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Maple Leafs News and Views => 2018/19 Leafs Game Day Threads => 2011 to 2018 GDTs (OLD) => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on December 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM

Title: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 11, 2017, 11:28:15 PM
(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/230.png)@(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/15.png)
20-10-1, 41 points | 11-11-7, 29 points

Projected Lines

Hyman-Nylander-Brown
Marleau-Kadri-Komarov
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore-Leivo

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Borgman-Polak

Andersen
             
Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds
Konecny-Patrick-Weise
Raffl-Filppula-Voracek
Weal-Laughton-Leier

Provorov-MacDonald
Hagg-Gostisbehere
Sanheim-Gudas

Elliott

Scratches

Connor Carrick
Nikita Soshnikov
Auston Matthews
      
Jori Lehtera
Mark Alt

Game Notes

TOR
•Andersen (17-8-1, 2.67 GAA, .922 Sv%) will likely start for the Leafs
•Thanks to herman and Nik for filling in while I was away. I didn't get to keep too many tabs on the Leafs during my break. Surely they didn't do anything stupid like keep Nylander on the 4th line for 3 of the 4 games that I missed?
•Or even if Babs did do that, surely he would have made sure Willy still saw a healthy amount of ice-time and wasn't essentially benched for an entire 3rd period of a game, right?
•Or EVEN IF those things happened surely Nylander would have played tons in a game where he lined up as the 1C and was one of the few fresh forwards on the 2nd half of a back to back, RIGHT???
•Oh, and Polak, he's not still playing is he? Boy imagine him playing 7 straight games with Carrick in the press box haha
•All those things happened? Yeeeeaaah right. Next you're going to tell me that Curtis McElhinney pitched a shutout while I was away!

PHI
•Brian Elliott (9-6-6, 2.79 GAA, .912 Sv%) will likely start for the Flyers
•It looked like the Flyers season was going to be over very early this year. They lost 10 games in a row and talk was growing about players being traded and coaches fired. But they followed that up with a 3-0 road trip through Western Canada to keep their playoff hopes alive
•The Flyers are led offensively by Voracek and Giroux, both of whom are back to being PPG players. The two combined for just 119 points last season. This season they are on pace for a combined 194 points
•Sean Couturier is also stepping up offensively in his new role as the teams 1C with Giroux pushed to the wing. Couturier has 28 points in 29 games. His previous career high was 39 in 63 games
•After a good-but-not-amazing sophomore season, Shayne Gostisbehere is back among the defensive scoring leaders. He has 22 points in 26 games
•Travis "OMG WHY DIDN'T THE LEAFS PICK HIM" Konecny has just 9 points in 29 games this season. He finished last season with just 8 points in his last 30 games


Injuries

•Nathan Horton - Back - Out indefinitely
•Joffrey Lupul - Actually Injured - Out indefinitely
•Auston Matthews - Upper Body - Day to day
      
•Jori Lehtera - Illness - Questionable Tuesday
•Michal Neuvirth - Leg - Injured Reserve
•Brandon Manning - Hand - Injured Reserve
•Colin McDonald - Lower Body - Injured Reserve

Stream Options

https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLstreams
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 12:53:31 AM

ATOOOA BITSAT?

I don't get it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Kaberle15 on December 12, 2017, 07:59:36 AM
Lets win this one boys, with or without Matthews.

Go Leafs go!!!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Andy on December 12, 2017, 08:16:24 AM
Finally, a respectable GDT!

(_!_)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 08:31:42 AM

ATOOOA BITSAT?

I don't get it.

*thinks for a second*

*looks at Nik's gdt again*

(https://m.popkey.co/0f207a/aW0wA.gif)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 11:43:49 AM

Marleau and Nylander swap places.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 11:57:16 AM
Standard road game sans Matthews deployment
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 12:14:09 PM

Matthews is apparently confirmed out with a case of none of your business.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: disco on December 12, 2017, 03:05:54 PM
100% Auston is a serious 5-on-5 generator. Even nagging injury Auston, which he's been since before the first absence, is a contributor. At least the Leafs have the luxury of properly managing their asset. There's no way an Ekblad situation would ever happen, where Aaron was rushed back several times by a Florida club desperate to make the playoffs and suffered several concussions in a row. Kid will figure it out.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Downtown Connor Brown on December 12, 2017, 03:57:07 PM
How is it possible that a team that lost 10 straight still has playoff hopes? Stupid Flyers always seem to play well against us.

GO LEAFS GO!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: bustaheims on December 12, 2017, 04:58:57 PM
How is it possible that a team that lost 10 straight still has playoff hopes? Stupid Flyers always seem to play well against us.

Playoff hopes may be being generous. They're 6 points out of the last wildcard, and the play in the toughest division in hockey. They're not out of it, but they're not really in it, either - not without a significant winning streak.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 05:11:39 PM
Playoff hopes may be being generous. They're 6 points out of the last wildcard, and the play in the toughest division in hockey. They're not out of it, but they're not really in it, either - not without a significant winning streak.

It may have been a little generous yeah but a win tonight would put them 4 points back of the Rangers for the final WC spot with GP being equal. And they'd be 4 points behind Pittsburgh for 9th in the East with 2 games in hand. And they'd be on a 4-game winning streak which is pretty close to significant these days. I'm not picking them to make the playoffs from here but a strong finish to the month and they're right in the thick of things.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 07:26:16 PM
Thanks Elliott!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on December 12, 2017, 07:26:48 PM
Good response!  Marleau scores.  1-1 tie.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 07:32:57 PM
I missed the PHI goal, what was Babcock complaining about?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
I missed the PHI goal, what was Babcock complaining about?

Marleau was kicked out of the faceoff for a rather dubious reason, so Hyman had to take it. Philly won it clean and got a shot off right away to score.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 07:37:00 PM
Good to see Polak keep his streak of awesomeness intact by taking a penalty.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Downtown Connor Brown on December 12, 2017, 08:08:51 PM
Philly has been all over the Leafs to start the second. Andersen has made a few very nice saves.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 08:25:27 PM
I see another spirited effort 9 shots halfway through the game. Man I know we are winning but being outshot night after night is getting old.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 08:31:50 PM
Hey.  A play of power.  How does that work again?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Rob on December 12, 2017, 08:32:37 PM
NICE!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on December 12, 2017, 08:33:26 PM
JvR scores!  2-1 Leafs.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Downtown Connor Brown on December 12, 2017, 08:33:30 PM
JVR, tip and boom!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 08:33:52 PM
Hey.  A play of power.  How does that work again?

OH
LIKE
THAT
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 08:40:00 PM
JVR has gotten like zero votes m/l in the MotM all year.  That's pretty darned unfair. ( I'm as bad as anybody. )
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 08:52:32 PM
Ohh.  Zarley Zalapsky.... jeez.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 08:54:17 PM
What is up, fellow forumites?

I am eating a cherry/chocolate chip ice cream, and relishing in the sens being down 3-0 to the Sabres.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: bustaheims on December 12, 2017, 08:54:47 PM
What is up, fellow forumites?

I am eating a cherry/chocolate chip ice cream, and relishing in the sens being down 3-0 to the Sabres.

That Pouliot goal was something . . .
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 08:56:44 PM
JVR has gotten like zero votes m/l in the MotM all year.  That's pretty darned unfair. ( I'm as bad as anybody. )

His game seems to be poorly equipped for MoM.  He’s bad defensively and he doesn’t really create a lot of offence despite being incredibly elite at scoring in tight.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 09:00:07 PM
His game seems to be poorly equipped for MoM.  He’s bad defensively and he doesn’t really create a lot of offence despite being incredibly elite at scoring in tight.

THat's just it, a huge chunk of his value comes from scoring and he's really only got one game this year where he was clearcut most valuable Leaf on the scoreboard.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 09:01:26 PM
What is up, fellow forumites?

I am eating a cherry/chocolate chip ice cream, and relishing in the sens being down 3-0 to the Sabres.

That Pouliot goal was something . . .

Given his play lately, any Pouliot goal is something.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on December 12, 2017, 09:04:44 PM
Poop. Game tied at 2.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 09:04:54 PM
This wouldn't've happened if we had just drafted him.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 09:05:09 PM
Bleah.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:07:05 PM
Polak's here to kill penalties and clear creases. So far tonight he's taken Toronto's only penalty and allowed the guy he was battling with in the crease to tip in a puck.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:09:18 PM
Polak's here to kill penalties and clear creases. So far tonight he's taken Toronto's only penalty and allowed the guy he was battling with in the crease to tip in a puck.

According to some you're not allowed to do that in this new NHL.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:10:30 PM
Broken record I know wins are wins but can't keep playing like this.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 09:15:38 PM
Broken record I know wins are wins but can't keep playing like this.

As was mentioned somewhere else today Babcock wants them to play like this, dump and chase, defend in tight games, keep most shots to the outside.  But the success we've had lately is largely due to Andersen nonetheless.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Rob on December 12, 2017, 09:17:19 PM
Are these those same Flyers that lost ten straight games?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Bender on December 12, 2017, 09:18:33 PM
And yet again we look like a terrible team.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:18:52 PM
Broken record I know wins are wins but can't keep playing like this.

As was mentioned somewhere else today Babcock wants them to play like this, dump and chase, defend in tight games, keep most shots to the outside.  But the success we've had lately is largely due to Andersen nonetheless.

Totally but will come back to even up. Eventually going to catch up to us.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:21:47 PM
Broken record I know wins are wins but can't keep playing like this.

As was mentioned somewhere else today Babcock wants them to play like this, dump and chase, defend in tight games, keep most shots to the outside.  But the success we've had lately is largely due to Andersen nonetheless.

Totally but will come back to even up. Eventually going to catch up to us.

I'll be the first to admit would love to see the team tighten up defensively. Been preaching that for years. I understand getting outshot and yes they are giving up less quality chances but it's almost like we've turned off the offence button. Spurts here and there of what they are capable of doing.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 09:23:53 PM
Every time we've sustained heavy DZ pressure this period, it's with Polak on the ice.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:25:59 PM
Bozak line is pathetic. Neither one of them guys will take the body. Take the guy out ffs. Not hard to ride a guy into the boards. Stop his progress. Let them skate around with the puck. Lucky Provorov didn't score there.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on December 12, 2017, 09:26:40 PM
There goes the point!  3-2 Flyers!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: bustaheims on December 12, 2017, 09:27:21 PM
Flyers have been the better team. They deserve this one.

Also, the second the announcers mentioned that Leafs haven't lost when leading after two and the Flyers hadn't won when trailing after two, we all knew how this was going to turn out.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:28:25 PM
I would have been very happy with a single point here. Darn.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 09:29:14 PM
Really nice by Giroux and Couturier.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:29:40 PM
I'm getting tired of the team getting outplayed game after game and the coach not doing anything to change things up.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: barney_rebel on December 12, 2017, 09:30:42 PM
We stink dudes


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:31:30 PM
Last minute of play down a goal....and Nylander is on the bench.  Babcock needs to get his head out of his rear end
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on December 12, 2017, 09:31:38 PM
We suck!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 09:32:09 PM
Giroux what a pass.

Well, they blew a lead going into the 3rd for the 1st time.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:32:14 PM
Well deserved loss.  Time to keep Polak in the lineup.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: bustaheims on December 12, 2017, 09:32:33 PM
I get that Babcock is trying to get this team to play better defensively, but, I mean, the way he's trying - despite the wins - it's not working. They're getting badly outplayed, and struggling to generate offence. He needs to find another strategy.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 09:33:00 PM
Last minute of play down a goal....and Nylander is on the bench.  Babcock needs to get his head out of his rear end

I agree 100%.  That's just insulting to Nylander.  Absolutely ridiculous and somebody in the media needs to call him out on it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on December 12, 2017, 09:33:10 PM
Watching the team play like a Randy Carlyle team more and more recently.

As the lineup has gotten more talented they've moved towards a less offensive system.

I'm not sure it's good enough to just call it teaching experience anymore, because they clearly aren't getting it.

I understand Babcock wants to teach them to be able to play this way, but he's asking thoroughbreds to plough the fields.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 12, 2017, 09:34:00 PM
Womp womp
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:35:28 PM
Last minute of play down a goal....and Nylander is on the bench.  Babcock needs to get his head out of his rear end

I agree 100%.  That's just insulting to Nylander.  Absolutely ridiculous and somebody in the media needs to call him out on it.

So who else thinks that Nylander is probably going back to the 4th line because he lost the puck there on the empty netter?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Downtown Connor Brown on December 12, 2017, 09:35:49 PM
Very well deserved loss. I miss Auston [emoji24]
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:36:37 PM
Last minute of play down a goal....and Nylander is on the bench.  Babcock needs to get his head out of his rear end

I agree 100%.  That's just insulting to Nylander.  Absolutely ridiculous and somebody in the media needs to call him out on it.

So who else thinks that Nylander is probably going back to the 4th line because he lost the puck there on the empty netter?

Pretty much me.  I think Babcock is doing some kind of stupid "you learn by punishment" routine with him.  I think it's a load of crap to be honest.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:36:49 PM
I understand Babcock wants to teach them to be able to play this way, but he's asking thoroughbreds to plough the fields.

He's asking snowmobiles to heat the house.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:37:13 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:38:09 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 09:40:44 PM
Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

To be fair Couturier is only 6'3 and 215lbs. Guys like that just float away.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on December 12, 2017, 09:46:06 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Exactly, I don't think he realizes that the version of the game he's thinking about doesn't exist anymore.

Polak consistently gets penalized because he wants to play the old school gritty version of the game which involves being violent with your stick, cross-checking, boarding and slashing were all the norm and now the refs call those almost everytime.

The game has moved on, it's largely about speed, body position and ability to stick check.

I wouldn't mind the Leafs forwards leaving more of the body on opposition dmen when they have less than a 50% chance in a puck battle, but again I realize part of why they don't is because they are being told to constantly get in position to press the puck.

It's the same as the Geggenpress principle in soccer, you press as an entire team and don't overcommit unless you know the odds are in your favour.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:48:55 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Try moving him something you're telling me you can't move a guy off a puck. At least if one of him is trying that the other guy might be able to steal it. Watching 3 of them fishing for it worked real well there. Have you ever played the game? I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake. Team has too many offensive, gifted players. Fine and dandy but you need a bit of nastiness to go along with it. Polak, Martin and Kadri at time may show that but none of them strike fear in anyone. Rest of the team forget it.How many times you see some of them get rid of the puck when they see an opposing player coming at them. Give up possession cuz your scared to take a hit.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:49:57 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Exactly, I don't think he realizes that the version of the game he's thinking about doesn't exist anymore.

Polak consistently gets penalized because he wants to play the old school gritty version of the game which involves being violent with your stick, cross-checking, boarding and slashing were all the norm and now the refs call those almost everytime.

The game has moved on, it's largely about speed, body position and ability to stick check.

I wouldn't mind the Leafs forwards leaving more of the body on opposition dmen when they have less than a 50% chance in a puck battle, but again I realize part of why they don't is because they are being told to constantly get in position to press the puck.

It's the same as the Geggenpress principle in soccer, you press as an entire team and don't overcommit unless you know the odds are in your favour.

Noone is going to disagree that Bozak is bad at winning puck battles along the boards either (I assume?).  But the reality is that the handful of guys who are marginally better at it (Hyman, maybe Komarov) aren't really guys you want out there in the final minute.  That Nylander wasn't out there until the final 30 seconds was bad bench management from Babcock.  That the team is playing a dump and chase game with a team that isn't that great at puck retrieval is just insanity for me.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:52:33 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Try moving him something you're telling me you can't move a guy off a puck. At least if one of him is trying that the other guy might be able to steal it. Watching 3 of them fishing for it worked real well there. Have you ever played the game? I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake. Team has too many offensive, gifted players. Fine and dandy but you need a bit of nastiness to go along with it. Polak, Martin and Kadri at time may show that but none of them strike fear in anyone. Rest of the team forget it.How many times you see some of them get rid of the puck when they see an opposing player coming at them. Give up possession cuz your scared to take a hit.

If you want to play the "have you ever played the game" nonsense, we are done.  Yes, I have played and continue to play. 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:53:14 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Exactly, I don't think he realizes that the version of the game he's thinking about doesn't exist anymore.

Polak consistently gets penalized because he wants to play the old school gritty version of the game which involves being violent with your stick, cross-checking, boarding and slashing were all the norm and now the refs call those almost everytime.

The game has moved on, it's largely about speed, body position and ability to stick check.

I wouldn't mind the Leafs forwards leaving more of the body on opposition dmen when they have less than a 50% chance in a puck battle, but again I realize part of why they don't is because they are being told to constantly get in position to press the puck.

It's the same as the Geggenpress principle in soccer, you press as an entire team and don't overcommit unless you know the odds are in your favour.

Quit telling me the version of this hockey doesn't exist anymore. Tired of some of you telling me that. They haven't gotten rid of hitting altogether. Although I'm sure some of you would love to see that. Someone commented earlier about Polak not doing his job clearing the front of the net on the second Flyer goal. I brought that up the other day and was told you can't do that anymore. BS. You can still get positioning on a guy and try and move him out. Sh*t if they can't do that they might as well play 3 on 3 and take the defenseman right out of the game which again I'm sure a lot of you would love to see that.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 09:54:48 PM
I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake.

This just in, NHL players are harder to knock off the puck than beer leaguers.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:54:53 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Exactly, I don't think he realizes that the version of the game he's thinking about doesn't exist anymore.

Polak consistently gets penalized because he wants to play the old school gritty version of the game which involves being violent with your stick, cross-checking, boarding and slashing were all the norm and now the refs call those almost everytime.

The game has moved on, it's largely about speed, body position and ability to stick check.

I wouldn't mind the Leafs forwards leaving more of the body on opposition dmen when they have less than a 50% chance in a puck battle, but again I realize part of why they don't is because they are being told to constantly get in position to press the puck.

It's the same as the Geggenpress principle in soccer, you press as an entire team and don't overcommit unless you know the odds are in your favour.

Quit telling me the version of this hockey doesn't exist anymore. Tired of some of you telling me that. They haven't gotten rid of hitting altogether. Although I'm sure some of you would love to see that. Someone commented earlier about Polak not doing his job clearing the front of the net on the second Flyer goal. I brought that up the other day and was told you can't do that anymore. BS. You can still get positioning on a guy and try and move him out. Sh*t if they can't do that they might as well play 3 on 3 and take the defenseman right out of the game which again I'm sure a lot of you would love to see that.

You aren't getting it.  People aren't telling Polak to clear the net like that.  They are saying you can't do that so boasting about Polak's ability to do something you can't do anymore (as evidenced by his penalty in the Edmonton game) isn't proving that he has a valuable attribute.  He has a skill that is useless in the NHL in 2017.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:55:24 PM
Someone commented earlier about Polak not doing his job clearing the front of the net on the second Flyer goal. I brought that up the other day and was told you can't do that anymore. BS. You can still get positioning on a guy and try and move him out.

Bringing up a play where a goal was scored while a player was attempting to clear the front of the net is a strange way to say players should still clear the front of the net.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 09:57:25 PM
Team has no grit don't care how many of you on here disagree with me but till they get some teams not going anywhere. Can't have 90% of a team that only think offence, won't take the body, willing to sacrifice taking a hit to get the puck. utterly disgraceful. U have your goalie out and watch 3 of them trying to fish the puck out of Couturier's skate wasting 30 seconds. Bozak, Marner and whoever the 3rd tit was. Knock the guy off the puck. Pathetic to say the least. But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Your understanding of how easy it is to "knock the guy off the puck" in the middle of a scrum is astounding.

Exactly, I don't think he realizes that the version of the game he's thinking about doesn't exist anymore.

Polak consistently gets penalized because he wants to play the old school gritty version of the game which involves being violent with your stick, cross-checking, boarding and slashing were all the norm and now the refs call those almost everytime.

The game has moved on, it's largely about speed, body position and ability to stick check.

I wouldn't mind the Leafs forwards leaving more of the body on opposition dmen when they have less than a 50% chance in a puck battle, but again I realize part of why they don't is because they are being told to constantly get in position to press the puck.

It's the same as the Geggenpress principle in soccer, you press as an entire team and don't overcommit unless you know the odds are in your favour.

I agree to some of your points. Polak yes the guy plays hard but he also plays stupid. I'm not saying you have to board, cross check etc for sure you're just asking for trouble. Clearing the front of the net they all have to do a better job of that. problem is we don't have any big physical defenseman that can do it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 09:58:44 PM
I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake.

This just in, NHL players are harder to knock off the puck than beer leaguers.

I would like to point out that in my last game I was on the ice for 7 minutes straight because our team was decimated by people having to work.  Clearly Babcock should be employing this strategy in the NHL because if I can play 7 minutes straight in my beer league everyone should be doing it at the NHL level.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 09:59:23 PM
I would like to point out that in my last game I was on the ice for 7 minutes straight because our team was decimated by people having to work.  Clearly Babcock should be employing this strategy in the NHL because if I can play 7 minutes straight in my beer league everyone should be doing it at the NHL level.

Shhhhhhhhhhh he might legit do this with Hainsey shhhhhhh
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on December 12, 2017, 10:01:00 PM
I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake.

This just in, NHL players are harder to knock off the puck than beer leaguers.

So why is it any different? Don't matter what league you're in. It's men against men. No different than bantams knocking down bantams or junior players on junior players.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: L K on December 12, 2017, 10:04:18 PM
I've seen guys knocked off the puck in beer league for gods sake.

This just in, NHL players are harder to knock off the puck than beer leaguers.

So why is it any different? Don't matter what league you're in. It's men against men. No different than bantams knocking down bantams or junior players on junior players.

And this is where we have the discussion of core strength, balance and what you are legally allowed to do to leverage yourself over an opponent.  The reason you can easily knock guys off the puck along the boards in a beer league is because half of everyone on the ice had 5 beers before they played and half the time they fall down skating in open ice.  They don't have good core strength or the ability to balance themselves on the ice.

Junior players are better at it but haven't established that skill.   

NHL players on the other hand actually know how to stay on their skates.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 12, 2017, 10:07:38 PM
So why is it any different? Don't matter what league you're in. It's men against men. No different than bantams knocking down bantams or junior players on junior players.

Because when god invented the universe he decided to make it work by way of the laws of physics? Not sure what to tell you here.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Strangelove on December 12, 2017, 11:31:14 PM
So the contrast between this team and the team we watched for the first 10 games of the year is pretty startling. They have a really hard time generating speed and any kind of flow, seemingly because they are always focused on their latest assignment/match up.

Babcock has to realize that he is over-coaching, step back, and let them focus on sustaining speed and offence, which should be their bread and butter.

He also has to stop being so egalitarian with ice time and let his best players play.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 12, 2017, 11:49:19 PM
The good news is that the Leafs have banked a lot of points (regardless of if they earned them or not) and our division is absolute garbage. There's almost no way that they fall out of the 2-3 slots in the Atlantic, which is really the ideal place to be given the set-up. So they do have time to figure all of this out.

Step one should be making sure Matthews is 117% healthy. He shouldn't play another game until that happens.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 12, 2017, 11:58:14 PM
I understand Babcock wants to teach them to be able to play this way, but he's asking thoroughbreds to plough the fields.

He's asking snowmobiles to heat the house.

That's very well put.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: wnc096 on December 13, 2017, 01:21:20 AM
But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Dude what exactly are your expectations?  They are on pace for 105 points. 

The Leafs were playing their third game in 4 nights...missing their best player...on the road...against team that had been off for 5 days.   I think you need to relax
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Zee on December 13, 2017, 08:45:19 AM
I mean, yeah they lost, but 3 games in 4 nights is bound to catch up to any team.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Strangelove on December 13, 2017, 09:49:20 AM
I mean, yeah they lost, but 3 games in 4 nights is bound to catch up to any team.

The issue, I think, is that the team didn't really look any different last night than they have for the past 10-15 games or so. They just weren't as lucky as they've been.

In other words, the issues are systemic and not related to fatigue.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on December 13, 2017, 10:08:54 AM
I mean, yeah they lost, but 3 games in 4 nights is bound to catch up to any team.

The issue, I think, is that the team didn't really look any different last night than they have for the past 10-15 games or so. They just weren't as lucky as they've been.

In other words, the issues are systemic and not related to fatigue.

I think part of the possession lag is due to missing a 100% Matthews.  You look at the early games and his possession stats and they were off the charts.  Then he got hurt, and he wasn't the same.  He has a big impact on the Leafs ability to control the flow of the game.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on December 13, 2017, 11:32:24 AM
Jeff Veillette on twitter has a decent look at the Leafs analytics on his twitter this morning.

He has arrived at the same conclusion as many here, Babcock's attempt to impose a dump and chase style on the team is neutering what actually makes them a good team/allowed them to have success and dominate early in the year.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Strangelove on December 13, 2017, 11:42:28 AM
Jeff Veillette on twitter has a decent look at the Leafs analytics on his twitter this morning.

He has arrived at the same conclusion as many here, Babcock's attempt to impose a dump and chase style on the team is neutering what actually makes them a good team/allowed them to have success and dominate early in the year.

Yep. The Leafs' transition game and neutral zone possession is non-existent right now, and it seems to be by design.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Bender on December 13, 2017, 02:13:17 PM
But the way they sit back and let teams come at them bound to bite them in the ass on some nights .Almost doubled up on shots again. Great job Mike. Idiot.

Dude what exactly are your expectations?  They are on pace for 105 points. 

The Leafs were playing their third game in 4 nights...missing their best player...on the road...against team that had been off for 5 days.   I think you need to relax

I agree with most of that as Azzuri flies off the handle during any loss. But I think they've been very lucky to get the wins they've been getting, riding high on good goaltending. If the goaltending comes back down to earth it will not be pretty. If at any point is was just slightly below average I think we'd be barely clinging to a playoff spot. The other aspects of their game are getting bailed out by good goaltending.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: Nik the Trik on December 13, 2017, 02:43:08 PM
I agree with most of that as Azzuri flies off the handle during any loss. But I think they've been very lucky to get the wins they've been getting, riding high on good goaltending. If the goaltending comes back down to earth it will not be pretty. If at any point is was just slightly below average I think we'd be barely clinging to a playoff spot. The other aspects of their game are getting bailed out by good goaltending.

But you know I always feel that one of the thing that really plagues fan criticism is a lack of context or comparison. The best teams in the league are still only going to win 50 or so out of 80 games. They do that by virtue of generally winning when they're on their game(while still being vulnerable to a hot goalie) but also being able to squeak out points when they're off their game because of good goaltending or luck or whatever. No team is great for the whole season, all teams hit rough patches.

So right now the Leafs are in a bit of a rough patch but they're still figuring out ways to earn points most nights. That's what a good team does. Yes, if the goaltending gets worse and nothing else improves that would be cause for concern long term but that's sort of a cross the bridge when you get there thing.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Flyers - Dec. 12th, 7:00pm - TSN4, Fan 590
Post by: herman on December 13, 2017, 03:05:43 PM
It's also mid-December games, just get to the stretch run healthy.

Also stealth nerf Nylander and Marner so their $alary cap hits are suppressed.