Jenner-Johansen-Horton Foligno-Anisimov-Gaborik Umberger-Dubinsky-Atkinson Calvert-MacKenzie-Letestu Johnson-Savard Murray-Wisniewski Nikitin-Prout Bobrovsky | JVR-Bozak-Kessel Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson Raymond-Kulemin-Bodie McLaren-McClement-Smith Gunnarsson-Phaneuf Gleason-Rielly Gardiner-Franson Reimer |
Blake Comeau Cody Goloubef Corey Tropp | Paul Ranger Colton Orr |
•Bobrovsky likely starts for Columbus | •Carlyle said that they are considering starting Reimer against Columbus •Holland was sent back down to the Marlies but Bolland ruled himself out of Monday's game •Either Kulemin will play centre again or Smith draws in there and bumps Bodie down |
•Blake Comeau - Knee - Questionable Monday •Fedor Tyutin - Ankle - Injured Reserve •Jared Boll - Ankle - Injured Reserve | •Dave Bolland - Ankle - Out Monday •Colton Orr - Undisclosed - Questionable Monday |
Johansen - 24 Wisniewski - 31 Johansen - 47 Tropp - +11 Dubinsky - 86 Dubinsky - 55.2% Johnson - 24:01 Bobrovsky - 21 Bobrovsky - 2.58 Bobrovsky - .915 | G A P +/- PIM FO% TOI/G W GAA SA% | 33 - Kessel 36 - Kessel 69 - Kessel +21 - Phaneuf 96 - Orr 54.2% - McClement 24:22 - Phaneuf 22 - Bernier 2.63 - Bernier .924 - Bernier |
30 25 5 (20th) 65 (7th) 2.90 (19th) 2.80 (14th) 19.4% (15th) 81.9% (23rd) 28.7 (23rd) 30.7 (10th) 51.4% 13-14-3 4-5-1 Won 1 | W L OT P G/G GA/G PP% PK% S/G SA/G FO% A | H L10 Streak | 32 22 8 72 (12th) 2.84 (9th) 3.02 (26th) 21.4% (4th) 77.5% (28th) 27.6 (25th) 36.1 (30th) 48.3% (24th) 21-10-1 5-2-3 Lost 2 |
@mirtle
Columbus is 12-5-1 in its last 18 games and has more regulation/OT wins and a better goal differential than Leafs. Can't take them lightly.
Quote@mirtle
Columbus is 12-5-1 in its last 18 games and has more regulation/OT wins and a better goal differential than Leafs. Can't take them lightly.
Didn`t realize they had been doing that well recently.
What does taking a game lightly mean?
I just hope they play better than they did in either of the other two games against Columbus this season. They didn't bother showing up for the last one, so, really, there's only room for improvement.
I don't know about anyone else but I hope Kadri shows up. I just haven't seen him play a solid game in a while, I keep hearing he is going to be a top player, I just don't see it. we need a second line that is a threat, and Kadri just has not been giving us that.
jonasTSN1050: Lines vs. CBJ: van Riemsdyk-Bozak-Kessel. Lupul-Kadri-Clarkson. Raymond-Kulemin-Bodie. Smith-McClement.
jonasTSN1050: Defence: Gunnarsson-Phaneuf. Gardiner-Franson. Gleason-Rielly. Ranger. Goaltender: Reimer.
I have nothing against Ranger but it seems to me that if you are going to carry an extra guy, it should be someone who provides a unique skill to the lineup. I'm not sure that Ranger provides that.
Reimer!
Showcasing him ahead of the Wednesday trade?
Clarkson's hysterical.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
I wish that JVR would stop trying that between the legs move beside the net. It is a very low percentage option.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Even the media seems to be giving him a free pass. Remember how awful Grabovski was last year?
Regardless of how bad Clarkson's been the fact remains that he's a local guy who took less money to sign here in the offseason. That's going to buy someone a lot of time.
Regardless of how bad Clarkson's been the fact remains that he's a local guy who took less money to sign here in the offseason. That's going to buy someone a lot of time.
Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Even the media seems to be giving him a free pass. Remember how awful Grabovski was last year?
Grabovski's +/- was brought up so many times. Clarkson's a -5. And has 10 points.
Regardless of how bad Clarkson's been the fact remains that he's a local guy who took less money to sign here in the offseason. That's going to buy someone a lot of time.
Is it really fair to say that he took less to sign here in the offseason, when the team that was offering more was Edmonton?
Aki Berg ,Larry Murphy ,Sergio Momesso etc... Clarkson could make the list for the boo birds.Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
I wish that JVR would stop trying that between the legs move beside the net. It is a very low percentage option.
Probably as good a percentage as any other play from that position. He's had good success with it.
Aki Berg ,Larry Murphy ,Sergio Momesso etc... Clarkson could make the list for the boo birds.Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Regardless of how bad Clarkson's been the fact remains that he's a local guy who took less money to sign here in the offseason. That's going to buy someone a lot of time.
Is it really fair to say that he took less to sign here in the offseason, when the team that was offering more was Edmonton?
Narrative is 9/10th's of the law.
Regardless of how bad Clarkson's been the fact remains that he's a local guy who took less money to sign here in the offseason. That's going to buy someone a lot of time.
Is it really fair to say that he took less to sign here in the offseason, when the team that was offering more was Edmonton?
Narrative is 9/10th's of the law.
Clarkson is also on pace to score fewer goals and put up fewer points than Grabovski did last year...not in terms of pace, just raw numbers.
Clarkson is also on pace to score fewer goals and put up fewer points than Grabovski did last year...not in terms of pace, just raw numbers.
And Clarkson's actually averaging more ES TOI/game and 0:26 seconds less PP TOI/game.
The real shame of it, and I think LK got at it when he mentioned the first PP, is that the kind of player that Clarkson was sold as is exactly the kind of player the team needs. A gritty, physical winger who could stand in front of the net on the second PP unit and knock home ugly goals would be the one thing I'd want the team to look for at the trade deadline if it weren't for the fact that Clarkson will probably keep getting that ice time.
Yes Bryan McCabe was useful but when he did mess up ,it was spectacular ...Now that I think of it Bernier is following in McCabe's foot steps in some ways.Aki Berg ,Larry Murphy ,Sergio Momesso etc... Clarkson could make the list for the boo birds.Clarkson's hysterical.
Let me needlessly hit this guy when Gleason already has him and free up this other man for a potential 2 on 1.
Clarkson is really bad.
Normally with mediocre-to-bad players I just don't care about them (Jonas Hoglund was an example). I actually overtly dislike Clarkson.
It's amazing that he doesn't get treated by the fans at the ACC the way some other players have when they didn't live up to expectations.
Bryan McCabe strikes me as one who was booed despite being far more useful than I can ever imagine Clarkson being.
It's not just the ice-time and trade deadline that concerns me. It's also what we do with Kulemin/Bolland/Raymond in the offseason because of his bloated contract. If Clarkson was remotely the player we were sold on (20+ goals, 40-50 points and hitting everything in sight) he's worth the money, but Troy Bodie is outperforming him for 600K. Imagine what the Leafs could do with 4.5M in cap space to say bring back Komarov on the 4th line, re-sign Kulemin and try and bring in another 2nd pairing defensive defenseman to play with one of Gardiner/Rielly.
The real shame of it, and I think LK got at it when he mentioned the first PP, is that the kind of player that Clarkson was sold as is exactly the kind of player the team needs. A gritty, physical winger who could stand in front of the net on the second PP unit and knock home ugly goals would be the one thing I'd want the team to look for at the trade deadline if it weren't for the fact that Clarkson will probably keep getting that ice time.
It's not just the ice-time and trade deadline that concerns me. It's also what we do with Kulemin/Bolland/Raymond in the offseason because of his bloated contract. If Clarkson was remotely the player we were sold on (20+ goals, 40-50 points and hitting everything in sight) he's worth the money, but Troy Bodie is outperforming him for 600K. Imagine what the Leafs could do with 4.5M in cap space to say bring back Komarov on the 4th line, re-sign Kulemin and try and bring in another 2nd pairing defensive defenseman to play with one of Gardiner/Rielly.
Well, like I sort of get at there the fact that Clarkson hasn't filled the role doesn't really change my mind that he was legitimately brought in here to fill a need. Bodie outperforming him isn't the same thing as Bodie really being the scoring winger with size and grit that I think the Boston series revealed the team needed so even if Clakrson did magically disappear I think the team would still need to look for that and, as we saw this off-season, that guy isn't going to come cheap no matter where he comes from.
I see Reimer hasn't picked up that x-ray vision upgrade yet.
Ranger/Gardiner pairing? No. Just no.
This team has fallen apart in the 2nd. Absolutely no push-back after Columbus scored.
Clarkson is a really bad hockey player.
Aren't they one of the worst 2nd period teams? I swear I saw that stat one game.
EDIT: Maybe it was best?
Ranger/Gardiner pairing? No. Just no.
Why not? So far when Ranger is on the ice the shots on goal are 9-1 in favour of the Leafs, and with Gardiner it is 10-7. The two best D ratio's on the team tonight.
Leafs are being manhandled in 2nd period. Really discouraging.
Ranger/Gardiner pairing? No. Just no.
Why not? So far when Ranger is on the ice the shots on goal are 9-1 in favour of the Leafs, and with Gardiner it is 10-7. The two best D ratio's on the team tonight.
What's their +/-?
Carlyle can teach defensive positioning any game now. Has he had enough games?
Carlyle can teach defensive positioning any game now. Has he had enough games?
Nope. He clearly needs at least 2 more seasons.
We went from being the hottest team before the Olympic break ....TO THIS!..YIKES!
Ranger/Gardiner pairing? No. Just no.
Why not? So far when Ranger is on the ice the shots on goal are 9-1 in favour of the Leafs, and with Gardiner it is 10-7. The two best D ratio's on the team tonight.
What's their +/-?
I don't know, I stick to useful information.
Dfence
Dfence
That's like the definition of a passive defensive structure. Like, over the top passive. That's the exact opposite of how a team built like the Leafs should be playing.
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
Paul Ranger playing behind the offensive net while the Leafs were trying to forecheck and change lines. Makes sense.
Also, that's the 3rd time Columbus has run into Reimer in the blue paint.
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
I was thinking the same. Time to scratch him for a couple and see if that does anything to get him going. Although whiy it would, I have no idea.
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
I was thinking the same. Time to scratch him for a couple and see if that does anything to get him going. Although why it would, I have no idea.
Carlyle can teach defensive positioning any game now. Has he had enough games?
Nope. He clearly needs at least 2 more seasons.
Carlyle can teach defensive positioning any game now. Has he had enough games?
Nope. He clearly needs at least 2 more seasons.
Yeah. Carlyle isn't skating well tonight at all... Let's blame the coach for the lackluster effort of the players. More yelling on the bench Randy!
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
I was thinking the same. Time to scratch him for a couple and see if that does anything to get him going. Although whiy it would, I have no idea.
I really don't see what that would do outside of be the breeding ground for some really specious reasoning. Clarkson isn't the reason other players aren't playing well and while I'm open to the idea that someone else could play better than Clarkson, he's not the only problem we're seeing.
Yeah. Carlyle isn't skating well tonight at all... Let's blame the coach for the lackluster effort of the players. More yelling on the bench Randy!
His ice-time doesn't really indicate it tonight, but I think there is an argument that Lupul-Kadri-Kulemin was playing really well until Clarkson came back and got put back on Kadri's line. Kadri-Clarkson have struggled every time they are paired together.
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
I was thinking the same. Time to scratch him for a couple and see if that does anything to get him going. Although whiy it would, I have no idea.
I really don't see what that would do outside of be the breeding ground for some really specious reasoning. Clarkson isn't the reason other players aren't playing well and while I'm open to the idea that someone else could play better than Clarkson, he's not the only problem we're seeing.
His ice-time doesn't really indicate it tonight, but I think there is an argument that Lupul-Kadri-Kulemin was playing really well until Clarkson came back and got put back on Kadri's line. Kadri-Clarkson have struggled every time they are paired together.
Well, you can fix that by reuniting the line without benching Clarkson.
I wonder if Reimer is going to have to defend himself all night being run..... no one is standing up for him. No one
The leafs play better when he is out of the lineup.
I was thinking the same. Time to scratch him for a couple and see if that does anything to get him going. Although whiy it would, I have no idea.
I really don't see what that would do outside of be the breeding ground for some really specious reasoning. Clarkson isn't the reason other players aren't playing well and while I'm open to the idea that someone else could play better than Clarkson, he's not the only problem we're seeing.
How is it specious reasoning to take somebody who sucks out of the lineup? And frankly he's played farther below expectations than any other player, for longer than any other.
Yeah. Carlyle isn't skating well tonight at all... Let's blame the coach for the lackluster effort of the players. More yelling on the bench Randy!
;DI wonder if Reimer is going to have to defend himself all night being run..... no one is standing up for him. No one
"This is why you CANNOT you CANNOT play without tough guys! You people out there who don't know anything about the game well I know what's really going on and that's why you get that stuff there!"
-- D.S. Cherry, March 8, 2015
How is it specious reasoning to take somebody who sucks out of the lineup? And frankly he's played farther below expectations than any other player, for longer than any other.
I'm saying that if you take Clarkson out of the line-up and the Leafs play a couple games then the idea that Clarkson is somehow making the entire team worse, on that basis, would take hold a little too easily. Like I said, I have no problem benching Clarkson on the basis of Ashton or Holland bringing more to the table than he does right now but not on the "maybe it'll get the rest of the team going" one.
I was saying maybe it would get Clarkson going.
I was saying maybe it would get Clarkson going.
I misread that. Apologies.
I was saying maybe it would get Clarkson going.
I misread that. Apologies.
So, so far tonight the Leafs have:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v189/mccabebabe/facepalms%20and%20reactions/poopdthebed.jpg) ?
Unintentionally apt.
I can't see Nonis moving Clarkson until at least for another season maybe two so we're hooped for that long at
least with this contract.
Phaneuf's skating is becoming a legitimate problem.
Yeah. Carlyle isn't skating well tonight at all... Let's blame the coach for the lackluster effort of the players. More yelling on the bench Randy!
So, the fact that the team has basically played the same way for all 63 games this season and that every line is making the same type of mistakes and playing the same style has nothing to do with the coach? Good to know. This isn't an issue people only started raising tonight. This is something we've been discussing all season.
I can't see Nonis moving Clarkson until at least for another season maybe two so we're hooped for that long at
least with this contract.
The only way Nonis moves Clarkson is in the trunk of his Cadillac lol ;D
Not sure why Carlyle isn't moving Smith up here and going with Lupul-Kadri-Kulemin and Raymond-Smith-Clarkson. We all know Kulemin is more effective on the 2nd line, and Smith's best stretch of the season came with Clarkson on his wing.
Phaneuf's skating is becoming a legitimate problem.
I wonder if he took things a tad too easy during the Olympic break. I missed the Islanders game, but tonight and Saturday night have probably been two of the worst games I've seen him play consecutively.
Clarkson checked by the ref, lands right on his back. Funny stuff.
Like Nik just said, they played well enough in the 1st period, and have played well for many stretches this season. It's inconsistency. I don't agree with a lot of Carlyle's decisions, but I don't blame him for individuals having brain farts. Some of these pop up over and over with the same players (ie Franson) Others are from rookies learning the game. And effort, or lack of it, is squarely on the players shoulders. Period.
Clarkson fell. Everybody drink!
Clarkson fell. Everybody drink!
It could not be any worse then Kadri. I hope they trade him
Phaneuf's skating is becoming a legitimate problem.
I wonder if he took things a tad too easy during the Olympic break. I missed the Islanders game, but tonight and Saturday night have probably been two of the worst games I've seen him play consecutively.
I mean, if he's not effectively defensively he's really not bringing anything to the table. A night like tonight where he's genuinely bad and it's a real issue for the team.
Clarkson fell. Everybody drink!
It could not be any worse then Kadri. I hope they trade him
It couldn't be any worse than the player heavily outscoring Clarkson at a far greater value? Right.
But, we're not just talking about individual brain farts. We're talking team-wide issues. There's absolutely no reason all 5 skaters should be within 5 feet of their own net so frequently. There are constant issues with breakouts, zone entries, puck support, etc. None of these have anything to do with effort. As for the stretches of overall good play, they've been short and isolated. Even when the Leafs were winning, they were playing poorly defensively. The fact that the puck was going in for them really helped mask that for a lot of people. Playing well for one period of the game doesn't change a thing. In fact, that it's so easy for other teams to turn the table on the Leafs after a good period on such a regular basis is a coaching issue. The Leafs system is way too easy to take advantage of when the top line isn't producing.
But, we're not just talking about individual brain farts. We're talking team-wide issues. There's absolutely no reason all 5 skaters should be within 5 feet of their own net so frequently. There are constant issues with breakouts, zone entries, puck support, etc. None of these have anything to do with effort. As for the stretches of overall good play, they've been short and isolated. Even when the Leafs were winning, they were playing poorly defensively. The fact that the puck was going in for them really helped mask that for a lot of people. Playing well for one period of the game doesn't change a thing. In fact, that it's so easy for other teams to turn the table on the Leafs after a good period on such a regular basis is a coaching issue. The Leafs system is way too easy to take advantage of when the top line isn't producing.
I think the thing though is that it's not an either/or thing. There are things I don't like about Carlyle's coaching but just now Millen said, correctly, that the Leafs aren't winning any individual battles and, I mean, there's just nothing that Carlyle can do about that. Like it or not, that's a huge part of why this team stumbles for stretches. The difference between what the Kessel line did in the 1st and since? That's not because they were coached differently or used differently.
Like Nik just said, they played well enough in the 1st period, and have played well for many stretches this season. It's inconsistency. I don't agree with a lot of Carlyle's decisions, but I don't blame him for individuals having brain farts. Some of these pop up over and over with the same players (ie Franson) Others are from rookies learning the game. And effort, or lack of it, is squarely on the players shoulders. Period.
But, we're not just talking about individual brain farts. We're talking team-wide issues. There's absolutely no reason all 5 skaters should be within 5 feet of their own net so frequently. There are constant issues with breakouts, zone entries, puck support, etc. None of these have anything to do with effort. As for the stretches of overall good play, they've been short and isolated. Even when the Leafs were winning, they were playing poorly defensively. The fact that the puck was going in for them really helped mask that for a lot of people. Playing well for one period of the game doesn't change a thing. In fact, that it's so easy for other teams to turn the table on the Leafs after a good period on such a regular basis is a coaching issue. The Leafs system is way too easy to take advantage of when the top line isn't producing.
Like Nik just said, they played well enough in the 1st period, and have played well for many stretches this season. It's inconsistency. I don't agree with a lot of Carlyle's decisions, but I don't blame him for individuals having brain farts. Some of these pop up over and over with the same players (ie Franson) Others are from rookies learning the game. And effort, or lack of it, is squarely on the players shoulders. Period.
But, we're not just talking about individual brain farts. We're talking team-wide issues. There's absolutely no reason all 5 skaters should be within 5 feet of their own net so frequently. There are constant issues with breakouts, zone entries, puck support, etc. None of these have anything to do with effort. As for the stretches of overall good play, they've been short and isolated. Even when the Leafs were winning, they were playing poorly defensively. The fact that the puck was going in for them really helped mask that for a lot of people. Playing well for one period of the game doesn't change a thing. In fact, that it's so easy for other teams to turn the table on the Leafs after a good period on such a regular basis is a coaching issue. The Leafs system is way too easy to take advantage of when the top line isn't producing.
I think the thing though is that it's not an either/or thing. There are things I don't like about Carlyle's coaching but just now Millen said, correctly, that the Leafs aren't winning any individual battles and, I mean, there's just nothing that Carlyle can do about that. Like it or not, that's a huge part of why this team stumbles for stretches. The difference between what the Kessel line did in the 1st and since? That's not because they were coached differently or used differently.
Clarkson fell. Everybody drink!
You've just isolated their number one problem here. The core of this teams defense is either too inexperienced, or too offensive minded.
You've just isolated their number one problem here. The core of this teams defense is either too inexperienced, or too offensive minded.
Defence is, and always has been, a team thing, not a defenceman thing. The biggest defensive issue with the team is the system they play, not the guys on the blue line who are part of it. Adding a defensive defenceman or a more experienced player or two isn't going to have a material impact on that. They're not going to suddenly start playing a different system than the one their coach has been deploying them in all season.
Gotta put Clarkson out after the goal of course.
Good. We deserved to lose.
As for the Kessel line . . . outside of not being able to put the puck in the net, they've been pretty good most of the night and have created almost all of the Leafs scoring chances. I have no issues with them. They can't do it all, though, and they're all too frequently being relied on to do just that.
Well, at least Reimer was pretty good.
It's hard to argue with that. The only thing I can counter with is a lack of accountability? I mean, if the team is continually not working hard, eventually that just becomes an acceptable part of the team culture. If Phaneuf isn't going to stand up in the dressing room and do something about it, then the coach should.
You've just isolated their number one problem here. The core of this teams defense is either too inexperienced, or too offensive minded.
Defence is, and always has been, a team thing, not a defenceman thing. The biggest defensive issue with the team is the system they play, not the guys on the blue line who are part of it. Adding a defensive defenceman or a more experienced player or two isn't going to have a material impact on that. They're not going to suddenly start playing a different system than the one their coach has been deploying them in all season.
It's hard to argue with that. The only thing I can counter with is a lack of accountability? I mean, if the team is continually not working hard, eventually that just becomes an acceptable part of the team culture. If Phaneuf isn't going to stand up in the dressing room and do something about it, then the coach should.
Short of being a convenient go-to buzzword, I'm not sure what "accountability" ultimately means. Yelling at them? I'm sure Carlyle has done that ad nauseum. Benching them? Who? I don't know what you do really.
Well, at least Reimer was pretty good.
It's a shame that this lousy effort by the team might mask that, really, Reimer should be getting more of a look down the stretch.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Torino doesn't really help that argument. It's a combination.
That's why I said 'mostly'. But I also think the Torino team was defensively weaker as a unit. I mean, Bryan McCabe made that team.... ;)
That's why I said 'mostly'. But I also think the Torino team was defensively weaker as a unit. I mean, Bryan McCabe made that team.... ;)
Who I'd take defensively over PK Subban. It was a really good defensive unit.
Anyways, I think the point remains that it's a combination and I think it's fair to say that Carlyle is doing some things defensively that aren't helping the team. I absolutely agree that he doesn't have much to work with but he's still a part of the problem.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Edit: show me a team full of good two way players and I'll show you a good coach. That seldom works the other way around.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Edit: show me a team full of good two way players and I'll show you a good coach. That seldom works the other way around.
Yes. The Leafs aren't Team Canada. We all know that. But, at the same time, if you don't believe that coaching had influence on the outcome of the Olympics, then I don't know what to say to you.
A good coach can make a team look much better defensively than the talent on the roster would imply that they would be. While the Leafs may not be brimming with defensive superstars, they are, as a group, talented enough as players to be a reasonable defensive group if they're deployed probably and taught a system that maximizes their strength. Right now, neither of those things are happening.
Unless you're talking about playing a trap game, I don't agree. This team has too many offense-first players. We've been through this, you and me, many times. You know where I stand on this. I'd trade 3-4 offense-first players on this team for two-way guys (add a few defensive D-men), and we get that much closer to the team you think we should be seeing now. That's the only way it happens.
Unless you're talking about playing a trap game, I don't agree. This team has too many offense-first players. We've been through this, you and me, many times. You know where I stand on this. I'd trade 3-4 offense-first players on this team for two-way guys (add a few defensive D-men), and we get that much closer to the team you think we should be seeing now. That's the only way it happens.
All trading offensive players for defensive players is going to do to this team is turn them from a team that gets inconsistent secondary scoring to a team that gets no secondary scoring. Without changing the way they play defence, they're not going to improve defensively. The type of talent on the roster isn't going to matter until that happens.
Although with all that said I think it's worth mentioning that the team allowed 33 shots and only 2 goals and we're talking about tonight as a failure of the defence.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Edit: show me a team full of good two way players and I'll show you a good coach. That seldom works the other way around.
Yes. The Leafs aren't Team Canada. We all know that. But, at the same time, if you don't believe that coaching had influence on the outcome of the Olympics, then I don't know what to say to you.
A good coach can make a team look much better defensively than the talent on the roster would imply that they would be. While the Leafs may not be brimming with defensive superstars, they are, as a group, talented enough as players to be a reasonable defensive group if they're deployed probably and taught a system that maximizes their strength. Right now, neither of those things are happening.
Unless you're talking about playing a trap game, I don't agree. This team has too many offense-first players. We've been through this, you and me, many times. You know where I stand on this. I'd trade 3-4 offense-first players on this team for two-way guys (add a few defensive D-men), and we get that much closer to the team you think we should be seeing now. That's the only way it happens.
This game could've been a two or three goal lead in the first period. They didn't play great, but they weren't bad. That was, I believe, what they refer to as "puck luck."
Still, insanely sloppy play defensively. Turnovers are ridiculous and I'm not sure how they're going to fix it.
You've just isolated their number one problem here. The core of this teams defense is either too inexperienced, or too offensive minded.
Defence is, and always has been, a team thing, not a defenceman thing. The biggest defensive issue with the team is the system they play, not the guys on the blue line who are part of it. Adding a defensive defenceman or a more experienced player or two isn't going to have a material impact on that. They're not going to suddenly start playing a different system than the one their coach has been deploying them in all season.
Completely agree with the bolded part. But, team defence comes mostly from the players who can play that way, not what the coach shows them. Team Canada could have had a monkey coaching at the Olympics and they still would have won the gold, based almost entirely on their defensive play. That was the players, not the coaching.
Edit: show me a team full of good two way players and I'll show you a good coach. That seldom works the other way around.
they have been trying all year to play better defensively and it isn't working. Maybe they should try the opposite and play all offensive run and gun style. Try to score so many goals that they will win despite poor defense.