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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: RedLeaf on August 13, 2014, 01:45:37 PM

Title: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: RedLeaf on August 13, 2014, 01:45:37 PM
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/13/first-3-players-chosen-for-iconic-maple-leafs-monument-outside-acc


Which three will they be?  One is deceased? Barilko?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 13, 2014, 02:54:56 PM
If they group them according to each era, then they'd have to include King Clancy (earliest Leaf era), the '40's either Kennedy or Broda, and possibly Barilko (who'll represent the '50's era).

For the '60's, maybe Keon or Armstrong, Horton, Bower. Possibly Mahovlich.

For the modern eras, Sittler, Salming, and Sundin.

A statue honouring the "the colonel", the late Conn Smythe should also be included.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Boston Leaf on August 13, 2014, 03:39:04 PM
Clancy, Keon, Salming
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 13, 2014, 04:08:17 PM
In case you missed it, LHF posted this in the media thread today:

LOL...... they announced there's gonna be a statue in front of the ACC representing Leafs from all eras... Sun comments are hysterical, the sort of thing I'd expect to read here:
"Modern day one will be an orange cone"
"The same orange cone we're currently paying 7 million a season?"
"Doesn't matter, it's still gonna be moving faster than any current Leaf"

There's almost nothing MLSE does that can't be made into pretty good low comedy.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on August 13, 2014, 05:19:04 PM

I think if they're going to pluck someone from the earliest days of the franchise, or any era really, they should primarily focus on guys who were primarily Maple Leafs. So someone like Conacher or Bailey instead of Clancy.

Likewise, I'd hope they focused more on greatness than on a player's particular place within the franchise's mythology.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on August 13, 2014, 05:24:49 PM
Yes the Conacher name is huge in Leaf lore. Bower, Horten, Keon, Sittler, Salming, Wendal, Sundin, Gilmour and of course we cannot forget the immortal Inge Hammerstrom.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 14, 2014, 09:59:37 AM
"The Toronto Maple Leafs announced on Thursday that Hall of Fame player Ted Kennedy, along with two other Leaf legends to be named next month, will be the first to be honoured with bronze statues on what the club will call 'Legends Row' in front of the Air Canada Centre."  http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=459390

Couldn't pick a better player to be announced first IMO.  Crazy how close he was to being a Hab before he signed with the Leafs while still in High School.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on August 14, 2014, 02:03:32 PM
Yes the Conacher name is huge in Leaf lore. Bower, Horten, Keon, Sittler, Salming, Wendal, Sundin, Gilmour and of course we cannot forget the immortal Inge Hammerstrom.

he can't be that immortal, you spelled it wrong. Hammarstrom probably wouldn't be offended though.

I like the choice of Kennedy first. But they gotta go with Sittler from the modern era. As much as I love Doug Gilmour, Sittler embodies Leafdom more. And I really thought they'd go back farther in history than Kennedy for the first one. Weird.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on August 14, 2014, 02:30:05 PM
is this a few a year? How many are intended?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 14, 2014, 04:05:56 PM
Yes the Conacher name is huge in Leaf lore. Bower, Horten, Keon, Sittler, Salming, Wendal, Sundin, Gilmour and of course we cannot forget the immortal Inge Hammerstrom.

he can't be that immortal, you spelled it wrong. Hammarstrom probably wouldn't be offended though.

I like the choice of Kennedy first. But they gotta go with Sittler from the modern era. As much as I love Doug Gilmour, Sittler embodies Leafdom more. And I really thought they'd go back farther in history than Kennedy for the first one. Weird.


That would have had to be King Clancy or Charlie Conacher for the earliest era.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on August 14, 2014, 04:55:46 PM
Hap Day. Syl Apps. Turk Broda. Johnny Bower. Red Horner. King Clancy. For the 'old days'

Mid days? Keon, Armstrong, Kennedy (as chosen!), Salming. Sentimentally Horton, although he played for Buffalo when he died.

Nowadays? Sittler.  Maybe Sundin. Maybe Gilmour.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 14, 2014, 05:56:49 PM
is this a few a year? How many are intended?

This is a rendering of what it's going to look like:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvASivnIAAARfli.jpg)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: lamajama on August 15, 2014, 12:14:45 PM
Puckdaddy asked if the players are "fleeing the team" and a twitterer piped up asking if they would "stop building it with 20% left to go"....made me laugh. Well cry too but...
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Arn on August 18, 2014, 03:33:23 PM
Ill be disappointed if Jay McClement doesn't get a place
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on August 18, 2014, 03:37:38 PM
Ill be disappointed if Jay McClement doesn't get a place

And on the plus side, if you decide to turn him into a statue you can just leave the hands as is.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Bullfrog on August 18, 2014, 04:40:20 PM
Hap Day. Syl Apps. Turk Broda. Johnny Bower. Red Horner. King Clancy. For the 'old days'

Mid days? Keon, Armstrong, Kennedy (as chosen!), Salming. Sentimentally Horton, although he played for Buffalo when he died.

Nowadays? Sittler.  Maybe Sundin. Maybe Gilmour.

Sundin should be a given, not a maybe.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 18, 2014, 06:35:30 PM
Sundin should be a given, not a maybe.

I'm tearing it down if Sundin isn't chosen at some point.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Darryl on August 18, 2014, 07:01:47 PM
Mike Craig, Tom Kurvers and Peter Ing.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on August 18, 2014, 07:38:16 PM
Sundin should be a given, not a maybe.

Nah. The team's all-time leader in goals and points shouldn't be a slam dunk. Not at all.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Green Leaf on August 29, 2014, 02:23:11 PM
Sundin should be a given, not a maybe.

I'm tearing it down if Sundin isn't chosen at some point.

The beer drinking people have spoken...

http://www.ichill.ca/articles/mats-sundin-voted-greatest-maple-leaf-ever (http://www.ichill.ca/articles/mats-sundin-voted-greatest-maple-leaf-ever)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on August 29, 2014, 04:45:20 PM
Hap Day. Syl Apps. Turk Broda. Johnny Bower. Red Horner. King Clancy. For the 'old days'

Mid days? Keon, Armstrong, Kennedy (as chosen!), Salming. Sentimentally Horton, although he played for Buffalo when he died.

Nowadays? Sittler.  Maybe Sundin. Maybe Gilmour.

Sundin should be a given, not a maybe.

Sorry.....I just meant that Sittler should be first. Agreed, both Sundin and Gilmour deserve it too, but Sittler first. Sorry I didn't make myself more clear.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: moon111 on August 31, 2014, 10:51:57 AM
I'm thinking about selling brown paper bags with eye-holes cut out so people can have their picture taken at the monument.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Corn Flake on September 03, 2014, 02:04:16 PM
Aki Berg


but seriously, shouldn't it basically be ever player with a number in the rafters, plus Keon?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 03, 2014, 03:08:42 PM
but seriously, shouldn't it basically be ever player with a number in the rafters, plus Keon?

That seems like it would be a lot of statues. Don't the Leafs have, like, 17 guys either honored or retired?

Beyond that are you really building a statue for Gilmour on the basis of five good seasons? Or Clark?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Palmateer29 on September 03, 2014, 03:55:59 PM
Hap Day. Syl Apps. Turk Broda. Johnny Bower. Red Horner. King Clancy. For the 'old days'

Mid days? Keon, Armstrong, Kennedy (as chosen!), Salming. Sentimentally Horton, although he played for Buffalo when he died.

Nowadays? Sittler.  Maybe Sundin. Maybe Gilmour.

Tim Horton also played 19 seasons with the Leafs. Much more deserving than Gilmour as far as I'm concerned. Of course I love Gilmour and Clark but neither should be there.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 03, 2014, 04:27:25 PM
Beyond that are you really building a statue for Gilmour on the basis of five good seasons? Or Clark?

For something like this, I think lending a fair amount of weight to fan perception is fair. Part of the purpose of this structure is to pay homage to the most iconic figures in Leafs' history, and I think Clark and Gilmour would qualify there.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 03, 2014, 04:40:06 PM
For something like this, I think lending a fair amount of weight to fan perception is fair. Part of the purpose of this structure is to pay homage to the most iconic figures in Leafs' history, and I think Clark and Gilmour would qualify there.

I think that if you're building a permanent monument, for whatever reason, you probably want to avoid making too many decisions that would betray a recency bias. Those guys are iconic to fans of a certain age, sure, but that may be less of a testament to them than it is to their circumstances.

But, like you say, if the purpose is to celebrate the Leafs' own iconography rather than, say, greatness then there's an argument for their inclusion. If that's the purpose, though, I feel like there's probably less of an argument for the statues in the first place.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 04, 2014, 07:56:53 AM
Judging from the rendering of the site, it looks like they'll be picking 10 players, 9 skaters and a goalie. The goalie is almost definitely Bower, so that leaves 9 skaters:

Kennedy, Sundin, Sittler, Keon, Salming, Horton, Apps

Of those guys I only ever saw Sundin play, but using what I know/what I've read I'd say those 7 are pretty much locks. That leaves room for 2 more skaters. Gilmour and Clark are in the conversation but honestly I think they'd only get picked if the team wanted some more modern players.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Bullfrog on September 04, 2014, 01:31:36 PM
Someone like Mahovlich should probably be there before Clark or Gilmour.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 04, 2014, 01:56:51 PM
Someone like Mahovlich should probably be there before Clark or Gilmour.


The Big M probably should.  He would be representing the '60's era Leafs.
I consider him as having an outside chance of being chosen.

Not only was Mahovlich called the closest thing to a superstar the Leafs had in those days, he was also the only Leaf who could lift the fans out of their
seats each and everytime he streaked down the wing.  He had a style, elan, unlike too many players of his era.  Call him unique plus a great sharp shooter on ice.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 04, 2014, 02:10:58 PM
Judging from the rendering of the site, it looks like they'll be picking 10 players, 9 skaters and a goalie. The goalie is almost definitely Bower, so that leaves 9 skaters:

Kennedy, Sundin, Sittler, Keon, Salming, Horton, Apps

Of those guys I only ever saw Sundin play, but using what I know/what I've read I'd say those 7 are pretty much locks. That leaves room for 2 more skaters. Gilmour and Clark are in the conversation but honestly I think they'd only get picked if the team wanted some more modern players.

They said they'd be leaving a spot blank for future greats though, right? Anyways, those 8 would be my choices as well with Conacher and Mahovlich as the two next guys.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Joe S. on September 04, 2014, 02:30:58 PM
They should have a statue of Roberts whispering into Simmons ear.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 04, 2014, 02:31:10 PM
They said they'd be leaving a spot blank for future greats though, right?

They better get Kessel's cheeks right.

Anyways, those 8 would be my choices as well with Conacher and Mahovlich as the two next guys.

Yeah, these guys would be the next two to come up in the Best Leafs conversation. So again it just depends on if they want more than 1 player there who has played for the team in the past 25 years.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 06, 2014, 12:00:33 PM
mirtle: Bower and Sittler are the Leafs next two statutes. Good choices. Seven to go!

No surprises there. I think we all knew they'd both be part of it.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: seahawk on September 06, 2014, 12:22:58 PM
mirtle: Bower and Sittler are the Leafs next two statutes. Good choices. Seven to go!

No surprises there. I think we all knew they'd both be part of it.

Just got a BBM update on the Leafs channel confirming this. Can't argue with any of those choices.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 06, 2014, 02:45:12 PM
Excellent!
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Dappleganger on September 06, 2014, 02:50:55 PM
I believe these are going to be the players getting statues. I was walking by the statue site yesterday and this was on the side of the work trailer.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUUG-zmgbOU&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 06, 2014, 03:17:21 PM
I believe these are going to be the players getting statues. I was walking by the statue site yesterday and this was on the side of the work trailer.

They seem to want to keep these announcements a secret so I doubt they'd just put them up like that. Also, yeah no way Phaneuf gets a statue any time soon, unless it's of him hoisting the Cup.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Dappleganger on September 06, 2014, 03:41:29 PM
I believe these are going to be the players getting statues. I was walking by the statue site yesterday and this was on the side of the work trailer.

They seem to want to keep these announcements a secret so I doubt they'd just put them up like that. Also, yeah no way Phaneuf gets a statue any time soon, unless it's of him hoisting the Cup.

Yeah, Phaneuf does stick out like a sore thumb.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Deebo on September 06, 2014, 03:53:04 PM
Also, yeah no way Phaneuf gets a statue any time soon, unless it's of him hoisting the Cup.

So no way then.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: LittleHockeyFan on September 06, 2014, 07:27:50 PM
mirtle: Bower and Sittler are the Leafs next two statutes. Good choices. Seven to go!



perfect! My two first choices after/along with Kennedy. Imagine that, the MLSE did something right!
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 06, 2014, 08:22:52 PM
This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on September 07, 2014, 04:24:46 AM
This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.


Why?  In fact, this is long overdue. 

My idea would have been to re-create action 'scenes'/'highlights' of specific events in Leaf history (such as that photo of a 'flying' Barilko scoring the '51 Cup-winning goal or Bower in action stopping a shot in a Cup playoff game, etcetera).  Perhaps with some holographic effects or whatever, all these 'scenes' scattered throughout various places in the ACC, or, housed in a "Legends Moments" section.  All of this would most surely have cost a lot more money.

I think the monuments thing is an excellent way to finally acknowledge the past and to have it housed in it's appropriate place.  No need for too many ceremonies nor banners hanging everywhere.  Also a great way to remind present Leaf players of the importance and meaning of the blue & white jersey they wear.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 07, 2014, 08:58:31 AM
This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.


Why?

Because it does nothing for me and a lot of other people.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Bullfrog on September 07, 2014, 09:05:13 AM
That's fair. But using the same argument, I'm sure you can understand that it does a lot for a lot of people. It's a tribute to their past heroes. It reminds people that, despite the lack of recent success, there were glory days in the past and there may be in the future.

Aside from that, it'll probably be a wonderful piece of public art.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 07, 2014, 10:48:01 AM
Aside from that, it'll probably be a wonderful piece of public art.

Also, it will add some character to what is a fairly mundane area outside the arena.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Leafs71 on September 07, 2014, 11:36:24 AM
I honestly wonder if this monument idea would have even have been brought up if the Leafs had enjoyed some measure of success post-lockout.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 07, 2014, 12:37:58 PM
Long overdue, if only for Johnny Bower to see this in his lifetime. He is truly one of the greats of all time and a very classy man.  A true Leaf thru and thru!
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 07, 2014, 02:51:33 PM
This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.

How much money do you think these are going to cost? They'll probably run the equivalent of the salary of one low-level scout or lowering the ticket cost to one game by two dollars.

Even if they spent a million dollars on them, which seems crazy, that would only lower the cost of an individual ticket by 1.25.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 07, 2014, 04:44:52 PM
This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.

How much money do you think these are going to cost? They'll probably run the equivalent of the salary of one low-level scout or lowering the ticket cost to one game by two dollars.

Even if they spent a million dollars on them, which seems crazy, that would only lower the cost of an individual ticket by 1.25.

So, because it might not amount to a whole lot, we should just go waste the money on something stupid?   ::)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Bullfrog on September 07, 2014, 04:50:32 PM
So, because it might not amount to a whole lot, we should just go waste the money on something stupid?   ::)

You shouldn't if you figure it's a waste and something stupid; which I'm guessing most do not.

In the overall scheme of MLSE's budget, I doubt it's a tremendous amount of money and I doubt there would be any correlation with ticket prices.

I suspect something like this costs in the neighborhood of $250K - 300k when you factor in design, permits, and fabrication + marketing, design procurement, etc.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on September 07, 2014, 04:55:57 PM
I think it's a good idea, besides, MLSE can spend their money on the Leafs any way they want, it's great for the fans and even young, future fans.

It'll light Bower's face up and immortalize him at the ACC. Kennedy and Sittler are great choices also.

Did they say anything about coaches? Anyway, it will be awesome for me to see Mats Sundin out front of the complex. I'm a pretty big Clark fan, but he's not as much of a shoe-in as some think, Gilmour even less so IMO.

I think CTB's list is pretty right on as well.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 07, 2014, 05:01:19 PM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 07, 2014, 05:11:06 PM
Training camp really can't start soon enough.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 07, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
So, because it might not amount to a whole lot, we should just go waste the money on something stupid?   ::)

I imagine you're part of a very small minority that sees this monument as a waste of money or as something stupid. Also, in terms of wasting money on something stupid, this monument is roughly the equivalent of you or I buying a chocolate bar. It's such an insignificant amount relative to MLSE's finances that it's not worth the handwringing. The money being spent on this has absolutely no real impact on anything related to the team on the ice or the cost of tickets to see them. If this was part of a string of similarly non-impactful spending decisions, that would be one thing, but, as an individual thing, it's really not worth getting upset about.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 07, 2014, 05:30:54 PM
So, because it might not amount to a whole lot, we should just go waste the money on something stupid?   ::)

Well, first of all, "we" aren't doing anything. It's not your or my money being spent. Regardless, my point was that it's not a significant enough amount of money for the likes of MLSE that it would preclude them from doing anything else. Presenting it as a choice they're making at the expense of anything else to improve the on-ice product or fan experience doesn't really hold up to scrutiny.

With that said, I'm not naive about why this is happening. They're not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts or because the guy who hangs Bon Jovi banners in the rafters suddenly started caring about the team's history. They're doing this, at least in part, because they would prefer fans debate Sittler vs. Sundin than sit around thinking about how much the team sucks. MLSE has an interest here and it's not about history or downtown revitalization.

So, yeah, if you're the kind of person who refers to ownership in the nominative plural then I can see why you'd be surprised when it seems like fans' interests and ownership's interest diverge but it's kind of old hat for me.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on September 07, 2014, 06:49:29 PM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?

Well, obviously not you, but young fans that are interested in the history of the Leafs. Not all people are the same, young or old...

Either way, I get it, you don't like this idea. I do.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on September 07, 2014, 08:32:31 PM
Pretty much equal parts horrific and horrifically hilarious:

Corey Ferguson ‏@coreyleafs  9h
@mirtle My sister lined up for 4 hours only to get Colton Orr's signature. You line up not knowing who is going to be signing by the end.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Potvin29 on September 07, 2014, 09:17:31 PM
Pretty much equal parts horrific and horrifically hilarious:

Corey Ferguson ‏@coreyleafs  9h
@mirtle My sister lined up for 4 hours only to get Colton Orr's signature. You line up not knowing who is going to be signing by the end.


Almost as much ice time as Orr got all of last season.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 08, 2014, 08:28:19 AM
Just to confirm something Nik said earlier, the Leafs will be leaving a spot open on the monument for a future Leafs great, so they'll only be naming 9 players for now.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Potvin29 on September 08, 2014, 09:27:43 AM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?

Then why build any monuments/statues/art structures in public anywhere?  Even if it doesn't enhance your enjoyment of an area it clearly does for others.  It's not public money being spent so I don't see what's to be upset over.  It's a drop in the bucket for MLSE and I doubt they would do it without some idea that it would improve the experience for fans in general.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hap_leaf on September 08, 2014, 09:58:59 AM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?

That is an interesting point actually.  At first glance it is for the fans.  But at the core level isn't this really for the players?  MLSE has chosen to do some things to recognize some of the older players whatever their agenda might be. 
Bower saved pucks with his bare face - on purpose - I think paying something back to him is great.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Bender on September 08, 2014, 10:08:13 AM
Has the season started yet?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 08, 2014, 10:32:21 AM
Avro, do not be so poor in spirit. This monument will be viewed be us as old men telling our grandkids about the goalie with no face mask, and the exploits of a young man with curly flowing hair whom scored 10 points in one game against the hated Bruins.
This will be something enjoyed for generations to come, lasting hopefully, hundreds of years.

The thing about the costs (however insignificant or significant) is that the price is actually paid out over these years, in the enjoyment, history and sentimentality that this  Monument will provide.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 12:55:26 PM
Well, first of all, "we" aren't doing anything.

 ::)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Joe S. on September 08, 2014, 12:59:13 PM
Well, first of all, "we" aren't doing anything.

 ::)

I'm not sure why that's you're reaction. He is 100% correct.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 12:59:37 PM
Also, in terms of wasting money on something stupid, this monument is roughly the equivalent of you or I buying a chocolate bar. It's such an insignificant amount relative to MLSE's finances that it's not worth the handwringing

Who care's if it's insignificant to MLSE?  It could be spent in a way such that's its hugely significant to the fans who support them.

And there's no handwringing going on...

The money being spent on this has absolutely no real impact on anything related to the team on the ice or the cost of tickets to see them.

Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

it's really not worth getting upset about.

I'm not getting upset at all.  I just think it's a stupid waste of money.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Corn Flake on September 08, 2014, 01:00:49 PM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2ljBRTkkGqs/U7Ldjtlo7TI/AAAAAAAALsg/xtYu0tKNReM/s1600/DebbieDowner.png)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 01:05:50 PM
Well, first of all, "we" aren't doing anything.

 ::)

I'm not sure why that's you're reaction. He is 100% correct.

Because it's an asinine comment.  It was a generalized "we" used frequently when having an affiliation with a group/team/whatever.  The only time it's necessary to explicitly say that is when some stupid troll is trying to troll.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 01:06:36 PM
Avro, do not be so poor in spirit.

I'm not poor in spirit.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 01:07:44 PM
it's great for the fans and even young, future fans

How?  How is this great for me?

... snip ...

 ::) What a useful post...
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 08, 2014, 01:19:32 PM
Because it's an asinine comment.  It was a generalized "we" used frequently when having an affiliation with a group/team/whatever.

But that's not a frequent use of "we". It's common for a fan to say "we won the game" to mean the players on the team and it's common for a fan to say "we signed Robidas" to put themselves with the team as a larger entity but I don't think most fans would say "we" when referring to decisions made by ownership that don't really affect the team. If Mike Illitch buys an expensive painting, do you think there are a lot of Red Wings or Tigers fans who would say "Look at all the money we're wasting! That money could be spent on scouts!"

This is MLSE spending their money on something that furthers their interest in the team and, I mean, for someone who's complaining as much about the ticket prices as you are, I really don't understand why you're reacting like this to the idea that MLSE is looking after themselves before you.   

The only time it's necessary to explicitly say that is when some stupid troll is trying to troll.

I appreciate that "troll" has become shorthand for "that person has an opinion I don't like" among the people who have problems defending their position but the more traditional definition of it is someone who takes a needlessly and pointlessly controversial and contrary position for the purposes of riling people up.

Look around, champ. That's not me on this one.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 08, 2014, 01:34:18 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 01:35:42 PM
But that's not a frequent use of "we". It's common for a fan to say "we won the game" to mean the players on the team and it's common for a fan to say "we signed Robidas" to put themselves with the team as a larger entity but I don't think most fans would say "we" when referring to decisions made by ownership that don't really affect the team. If Mike Illitch buys an expensive painting, do you think there are a lot of Red Wings or Tigers fans who would say "Look at all the money we're wasting! That money could be spent on scouts!"

This is MLSE spending their money on something that furthers their interest in the team and, I mean, for someone who's complaining as much about the ticket prices as you are, I really don't understand why you're reacting like this to the idea that MLSE is looking after themselves before you.   

The only time it's necessary to explicitly say that is when some stupid troll is trying to troll.

I appreciate that "troll" has become shorthand for "that person has an opinion I don't like" among the people who have problems defending their position but the more traditional definition of it is someone who takes a needlessly and pointlessly controversial and contrary position for the purposes of riling people up.

Look around, champ. That's not me on this one.


Blah, blah, blah.  Just more nonsense.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 08, 2014, 01:37:53 PM
That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

Especially when you consider that the only tickets that would be available for a deal like this would be those that aren't already owned by season ticket holders.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 01:40:18 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

I agree, but I'm sure there's ways to have a decent level of success with something like this.

Besides, it was just an example of how the money could be better spent.  There's probably tons of different ways to spend that money such as giving kids that come to games something special - maybe autographed pucks, or something.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 08, 2014, 01:51:52 PM
That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

Especially when you consider that the only tickets that would be available for a deal like this would be those that aren't already owned by season ticket holders.

Yeah, I think there's sort of a perception already in the city that actually going to games is sort of the province of the fairly privileged already. The idea that you're going to win over more fans by virtue of giving more stuff to the people in the building one night is pretty facile.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Potvin29 on September 08, 2014, 01:55:21 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

I agree, but I'm sure there's ways to have a decent level of success with something like this.

Besides, it was just an example of how the money could be better spent.  There's probably tons of different ways to spend that money such as giving kids that come to games something special - maybe autographed pucks, or something.

Then someone else will come along and say there's an even BETTER way to spend that money.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Joe S. on September 08, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

It would be nice if the Leafs could do something like Junior Jays days.

Grated I get the skydome takes twice as many people, and there are twice as many games, but it would still be nice if they had some kind of incentive to get the kids to the games a little cheaper.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: bustaheims on September 08, 2014, 01:58:48 PM
Then someone else will come along and say there's an even BETTER way to spend that money.

Almsot all of which require becoming repeated occurrences over multiple seasons to have any lasting impact - so, they represent consistent extra spending. The monument, on the other hand, is a one time spending per statue that should last for as long as the Leafs play in the ACC.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 02:00:12 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

I agree, but I'm sure there's ways to have a decent level of success with something like this.

Besides, it was just an example of how the money could be better spent.  There's probably tons of different ways to spend that money such as giving kids that come to games something special - maybe autographed pucks, or something.

Then someone else will come along and say there's an even BETTER way to spend that money.

Then let them.  What's the problem with that?  All I've said is that I think it's a stupid waste of money.  I don't see how that's a problem.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 08, 2014, 02:04:48 PM
It would be nice if the Leafs could do something like Junior Jays days.

Grated I get the skydome takes twice as many people, and there are twice as many games, but it would still be nice if they had some kind of incentive to get the kids to the games a little cheaper.

As great as that kind of stuff is, I see them more as promotions rather than giveaways. Teams/franchises that do stuff like that do them to put butts in what would have otherwise been empty seats. Then they hope that those people make up the cost by buying things at the concession. The Leafs obviously don't need promotions to do that.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Joe S. on September 08, 2014, 02:07:17 PM
It would be nice if the Leafs could do something like Junior Jays days.

Grated I get the skydome takes twice as many people, and there are twice as many games, but it would still be nice if they had some kind of incentive to get the kids to the games a little cheaper.

As great as that kind of stuff is, I see them more as promotions rather than giveaways. Teams/franchises that do stuff like that do them to put butts in what would have otherwise been empty seats. Then they hope that those people make up the cost by buying things at the concession. The Leafs obviously don't need promotions to do that.

I completely agree... it still would be nice though!

I do believe the Leafs are making a mistake with the kids coming up - this whole culture of die hard leafs fans will start fading away...
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 08, 2014, 02:09:05 PM
It would be nice if the Leafs could do something like Junior Jays days.

Grated I get the skydome takes twice as many people, and there are twice as many games, but it would still be nice if they had some kind of incentive to get the kids to the games a little cheaper.

I think the bigger problem there isn't so much the capacity or just the fact that the Jays actually have to try and sell tickets but really it's just the time of the games. It's virtually impossible for the Leafs to ever have a game during the afternoon and, aside from forgoing HNIC, actually impossible for the Leafs to have afternoon games on a day where kids wouldn't have school the next day.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 08, 2014, 02:12:20 PM
Almsot all of which require becoming repeated occurrences over multiple seasons to have any lasting impact - so, they represent consistent extra spending. The monument, on the other hand, is a one time spending per statue that should last for as long as the Leafs play in the ACC.

Longer even. When I was in grad school I'd get off the Subway at College Station and the paintings on the wall there and even the old facade of the Gardens resonated with me and my memories of games there.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Potvin29 on September 08, 2014, 02:14:54 PM
Except the cost of this could be used to provide a "discount day" for those who don't normally get a chance to go to a game, or something similar.

That'd be a nice idea in theory, but really how effective would it be? Even if you ignore the fact that the ticket prices probably wouldn't drop all that much how do you guarantee that those tickets are going to fans who previously couldn't afford them? They could just as easily be bought by the same group of people that typically go to games but just at a cheaper rate.

I agree, but I'm sure there's ways to have a decent level of success with something like this.

Besides, it was just an example of how the money could be better spent.  There's probably tons of different ways to spend that money such as giving kids that come to games something special - maybe autographed pucks, or something.

Then someone else will come along and say there's an even BETTER way to spend that money.

Then let them.  What's the problem with that?  All I've said is that I think it's a stupid waste of money.  I don't see how that's a problem.

Because I think you're only looking at this at a micro level instead of at a macro level.  What does it matter if you don't like it?  Why do you need to keep debating it - if you don't like it, you don't like it right?  But they can't look at these things at that small of a scale.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 02:29:51 PM
Because I think you're only looking at this at a micro level instead of at a macro level.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of a fan that 1) doesn't live in TO and will probably never even see it in person and 2) someone who isn't old enough to have watched at least several of the players in it.  For me and others of a similar perspective, this monument holds little to no value.

What does it matter if you don't like it?

I don't know that I understand why you're asking this, but I'll try to answer it:

It matters to me.  I never said it should matter to everyone.  I am entitled to my own opinion.

Why do you need to keep debating it - if you don't like it, you don't like it right?

Again, I don't know that I understand why you're asking this.  It seems that you're trying to tell me I'm not allowed to have an opinion or defend/explain it.  People asked why or stated the opposite.  I responded.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Joe S. on September 08, 2014, 02:52:10 PM
It would be nice if the Leafs could do something like Junior Jays days.

Grated I get the skydome takes twice as many people, and there are twice as many games, but it would still be nice if they had some kind of incentive to get the kids to the games a little cheaper.

I think the bigger problem there isn't so much the capacity or just the fact that the Jays actually have to try and sell tickets but really it's just the time of the games. It's virtually impossible for the Leafs to ever have a game during the afternoon and, aside from forgoing HNIC, actually impossible for the Leafs to have afternoon games on a day where kids wouldn't have school the next day.

Absolutely - I was thinking of that as I typed it... the only day it would work is Saturday - and what incentive would there be to alter anything about the most in demand game of the week...

I knew my comments were unrealistic, but I just threw it out there.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: OldTimeHockey on September 08, 2014, 03:22:26 PM
Because I think you're only looking at this at a micro level instead of at a macro level.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of a fan that 1) doesn't live in TO and will probably never even see it in person and 2) someone who isn't old enough to have watched at least several of the players in it.  For me and others of a similar perspective, this monument holds little to no value.



History has no interest to you? Has no value?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: LuncheonMeat on September 08, 2014, 04:55:05 PM
Almsot all of which require becoming repeated occurrences over multiple seasons to have any lasting impact - so, they represent consistent extra spending. The monument, on the other hand, is a one time spending per statue that should last for as long as the Leafs play in the ACC.

Longer even. When I was in grad school I'd get off the Subway at College Station and the paintings on the wall there and even the old facade of the Gardens resonated with me and my memories of games there.

I haven't lived in Ontario since the mid-90s, but wow does that bring back memories.  I used to love waiting for those images to appear in the windows when riding the subway when I was younger.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 08, 2014, 07:09:04 PM
Because I think you're only looking at this at a micro level instead of at a macro level.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of a fan that 1) doesn't live in TO and will probably never even see it in person and 2) someone who isn't old enough to have watched at least several of the players in it.  For me and others of a similar perspective, this monument holds little to no value.



History has no interest to you? Has no value?

Not really, no.  At least, not for hockey - war memorials are different.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Leafs71 on September 08, 2014, 09:16:12 PM
Longer even. When I was in grad school I'd get off the Subway at College Station and the paintings on the wall there and even the old facade of the Gardens resonated with me and my memories of games there.

Same here. The paintings at Carleton bring back memories of watching games at MLG with family. My pickup group rents the  ice once a year (or what's left of it), but I don't get more nostalgic than when I'm at the subway stop.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: freer on September 09, 2014, 08:48:01 AM
Because I think you're only looking at this at a micro level instead of at a macro level.

I'm looking at this from the perspective of a fan that 1) doesn't live in TO and will probably never even see it in person and 2) someone who isn't old enough to have watched at least several of the players in it.  For me and others of a similar perspective, this monument holds little to no value.



History has no interest to you? Has no value?

Not really, no.  At least, not for hockey - war memorials are different.

That your opinion, unlike the majority of folks here. IMO it is nice to see players from the past be honored this way. IMO again this is the teams way of giving the players who built the teams fans base their ever lasting glory. BTW as serving member of the forces, I am glad that you appreciate war memorials and the vets who gave their lives so we can have this debate online!
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Peter D. on September 09, 2014, 10:25:24 AM
Absolutely - I was thinking of that as I typed it... the only day it would work is Saturday - and what incentive would there be to alter anything about the most in demand game of the week...

I knew my comments were unrealistic, but I just threw it out there.

Actually, I think a Junior Jays type idea isn't that far fetched.  Not in the sense of lowered ticket prices, but in creating a bigger buzz in/around/outside the ACC prior to the game.  Right now all there seems to be is a Fan Zone leading up to the arena from Union Station.

I think there is a lot of potential there to be more kid friendly, and generally fan friendly, prior to a Saturday game. 
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 09, 2014, 01:19:49 PM
Avro you are poor in spirit and competely self centred. Time to grow up.
Sorry but I was around in the 60's to see these great players and what the frikk are  you going on about. This has nothing to do with Ticket prices, paying the Pylon 7 Million a year does.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Deebo on September 09, 2014, 01:53:44 PM
This has nothing to do with Ticket prices, paying the Pylon 7 Million a year does.

No it doesn't.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 09, 2014, 03:12:27 PM
I was just kidding, hell we need some hockey as everyone here is getting very uptight. Bring on the rookie tourny for christsakes.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Leafs71 on September 09, 2014, 07:12:34 PM
I was just kidding, hell we need some hockey as everyone here is getting very uptight.

The only person getting uptight and making personal attacks is you.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 09, 2014, 07:54:51 PM
I think there is a lot of potential there to be more kid friendly, and generally fan friendly, prior to a Saturday game.

Maybe, but I don't get the sense that the issue the Leafs are really facing these days is that the people actually going to games aren't having a good enough time, young or old. I think the problem they're facing is one that's sort of beyond their control which is just that more people want to go to games than there are tickets. I really don't even think it's an issue of cost because I can say personally that if I could buy face-value tickets a week or so before a game I'd probably go to a half-dozen games a year.

Right now, to a large number of fans, the Leafs are just a TV show and short of actually improving the team I don't know there's a lot they can do to actually engage the fans they're leaving behind.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 09, 2014, 09:52:30 PM
Avro you are poor in spirit and competely self centred

I'm poor in spirit and self centered because I don't think a monument of previous leaf greats contains any value for me?   ::)

No, I'm neither of those things.  And just because you think so, doesn't make it so, despite what you may think.

Time to grow up.

 ::)

Sorry but I was around in the 60's to see these great players

What's your point?  You're being old and seeing these players doesn't change the fact that I didn't and have a different opinion on the monument than you and others.


and what the frikk are  you going on about. This has nothing to do with Ticket prices, paying the Pylon 7 Million a year does.

At this point, it doesn't surprise me that you can't understand what I've already posted several times.



Good lord.  If you get this upset about someone having a different opinion than you, then I really don't know how you survive the internet.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on September 09, 2014, 11:27:07 PM

I think that if you had said "I don't care for this idea as I don't like statues" or whatever then nobody would have given two figs about your opinion. The problem was that you took your opinion and used it as the basis for a statement that really isn't a matter of opinion, calling the statues "stupid" and "a waste of money". But you haven't made an empirical argument as to why that is despite the fact that you're the only person in this thread who seems to not like the idea. MLSE is spending money on something that a lot of fans like. That's their purpose. That's the result they're aiming for. Whether it's to cynically distract fans from their record or out of the goodness of their hearts as a celebration of the team's history, it seems like they've hit their mark.

If MLSE had bought a pizza for 100 fans and 99 had happily grabbed a slice and one guy in the corner loudly complained about how he didn't like pizza nobody would be disputing the validity of his opinion. If he said that they'd wasted their money on the pizza because he doesn't like pizza, well, that would sort of be the definition of being self-centered. MLSE didn't make this decision with the intent of pleasing you specifically and, as a result, their failure to do so does not reflect on the utility of the money they spent.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: AvroArrow on September 10, 2014, 07:46:07 AM

I think that if you had said "I don't care for this idea as I don't like statues" or whatever then nobody would have given two figs about your opinion. The problem was that you took your opinion and used it as the basis for a statement that really isn't a matter of opinion, calling the statues "stupid" and "a waste of money". But you haven't made an empirical argument as to why that is despite the fact that you're the only person in this thread who seems to not like the idea. MLSE is spending money on something that a lot of fans like. That's their purpose. That's the result they're aiming for. Whether it's to cynically distract fans from their record or out of the goodness of their hearts as a celebration of the team's history, it seems like they've hit their mark.

If MLSE had bought a pizza for 100 fans and 99 had happily grabbed a slice and one guy in the corner loudly complained about how he didn't like pizza nobody would be disputing the validity of his opinion. If he said that they'd wasted their money on the pizza because he doesn't like pizza, well, that would sort of be the definition of being self-centered. MLSE didn't make this decision with the intent of pleasing you specifically and, as a result, their failure to do so does not reflect on the utility of the money they spent.

This just seems like a stupid waste of money that's better spent reducing the cost of tickets, or improving scouting, or whatever else.

If you can't comprehend that this indicates it's my opinion, then you need to go back to school.  Get over it and stop crying about it.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 10, 2014, 07:47:05 AM
I don't like personal attacks and excuse me if it seemed I was making one. Nik has hit the nail on the head much more elequently than me.
Avro, you are not the centre of the universe, only the centre of your own universe
In your rant about this it really seems you are judging everyones elses enjoyment for everyone and future enjoyment of this monument.  Just because you will never see the monument, doesnt mean it doesnt have validity.

Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 10, 2014, 07:49:24 AM
the reason everyone here is challenging you, is your opinion is realy not stated as an opinion.
Your first post about this was an edict or dogma based upon what you want or think, express your opinion but don't lay down edicts.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 10, 2014, 07:52:10 AM
Alright, I think this particular conversation has gone on long enough. Particularly since some are having problems going a full post without resorting to insults.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on September 10, 2014, 04:14:11 PM
What a monumental discussion…I do bow out…sorry if I hurt anyones feelings.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Deebo on September 25, 2014, 03:13:47 PM
I live right by the ACC and walk by Legend's Row on regular basis. There are people of all ages taking pictures with the statues all the time.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 14, 2014, 11:06:44 PM
The Leafs announced that Borje Salming will be the next Leaf to be honoured on Legends Row.   He was, and will always be, one of my favourite Leaf players of all time. Quite simply, one of the greatest Leaf defencemen to ever don the blue and white.

“Salming deserves credit for helping to open the doors in the NHL for many of the European players that followed,” Leafs president Brendan Shanahan said, via press release. “Borje was offensively gifted but he was especially loved by Toronto fans for his toughness and he will make an outstanding addition to Legends Row.”

“Wearing the Toronto Maple Leaf sweater for 16 seasons was a great honour, but to be recognized among some of the top players with a statue on Legends Row, especially with my teammate Darryl Sittler, is something I couldn’t have imagined,” said Salming. “I always look back on my time in Toronto with fondness and enjoy the chance to visit every chance I get. The chance to come back for the statue unveiling next September with my family will be very special.”


For more:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs-borje-salming-legends-row/
.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on November 15, 2014, 10:44:25 AM
If Salming could play at his peak right now for the Leafs, he alone may have been enough to make this team a contender.  He played like a true Viking, my favorite D of all time.
Its great he is honoured this way.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: freer on November 15, 2014, 05:39:36 PM
I honestly found it insulting to Borje that he was not there to begin with. It is very awesome for him. I am really happy.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Deebo on February 21, 2015, 02:46:56 PM
2 more additions will be announced today.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Chev-boyar-sky on February 21, 2015, 02:48:12 PM
2 more additions will be announced today.

Surely it's Franson and Santorelli.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on February 21, 2015, 03:05:14 PM
2 more additions will be announced today.

It'll be a carving of a first round pick and a prospect.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Highlander on February 21, 2015, 03:12:56 PM
Keon and Shack???
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Arn on February 21, 2015, 05:50:19 PM
2 more additions will be announced today.

Surely it's Franson and Santorelli.

McLaren and Orr for definite
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 22, 2015, 10:38:28 AM
The late Syl Apps and George Armstrong.

...said Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan...“Both Syl and George led their respective teams through two different eras of the team’s glory days with Hall of Fame careers and left a lasting legacy for future generations of Maple Leaf players to look up to.”

Armstrong spent his whole NHL career — 21 seasons — with the Maple Leafs, winning four Stanley Cups with the squad during their run in the 1960s, including the Leafs’ last Cup win in 1967.

Apps also spent his entire career with the Leafs, playing 10 seasons with the club and winning three Stanley Cups (1942, 1947, 1948). Apps died in 1998. He was represented at the ceremony by his son.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/)
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Al14 on March 17, 2015, 09:29:44 PM
The late Syl Apps and George Armstrong.

...said Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan...“Both Syl and George led their respective teams through two different eras of the team’s glory days with Hall of Fame careers and left a lasting legacy for future generations of Maple Leaf players to look up to.”

Armstrong spent his whole NHL career — 21 seasons — with the Maple Leafs, winning four Stanley Cups with the squad during their run in the 1960s, including the Leafs’ last Cup win in 1967.

Apps also spent his entire career with the Leafs, playing 10 seasons with the club and winning three Stanley Cups (1942, 1947, 1948). Apps died in 1998. He was represented at the ceremony by his son.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/)

I was hoping for Keon. ;)   However, Apps and Armstrong (as in George ;D) are both good choices!
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: L K on March 18, 2015, 06:04:59 AM
The late Syl Apps and George Armstrong.

...said Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan...“Both Syl and George led their respective teams through two different eras of the team’s glory days with Hall of Fame careers and left a lasting legacy for future generations of Maple Leaf players to look up to.”

Armstrong spent his whole NHL career — 21 seasons — with the Maple Leafs, winning four Stanley Cups with the squad during their run in the 1960s, including the Leafs’ last Cup win in 1967.

Apps also spent his entire career with the Leafs, playing 10 seasons with the club and winning three Stanley Cups (1942, 1947, 1948). Apps died in 1998. He was represented at the ceremony by his son.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/)

I was hoping for Keon. ;)   However, Apps and Armstrong (as in George ;D) are both good choices!

I'm not convinced that we see Keon as one of those players to be honest.  A fantastic player, a guy who certainly got screwed by Ballard but he has been pretty ornery about all things Maple Leafs ever since.  Even his somewhat surprising appearance a few years ago for the Cup anniversary he couldn't even look excited to be there like the other guys and I think he even made a comment or two around the event that it was entirely to be there for his teammates and had little to do with the actual Maple Leafs component.

He also has that stance of refusing to have his number honoured unless it gets retired.  That one actually bugs me because noone else seems to have that problem.  And personally, unless a guy is someone like a Wayne Gretzky I don't really see why a number has to be retired.  If a young player comes in and wants to wear Sundin's 13, let him.  It doesn't diminish Sundin unless the guy ends up being a better career player and then you can't call Sundin the best #13 in Leafs history.

I don't think you get an ok from Keon to put a statue up at this point.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: freer on March 18, 2015, 08:03:50 AM
The late Syl Apps and George Armstrong.

...said Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan...“Both Syl and George led their respective teams through two different eras of the team’s glory days with Hall of Fame careers and left a lasting legacy for future generations of Maple Leaf players to look up to.”

Armstrong spent his whole NHL career — 21 seasons — with the Maple Leafs, winning four Stanley Cups with the squad during their run in the 1960s, including the Leafs’ last Cup win in 1967.

Apps also spent his entire career with the Leafs, playing 10 seasons with the club and winning three Stanley Cups (1942, 1947, 1948). Apps died in 1998. He was represented at the ceremony by his son.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/)

I was hoping for Keon. ;)   However, Apps and Armstrong (as in George ;D) are both good choices!

I'm not convinced that we see Keon as one of those players to be honest.  A fantastic player, a guy who certainly got screwed by Ballard but he has been pretty ornery about all things Maple Leafs ever since.  Even his somewhat surprising appearance a few years ago for the Cup anniversary he couldn't even look excited to be there like the other guys and I think he even made a comment or two around the event that it was entirely to be there for his teammates and had little to do with the actual Maple Leafs component.

He also has that stance of refusing to have his number honoured unless it gets retired.  That one actually bugs me because noone else seems to have that problem.  And personally, unless a guy is someone like a Wayne Gretzky I don't really see why a number has to be retired.  If a young player comes in and wants to wear Sundin's 13, let him.  It doesn't diminish Sundin unless the guy ends up being a better career player and then you can't call Sundin the best #13 in Leafs history.

I don't think you get an ok from Keon to put a statue up at this point.

Why not. He was part of 4 Stanley cup winners. He should be a shoe IN.
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Nik Bethune on March 18, 2015, 08:17:51 AM
He also has that stance of refusing to have his number honoured unless it gets retired.  That one actually bugs me because noone else seems to have that problem.  And personally, unless a guy is someone like a Wayne Gretzky I don't really see why a number has to be retired.

Aren't all honours A) relatively unnecessary and B) typically measured by their exclusivity and permanence?
Title: Re: Players for Monument outside ACC...
Post by: Al14 on March 18, 2015, 07:36:43 PM
The late Syl Apps and George Armstrong.

...said Toronto Maple Leafs President Brendan Shanahan...“Both Syl and George led their respective teams through two different eras of the team’s glory days with Hall of Fame careers and left a lasting legacy for future generations of Maple Leaf players to look up to.”

Armstrong spent his whole NHL career — 21 seasons — with the Maple Leafs, winning four Stanley Cups with the squad during their run in the 1960s, including the Leafs’ last Cup win in 1967.

Apps also spent his entire career with the Leafs, playing 10 seasons with the club and winning three Stanley Cups (1942, 1947, 1948). Apps died in 1998. He was represented at the ceremony by his son.


http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/apps-armstrong-join-leafs-legends-row/)

I was hoping for Keon. ;)   However, Apps and Armstrong (as in George ;D) are both good choices!

I'm not convinced that we see Keon as one of those players to be honest.  A fantastic player, a guy who certainly got screwed by Ballard but he has been pretty ornery about all things Maple Leafs ever since.  Even his somewhat surprising appearance a few years ago for the Cup anniversary he couldn't even look excited to be there like the other guys and I think he even made a comment or two around the event that it was entirely to be there for his teammates and had little to do with the actual Maple Leafs component.

He also has that stance of refusing to have his number honoured unless it gets retired.  That one actually bugs me because noone else seems to have that problem.  And personally, unless a guy is someone like a Wayne Gretzky I don't really see why a number has to be retired.  If a young player comes in and wants to wear Sundin's 13, let him.  It doesn't diminish Sundin unless the guy ends up being a better career player and then you can't call Sundin the best #13 in Leafs history.

I don't think you get an ok from Keon to put a statue up at this point.

Why not. He was part of 4 Stanley cup winners. He should be a shoe IN.

Exactly, Keon must be one honoured with a statue, despite his bitterness!