For the first time in a long time, I'm not expecting the Leafs to be very busy on deadline day. They don't have the usual glut of veterans to unload, and they aren't exactly in buy mode either.
For the first time in a long time, I'm not expecting the Leafs to be very busy on deadline day. They don't have the usual glut of veterans to unload, and they aren't exactly in buy mode either.
This
I basically expect the Leafs to go with what they have.
No trade deadline deals at all.
But of course I could be wrong :)
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.
Wanting to keep JVR in lieu of a trade can be rationalized, I guess, but not wanting to trade Polak or Hunwick for picks because they're too valuable to this team for this season? I really don't get it.
Admittedly it's still 6 or so weeks out and a lot can change in the standings between now and then but I think it'd be a real mistake by the Leafs to not make some hay out of Polak/Hunwick while they can, especially when they have internal options to replace them.
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own?
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own?
For the record, yes. Both of them. Polak got two 2nd's a year ago and it's not like he's massively fallen off.
I guess my thinking on Hunlak ATM is that they're more valuable to the team right now, than the draft picks they'd return as rentals.
Wanting to keep JVR in lieu of a trade can be rationalized, I guess, but not wanting to trade Polak or Hunwick for picks because they're too valuable to this team for this season? I really don't get it.
Admittedly it's still 6 or so weeks out and a lot can change in the standings between now and then but I think it'd be a real mistake by the Leafs to not make some hay out of Polak/Hunwick while they can, especially when they have internal options to replace them.
If Rielly's out for awhile and Hunwick looks even half-decent it could go a long way to making him a somewhat valuable chip.
I'm hoping Shanahan calls "desperate to win now" Florida and steals Ekblad away from them. Would have never believed there to be a chance until Weber and Subban got traded. So what would that take
Bozak Kapanen Nielson and our 1st 2017. I would do it
The above is based on the premise you are actually trying to compete for a playoff spot. For some in Leafs nation the playoffs shouldn't even be a goal this year and getting as many future assets as possible is more important. I personally disagree with that, but to each their own. Of course, it all depends on the return. If these two garner 4th round picks I don't think its worth hurting the chance of making the playoffs. I think even just one round of playoff experience for this young group will be extremely helpful to their development.
Do you see either going for a 2nd rounder on their own?
For the record, yes. Both of them. Polak got two 2nd's a year ago and it's not like he's massively fallen off.
But as of right now (we'll see how the next few weeks shakes out), the Leafs aren't sellers. With just 47 contracts currently and well under cap, they're equipped to be buyers.
But as of right now (we'll see how the next few weeks shakes out), the Leafs aren't sellers. With just 47 contracts currently and well under cap, they're equipped to be buyers.
I think we need to move on from the binary concept of buyers and sellers. I think smart teams should move on from contracts(and add to a prospect base) they can afford to shed regardless of where they are in the standings if they can replace them with no real downside and likewise teams near the bottom should still be looking to make good long term moves by bringing players on board if it's possible.
I hear ya and its an interesting concept. But a winning mix for a team at the deadline, comfortably in a playoff spot generally won't disturb that mix through the trading of roster players for futures during that season. They look for the piece to push that team over the top.
I hear ya and its an interesting concept. But a winning mix for a team at the deadline, comfortably in a playoff spot generally won't disturb that mix through the trading of roster players for futures during that season. They look for the piece to push that team over the top.
Maybe but a team that's "comfortably" in a playoff spot is effectively a legitimate cup contender. If a team would be out of a playoff spot because of a brief stumble you really shouldn't think of them in that same sense.
I still appreciate there will be teams thinking exclusively short-term right at the top and teams at the bottom who want to blow it up but for teams in the middle, which composes the vast majority of the league, thinking in those sorts of absolutes just doesn't make sense.
That's why I said I want to see how the next few games shake out for the Leafs. They could very well be exiting the "mushy middle".
And I generally agree that the mushy middle aren't legit contenders. Do you just consider each division leader a contender, or does it go beyond that?
Well, there are some pretty weak divisions so no. Right now none of Chicago, Pittsburgh and Washington are leading their divisions but all of them are legitimately in the mix for a title. I'm having questions about NYR right now but I'd take Pittsburgh and Washington in a 7 game series over Montreal.
I don't know if there's a single solitary metric I'd use to say whether someone has separated themselves from the pack but I would say, and this is what I think about the Leafs right now, that if you really need to wait and see how a few games play out they're probably not there. The Blackhawks or Penguins could lose their next five games by a combined score of 25-0 and I think we'd all know they were still of a certain quality.
Yeah, I think that has to do with the this version of the Leafs not being time tested and battle hardened. Just too early to tell. But in a few games of the second half, if they look like are in a good position to pin down home ice advantage, rather than fight for a post-season spot, it becomes a lot less muddied, agreed?
Well no because like I said I don't think teams should think in binary terms. There is no good reason, regardless of where the Leafs are in the standings, to not take advantage of the opportunities that expiring contracts present or to seriously flirt with losing JVR for nothing in a year.
So along those lines, even if the Leafs win their next 7 games or whatever if you still are of the opinion that trading Hunwick or Polak would seriously damage what they're capable of accomplishing I'd say you're effectively making the argument that the Leafs aren't good enough to be thinking short term.
I gather that's because you're against the idea, in general of ever having to lose a player (via UFA) without getting some sort of asset back in return.
Problem is, Polak/Hunwick, even JVR aren't rebuilding pieces. They're pieces for bubble/contending teams to improve either D depth or scoring help up front short term. Just as they can help the Leafs with their playoff campaign.
Plus, we're already the youngest team in the NHL. How much younger do you want this team, this season to get?
Nik, are you a descendant of Sisyphus?
In my better days I like to think Prometheus. This is just the liver-eating part of the story.
In general, sure. If you can get a 2nd round pick for someone I think you should, if you can get what JVR would fetch and choose not to you should be locked up.
I don't see why that constitutes a problem. They're valuable pieces, they won't be here long-term...turn 'em into something.
That doesn't really play into it for me. Like Busta said, you can pick up guys as old as JVR or Hunlak or even older on the cheap to fill out the roster and still add the assets they'd fetch.
I'd like to see Leipsic called up in the second half but that's not a question of making the team younger, it's because I think he's earned it and would make the team better.
So what in your mind does JVR fetch?
Possibly, but I'd like to see him and Kap lead the Marlies to at least a winning record before we're ready to say they are definite upgrades over any of our current top nine wingers.
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak. I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had? Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak. I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had? Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?
If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak. I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had? Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?
If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak. I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had? Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?
If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?
yeah, I mean, looking at this a day later it doesnt look as good as I thought. In defense my thought was that bozak is probably an upgrade right now for the oilers as a #3 C and hes cheaper and signed for shorter. I guess it just depends on how much they have soured on nuge and what they think of both bozak and polak as players in regards to their needs.
I am hoping for a C upgrade to bozak. I am wondering if Duchene is prohibitively expensive maybe nugent-hopkins could be had? Bozak and one of polak/hunwick/corrado plus maybe some lesser prospects picks...and maybe the leafs could retain a little on bozak?
If you were the Oilers - even with their questionable management group - would you make that deal?
yeah, I mean, looking at this a day later it doesnt look as good as I thought. In defense my thought was that bozak is probably an upgrade right now for the oilers as a #3 C and hes cheaper and signed for shorter. I guess it just depends on how much they have soured on nuge and what they think of both bozak and polak as players in regards to their needs.
The other problem is that deals don't happen in a vacuum. What the Leafs would be offering would have to be better than what 28 other teams would be offering, if they were in on the deal.
Maybe just to flip it a little but right now if RNH were available for free would picking him up even be a good idea? He's more young-ish than he is young(he turns 24 in a few months) and he's not cheap. He's been productive to the tune of about 56 points per 82 games but there's nothing special about his possession numbers and his face-off numbers are pretty terrible.
He certainly wouldn't play over Matthews, is he even better than Kadri? And with Nylander hopefully moving into the middle eventually, is spending 6 million dollars on a guy who's probably a 2/3 guy on the depth chart even before you get to Nylander a good bet?
If the team were desperate down the middle, sure, but it's probably their strongest position.
Yeah, I'm not really interested in acquiring higher dollar forwards right now until the Leafs figure out what they've got in their top 9.
I'm super interested in acquiring some strong defense prospects, or young up and coming current NHL d-men.
1) Sign Shattenkirk
2) Trade for Landeskog
3) Don't wait until late August to sign a back-up goalie in the summer
(admittedly, pretty pipe-dreamy)
I am very excited to get the trade for Landeskog bandwagon going.
Hyman-Matthews-Marner
Landeskog-Nylander-Kapanen
Leipsic-Kadri-Brown
Martin-Gauthier-Sosh
Dare to dream
1) Sign Shattenkirk
2) Trade for Landeskog
3) Don't wait until late August to sign a back-up goalie in the summer
(admittedly, pretty pipe-dreamy)
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.
You may have missed my post yesterday but my idea was essentially that you deal JVR for picks/prospects and flip those picks/prospects for Landeskog.
I like the idea of Landeskog, but I just can't see how the Leafs can make a deal with the Avs given that they'd want picks and/or prospects, and I don't think the Leafs are at a point where they can afford to expend those assets.
You may have missed my post yesterday but my idea was essentially that you deal JVR for picks/prospects and flip those picks/prospects for Landeskog.
I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.
I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.
I like it, but I'm thinking that as sexy as Landeskog is, they should really use JVR's return for the defense.
I understand where you're coming from on that but you would have to be realistic about what the return likely would be. JVR isn't Hall and Hall fetched Larsson.
You're probably talking about a mid-1st and a good D prospect.
I like to think I'm realistic, and I really don't want to put all my eggs in the Shattenkirk basket.
I think they're really going to need to do something here this summer with the bottom 3. I can't imagine Polak and Hunwick are back next year, and as high as some are on Carrick, I'm not.
If they move out JVR and Bozak, I think that the offense of those 2 is replaceable within the current system, or at least close to it. And as much as we may dislike Hunwick and Polak, the bottom 3 d-men are not replaceable with the farm bodies today.
Now, fair to you if you'd say you'd rather use those prospects and picks to draft and develop defensemen but that isn't the immediate upgrade you seem to be in search of.
In my best case scenario, if they can't make a deal with someone to get the d-men prospects, then they use the returns to acquire a couple of 20-23 year old solid top 4 prospects that can play limited minutes today.
I'm not the best a reading possession stats, but they seem pretty good.
One thought that's been bouncing around in my head is, I wonder if there's a way to take advantage of Minnesota. They're gonna have to expose 2 defenders and lose 1.
Trading for 1 of their defenders doesn't do any good, but what if we traded for 2 of them and sent back Zaitsev?
Something like:
Dumba or Brodin + Spurgeon or Scandella
For
Zaitsev + <something to close out value>
This way, Minnesota doesn't lose a defender for nothing, and receive at least one top4 defender back.
Leafs, meanwhile, pickup a young top4 guy, plus a mid-aged top4 guy.
So, you want to solve Minnesota's problem by putting us in the same one?
Gardiner
Rielly
Dumba
Spurgeon
Marincin
Carrick
You can only protect three as far as I know and three is most likely given the forwards they'll have to try to protect.
PS: the protection options are:
7F + 3D + 1G
Or
8 skaters + 1G
Edit: and ideally, you trade Bozak at the deadline to avoid losing him for nothing - he probably has the most value there...
Actually, we can protect 8 players (plus goalie) to ensure we don't lose anything that's part of the core.
Reilly, Gardiner, Dumba/Brodin, Spurgeon/Scandella, Kadri, Brown, JvR, one other player (likely Komarov)
Possibly exposed:
Bozak
Leivo
Rachel
Carrick
Marincin
I think it's worth it to lose one of those guys for what we could get.
EDIT: I played around with the cap friendly expansion tool and just can't see them exposing some of the guys that they would need to if they go the 8 skater route.
EDIT: I played around with the cap friendly expansion tool and just can't see them exposing some of the guys that they would need to if they go the 8 skater route.
Me neither. I don't imagine we'll see any significant additions until after the expansion draft.
the trade deadline is going to be slllllllooooowwwwww this year.
all the insiders are reporting on speculation that other insiders came up with. There are basically no legit rumours other than bit pieces. I am glad that I'll be working on deadline day because it'll be painful to watch these clowns talk about nothing all day.
that is all.
Might be interesting to watch Vegas. Not from a blockbuster aspect, but if they trade how will that affect the expansion draft.
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day? They have no current players right? I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day? They have no current players right? I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?
UFA signings?
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day? They have no current players right? I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?
How does Vegas even factor into trade deadline day? They have no current players right? I understand they'll get to pick 30 players in the expansion draft, but how do they fill out the rest of their contracts so they can ice an AHL team as well?
could they trade draft picks for the rights to players who aren't on an nhl roster right now? Like, for instance, could they trade a 2018 3rd round draft pick for a good jr aged player thats not in a particular teams long term plans?
That's a lot of UFA signings. Is that how it's done? From the 30 players they pick, I guess 23 stay with the big club and 7 go to their AHL affiliate? Do they then have to go out and sign another 16 players?
With the expansion draft coming up I don't think trading will be slow. Might not happen all that day but leading up to the day there should be a number of trades. Teams have to get their rosters together for both the playoffs and the upcoming draft so tough decisions will have to be made by some teams.
16. Another UFA to watch is Tampa Bay’s Brian Boyle. You can see why playoff teams would be interested. Edmonton’s Peter Chiarelli went to see him in Minnesota last Friday. Columbus and Toronto are believed to be among other potential suitors. (The Maple Leafs tried to sign him as a free agent in 2014, although it was a different regime.)
Some tweeters were surprised I said during a radio interview he may fetch a first-rounder in return. It comes down to how much of a demand there is, but teams are not married to those picks in 2017. If one executive ever hears me getting wishy-washy on the topic, he texts a reminder: “How many times do I have to tell you that teams are going to trade their firsts? This draft is terrible!” I hope someone does so he stops yelling at me.
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline. Should I book March 1st off?
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline. Should I book March 1st off?
I wouldn't. While I expect this year's deadline to be more entertaining than last year's, I don't think it'll be so action packed that you won't be able to get away with following it at work. I still say most of the really exciting deals will happen between the Cup final and the expansion draft, and at the entry draft.
Frickin party pooper you are, I was looking for a short work week. ;D
Besides the major, long-term need (a top-pairing defenseman), I think there's a relatively low cost, beneficial trade the Leafs could make for a depth forward. Surely we can improve on Gauthier, Smith, and Froese. Laich?
All I'm hoping to see are UFAs being moved out for futures, and maybe eating a bad but short contract for another prospect stuck behind a logjam.
I'm willing to accept that JVR is probably not moving at the deadline but if that's the case they should really explore moving Komarov.
Is there a deal to be had with Anaheim and taking one of their bad contracts plus lesser of one of their D prospects in exchange for two decent forward prospects and a pick? Fair enough if this is a bit cloud cuckoo land...
Besides the major, long-term need (a top-pairing defenseman), I think there's a relatively low cost, beneficial trade the Leafs could make for a depth forward. Surely we can improve on Gauthier, Smith, and Froese. Laich?
Is there really a purpose served there though? Isn't the sort of push/pull of "How much we'd have to spend to acquire someone who'd make a real difference" vs. "The benefits of the difference they'd make" kind of render it a futile exercise?
www.twitter.com/mirtle/status/832313740108365830Confirmed that the Leafs put Lupul, Horton and Robidas on LTIR early on this season and it wasn't reported. They have a lot of cap room.
— James Mirtle (@mirtle) February 16, 2017
Mirtle confirmed that all of our infirm are actually on LTIR as of very early in the season. I.e. We have ~15M in space.Mirtle tweeted that Dubas and 2 Leafs scouts at the Colorado/Buffalo game tonightwww.twitter.com/mirtle/status/832313740108365830Confirmed that the Leafs put Lupul, Horton and Robidas on LTIR early on this season and it wasn't reported. They have a lot of cap room.
— James Mirtle (@mirtle) February 16, 2017
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-team-needs-toronto-maple-leafs/
Wheel and deal.
Eh. If you could get an expiring UFA with some penalty killing and playoff experience for a lower pick or even one of our three* 2nds, I think the marginally better play, plus the benefit of having someone used to playing in tight games down the stretch, would be nice to have around.
* for now. If they're moving Polak, Hunwick, Bozak, Komarov, and/or JvR between now and the draft, they should have a couple more.
Eh. If you could get an expiring UFA with some penalty killing and playoff experience for a lower pick or even one of our three* 2nds, I think the marginally better play, plus the benefit of having someone used to playing in tight games down the stretch, would be nice to have around.
* for now. If they're moving Polak, Hunwick, Bozak, Komarov, and/or JvR between now and the draft, they should have a couple more.
I think they only have two 2nds after the Andersen trade.
Babcock says on @LeafsLunch1050 that Leafs fans should probably "find something else to do" instead of watching deadline day coverage.
— James Mirtle (@mirtle) February 17, 2017
Babcock says on @LeafsLunch1050 that Leafs fans should probably "find something else to do" instead of watching deadline day coverage.
— James Mirtle (@mirtle) February 17, 2017
James Mirtle @mirtle now16 seconds ago
Babcock says on @LeafsLunch1050 that Leafs fans should probably "find something else to do" instead of watching deadline day coverage.
You have the supply, meager though it may be. The other teams in the NHL, the ones that are actually good and in the playoffs or at least in the hunt, they have the demand. With so few teams selling, there’s more demand than there is supply. It’s a seller’s market! This isn’t complicated!
Hey, he could be right and the Leafs doing nothing on *Deadline Day!!!* but what's to stop them from making a deal 3-4 days before deadline day?
Eh, I don't want to be a spoilsport but that's not 100% fair. The article says:QuoteYou have the supply, meager though it may be. The other teams in the NHL, the ones that are actually good and in the playoffs or at least in the hunt, they have the demand. With so few teams selling, there’s more demand than there is supply. It’s a seller’s market! This isn’t complicated!
A seller's market is one where a lack of supply and an abundance of demand causes prices to be artificially high. The thing is, despite the author's claims, supply and demand aren't simple concepts and they're not inextricably linked.
If very few teams are selling then that could be because demand is low and as a result the market isn't artificially inflated. Likewise, without a lot of teams selling, it's hard to gauge whether or not the market is inflated or not.
Lots of things are in short supply but they can still not be in demand and be accurately valued.
Tomorrow is 2 weeks to the deadline. Should I book March 1st off?
End of an era. It really is incredible they continually made the playoffs for 25 years straight, quite the run they had.
Per Friedman's latest the Red Wings are coming to grips with reality and will probably be sellers on deadline day.
Shattenkirk rejects 7 years/42 million (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/hockey/professional/morning-skate/shattenkirk-nixes-blues-trade-proposal/article_1d76ccd4-1ba2-5cc7-aaf6-267380da2c29.html)
Worth a read. Apparently St. Louis had a deal with Tampa that Shattenkirk nixed. Will probably be a rental now.
I'd be really curious to know what kind of offer was good enough here from Tampa that St. Louis would have accepted an offer for. Especially in a deal that would have included a contract extension for Shattenkirk. Tampa's prospect pool isn't really anything special. Drouin was mentioned in Shattenkirk deals last season but with his play this season there's almost no way he was on the table anymore. I doubt Vasilevskiy would have been offered too.
I'd be really curious to know what kind of offer was good enough here from Tampa that St. Louis would have accepted an offer for. Especially in a deal that would have included a contract extension for Shattenkirk. Tampa's prospect pool isn't really anything special. Drouin was mentioned in Shattenkirk deals last season but with his play this season there's almost no way he was on the table anymore. I doubt Vasilevskiy would have been offered too.
Yeah, I wondered about that too(Also how it would work capwise).
My guess is it would have been built around one of Johnson or Palat.
It wasn’t a sequence that warranted individual blame quite so much as it reinforced an idea that’s been running through the top levels of the organization for some time now: They could still use more help down the middle.
Babcock certainly made no secret of his feelings on the matter – “I think we have good depth in lots of spots, not as much at centre ice” – and now we wait to see if general manager Lou Lamoriello can line up a deal that makes sense ahead of Wednesday’s 3 p.m. ET trade deadline.
The thinking here is easy to understand.
As much as the Leafs still feel it necessary to closely guard their draft picks and prospects, they also believe it’s vital to give the youngest roster in the NHL an opportunity to grow through the experience of playing big games down the stretch.
According to PPP, Brendan Smith (UFA $2..75M cap hit), and Riley Sheahan (1 yr. rem.@ 2.07M), are possible players the Leafs may be interested in from the Red Wings. (This was also discussed on HNIC Saturday night.).Last night on HNIC Kypreos said it could cost the Leafs as much as a first round pick for Sheehan...that's crazy!
Sheahan's a centre and Smith a defenceman. If the Leafs were considering a Hunwick or Polak unloading then Smith could be a decent fill-in. Sheahan would take the place of Ben Smith or Gauthier and add much-needed depth at that position.
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/2/26/14741398/toronto-maple-leafs-trade-rumours-riley-sheahan-brendan-smith-2017-nhl-trade-deadline)
Hearing that the Flyers are close to re-signing goalie Michal Neuvirth (pending UFA July 1)
— Pierre LeBrun (@PierreVLeBrun) March 1, 2017
BREAKING: @Avalanche have acquired Brendan Ranford from the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for Joe Whitney.
— San Antonio Rampage (@sarampage) March 1, 2017
👉 https://t.co/ctnEbB9lAB pic.twitter.com/F6EwJ5F7Lq
FLA gives up Dylan McIlrath and a third round pick to DET for Thomas Vanek. DET retains 50 per cent of salary.
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) March 1, 2017
Leafs move Soshnikov to the Marlies, but remember that AHL playoff roster considerations mean some moves must be made today.
— Lance Hornby (@sunhornby) March 1, 2017
837003500219482119
837003500219482119
Fascinating
Sounds like Eric Fehr to TOR.
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) March 1, 2017
Frankie Corrado to PIT for Oleksy, Fehr and a fourth-round pick in 2017.
— Bob McKenzie (@TSNBobMcKenzie) March 1, 2017