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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Media Rumours => Topic started by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 02:12:03 PM

Title: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 02:12:03 PM
You knew it was gonna happen.  Keep going Arizona.  Not even close.


Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 09, 2016, 02:22:29 PM

NYT Article on Matthews (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/sports/hockey/auston-matthews-nhls-top-prospect-is-comfortable-on-ice-and-under-heat.html?ribbon-ad-idx=5&rref=sports/hockey&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=Hockey&pgtype=article)

Quote
Asked if the Leafs would possibly trade away the top pick, Lamoriello chuckled, adding, “I don’t think you’ll see that.”
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Peter D. on June 09, 2016, 02:28:27 PM
Wow, what a package.

In turn, we'll take those assets and throw in Nylander and that should get us McDavid.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 09, 2016, 02:30:06 PM
Probably being pushed by Bettman and Co.

I start to listen when I hear they're offering #7, #20, OEL, Strome, and, Domi. Anything less and I hang up the phone!

The players picked at #7 and #20 may not amount to anything, so, we have to get OEL, Strome, and Domi minimum, JMHO.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 02:33:01 PM
Probably being pushed by Bettman and Co.

I start to listen when I hear they're offering #7, #20, OLE, Strome, and, Domi. Anything less and I hang up the phone!

The players picked at #7 and #20 may not amount to anything, so, we have to get OLE, Strome, and Domi minimum, JMHO.

OLE

Habs fan?  (yes I'm that guy.  ;))
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 09, 2016, 02:36:37 PM
This thread should be titled "Freelance sports writer nobody ever heard of needs RTs".
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 09, 2016, 02:56:18 PM
Probably being pushed by Bettman and Co.

I start to listen when I hear they're offering #7, #20, OLE, Strome, and, Domi. Anything less and I hang up the phone!

The players picked at #7 and #20 may not amount to anything, so, we have to get OLE, Strome, and Domi minimum, JMHO.

OLE

Habs fan?  (yes I'm that guy.  ;))

Fixed it in my OP!  LOL
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: bustaheims on June 09, 2016, 02:58:18 PM
This thread should be titled "Freelance sports writer nobody ever heard of needs RTs".

Basically. It's 100% "I'm going to make something up about a player and a team that fans and media have connected for months, but, really, I have no actual insight or connections."
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 03:05:32 PM
Its just gonna get crazier after the SCF so we might as well have a thread anyway.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 09, 2016, 03:09:40 PM

I doubt it gets much crazier. With Arizona already essentially saying they're not going to include OEL and the famously tight-lipped Lamoriello basically ruling out the idea of trading the pick as per that NYT quote then really the only thing we're likely to see between here and now are things like this, people who aren't all that reliable reporting unrealistic scenarios.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 03:11:43 PM

I doubt it gets much crazier. With Arizona already essentially saying they're not going to include OEL and the famously tight-lipped Lamoriello basically ruling out the idea of trading the pick as per that NYT quote then really the only thing we're likely to see between here and now are things like this, people who aren't all that reliable reporting unrealistic scenarios.

We discount anything from Eklund here too, right?
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: bustaheims on June 09, 2016, 03:21:36 PM
Its just gonna get crazier after the SCF so we might as well have a thread anyway.

To discuss all the stuff we already know is garbage?
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 03:29:52 PM
Its just gonna get crazier after the SCF so we might as well have a thread anyway.

To discuss all the stuff we already know is garbage?

Or just have a laugh at the joke of offers that come in with none of them being any good.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: caveman on June 09, 2016, 03:45:29 PM
...the rumoured offers...the fantasy offers..the offers made up for clickbait...the real offers won't be made public...
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Tigger on June 09, 2016, 03:52:53 PM

I doubt it gets much crazier. With Arizona already essentially saying they're not going to include OEL and the famously tight-lipped Lamoriello basically ruling out the idea of trading the pick as per that NYT quote then really the only thing we're likely to see between here and now are things like this, people who aren't all that reliable reporting unrealistic scenarios.

We discount anything from Eklund here too, right?

Who's Eklund?
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: TBLeafer on June 09, 2016, 04:34:35 PM

I doubt it gets much crazier. With Arizona already essentially saying they're not going to include OEL and the famously tight-lipped Lamoriello basically ruling out the idea of trading the pick as per that NYT quote then really the only thing we're likely to see between here and now are things like this, people who aren't all that reliable reporting unrealistic scenarios.

We discount anything from Eklund here too, right?

Who's Eklund?
Perfect. :)
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 09, 2016, 05:11:03 PM
I think the Internet would be a lot different if you had to put in a nickel into a slot before you could post something.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Tigger on June 09, 2016, 05:27:05 PM
My Penfield mood organ takes nickels, though I've written 'Stamkos' in sharpie by setting 481 and it seems to just eat my nickels...
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: KadriFan on June 09, 2016, 05:32:06 PM
I wonder what they have or will offer.   You know there gonna try.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Bender on June 09, 2016, 09:21:04 PM

I doubt it gets much crazier. With Arizona already essentially saying they're not going to include OEL and the famously tight-lipped Lamoriello basically ruling out the idea of trading the pick as per that NYT quote then really the only thing we're likely to see between here and now are things like this, people who aren't all that reliable reporting unrealistic scenarios.

We discount anything from Eklund here too, right?

Who's Eklund?
I think he means Peklund.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Zee on June 10, 2016, 08:33:03 AM
Has a team EVER traded from the #1 pick down to the #7 pick?  I can't see it happening.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Highlander on June 10, 2016, 10:49:07 AM
I think the Internet would be a lot different if you had to put in a nickel into a slot before you could post something.

Reminds me of Chris Rocks hilarious take on crime if bullets cost $5,000 a pop.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: sneakyray on June 10, 2016, 10:50:32 AM
Has a team EVER traded from the #1 pick down to the #7 pick?  I can't see it happening.

They would literally have to offer double the rumored offer to even get consideration.  They would have to gut their organization to even get the leafs to listen.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Bullfrog on June 10, 2016, 10:57:45 AM
Has a team EVER traded from the #1 pick down to the #7 pick?  I can't see it happening.

Nor can I. Though incredibly unlikely, any trade of the no.1 pick would involve the no.2 or 3 pick.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 10, 2016, 02:22:45 PM
I think the Internet would be a lot different if you had to put in a nickel into a slot before you could post something.

Reminds me of Chris Rocks hilarious take on crime if bullets cost $5,000 a pop.

They'd have to then increase the prices on knives, bats, and, crowbars!  LOL
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: jdh1 on June 11, 2016, 01:19:09 PM
I'm sure that the Leafs brass is talking over the potential of Matthews,what his ceiling is,asking Hunter if he's got 100 point per season capabilities in his future.

Or trading him for a boatload of prospects that Arizona has,that may want to play in TO for the long term.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Bill_Berg on June 11, 2016, 01:58:49 PM
I'm sure that the Leafs brass is talking over the potential of Matthews,what his ceiling is,asking Hunter if he's got 100 point per season capabilities in his future.

Or trading him for a boatload of prospects that Arizona has,that may want to play in TO for the long term.

I considered for a little while what it would be like if Matthews jumped ship at the first opportunity to become a UFA and sign with Arizona, but that just doesn't seem to happen often, if ever, and if it becomes a trend, we'll just replace Matthews with McDavid.

I'm expecting Matthews will be a career Leaf and McDavid a career Oiler. Or something close to that.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 11, 2016, 02:51:04 PM
I'm sure that the Leafs brass is talking over the potential of Matthews,what his ceiling is,asking Hunter if he's got 100 point per season capabilities in his future.

Or trading him for a boatload of prospects that Arizona has,that may want to play in TO for the long term.

I considered for a little while what it would be like if Matthews jumped ship at the first opportunity to become a UFA and sign with Arizona, but that just doesn't seem to happen often, if ever, and if it becomes a trend, we'll just replace Matthews with McDavid.

I'm expecting Matthews will be a career Leaf and McDavid a career Oiler. Or something close to that.

I wouldn't be surprised if Matthews headed home at his first opportunity.  I'd put more money on McDavid staying put with the Oilers than Matthews remaining a career long Leaf.  JMHO.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Bonsixx on June 11, 2016, 02:58:40 PM
I'd be surprised if the Coyotes are still in Arizona by the time Matthews is UFA-eligible.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 11, 2016, 03:28:36 PM
I'd be surprised if the Coyotes are still in Arizona by the time Matthews is UFA-eligible.

Bettman wants to keep them there at all costs.  Interesting point though.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Highlander on June 11, 2016, 07:04:43 PM
Scottdale/Phoenix is growing at a fantastic rate, the North is finished, as we do know that Winter is coming! The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.
I don't see the area letting go of the team as people in AZ seam to see the long term vision.

When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.  As there are close to a million visitors in Vegas on any given day, you can see this beautiful new arena succeeding as more and more people who go to Vegas are not gamblers but people like you and me (unless you have a problem) and just want to be entertained.
Seeing the Leafs play in Vegas would be a gas, just like it is in Tampa or AZ.   
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 11, 2016, 08:21:53 PM
The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.

The most money in the country is in New York. Then LA. Then Chicago. Then Washington. I don't think Phoenix's economy would be on a top 10 list of US cities.


When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.

People don't realize that because it isn't true. It's nowhere close to being true. The entire population of the state of Nevada is only 2.8 million.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 11, 2016, 09:13:22 PM
Scottdale/Phoenix is growing at a fantastic rate, the North is finished, as we do know that Winter is coming! The team will grow into the market, the amount of money in the area is probably the highest in the country and despite years of negative results, I can attest that Gila is pretty much full when I go to the games and the resto's and restaurants in the area are packed before the games. Doesn't hurt that the Cardinals play right next door.
I don't see the area letting go of the team as people in AZ seam to see the long term vision.

When we look at Vegas most people don't realize that the population is reaching close to 5 million and most of these folks are from the N.E. States and love hockey.  As there are close to a million visitors in Vegas on any given day, you can see this beautiful new arena succeeding as more and more people who go to Vegas are not gamblers but people like you and me (unless you have a problem) and just want to be entertained.
Seeing the Leafs play in Vegas would be a gas, just like it is in Tampa or AZ.

Highlander, do they ever do cross sport promotions?  So if you buy a ticket to the Cardinals game on Sunday, you get a ticket to the Coyotes on Monday, or something along those lines, or vice versa?
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Highlander on June 12, 2016, 09:05:38 AM
Nik is right my figures are off, but there are 40 million visitors a year and the 2.9 million are mostly located in the Vegas area.
Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

I would love to go to a Cardinals game but I ususally arrive as the season is winding down and as AZ are usually at the top of the heap, it is hard to get tickets.  However the Phoenix Open is a total zoo, with up to 100K people out on the course on an one day.  People are dressed like normal golf fans, but you do see a host of folks in Business suites, Women in hooker gear or evening wear, worth at least one visit in your life.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: bustaheims on June 12, 2016, 10:45:01 AM
Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

Phoenix ranks 59th in income per capita. Scottsdale isn't in the top 200. Maricopa County ranks 604th in terms of income per capita by county.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Highlander on June 12, 2016, 11:18:36 AM
Come down and visit and get your own impression, I have been all over the U.S and I never have seen such a display of wealth in my life and this includes West Palm Beach and other places

I defer to your stats though!
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 12, 2016, 12:01:10 PM
Your perceptions of wealth are also correct based upon overall populations of 10 Million in New York. Scottsdale on the other side of the coin is a more concentrated wealth, every other car is a Bimmer, a Merc, Range Rover, Bentley, a host of Corvettes and you probably see more Ferrraris in a day than in you would in Toronto in a year, so the concentration of wealth is immense.

Phoenix ranks 59th in income per capita. Scottsdale isn't in the top 200. Maricopa County ranks 604th in terms of income per capita by county.

In fairness to Highlander, much like in Texas there are A LOT of people from other places/countries who have second homes in the area, I wonder how they figure into those numbers if it's not their primary residence.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: KadriFan on June 12, 2016, 12:40:05 PM
Come down and visit and get your own impression, I have been all over the U.S and I never have seen such a display of wealth in my life and this includes West Palm Beach and other places

I defer to your stats though!

Tombstone and the Grand Canyon are definitely on my bucket list 👍
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: bustaheims on June 12, 2016, 01:00:57 PM
In fairness to Highlander, much like in Texas there are A LOT of people from other places/countries who have second homes in the area, I wonder how they figure into those numbers if it's not their primary residence.

That's a valid question, though I also question the extent that segment of the market would support the Coyotes.

My guess is their impact on the figures is minimal, as they're based on where people filed their tax returns. I imagine they'd have a stronger influence on observational impressions, though.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2016, 03:46:26 PM

Either way, it costs 50 bucks to go to a game in most places in the States so the Ferrari and Rover crowd isn't the biggest deal in the world if they're not hockey fans for the most part.

The issue is really going to be can you convince people to go to the games and, if not, can you convince them to watch them at home. Phoenix has been a fast growing market for years now and the answer to both questions seems to be a resounding no. While some of that can be blamed on putting the arena in Glendale and some can be blamed on how generally bad the Coyotes have been I think that at the very least the Coyotes are on their last owner who'll be interested in keeping the team where they are.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: herman on June 12, 2016, 04:02:38 PM
Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2016, 04:20:28 PM
Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.

Being as the reports are that the Vegas expansion is going to happen in the next week or so that seems like a safe bet. I agree with you that buying the Coyotes might be a better option(although the expansion draft rules seem pretty friendly this time around) but I'd guess the NHL would prefer everyone staying where they are with Phoenix to Seattle and Carolina to Quebec City as back-up plans.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: herman on June 12, 2016, 07:24:27 PM
Which one will happen first?
A) expansion to Las Vegas
B) Arizona sold
C) Carolina sold

If I were the Vegas group, I might be more interested in picking up the Coyotes than building from the ground up.

Being as the reports are that the Vegas expansion is going to happen in the next week or so that seems like a safe bet. I agree with you that buying the Coyotes might be a better option(although the expansion draft rules seem pretty friendly this time around) but I'd guess the NHL would prefer everyone staying where they are with Phoenix to Seattle and Carolina to Quebec City as back-up plans.

Thanks for the update, Nik.

Looks like the NHL is more keen to make money via expansion than sorting out its existing problems with troubled ownership.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Tigger on June 12, 2016, 07:55:18 PM
It might be a tire fire team to start with, but at least with expansion, I've read they'll get what, 4 straight lottery picks?
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2016, 08:03:41 PM
Thanks for the update, Nik.

Looks like the NHL is more keen to make money via expansion than sorting out its existing problems with troubled ownership.

I think it was Tigger who pointed out that Karmanos hasn't really made serious efforts to sell the team(or rather that he'd put such a high valuation/weird restrictions on his asking price) that there's really no way to know what's going on with the ownership situation in Carolina outside of Karmanos and his kids fighting about money and/or who might be interested in owning the team aside from him.

Or to sum it up, while things definitely look bad for Karmanos it might be a little premature to say the situation in Carolina is bad to the point of needing imminent solving.

Now off to cash my check from the NHL.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 12, 2016, 09:03:49 PM
Knowing what we know now about the Leafs drafting #1 this season and you have a chance to re-pick last years draft, do you take Hanafin?

Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Mr. Leaf on June 12, 2016, 09:06:14 PM
Knowing what we know now about the Leafs drafting #1 this season and you have a chance to re-pick last years draft, do you take Hanafin?
No way, no how.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2016, 09:12:40 PM

I can't pretend I watched much of Hanifin this year but I think that if the Leafs thought that Hanifin was the sort of defenseman who was a safe bet to be a #1 they'd have taken him regardless.

So personally, no.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Tigger on June 12, 2016, 09:15:26 PM
I thought Hanafin looked good at the WC, probably the most I saw of him all year, but no, with the year Marner just had I'm ok with it. Apparently Babcock wanted him, so there's that.
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 12, 2016, 09:23:21 PM

I can't pretend I watched much of Hanifin this year but I think that if the Leafs thought that Hanifin was the sort of defenseman who was a safe bet to be a #1 they'd have taken him regardless.

So personally, no.

That's kinda how I see it too, but I think there was a lot of talk at least externally that the Leafs still need more depth at centre ice. If you know you have Matthews coming, I wonder if Babcock's argument for Hanafin becomes a little more compelling.

I should add that Marner has been lights out and I'm very excited to have him coming, just thought it was an idea worth airing.

Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Nik on June 12, 2016, 09:31:07 PM
I should add that Marner has been lights out and I'm very excited to have him coming, just thought it was an idea worth airing.

No I agree. To be honest I'm like you where I'm very excited about Marner but I still had to really think about your question.

I guess the way I see things is if we'd done that, taken Hanifin instead of Marner, we'd sort of be having the same conversation about our wing prospects as we are now about our defensemen. Nielsen, Dermott, Carrick, Zaitsev(sort of) and Valiev aren't a great group but they're not much behind Hyman, Sosh, Kapanen, Dzierkals, Timashov and various others.

If, as a lot of people suspect, the Leafs take a Defenseman with either Pittsburgh's 1st or their 2nd I'd say they're roughly as strong at both areas(Marner excluded).
Title: Re: Arizona Starts Bidding for the Rights to Draft Matthews
Post by: Al14 on June 15, 2016, 03:51:16 PM
Knowing what we know now about the Leafs drafting #1 this season and you have a chance to re-pick last years draft, do you take Hanafin?
No way, no how.

X2!