Author Topic: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590  (Read 2734 times)

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Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #225 on: April 18, 2021, 10:25:58 PM »

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #226 on: April 18, 2021, 10:27:38 PM »
I think something that's really unfortunate is that because some posters criticisms are so misguided and repetitive and quite frankly wrongheaded a lot of the post-game discussion now just revolves around that as opposed to more substantive discussions.

Contrary to some things that have been said I have lots of concerns with the Leafs. I don't think they match up well with the Washingtons, Tampas or Floridas. But it has nothing to do with rehashed yammering about grit or toughness that would have embarrassed Don Cherry as being simple minded but rather that I think the Leafs are fairly deficient in some key areas and it will render their chances in the playoffs a crapshoot.

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.

I suspect my view of the team is pretty common so it's a little frustrating to see people try to paint this as people who are positive about the team vs. those who are negative about it. None of us, I'm fairly certain, think the team is a Tampa-like juggernaut with no real weaknesses, the issue is what those issues are, how they can be realistically addressed and whether or not the discussion here should be dominated by the same old rote, useless complaints made loudly and obnoxiously game after game after game.
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Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #227 on: April 18, 2021, 10:28:52 PM »


Really. Been a diehard since the early 70's late 60's. You don't know me buddy it's just the facts. All some do on here is look at stats and think everything is rosy. Little do you guys know. Some should apply for a position with Leafs organization because you'd fit right in. Team has some flaws that seem to get neglected and until then is going nowhere. There's talent which you need, character and grit. I'll give them the first that's it.

Yeah but when they lose you jump all over them...and when they win you’re it’s always “Yeah sure they won BUT....(laundry list of things you didn’t like)”

I get it though...I guess if you been a fan for that long you have the right to be jaded.

I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.

Whats frustrating with this team and I'll say it it's not a lot is the same stuff we see happening that's costing us games and Im not going to go into detail and that's on the coaches to. Something aint working change it and hopefully the results are better. Babcock used to irritate me with his favouritism and dumb decisions. Keefe is starting to do the same.

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #228 on: April 18, 2021, 10:29:21 PM »
Sports are like the reward of a functioning society
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Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #229 on: April 18, 2021, 10:30:49 PM »
You want my take on this team.

No.

Have a good night Nik missed you.

Online Bill_Berg_is_sad

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #230 on: April 18, 2021, 10:41:28 PM »
I think something that's really unfortunate is that because some posters criticisms are so misguided and repetitive and quite frankly wrongheaded a lot of the post-game discussion now just revolves around that as opposed to more substantive discussions.

Contrary to some things that have been said I have lots of concerns with the Leafs. I don't think they match up well with the Washingtons, Tampas or Floridas. But it has nothing to do with rehashed yammering about grit or toughness that would have embarrassed Don Cherry as being simple minded but rather that I think the Leafs are fairly deficient in some key areas and it will render their chances in the playoffs a crapshoot.

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.

I suspect my view of the team is pretty common so it's a little frustrating to see people try to paint this as people who are positive about the team vs. those who are negative about it. None of us, I'm fairly certain, think the team is a Tampa-like juggernaut with no real weaknesses, the issue is what those issues are, how they can be realistically addressed and whether or not the discussion here should be dominated by the same old rote, useless complaints made loudly and obnoxiously game after game after game.

Ya the goaltending has me worried. The only new takeaway I have from this game is another worry: Hyman.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #231 on: April 18, 2021, 10:52:15 PM »
I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Online Guilt Trip

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #232 on: April 18, 2021, 10:55:21 PM »
Rittich may turn out to be Dubas' best move at the deadline.

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #233 on: April 18, 2021, 11:32:11 PM »
I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I’d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #234 on: April 18, 2021, 11:36:50 PM »

I mean, to start with, I don't have faith in their goaltending. I enjoyed Campbell's run as much as anyone but we can already see him coming down to Earth and behind him is, well, other issues. Goaltending is a big deal. It's also way more volatile than it was back in my early days as a hockey fan where certain guys would just have great seasons year after year. So outside of a few lucky clubs with elite goaltenders all teams are in more or less the same situation there.

What that means is that the goaltending issue is a complex one. There is no easy fix. It can't be solved by trading one of the more offensively gifted players on the team for someone who looks like they're trying harder. Accordingly, that makes it out of the reach for some of the team's more vocal critics.


I came back in to post something very like this but Nik you've said it perfectly.  The goaltending is suspect, no matter whether it's 31 or 36 (and probably 33).  I feel that Andersen's experience as a starter probably gives the team the best shot but he hasn't gotten it done in the playoffs and I can see them getting bounced again in R1 if he (or Campbell, or Rittich) has a leaky series.

The other concern I have is their ability to take over games and simply not let the opponents in it.  I do think that an indicator of playoff success is not just how many wins you have, but how many times you dominate other teams.  I suppose somebody has run the stats on whether playoff success is correlated with how many times a team wins by, say, 3 or more goals during the regular season, or how many times they win by 2 or more and hold the opponent to only X SOG or high-danger chances or what have you.  Maybe I'm totally wrong here, but my intuition is that there is a correlation.

In any case a recurring MO with the Leafs is not winning games they are "supposed" to win.  They don't seem to have what it takes to take a weakened or lesser opponent and just put them out of the game early.

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #235 on: April 18, 2021, 11:46:49 PM »
I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I’d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

Where did I say that talent alone wins a cup?

Your views on the role of hitting and fighting and retribution are outdated. This isn't my view because of some notion that I don't like physical play, it's because the speed of the game and overall skill has increased significantly.

Online Deebo

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #236 on: April 19, 2021, 12:37:37 AM »
We stink dudes

This team is laughable.

All you positive guys on here who never have anything bad to say about this team. Let's have it. I'm sure we'll hear it. Leafs had some good chances, we outshot them, deserved better blah blah blah blah. Oh let's not forget but we are in 1st place.  Bottom line is this team needs an overhaul. Get some players on here who actually give a rats ass because every year it's the same thing. Coaching needs to be called out to.

Maybe if you actually read what people have to say, you would see that there is plenty of cristicism of the team. Just because people don't angrily repeat themselves after every game win or lose, doesn't meant there isn't criticism and just because people don't think the answer to everything just hitting someone or trying harder, doesn't mean they think everything is great.

There is something inbetween the suckiest sucks that every sucked and everything is great. That's where most of us are.

Offline azzurri63

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #237 on: April 19, 2021, 01:33:10 AM »
I call it like it is. Like I mentioned the other day. I don't just look at wins I look at how you're playing and if it's deserving. No different in Freddies earlier years when we were getting outshot and facing 40 shots a night but still winning. To me that's not a sign of a great team. Leafs are better now and I praise them when they do play well. Maybe I'm just too hard on them and expect it every night.
...

No. You call as you see it. And how you see it is out-dated.

Outdated ok my friend. Why because I’d like a balanced team one that in the end come playoff time is what you need. If you think talent and talent alone wins you a cup good luck with that.

Where did I say that talent alone wins a cup?

Your views on the role of hitting and fighting and retribution are outdated. This isn't my view because of some notion that I don't like physical play, it's because the speed of the game and overall skill has increased significantly.

I think some of you misinterpret my views of the above. I understand the game has changed I’m fine with that. My point is that it’s still part of the game it hasn’t gone away completely. Do I say we need a Colton Orr on the ice every 4 th shift smashing someone’s face. No. Hitting last I looked hasn’t been taken away either. The team is soft no doubt about it. I’ve said it numerous times there are times we can take the body and when I say that I don’t mean putting someone through the boards. It’s taking the body to stop an opponent, end the play, to cause losing puck possession etc. A lot of this team don’t do that and what it leads to is extended plays and at times goals in our net. The game has gotten faster for sure but the elements of the games you mentioned have not been totally eliminated.

We have a lot of skill on this team and I’m happy for it. Skill alone does not win cups. You need that balance and that’s all I’m saying.

Offline Nik

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #238 on: April 19, 2021, 02:08:53 AM »
We have a lot of skill on this team and I’m happy for it. Skill alone does not win cups. You need that balance and that’s all I’m saying.

So the team added Bogosian and Brodie and Simmonds and now Hutton and Foligno and they already had Hyman and Muzzin and on and on. The team is and always has been more than just their scorers. Your criticisms of the team has never actually reflected the people they put on the ice and you just whine endlessly about the fact that some of the skilled players on the team aren't as tough as you'd like them to be. It's boring and repetitive on top of not being even vaguely insightful or meaningful analysis. You just vomit out the same word garbage regardless of the situation.
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Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Leafs @ Canucks - Apr. 18th, 7:00pm - SN, Fan 590
« Reply #239 on: April 19, 2021, 07:43:21 AM »
Toronto deserved a better fate last night. I wouldn't call it their best effort of the season, but it also wasn't horrible.

I found them a little too pretty in the first period. I do believe they bought into the notion that they were going to walk all over Vancouver because of Covid. The last thing you want is to take the night off against a team that has something to play for. That being said, I don't think the Leafs necessarily did. They outshot Vancouver by quite a large margin. Holtby was fantastic and his posts and cross bars were even better. Also, there's no way in he!! that the puck was not in the net with 19 seconds left. I get why they didn't overturn the call on the ice, but the ref made no effort to get in where Marner was clearly pointing at the puck.

On the Campbell front, he certainly is returning to his actual level of play, though I don't think he was playing lights out when he was winning everything. The goal in OT cannot go in. I apologize, but if Andersen is healthy, Andersen goes in. He is the better goalie.