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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Media Rumours => General Rumours & Speculation => Topic started by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 08:24:03 AM

Title: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 08:24:03 AM
http://thehockeypress.ca/posts/20218576/nhl-trade-rumors--rick-nash-to-anaheim-ducks-st--louis-blues--very-close----james-van-riemsdyk-for-cam-fowler--h3----draft-fa---oilers--sabres--stamkos--datsyuk---and-more.html (http://thehockeypress.ca/posts/20218576/nhl-trade-rumors--rick-nash-to-anaheim-ducks-st--louis-blues--very-close----james-van-riemsdyk-for-cam-fowler--h3----draft-fa---oilers--sabres--stamkos--datsyuk---and-more.html)

Quote
TheHockeyPress has heard Ducks new coach Randy Carlyle has loved James Van Riemsdyk' play ever since he coached in Toronto. Just his size and the ability to score amazes Randy. One source specifically told us Randy has approached Ducks GM saying to acquire JVR, and while they tried to get him w/Fredrik Andersen it didn't work out but reports indicates, Ducks aren't going to give up. We can confirm ANH/TOR are still constantly talking in hopes of making a JVR/Fowler trade. While the Toronto Maple Leafs do hold a lot of value to Van Riemsdyk's name, they are willing to trade him for a price, and the price is reportedly a defenseman [Cam Fowler], and Prospects/Picks. The talks are getting closer and closer as we speak. The teams may hold off the deal until the draft, but watch out for this to be the topic of the day on Friday.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 22, 2016, 08:35:16 AM
Insert Lindholm for Fowler and then we can begin talking.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 08:41:19 AM

That does not seem like a particularly professional looking site.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 08:42:07 AM
Insert Lindholm for Fowler and then we can begin talking.

That's the obvious preference but Lindholm is their Rielly.  Not happening.

This trade possibility is being batted about on Sportsnet, too.

Anaheim would need to add a pick/prospect (my guess is blue chip) to Fowler to make it work.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2016, 08:42:49 AM
I'm not sure Fowler would be my top target - the fact that he's already had a few knee issues is a concern - but, I don't think the value is awful. That being said, I do question the validity of the source here, being that it's basically a fan run blog.

Feels a little more like a connect the dots type rumour - Ducks need help on the wing, are probably looking to get value for one of their defencemen before the expansion draft, and there's a connection between Carlyle and JvR. The Leafs are looking for D, and are rumoured to be open to moving JvR. Not convinced there's more to it than that.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 08:45:04 AM

That does not seem like a particularly professional looking site.

No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

This one is legit:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-marc-andre-fleury-calgary-flames-first-round-draft-pick-jimmy-vesey-cam-fowler-red-wings-shattenkirk-oilers-rangers-bruins-sharks/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-rumours-marc-andre-fleury-calgary-flames-first-round-draft-pick-jimmy-vesey-cam-fowler-red-wings-shattenkirk-oilers-rangers-bruins-sharks/)

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RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2016, 08:46:12 AM
Yeah, Fowler really does nothing for me. We already have 2 lefties better than him.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 08:50:42 AM
No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

How? Who with inside information is going to call up this blogger and leak to him? What's his source? What's his record of reliability?

Quote
RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)

There's a very big difference between saying someone has been "suggested as a fit" which you or I can do and is what the Sportsnet piece reports and saying that discussions about the trade have already happened, which is what the blogger is saying and which requires inside information.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 22, 2016, 09:08:23 AM
They make this claim:

"One source specifically told us Randy has approached Ducks GM saying to acquire JVR"

Lying? Do people do that on the Internet?
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 09:23:33 AM
No it appears to be a blogger site but even they can sometimes luck into a good trade source.

How? Who with inside information is going to call up this blogger and leak to him? What's his source? What's his record of reliability?

Quote
RFA Hampus Lindholm is without a contract for next season, but it's versatile 24-year-old Cam Fowler signed for two more seasons at $4 million each whose name is getting tossed around this week.

Loui Eriksson (UFA), James van Riemsdyk, Rick Nash and Taylor Hall have been suggested as fits for Anaheim.

We all know how high on JVR Randy Carlyle was.  He was even his go to guy when Bozak went down as 1C over Kadri.  ;)

There's a very big difference between saying someone has been "suggested as a fit" which you or I can do and is what the Sportsnet piece reports and saying that discussions about the trade have already happened, which is what the blogger is saying and which requires inside information.

Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 09:32:12 AM
Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Well, rumours are fundamentally claims of something that did or didn't happen. Either the Leafs and Ducks did talk about it or they didn't. Something being believable isn't just whether or not something is possible, it's whether or not someone is in a reasonable position to know something that the public doesn't.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.

Sure, which is why guys like Dreger and McKenzie and Friedman trade on their history, reliability and positions of relative authority. Absent those there's nothing to go on.

But more than that, frequently Dreger or McKenzie or Friedman will cite a "team source" or "league source" which is at the very least a statement of where the information is coming from. Again, these guys comport to standards of journalism because it's playing by those standards that give them credibility.

It's also why, for instance, you don't tend to see them tweet trade rumours nobody else is.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: herman on June 22, 2016, 09:40:28 AM
Reddit posters have mentioned a few times (without citation) that Anaheim loves Fowler more than Lindholm. That excites me, but until I see a quote from Murray about that, I am going to just keep Lindholm in that wish pile.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 09:43:25 AM
Is it out of the realm of possibility? Because that's all that rumours are anyway.

Well, rumours are fundamentally claims of something that did or didn't happen. Either the Leafs and Ducks did talk about it or they didn't. Something being believable isn't just whether or not something is possible, it's whether or not someone is in a reasonable position to know something that the public doesn't.

Not one insider names their source that I can think of.  If they ever leak a source, nobody would ever privilege them with insider information.

Sure, which is why guys like Dreger and McKenzie and Friedman trade on their history, reliability and positions of relative authority. Absent those there's nothing to go on.

But more than that, frequently Dreger or McKenzie or Friedman will cite a "team source" or "league source" which is at the very least a statement of where the information is coming from. Again, these guys comport to standards of journalism because it's playing by those standards that give them credibility.

It's also why, for instance, you don't tend to see them tweet trade rumours nobody else is.

Actually, concerning the Leafs, they don't really tweet ANY 'rumours' anymore.  They tweet things about to happen with one of McKenzie, Derger, LeBrun, Freige etc. being given the details to 'break' the pending deal.

That's the way Lou rolls.

Why be so critical and suspicious of a rumour in your neverending campaign to discredit?

Why not just happily discuss the possibility of the trade happening?  What could be added to Fowler to make the deal work?  You're no fun.  :(
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 09:51:58 AM
Why be so critical and suspicious of a rumour in your neverending campaign to discredit?

Because you posted it to the Media Rumours board. I was pointing out it didn't really fit the definition and what was being reported was almost certainly false. Now that it's been moved by the mods to the General Rumours and Speculation board, I'm happy to speculate on the general idea of trading for Fowler. Observe:

I think Fowler would be our #3 LHD. As such, I don't think he should be a major target of our one big remaining trade chip in JVR. Ideally JVR will be used to land a pick/prospect that projects out to potentially be a top pairing partner for Rielly or even a #1. Lindholm yes, Fowler nah.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: herman on June 22, 2016, 09:55:28 AM
Let's say we get Lindholm.

Do you run him with Rielly, or do you run him on the second pairing backing up Gardiner - Rielly?

I like the Gardiner - Rielly pairing, as Rielly really needs shot suppression help.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2016, 10:05:50 AM
Let's say we get Lindholm.

Do you run him with Rielly, or do you run him on the second pairing backing up Gardiner - Rielly?

I like the Gardiner - Rielly pairing, as Rielly really needs shot suppression help.

Lindholm had the 3rd best shot suppression number relative to teammates in the league last season among defencemen, so he could just as easily help with that.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: herman on June 22, 2016, 10:12:45 AM
Let's say we get Lindholm.

Do you run him with Rielly, or do you run him on the second pairing backing up Gardiner - Rielly?

I like the Gardiner - Rielly pairing, as Rielly really needs shot suppression help.

Lindholm had the 3rd best shot suppression number relative to teammates in the league last season among defencemen, so he could just as easily help with that.

Well I'm sold.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 22, 2016, 10:14:16 AM
Let's say we get Lindholm.

Do you run him with Rielly, or do you run him on the second pairing backing up Gardiner - Rielly?

I like the Gardiner - Rielly pairing, as Rielly really needs shot suppression help.

Lindholm had the 3rd best shot suppression number relative to teammates in the league last season among defencemen, so he could just as easily help with that.

Well I'm sold.

I'm thinking a better fit might be Minnesota for Dumba or Brodin.  I like Lindholm.  Just not sure that he is going to be the one that they move.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 10:20:52 AM
Why be so critical and suspicious of a rumour in your neverending campaign to discredit?

Because you posted it to the Media Rumours board. I was pointing out it didn't really fit the definition and what was being reported was almost certainly false. Now that it's been moved by the mods to the General Rumours and Speculation board, I'm happy to speculate on the general idea of trading for Fowler. Observe:

I think Fowler would be our #3 LHD. As such, I don't think he should be a major target of our one big remaining trade chip in JVR. Ideally JVR will be used to land a pick/prospect that projects out to potentially be a top pairing partner for Rielly or even a #1. Lindholm yes, Fowler nah.

Even Fowler + Ritchie for JVR?  Ya know, the big power forward many Leafs fans wanted drafted over Nylander?

At least we now know that he isn't Tyler Biggs.  ;)
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 10:24:48 AM
Even Fowler + Ritchie for JVR? Ya know, the big power forward many Leafs fans wanted drafted over Nylander?

Adding Ritchie does nothing in terms of potentially adding a top pairing defenseman. And he didn't do much as a rookie to lend much to the arguments those Leafs fans made in the past.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 22, 2016, 10:25:19 AM
Even Fowler + Ritchie for JVR?  Ya know, the big power forward many Leafs fans wanted drafted over Nylander?

At least we now know that he isn't Tyler Biggs.  ;)

Pretty much nobody here wanted Ritchie drafted. We were all terrified at the possibility.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2016, 10:26:46 AM
If we're targeting a prospect/young player in the Ducks' system as the 2nd piece in the deal, it should be Theodore.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 10:29:41 AM
If we're targeting a prospect/young player in the Ducks' system as the 2nd piece in the deal, it should be Theodore.

That's not a bad idea but I think the general feeling is that it's the presence of Theodore that makes Anaheim inclined to trade a defenseman in the first place.

What about Brandon Montour though? I only know his AHL numbers but they're pretty good and he's a RHD.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 10:32:32 AM
Even Fowler + Ritchie for JVR?  Ya know, the big power forward many Leafs fans wanted drafted over Nylander?

At least we now know that he isn't Tyler Biggs.  ;)

Pretty much nobody here wanted Ritchie drafted. We were all terrified at the possibility.

Oh good, I've found the right place then.  :)
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2016, 10:39:38 AM
That's not a bad idea but I think the general feeling is that it's the presence of Theodore that makes Anaheim inclined to trade a defenseman in the first place.

What about Brandon Montour though? I only know his AHL numbers but they're pretty good and he's a RHD.

Maybe, though I think a significant motivator for Anaheim in dealing a defenceman is that they'll almost certainly lose one of Lindholm, Fowler, Despres, or Vatanen in the expansion draft, and they'd prefer to get value for one of them now, instead. Obviously, they'd prefer to hold on to Theodore to fill that void, though.

Montour is definitely intriguing in terms of his offensive potential. I don't know much about him past that, though.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Big Daddy on June 22, 2016, 12:57:42 PM
JVR for Thoadore and Ritchie
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: nutman on June 22, 2016, 01:29:06 PM
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 22, 2016, 01:30:25 PM
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

I honestly think the next trade chip to fall is Bozak.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: nutman on June 22, 2016, 01:31:35 PM
I could live with that.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: No.92 on June 22, 2016, 02:25:28 PM
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another. 
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: No.92 on June 22, 2016, 02:27:52 PM
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

I honestly think the next trade chip to fall is Bozak.

While I'd hate to see him go, I could live with that.  Or move him or Kadri to the wing.  I think Kadri to the wing would be a better move IMO.  He's not as good of a playmaker as Bozak and that's what you want in an offensive center. 

How about we get rid of Lupul's contract first?  If Lupul could somehow regain his form, he could be quite useful in the top 9. 
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2016, 02:34:31 PM
I hope we don't deal JVR, I think he is a keeper.

The issue with JvR is that, while he's a bargain now, in two years, he'll be looking for a significant raise - probably into the $7M+ per year range. In the next years, realistically, the Leafs won't be contending for a Cup, and, when they are approaching that stage, they'll need the cap space for more important pieces than a goal scoring winger. He's at his most valuable in terms of a trade piece right now, while his value to the team is approaching it's lowest.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 02:36:18 PM
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 22, 2016, 02:45:32 PM

How about we get rid of Lupul's contract first?  If Lupul could somehow regain his form, he could be quite useful in the top 9.

Right now you've got Sosh, Hyman, Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kadri, Komarov and, as of now, Bozak and JVR. One of the kids might start on the 4th line but realistically the top 9 is more or less full.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: mr grieves on June 22, 2016, 02:46:49 PM
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize that the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.

Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.

Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: bustaheims on June 22, 2016, 02:49:57 PM
Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.

Exactly. No one is talking about trying to get rid of him, but, rather, sacrifice a little of the present to help improve future. Short-term pain for long-term gain.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: RedLeaf on June 22, 2016, 03:59:41 PM
Agreed.  Why would you get rid of a proven commodity at the prime of his career for potentially unknowns.  Sure we need a 1A or 1B defenseman to go with Rielly but try to figure out another way.  He's our 1st line winger and if you get rid of him then you'll be trying to fill that 1st line winger position now.  I would be totally fine if we can bring in some less flashy, defensive defencemen from the Marlies or free agency.  We already have our flashy, mobile defensemen in Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, and maybe Carrick.  We don't need another.

A lot of it has to do with money. Right now JVR is a great bargain but in two years' time he's probably going to be looking for a huge contract extension that probably won't make sense for the Leafs to sign if, the year after, they have to sign Matthews and Marner to extensions.

So the question becomes do you trade JVR now when his value is higher than it will be then? Or do you trade him in two years? Or let him walk? Being as most people don't think the Leafs are going to be terribly competitive over the next two years, what's the point in having him on the wing? Especially when so many people are high on Marner eventually being the #1 wing.

Trading a player doesn't mean you think they're not good. Just that you realize that the limitations of the salary cap and know that trading good players is how you bring back high level assets. Phil Kessel was a really good player when Boston decided to trade him but they did pretty well by it.

Yeah, in terms of his value/contract and age, and the organization's positional strengths, he's really the best candidate to move for a significant blueline upgrade. It's a compliment to him.

You could trade him straight up, for....oh... I dunno...Luke Schenn?
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Tigger on June 24, 2016, 07:57:13 AM
You could trade him straight up, for....oh... I dunno...Luke Schenn?

I'm sure LA would love to have him, but straight up? Maybe they want a sweetener added for the soon to be ufa?
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 24, 2016, 10:05:47 AM
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: LuncheonMeat on June 24, 2016, 12:19:38 PM

I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: Nik on June 24, 2016, 12:26:27 PM
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: LuncheonMeat on June 24, 2016, 12:51:32 PM
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.

I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 24, 2016, 12:55:04 PM
I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.

I imagine he's more of a future replacement for Markov, or someone who can push Markov down to the 2nd pairing where he better belongs. I don't think those discussions really have anything to do with Subban.
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: TBLeafer on June 24, 2016, 12:55:08 PM
I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I think the idea is that Fowler would be seen as a Subban replacement of sorts. Because otherwise it probably wouldn't make a ton of sense to pay what the Ducks are probably asking for Fowler so he can be your #2 LHD.

I figured, it's just hard to think about replacing your franchise, 1st pairing, Norris trophy-winning defenceman with Cam Fowler. I think Habs fans would all lose their collective minds.

I think that depends on what went along with Fowler. 
Title: Re: Randy Carlyle After JVR for Fowler +?
Post by: KW Sluggo on June 24, 2016, 01:45:37 PM

I'm not sure how that fuels Subban speculation. If the Ducks add Jakob Silfverberg and a couple of 1st-round picks, maybe that fuels speculation.

I don't think the speculation is with respect to Subban being part of a trade to Anaheim for Fowler.

Rather I believe the theory is that if Montreal is looking for a defence man such as Fowler, it is perhaps simply because they have traded Subban away in another transaction thereby creating the need to replace him.