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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Media Rumours => General Rumours & Speculation => Topic started by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 09:33:30 AM

Title: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 09:33:30 AM
Avs Fire Sale!

Rebuild kickoff for the Islanders! Snow Could Melt on the Hot Seat!

Rookie GM Chayka Wants to Make a Splash in the Desert!

Duck Hunting for D!

Can the Leafs solidify their top 4 and get that needed RHD?

THE 2017 TRADE DEADLINE WATCH IS UPON US!
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Bates on January 18, 2017, 09:55:47 AM
Add Stone from AZ for a pick.  He has not rebounded perfectly from an injury last year and we would have a couple months to evaluate whether he is worth trying to keep next year.  He looked good a top 4 D last season before injury. Low risk audition.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 09:58:58 AM
I think an interesting prospect is that if you can trade JVR for the type of young RHD they're looking for you can then trade Polak to maybe make up for some of the prospect/picks(albeit not to the same extent) you could have got simply by selling off JVR.

That's not exactly how I'd play it, I still think JVR should be moved for picks/prospects but if you swap Bozak too I think the Leafs could probably accomplish both a shifting of the line-up for this year without necessarily making it worse while also adding pieces needed to rebuild the prospect base.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Mr. Leaf on January 18, 2017, 10:00:53 AM
For the first time in a long time, I'm not expecting the Leafs to be very busy on deadline day.  They don't have the usual glut of veterans to unload, and they aren't exactly in buy mode either.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: digdug on January 18, 2017, 10:31:05 AM
For the first time in a long time, I'm not expecting the Leafs to be very busy on deadline day.  They don't have the usual glut of veterans to unload, and they aren't exactly in buy mode either.

This


I basically expect the Leafs to go with what they have.

No trade deadline deals at all.

But of course I could be wrong  :)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Can8899 on January 18, 2017, 10:42:57 AM
For the first time in a long time, I'm not expecting the Leafs to be very busy on deadline day.  They don't have the usual glut of veterans to unload, and they aren't exactly in buy mode either.

This


I basically expect the Leafs to go with what they have.

No trade deadline deals at all.

But of course I could be wrong  :)

Any interest in Michalek or Laich across the league do you think?  Or has that ship sailed?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
I don't see the Leafs making many moves, but I don't see them shying away from something that gives them an opportunity to shore up the top 4, either.

I remember when Nonis stood pat...
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 11:07:47 AM

Admittedly it's still 6 or so weeks out and a lot can change in the standings between now and then but I think it'd be a real mistake by the Leafs to not make some hay out of Polak/Hunwick while they can, especially when they have internal options to replace them.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 11:20:35 AM
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.

If they go, I can see a package along with 1 of Bozak or JVR and maybe a pick/prospect to shore up the current team's D.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Andy on January 18, 2017, 11:49:37 AM
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.


Wanting to keep JVR in lieu of a trade can be rationalized, I guess, but not wanting to trade Polak or Hunwick for picks because they're too valuable to this team for this season? I really don't get it.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 11:57:37 AM
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.


Wanting to keep JVR in lieu of a trade can be rationalized, I guess, but not wanting to trade Polak or Hunwick for picks because they're too valuable to this team for this season? I really don't get it.

Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own?  Right now this is a playoff team and Polak and Hunwick are a part of the chemistry that makes them so. That's more valuable than a 3rd to 5th rounder.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 18, 2017, 11:58:44 AM

Admittedly it's still 6 or so weeks out and a lot can change in the standings between now and then but I think it'd be a real mistake by the Leafs to not make some hay out of Polak/Hunwick while they can, especially when they have internal options to replace them.

If Rielly's out for awhile and Hunwick looks even half-decent it could go a long way to making him a somewhat valuable chip.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 12:00:21 PM
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own? 

For the record, yes. Both of them. Polak got two 2nd's a year ago and it's not like he's massively fallen off.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Andy on January 18, 2017, 12:06:21 PM
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own? 

For the record, yes. Both of them. Polak got two 2nd's a year ago and it's not like he's massively fallen off.

And even if a 3rd is the best they can get, I don' t see how they could possibly not make that deal.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Big Daddy on January 18, 2017, 12:17:05 PM
I'm hoping Shanahan calls "desperate to win now"  Florida and steals Ekblad away from them.  Would have never believed there to be a chance until Weber and Subban got traded.  So what would that take
Bozak Kapanen Nielson and our 1st 2017.  I would do it
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 12:18:33 PM

So a team that's desperate to win now will trade their best defenseman for a group consisting mainly of prospects and a draft pick?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Coco-puffs on January 18, 2017, 12:21:15 PM
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.


Wanting to keep JVR in lieu of a trade can be rationalized, I guess, but not wanting to trade Polak or Hunwick for picks because they're too valuable to this team for this season? I really don't get it.

Typically, you need 8 NHL defensemen (at least replacement level) for the playoff push and into the playoffs due to injuries being expected.  Usually, you have one or two in your farm system that could step in plus your 7th defenseman who on your roster.

At this point, other than maybe Valiev, our Marlies D are either too weak or too green (young) to rely on.  They are below NHL replacement level.  If you move either one of Polak, Hunwick, or both, you are down to either 6 or 7 NHL defensemen, one who's played 1 game to this point in the season, and you are really hoping for good luck when it comes to injuries

The above is based on the premise you are actually trying to compete for a playoff spot.  For some in Leafs nation the playoffs shouldn't even be a goal this year and getting as many future assets as possible is more important.  I personally disagree with that, but to each their own.  Of course, it all depends on the return.  If these two garner 4th round picks I don't think its worth hurting the chance of making the playoffs.  I think even just one round of playoff experience for this young group will be extremely helpful to their development. 

Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on January 18, 2017, 12:27:57 PM

Admittedly it's still 6 or so weeks out and a lot can change in the standings between now and then but I think it'd be a real mistake by the Leafs to not make some hay out of Polak/Hunwick while they can, especially when they have internal options to replace them.

If Rielly's out for awhile and Hunwick looks even half-decent it could go a long way to making him a somewhat valuable chip.

Just send out that clip of Hunwick diving nearly head first on the puck in the last seconds at the net-side of last night's one-goal game and there'll be at least 6 playoff teams calling to inquire with 3rd or up picks.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on January 18, 2017, 12:58:05 PM
I'd like to see TO acquire Columbus's 2018 1st rounder for a vet to boost their playoff drive.  I expect them to fall back to earth next year, giving the chance for that first to be pretty high.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on January 18, 2017, 01:03:24 PM
I'm hoping Shanahan calls "desperate to win now"  Florida and steals Ekblad away from them.  Would have never believed there to be a chance until Weber and Subban got traded.  So what would that take
Bozak Kapanen Nielson and our 1st 2017.  I would do it

Two flaws I see here.
1) Shanahan isn't the GM
2) They're not trading Ekblad.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: louisstamos on January 18, 2017, 01:26:30 PM
The above is based on the premise you are actually trying to compete for a playoff spot.  For some in Leafs nation the playoffs shouldn't even be a goal this year and getting as many future assets as possible is more important.  I personally disagree with that, but to each their own.  Of course, it all depends on the return.  If these two garner 4th round picks I don't think its worth hurting the chance of making the playoffs.  I think even just one round of playoff experience for this young group will be extremely helpful to their development.

The thing is, the goal this year was to let the kids play, see how they do, and build around that.  Barring a few boldest of the bold predictors, I don't think any of us thought that the likes of Matthews and Marner would be *this* good out of the gate at 19.  If the team is competing for a playoff spot, like Nik said in another thread, I think you just roll back the idea of trading valuable players that still have some term (Bozak, JVR).

My thing in the Armchair GM thread was, if you trade Polak and Hunwick at the deadline because you don't want lose them for absolutely nothing as UFAs (one of them bound to be replaced by Marincin), then maybe you take those same assets and bring in a guy who could be an improvement for a #5 or #6 guy.  My only thing is this isn't the year you go for broke.  The team is VERY good, and now I'm starting to feel like they could potentially even win a playoff round or two, but there's still too many holes in the lineup to be considered a true contender that you can plug at the deadline.

Basically, we're not at the point where you're trading 1st round picks and top prospects for veteran help at the deadline.  We're closer to that than I originally thought - depending on how the off-season goes, that could be as early as next year.  But for now - go with the young horses that brought you to the race in the first place, and see how they fare in a playoff battle.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 01:27:00 PM
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own? 

For the record, yes. Both of them. Polak got two 2nd's a year ago and it's not like he's massively fallen off.

Not Polak by himself.  Spaling went in the deal too and we had to take back Torres (which we could afford). Its also a very late 2nd, nearly 3rd last summer and probably will be again next Summer.

But as of right now (we'll see how the next few weeks shakes out), the Leafs aren't sellers. With just 47 contracts currently and well under cap, they're equipped to be buyers.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 01:31:04 PM
But as of right now (we'll see how the next few weeks shakes out), the Leafs aren't sellers. With just 47 contracts currently and well under cap, they're equipped to be buyers.

I think we need to move on from the binary concept of buyers and sellers. I think smart teams should move on from contracts(and add to a prospect base) they can afford to shed regardless of where they are in the standings if they can replace them with no real downside and likewise teams near the bottom should still be looking to make good long term moves by bringing players on board if it's possible.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 01:56:08 PM
But as of right now (we'll see how the next few weeks shakes out), the Leafs aren't sellers. With just 47 contracts currently and well under cap, they're equipped to be buyers.

I think we need to move on from the binary concept of buyers and sellers. I think smart teams should move on from contracts(and add to a prospect base) they can afford to shed regardless of where they are in the standings if they can replace them with no real downside and likewise teams near the bottom should still be looking to make good long term moves by bringing players on board if it's possible.

I hear ya and its an interesting concept. But a winning mix for a team at the deadline, comfortably in a playoff spot generally won't disturb that mix through the trading of roster players for futures during that season.  They look for the piece to push that team over the top.

That's why the UFA market remains strong in the summer.

Marincin and Corrado still need to prove they're capable of Hunlak's minutes in the NHL and if that proves to be the case in the coming weeks, then I'm on board with you about Polak and Hunwick.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 02:06:05 PM
I hear ya and its an interesting concept. But a winning mix for a team at the deadline, comfortably in a playoff spot generally won't disturb that mix through the trading of roster players for futures during that season.  They look for the piece to push that team over the top.

Maybe but a team that's "comfortably" in a playoff spot is effectively a legitimate cup contender. If a team would be out of a playoff spot because of a brief stumble you really shouldn't think of them in that same sense.

I still appreciate there will be teams thinking exclusively short-term right at the top and teams at the bottom who want to blow it up but for teams in the middle, which composes the vast majority of the league, thinking in those sorts of absolutes just doesn't make sense.



Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 02:15:25 PM
I hear ya and its an interesting concept. But a winning mix for a team at the deadline, comfortably in a playoff spot generally won't disturb that mix through the trading of roster players for futures during that season.  They look for the piece to push that team over the top.

Maybe but a team that's "comfortably" in a playoff spot is effectively a legitimate cup contender. If a team would be out of a playoff spot because of a brief stumble you really shouldn't think of them in that same sense.

I still appreciate there will be teams thinking exclusively short-term right at the top and teams at the bottom who want to blow it up but for teams in the middle, which composes the vast majority of the league, thinking in those sorts of absolutes just doesn't make sense.

That's why I said I want to see how the next few games shake out for the Leafs.  They could very well be exiting the "mushy middle".

And I generally agree that the mushy middle aren't legit contenders. Do you just consider each division leader a contender, or does it go beyond that?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 02:22:40 PM
That's why I said I want to see how the next few games shake out for the Leafs.  They could very well be exiting the "mushy middle".

And I generally agree that the mushy middle aren't legit contenders. Do you just consider each division leader a contender, or does it go beyond that?

Well, there are some pretty weak divisions so no. Right now none of Chicago, Pittsburgh and Washington are leading their divisions but all of them are legitimately in the mix for a title. I'm having questions about NYR right now but I'd take Pittsburgh and Washington in a 7 game series over Montreal.

I don't know if there's a single solitary metric I'd use to say whether someone has separated themselves from the pack but I would say, and this is what I think about the Leafs right now, that if you really need to wait and see how a few games play out they're probably not there. The Blackhawks or Penguins could lose their next five games by a combined score of 25-0 and I think we'd all know they were still of a certain quality.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 02:46:54 PM

Well, there are some pretty weak divisions so no. Right now none of Chicago, Pittsburgh and Washington are leading their divisions but all of them are legitimately in the mix for a title. I'm having questions about NYR right now but I'd take Pittsburgh and Washington in a 7 game series over Montreal.

I don't know if there's a single solitary metric I'd use to say whether someone has separated themselves from the pack but I would say, and this is what I think about the Leafs right now, that if you really need to wait and see how a few games play out they're probably not there. The Blackhawks or Penguins could lose their next five games by a combined score of 25-0 and I think we'd all know they were still of a certain quality.

Yeah, I think that has to do with the this version of the Leafs not being time tested and battle hardened. Just too early to tell. But in a few games of the second half, if they look like are in a good position to pin down home ice advantage, rather than fight for a post-season spot, it becomes a lot less muddied, agreed?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 02:53:30 PM
Yeah, I think that has to do with the this version of the Leafs not being time tested and battle hardened. Just too early to tell. But in a few games of the second half, if they look like are in a good position to pin down home ice advantage, rather than fight for a post-season spot, it becomes a lot less muddied, agreed?

Well no because like I said I don't think teams should think in binary terms. There is no good reason, regardless of where the Leafs are in the standings, to not take advantage of the opportunities that expiring contracts present or to seriously flirt with losing JVR for nothing in a year.

So along those lines, even if the Leafs win their next 7 games or whatever if you still are of the opinion that trading Hunwick or Polak would seriously damage what they're capable of accomplishing I'd say you're effectively making the argument that the Leafs aren't good enough to be thinking short term.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on January 18, 2017, 03:12:15 PM
As Lou said a little while ago, where they are in the standings isn't really going to have an impact on the way they operate. They have a plan, and they'll be sticking to it. So, I think we can pretty safely rule out any major additions that require paying trade deadline type prices. Polak and Hunwick are almost certainly going to be considered available - pending Rielly's health. I think they'll be looking for a quality, cheap 6/7 defenceman for cheap - like, if they move Polak for a 3rd, they try pick up a vet 6/7 for dman for a 5th. It won't have much impact on their overall ability, but it's an upgrade to future assets.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 03:13:56 PM

Well no because like I said I don't think teams should think in binary terms. There is no good reason, regardless of where the Leafs are in the standings, to not take advantage of the opportunities that expiring contracts present or to seriously flirt with losing JVR for nothing in a year.

So along those lines, even if the Leafs win their next 7 games or whatever if you still are of the opinion that trading Hunwick or Polak would seriously damage what they're capable of accomplishing I'd say you're effectively making the argument that the Leafs aren't good enough to be thinking short term.

I gather that's because you're against the idea, in general of ever having to lose a player (via UFA) without getting some sort of asset back in return.

Problem is, Polak/Hunwick, even JVR aren't rebuilding pieces.  They're pieces for bubble/contending teams to improve either D depth or scoring help up front short term.  Just as they can help the Leafs with their playoff campaign.

Plus, we're already the youngest team in the NHL. How much younger do you want this team, this season to get?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 03:26:03 PM
I gather that's because you're against the idea, in general of ever having to lose a player (via UFA) without getting some sort of asset back in return.

In general, sure. If you can get a 2nd round pick for someone I think you should, if you can get what JVR would fetch and choose not to you should be locked up.

Problem is, Polak/Hunwick, even JVR aren't rebuilding pieces.  They're pieces for bubble/contending teams to improve either D depth or scoring help up front short term.  Just as they can help the Leafs with their playoff campaign.

I don't see why that constitutes a problem. They're valuable pieces, they won't be here long-term...turn 'em into something.

Plus, we're already the youngest team in the NHL. How much younger do you want this team, this season to get?

That doesn't really play into it for me. Like Busta said, you can pick up guys as old as JVR or Hunlak or even older on the cheap to fill out the roster and still add the assets they'd fetch.

I'd like to see Leipsic called up in the second half but that's not a question of making the team younger, it's because I think he's earned it and would make the team better.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on January 18, 2017, 03:43:53 PM
Nik, are you a descendant of Sisyphus?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 03:48:34 PM
Nik, are you a descendant of Sisyphus?

In my better days I like to think Prometheus. This is just the liver-eating part of the story.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on January 18, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
In my better days I like to think Prometheus. This is just the liver-eating part of the story.

I hear that thing grows back.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on January 18, 2017, 04:04:12 PM

In general, sure. If you can get a 2nd round pick for someone I think you should, if you can get what JVR would fetch and choose not to you should be locked up.


So what in your mind does JVR fetch?

I don't see why that constitutes a problem. They're valuable pieces, they won't be here long-term...turn 'em into something.


In an ideal world yeah, agreed.

That doesn't really play into it for me. Like Busta said, you can pick up guys as old as JVR or Hunlak or even older on the cheap to fill out the roster and still add the assets they'd fetch.

I'd like to see Leipsic called up in the second half but that's not a question of making the team younger, it's because I think he's earned it and would make the team better.

Possibly, but I'd like to see him and Kap lead the Marlies to at least a winning record before we're ready to say they are definite upgrades over any of our current top nine wingers.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 18, 2017, 04:18:55 PM
So what in your mind does JVR fetch?

If you go the prospects/picks route? My guess is at least a 1st and a legitimately first rate prospect. Herman floated the Sanheim/Philly's 1st idea and I think that's about right.

Possibly, but I'd like to see him and Kap lead the Marlies to at least a winning record before we're ready to say they are definite upgrades over any of our current top nine wingers.

A) I don't necessarily see the Marlies record as something Kapanen/Leipsic have to answer for. The Marlies aren't very good, that's not on them.

B) Again, in my ideal world they're dealing JVR so there's a spot open.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on January 18, 2017, 08:21:54 PM
I can't take credit for the Sanheim/1st idea. I merely posted the link.

But that's kind of the package I prefer in light of a dearth of 1/2 RD loose enough to move.

We might need to take back some salary in a JvR-deal, as playoff pushers are generally pretty tight against the cap. Usually they sell off other picks to clear space for themselves, but I think we're actually in good position to pick up short-term dump$ for future assets to plug some of the bench holes that'll open up.

C'mon Vancouver... a couple more lucky OT wins for a deeper false sense of security...
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on January 19, 2017, 10:45:01 AM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

I'm not sure but i like the idea of marner feeding nugent-hopkins and nylander with one of matthews or kadri.

I also don't mind the idea of nylander taking over at C after the deadline if they can't get a C back but I'm not sure who marner would play with in that case.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Highlander on January 19, 2017, 01:01:27 PM
Personally I think Nylander is going to be a better winger than Centre. I could be wrong on this.
Perhaps as he put some man's muscle on this frame as he grows.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on January 19, 2017, 02:07:26 PM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: LuncheonMeat on January 19, 2017, 06:47:56 PM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?

I think Bozak, Corrado and Laich would be good value for RNH. Make the call!!
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on January 20, 2017, 08:46:58 AM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?

yeah, I mean, looking at this a day later it doesnt look as good as I thought.  In defense my thought was that bozak is probably an upgrade right now for the oilers as a #3 C and hes cheaper and signed for shorter.  I guess it just depends on how much they have soured on nuge and what they think of both bozak and polak as players in regards to their needs.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on January 20, 2017, 09:46:03 AM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?

yeah, I mean, looking at this a day later it doesnt look as good as I thought.  In defense my thought was that bozak is probably an upgrade right now for the oilers as a #3 C and hes cheaper and signed for shorter.  I guess it just depends on how much they have soured on nuge and what they think of both bozak and polak as players in regards to their needs.

The other problem is that deals don't happen in a vacuum.  What the Leafs would be offering would have to be better than what 28 other teams would be offering, if they were in on the deal. 
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on January 20, 2017, 10:20:48 AM
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak.  I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had?  Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?

If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?

yeah, I mean, looking at this a day later it doesnt look as good as I thought.  In defense my thought was that bozak is probably an upgrade right now for the oilers as a #3 C and hes cheaper and signed for shorter.  I guess it just depends on how much they have soured on nuge and what they think of both bozak and polak as players in regards to their needs.

The other problem is that deals don't happen in a vacuum.  What the Leafs would be offering would have to be better than what 28 other teams would be offering, if they were in on the deal.

but how many of those 28 teams can take on that kind of salary...so maybe not 28 teams but I get your point.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 10:41:43 AM

Maybe just to flip it a little but right now if RNH were available for free would picking him up even be a good idea? He's more young-ish than he is young(he turns 24 in a few months) and he's not cheap. He's been productive to the tune of about 56 points per 82 games but there's nothing special about his possession numbers and his face-off numbers are pretty terrible.

He certainly wouldn't play over Matthews, is he even better than Kadri? And with Nylander hopefully moving into the middle eventually, is spending 6 million dollars on a guy who's probably a 2/3 guy on the depth chart even before you get to Nylander a good bet?

If the team were desperate down the middle, sure, but it's probably their strongest position.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2017, 10:50:31 AM

Maybe just to flip it a little but right now if RNH were available for free would picking him up even be a good idea? He's more young-ish than he is young(he turns 24 in a few months) and he's not cheap. He's been productive to the tune of about 56 points per 82 games but there's nothing special about his possession numbers and his face-off numbers are pretty terrible.

He certainly wouldn't play over Matthews, is he even better than Kadri? And with Nylander hopefully moving into the middle eventually, is spending 6 million dollars on a guy who's probably a 2/3 guy on the depth chart even before you get to Nylander a good bet?

If the team were desperate down the middle, sure, but it's probably their strongest position.

Yeah, I'm not really interested in acquiring higher dollar forwards right now until the Leafs figure out what they've got in their top 9.

I'm super interested in acquiring some strong defense prospects, or young up and coming current NHL d-men.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 11:00:50 AM
Yeah, I'm not really interested in acquiring higher dollar forwards right now until the Leafs figure out what they've got in their top 9.

I'm super interested in acquiring some strong defense prospects, or young up and coming current NHL d-men.

Yeah, I mean, I'd probably rate my list of Leafs' needs like this:

1) Top 4 defenseman/Top defensive prospects
2) Komarov upgrade/JVR replacement
3) 1B goaltender

If you're talking about expending legit assets, be it players picks or cap space, those three areas seem legitimately pressing to me.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 20, 2017, 11:04:18 AM
1) Sign Shattenkirk
2) Trade for Landeskog
3) Don't wait until late August to sign a back-up goalie in the summer

(admittedly, pretty pipe-dreamy)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 11:14:45 AM
1) Sign Shattenkirk
2) Trade for Landeskog
3) Don't wait until late August to sign a back-up goalie in the summer

(admittedly, pretty pipe-dreamy)

I am very excited to get the trade for Landeskog bandwagon going.

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Landeskog-Nylander-Kapanen
Leipsic-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Gauthier-Sosh

Dare to dream
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 20, 2017, 11:17:54 AM
I am very excited to get the trade for Landeskog bandwagon going.

Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Landeskog-Nylander-Kapanen
Leipsic-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Gauthier-Sosh

Dare to dream

Yeah, Landeskog would be an amazing get. Sakic is also definitely a GM who can probably be taken advantage of by Lou too.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2017, 11:25:56 AM
1) Sign Shattenkirk
2) Trade for Landeskog
3) Don't wait until late August to sign a back-up goalie in the summer

(admittedly, pretty pipe-dreamy)

I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.

Is Erik Johnson worth $6m a year forever?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 11:27:22 AM
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.

You may have missed my post yesterday but my idea was essentially that you deal JVR for picks/prospects and flip those picks/prospects for Landeskog.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2017, 11:42:51 AM
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.

You may have missed my post yesterday but my idea was essentially that you deal JVR for picks/prospects and flip those picks/prospects for Landeskog.

I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: LuncheonMeat on January 20, 2017, 11:48:56 AM
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.

You may have missed my post yesterday but my idea was essentially that you deal JVR for picks/prospects and flip those picks/prospects for Landeskog.

I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.

Unless they can sign Shattenkirk. I think JVR will fetch more in the off-season, especially if he can continue to play the way he has been. By then the Leafs should have a good handle on whether Shattenkirk is an option, and can make moves accordingly.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 12:10:30 PM
I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.

I understand where you're coming from on that but you would have to be realistic about what the return likely would be. JVR isn't Hall and Hall fetched Larsson.

You're probably talking about a mid-1st and a good D prospect.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2017, 12:23:04 PM
I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.

I understand where you're coming from on that but you would have to be realistic about what the return likely would be. JVR isn't Hall and Hall fetched Larsson.

You're probably talking about a mid-1st and a good D prospect.

I like to think I'm realistic, and I really don't want to put all my eggs in the Shattenkirk basket.

I think they're really going to need to do something here this summer with the bottom 3.  I can't imagine Polak and Hunwick are back next year, and as high as some are on Carrick, I'm not.

If they move out JVR and Bozak, I think that the offense of those 2 is replaceable within the current system, or at least close to it.  And as much as we may dislike Hunwick and Polak, the bottom 3 d-men are not replaceable with the farm bodies today.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 12:34:02 PM
I like to think I'm realistic, and I really don't want to put all my eggs in the Shattenkirk basket.

I think they're really going to need to do something here this summer with the bottom 3.  I can't imagine Polak and Hunwick are back next year, and as high as some are on Carrick, I'm not.

If they move out JVR and Bozak, I think that the offense of those 2 is replaceable within the current system, or at least close to it.  And as much as we may dislike Hunwick and Polak, the bottom 3 d-men are not replaceable with the farm bodies today.

Again, I hear everything you're saying I just think that the market for defensemen right now is such that trading JVR returns someone who isn't a gigantic upgrade on Carrick if you're going for a roster player or a prospect that might be a few years away.

When it comes to making deals or acquiring players like that I think the Leafs have more options than you think. Kapanen, this and next year's 1sts, two second round picks in each of the next two drafts. If, between now and next year, a good defenseman becomes available from a team for whatever reason I think the Leafs are situated reasonably well to make an offer.

The thing with JVR on the other hand is that if he is available, he might be the most valuable piece out there for a contender. So a team that might want to add him but not subtract a major part of their defense might over value him in terms of prospects/picks.

Now, fair to you if you'd say you'd rather use those prospects and picks to draft and develop defensemen but that isn't the immediate upgrade you seem to be in search of.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: iwas11in67 on January 20, 2017, 12:37:35 PM
I'd still like to pry Trouba from Winnipeg. Sounds like a summer deal to me though.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on January 20, 2017, 12:57:43 PM
Now, fair to you if you'd say you'd rather use those prospects and picks to draft and develop defensemen but that isn't the immediate upgrade you seem to be in search of.

In my best case scenario, if they can't make a deal with someone to get the d-men prospects, then they use the returns to acquire a couple of 20-23 year old solid top 4 prospects that can play limited minutes today.

Failing that, then yeah, draft a couple in the first round this year, and fill the holes with short deals on the UFA market this summer. 

Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 20, 2017, 01:05:13 PM
In my best case scenario, if they can't make a deal with someone to get the d-men prospects, then they use the returns to acquire a couple of 20-23 year old solid top 4 prospects that can play limited minutes today.

I guess what I don't see there is who out there is a really solid prospect in that age range that a team would move and that isn't already in the NHL. If you look at the 2012-2014 drafts I think you're hard pressed to find guys who qualify there.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Deebo on January 24, 2017, 08:16:08 PM
If Detriot decides to sell and they retain some salary.

What about Mike Green?

Right handed, playing 24 minutes a night, only 1 year left after this year. I'm not the best a reading possession stats, but they seem pretty good.

If the Wings would retain 2M, at 4M, he could be solid addition to the top 4.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on January 24, 2017, 09:00:04 PM
I'm not the best a reading possession stats, but they seem pretty good.

His possession stats this season are pretty average - a touch below 50% in Corsi and Fenwick. That does put him slightly above Detroit's overall numbers, so, that's encouraging. His scoring chances against, however, comes in a little worse than the Wings' average. So, probably not a huge boost to the defensive side of things, but he does seem like a good fit for the Leafs' style of play. If the Wings are willing to retain salary and aren't asking for much for him, he could be an interesting short-term add.

EDIT: That being said, if the Wings do decide to sell, I imagine they can get more for Green than the Leafs should be giving up.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on January 25, 2017, 07:29:36 AM

Yeah the thing with Green is I'd almost rather Detroit didn't retain salary and were willing to take a less attractive offer in order to get the salary off the books. The asset cost seems to be a much bigger problem than fitting him under the cap next year.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on January 31, 2017, 02:47:50 PM
One thought that's been bouncing around in my head is, I wonder if there's a way to take advantage of Minnesota.  They're gonna have to expose 2 defenders and lose 1.

Trading for 1 of their defenders doesn't do any good, but what if we traded for 2 of them and sent back Zaitsev?

Something like:

Dumba or Brodin + Spurgeon or Scandella

For

Zaitsev + <something to close out value>

This way, Minnesota doesn't lose a defender for nothing, and receive at least one top4 defender back.

Leafs, meanwhile, pickup a young top4 guy, plus a mid-aged top4 guy.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 31, 2017, 03:48:32 PM
One thought that's been bouncing around in my head is, I wonder if there's a way to take advantage of Minnesota.  They're gonna have to expose 2 defenders and lose 1.

Trading for 1 of their defenders doesn't do any good, but what if we traded for 2 of them and sent back Zaitsev?

Something like:

Dumba or Brodin + Spurgeon or Scandella

For

Zaitsev + <something to close out value>

This way, Minnesota doesn't lose a defender for nothing, and receive at least one top4 defender back.

Leafs, meanwhile, pickup a young top4 guy, plus a mid-aged top4 guy.

So, you want to solve Minnesota's problem by putting us in the same one?

Gardiner
Rielly
Dumba
Spurgeon
Marincin
Carrick

You can only protect three as far as I know and three is most likely given the forwards they'll have to try to protect.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on January 31, 2017, 04:00:44 PM
So, you want to solve Minnesota's problem by putting us in the same one?

Gardiner
Rielly
Dumba
Spurgeon
Marincin
Carrick

You can only protect three as far as I know and three is most likely given the forwards they'll have to try to protect.

Actually, we can protect 8 players (plus goalie) to ensure we don't lose anything that's part of the core.

Reilly, Gardiner, Dumba/Brodin, Spurgeon/Scandella, Kadri, Brown, JvR, one other player (likely Komarov)

Possibly exposed:
Bozak
Leivo
Rachel
Carrick
Marincin

I think it's worth it to lose one of those guys for what we could get.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on January 31, 2017, 04:05:10 PM
PS: the protection options are:

7F + 3D + 1G

Or

8 skaters + 1G


Edit: and ideally, you trade Bozak at the deadline to avoid losing him for nothing - he probably has the most value there...
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 31, 2017, 04:51:20 PM
PS: the protection options are:

7F + 3D + 1G

Or

8 skaters + 1G


Edit: and ideally, you trade Bozak at the deadline to avoid losing him for nothing - he probably has the most value there...

Option one allows you to protect 11 players versus only 9 with option two?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 31, 2017, 05:01:29 PM

Actually, we can protect 8 players (plus goalie) to ensure we don't lose anything that's part of the core.

Reilly, Gardiner, Dumba/Brodin, Spurgeon/Scandella, Kadri, Brown, JvR, one other player (likely Komarov)

Possibly exposed:
Bozak
Leivo
Rachel
Carrick
Marincin

I think it's worth it to lose one of those guys for what we could get.

So the cost becomes Zaitsev, plus something significant to even the value, plus whoever you lose in the expansion draft to get one extra top four defenseman from Minny.

I don't see them going the 8 skater route and if they do get another dman I think it'll be a depth guy to replace Hunlak/Corrado and join Marincin on the bottom pair.

EDIT: I played around with the cap friendly expansion tool and just can't see them exposing some of the guys that they would need to if they go the 8 skater route.

https://www.capfriendly.com/expansion-draft

Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on January 31, 2017, 07:28:11 PM
EDIT: I played around with the cap friendly expansion tool and just can't see them exposing some of the guys that they would need to if they go the 8 skater route.

Me neither. I don't imagine we'll see any significant additions until after the expansion draft.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on February 01, 2017, 10:09:51 AM
EDIT: I played around with the cap friendly expansion tool and just can't see them exposing some of the guys that they would need to if they go the 8 skater route.

Me neither. I don't imagine we'll see any significant additions until after the expansion draft.

Pretty much everyone agrees with this.

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/1/14346830/the-expansion-draft-is-a-giant-dampening-field-on-the-nhl-trade-market-toronto-maple-leafs

I'm expecting a contract extension of Ben Smith so we can meet the requirements, but losing Rychel or Marincin to Vegas.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on February 09, 2017, 10:19:50 PM
the trade deadline is going to be slllllllooooowwwwww this year.

all the insiders are reporting on speculation that other insiders came up with.  There are basically no legit rumours other than bit pieces.  I am glad that I'll be working on deadline day because it'll be painful to watch these clowns talk about nothing all day.

that is all.   
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2017, 09:02:52 AM
the trade deadline is going to be slllllllooooowwwwww this year.

all the insiders are reporting on speculation that other insiders came up with.  There are basically no legit rumours other than bit pieces.  I am glad that I'll be working on deadline day because it'll be painful to watch these clowns talk about nothing all day.

that is all.

With the expansion draft coming up I don't think trading will be slow.  Might not happen all that day but leading up to the day there should be a number of trades.  Teams have to get their rosters together for both the playoffs and the upcoming draft so tough decisions will have to be made by some teams.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 10, 2017, 09:23:01 AM
Might be interesting to watch Vegas. Not from a blockbuster aspect, but if they trade how will that affect the expansion draft.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 09:53:07 AM
Might be interesting to watch Vegas. Not from a blockbuster aspect, but if they trade how will that affect the expansion draft.

to be honest I forgot about this but I wonder how much it will affect the other teams because he can only make deals for players who aren't playing this year.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2017, 10:03:38 AM
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day?  They have no current players right?  I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: louisstamos on February 10, 2017, 10:08:05 AM
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day?  They have no current players right?  I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?

UFA signings?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2017, 10:15:38 AM
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day?  They have no current players right?  I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?

UFA signings?

That's a lot of UFA signings.  Is that how it's done?  From the 30 players they pick, I guess 23 stay with the big club and 7 go to their AHL affiliate?  Do they then have to go out and sign another 16 players?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 10:23:55 AM
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day?  They have no current players right?  I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?

could they trade draft picks for the rights to players who aren't on an nhl roster right now?  Like, for instance, could they trade a 2018 3rd round draft pick for a good jr aged player thats not in a particular teams long term plans?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 10:24:18 AM
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day?  They have no current players right?  I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?

It's possible, maybe even likely, that they only share an AHL affiliate with another team for a season or two before getting their own.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 10:26:52 AM
could they trade draft picks for the rights to players who aren't on an nhl roster right now?  Like, for instance, could they trade a 2018 3rd round draft pick for a good jr aged player thats not in a particular teams long term plans?

Yes: http://www.tsn.ca/golden-knights-could-be-involved-in-some-deadline-deals-1.661940
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 10, 2017, 10:27:54 AM
That's a lot of UFA signings.  Is that how it's done?  From the 30 players they pick, I guess 23 stay with the big club and 7 go to their AHL affiliate?  Do they then have to go out and sign another 16 players?

They also get to sign NHL UFA's. My guess is that a lot of the Brad Boyes/Curtis Glencross PTO guys we've seen in recent years get jobs in Vegas on the short term.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on February 10, 2017, 12:26:13 PM
With the expansion draft coming up I don't think trading will be slow.  Might not happen all that day but leading up to the day there should be a number of trades.  Teams have to get their rosters together for both the playoffs and the upcoming draft so tough decisions will have to be made by some teams.

I wouldn't expect the expansion draft to have a significant impact on the trade deadline. Teams have time to address the issues facing them between the playoffs and the expansion draft, and playoff bound teams will almost certainly opt to retain significant pieces for their playoff run.

If anything, the expansion draft might make it more difficult for teams on the outside to move anyone who isn't on an expiring contract.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 10, 2017, 01:51:01 PM

Another thing to maybe keep in mind is that if the Owners really didn't want to lose anything of value in an expansion draft they could have chosen much more favourable terms for existing clubs re: the number of players they can protect.

This expansion draft seems designed, smartly I think, to avoid the League having to try to break into a non-traditional market with an absolute tire fire of a home team. If a bunch of teams start making moves for the sole purpose of not losing anyone even remotely valuable to Vegas I can't help but think the League would be on the phone figuring out what's going on.

I don't for a second underestimate the Owners abilities to be duplicitous, selfish jerks who pretend they're part of a whole when it suits them and individual operators when it doesn't but my guess is some of them made peace with potentially losing a valuable asset when the expansion draft was discussed.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on February 14, 2017, 12:37:15 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-decision-galchenyuk-looms-canadiens/

Quote
16. Another UFA to watch is Tampa Bay’s Brian Boyle. You can see why playoff teams would be interested. Edmonton’s Peter Chiarelli went to see him in Minnesota last Friday. Columbus and Toronto are believed to be among other potential suitors. (The Maple Leafs tried to sign him as a free agent in 2014, although it was a different regime.)

Some tweeters were surprised I said during a radio interview he may fetch a first-rounder in return. It comes down to how much of a demand there is, but teams are not married to those picks in 2017. If one executive ever hears me getting wishy-washy on the topic, he texts a reminder: “How many times do I have to tell you that teams are going to trade their firsts? This draft is terrible!” I hope someone does so he stops yelling at me.

To the loser of the Boyle sweepstakes, might I offer Ben Smith as consolation? He's very good at face offs and blocking shots. 2018 first rounders are all I ask.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 14, 2017, 01:14:23 PM
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline.  Should I book March 1st off?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on February 14, 2017, 01:25:46 PM
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline.  Should I book March 1st off?

I wouldn't. While I expect this year's deadline to be more entertaining than last year's, I don't think it'll be so action packed that you won't be able to get away with following it at work. I still say most of the really exciting deals will happen between the Cup final and the expansion draft, and at the entry draft.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 14, 2017, 01:43:39 PM
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline.  Should I book March 1st off?

I wouldn't. While I expect this year's deadline to be more entertaining than last year's, I don't think it'll be so action packed that you won't be able to get away with following it at work. I still say most of the really exciting deals will happen between the Cup final and the expansion draft, and at the entry draft.

Frickin party pooper you are, I was looking for a short work week.  ;D
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: bustaheims on February 14, 2017, 03:00:37 PM
Frickin party pooper you are, I was looking for a short work week.  ;D

Well, I never said you couldn't take the day off for other reasons . . . I'm sure you can come up with something. :P
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on February 15, 2017, 02:46:14 PM
Mirtle with a good piece here on a stalling trade market:

https://theathletic.com/38474/2017/02/14/mirtle-vegas-expansion-draft-killing-trade-talk-around-the-nhl/
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: mr grieves on February 16, 2017, 03:42:02 PM
Besides the major, long-term need (a top-pairing defenseman), I think there's a relatively low cost, beneficial trade the Leafs could make for a depth forward. Surely we can improve on Gauthier, Smith, and Froese. Laich?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 16, 2017, 03:45:05 PM
Besides the major, long-term need (a top-pairing defenseman), I think there's a relatively low cost, beneficial trade the Leafs could make for a depth forward. Surely we can improve on Gauthier, Smith, and Froese. Laich?

Is there really a purpose served there though? Isn't the sort of push/pull of "How much we'd have to spend to acquire someone who'd make a real difference" vs. "The benefits of the difference they'd make" kind of render it a futile exercise?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on February 16, 2017, 04:06:53 PM
Unless a top-5 1RD is disgruntled with his team and insists on being traded only to the Leafs, I see no reason to spend at this deadline.

All I'm hoping to see are UFAs being moved out for futures, and maybe eating a bad but short contract for another prospect stuck behind a logjam.

I can see Froese getting the call up if Smith departs.

Polak + Smith for a 2018 2nd and 2019 2nd, anyone? It's like a PK combo deal.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: louisstamos on February 16, 2017, 04:12:47 PM
All I'm hoping to see are UFAs being moved out for futures, and maybe eating a bad but short contract for another prospect stuck behind a logjam.

I like this idea - look for playoffs teams that are close to the cap but want to buy at the deadline, and take a hefty (but expiring) player contract off their hands if it comes a pick and/or prospect.  Other team gets cap space, we get potential futures.  But I would only do this on D - on forward, I think we're pretty much going into the playoffs with the guys we have.

Edit: upon quick inspection - the Flyers are a team ripe for this.  No cap space, may be looking to buy.  We could take either Streit or Del Zotto off their hands if they're looking to pick up someone else at FWD or D.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 16, 2017, 04:13:33 PM
I'm willing to accept that JVR is probably not moving at the deadline but if that's the case they should really explore moving Komarov.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Andy on February 16, 2017, 04:56:23 PM
I'm willing to accept that JVR is probably not moving at the deadline but if that's the case they should really explore moving Komarov.

Well I have been under the impression that the use of Komarov strictly with Kardi and continually on the PP is based on the intent of moving him at the deadline. I'm hoping that that's the case because otherwise I'm not really sure what he's bringing to the team (and to the top 6).
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Jolly good show chaps on February 16, 2017, 05:05:19 PM
Is there a deal to be had with Anaheim and taking one of their bad contracts plus lesser of one of their D prospects in exchange for two decent forward prospects and a pick? Fair enough if this is a bit cloud cuckoo land...
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 16, 2017, 05:09:21 PM
Is there a deal to be had with Anaheim and taking one of their bad contracts plus lesser of one of their D prospects in exchange for two decent forward prospects and a pick? Fair enough if this is a bit cloud cuckoo land...

Seems to me like the devil would be in the details on that one.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: mr grieves on February 16, 2017, 05:58:53 PM
Besides the major, long-term need (a top-pairing defenseman), I think there's a relatively low cost, beneficial trade the Leafs could make for a depth forward. Surely we can improve on Gauthier, Smith, and Froese. Laich?

Is there really a purpose served there though? Isn't the sort of push/pull of "How much we'd have to spend to acquire someone who'd make a real difference" vs. "The benefits of the difference they'd make" kind of render it a futile exercise?

Eh. If you could get an expiring UFA with some penalty killing and playoff experience for a lower pick or even one of our three* 2nds, I think the marginally better play, plus the benefit of having someone used to playing in tight games down the stretch, would be nice to have around.

* for now. If they're moving Polak, Hunwick, Bozak, Komarov, and/or JvR between now and the draft, they should have a couple more.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: herman on February 16, 2017, 07:34:59 PM
Mirtle confirmed that all of our infirm are actually on LTIR as of very early in the season. I.e. We have ~15M in space.
www.twitter.com/mirtle/status/832313740108365830

https://theathletic.com/38871/2017/02/16/mirtle-making-sense-of-the-maple-leafs-crazy-salary-cap-situation/
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-team-needs-toronto-maple-leafs/

Wheel and deal.

I agree with Mirtle's take to conservatively limit the bonus overage. But some prospects are going to be worth the spend of eating a bad contract.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 16, 2017, 07:42:48 PM
Mirtle confirmed that all of our infirm are actually on LTIR as of very early in the season. I.e. We have ~15M in space.
www.twitter.com/mirtle/status/832313740108365830

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-team-needs-toronto-maple-leafs/

Wheel and deal.
Mirtle tweeted that Dubas and 2 Leafs scouts at the Colorado/Buffalo game tonight

Lol more than half the league has scouts at the game.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 16, 2017, 08:14:57 PM
Eh. If you could get an expiring UFA with some penalty killing and playoff experience for a lower pick or even one of our three* 2nds, I think the marginally better play, plus the benefit of having someone used to playing in tight games down the stretch, would be nice to have around.

* for now. If they're moving Polak, Hunwick, Bozak, Komarov, and/or JvR between now and the draft, they should have a couple more.

I think they only have two 2nds after the Andersen trade.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: L K on February 16, 2017, 08:34:52 PM
Eh. If you could get an expiring UFA with some penalty killing and playoff experience for a lower pick or even one of our three* 2nds, I think the marginally better play, plus the benefit of having someone used to playing in tight games down the stretch, would be nice to have around.

* for now. If they're moving Polak, Hunwick, Bozak, Komarov, and/or JvR between now and the draft, they should have a couple more.

I think they only have two 2nds after the Andersen trade.

Don't forget the draft pick compensation the Leafs have to give up for Babcock and Lou.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on February 17, 2017, 10:59:34 AM
Those were 3rd rounders and they've already confirmed to have parted with them.

As for scouts on hand for last night's Buffalo game... there were a LOT of scouts from around the league.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C40mMDHWIAAfvBF.jpg)



Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on February 17, 2017, 12:37:33 PM

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle  now16 seconds ago

 Babcock says on @LeafsLunch1050 that Leafs fans should probably "find something else to do" instead of watching deadline day coverage.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 17, 2017, 02:18:42 PM

Which, while I believe the Leafs won't do anything huge on deadline day, is what he'd say anyway. No real point in saying "Oh man, we're going to be getting rid of a bunch of guys! Stay tuned to find out who!"
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on February 17, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
From Jim Benning doesn’t know what a seller’s market is (http://www.vancourier.com/pass-it-to-bulis/jim-benning-doesn-t-know-what-a-seller-s-market-is-1.10056644?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter):

The moment in the interview that left me flabbergasted comes at 8:38. Blake Price asks Benning, “Would you agree that it is still a seller’s market?”

There is a long awkward pause, then Benning says, “Well, the problem is there’s not a lot of teams selling right now.”

Yes, Jim. That is the definition of a seller’s market.

Jim Benning, the General Manager of an NHL franchise worth an estimated $700 million, apparently doesn’t know what a seller’s market is.


LOL
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 17, 2017, 02:59:21 PM

James Mirtle ‏@mirtle  now16 seconds ago

 Babcock says on @LeafsLunch1050 that Leafs fans should probably "find something else to do" instead of watching deadline day coverage.

Hey, he could be right and the Leafs doing nothing on *Deadline Day!!!* but what's to stop them from making a deal 3-4 days before deadline day?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 17, 2017, 03:04:40 PM
Eh, I don't want to be a spoilsport but that's not 100% fair. The article says:

Quote
You have the supply, meager though it may be. The other teams in the NHL, the ones that are actually good and in the playoffs or at least in the hunt, they have the demand. With so few teams selling, there’s more demand than there is supply. It’s a seller’s market! This isn’t complicated!

A seller's market is one where a lack of supply and an abundance of demand causes prices to be artificially high. The thing is, despite the author's claims, supply and demand aren't simple concepts and they're not inextricably linked.

If very few teams are selling then that could be because demand is low and as a result the market isn't artificially inflated. Likewise, without a lot of teams selling, it's hard to gauge whether or not the market is inflated or not.

Lots of things are in short supply but they can still not be in demand and be accurately valued. 
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on February 17, 2017, 05:02:25 PM

Hey, he could be right and the Leafs doing nothing on *Deadline Day!!!* but what's to stop them from making a deal 3-4 days before deadline day?

Nothing.  Nothing at all. :)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 17, 2017, 05:24:10 PM
Eh, I don't want to be a spoilsport but that's not 100% fair. The article says:

Quote
You have the supply, meager though it may be. The other teams in the NHL, the ones that are actually good and in the playoffs or at least in the hunt, they have the demand. With so few teams selling, there’s more demand than there is supply. It’s a seller’s market! This isn’t complicated!

A seller's market is one where a lack of supply and an abundance of demand causes prices to be artificially high. The thing is, despite the author's claims, supply and demand aren't simple concepts and they're not inextricably linked.

If very few teams are selling then that could be because demand is low and as a result the market isn't artificially inflated. Likewise, without a lot of teams selling, it's hard to gauge whether or not the market is inflated or not.

Lots of things are in short supply but they can still not be in demand and be accurately valued.

Yeah, just because a bunch of teams are in playoff contention, that doesn't mean a bunch of them want to make moves.  I think more and more teams are taking the wait and see approach, and building their team more in the summer.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: jdh1 on February 17, 2017, 07:54:07 PM
I can see no.25 being dealt by the deadline,if another team can fit him in on the protected list in the off season.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: disco on February 18, 2017, 03:10:58 AM
I love JVR and Bozie but I think moving forward on this team, any players set to make $4.5+ long-term will have to be at least good defensively, if not very good, along with all of their offensive weapons. There just isn't enough cap room and this league is just too tight to have anyone that doesn't back-check hard and have a high defensive IQ. Naz showed it last year so he got his money and term. Marnthews do it even at 19, so when they come up they'll get maxed out.

The reason why I don't think JVR and Bozak are here long term is not only will they probably be looking for Naz type money and term, but I feel they've been on the ice for too many goals against. I love JVR touch around the net and Bozie's offensive IQ and faceoffs, but the Leafs will have a lot of picks maturing in the next few years, most at the forward position. They'll all be cheap coming up and can contribute the offence we'll lose.

So I believe we're done flipping assets for picks at the deadline. Since we're in playoff races now I think these two will play out their contracts and hit the market. Bozie will be 32 when he's up but JVR will be 29, I think he's more likely to be moved next year if they don't sign him long-term. He could fetch something decent.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Peter D. on February 21, 2017, 10:46:43 AM
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline.  Should I book March 1st off?

I used to book it off for a few deadlines.  Hung out with some buddies sitting around waiting for big deals to come through.  Never did.  Biggest waste of vacation days. LOL
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: sneakyray on February 22, 2017, 07:52:03 AM
1 week left!
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 22, 2017, 06:25:20 PM

Per Friedman's latest the Red Wings are coming to grips with reality and will probably be sellers on deadline day.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Zee on February 22, 2017, 07:10:34 PM

Per Friedman's latest the Red Wings are coming to grips with reality and will probably be sellers on deadline day.
End of an era. It really is incredible they continually made the playoffs for 25 years straight, quite the run they had.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 24, 2017, 10:07:19 AM

Shattenkirk rejects 7 years/42 million (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/morning-skate/shattenkirk-nixes-blues-trade-proposal/article_1d76ccd4-1ba2-5cc7-aaf6-267380da2c29.html)

Worth a read. Apparently St. Louis had a deal with Tampa that Shattenkirk nixed. Will probably be a rental now.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Frank E on February 24, 2017, 10:15:56 AM

Shattenkirk rejects 7 years/42 million (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/morning-skate/shattenkirk-nixes-blues-trade-proposal/article_1d76ccd4-1ba2-5cc7-aaf6-267380da2c29.html)

Worth a read. Apparently St. Louis had a deal with Tampa that Shattenkirk nixed. Will probably be a rental now.

That's real dedication to ensuring you're turning your assets before they expire...or, I guess we'll see if they do that anyways.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 24, 2017, 10:20:28 AM
I'd be really curious to know what kind of offer was good enough here from Tampa that St. Louis would have accepted an offer for. Especially in a deal that would have included a contract extension for Shattenkirk. Tampa's prospect pool isn't really anything special. Drouin was mentioned in Shattenkirk deals last season but with his play this season there's almost no way he was on the table anymore. I doubt Vasilevskiy would have been offered too.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Nik on February 24, 2017, 10:28:14 AM
I'd be really curious to know what kind of offer was good enough here from Tampa that St. Louis would have accepted an offer for. Especially in a deal that would have included a contract extension for Shattenkirk. Tampa's prospect pool isn't really anything special. Drouin was mentioned in Shattenkirk deals last season but with his play this season there's almost no way he was on the table anymore. I doubt Vasilevskiy would have been offered too.

Yeah, I wondered about that too(Also how it would work capwise).

My guess is it would have been built around one of Johnson or Palat.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 24, 2017, 04:17:24 PM
I'd be really curious to know what kind of offer was good enough here from Tampa that St. Louis would have accepted an offer for. Especially in a deal that would have included a contract extension for Shattenkirk. Tampa's prospect pool isn't really anything special. Drouin was mentioned in Shattenkirk deals last season but with his play this season there's almost no way he was on the table anymore. I doubt Vasilevskiy would have been offered too.

Yeah, I wondered about that too(Also how it would work capwise).

My guess is it would have been built around one of Johnson or Palat.

Tyler Johnson is the name I heard this morning, possibly McKenzie speculating?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: mr grieves on February 26, 2017, 01:47:55 AM
SportsNet's Chris Johnston agrees (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/overtime-loss-reinforces-idea-maple-leafs-need-help-centre/): time to get a depth center.

Quote
It wasn’t a sequence that warranted individual blame quite so much as it reinforced an idea that’s been running through the top levels of the organization for some time now: They could still use more help down the middle.

Babcock certainly made no secret of his feelings on the matter – “I think we have good depth in lots of spots, not as much at centre ice” – and now we wait to see if general manager Lou Lamoriello can line up a deal that makes sense ahead of Wednesday’s 3 p.m. ET trade deadline.

The thinking here is easy to understand.

As much as the Leafs still feel it necessary to closely guard their draft picks and prospects, they also believe it’s vital to give the youngest roster in the NHL an opportunity to grow through the experience of playing big games down the stretch.

Whatever a deadline rental center costs is surely less than what they'll recoup trading Bozak, JvR, and Komarov over the next year.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 26, 2017, 05:50:51 PM
According to PPP, Brendan Smith (UFA $2..75M cap hit), and Riley Sheahan (1 yr. rem.@ 2.07M), are possible players the Leafs may be interested in from the Red Wings.  (This was also discussed on HNIC Saturday night.).

Sheahan's a centre and Smith a defenceman. If the Leafs were considering a Hunwick or Polak unloading then Smith could be a decent fill-in.  Sheahan would take the place of Ben Smith or Gauthier and add much-needed depth at that position.


http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: Mr. Leaf on February 26, 2017, 06:07:42 PM
According to PPP, Brendan Smith (UFA $2..75M cap hit), and Riley Sheahan (1 yr. rem.@ 2.07M), are possible players the Leafs may be interested in from the Red Wings.  (This was also discussed on HNIC Saturday night.).

Sheahan's a centre and Smith a defenceman. If the Leafs were considering a Hunwick or Polak unloading then Smith could be a decent fill-in.  Sheahan would take the place of Ben Smith or Gauthier and add much-needed depth at that position.


http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline)
Last night on HNIC Kypreos said it could cost the Leafs as much as a first round pick for Sheehan...that's crazy!
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 10:18:55 AM
(http://media.balltribe.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/NHL-1.jpg)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 10:28:14 AM

Pierre LeBrun‏Verified account @Real_ESPNLeBrun  now40 seconds ago

 Hearing that the Flyers are close to re-signing goalie Michal Neuvirth (pending UFA July 1)
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 10:47:20 AM


 San Antonio Rampage‏Verified account @sarampage  now2 minutes ago

 BREAKING: @Avalanche have acquired Brendan Ranford from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for Joe Whitney.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 11:58:49 AM

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie  now1 minute ago

 FLA gives up Dylan McIlrath and a third round pick to DET for Thomas Vanek. DET retains 50 per cent of salary.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 01:22:31 PM
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on March 01, 2017, 01:29:46 PM
837003500219482119

Fascinating
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 01:43:42 PM
837003500219482119

Fascinating

Lance Hornby‏Verified account
@sunhornby

Leafs move Soshnikov to the Marlies, but remember that AHL playoff roster considerations mean some moves must be made today.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on March 01, 2017, 01:44:56 PM
Thanks, it does seem like a housekeeping move.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: RedLeaf on March 01, 2017, 02:50:23 PM
Franson for a 3rd?
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: TBLeafer on March 01, 2017, 03:17:44 PM

Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie  now1 minute ago

 Sounds like Eric Fehr to TOR.


Bob McKenzie‏Verified account @TSNBobMcKenzie  now1 minute ago

 Frankie Corrado to PIT for Oleksy, Fehr and a fourth-round pick in 2017.
Title: Re: 2017 Trade Deadline Watch
Post by: disco on March 01, 2017, 06:00:31 PM
Happy for Iggy. Rooting for LA to get in a go on a run.