 AM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 11:22:04 AM
I think the most deceptive thing about Marleau/Marner vs Hyman/Nylander is the former seem to be better at getting the puck out of the zone than the latter, especially when the d-man pinches down the boards.  As small as Marner is, he seems to anticipate and position his body in a way to make sure the puck gets by.
Those turnovers up high seem to cause us the most trouble.

Hyman playing the off-wing is harder defensively. He canít seal the boards and make an optimal play.

Marleauís positioning is one of Babcockís favourite things for a reason. Marner noted Plekanecís ability to also be routinely on top of his check after the game as well.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 11:25:30 AM
I think the most deceptive thing about Marleau/Marner vs Hyman/Nylander is the former seem to be better at getting the puck out of the zone than the latter, especially when the d-man pinches down the boards.  As small as Marner is, he seems to anticipate and position his body in a way to make sure the puck gets by.
Those turnovers up high seem to cause us the most trouble.

Hyman playing the off-wing is harder defensively. He canít seal the boards and make an optimal play.

Marleauís positioning is one of Babcockís favourite things for a reason. Marner noted Plekanecís ability to also be routinely on top of his check after the game as well.

Absolutely.  I've lobbied for Hyman to play RW mostly from the offensive side of his game, where he's very limited with the puck on his stick playing on his off wing.  But defensively this would help too. 

Unfortunately, we have 5 RW's and 4 spots.  Unless Nylander moves to the middle next year, that isn't changing either.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 11:59:28 AM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 17, 2018, 12:15:43 PM
So if Plekanec does a good job on the second line in the next game, does that mean we ice a lineup in game 5 that has Kadri between Johnsson and Kapanen?  Cuz knee jerk reaction me thinks that would be awesome.

I was wondering about this. Since there's no match up game to play on the road, maybe it's best to have no line that can get really taken advantage of and just roll em. Also lets you signal to Kadri that he's been bad.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 12:16:03 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.

1.  I'm sure being moved up in the lineup made him more engaged, for sure
2.  I hate Marchand too, and would love to be on the ice pestering him if I was Plekanec.
3.  Plekanec with Kapanen and Johnsson has actually been decent, regular season and in game 2.  Game 1 he had Komarov on his left wing, and they got buried.  Plekanec also got buried when playing with Komarov in the regular season.  I see a familiar pattern here.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 12:25:16 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.

1.  I'm sure being moved up in the lineup made him more engaged, for sure
2.  I hate Marchand too, and would love to be on the ice pestering him if I was Plekanec.
3.  Plekanec with Kapanen and Johnsson has actually been decent, regular season and in game 2.  Game 1 he had Komarov on his left wing, and they got buried.  Plekanec also got buried when playing with Komarov in the regular season.  I see a familiar pattern here.

And maybe that's it.  Maybe it's just he and Komarov don't play well together.  They'll have one more game to evaluate the situation.  If Plekanec has a solid game in game 4, then I think they'll have some decision making to do.  I guess there is nothing stopping them from going back to the original line up, and if stuff isn't working well, try something different mid game in game 5.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 12:26:12 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.

I think Marner changes the dynamic of that line.  The opposition has to respect Marner so much because he can create plays and it gives Plekanec a bit more leeway out there.  If Plekanec is playing with Kapanen and Johnsson they're not as concerned about the wingers as much as when it's Marner.  Marleau also had a strong game which just propped up the entire line. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2018, 12:26:25 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 12:31:24 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 17, 2018, 12:35:29 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

All of that is inconsequential.  In Game 5, Cassidy will control the matchups for the most part and always puts Bergeron out against the Matthews unit.  Its why I suggested switching up Matthews wingers on the road to Marleau/Marner.

Now, for game 6... then it does present the option of keeping Plekanec between Marleau-Marner against the Bergeron line and seeing if Johnsson-Kadri-Kapanen can get something going together.  This gives you the option to also drop Bozak's line's minutes at 5v5.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2018, 12:36:17 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
That's very true. Problem is what we think and what Babs thinks are probably complete opposite, unfortunately. Let's see what game 4 brings and hopefully Leo is out so there's no decision to be made.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 12:38:27 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
That's very true. Problem is what we think and what Babs thinks are probably complete opposite, unfortunately. Let's see what game 4 brings and hopefully Leo is out so there's no decision to be made.

Since Leo has had recent injury problem, I'm hopeful that this latest setback is too much for him to come back from.  It's fairly sad that i'm wishing for a player to not be fit to play, but here we are.  In any event, I don't think Babcock switches the lineup for the next game since it was a winning combo.  Coaches usually stick with what worked.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2018, 12:50:28 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
That's very true. Problem is what we think and what Babs thinks are probably complete opposite, unfortunately. Let's see what game 4 brings and hopefully Leo is out so there's no decision to be made.

Since Leo has had recent injury problem, I'm hopeful that this latest setback is too much for him to come back from.  It's fairly sad that i'm wishing for a player to not be fit to play, but here we are.  In any event, I don't think Babcock switches the lineup for the next game since it was a winning combo.  Coaches usually stick with what worked.
What's the over/under on this? I have a bad feeling he's in if he can go and I think that's a huge mistake. As sad as it is, I hope he can't go so it takes the decision out of his hands.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 12:53:46 PM
Marleau - Matthews - Marner
Hyman - Kadri - Nylander
Jvr- Bozak - Brown
Johnsson - Plekanec - Kapanen

I think that's definitely worth a shot on the road.

Those top two lines happened at times during the season when they were doing road matches with just the centres. Itíll come up again in game 5. Now we have the added benefit of rolling out Plekanec as an option with Kadriís line if there is a shuffle for whatever reason.

The thing is, what made Plekanec effective?  Was it his linemates, his renewed enthusiasm because he felt useful, the fact that he hates Marchand?  I think that is the question that needs to be answered, because if he isn't as effective if he is centering Johnsson and Kapanen, then he shouldn't be put back there.  The Leafs need him to be more effective than he was in games 1 and 2.  They need him to be as effective as he was in game 3, and hope that it wasn't just a one time thing.
Pleks played almost 18 minutes last night. Most games with the Leafs he's played 10. That's a huge difference. Maybe it is as simple as feeling needed but he was a pain in their ass last night. Marchand absolutely hates him and that's a good thing. If, and I say if, it goes the same next game I'd be tempted to leave him with the Mars bars and put Kadri with the 4th line guys. It might actually be a very good fit as Kadri has a little more finish then Moore. We'll have to see what happens Thursday tho. One thing very clear is Leo has no place in this line up unless someone is hurt. Unfortunately we all know, Leo will be back in if he's healthy and the 4th line will be less effective again.

You don't even have to treat it as a "4th line" in terms of minutes either.  They can increase the minutes played if they have Kadri with Kapanen and Johnsson.  All 3 guys can score and are fast, that could be an explosive offensive line, I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.
That's very true. Problem is what we think and what Babs thinks are probably complete opposite, unfortunately. Let's see what game 4 brings and hopefully Leo is out so there's no decision to be made.

Since Leo has had recent injury problem, I'm hopeful that this latest setback is too much for him to come back from.  It's fairly sad that i'm wishing for a player to not be fit to play, but here we are.  In any event, I don't think Babcock switches the lineup for the next game since it was a winning combo.  Coaches usually stick with what worked.
What's the over/under on this? I have a bad feeling he's in if he can go and I think that's a huge mistake. As sad as it is, I hope he can't go so it takes the decision out of his hands.

If he does insert Leo and they lose game 4, they'll be some hard questions to answer.  "Why did you change the lineup from the winning game 3 version?"
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 12:56:37 PM
I don't think Leo is coming back into the lineup even when healthy. I know this sounds counter to what I argued a few weeks ago. I wasn't saying Komarov should be in the lineup, but rather Babcock wouldn't kick him out just because Johnsson was the new hotness. I also did say that Komarov would get two games and if we got blown up, he'd throw Johnsson in there.

It's one thing when it's towards the end of the season and he was slated for the playoff lineup; but now we're in the playoffs and there is no more room for patience. Komarov was bumped off Kadri's line, and is for all intents and purposes bumped from the 4th, barring injury to someone else. Babcock will just say he doesn't want to mess with a winning lineup.

Justin Bourne was on the Hockey PDOcast (https://hockeypdocast.com/2018/04/05/ep-230-sent-into-exile/) with Dim Filopovic a couple of weeks ago and talked about how Babcock kind of needs to see his 'mistakes' on his own before he makes adjustments (i.e. they've been telling him about Dermott and Johnsson since last year), which is why it takes some time.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 17, 2018, 01:00:47 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 17, 2018, 01:09:10 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.

What does he know without Nonis on staff though?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2018, 01:10:00 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.
From past practice what else would we think.
Herman, I hope you're right though. Babs has to see it. He's stubborn, not stupid.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 17, 2018, 01:10:56 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.

What does he know without Nonis on staff though?
Hahaha...
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 02:16:52 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.

What does he know without Nonis on staff though?

Maybe he has an Athletic subscription?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 17, 2018, 02:22:13 PM
All of that is inconsequential.  In Game 5, Cassidy will control the matchups for the most part and always puts Bergeron out against the Matthews unit.  Its why I suggested switching up Matthews wingers on the road to Marleau/Marner.

Now, for game 6... then it does present the option of keeping Plekanec between Marleau-Marner against the Bergeron line and seeing if Johnsson-Kadri-Kapanen can get something going together.  This gives you the option to also drop Bozak's line's minutes at 5v5.

Yeah, I guess I was thinking specifically of that one goal where Plekanec got trapped on the ice after an icing and the Marchand line came out and the scored a goal.  Although it was only one of the 5 (for the forwards) that line has put up so far in this series.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 17, 2018, 02:25:04 PM
Dreger said on the radio today that his educated guess is that Komarov goes right back in when he's healthy. I, reluctantly of course, agree with that assessment.

Screw Dreger.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 17, 2018, 02:37:44 PM
All of that is inconsequential.  In Game 5, Cassidy will control the matchups for the most part and always puts Bergeron out against the Matthews unit.  Its why I suggested switching up Matthews wingers on the road to Marleau/Marner.

Now, for game 6... then it does present the option of keeping Plekanec between Marleau-Marner against the Bergeron line and seeing if Johnsson-Kadri-Kapanen can get something going together.  This gives you the option to also drop Bozak's line's minutes at 5v5.

Yeah, I guess I was thinking specifically of that one goal where Plekanec got trapped on the ice after an icing and the Marchand line came out and the scored a goal.  Although it was only one of the 5 (for the forwards) that line has put up so far in this series.

That's why, if game 4 shows Plekanec has more than 1 game in him, I'd sort of like to see Kadri on the 4th line in Boston.

If Plekanec gets stuck out there with Marner and Marleu, do we care? If the fourth line gets stuck out there, Kadri centering that makes that a less frightening proposition.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 17, 2018, 07:17:01 PM
Ya Kadri between Johnsson and Kapi sounds like Kentucky chicken
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 18, 2018, 09:06:48 AM
This series so far not only shows how getting some less-panicky defenders is mandatory, but also how much of a handful the Leafs will be with another matchup centre down the middle, either behind or in front of Kadri.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 18, 2018, 09:55:11 AM

Does Lou have Twitter?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 18, 2018, 10:13:04 AM
This series so far not only shows how getting some less-panicky defenders is mandatory, but also how much of a handful the Leafs will be with another matchup centre down the middle, either behind or in front of Kadri.

I'd be pretty surprised if they don't go hard after Thornton or Tavares this summer if they're available.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 18, 2018, 10:17:39 AM

Does Lou have Twitter?

Maybe he's like Samson?  He needs that hair for his power.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 18, 2018, 10:35:44 AM
This series so far not only shows how getting some less-panicky defenders is mandatory, but also how much of a handful the Leafs will be with another matchup centre down the middle, either behind or in front of Kadri.

I'd be pretty surprised if they don't go hard after Thornton or Tavares this summer if they're available.

I think they should go after Tavares hard on a one-year contract. It'd have to be huge for him to consider.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 18, 2018, 10:40:59 AM
I think they should go after Tavares hard on a one-year contract. It'd have to be huge for him to consider.

I still think it'd make sense to explore a contract on a long-term deal, but if they want to try the 1-year route it would have to be at whatever the maximum salary would be (probably about $16mil depending on where the cap falls).
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: cabber24 on April 18, 2018, 10:41:38 AM
This series so far not only shows how getting some less-panicky defenders is mandatory, but also how much of a handful the Leafs will be with another matchup centre down the middle, either behind or in front of Kadri.

I'd be pretty surprised if they don't go hard after Thornton or Tavares this summer if they're available.

I think they should go after Tavares hard on a one-year contract. It'd have to be huge for him to consider.
Who can afford to gamble a 100M? No one, won't happen unless it's a long term contract. I guess he just did gamble without a contract at seasons end. He could of broke his neck game 82.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 18, 2018, 10:57:50 AM
I agree with all of you, but it's a fun idea to consider. If he looks at it as a potential 9-year contract, then it's a risk in the first year, but then he can get his term in the following years.

e.g.:
1-year contract: $15M, followed by
8-year contract: $12M/year
= $111M

Otherwise, he's restricted to a seven-year contract or re-signing with the Islanders (prior to July 1st I believe) if he wants eight years.

No idea if the Leafs could afford Tavares, Matthews, Nylander, and Marner though.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 18, 2018, 10:58:50 AM
how can there not be a game today???
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 18, 2018, 11:03:17 AM
I agree with all of you, but it's a fun idea to consider. If he looks at it as a potential 9-year contract, then it's a risk in the first year, but then he can get his term in the following years.

e.g.:
1-year contract: $15M, followed by
8-year contract: $12M/year
= $111M

Otherwise, he's restricted to a seven-year contract or re-signing with the Islanders (prior to July 1st I believe) if he wants eight years.

I've wondered if he'd sign a 1-year deal here (or somewhere) and then go back to the Islanders once they have their arena built.

Highly, highly, highly unlikely though.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 18, 2018, 12:08:50 PM
I've wondered if he'd sign a 1-year deal here (or somewhere) and then go back to the Islanders once they have their arena built.

Highly, highly, highly unlikely though.

This is probably more for the Tavares thread than here, but he just got engaged this past offseason (his fiancee is also Canadian). I've mulled it as well, but I can't see him hotelling somewhere else temporarily just to see how the arena build goes is in the cards. Toronto makes a lot of sense.

He knows full well how much help he would need to make a really good go of a Cup run. Kadri's a good buddy. He knows Babcock and Hunter pretty well. I think he takes a good look at what the market (i.e. Toronto) has to offer and go from there.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 18, 2018, 12:33:11 PM

Heís healthy from what I can read into the tweets.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 18, 2018, 12:38:36 PM

Heís healthy from what I can read into the tweets.
Woop woop!!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2018, 12:41:30 PM

Heís healthy from what I can read into the tweets.
And the fans cheer!!!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 18, 2018, 01:31:42 PM
I've wondered if he'd sign a 1-year deal here (or somewhere) and then go back to the Islanders once they have their arena built.

Highly, highly, highly unlikely though.

This is probably more for the Tavares thread than here, but he just got engaged this past offseason (his fiancee is also Canadian). I've mulled it as well, but I can't see him hotelling somewhere else temporarily just to see how the arena build goes is in the cards. Toronto makes a lot of sense.

He knows full well how much help he would need to make a really good go of a Cup run. Kadri's a good buddy. He knows Babcock and Hunter pretty well. I think he takes a good look at what the market (i.e. Toronto) has to offer and go from there.

That sounds about right.  Although throwing a mega-one-year at him is intriguing, I can't imagine he'd consider it.  This almost surely his "career" contract.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 18, 2018, 01:33:03 PM

Heís healthy from what I can read into the tweets.

GRAMMAR POLICE ALERT: He can't play again in Game 4 since he hasn't already not played in a game that hasn't happened yet.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Strangelove on April 18, 2018, 02:21:55 PM

Heís healthy from what I can read into the tweets.

The day I have been dreaming about.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 18, 2018, 02:37:06 PM
*whispers* nobody has called Komarov healthy *whispers*
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 18, 2018, 02:41:49 PM
I chose to read the tweet as:

"Mike Babcock says Leo Komarov will not play again"
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 18, 2018, 02:58:48 PM
*whispers* nobody has called Komarov healthy *whispers*

Yesterday:

Today:

This is me reading too much into it :)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 18, 2018, 03:08:00 PM
I chose to read the tweet as:

"Mike Babcock says Leo Komarov will not play again"
I'll take that!!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 18, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
*whispers* nobody has called Komarov healthy *whispers*

Yesterday:

Today:

This is me reading too much into it :)

Komarov is the new tour director on Playoffs Robidas Island.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 18, 2018, 04:58:02 PM
By the numbers:  showcasing how Bergeron (& subsequently his line) plus others were key in games 1 to 2 for Boston, and how the Leafs turned the tide in Game 3:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/bvBm4v.png)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 19, 2018, 06:47:50 PM
http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/the-15-nhl-teams-that-won-t-make-the-playoffs-in-2017-18

Nice! 33.33% correct!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 20, 2018, 01:27:06 AM
Some pointers:

- Rask outplaying Andersen
- lack of Kadri still hurting Leafs
- Matthews/Nylander not putting up numbers; running into Chara doesn't help (Games 1 & 4)
- RHD a mess
- Boston outshot in Games 3 & 4 (collectively 77-40 ratio)
- troubles containing Marchand continues

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 20, 2018, 03:23:35 AM
This has probably already been said, but Marner is buzzing out there, and Matthews is sleeping. Wouldn't you want to try, in desperate times, to throw two of them together? Even on a powerplay? Just to see?

Anyway, it's too bad the Leafs shat all over the first two games, because the last two have been up for grabs. They're probably screwed now though.

Second test run is almost over. Next year has to be an actual playoff run, or some changes need to be made. And I'm not entirely opposed to trading Nylander like I used to be, since he's a non-factor in this series.

Very disappointing overall. I wish Babcock would just TRY Matthews/Marner together, even just on a powerplay, but I guess he knows best (And he does). I'm a fan of Bozak, but everytime he takes the first draw on a PP, I cringe. Why, Babs, Why?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 20, 2018, 08:17:55 AM
This has probably already been said, but Marner is buzzing out there, and Matthews is sleeping. Wouldn't you want to try, in desperate times, to throw two of them together? Even on a powerplay? Just to see?

Anyway, it's too bad the Leafs shat all over the first two games, because the last two have been up for grabs. They're probably screwed now though.

Second test run is almost over. Next year has to be an actual playoff run, or some changes need to be made. And I'm not entirely opposed to trading Nylander like I used to be, since he's a non-factor in this series.

Very disappointing overall. I wish Babcock would just TRY Matthews/Marner together, even just on a powerplay, but I guess he knows best (And he does). I'm a fan of Bozak, but everytime he takes the first draw on a PP, I cringe. Why, Babs, Why?

Coco brought up the good point that in Boston the Leafs should try Marleau-Matthews-Marner since Boston will want to put the Bergeron/top line against Matthews and those wingers have done a good job against that line. Hopefully that's what we see Saturday.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 20, 2018, 08:20:41 AM
This has probably already been said, but Marner is buzzing out there, and Matthews is sleeping. Wouldn't you want to try, in desperate times, to throw two of them together? Even on a powerplay? Just to see?

Anyway, it's too bad the Leafs shat all over the first two games, because the last two have been up for grabs. They're probably screwed now though.

Second test run is almost over. Next year has to be an actual playoff run, or some changes need to be made. And I'm not entirely opposed to trading Nylander like I used to be, since he's a non-factor in this series.

Very disappointing overall. I wish Babcock would just TRY Matthews/Marner together, even just on a powerplay, but I guess he knows best (And he does). I'm a fan of Bozak, but everytime he takes the first draw on a PP, I cringe. Why, Babs, Why?

Coco brought up the good point that in Boston the Leafs should try Marleau-Matthews-Marner since Boston will want to put the Bergeron/top line against Matthews and those wingers have done a good job against that line. Hopefully that's what we see Saturday.

Babcock is out of ideas. His brilliant move will be to re-insert Komarov into the lineup.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 20, 2018, 09:05:34 AM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 20, 2018, 09:08:27 AM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 20, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?

That'd be preferred. If scoring, in general, was easy against the Bruins hurray.

The Bruins have made concerted efforts to remove all our standard scoring plays and we haven't adapted.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 20, 2018, 09:44:44 AM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?

That'd be preferred. If scoring, in general, was easy against the Bruins hurray.

The Bruins have made concerted efforts to remove all our standard scoring plays and we haven't adapted.

I think the key for the rest of this series involves the Leafs scoring more goals than the Bruins in each of the next 3 games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 20, 2018, 10:18:05 AM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?

That'd be preferred. If scoring, in general, was easy against the Bruins hurray.

The Bruins have made concerted efforts to remove all our standard scoring plays and we haven't adapted.

I think the key for the rest of this series involves the Leafs scoring more goals than the Bruins in each of the next 3 games.

I would like to subscribe to your newsletter please.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 20, 2018, 11:09:54 AM
It's all good.  This is our last "free pass" season in the playoffs.  Next year, however, they'd damn well better win at least one round.

As for Saturday, if I'm Babcock, I let the greyhounds runs like in the first week of the season.  The only hope in this series is to overwhelm them with speed and hope Freddie can on his head to stop the odd-mans that would inevitably result.  Either we win a game or two or else lose 8-5.  Either way it will be fun.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 20, 2018, 11:11:34 AM
It's all good.  This is our last "free pass" season in the playoffs.  Next year, however, they'd damn well better win at least one round.

As for Saturday, if I'm Babcock, I let the greyhounds runs like in the first week of the season.  The only hope in this series is to overwhelm them with speed and hope Freddie can on his head to stop the odd-mans that would inevitably result.  Either we win a game or two or else lose 8-5.  Either way it will be fun.

At the same time I'd also be completely fine if Martin dressed as long as he succeeds in his only goal of murdering Marchand on the ice.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 20, 2018, 11:11:47 AM
As for trading Nylander, let us not be hasty.  He has been only slightly less effective than Matthews so far.  What we should be considering is whether Matthews is indeed a "generational" talent who has the ability to take over games, or instead just a very very good player.  Which would still be a wonderful thing, mind you.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 20, 2018, 11:13:17 AM
It's all good.  This is our last "free pass" season in the playoffs.  Next year, however, they'd damn well better win at least one round.

As for Saturday, if I'm Babcock, I let the greyhounds runs like in the first week of the season.  The only hope in this series is to overwhelm them with speed and hope Freddie can on his head to stop the odd-mans that would inevitably result.  Either we win a game or two or else lose 8-5.  Either way it will be fun.

At the same time I'd also be completely fine if Martin dressed as long as he succeeds in his only goal of murdering Marchand on the ice.

Well, inhumane and incorrect as it is to admit, yeah.  :P
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 20, 2018, 11:18:28 AM
I don't know why, but I'm in really good mood about the team today.  They are superfun to watch and it will only get better next year when 18/24 are in the lineup.  Hopefully this bit of an ass-kicking will pay dividends down the road.

Bring on Saturday!  Release the Hounds!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 20, 2018, 11:21:17 AM
I don't know why, but I'm in really good mood about the team today.  They are superfun to watch and it will only get better next year when 18/24 are in the lineup.  Hopefully this bit of an ass-kicking will pay dividends down the road.

Bring on Saturday!  Release the Hounds!

Happy 4/20 day bud.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 20, 2018, 11:25:33 AM
I don't even really think that Polak's been that bad in these playoffs, but it's downright embarrassing watching him and Dermott play in the defensive end when Dermott knows that he's the only one capable of moving the puck.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 20, 2018, 11:32:31 AM
I don't even really think that Polak's been that bad in these playoffs, but it's downright embarrassing watching him and Dermott play in the defensive end when Dermott knows that he's the only one capable of moving the puck.

Other than that 2-on-1 last night, I think Polak has been fine considering his limitations moving the puck up the ice.  (ie, I wouldn't expect any better with the puck on his stick)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 20, 2018, 11:40:27 AM
As for trading Nylander, let us not be hasty.  He has been only slightly less effective than Matthews so far.  What we should be considering is whether Matthews is indeed a "generational" talent who has the ability to take over games, or instead just a very very good player.  Which would still be a wonderful thing, mind you.

My biggest question mark with Nylander is whether he's ever going to get his will to come anywhere near his skill.  Right now, the biggest separator between Marner and Nylander has been will.  Mind you, its easier to be willing to engage with Torey Krug than it is with Zdeno Chara.

I don't see that problem with Matthews- he seems to be working hard and battling most of the time, but its harder to be effective with one guy on your line being a bit of a passenger without the puck.  Also, I'm not sure Matthews isn't still a bit injured. 

As for trading Nylander.  There is no way I'd advocate for trading him just to trade him due to that lack of will right now.  It can come around and I don't want it to come around if he's with another team.  But, if you're asking who would I trade out of the Big 3 to address our defense he's the only guy I'd consider and we'd have to be getting someone really really good back.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 20, 2018, 11:44:10 AM
As for trading Nylander.  There is no way I'd advocate for trading him just to trade him due to that lack of will right now.  It can come around and I don't want it to come around if he's with another team.  But, if you're asking who would I trade out of the Big 3 to address our defense he's the only guy I'd consider and we'd have to be getting someone really really good back.

If it's a Johansen-for-Jones type trade, I'd consider it sure. If it's Hall-for-Larsson, obviously not. The problem is Nashville was in such a unique situation with their loaded D to make that trade possible for them, and I don't think there's a team out there right now who has a 20-year old future top pairing defenceman that they'd be willing to move for an elite forward. Carolina would be the closest with Hanifin and a) I don't think he's at Nylander's level and b) being a lefty is probably the reason we didn't draft him in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to say we should trade Nylander for help on defence, but it's a lot harder to actually find a deal out there that works.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 20, 2018, 11:50:59 AM
As for trading Nylander.  There is no way I'd advocate for trading him just to trade him due to that lack of will right now.  It can come around and I don't want it to come around if he's with another team.  But, if you're asking who would I trade out of the Big 3 to address our defense he's the only guy I'd consider and we'd have to be getting someone really really good back.

If it's a Johansen-for-Jones type trade, I'd consider it sure. If it's Hall-for-Larsson, obviously not. The problem is Nashville was in such a unique situation with their loaded D to make that trade possible for them, and I don't think there's a team out there right now who has a 20-year old future top pairing defenceman that they'd be willing to move for an elite forward. Carolina would be the closest with Hanifin and a) I don't think he's at Nylander's level and b) being a lefty is probably the reason we didn't draft him in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to say we should trade Nylander for help on defence, but it's a lot harder to actually find a deal out there that works.

I completely agree with everything you stated there.  Its going to be really hard to find a deal that would work, and I emphasize that I wouldn't trade him just to trade him.  I'm also not opposed to trading him for an older d-man from a particular team out west that might need to think about rebuilding.  (I highly doubt that's in the cards- but one can dream)

Furthermore, unless we get Tavares next year- he's really our only internal option to play 3C.  I think he'd actually learn to engage MUCH more and test his will throughout the regular season much more playing down the middle. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 20, 2018, 11:58:10 AM
My biggest question mark with Nylander is whether he's ever going to get his will to come anywhere near his skill.  Right now, the biggest separator between Marner and Nylander has been will.  Mind you, its easier to be willing to engage with Torey Krug than it is with Zdeno Chara.

I think this is very well put.

It's pretty frustrating to see how good he can be is limited by how good he chooses to be. He has the physical gifts and skills to absolutely take over a game or a series.


Brad Marchand has a misinterpretation of this, but it is absolutely his will combined with his skill that lets him dictate play when he's on the ice (not his stupid stuff). I think it's pretty safe to say Willy is a couple of tiers above Marchand in skill. He's better than Pastrnak (skills-wise) too.

Challenge him. Put a chip on his shoulder.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 20, 2018, 12:23:34 PM
As for trading Nylander.  There is no way I'd advocate for trading him just to trade him due to that lack of will right now.  It can come around and I don't want it to come around if he's with another team.  But, if you're asking who would I trade out of the Big 3 to address our defense he's the only guy I'd consider and we'd have to be getting someone really really good back.

If it's a Johansen-for-Jones type trade, I'd consider it sure. If it's Hall-for-Larsson, obviously not. The problem is Nashville was in such a unique situation with their loaded D to make that trade possible for them, and I don't think there's a team out there right now who has a 20-year old future top pairing defenceman that they'd be willing to move for an elite forward. Carolina would be the closest with Hanifin and a) I don't think he's at Nylander's level and b) being a lefty is probably the reason we didn't draft him in the first place.

I guess what I'm saying is it's easy to say we should trade Nylander for help on defence, but it's a lot harder to actually find a deal out there that works.

I completely agree with everything you stated there.  Its going to be really hard to find a deal that would work, and I emphasize that I wouldn't trade him just to trade him.  I'm also not opposed to trading him for an older d-man from a particular team out west that might need to think about rebuilding.  (I highly doubt that's in the cards- but one can dream)

Furthermore, unless we get Tavares next year- he's really our only internal option to play 3C.  I think he'd actually learn to engage MUCH more and test his will throughout the regular season much more playing down the middle.

That's a really good point.  You can't float at C and he is a natural C.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2018, 01:28:15 PM
As for trading Nylander, let us not be hasty.  He has been only slightly less effective than Matthews so far.  What we should be considering is whether Matthews is indeed a "generational" talent who has the ability to take over games, or instead just a very very good player.  Which would still be a wonderful thing, mind you.
Take your own advice and pull it back a bit on the generational talent evaluation. He is. He's just struggling right now and it's part of the growing process. Matthews is not the problem here. He wasn't the one making the mistakes last night. Gardiner made the huge mistake last night and then Zaitsev did on the 2 on 1. I think Chara and McAvoy deserve some credit here to. The Bozak line is useless 5 v 5. I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: bustaheims on April 20, 2018, 01:45:35 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: L K on April 20, 2018, 02:12:18 PM
I'm ok with a 1-year, maybe 2-year deal for Thornton but that really doesn't seem like a move that makes the Leafs drastically better and I don't think he's coming to Toronto for a small team friendly contract.

I get breaking the bank for a guy like Tavares because you are getting a guy who can rival Matthews as our best player and it vastly improves the depth of the team simply by being able to ice Tavares/Matthews/Kadri as your top 3 lines and you really can ice hot garbage on the 4th line with that kind of center depth.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 20, 2018, 02:15:44 PM
I know we have expectations on the kids to find their next levels, but I think some credit needs to go to Chara and McAvoy too. The only times we've scored against them were when Chara fell down and was a non-factor, or was on too long from an icing.

I would have liked to see a stronger effort on the tactics side to overload Chara with speed from the get go.

Or how about scoring goals when Chara and McAvoy aren't on the the ice for the other 38 minutes of the game?

That'd be preferred. If scoring, in general, was easy against the Bruins hurray.

The Bruins have made concerted efforts to remove all our standard scoring plays and we haven't adapted.

For me it's the same as after the first game.  When Matthews and Nylander don't get on the board, through lack of effort or just plain not playing as well as they have during most periods of the year, the Leafs are going to lose on more nights than not.

You think they haven't adapted, and I think they're just not executing.  I was hoping that it would be the opposite, in that they'd find another gear given the playoff pressure. 

Nylander has been particularly ineffective, which many have already pointed out.

Unless the Kadri!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 20, 2018, 02:18:45 PM
I'm ok with a 1-year, maybe 2-year deal for Thornton but that really doesn't seem like a move that makes the Leafs drastically better and I don't think he's coming to Toronto for a small team friendly contract.

I get breaking the bank for a guy like Tavares because you are getting a guy who can rival Matthews as our best player and it vastly improves the depth of the team simply by being able to ice Tavares/Matthews/Kadri as your top 3 lines and you really can ice hot garbage on the 4th line with that kind of center depth.

I'm all-in on signing Tavares, but they really need to address the RHD situation.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 20, 2018, 02:28:31 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk   Toronto Maple Leafs      UFA   28   LW   Left      80   36   18   54   1   14:52
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane   San Jose Sharks      UFA   26   LW   Left      77   29   25   54   -8   19:23
-   -   -   -   -      $6,000,000   $5,250,000
3. James Neal   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   30   LW, RW   Left      70   25   19   44   -7   17:12
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   34   LW, RW   Right      79   24   32   56   -2   14:23
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin   Vancouver Canucks      UFA   37   LW   Left      80   23   32   55   -21   15:13
-   -   -   -   -      $7,000,000   $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash   Boston Bruins      UFA   33   LW, RW   Left      71   21   13   34   -12   16:51
-   -   -   -   -      $8,200,000   $7,800,000
7. David Perron   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   29   LW, RW   Right      70   16   50   66   1   17:48
-   -   -   -   -      $3,750,000   $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon   New Jersey Devils      UFA   29   LW   Left      73   16   24   40   0   17:03
-   -   -   -   -      $2,100,000   $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau   Colorado Avalanche      UFA   32   LW, RW   Right      78   13   20   33   4   15:53
-   -   -   -   -      $2,400,000   $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz   Tampa Bay Lightning      UFA   38   LW   Left      81   13   15   28   7   11:56
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp   Chicago Blackhawks      UFA   36   LW, C   Right      69   10   11   21   -15   12:50
-   -   -   -   -      $800,000   $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner   New Jersey Devils      UFA   30   RW, LW   Left      79   27   9   36   13   14:43
-   -   -   -   -      $1,650,000   $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   28   LW   Left      68   9   15   24   -9   13:21
-   -   -   -   -      $2,900,000   $2,200,000
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 20, 2018, 02:32:40 PM
Sign Tavares, and then you can really cheap out on LW. We have internal options to get us part way there.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2018, 02:34:02 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.
I think they look at Kapenan to fill that void next year. I think both him and Johnsson are with the big club. I also think that Aaltonen can be a centre for us.
As for the trading of Nylander. Unless you're getting back a Seth Jones, it isn't happening. We all need to relax here. This is a learning experience. The Matthews line is going up against one of the best D man in the NHL. And McAvoy is no slouch either. Everybody praises Marner and rightfully so but he's not going up against Chara. He also has Reilly on the backend most shifts. Matthews has Gardiner most times and I think if you want to change things up, you put Reilly out with Matthews.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2018, 02:38:48 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk   Toronto Maple Leafs      UFA   28   LW   Left      80   36   18   54   1   14:52
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane   San Jose Sharks      UFA   26   LW   Left      77   29   25   54   -8   19:23
-   -   -   -   -      $6,000,000   $5,250,000
3. James Neal   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   30   LW, RW   Left      70   25   19   44   -7   17:12
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   34   LW, RW   Right      79   24   32   56   -2   14:23
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin   Vancouver Canucks      UFA   37   LW   Left      80   23   32   55   -21   15:13
-   -   -   -   -      $7,000,000   $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash   Boston Bruins      UFA   33   LW, RW   Left      71   21   13   34   -12   16:51
-   -   -   -   -      $8,200,000   $7,800,000
7. David Perron   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   29   LW, RW   Right      70   16   50   66   1   17:48
-   -   -   -   -      $3,750,000   $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon   New Jersey Devils      UFA   29   LW   Left      73   16   24   40   0   17:03
-   -   -   -   -      $2,100,000   $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau   Colorado Avalanche      UFA   32   LW, RW   Right      78   13   20   33   4   15:53
-   -   -   -   -      $2,400,000   $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz   Tampa Bay Lightning      UFA   38   LW   Left      81   13   15   28   7   11:56
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp   Chicago Blackhawks      UFA   36   LW, C   Right      69   10   11   21   -15   12:50
-   -   -   -   -      $800,000   $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner   New Jersey Devils      UFA   30   RW, LW   Left      79   27   9   36   13   14:43
-   -   -   -   -      $1,650,000   $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   28   LW   Left      68   9   15   24   -9   13:21
-   -   -   -   -      $2,900,000   $2,200,000
I don't want anyone on that list.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 20, 2018, 02:57:53 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

1. James van Riemsdyk   Toronto Maple Leafs      UFA   28   LW   Left      80   36   18   54   1   14:52
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $4,250,000
2. Evander Kane   San Jose Sharks      UFA   26   LW   Left      77   29   25   54   -8   19:23
-   -   -   -   -      $6,000,000   $5,250,000
3. James Neal   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   30   LW, RW   Left      70   25   19   44   -7   17:12
-   -   -   -   -      $5,000,000   $5,000,000
4. Thomas Vanek   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   34   LW, RW   Right      79   24   32   56   -2   14:23
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
5. Daniel Sedin   Vancouver Canucks      UFA   37   LW   Left      80   23   32   55   -21   15:13
-   -   -   -   -      $7,000,000   $7,000,000
6. Rick Nash   Boston Bruins      UFA   33   LW, RW   Left      71   21   13   34   -12   16:51
-   -   -   -   -      $8,200,000   $7,800,000
7. David Perron   Vegas Golden Knights      UFA   29   LW, RW   Right      70   16   50   66   1   17:48
-   -   -   -   -      $3,750,000   $3,750,000
8. Patrick Maroon   New Jersey Devils      UFA   29   LW   Left      73   16   24   40   0   17:03
-   -   -   -   -      $2,100,000   $2,000,000
9. Blake Comeau   Colorado Avalanche      UFA   32   LW, RW   Right      78   13   20   33   4   15:53
-   -   -   -   -      $2,400,000   $2,400,000
10. Chris Kunitz   Tampa Bay Lightning      UFA   38   LW   Left      81   13   15   28   7   11:56
-   -   -   -   -      $2,000,000   $2,000,000
11. Patrick Sharp   Chicago Blackhawks      UFA   36   LW, C   Right      69   10   11   21   -15   12:50
-   -   -   -   -      $800,000   $800,000

Here are the right winger UFA's that broke 20:

1. Michael Grabner   New Jersey Devils      UFA   30   RW, LW   Left      79   27   9   36   13   14:43
-   -   -   -   -      $1,650,000   $1,650,000

One guy that didn't get in to that 20 goal range that might fit the bill is Matt Calvert from Columbus. 

12. Matt Calvert   Columbus Blue Jackets      UFA   28   LW   Left      68   9   15   24   -9   13:21
-   -   -   -   -      $2,900,000   $2,200,000

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 20, 2018, 03:09:09 PM

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.
No thanks on Nash. I think he's done. He's got 1 point so far against the Leafs. I don't even notice him out on the ice. I think Johnsson and or Kaps will be used more next year. Aaltonen I think was their centre on the Marlies....maybe they can be our 3rd/4th line next year???
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: bustaheims on April 20, 2018, 03:14:00 PM
Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:

They're not limited to the UFA market. There will be some trade options available that won't come with a huge asset cost.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 20, 2018, 04:43:57 PM

Rick Nash seems to me, to be someone who fits most of that description.  He's not going to get anywhere near the same cap hit he has now and won't command JvR term and money.  Depends how cheap he can come, but I wouldn't mind Rick Nash on the right contract.  Plays the same net-front presence on the PP (not quite as good), but is better at 5v5- specifically defensively.

That said, I think we may already have our replacement in Johnsson.  He's definitely not JvR, but he's ready for a 3rd line role or better.
No thanks on Nash. I think he's done. He's got 1 point so far against the Leafs. I don't even notice him out on the ice. I think Johnsson and or Kaps will be used more next year. Aaltonen I think was their centre on the Marlies....maybe they can be our 3rd/4th line next year???

I'm not advocating for Nash at all.  I just think he's the only one on that list who could be your 3rd line LW/PP net front guy ala JvR.

I think we have enough Top 9 NHL wingers (LW:  Marleau, Johnsson, Hyman  RW:  Marner, Kapanen, Brown) and that's with Nylander at 3C.  If we sign a 3C, then you've got a Top 9 winger playing on the 4th line again as Nylander would push someone down.

Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 20, 2018, 10:58:59 PM
I can't see the Leafs bringing JVR or Bozak back.

I can see Bozak coming back on a cheap deal, but only if the Leafs don't sign Tavares or Thornton. On JvR, I think they look for a cheaper piece - a 20ish goal winger who is better defensively. Not sure who might be available to fit that mold, but I imagine there's a couple potential options.

Not really.  Here are the left wingers that are UFA's in the summer:


I think you're missing Kovalchuk...
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 21, 2018, 03:48:54 PM
If the Leafs had a good playoff run and JVR had been instrumental, then yes I would have said there was a good chance he would come back.  But the way things are looking now, he's gone.  They need some extra cap space to pay Matthews/Marner/Nylander.

I view Bozak as extremely replaceable and I'm not a big fan of his.  It's great that Burke got him for nothing, but at this point I think the organization should move on.  Maybe a one year "show me" contract for the right kind of player.  The Leafs have some cap space to work with next season but after that it's gone.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 21, 2018, 04:29:35 PM
If the Leafs had a good playoff run and JVR had been instrumental, then yes I would have said there was a good chance he would come back.  But the way things are looking now, he's gone.  They need some extra cap space to pay Matthews/Marner/Nylander.

I view Bozak as extremely replaceable and I'm not a big fan of his.  It's great that Burke got him for nothing, but at this point I think the organization should move on.  Maybe a one year "show me" contract for the right kind of player.  The Leafs have some cap space to work with next season but after that it's gone.
This summer will be interesting. If they get Tavares your top 3 centers are set and you're just in need of a 4th, I'm sure they'll be journeymen centers out there like Dom Moore who could fit that role, or else try internally with Altonen maybe.

If no Tavares then you'll need 2 centers.

I agree with letting JVR go, replacements are internal already with Johnsson and Kapanen getting bigger roles.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Coco-puffs on April 23, 2018, 10:24:11 AM

If no Tavares then you'll need 2 centers.


I guess you don't want Nylander playing Center?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 10:40:10 AM
Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 23, 2018, 10:59:46 AM
Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.

Tavares ☺
Thornton
Nylander
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 23, 2018, 04:11:50 PM
Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.
So you're saying the Leafs will get rid of Nylander if they can then, right?  Because they're not going to have room under the cap to sign Tavares or Thornton for more than one year.  Even for a king's ransom I can't see either of those guys signing a one year deal.  I could be wrong.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: OldTimeHockey on April 23, 2018, 04:13:50 PM
I'm not sure the Leafs do anything more than kick the tires of Tavares
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 04:19:32 PM
Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.
So you're saying the Leafs will get rid of Nylander if they can then, right?  Because they're not going to have room under the cap to sign Tavares or Thornton for more than one year.  Even for a king's ransom I can't see either of those guys signing a one year deal.  I could be wrong.

You can absolutely fit Tavares and the big-3 into the cap long-term. Especially if the team can make the 3rd year of Marleau's contract disappear. It's a topic that was looked at here: https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/04/10/the-leafs-and-john-tavares-are-a-great-match/

It would of course effect the teams ability to get a big name RD but who knows if the opportunity for that will ever come up in free agency.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 23, 2018, 04:40:31 PM
I think that Tavares article is sounding eerily like a replay of the Stamkos talk.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 04:42:57 PM
I think that Tavares article is sounding eerily like a replay of the Stamkos talk.

Based on the accounts that we have though Toronto was probably Stamkos' 2nd option after Tampa... so it's not as if the Stamkos talk was unwarranted.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 23, 2018, 04:48:58 PM

I swear I honestly forgot Martin was on the team for a second.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 23, 2018, 05:00:21 PM

I swear I honestly forgot Martin was on the team for a second.

So is Josh Leivo.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 24, 2018, 09:19:42 AM
We've clawed back to a one-game decision. Leafs haven't even played their best yet.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 10:26:44 AM
We've clawed back to a one-game decision. Leafs haven't even played their best yet.

This is what gives me hope for game 7.  If Leafs can play their best, they should be able to take it.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on April 24, 2018, 10:29:24 AM
We've clawed back to a one-game decision. Leafs haven't even played their best yet.

This is what gives me hope for game 7.  If Leafs can play their best, they should be able to take it.

If Kapanen scores, I'll start to worry.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 12:24:39 PM
When does round 2 start for the Leafs?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 24, 2018, 12:31:29 PM
When does round 2 start for the Leafs?

lol.  ballsy.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 12:32:12 PM
When does round 2 start for the Leafs?

lol.  ballsy.


(http://www.czhuari.com/uploadfiles/162.251.21.48/webid383/source/201609/147382694871.jpg)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: princedpw on April 24, 2018, 12:36:43 PM
Our 3rd centre next season will be Tavares, Thornton, or Nylander. You can take that to the bank.

They'll try for the first two, and if they strike out it'll be Willie.
So you're saying the Leafs will get rid of Nylander if they can then, right?  Because they're not going to have room under the cap to sign Tavares or Thornton for more than one year.  Even for a king's ransom I can't see either of those guys signing a one year deal.  I could be wrong.

You can absolutely fit Tavares and the big-3 into the cap long-term. Especially if the team can make the 3rd year of Marleau's contract disappear. It's a topic that was looked at here: https://mapleleafsnation.com/2018/04/10/the-leafs-and-john-tavares-are-a-great-match/

It would of course effect the teams ability to get a big name RD but who knows if the opportunity for that will ever come up in free agency.

If the big name RD was a possibility then it would make sense to investigate flipping Nylander (for example) for picks/prospects -- we'll need to continue to have a pipeline of cheap guys coming up from the minors.  Tavares is better (though more expensive) and at a more valuable position (center ... at least he's better at center than Nylander will ber in the short term) than Nylander so replacing Nylander with Tavares on the roster is a win.  Getting back a treasure trove of picks and prospects for Nylander would make it even more of a win.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 24, 2018, 12:43:47 PM

*gulp*
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 12:47:09 PM

*gulp*

He ain't going in.  You go with the lineup that got you there, and Komarov wasn't it.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 12:57:58 PM

*gulp*

He ain't going in.  You go with the lineup that got you there, and Komarov wasn't it.
Can't see Babs putting him in. The team has won 3 of 4 without him....0 and 2 with him...Choice seems as easy as the insert Martin debate!
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bullfrog on April 24, 2018, 01:22:41 PM
Ya, now's not the time to switch. He can make that decision prior to Round 2.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 24, 2018, 01:25:38 PM
Here's a fun story:  I was watching the game about 15 minutes behind time because I paused it to help put my little girl to bed.  Unbeknownst to me, my wife set up recording shows at 10pm.

So the F'ing TV thing goes live to The National at 10pm, immediately wiping out the last 15 minutes of the game.  There was nothing, absolutely nothing, I could do.  So I login here to make sure they held on...I was very happy to see that they did, but super pissed about missing the final part of the 3rd.

So anyways, can someone tell me what Brown did, and what Plekanec did (other than score, which I obviously didn't see) to impress us so much?  What did I miss?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 24, 2018, 01:29:22 PM
So anyways, can someone tell me what Brown did, and what Plekanec did (other than score, which I obviously didn't see) to impress us so much?  What did I miss?

Marner took a puck-over-the-glass penalty with like 5 minutes left. PKers came up big to kill it. Plekanec and Hyman both had key blocks and Brown intercepted a pass to spring him and Kapanen on 2-on-1 that killed some time.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 24, 2018, 01:31:49 PM
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 24, 2018, 01:33:31 PM
Cool.  Thanks Carlton. 
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 02:08:47 PM
So anyways, can someone tell me what Brown did, and what Plekanec did (other than score, which I obviously didn't see) to impress us so much?  What did I miss?

Marner took a puck-over-the-glass penalty with like 5 minutes left. PKers came up big to kill it. Plekanec and Hyman both had key blocks and Brown intercepted a pass to spring him and Kapanen on 2-on-1 that killed some time.
Not only did Brown do that with the 2 on 1, he also skated his ass back after the Kappy miss and took the puck off a Bruin in the Leafs zone and iced the puck. Clearly he was gassed but he got back and made the play.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: bustaheims on April 24, 2018, 02:14:10 PM
Can't see Babs putting him in. The team has won 3 of 4 without him....0 and 2 with him...Choice seems as easy as the insert Martin debate!

Basically. Babcock is pretty old school in a lot of ways. He's not going make personnel changes to a winning lineup until he has to. He's gonna "dance with the one who brought him," so to speak.

thankfully, in this case, it's the right decision talent-wise.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 24, 2018, 02:18:22 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 02:27:11 PM
I absolutely love that Connor Brown stepped up when it mattered most.  This is a player who's been doubted at every level he's ever played.  Leafs fans fell in love with the guy last year, but this year some doubts creeped back in.  There have been complaints about his play throughout the season, but once again Brown Cow steps up and shows he can play.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 02:27:48 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.
Trouble scoring but he's played well. He's cancelled quite a few icings with his speed and I think overall he's had more quality chances to score then any other Leaf. I think he's hit 4 posts? Unfortunately for him he was playing with Bozak and JVR. Hardly speedsters and probably our worst 5 v 5 forwards. Hopefully he can bury one in game 7.
As for struggling players, I'd say Dermott seems overwhelmed out there at times and is struggling the most. It's not easy being a rookie D man. Great learning experience for him tho.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 02:28:06 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.

I'll go with that cliche that it's better to have a player getting a ton of chances and not scoring then to not notice him at all cause he's not getting any shots whatsoever.  I think he'll score, it's just a matter of time.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bill_Berg on April 24, 2018, 02:32:24 PM
Here's a fun story:  I was watching the game about 15 minutes behind time because I paused it to help put my little girl to bed.  Unbeknownst to me, my wife set up recording shows at 10pm.

So the F'ing TV thing goes live to The National at 10pm, immediately wiping out the last 15 minutes of the game.  There was nothing, absolutely nothing, I could do.  So I login here to make sure they held on...I was very happy to see that they did, but super pissed about missing the final part of the 3rd.

So anyways, can someone tell me what Brown did, and what Plekanec did (other than score, which I obviously didn't see) to impress us so much?  What did I miss?

You can login to now.sportsnet.com and watch the entire game, although I'm not sure how long it takes to show up. Quick I think. You just need to login through your cable provider. That's how I saw the last 15 min of Game 5. I didn't miss it because I was putting the kids to bed but because I was watching through my fingers live and wanted an unobstructed view later.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 02:32:57 PM
I absolutely love that Connor Brown stepped up when it mattered most.  This is a player who's been doubted at every level he's ever played.  Leafs fans fell in love with the guy last year, but this year some doubts creeped back in.  There have been complaints about his play throughout the season, but once again Brown Cow steps up and shows he can play.
Brown has mostly played with JVR and Bozak this season. They're probably the 2 hardest players to play with 5 v 5. Very weak defensively. Brown is a tireless worker and they're going to need him next game because you know, Bergeron is going against the Matthews line so if they can hold serve against them, we have a good chance of winning. I like Brown.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: L K on April 24, 2018, 02:33:00 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.

I'll take his scoring struggles but sound defense over some of the other struggles we have seen with other 4th line players (Komarov).
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 02:34:57 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.

I'll take his scoring struggles but sound defense over some of the other struggles we have seen with other 4th line players (Komarov).
Definitely.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Frank E on April 24, 2018, 03:03:34 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.

I'll take his scoring struggles but sound defense over some of the other struggles we have seen with other 4th line players (Komarov).

Was it last night that he blew a tire in the DZ and gave it away?

Anyways, between him and Dermott, the playoff nerves of some of these young players might be a factor.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Andy on April 24, 2018, 04:09:51 PM
I absolutely love that Connor Brown stepped up when it mattered most.  This is a player who's been doubted at every level he's ever played.  Leafs fans fell in love with the guy last year, but this year some doubts creeped back in.  There have been complaints about his play throughout the season, but once again Brown Cow steps up and shows he can play.
Brown has mostly played with JVR and Bozak this season. They're probably the 2 hardest players to play with 5 v 5. Very weak defensively. Brown is a tireless worker and they're going to need him next game because you know, Bergeron is going against the Matthews line so if they can hold serve against them, we have a good chance of winning. I like Brown.

I really think this has hampered Brown most of the season, just as it hampered Marner when he was on that line this year. I think we'll see a nice rebound season from him next year when (please God) Bozak is gone or, at least, retained as no more than a 4th line center at a significantly reduced price and Brown is somewhere on the top 9.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 04:57:58 PM
Kapanen is having a tough series.

I'll take his scoring struggles but sound defense over some of the other struggles we have seen with other 4th line players (Komarov).

Was it last night that he blew a tire in the DZ and gave it away?

Anyways, between him and Dermott, the playoff nerves of some of these young players might be a factor.
Yes it was last night he blew a tire. While it didn't end up costing us, Kaps doesn't make a lot of costly mistakes out there. Pretty dependable player. Same as Johnsson. No one is mistake free.
Dermott to me, is the only Leaf looking overwhelmed out there. He is clearly struggling at times,
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: sickbeast on April 24, 2018, 06:25:28 PM
Johnsson is just flying out there.  I would be shocked if Babcock pulls him out so Komarov can play.  And if Johnsson continues playing like this, Komarov may be used sparingly going forward, if at all, unless there is an injury.

So many talented young players keep coming out of nowhere.  It's really amazing to watch.  It's just going to keep happening also.  I think next season this team is going to be even better.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 24, 2018, 09:02:59 PM
Johnsson is just flying out there.  I would be shocked if Babcock pulls him out so Komarov can play.  And if Johnsson continues playing like this, Komarov may be used sparingly going forward, if at all, unless there is an injury.

So many talented young players keep coming out of nowhere.  It's really amazing to watch.  It's just going to keep happening also.  I think next season this team is going to be even better.
Gord Miller was talking about that today...Take out JVR, Bozak, Leo and Polak, he thinks the Leafs will be at least even only using players from within. Says no way they'll be worse. The team is going to get better and better. They all also agreed that Leo can't go in tomorrow night. Johnsson proves every game he's an NHL player and a better option.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Zee on April 24, 2018, 09:33:50 PM
Stop the Leo talk. There's no way Babcock puts him in short of an injury to two forwards (Moore would go in before Komarov). Babcock would look like an idiot if he took out a healthy a Johnsson for Leo
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: mr grieves on April 25, 2018, 01:05:44 AM
Kapanen is having a tough series.
Trouble scoring but he's played well. He's cancelled quite a few icings with his speed and I think overall he's had more quality chances to score then any other Leaf. I think he's hit 4 posts? Unfortunately for him he was playing with Bozak and JVR. Hardly speedsters and probably our worst 5 v 5 forwards. Hopefully he can bury one in game 7.

Agreed with this, and especially the point on icings. Watching all the defensive zone face-offs against the Bergeron line is really the most stressful and unpleasant part of the series. Fewer of those they have to face the better.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: hockeyfan1 on April 25, 2018, 04:42:48 PM
Breaking down the stats: a few good points to be made...

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/HXVz1r.png)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/8fqBhE.png)


https://theathletic.com/324275/2018/04/24/dellow-matthews-chara-matchup-has-been-closer-than-it-appears/ (https://theathletic.com/324275/2018/04/24/dellow-matthews-chara-matchup-has-been-closer-than-it-appears/)
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Bonsixx on April 26, 2018, 03:46:24 AM
Ugh...

Anyway, bye JVR, bye Uncle Leo. I'd bring Bozak back on a sweetheart deal, like $2M a year, which I doubt he'd do, so goodbye to him too, I guess.

Gardiner's performance in this game was horrible, which I'm sure has been documented in the gameday thread... And a complete flop from Andersen was unforunate too.

At least they probably saved money on Nylander for the next three years. They need to sign a real defenceman and at least one real defensive foward.

Other than that... that sucked. I work nights, so I PVR everything and work my balls off to avoid the score. When it was 5-4 Bruins, I just fast-forwarded to the inevitable end. Bruins were the better team all series and they deserved to win in a lot less than seven games.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 26, 2018, 08:19:53 AM
One thing the Leafs need to do next season is find a way to move Hyman to the right side permanently. He's just a better player on his strong side. If a bunch of us can clearly see that then surely somebody on the Leafs team can too.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Highlander on April 26, 2018, 11:04:18 AM
It sucks the lost but I gotta take heart that they fought back to force a game 7.  That in some ways lessens the pain.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 26, 2018, 01:52:58 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-decisions-31-thoughts/

Very Toronto-heavy edition of 31 thoughts

Quote
22. After Game 1 of the Toronto/Boston series, the Bruins got a, ďWeíd prefer if you could tell Brad Marchand to stop licking peopleĒ phone call from the NHL.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 26, 2018, 03:11:34 PM
Wonder if we see any of Matthews/Nylander/Marner/Rielly/Gardiner get added to their respective World Championship teams.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 27, 2018, 01:57:56 PM
https://theathletic.com/332558/2018/04/27/bourne-on-throwing-hits-and-why-auston-matthews-will-need-to-play-less-physical-to-find-playoff-success/

Avert your eyes, azzurri.

Quote
The thing with hitting is that it has a very real fatigue factor on the players who throw them most from game to game. You have all this momentum as a forechecker, as you pump your legs to get in on the play, and when you ďfinish your check,Ē as I was always told to do, you generally come to a dead stop.

Now neither you, nor the player youíve hit have any advantage Ė youíre at the same place on the ice without any momentum, and youíve got to get up to speed again and get back in the play. Stopping and starting is exhausting.

Young players today have learned to simply not throw that meaningless hit, particularly more than a second or two after the opposing player has moved the puck, and particularly on the forecheck. That way they can keep their speed up, and without wasting energy, get back in the play in good defensive position quicker and with more energy to spare.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 28, 2018, 08:36:34 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/04/27/mike-babcock-on-his-relationship-with-auston-matthews-auston-and-i-have-a-real-good-relationship-were-not-buddies-its-more-like-father-son/

Why doesn't Matthews get 20+ min a night? lol
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 28, 2018, 08:44:44 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/04/27/mike-babcock-on-his-relationship-with-auston-matthews-auston-and-i-have-a-real-good-relationship-were-not-buddies-its-more-like-father-son/

Why doesn't Matthews get 20+ min a night? lol

Uhhhh... you thought "well McDavid and Barkov played 20+ minutes and their team didn't make the playoffs" was a good answer to that question?
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: Guilt Trip on April 28, 2018, 08:49:22 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/04/27/mike-babcock-on-his-relationship-with-auston-matthews-auston-and-i-have-a-real-good-relationship-were-not-buddies-its-more-like-father-son/

Why doesn't Matthews get 20+ min a night? lol
Ray Ferraro was shocked when Hayes told him Matthews numbers amongst centremen in the league. He also said Babs didn't do his job by putting Matthews with people to help him. He says a superstar like him needs more ice time, not less. If the Leafs won, Babs would prove his point with his decisions regarding Matthews. Problem was they lost so Babs' way didn't work in his eyes and that was one way to improve the team. O'Neill piped in that Bergeron gets to play with 2 All Stars, Matthews, not so much but he's expected to out produce him? Not happening. I enjoy listening to Ray and Jeff. Guys that played the game and were good players.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 28, 2018, 09:43:21 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/04/27/mike-babcock-on-his-relationship-with-auston-matthews-auston-and-i-have-a-real-good-relationship-were-not-buddies-its-more-like-father-son/

Why doesn't Matthews get 20+ min a night? lol

Uhhhh... you thought "well McDavid and Barkov played 20+ minutes and their team didn't make the playoffs" was a good answer to that question?

It made me laugh
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 28, 2018, 10:04:49 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/04/27/mike-babcock-on-his-relationship-with-auston-matthews-auston-and-i-have-a-real-good-relationship-were-not-buddies-its-more-like-father-son/

Why doesn't Matthews get 20+ min a night? lol

Uhhhh... you thought "well McDavid and Barkov played 20+ minutes and their team didn't make the playoffs" was a good answer to that question?

It made me laugh

Oooooooh k. I thought you were laughing at the question, not the answer.
Title: Re: 2017-18 Toronto Maple Leafs - Playoffs Edition
Post by: herman on April 28, 2018, 10:11:53 PM
Itís a fair question, but yeah the answer made me laugh.

I think the real answer was that the Leafs werenít chasing the game as much this season and we had significant forward depth. I donít think coaches make their decisions based on the stopwatches.